Guild Wars 2

Nuka Cola.8520:

selan.8354:

honestly i want a whip for the mesmer.i see it all the time in pve on npc’s and a whip would match the mesmer perfectly.

Even if they add it, its probably gonna be a 600 range weapon so meh

Personally, I think Mesmers are built to be mid-range fighters who jump in and out of long/medium/short range. I think a 600 range weapon wouldn’t be that bad considering we have a Greatsword for long range.

20/20/0/30/0 is my build, using Greatsword + Sword/Focus. Spec for Focus Reflection and Greatsword cooldown % so you can throw more Phantasms and Clones out with 4 and 2 respectively. upon casting, immediately shatter. The reason you spec for reflection and bring Feedback as a utility is that ranged mobs will shoot blindly into it and usually they damage themselves enough to count as a tag.

Warriors/Guardians/etc WILL be better at tagging and AoE farming than Mesmer, but we aren’t miserable/useless at it.

My current gear is:
- Knight’s Mantle/Boots/Leggings
- Berserker’s Helm/Chest/Gloves
- Berserker’s GS/Sword/Focus
- Ascended Power/Precision/CritDam%/Vitality Amulet/Ring/Earring
- Ascended Toughness/Power/Precision Ring/Earring
- Berserker’s backpiece

You probably don’t need dedicated healer gear for support (unless you really want it) since Healing Power doesn’t scale all that well for us. I’d go with Rabid for condition damage builds, and that is about it really. If you decide to not use Crit% or on-crit effects for anything (personally not recommended but whatevs) then maybe Soldiers for tankiness.

selan.8354:

honestly i want a whip for the mesmer.i see it all the time in pve on npc’s and a whip would match the mesmer perfectly.

Got to agree, the Whip would be a nice, unique weapon for a Mesmer.

Also: not sure what you mean by “healing fields” but we can AOE heal using either Restorative Mantas (heal in an AOE whenever you charge a Mantra) and technically you could get Regen on yourself somehow and then use Signet of Inspiration.

Using Torch, with it’s #5 skill (The Prestige I believe?), when you come out of stealth it acts as a blast finisher. As far as I know, that’s the only Blast finisher available to Mesmers.

My current Mesmer build with detailed explanations for each choice. “DPS Support” for WvW and PvE content mostly. Seems to fit the new “Meta” build.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/DPS-Support-Mesmer-WvW-PvE

sPvP specific Signet:

Passive Effect: Every 10 seconds, CTRL+T target on yourself is dropped.
Active Effect: Stealth for 3 seconds.

Would be limited that it probably wouldn’t even be taken most of the time, but would at least stop people QQing about “Mesmer and CTRL+T = dead Mesmer” (even though it’s untrue)

Nihmindu.4298:

In other words when trying to build a phantasm build for WvW you’d be better off focusing on toughness rather than vitality to help them survive the mass zerg?

…yet our illusion damage comes from the adept power line and the Minor Grandmaster in the Vitality…

Phantasms really aren’t designed to be tough to kill. They are designed to be one-off skills that force the enemy to waste time with them (even if it’s a hit or 2, it isn’t an attack against YOU) and if they don’t, they are punished by the effect happening again. Even in large AOE death clouds, a Phantasm usually can get its effect off before dying… unless the damage is VERY large, in which case I doubt a player would survive much longer themselves.

Haven’t played sPvP lately but for the people that DID use Focus previously did so for the following reasons:

- Swiftness, as you said, due to Mesmers sometimes being in the “roaming” role. Often times switching to Pistol if they are approaching an enemy from a distance if possible.
- Into The Void to interrupt a channel or stomp
- Phantasmal Warden can be utilized for damage when combined with Sword’s Illusionary Leap. You do IL, cast Warden, IL to swap for the Immobilize.
- Phantasmal Warden and Temporal Curtain, when specced for it, can Reflect projectiles. This allows you to safely kite with the Warden or the Curtain between you and a ranged foe since Warden only needs to be between you and the projectile. This can force them to close the distance….and then you can Temporal Curtain them back out.

As I said, I don’t know what the “standard” for Mesmer sPvP anymore but it was usually Greatsword or Staff and Sword/Pistol with Focus in the inventory for traveling between points. Maybe you are just seeing people who didn’t have the chance to switch out the Focus for the Pistol or OH Sword?

An AoE zone that applies Torment and stacks the more you move in it. Maybe centered on a Phantasm.

An AoE zone that adds a stack of confusion each time you attack while in it. Maybe centered on a Phantasm.

Swap that lets you swap positions with a random clone.

This build is geared towards solo survivability as well as small group (5-10) play. When in a zerg you want to swap Decoy with Null Field and have Time Warp available because individual survival is less important and Mass Invisibility is harder to leverage well in zergs. Portal instead of Blink is another good substitute in a large group scenario. Also I don’t like Blade Training in this build because our Sword is actually our least used weapon so CD reduction is less key.

My current Mesmer build with detailed explanations for each choice. “DPS Support” for WvW and PvE content mostly.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/DPS-Support-Mesmer-WvW-PvE

I personally prefer Greatsword + Sword/Focus. Greatsword is the DPS weapon of choice in WvW due to range, ability to generate clones, AoE damage + Cripple via Phantasmal Berserker (Cripple cannot be underestimated in allowing you to gain distance) while Illusionary Wave is an excellent gap-creator and interrupt. Focus will allow you to maintain overland speed and allow for reflection (if you spec into it), Warden does a lot of damage in siege defense situations, and Into the Void is great for catching the kitten -end of a group and ripping them up while they are down. Sword gives you a gap-closing Cripple and Immobilize, and Blurred Frenzy is good for offense as well as defense in a pinch.

