Guild Wars 2

Good riddance to potions and night weapons.

A/T for Condi builds.
LB + S/A for Power builds
Staff + x for raid healer builds.

Zaklex.6308:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Yeah… we need DC protection in this game in general, not just in raids. But that does sound awful for the ocassional DC right now

No, actually people don’t need DC protection in this game, I can guarantee you that 99% of the issues with people DC’ing is either OOM or something goes wrong with packet loss in the route between the ArenaNet servers and the persons computer. It has nothing to do with the games stability in the super majority of cases…in 3 years of playing I’ve probably DC’d less than 10 times(I don’t count when that idiot was doing the DNS attack), and of those, 2 or 3 where issues with the Log-in server crashing(maybe even 4) and one was my net going out…the rest, probably due to packet loss or(if I wanted to believe the game messages, the system losing connection).

P.S. – Keep in mind the OOM DC’s are a result of the new maps and being on a 32-bit client using a 32-bit OS, you’re just asking for trouble if you use cranked up graphics.

P.P.S. – You can take this with a grain of salt as well, since it’s technically just my opinion, though if you think about it, it makes complete sense.

Just saying, when I d/c in other MMOs it doesn’t kick you out of the instance, my character just stays there until I reconnect and I probably log on dead.

And I don’t have OOM errors anymore with the new client btw and knew how to prevent them before.

Edit: also going to point out I’m talking about actual d/c’s, not memory leaks for what it’s worth.

Yeah… we need DC protection in this game in general, not just in raids. But that does sound awful for the ocassional DC right now

atheria.2837:

TurtleDragon.3108:

You wont grab aggro ever since you do no damage lol.

Wrong answer.

I do tons of damage – those who don’t aren’t traited correctly.

Kinda hard for the Minstrel Ranger by himself to do tons of damage but okay. You’re either not using minstrel’s gear, relying on your pet or have a very low standard for tons of damage.

Sun Spirit is more DPS in longer fights and quickness is easy to get with DH’s/Chrono’s in your party.

Main thing you need is the 2 outgoing healing modifiers from Monk runes + Delicious Rice Balls. 3.8k Wings of Resolve every 30s is nice, but you can go double staff and Quick Draw your Ancestral Grace and get more heals out of it that way. Druid does more healing than a guardian, there’s no doubt about that.

Since you were wondering about “proper druid gear” my ancestral grace heals around 4.5k and glyph heal in Celestial Form around 9.5k in full ascended clerics gear. My zealots set does around 500 and 700 less healing on those skills. Interpret that as you will.

You don’t actually need everyone to contribute damage to beat the raid encounters and swapping off staff to do DPS may limit your ability to heal reactively if you ever get stuck on your DPS set while needing to heal. Druids primary role is to heal, damage and your own survivability come second. There was no raid encounter so far where the Druid absolutely had to contribute damage and leave staff. Most people on this forum are going to tell you otherwise.

tl;dr: Staff camping = Gear with healing power main stat. Otherwise gear with healing power secondary stat.

You wont grab aggro ever since you do no damage lol.

Flat out saying druid has 77.5% outgoing healing is misleading and is skewing the info to benefit your posts. It’d be like calculating DPS modifiers using SotW and Frost Spirit modifiers at 100% uptime.

It’s kinda unfair to sum up all those possible modifiers for the unlikely scenario where you actually do have +77.5% modifer with a non 100% uptime. Stacking sigil of benevolance to full is going to be infeasible in raids and non-existant during progression. CAF GoEmp is something you are only goign to use when you really need it because the damage boost is way better. Natural Mender won’t even be 100% up time either if you are planning on using your on swap to DPS. Realistically, it’s more like +20% + x Natural Mending Stacks.

With zealots, you are basically paying 200g to make your staff #1 pulse for 1322 dmg instead of 981

Shadelang.3012:

Haha no offense taken. Likewise I tend to see your viewpoint as equally inflexible just in a different form. Its one of the reasons I typically try to stay out of this type of convo. Becuase ultimately its two opposing viewpoints. I tend to base my playstyle on what I can realistically expect which I believe ill encounter most often. But its true in a “perfect” scenario my absolute capability is less in a specialized situation. The build I am intending to run will be a hybrid after all. I made it under the assumption that something does go wrong. Not on the assumption that everyone I play with will be perfect or near perfect. I hope to cover for the imperfections.

