Guild Wars 2

Sardoni.8361:

OK. What determines how much a clone can crit? Is it my own crit rate?

If clones/phantasms are not pets (like some people insist) do they mirror my stats? We know they do not mirror my own vitality… so I’m curious now.

To the best of my knowledge, they mimic all stats except Vitality and possibly Toughness. Chances are they mimic them, too, but have different multipliers applied to them (so they scale with those stats, but don’t use them explicitly). More specific to what you asked, they DO use your current crit rate, so if you have 50% crit chance, so do they (and Phantasms with Phantasmal Fury have 70%)

Sardoni.8361:

EsLafiel.4517:

I have a trait, that makes my clones do bleeding damage to enemies and so they do pretty good damage with me, plus I use sword. So they do bleeding and vul to enemies and cripple them when there killed. In all my clones are awesome.

Sword/Focus for the win

It’s bleed when they crit if I’m not mistaken. So when they crit for zero they apply a bleed -.- Honestly, that specifically is a leftover trait from when clones (not phantasms) used to do damage.

I am pretty sure it is less “leftover” and is entirely intentional so that the clones that don’t have their own condition they apply. Sword-clone does Vulnerability, Staff-clone does random. The other 2 MH Weapons, Greatsword and Scepter, also produce the greatest number of attacks (Greatsword via 3-hit channel, Scepter through clone-spam) which works great for maintaining Bleeding stacks.

They are intended to do no damage. They are meant to:

a) Grab aggro from PvE mobs
b) Divert an attack or 2 in sPvP (either from being distracted, or getting in the way of projectiles etc.)
c) Be annoying in WvWvW (so frantic LOTS of people will waste time on clones thinking someone is just being stupid-aggressive)
d) Be used for Shatters (which if you are currently just letting your clones die, you should try Shattering more often unless you are maintaining multiple Phantasms and don’t need the spike/utility at the time)

EDIT: As said above, they removed the damage for balance reasons. They were patently ridiculous when they did any sort of half-way decent damage.

EasymodeX.4062:

It’s mostly gone on guru, but with the opening of this forum, a lot of people have come in with that misunderstanding. I think it’s passing, but it’s still funny.

Especially the 10,000 damage arc lightnings.

Sidenote: there was a guy on the Warr forums who thought the last hit of 100b was doing 8k damage.

Warrior OP.

EasymodeX.4062:

But iDuelist does 15,000 damage man, nothing can compare!

Are people still not noticing that the number that pops up is clearly a tally of total damage and not separate damage numbers?

GalloGSM.8139:

EasymodeX.4062:

Oh yes, let’s start wasting utility slots because we can’t manage our existing abilities to use what’s free on F1-F4.

They wouldn’t give it to us on our utility if that was the case!

Or they give it to us as redundancy to help with the (currently non-utilized/underperforming) “interruption” build that Domination line hints at. Or because some people just want “more” interrupts.

EasymodeX.4062:

If you’re fighting tougher mobs, your phantasms will die in 1-2 hits, so you will not get 3 up in any case. Lulz.

I keep forgetting they are saying 3 Phantasms instead of 2 and a clone. I don’t understand everyone’s desire to always have 3. Having 2 and clone is infinitely more useful as it doesn’t lock you out of one of your skills on every weapon set and gives you a disposable tank.

Hocofaisan.2593:

I run a balanced shatter/phantasm spec, and I always wanted to add the disenchanted to my arsenal for those pesky boss fights that require condition/Boon management.

But it’s quite impossible to keep it alive due to the fact that it spawn directly in melee range of its target.

Is this a flaw with the phantasm? Or is it intended to balance out, it’s boon stripping/condition removal utility?

Right now it’s just impossible to use effectively…

No one can be 100% sure of ANet’s intention with the skill, but I doubt it is intended. Most people come to the same conclusion as you about it’s survivability (it doesn’t.)

While I agree with the general assessments (Use both Phantasms and Shatters as situation dictates. Mesmers are “busy” so don’t expect to just AA everything) I don’t think we need Yet Another Shatter Thread. It’s been (and is being) talked to death already in more than a few threads.

Thalzion.1378:

I don’t like the mesmer (at least the starting) masks.

The tailored “Acolyte” masks are pretty good.

GalloGSM.8139:

snip
Shattering a big source of your damage to daze a mob as it’s about to use a big ability in the middle of a long fight makes no sense because you’re basically resetting your damage output.