You’ll want a mix of Berserker and Knight equipment, if you are looking for Ascended the Berserker + Valkyrie items are ideal for giving you some extra health against conditions also. Survivability can be increased by making sure to take Blink and possibly Decoy. I usually run with Mass Invisibility for risky maneuvers and “oh kitten” moments where you have to leave, or to setup ambushes on the offensive, though Time Warp is extremely powerful if you can keep the enemy in one spot (but helps little in survivability)

Equipment:
My equipment is mostly a mix of Berserker and Knights gear to have a very offensive build with some defense. This area can be mixed and matched to taste, but I will provide my justification for the equipment choices I have made.

Weapons:
Berserker Greatsword, because I expect to be at range I go full-out Berserkers for increased damage. Superior Sigil of Earth is chosen to add some sustained damage of a different type. Could also be swapped out with a Superior Sigil of Rage for the off-chance you could get Quickness at a good time.

Berserker’s Sword + Knight’s Focus, I mix Knight’s into this equipment because I expect to be in short range to get off a Blurred Frenzy and be within range to Illusionary Leap. I have a Superior Sigil of Accuracy to increase crit chance for a hopefully devastating Blurred Frenzy. Superior Sigil of Perception is to increase crit chance and damage even higher for both weapon sets.

Armour:
Berserker’s Helm/Gloves/Leggings/Boots for damage and crit chance/damage.
Knight’s Coat and Mantle for some defense while not sacrificing much in damage.
5x Superior Rune of the Air, we get 5 of these for increased crit damage (where most of our damage is coming from anyway) and very importantly for the Swiftness on healing. This, along with Temporal Curtain with reduced cooldown from Warden’s Feedback is enough to provide you with permanent Swiftness. We don’t expect to get hit often enough (we should be evading/otherwise avoiding damage as opposed to tanking it) to make 6th Rune worth it. A Superior Rune of Divinity provides 2% critical damage, and buffs a few stats just enough to be worth it.

Amulet, Rings and Back:
Berserker + Valkyrie Amulet/Ring/Earring: This gives us a good mix of offensive stats and some Vitality. With everything all told, we should be around 18,700 health, which is very respectable along with our Toughness from Knight Equipment.
Knight Ring/Earring: These provide us with some more Toughness without sacrificing much attack-wise.
Berserker Back: That last bit of offense to push us up over 50%+ crit rate and around +80% crit damage.
Precision Infusions: I use Precision Infusions to get those crit stats up as high as I can. A couple percentage points can equate to a lot of damage in this build.

Traits:
The traits are statted out to provide the best stat bonuses and a host of useful traits that fit with our DPS Support strategy.

20 Domination: Provides Power and Condition Duration. Power is useful for damage (obviously) and Condition Duration helps our Bleed stacking secondary damage. We pick up Empowered Illusions for extra Phantasm damage from Phantasmal Warden and Phantasmal Berserker. We also pick up Greatsword Training for the reduced cooldown on our main offensive tool (which allows for Mirror Blade spam and increased Phantasmal Berserker production, amongst other things) and the extra 50 power is always welcome. The minor traits aren’t very important, but do provide the ability to add a good number of stacks of Vulnerability upon doing a Diversion shatter or other interrupt.

Alternatives: If you find yourself shattering more often, you could also replace one of the 2 with Mental Torment for increased Shatter damage, or Crippling Dissipation for Cripple support.

20 Dueling: Dueling provides us with Precision and Critical Damage. Most of our damage is going to come from crits, making this an ideal line. I pick up Phantasmal Fury for increased Phantasm crits (since they are the major source of our damage regardless). I also pick up Desperate Decoy for added survivability. Going Invisible in WvW is better than SPvP due to more hectic battlegrounds, and in PvE mobs are too stupid to go looking for you. The Minor traits you get are amazing. Critical Infusion provides vigor on your numerous crits, meaning you will be able to dodge VERY often, making you very mobile in combat. The highlight of the tree however is Sharper Images. With this build, your Clones and Phantasms will crit approximately ~73% of the time, and each time they do they will add stacks of Bleed. Phantasmal Warden hits up to 12 times and Phantasmal Berserker hits 3-4 times per whirl. It also works well with Mirror Blade Clones as they hit 3x per basic attack, each one capable of proccing a Bleed stack.

Alternatives: You can definitely do worse than replacing Desperate Decoy for Deceptive Evasion. It provides more fuel for your shatters for doing something you were probably going to do anyway. In fact, I’m not sure Desperate Decoy is the correct pick and more research will be needed to determine which is actually better.

30 Inspiration: Inspiration provides increased Healing (meh) and Vitality. Vitality definitely helps our survivability some, as we are otherwise mostly offensive in nature. I choose Glamour Mastery for better cooldowns on some of the most useful Utility skills (Portal, Null Field, Feedback and Time Warp are all considered Glamours). One of the 2 main reasons for choosing this line is to get Warden’s Feedback. This makes Temporal Curtain into a Reflect wall in addition to providing Cripple and Swiftness, and Phantasmal Warden into a whirling zone of death that has to be AoE’d down or risk approaching. The decreased cooldowns also ensures that with proper Rune choices, you can have permanent Swiftness for field mobility. Lastly, we pick up Restorative Illusions. With an average of 2 Illusions out we can heal for a respectable 1124 in an AoE upon shattering, or 1316 with 3 Illusions. Minor traits include giving Phantasms Retaliation, creating a punishing mechanic for taking out your Phantasms, Phantasmal Healing which provides an AoE of Regeneration to allies and the second main reason for taking this line, Phantasmal Strength which gives another whopping +15% damage to Phantasms.