I ran with some extremely skilled guilds in my wow days. And I took part in the AQ40 rush for server first (we were late by 6 minutes -.-) so I very much understand your viewpoint. I don’t agree with it and part of me thinks it will cause a collapse at some point based on my previous experience. But at the same time I understand it and I believe your logic is sound. However.. I believe your logic is colored pretty heavily by the content we have available to us at this time. And assumptions made on future content. While I ended up with an opposing viewpoint based on my previous raiding experience.

Im not under the illusion that what I do will be best for a world first attempt. Infact Im not even going to attempt that for this raid (I probably will make the attempt for the next wing provided I find a team to run with). I tend to focus more on the stable approach.

In the end I feel its a difference in method of play. Which is interesting when ya think about it.

Edit: also Im not entirely inflexible with my spec choice haha. Im inflexible with my utility choice. Which is one part of a larger build. I know the utilities I use best. My traits are all subject to change. The only line I feel is mandatory for my playstyle is beast mastery. Its what I know best after all.

Well, most of my raid experience is in the last 5 years, so I probably raided after you quit WoW. I’m familiar with current and recent raids but not vanilla-TBC-early wotlk. Different times and styles I guess which may be why our experience and mindsets are fairly different.

Also, the part that’s confusing me slightly is that you keep switching back between WoW and GW2 lol and I don’t know which side you were on for druid builds. Lucky for you, the build we used on our Vale Guardian kills contains Beast Mastery and we think it is viable/good for druids.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

Stats and gear definitely do not matter in the slightest, unless you are trying to set records or be totally efficient. Literally anything is viable if you are aware of the game mechanics.

Well, we are going for world first so we are trying to set records or be totally efficient.

I do like to be efficient. I like to be the best I can for the team as well. This is why I think Clerics is a bad choice. It has 400 less power and base crit chance so it deals miniscule damage. Not only that, but imo, the toughness is just a wasted stat, mostly undesirable in that instance anyway due to the possibility of pulling agro. The trade off is a mere 400 healing power. Really not worth it imo.

I just see Zealots as FAR superior if you actually want to contribute to the raid and not just push out heals that will be only fractionally better. Remember that 400 healing power with a scaling of 0.1-0.25 is 40-100 healing, so near negligible that it just does not matter when you are offsetting that with so much more DPS. If a 40-100 heal increase is what is keeping your team alive, then they need to find better tactics.

Cosmic Ray with full ascended Clerics heals for 1141, with Zealots it is 1062, so a difference of 80 or 7% (these numbers will change with launch, but not by much). When I can build to do 7% less healing for 50% more damage, the choice to me is obvious. My $0.02 anyway.

Hate to pull numbers out of thin air, but staff DPS with Zealot Armor/Weapons + Cleric trinkets is only like 400 dps better than full clerics. Hardly worth it since you currently cannot got ascended zealot trinkets.

During phases when I am out of CAF, which is 33% of the time at least, I will want to contribute DPS to help the party. Also, DPS will still be important for trash mobs and all other content. I just know how bad Clerics damage truly is from running Cleric Guard in Fractals, its fun to heal and make the runs smoother, but its such terrible damage .

That is the exact reason I’ve been advocating clerics. The enrage timers aren’t so unforgiving that you need everyone to be doing as much dps as they can and run 10 glass cannons. That’d be counterproductive to their goal of destroying the zerker meta.

But hey, if you want to build your druid differently that is cool with me. I’m open to all suggestions and will be trying out many things before raids are released.

Shadelang.3012:

snip

No offense, but you are the exactly the type of player (The people who play a pure and are not flexible with their spec choices) I wouldn’t want to be in the same team with. And that is perfectly okay if our goals are different as long as we found the right team for us. It’d be like joining a zerker speed run when you are clerics and want to kill everything.