This is a judgement call. How “big” is the big ability you are interrupting? Could it wipe the party? Could it prevent someone from rezzing a teammate in time? Is the ability going off going to make the fight harder in the long run? Could the attack devastate your party with conditions that you’d then have to spend DPS time on removing? Are your Phantasms going to possibly die by being in the line of fire anyway?

I would gladly sacrifice a few seconds of DPS damage that I can then resummon on a low CD in any of those situations. And that is just Diversion. That doesn’t count Mind Wrack (being swarmed by trash mobs and desperately need to get their HP down NOW? Need to finish off a mob before it heals? Phantasm just do a long-cool down attack and you need to start bursting?), Cry of Frustration (is the enemy about to go into “spam attack” mode? If so, this can possibly end up doing just as much, if not MORE damage than the Phantasms to a GROUP) and Distortion (usually of the “if I don’t use it I will die” variety)

TL;DR: Shatters are context sensitive. Assuming 3 Phantasms > Any Shatter in every situation is naive.

Depends what you are fighting. Most of the time, when you are doing basic PvE you will be fighting mobs that will go down before you could ever summon your third Phantasm. In that case you still Mind Wrack, just when you think it’ll finish off the mob or you know that it’ll die before the Phantasm gets another attack in (their attack animation is fairly slow).

If you are fighting tougher mobs that will stand up to a few hits, 3 Phantasms is good. I still use Shatters on tough bosses, especially ones that telegraph attacks by using either Diversion (if they aren’t immune to it) or Distortion (might as well not take damage from it). Alternatively, if it looks like the Phantasm is about to die, there is no reason NOT to Mind Wrack it.

If you are going for Shatters, it lends itself to clearing out weaker mobs more as the damage is AoE. I’d advise on using Scepter as it is the “clone factory” weapon. That also lends you to Condition Damage which would also give you your out vs. tougher mobs/bosses or enemies with a lot of AoE.

Even in Shatter spec, you are still going to summon Phantasms but after they use an attack or 2, they are considered more disposable. This lends itself to Phantasms with high burst and high CD. This means iWarlock, iSwordsman. iDuelist and iWarden have longer “chain” attacks which would get cut short if you need to Shatter.

TL;DR: It’s not strictly black and white, but they do lend themselves to different playstyles. Pick which work for you.

I want to see the buffs on GS tonight. It’s one of my favourite weapons but I always felt handicapped by the poor responsiveness of autos and Mind Stab (I basically used it for Mirror Blade and Berserker)

Nretep.2564:

Well, that’s what the red bars below the skills are. If you see a red bar below Illusionary Leap, don’t use the skill. Move towards the target and activate the skill as soon as the red disappears.

Yet, they could make it 900 … since it IS a gap closer … melee needs this.

Also, the basic formula for 1H Sword is: Attack, Gap Closer, Flavour (not necessarily in that order). I understand that gap closer + snare is powerful (especially in conjunction with Blurred Frenzy), but even a small increase in range would help. 700-800 even would feel much better.

Vmax.9410:

Additionally trying to use this ability on players that are moving ends with the immobilize effect not working the majority of the time, along with the clone being unable to keep up with a target you can swap positions and end up being further away from your target then you originally were.

I think the Sword clone stands in place until it finishes it’s 3 hit combo, then walks up to them again as opposed to walking with them and attacking. This is the reason it doesn’t keep up. Seems like they should be able to fix that.

In the early levels, all I would suggest is to try each weapon set, get used to swapping between them while clearing different types of content, and see how each feels. Optimization counts for something, right up until you can’t stand to use one of the weapon sets. Personally, I go through phases. I went through the:

- Scepter starting weapon + Torch OP! phase
- MH Sword deals + Pistol SO MCUH DMG! phase
- Staff conditions are SO GUD! phase
- Sword+Focus is SO FUN! phase
- Greatsword BEST INT HE WORLD! phase
- Sword/Sword offense AND defense!!!!!11 phase

After all that, my current preference is Greatsword + Sword/Focus for the AOE DAMAGE OPPPPPPP. Once you know your weapons, it will inform your traits and build decisions.

Quick cheat sheet:
Power Single Target – MH/OH Sword, Pistol OH
Condition Single Target – Scepter MH, Torch OH
Power Multi-Target – Greatsword
Condition Multi-Target – Staff

Most advise taking a 2-hander for AOE and something for single target. This doesn’t mean “power is GS + Sword/Pistol” as one of the better all-around builds was considered Staff + Sword/Pistol (as Staff Phantasm is power-based while still relying on conditions…read the tooltips to get an idea of what works with what).