Alternatives: Restorative Illusions can be replaced with Shattered Conditions, depending on who you are facing. You could also go with Mender’s Purity when solo for easy access to a self-condition removal spell.

Heal, Utility Skills and Elite:
Mesmers have an excellent selection of Utility skills to choose from. Below is a list of the ones I use specifically for WvW/PvE, along with some examples of alternatives that also work well with the build.

Ether Feast:
This build can generate Clones quickly with Greatsword’s Mirror Blade and Sword’s Illusionary Leap to help beef up the heal, but in the end I would pick it even if it was vanilla because it has the strongest base heal for the Mesmer. Mirror is a consideration in specific projectile-heavy situations, but personally I find the bigger heal more important.

Blink:
I will always use Blink. Stun Break is invaluable for escaping sticky situations (as we are squishy), closing the gap on fleeing enemies to hit them with a Cripple or Snare, and gets you around certain obstacles in PvE like traps.

Feedback:
Feedback is an amazing skill in PvE and WvW. Providing a large AOE Reflect is an incredibly useful status, completely shutting down ranged projectiles. In skirmishes, it can be dropped on your party to protect them or on the enemy to hinder, it also provides a useful combo field that provides Chaos Armor to allies and Confusion to the enemy. It is also good in keep defense, as you can drop it on a group of attackers and force them to take a fair bit of damage before they realize what is happening. In PvE, certain mobs ONLY have ranged attacks (including some bosses!) and this will shut them down (and they usually aren’t smart enough to move out of it) so it has utility everywhere.

Decoy/Null Field/Portal:
The third slot for Utilities is very malleable, and are situation dependent. Decoy is a life-saver in WvW when you are alone or in a small group, providing a stun breaker and a…well, decoy for the enemies to target. Null Field strips boons from enemies and conditions from allies, useful for mid-sized skirmishes and PvE situations with condition heavy foes in dungeons or Fractals. For jumping puzzles, portal bombs and “espionage,” Portal is hard to beat in out-of-the-box tactics and support. Can also be used in combat in a pinch for desperate escapes.

Time Warp/Mass Invisibility:
These two skills have very, VERY different uses. Time Warp is obviously amazing as it provides group-wide Quickness for a surprisingly long 10s, allowing for massive damage output in short order which is great for large scale combats or turning the tides. Mass Invisibility on the other hand allows for ambushes and escapes for a small group by providing, well, Invisibility. I prefer Mass Invisibility for small tactical groups who want to engage other small groups in ambushes, and be given an option to escape against larger ones.

The thing to remember about Mesmers is that they have a wealth of unique, useful Utility skills. Play around with them and get a feeling for what you find most useful.

Weapon Selection:
The weapons I chose are what I find optimal for WvW play, after testing a wide variety of them (minus Torch, which I’ll get to). The decision behind each weapon is as follows:

Focus:
The main piece to keep in mind here is the Focus. The Focus gives us AOE Swiftness using Temporal Curtain (doubling as Crowd Control with Into The Void) and also acts as a Reflect provider given our trait choices. Phantasmal Warden is excellent for keep defense (it causes people to scatter or take heavy damage) and provides yet another instance of Reflect. The Phantasm also puts out IMMENSE damage on targets who are Immobilized/Stunned/etc and stacks Sharper Image bleeds incredibly well.

Sword:
The Sword is less important, though useful. It provides a short-range gap closer in Illusionary Leap and a small AOE Cripple/Immobilize, useful for catching fleeing enemies (along with the obvious Clone generation. Blurred Frenzy deals damage to enemies who have been rendered Immobilized/Stunned/etc. The biggest draw however is the fact that Blurred Frenzy provides Blur during the channel, making us invulnerable which can help survivability or to prevent being CC’d.

Greatsword:
The Greatsword was the slot that got switched around the most. Usually, it was to try either Scepter/Torch or more likely Staff, but I’ve come to the conclusion that the Greatsword provides the most benefits. Spatial Surge hits 3 times, great for the crit-heavy build. Mirror Blade generates clones very quickly up close (great for Shatters!), they can stack Sharper Image bleeds (3x attacks per channel, even if they do no damage themselves the bleeds will) and does some minor AOE. Mind Stab can help strip Swiftness from a fleeing enemy or an Aegis. Phantasmal Berserker is one of the most useful skills we have, as an AOE heavy damage and Crippler, it’s great for ambushes and forces the enemy to kill it or risk taking more damage. Lastly, Illusionary Wave is a great AOE Knockback for interruption, engaging, disengaging and more. Also, knocking people off cliffs is hilarious.

Hello everyone! Just providing an example of a simple, fun little build that provides good DPS while still retaining good utility and survivability. Definitely aimed more towards WvW and PvE, I’ve provided a great deal of detail below on my decision making process.

NOTE: If anyone wants to let me know how to set up spoiler sections that would be awesome. I attempted to but in all the previews the [spoiler] tags I added were shown in plain-text. Annoying. Regardless, WALL OF TEXT ALERT.

The build is here:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAR8dlwzKqXVTmGb9IxpHMf5PnkCVn6SKw9sB-jUzAYrhohxgpIwUFhMiAUybYsJwEVxIiGrao6aMtrQt+NRG8ioVDA-w

Details in the below posts.

pyronix.4081:

i just hit 80 on my mes. i’ve been killing some stuff in frostgorge sound. while i can confirm that I feel that the zerker damages a bit less, it does seem to do its attacks more often. I just don’t know if I’m remembering correctly since i’ve not been playing this class for the past few weeks (and based on the feedback on the forums, i guess i won’t be returning to this class any time soon). I’m not using phantasmal haste btw and I’m equipped in full berserker gear. can anyone confirm this?