I do understand your point, but that just doesn’t apply to world first guilds and is less true the higher the skill of your guild is. I used to play an elemental shaman, which is usually mediocre or low DPS on simcraft, but I still managed to be top DPS on a lot of fights for many reasons. 1. I was a good player and knew how to pad/cheese meters. 2. Other players in the guild were worst than me 3. The guild in general wasn’t skilled enough to beat encounters pre nerf or without over gearing encounters. #2 and #3 were the main reasons why I was able to top meters on a class that doesn’t sim well, if I was in a decent guild I would have been last on meters.

Also, there is no meta yet for raids. We have to make ourselves cause it’s new content. Your guess for what good is as good as mine is, and things can and will change from beta.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TurtleDragon.3108:

…Why not? It’s no different than using the right Talents/gear in WoW, LAS in Wildstar etc. Raids aren’t play how you want environments, and using the right builds or playing to your teams wishes is pretty standard.

It’s totally different because stats do not matter near as much here as elsewhere. This whole game is a play how you want environment, stats have nothing to do with being viable, they only make you more efficient. You can literally complete all content currently in the game with no armor or traits whatsoever. Raids will be harder, but I’m betting not as hard as people are expecting. They certainly will not be gear gated.

My point was that your guild wants you to run Cleric gear, so I wouldn’t want to be in that guild because I don’t want to run Cleric gear. 1250 healing power and +40% healing is ample, so, the rest of the stats are put into damage. Same as if they wanted me to run Soldiers for WvW or Sinister for dungeons. I don’t let people dictate to me how to play the game, I just play with people who know what they are doing, but are easy-going.

Stats and gear definitely do matter. If you don’t enjoy playing that way, it’s cool. But I do enjoy being in an environment where everyone is running the meta and trying to be efficient and the best player they can be for the team. We are preparing for the worst case scenarios where raids are actually hard instead of being under prepared and surprised. I maybe should have mentioned that my guild is participating in the world first race as well.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you call gearing for survivability a waste then sure. You and 9 other players can just play perfectly for 9-10 minute fights, and at that point you probably don’t even need the druid.

Build your Druid how you like mate, I’ll be using Zealots because I will not be taking attack damage, due to positioning, dodges and never getting agro. I’ll only be taking environmental damage that is unavoidable and most likely armor ignoring anyway.

It is the environmental/unavoidable damage that needs to be healed and the reason for Druids existence, all other damage can be mitigated without stats. Which is why I think Zealots is the way to go. It will not take long for people to learn everything about the Raids and run all Zerker/Sinister again, in which case, Clerics is even worse again.

Well, I don’t have a choice with my builds as my guild’s theorycrafter elected to min max healing, then damage afterwards (not that I disagree with him). I don’t plan on face tanking with my druid, but the extra buffer for mistakes is something we put more value on.

I do disagree with everyone being Zerker/Sinister glass cannons when the content is on farm since the current meta is just a by product of encounters just being plain undertuned, old, power creep and being neglected since development. It is harder for twice as many players to play with yolo speed clear strategies in fights that last 10 minutes. The player itself does not get stronger with the rewards from the raid, only more experienced. If there are nerfs or power creep again, then I could see it happening.

I would never be in a guild like that. Allowing someone else to tell you what gear you have to use and what build? Never.

There are videos of the 1st raid boss completed where every person there was in zerk gear, including the Druid and they complete it fine. I’m sure the other bosses will be harder, but once everyone knows what is coming, they will be able to play glassy, it happens every time content is released and people get better at completing it and creating specific strategy for countering the mechanics.

Why not? It’s no different than using the right Talents/gear in WoW, LAS in Wildstar etc. Raids aren’t play how you want environments, and using the right builds or playing to your teams wishes is pretty standard.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TurtleDragon.3108:

If you call gearing for survivability a waste then sure. You and 9 other players can just play perfectly for 9-10 minute fights, and at that point you probably don’t even need the druid.