Nkrisc.7408:

ZoiN.4280:

Swordbreaker.2581:

Mesmer’s can be difficult to solo groups of mobs, but certainly not impossible. I use sword/pistol and greatsword. When getting a group of mobs on me, I try to line them up and use skills that damage in a straight line like Mirror Blade and phantasmal berserker which will also hit multiple enemies, and then you can use the illusionary wave to knock them all back. Then I switch to sword/pistol and use magic bullet to stun all of them and get up close and slash all of them with blurred frenzy, jump back and pick a target with the most health and put Phantasmal Duelist on him. Then I jump back, and switch back to greatsword, push them back and rinse and repeat. With ranged attacking in a group of melee, you can either moa bird them, and when they recover from that, you can also use feedback to reflect their projectiles back at them. You will have to also make sure to roll away when either of those are on cooldown and a projectile is fired at you, or if magic is fired at you, because feedback doesn’t effect magic.

Also when you get elite skills at 30 you can easily use the Series 7 robot to attack instead of using the moa morph to dish out damage to them for 40 seconds which is really handy solo. Make sure to put points into domination for bleeds and use any debuff shields you may have like the radiation field, I don’t remember its exact name.

I prefer to only take on 2 or 3 at a time if I can, and don’t grind by killing, but grind events and hearts.

Some of the elites you listed here are Asura specific and not mesmer specific.

Not mention Trick Shot doesn’t " stun all of them," it dazes the first target, then applies a confuse to one, and blind to the other (don’t remember the order of the last two conditions).

It stuns the first, dazes the second and blinds the third, if I’m not mistaken.

EasymodeX.4062:

Mimic does more than copy a single ranged attack.

Everyone in this thread that cites Mimic had better actually use the skill a bit before commenting and not merely look at the tooltip.

I say “1 auto attack” more to mean that it reflects a minimal amount of attacks. That should have been more clear in my post, however. Thanks for the reminder of that.

EasymodeX.4062:

Dodge/reflect the phantasm. Throw a random attack at the paper phantasm to kill it while focusing the Mesmer.

Zzz.

Not as easy as it sounds. While you are trying to harass Phantasms (it will take more than 1 attack unless you are specced VERY heavily glass cannon or blow a CD on it usually, from my experience) the Mesmer is free to do what he wants. Maybe he’ll interrupt you trying to kill his Phantasm. Maybe he’ll summon another one, maybe he’ll Illusionary Leap + Swap + Blurred Frenzy when you get close (assuming in melee) so the Phantasm can do whatever it wants while you take some DPS. Maybe the Mesmer will run away.

You could also kill him, if he let’s you I guess.

Thedenofsin.7340:

It definitely breaks things. The best fix, in my opinion, is to have the mark automatically apply to each clone.

This would have a lot of technical difficulties (when someone assists, who does the target go to? Does it actually make any sense that a GS clone from Mirror Blade would get it when you know forkittencertain it can’t be the Mesmer?) I don’t think it’s necessary as stated but I believe anything meant to “replace” the Mesmer (the skills I said above, +1 I forgot to mention: Mirror Images) should REMOVE the Mark and force them to find them again.

sPvP
Best:
1) Blurred Frenzy – Invulnerability, high damage, low CD. Not much to say here.
2) iDuelist – it stands back and fires, keeping it safe most of the time. Does a good bit of damage, especially with Sharper Images.
3) Null Field – This turns the tides of a team fight immensely. Not in my WvWvW top-3 because the radius feels a lot smaller in WvWvW and often times conditions are just going to come right back on after it’s done if you are standing in that area to get them all cleaned.

Worst:
1) iMage – This Phantasm will almost never do anything of note for you.
2) Mind Stab – I love the Greatsword but I am never going to want to stand still in sPvP that long.
3) Signet of Midnight – Just doesn’t really do anything for you. Assuming you are holding a point by yourself or with 1 other, unless they are a boon-spammer it’s passive is pointless. A blind is nice, but not on a 35 second CD.

PvE
Best:
1) iBerserker – Might be a weird choice. I love him for clearing out groups, or helping DPS down a larger target (which means more of his attacks will connect as it can hit 1 person multiple times if their hitbox is there)
2) Blurred Frenzy – Another vote for the Frenzy because it does everything you want in PvE. Survivability + High DPS + Cleaves + Low CD = Dead things which aren’t you
3) Time Warp – This helps in Dungeons and in large scale DE’s. 2x attack for a group OP.