Never base ANYTHING on forum feedback, as a rule. If you don’t feel particularly hindered by the changes, what does it matter what other people are saying? Most of the “this profession is ruined, I’m never playing Mesmer again/quitting” talk is generally people blustering anyway out of frustration.

My guess is that most of the people who say they are “quitting” will take, at most, a week off before being back and that at least 50% of the people saying they aren’t going to revisit the profession will be playing it before the end of the day.

Personally, I noticed a bit of a drop in my damage potential with the Mesmer but it wasn’t anything particularly note-worthy. The iBerserker dealing less damage on initial hit is a little disconcerting but overall didn’t feel particularly underpowered…

As for people complaining about the LOS fix, it was a FIX for a BUG that just happened to make things easier for us. People generally knew it was going to get fixed sooner or later, from what I had read in previous forum posts. It is kind of saddening we don’t get to deal TUNZ OF DMG during keep sieges now, but that doesn’t mean we can’t do ANYTHING to help. Off the top of my head:

- Portal for supplies, shenanigans
- Into the Void
- Chaos Storm
- Null Field
- Can still summon on top of CONSTRUCTED siege that is on the edge (cannons and pots of oil generally) as far as I can tell
- Summon Phantasms onto door (I think this still works?) which will still AOE through wall
- The same things anyone else can do (siege, attacking people as they try to enter the keep, supply runs, attack door…) but more awesomely with purple butterflies.

Would it be nice to have more AoE variety, and is its lacking noticable? Of course. Should they fix the issue with the first strike of Phantasm missing more than usual? Yes. Is the profession crippled in some horrible way? No.

RiversOnFire.3607:

SoS took the lead quick

but IoJ got the castle

According to that screenshot, I think you mean SoR took the castle

Very well played by SoS, look forward to a rematch in the future with you!

In a fair fight, I will /bow if time permits. If the enemy /laughs at me or otherwise taunts me and I manage to pull a win out, I will /laugh back. All in good fun.

1) This would be near impossible to enforce, as there are so many ways around something like that.
2) Alliances, pacts, etc. are always going to be possible as long as communication exists, so once again not enforceable
3) Screenshots of the supposed “not fighting even when close quarters”?

So now Nom is also transferring? Figures.

Bash.7291:

Did you not read the part about ANV having a 200 slot TS server FOR OTHER GUILDS TO USE and no other guilds used it? Also there WAS an alliance called the Anvil rock coalition (ARC) which did have meetings but pretty much went nowhere, again because nobody communicated? ANV TRIED to organize the server and got nowhere with it. We tried organizing the server, twice, before TFO had left, and then again after. We also tried recruiting guilds to our server, once again to no avail. atm we still have TS rooms for the guilds of SoS, TIAZ, TRT ATX, TAC, OTBT. we also had a room for TFO until they left. So please, do not just group us into jumping ship and saying we didn’t try.

I’m not saying you guys didn’t try. I’m saying you either didn’t try hard enough, or your attempts failed in some way. There is no shame in that, as it’s hard work and I personally wouldn’t be up to the task. I’m also not sure how well advertised the guild channel was but that is probably my own fault for not really looking for it.

Sorry if my comments were a bit crude/angry sounding. Still bitter after a group of ANV players told us it was essentially pointless for any of us to bother going into WvW and then left.

Bash.7291:

“@Sess Staying put? Good, not that I don’t understand why people would transfer to an easier situation. But remember, you don’t get better at something by going down to an easier situation. People are going to be hardened veterans on the lower tiered servers long before most other players. We will adapt to survive, because we have to, and that will pay off in the long term.”

We didn’t move to an easier situation. We left because we were sick of being in a completely unbalanced matchup every week, and because there was no organization on the server. ANV had a 200 slot TS set up for all the guilds of the server so we could coordinate and become organized, and barely anyone used it. We had multiple commanders in our borderlands that had no clue what they were doing other than zerging, and pugs that did nothing but follow said zerg without defending one bit. (To put this in perspective, friday night we had a queue on AR BL, and still lost everything on that map, because people do not know how to defend.)

When anyone that wasn’t Nom (and people even argued with him as well) tried telling them what needed to be done to keep our keeps/towers/camps the general attitude was horrible and led to fights in Team/Map chat. The whole situation was nothing but frustration, and sorry but what is the point of arguing with your own teamates while trying to do something all of us enjoyed.

As far as an easier situation? No. It isn’t like we moved to DH for the week to spawn camp. We moved to a much more equal playing ground, where you still have to fight tooth and nail to take/keep points on the map, but also the investments you put into the map are actually worth it instead of wasting multiple gold to take/defend a keep only to lose it to numbers 2 hours later.

You did move to an easier situation, however. Instead of investing the time/energy/leadership to rally the server together or forge alliances to cover our weaknesses, you decided to leave where those things were already done for you. We are outmatched due to server population issues and timezone coverage… changes which can possibly be fixed over time assuming organized guilds don’t leave the server during the growing pains.

I’ve been in WvW with a small raiding party and as some of those zergs as well, and many times Nom or others would generally tell us not to bother defending keeps due to overwhelming numbers within our own Borderlands. You require numbers in order to defend keeps while still going on to capture more. A skeleton crew won’t do much when the zerg is following you around recapping everything, and they STILL have numbers to spare to split off and take the few supply camps PUGs and small guilds are capable of taking. This is all a debate over strategy, however, and the issue is based on organization at its root.