Build your Druid how you like mate, I’ll be using Zealots because I will not be taking attack damage, due to positioning, dodges and never getting agro. I’ll only be taking environmental damage that is unavoidable and most likely armor ignoring anyway.

It is the environmental/unavoidable damage that needs to be healed and the reason for Druids existence, all other damage can be mitigated without stats. Which is why I think Zealots is the way to go. It will not take long for people to learn everything about the Raids and run all Zerker/Sinister again, in which case, Clerics is even worse again.

Well, I don’t have a choice with my builds as my guild’s theorycrafter elected to min max healing, then damage afterwards (not that I disagree with him). I don’t plan on face tanking with my druid, but the extra buffer for mistakes is something we put more value on.

I do disagree with everyone being Zerker/Sinister glass cannons when the content is on farm since the current meta is just a by product of encounters just being plain undertuned, old, power creep and being neglected since development. It is harder for twice as many players to play with yolo speed clear strategies in fights that last 10 minutes. The player itself does not get stronger with the rewards from the raid, only more experienced. If there are nerfs or power creep again, then I could see it happening.

If you call gearing for survivability a waste then sure. You and 9 other players can just play perfectly for 9-10 minute fights, and at that point you probably don’t even need the druid.

Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Dunno where everyone’s getting the idea that Zealots is going to be the best, but clerics is the way to go. You don’t play a druid in raids to do damage, you play one to heal and gimping your healing to do some terrible DPS is not worth the trade off

Clerics has too much toughness, if you are in a raid with a bunch of players in zerker gear, you will pull agro. Most likely Cleric has too much healing power if used with Monk/Delicious Rice/Benevolence too. Also, CAF has a 10s CD and a 20s Duration, so you will be out of CAF and wanting to contribute to damage 33% of the time. Having a LB/Staff will allow you to drop out of CAF and Quickdraw RF, Barrage and then swap back to staff, that is a large DPS increase, actively helping the group.

You can easily plan around that by having a tank with more toughness in the group

Yes, but we do know that raid difficulty isn’t trivial, healing power scaling and base heals are changing, and that raid encounters are designed with damage you can’t “just dodge”

Fluffball.8307:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Dunno where everyone’s getting the idea that Zealots is going to be the best, but clerics is the way to go. You don’t play a druid in raids to do damage, you play one to heal and gimping your healing to do some terrible DPS is not worth the trade off

It depends on how much healing is needed. It might make sense to take a damage support druid that uses sword or LB or something for when the party is ok, and then goes healer mode when things aren’t ok. If the party does fine without a ton of healing most of the time (which seems likely to me but we’ll see) then a pure healing druid is actually the wasted spot.

I think you could play off that with other professions too. Have several guys that can get the party back to full health, but are mostly there for damage, sort of like the current zerker staff eles.

You could potentially just heal through the damage instead of dodging or avoiding it which is also a DPS loss. Even in current content, playing with a cleric player opens up new strategies and makes for potentially cleaner/consistent runs, but people are just close minded and so obsessed with speed and want to continue playing the same way they play dungeons in raids, which if tuned correctly shouldn’t work.

Also, you may laugh but the toughness will help in progression when you don’t know the encounters.

Dunno where everyone’s getting the idea that Zealots is going to be the best, but clerics is the way to go. You don’t play a druid in raids to do damage, you play one to heal and gimping your healing to do some terrible DPS is not worth the trade off

Yeah, they’re not ready and they’re nerfing dungeons so that’d people will buy HoT.

/tinfoil hat.

Lord Kuru.3685:

They can’t even get their one big centerpiece – the raid – out in time for HoT. Anet’s simply are not capable of bringing out more fractal content in the near future (or even medium future) — even if they wanted to .. which I have doubts about.

Delaying raids a few weeks happens in other MMOs as well to allow players to not feel like they have to rush through the xpac content to get ready for raids. If they were ready at release then all the serious raiders and world first racers would have to grind to max level (or in this case, grind out masteries) ASAP. Off the top of my head, Heavensward and Warlords of Draenor did it recently.