Worst:
1) Phantasmal Disenchanter – No one ever stacks conditions on you enough for this to matter.
2) Mantra of Concentration – The number of time you need Stability and stun breakers in PvE that isn’t telegraphed is incredibly small
3) Arcane Thievery – Once again, mobs don’t tend to stack conditions OR boons enough for this.

WvWvW
Best:
1) Phantasmal Berserker – Hits people on walls when attacking, hits people on the ground when defending, can prevent people from chasing you and can enable you to catch people you are changing. Oh and he hits for a truckload of damage in AoE with no risk to you.
2) Temporal Curtain/Into the Void – Been talked to death already. Excellent for many of the same things as above, but more-so (minus the damage part). Also excellent to interrupt a stomp or rip people off siege engines temporarily. When you get a big group and you Blink + Curtain + Void and drag 5+ opponents who are routing, you will know love.
3) Feedback – Also talked to death. Amazing stuff happens on both offense and defense with this skill. I love to Feedback + iBerserker for the confusion finisher which punishes people even MORE for continuing to attack in the bubble.

Worst:
1) Illusionary Riposte – Does so little in a many vs many setting. If you end up getting focused, this skill will NOT help you.
2) Illusionary Counter – Same as above
3) Mimic – Just no. 1 ranged auto-attack (and let’s be fair, that is the only thing you will ever reflect with this) isn’t enough.

Just to state my thoughts on the subject of DE’s and various PvE issues… unless we are actually useless in it (we aren’t, we are tougher-mob killers, supporters with our utility skills and AoE effects, boss-killers etc.) or are unable to handle mobs of appropriate levels solo (we are more than capable in this regard) do not expect to see much in terms of PvE balancing unless there is a gratuitous gap in our skill set and capabilities somewhere (there isn’t). There will always be PvE imbalances because some capabilities (AoE specifically) are considered more valuable than others (protracted battles vs. a single target) and some are going to specialize in 1 and not the other.

We aren’t the most AoE efficient killers, because that is not our specialty. We are single-target and small-skirmish experts. Duelists. We have a trait line called “Dueling,” remember, which should tell you somewhat how ANet looks at the profession.

I’ve never really had much of a problem with farming and trash-mob removal, though it certainly isn’t our strong suit. Greatsword, Focus, Staff are our AoE-specific weapons and they do an adequate job. Not amazing, but adequate. This is the trade-off we have for being ridiculously survivable (especially in PvE where we just Decoy and leave, Blink and leave, Diversion and leave, Veil and leave, Mass Invisibility and leave, Into the Void and leave….), excellent at kiting (target the clones, foolish monster!) and amazing for protracted battles (repeatedly summoning multiple mobs that enemies end up killing 1 at a time while you keep resummoning them, all while doing your own thing? Yes please.)

TL;DR: We have pros and cons. One of our cons is being less AoE focused. It is more than balanced by our pros.

As I have said on this subject before in other forums: Mesmers are not allergic to thekittentarget marker. We don’t immediately die or get “screwed over” by the mark. In my opinion, in sPVP Mesmers are not harmed nearly as much as people tend to go around saying. Most people in higher level play are not fooled by clones regardless due to AI limitations (which would cost too much computationally most likely to be viable for ANet I believe). Also in higher level play, the targeting marker plays a large role in helping people focus people down. A team can’t simply leave it on the Mesmer and forget about it and expect to be as efficient.

In lower level games, people are still getting used to telling the signs. Eventually it will become second nature to everyone other than the lowest levels to pick out the real Mesmer. This is also fine, because Mesmers do not need to RELY upon 100% true deception in order to function properly. Even then, there will still be times when someone blows a cooldown or wastes time on a clone because they glanced too quickly (marker or not sometimes).

Now, this rant does not mean I don’t think there could be other skills that drop the targeting reticule. Specifically, Phase Retreat (Staff #2 skill) and the 2 “block” skills (Illusionary Counter and Illusionary Riposte for Scepter and OH Sword respectively) would make thematic sense as they act as “replacing” the Mesmer. Do I think this is game breaking or makes us somehow significantly less viable? No. Would they be nice to haves that make thematic sense? Yes.

TL;DR: It’s not nearly as big a deal as you think. We are not numerically or skillfully balanced in sPvP based on assuming we have consistent deception (thus our myriad of defensive skills) Also, by the time anyone is any good it becomes a moot point, and the better you get the less likely anyone is going to “waste” it on you anyway unless you need to be focused down (in which case stealth).