People are going to argue in map/team chat when we are losing by as much as we typically are. It’s stressful. The reason we are losing I feel is a lack of night presence, and only way to do that is to forge alliances (which only one of the more organized guilds is going to be capable of doing that) to cover the time gap, as has been seen on the more successful servers.

Here is the thing. It doesn’t matter if it’s Anvil Rock, Ferg, wherever. If you are in a lower tiered server right now with low population and no timezone coverage you have 3 options:

1) Be the change. Help forge alliances. Organize the server. Power through the kitteny weeks and make the server better.
2) Rely on someone else to do it and listen to them and execute their strategies.
3) Leave because it’s too hard.

You opted for the 3rd. Seeing as this is a game, in the end it doesn’t matter. It’s up to you to enjoy the game you are playing, and if that means abandoning the server you are on instead of powering through it, then that is your prerogative.

Just don’t expect the people you abandon to like you for it.

On a personal note, I really don’t give a crap what guilds leave. The weak willed will be culled and eventually we will build our way up. I hope to be when we crush them in the future.

Anymras.5729:

Just because I don’t want to drop several gold, or spend several days, on making a single piece of armor or a single weapon doesn’t mean I want it with no effort.

It just means that I don’t want to spend days, or gold, working on -one piece of gear.- It doesn’t matter that I might never have to upgrade, it just feels like a waste of time to spend the few hours a day I have to play before I go to work trying to get crafting materials together to make something…and have nothing, not even a single piece of gear (unless I’ve had an unusually lucky day with drops/been especially industrious about hunting out every little thing I can find to make money) to show for it by the time I go.

But, you know. Go ahead and keep being better-than-thou prats, putting words into my fingertips about how I wish I could make the gear with no effort, if you insist on doing so.

To those that didn’t decide to take the “Oh, look at the lazy plebe” route: Thanks for the suggestions about Ectoplasm and Forge conversion – I’ll definitely make use of those while making the armor, now that I finally got the crap together to make the rifle. I have crap luck (with an almost full set of Magic Find gear, no less), so it took me until about twenty minutes ago to get the rifle stuff. At least Leather’s cheaper.

I think you are simply expecting too much for too little investment, honestly. You might feel that it takes too long, but the time commitment to getting the best statted gear available is quite low compared to many other MMOs. It took me approximately 3 days of casual WvWvW play + minor grind in end-game zones in order to farm most of the materials of my Exotic set. I am not rich by any means, but I also could have purchased most of the components off the get-go (have approximately 7g as of now, so not rich at all)

I think you just need to adjust your expectations. The rest of the game does seem to streamline you into getting all the gear you want fairly easily, but Exotics do take some (fairly mild, in my opinion) effort in order to obtain. Sometimes it is a matter of just finding the right locations to farm, and relaxing expectations. I think this is why some people are more angry over Legendaries/Precursors than others: their expectations of the game are different based on different experiences.

I’m not saying your view point is invalid or anything else, just giving my opinion.

PS: If you need any help with farming locations or anything else, let me know in game.

You guys are absolutely ridiculous with your “HOLY kitten EVERYTHING IS kittenED FOREVER” attitude. Good lord.

lollie.5816:

Sylosi.6503:

overall balance…As for the e-sport thing, most of the best players want balance…

Would you mind explaining how nerfing two pve phantasms (hardly used in pvp) helps with overall esport balance?

….which two Phantasms are never used in sPvP? iDuelist sees a great deal of use, as does iWarlock. iSwordsman serves same purpose as iDuelist in terms of “high damage dealing Phantasm for offhand” but tends to see less use due to OH Pistol having a better second skill and iDuelist doing more damage once you factor in multiple hits + Sharper Images.

Also, to address the people stating that Mesmers dont need nerfs due to being the least played profession, you are assuming that the reason people are not choosing Mesmer is due to an overall power level issue. This is an assumption, and it’s an incorrect one. When you look at profession/class popularity in games, you generally see professions picked due to the following:

1) Who deals the most damage?
2) Who has the most obvious synergies/obvious build paths?
3) Who has the most effect vs level of effort?
4) “Cool” factor

This is why many games are flooded with Warrior and Rogue variants. They usually deal the most damage, are the simplest to build, don’t require much effort and have a lot of developer support for cool weapons/gear. The more esoteric the class gets, the less play they see in general. There are outliers, of course, especially if a profession is woefully and obviously overpowered, but that is rare.

Mesmers did actually require some nerfage on their more spammable Phantasms. The amount of damage we could output over time was getting ridiculous. The “kill the Phantasms” mentality for “how to counter Mesmers” only makes sense if killing the Phantasms actually inconveniences the Mesmer in any way. If we can simply replace our Phantasms too rapidly, there becomes no reason not to simply spam them and it becomes an impossible situation to deal with.

Main a Mesmer. Can safely say that Phantasm build certainly isn’t dead.

A few seconds to generate a new iWarlock or a few more seconds on Storm doesn’t wreck the staff. Staff is still one of the most potent weapons. This does encourage us to swap weapons between recharges, which is what you should be doing anyway unless you want to stack more conditions in which you would be auto-attacking more regardless, and you can still spam #2 to keep stacking damaging conditions.

Happy to see the reduced recharge on Chaos Storm.

iSwordsman and iDuelist had VERY short recharge timers as well. It’s not like you don’t have other skills or other weapon sets to use during recharges, it just encourages less “Phantasm + AA lulz gg” play.