Or we can just be cynical and say it’s not ready lol, that works too I guess.

reapex.8546:

reapex.8546:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Here’s another problem I have with dungeons instead of fractals:
I’m limited to low level ones and also don’t know what fractals im getting other than swamp. I could bring him into a high level one and 4 man it, but that obviously wouldn’t be very fun for either of us.

Time to learn new content, I guess.

Your post sounded like your friend wasn’t used to fractals. I was hinting at, that you could teach your friend the swamp fractal just like it was a normal dungeon. You could help them scale up to reach your level and both of you could learn fractals overtime. Fractals low level scales are perfect for beginners and have more forgiving learning curve just like dungeons.

I am teaching him the low level fractals? Running 10s and 20s isn’t very fun or rewarding to me, but I do it cause hes a buddy of mine. There’s pretty much no way for him to catch up to me at this point since I’ll be levelling up fractals inbetween HoT launch and raid release.

reapex.8546:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Here’s another problem I have with dungeons instead of fractals:

Yesterday I was teaching a RL friend who came back into the game some instanced content. I can easily take him into any dungeon and know exactly what path I’m doing, as well as having no AR or gear requirements. Can’t say the same for fractals as I’m limited to low level ones and also don’t know what fractals im getting other than swamp. I could bring him into a high level one and 4 man it, but that obviously wouldn’t be very fun for either of us.

Time to learn new content, I guess.

Why are you telling me that? My point is that Fractals and Raids have a high barrier to entry for new and returning players to the game. Fractals have gear requirement (and raids too, to an extent) and Raids are obviously not meant for new players and have full ascended gear as a recommendation. Dungeons filled that void of 5 man content for players that cannot commit to a raid team or do not have the gear for fractals. I can’t bring my casual friends into progression raiding or lvl 50+ fractals.

When you’re doing progression content, speed running, clean kills and fastest times possible are kind of irrelevant. All that matters is if the boss dies. Doesn’t matter if you do it in 5 minutes or 8 minutes as long as you get the kill and it is consistently repeatable every week. Personally, I prefer safer, consistent strategies when you are potentially pulling a boss hundreds of times trying to get your first kill.

I’m also not entirely convinced the content will ever be on super farm easy mode. In other MMOs, you just get better gear and naturally shorten fight times by doing way more damage. To get faster kill times in GW2 you would have to optimize your strategies and play near perfectly. Worst case scenario, I have plenty of Berserker Gear from vanilla GW2 content.

Wiping on farm bosses in raids is a pretty terrible feeling in general.

Here’s another problem I have with dungeons instead of fractals:

Yesterday I was teaching a RL friend who came back into the game some instanced content. I can easily take him into any dungeon and know exactly what path I’m doing, as well as having no AR or gear requirements. Can’t say the same for fractals as I’m limited to low level ones and also don’t know what fractals im getting other than swamp. I could bring him into a high level one and 4 man it, but that obviously wouldn’t be very fun for either of us.

Clerics so you can have that buffer for mistakes. Yes, you can get good and learn the encounter but it is a lot harder for 10 players to play optimally for 10 minutes than it is for half as many players to not die in a 10 second fight for 3 year old content.

If you can meet the enrage timer with a few players running non-dps gear, then why not? This only applies to raids. If for whatever reason I’m playing Druid in old content or open world than i’d probably use Berserker or Zealots.

Juvenile Jaguar
Juvenile Jungle Stalker

Wetpaw.3487:

Eternal Guardian world first according to the Druid in the video was done in Cleric.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=thS431kCOcg

It was actually NA not EG. The chatbox cover mentions the guild.

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_S/A_LB_Spotter

http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Ranger_-_A/T_Condition

Kaiyanwan.8521:

ANet opened the can of worms know as “raids”. If you think “play the way you want” is a thing there you might be in for a surprise.

That depends entirely on how they tune it. I can easily play the way I want I want in WoW’s raid finder or FFXIV’s duty finder. In harder, progression content, I definitely want to min/max as much as possible to avoid wiping 250 times to stupid kitten.

I’m thinking Zealots too, just dunno how to get the trinkets. Also getting expensive to make atm. Either that or clerics but who knows maybe ppl will play Berserker Druid.

I thought of almost this exact same build, except with Zealots Armor/Weapons instead. Reason being that I actually want to kill stuff when I’m alone. I did design it with open world PvE and Raids in mind, and if more toughness was required, then I’d go the full Clerics route

Boomkin, since they’re always great.

I doubt raids will play like current dungeons/fractals: Stealthing past everything and Ice Bow-ing bosses in 5 seconds.

More than likely there’ll be a safe spot exploit that they wont bother to fix and then they’ll abandon raids and not update them after a few months

Doesn’t mean anything, most groups will still run a 2nd ele instead of the ranger.

A/T Sinister vs. Zerker is more about the content you’re doing rather than theoretical DPS. IMO, zerker is generally better for most content provided that you are comfortable playing with sword, and Clarion Bond/Zephyr’s speed are much stronger in weaker group comps. Sinister suffers from ramp up time, being useless against structures, enemies moving out of bonfire and enemies being immune to burning. The main thing that makes me not run it as often is it’s reliance on expensive food.

Pernix talks about it in more detail: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Krn3R6UX98

Jerus.4350:

Taku.6352:

Jerus.4350:

Taku.6352:

Nerf ranger plox

Not to mention this was with just rabid ammy since sinister is not in pvp.

(also ignore the audio)

no pet swap? (is it because it’s all buffed up and not worth losing that?) yeah condi ranger is pretty awesome.

No reason to swap pets, no Marskmanship for clarion bond or zephyr’s speed in BM

Bleh true, I’ve only been dabbling and have been doing it out of habit

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Poison_Master

If they do something about about the 5 target buff limit in HoT, Rangers have a good chance at being included in the meta compositions in raids.

Right now they’re fine in PvE, but you’ll never find yourself (or anyone else) saying we need/want a ranger for this party.

Sinister hands down for Dungeons and Fractals.

Killer Instinct.2058:

What if you are a group irl friends and none of you wants to heal?

Genuinely curious because I’ve never played a trinity game before.

Then nobody heals and you queue up for a dungeon with as many DPS as you are allowed. That means you may end up doing the dungeon without your entire group of friends.

Quarktastic.1027:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Well first of all, in a PUG I wouldn’t trust a random ranger running whatever PHIW build that usually doesn’t have frost spotter. I’m much more likely to get a somewhat decent ele than a ranger running the right zerker or sinister build. The 2nd ele makes Ice Bow up more often and makes managing blasts much easier. You’d be silly to think the difference between organized group and LFG PUGs is only 10-30 seconds per boss/trash fight. This is especially noticeable in dungeons like CM, Arah and High level fractals. My farm group does all 3 CM paths in 15-18 minutes (which is okay or relatively slow by dungeon standards). If I were to PUG that same path with my Ranger, it’d take 10-15 minutes per path b/c of subpotimal tactics and people failing the stealth skips. On my ele, i’d atleast be able to contribute a lot more than 1 smoke field blast and make it less likely that we’d fail. The 2 eles do a lot more than just camp fire and drop Ice Bows. Eg. Glyph of Storms is helpful if you’re pulling the entire hallway + champ in CoE.

I don’t PUG that often, but when I do I usually advertise for a war/thief/guard/ele/ele group in Fractals. Rangers sometimes join and I ask them to switch or kick. I’m not going to just roll with it when they can’t even bother to read my LFG.

I’d save on average, my organized groups runs are done in 2/3 the time of PUGs b/c of superrior compositions and tactics (And DPS b/c no one might stacks or uses food/pots in PUGs). If you’re doing a tour, these 4-10 minutes per path add up very quickly, but it’s irrelevant if you’re only doing 1 dungeon.

Not all of us as ignorant meta sheep, some of us are former speed runners/“Dungeon tour-ers” (not PUG speed runs).

Blasting the thief’s smoke field is completely redundant, as thieves can easily hit the stealth cap on their own.