Why anyone is expecting our Phantasms to tank is beyond me. Clones can tank. We have multiple ways to dodge, kite and become invulnerable. Phantasms bring the damage. If you’ve been playing Mesmer for more than a couple days you’ve adjusted to this fact, and slightly higher recharge timers don’t hurt us that much frankly.

Conclusion: Sky is not falling, just keeping us “honest” with regards to Phantasm-only spam. Calm down.

Sunju.8310:

Carighan.6758:

True, it’s similar to criticizing that Rangers always have a pet, Elementalists use elemental attacks or Unicorns have horns in most depictions.

Personal preference, yes, but in this case your preference would then be not to roll a Mesmer!

That’s not personal preference, that’s being forced to not play a part of the game that I paid for simply due to unfortunate graphics design. Immersion is the key to any RPG. Also the clones are what are characteristic of the Mesmer. The butterflies are additional.

Good attempt, but not in line with the purpose of the thread. Options and answers rather than vague concepts that have no ground in reality.

You are not “forced” if you are making the decision to not play a particular part of the game because you dislike the art direction around it. People have already given plenty of reasons WHY the butterflies are there. Even if there was no reason at all (which, as I’ve stated, there are plenty of reasons stated) it, frankly, isn’t there problem at this point. Don’t go talking about how you “can’t access” certain parts of the content because you don’t like the looks of them. That isn’t how “forced” works. You are CHOOSING to not take part in a certain part of the content because you, PERSONALLY, do not like the appearance of some aspect of a profession.

If your reasoning for feeling like this has been somehow unfairly forced upon you outside of “but I don’t LIKE the butterflies!” for no reason other than personal preference, I don’t see what there is to discuss.

For a Mesmer “tank” build I would go with the following:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgAQNAW7dlwzKqnUTqGb9IhZG9G5oes9s/9yHwNA;TsAAzCpoay0koJbTumkNtAZAy2DA

Mesmers can “tank” in several different ways, and have several options for “control” which is what we really need. You should go for high toughness, probably condition damage (you will probably be going for a battle of attrition on a tankier build), quick clone generation, damage mitigation and utility.

I would go with a Staff and Scepter/Focus build for tank/control Mesmer. Staff is inherently defensive due to Phase Retreat, Chaos Armour and Chaos Storm. It also gives you a good plan of attack for killing enemies (condition damage). Phase Retreat will generate clones for you to take the heat off as well as being a “dodge.” Scepter/Focus provide alternative condition damage in confusion, clone spam to redirect attacks (clones which end up in melee which means you can Daze shatter for interrupts more reliably) it also provides a block against telegraphing mobs (which generates more clones) and is ranged so you can kite once you draw hate. Focus is anti-range, provides an interrupt with Into the Void and allows for mobility control. It also stacks Bleed stacks well for Sharper Images and provides you with very valuable AoE damage outside of Chaos Storm.

Utility skills can include things like Phantasmal Defender (half damage), Decoy (take hate off you temporarily, allows for stun breaks, shatter fodder, another body to hit…) and Null Field for group condition removal. If you aren’t in a condition-heavy environment this can be something like Signet of Domination (increase condition damage, another stun/interrupt), Feedback (more ranged hate to suppliment Focus) or Blink (positioning is also control).

For my Elite, it is up to you but personally I like the idea of Mass Invisibility. Yes, it is rarely used but it can be the ultimate “start over” and if you are tanking for a group, you can save them from death. This combos well with Runes of Lyssia (removes all conditions, gain all buffs for the ultimate do-over) if you decide to use them. Personally, I would use either that or Superior Rune of the Undead for more toughness and even more condition damage.

These are all suggestions and a disclaimer as this is theorycrafting ONLY as I have never run this spec.

As has been said, in no particular order:

- Butterflies use their camouflage for deception
- Butterflies are the symbol for chaos theory
- Butterflies were used as imagery in the original GW
- Butterflies represent fragility and trickery via mimicry
- Butterflies work well with the purple colour scheme
- Butterflies are a stylistic choice by ANet instead of music because then they become Yet Another Bard/Minstrel Class.

You aren’t being “forced” into this asthetic choice any more than any other profession and it is just as validated for Mesmer (due to the above) as the other professions with their aesthetic choices. Butterflies for Mesmers are no different than Locusts for Necromancers, Doves for Guardians, Elements for Elementalists… they were chosen because they represent that profession. Not to sound aggressive, as that isn’t my intent, but if you don’t like the aesthetic well… that is simply too bad. It makes sense and I can’t foresee them changing it anytime.

As an aside, I think that it would be an interesting experiment to have different “particle packs” as gem store items that allowed for different graphical tweaks. But then again, those graphical tweaks also make it better for distinguishing who is doing what during gameplay (especially any PvP aspect) that it might not be in ANet’s best interest. (The PVP aspect I talk about is also why in Team Fortress 2 you can change your hats and weapons, but your overall silhouette is the same: for easy distinction)

Theorycrafting a support/healing build:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/en/?fgEQNAW7dl4ziqXVTiGa9IxpHMf5OHlirbdSKKNqB;TsAg2Cuo6y0loLbXuukdt2YsxeBA

For this I am using Mantras (for Restorative Mantras), which works well with Superior Rune of Water (AOE heal everytime you use one of your 2 Mantra charges). You can also spam either the damaging Mantra or the Daze Mantra (whichever you feel is more appropriate for the content you are facing, though Daze has a higher CD) for more healing upon recharge. Sigil of Superior Water on the weapons mean more healing in the interim.