Honestly, you have the meta sheep mindset, which makes you just about as enjoyable to be around as one of the meta sheep.

If you use smokescreen or sacrifice your signet utilities then yeah, they can. Blackpowder blasts are faster when you dont need SR for certain skips.

Well first of all, in a PUG I wouldn’t trust a random ranger running whatever PHIW build that usually doesn’t have frost spotter. I’m much more likely to get a somewhat decent ele than a ranger running the right zerker or sinister build. The 2nd ele makes Ice Bow up more often and makes managing blasts much easier. You’d be silly to think the difference between organized group and LFG PUGs is only 10-30 seconds per boss/trash fight. This is especially noticeable in dungeons like CM, Arah and High level fractals. My farm group does all 3 CM paths in 15-18 minutes (which is okay or relatively slow by dungeon standards). If I were to PUG that same path with my Ranger, it’d take 10-15 minutes per path b/c of subpotimal tactics and people failing the stealth skips. On my ele, i’d atleast be able to contribute a lot more than 1 smoke field blast and make it less likely that we’d fail. The 2 eles do a lot more than just camp fire and drop Ice Bows. Eg. Glyph of Storms is helpful if you’re pulling the entire hallway + champ in CoE.

I don’t PUG that often, but when I do I usually advertise for a war/thief/guard/ele/ele group in Fractals. Rangers sometimes join and I ask them to switch or kick. I’m not going to just roll with it when they can’t even bother to read my LFG.

I’d save on average, my organized groups runs are done in 2/3 the time of PUGs b/c of superrior compositions and tactics (And DPS b/c no one might stacks or uses food/pots in PUGs). If you’re doing a tour, these 4-10 minutes per path add up very quickly, but it’s irrelevant if you’re only doing 1 dungeon.

Not all of us as ignorant meta sheep, some of us are former speed runners/“Dungeon tour-ers” (not PUG speed runs).

Even if they nerfed Ice Bow, a 2nd Ele would still be better than a Ranger. They are more than just Ice Bow dispensers and you don’t need to be going for a record run for them to be an improvement.

A dinosaur.

15 chars.

Clarion Bond also makes warhorn obsolete. It’s still good to carry around for blasting lightning/fire/smoke fields out of combat.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

ps turtle go check spirit cooldowns and the ranger buffs go where the ranger goes , there is always enough time to set up a spirit and if its placed in a Stupid location which can be killed, that is a player issue not a skill issue.

PS. I never mentioned it being killed. Even if it’s killed it’s still active for a little bit. I’m talking about placing a spirit for the trash, swapping out your utility when its down then its on cd for 20s. It also has an activation delay of around 3-5s if you include the cast time. That 25s is enough time for you to kill a boss or not have it up for the next trash pack. Example of this is CoF p1 if you use it on the trash before the first boss. You can also just not use it on the trash but that’s part of the problem.

Spirit immobility is sometimes a problem with how fast things die in dungeons. The actual uptime of Frost/Sun Spirit are poor compared to banners because you can’t just pick it up and move it.

you don’t use a flipping spirit vs trash they die fast enough the ranger himself may as well just Pet swap Quickness AA them to death , why waste a spirit again player issue.

Then you’re missing out on half the benefit of even bringing a ranger. A warrior has 0 issues using their banners on trash.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

ps turtle go check spirit cooldowns and the ranger buffs go where the ranger goes , there is always enough time to set up a spirit and if its placed in a Stupid location which can be killed, that is a player issue not a skill issue.

PS. I never mentioned it being killed. Even if it’s killed it’s still active for a little bit. I’m talking about placing a spirit for the trash, swapping out your utility when its down then its on cd for 20s. It also has an activation delay of around 3-5s if you include the cast time. That 25s is enough time for you to kill a boss or not have it up for the next trash pack. Example of this is CoF p1 if you use it on the trash before the first boss. You can also just not use it on the trash but that’s part of the problem.

Spirit immobility is sometimes a problem with how fast things die in dungeons. The actual uptime of Frost/Sun Spirit are poor compared to banners because you can’t just pick it up and move it.