My secondary focus is Glamours as 2 of the Glamours (Feedback, Null Field) are excellent support skills in their own right. I took Confusing Enchantments and Dazzling Glamours to make them more potent (confusion deals damage to them, blind makes it so they miss whatever they were attacking anyway in Null Field. Adds confusion to the reflective damage in Feedback) and I got Glamour Mastery to cut down on their CDs. You can also choose between Temporal Enchanter and Warden’s Feedback if you want them to last longer.

Using this we are specced for a combination of healing and condition damage. Condition damage gives us a good fallback while our healing abilities aren’t needed and/or are on cooldown/recharge. Due to Staff’s nature as a more passive weapon, we can setup our clone + Phantasms (Staff 2-3) and drop a Chaos Storm for boons/conditions (Staff 5) for persistent effects while we switch out to Scepter/Focus for either burst Confusion (Scepter 3, Scepter 1 + Confusing Cry, further boosted by Illusionary Retribution), cripple/swiftness/displacement/combo field (Focus 4) or reflection (Focus 4-5, 5 also provides DPS). During all of this, we will be watching for instances where we can help heal (Mantra charging, Mantra heal + Sigil) and laying down a Glamour (Null Field, Feedback) in the appropriate situations for AoE Confusion/Blind

With this build we should always be busy and should always have a heal/support skill available, while doing other useful things (due to persistent Phantasms/clones)

NOTE: This has NOT been tested personally by me. I am theorycrafting this and intend to try it at some point.

Mesmers basically have an overhead cost to them that other professions don’t have. Our damage generally comes from our Phantasms, which require time to setup. The benefit to this, however, is that once the overhead cost of a few seconds is up, we have some very safe, reliable DPS that doesn’t even require us to intervene directly. Once we have setup we also are capable of fighting off tougher opponents individually than many other professions. 10 seconds might seem like a lot, and maybe it is, but it comes with it’s own set of perks.

Greatsword Phantasms (iBerserker) will spawn on the wall and attack. iWarden, assuming you have proper LoS will also work. It is mostly angles you need to worry about, as too steep of an angle will cause you to lose LoS and if they run behind a parapet. iBerserker will spawn properly regardless of line of sight, as long as they are within range. You can also get the ranged ones to hit, but once again you need to find the “sweet spot” regarding distance in order to pinpoint where the angle will work or not.

For non-Phantasm related things you can do, anything with ground targeting (Chaos Storm, Mind Stab) can be targeted at the top part of the wall and it will hit the enemies standing on top of that section. Another excellent thing you can do is use Feedback (the utility). This is especially good, as it will cause all projectile attacks (ie: most ranged attacks) to reflect back. It is also a Confusion-granting combo field for your own projectiles. Lastly, Temporal Curtain can yank people off the wall as long as there is no lip for them to get caught on. If you see someone getting cheeky, run up and cast it on the wall and immediately use Into the Void to yank them off.

For non-direct combat things you can do, don’t forget that you can summon your Phantasms on any targetable gate or wall. They do substantial damage and, in the case of iBerserker/iWardens being placed on the gate, will damage people immediately behind it (ie: anyone trying to repair it). Also have a Null Field ready for when they get arrow carts and start trying to cripple/bleed everyone. Lastly, your AoE Elites (Time Warp especially, but also Mass Invisibility) can play a huge roll if they decide to come out and fight or after you’ve broken through.

If you STILL don’t feel you are being helpful, join another small group and go hit smaller targets, secure the supply lines or build/maintain siege equipment.

Obvious troll is troll.

I am sure there will be more “legendary” equipment that comes out with expansions and whatnot that are tied to various quests and whatnot. I can imagine a DE that spans the entire globe and at the end it gives you a particular Legendary. Would be along the same lines as Dungeon equipment. I’m also sure they will tie some Legendaries to particular achievements in some way. That stuff will all come as they work towards developing the end game (when more people reach it)

Boon stealing still seems a bit over the top. Also, ANet’s usual distribution for skills for MH Pistol seems to be Auto-Attack, some sort of distance maker, and a flavour skill. I would try and follow same pattern if possible if you were serious about wanting them to look into it.

Something like:

1) Thief-like AA. Not sure whether it should cause bleeding or not. I imagine it as a single-target DPS ranged weapon.
2) Spawn a clone, both jump back and shoot once while doing so. Causes Cripple on attack
3) Miss Fortune from LoL-style narrow cone attack that roots you in place dealing damage. Make it narrow enough that it doesn’t really do much as far as AoE is concerned but if someone walks into it they start taking the damage.

Gives you a VERY basic combo (2+3) that isn’t overly powerful (they aren’t rooted so can still get away from it) that still gives us good single-target DPS on PvE mobs and can be used in conjunction with the off-hands without being overpowered.

Time Warp is superiour in skirmishes and large scale combat, however, where beefing up your whole team is more important than shutting down 1 person on the enemy team.

Ironically as I am rallying against people who are saying Phantasm Power builds are the only route in other threads… I am using a Phantasm Power build at the moment haha. I just also use other builds as I level up.

Helberus.4320:

Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration are the most worthless ones.. their only exchange is for damage less than the phantasms used to fuel it.. even 1 phantasm in the mix makes the shatter questionable..

Why do our clones and phantasms occupy the same slots anyway? Anet’s clearly made a distinction between their functions, so why share the same slots for shattering?

I disagree with Mind Wrack and Cry of Frustration. If you need AoE damage and your Phantasms are iDuelist and iWarden, what point are they? Also, sometimes you need damage NOW, and Phantasms take their sweet time attacking. Cry of Frustration is also AoE if I’m not mistaken and fits in the situation where if they are spamming attacks, the damage output can be VERY considerable, though more useful for Condition builds where your power may be lacking.

As for distinguishing differences…it is so we can’t have our cake and eat it too. Do you need an effect now, or do you want to gamble that your Phantasms are going to get another shot at doing their thing (and are in the position to do their thing effectively)? It is also to discourage people from putting their eggs into the very-fragile basket of the all-Phantasm strategy. I know I open up with Phantasms, but if the situation calls for it, I shatter. It also ALLOWS for someone to go one route or the other.

This is actually the thing that bothers me. It seems that people are upset they can’t do both shatter builds AND having Phantasm-afk at the same time. If an Elementalist said he wanted to be able to burst people down from 100% to 0 like a Thief, AND also do top-tier condition damage, AND have survivability, AND receive daily massages from their favourite gosh darned masseuse, you’d say they were being unreasonable.

So ask yourself, why would that be any different than saying “Hey, I want to be able to have constant, high damage from all my Phantasms and I also want to have zero opportunity or damage costs on these abilities that are clearly scaled to have a cost to them vis-a-vis clone/Phantasm death. I also want a pony.” It doesn’t work that way. These are very strong effects (Guardian’s can help their allies block 1 attack on a high CD. Mesmers can become completely invulnerable for 3-4 seconds) and the cost in Phantasms/Clones is the price they come with. If you don’t think their worth it, you aren’t using them right or you have a beef with the multipliers/numbers involved.

Looks like he is trying to duel. Moa, I would think, is considered a bit unfair in a straight duel. You can retrain points at the Mesmer trainer in various locations. You should see them on your map in any of the race-specific hubs.

Deceptive Evasion clones use the #1 attack exactly as Staff #2 attack does (if I’m not mistaken)

Bleeds stack from any source, so Sharper Images and Staff bleeds will in fact stack.

McClearyUnderMistRaildexGun.2086:

TL:DR a lot of mesmer mechanics seem to arguably work against each other. Highskill cap/specialization required (while ignoring the other side) or just slightly flawed design?

It gives you options on what to specialize in, or accept that neither will be perfectly optimal but provides you versatility. It’s up to you to determine the opportunity cost and decide whether it makes sense which option to take at any given time. I know most of the people on this forum (like myself) are going to be Min-Maxers and the first thing Min-Maxers do is try to stack strength upon strength. This is why Phantasms are the most common build. They have obvious effects, and the manner in which you can stack them are obvious. Most Min-Maxers don’t “do” versatility/hybrid. Not many Min-Maxers used Bards in older D&D editions either, but they are invaluable in many roles.

On a more light-hearted note, I also find the whole confusion vs. daze/stun being “counter-intuitive” kind of funny. God forbid you have too MANY ways to make an enemy suffer. Oh dearie me, should I make it so they have a hard time attacking me at all, thus denying them DPS, or making it so they can continue doing DPS, at the cost doing damage to themselves? MESMERS MUST REALLY SUCK!

Xfraze.1704:

Speaking of the focus ability, does it suck enemies out in the direction the arrow is pointing when it’s placed? Is there an easier way to manipulate the direction it’s going? From what I observed, if it’s in front of your character, the arrow faces forward, if behind, the arrow goes back.

I usually have to run up close to an enemy, place the marker behind me, then activate the skill, then the enemy gets sucked away.

Further complicating it is the fact that it appears depending on how close the enemy is to the line, the further they get pushed through which can make using it effectively a little hard.

Do I need to practice more, or am I just doing it wrong?

It draws enemies towards the curtain a set distance. Enemies close to one side or the other will go flying out the other side of it (if you are on the left of the curtain, it will drag you to the right) I don’t know exact angles or whatnot but it can also pull people who wouldn’t be able to pass through the curtain (just drags them closer) though those people do not get the cripple effect obviously.

Suzut.4905:

This has never been a question about “busy” vs “non-busy”. People are interested in playing EFFECTIVELY. Phantasms are stronger and more consistent DPS by far. Shatter is a very inconsistent and, quite frankly, weak playstyle.

Instead of bashing others for playing with builds that work, maybe you should offer constructive suggestions to enhance the viability of a Clone/Shatter build.

- Get the traits that boost Mind Wrack damage and Mind Wrack crit rate
- Get on-clone-death traits (so that when your clones get AoE’d, it doesn’t hurt nearly as much
- Get Illusionary Persona which increases the effects of shatters, makes Diversion 100% hit chance, always have 1 second Distortion available, and be able to do some damage if your clones are having issues getting through.
- Use Scepter/Staff/GS, pick 1-2 of these as they have the best clone generation tools. I prefer Staff + Scepter/Something as it sort of flows into the next thing…
- Go with condition damage on the side. It helps with AoE bosses (can’t Shatter at ‘em? Staff clones will wreck him)
- Even in this spec you don’t ignore your Phantasms. You summon iWarlock for a quick burst on on tougher mobs. Focus, Pistol or OH Sword all have Phantasms for different purposes as well.
- Take utility skills that help your build: the illusion signet, anything that helps with AoE are good, Decoy for Clone + escape, Mirror Images for surprise burst, etc.

These are my suggestions anyway.

EasymodeX.4062:

One of us is high on something.

Both of you.

Sardoni.8361:

I’m level 80 and asking these questions about clone stats. Imagine the confusion of a new player picking up the class. It’d be nice to have some transparency in game (somewhere on the stats page or something) to this… but then people might treat them like “pets”.

Can’t win for losing.

I’ll stop derailing now =P

I agree that more and better descriptions for each skill and maybe a “Profession Page” that gave hard data on various profession features would be ideal.