(edited by Vayne.8563)
I believe the people saying the map is dead are trying to use that to give emphasis to their own negative opinion of HOT without regard for what’s actually happening on HoT maps.
I believe that at least some of the complaints happen because ANet’s mega-server algorithms quite literally kill the map. Sometimes the closing-map experience can chain. Ironically, it’s less likely to chain when there are fewer map copies to begin with.
I don’t know how much time you spend in HOT but I literally have been in HoT for 30 hours within the past week and I have yet to find a single dead map, without using LFG at all.
I’ve been helping new guildies get their elite spec unlocked among other things.
I’m not saying there are a million people at every event, but there are very very few events where there aren’t people enough to do the events. This doesn’t equal a dead map.
I’m specifically taking note of what I’m doing and when due to the claims of certain posters. The assertion that the zones are dead are pretty much wrong. The only time I’ve encountered a dead zone recently was when I didn’t reboot right away and a bunch of other people did. Aside from that, dead zones are the exception not the rule.
Edit: As an example, right now I’ve done the entire scar lane event chain with strangers. We’re on the next to last event. There are five of us. There are a lot of events in this zone. Not sure how anyone could call this dead. No LFG, no changing maps. Just happened upon it.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
The problem with leveling the masteries for casual players is information that is not available at the time of decision. Consider that casual players aren’t expected to level all masteries. Consider the game recognizes this and thus is designed in a way that there are important masteries and not so important masteries. Consider the game provides enough easy mastery points for the important masteries.
But how on earth should a new player, a casual player, know which mastery is important or not so important? How on earth he should know that completely maxing the gliding mastery is very important and has a deep impact on his gameplay, while not even starting Exalted Lore isn’t closing too many doors. This is not transmitted by the game. A new player simply starts every mastery, because he doesn’t know the impact.
It’s made even worse by the game messages while playing HoT maps: “you need xyz mastery to eat mushrooms, to use this item, to talk to this NPC, to open that chest, etc…” The player is confused deliberately and is made leveling the wrong masteries.
So It gets slower and slower while he levels all, then the easy mastery points exhaust, and in the end he isn’t able to reach something like Ley Line gliding.
I completely agree. So many answers are “use the wiki” but everything I’ve read indicates that the VAST majority of MMO players do not consult outside sources. This might be due to time constraints or because they don’t even realize that it is necessary to consult an outside source if they aren’t doing something really difficult like raiding. I mean how would they even know that they should consult the wiki before training Masteries? I’ve never encountered a Mastery Point type system in any other MMO. If you need to train skills for your character it usually only requires XP, maybe after doing something to open the path initially. Most games with finite points to distribute is at character creation and you know exactly how many points you have and whether you will ever receive any more.
In GW2 there is no system to tell you how many MP there are in the game or how many are left to acquire. So there is no way to even understand that you should be concerned about how to spend them.
And, the wiki doesn’t really help you decide. It tells you what the various Masteries let you do but it doesn’t help you to know how important each of those things are. It would take a lot of research if you didn’t know about everything in the game yet. Like go to Itzel Lore: none of the individual masteries say whether they are important. Then it says: “Additional uses: Bouncing Mushrooms to continue In Their Footsteps story step; Itzel Leadership for Orders backpack collections”. Ok, Bouncing Mushrooms to continue the story seems important, but what is “Orders backpack collections” (if you’re new)? No link so I type “orders backpack” in the wiki, the only reference directs me back to the same reference. Now how do I figure out if “orders backpack” is important? I google “gw2 orders backpack” and get a lot of backpack pages but nothing clear. So using the wiki isn’t that helpful either.
I don’t expect to most people playing an MMO to go to the wiki to look stuff up but I do see in game that most players, the large majority, do have a guild tag. I know in my guild we didn’t get many complaints about people training the wrong masteries because people made use of their guild.
It’s really bad that a small percentage of the population randomly threw points around without a clue as to where to put them, but my experience, and I have a lot of it, shows that most people put it into gliding anyway, which is where most people need it. It helps that if they don’t change anything gliding in the default.
And I’m sure a small percentage of people got caught off guard, but I’ve been around a long time and I’ve seen a whole lot of complaints about HOT and this is one I’ve very rarely seen.
I guarantee you if there was a bigger problem we’d have heard more about it.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
by being " Dungeon Master " we want to get more better good equipments or something special. Arena net hear us !
Not going to happen. Anet is supporting fractals over dungeons as the current five man instanced content. They don’t WANT to encourage dungeon play beyond what’s already there.
Also I’m not sure who this “we” is, unless you mean you and two other guys in this thread. I’m not sure Anet should spend a lot of time revising rewards for a handful of people. I get you feel strongly about this but I’ve only seen this topic brought up very rarely and I do pay attention.
This isn’t a hot button topic that everyone agrees on. I’m relatively sure it’s not going to change.
Ask three friends and you get three different answers.
If there were less wrong ways to go, it would help. The game is open at the wrong places.
And yes, of course you can play without leveling masteries. But it isn’t fun. And players play the game for fun, I suppose.
The bottom line is, if you ask three friends, NONE of them will tell you max exalted lore, nuhoch lore, or itzel lore. This isn’t realiistic
In fact, virtually everyone I know maxes gliding first now, before anything else, completely ignoring stuff like nuhoch lore, but even back then, I don’t remember anyone ever advising anyone to level the other masteries first.
For as long back as you can look for advice, and the advice has been there, everyone has said level the stuff you need for the stories and gliding. You can get three different opinions maybe on what to level after that, but that’s a completely different story. Sorry I’m not buying this at all.
The problem with leveling the masteries for casual players is information that is not available at the time of decision. Consider that casual players aren’t expected to level all masteries. Consider the game recognizes this and thus is designed in a way that there are important masteries and not so important masteries. Consider the game provides enough easy mastery points for the important masteries.
But how on earth should a new player, a casual player, know which mastery is important or not so important? How on earth he should know that completely maxing the gliding mastery is very important and has a deep impact on his gameplay, while not even starting Exalted Lore isn’t closing too many doors. This is not transmitted by the game. A new player simply starts every mastery, because he doesn’t know the impact.
It’s made even worse by the game messages while playing HoT maps: “you need xyz mastery to eat mushrooms, to use this item, to talk to this NPC, to open that chest, etc…” The player is confused deliberately and is made leveling the wrong masteries.
So It gets slower and slower while he levels all, then the easy mastery points exhaust, and in the end he isn’t able to reach something like Ley Line gliding.
Are you saying a casual player is incapable of using the wiki or asking a friend, or doing minimal research? Because it sounds like it.
In my experience casual players come in many shapes and sizes. Some of them ask questions or read a website. Plenty of casuals do go to dulfy. Obviously some don’t as well.
But you can play this game without leyline gliding at all. It’s absolutely possible.
Consider every time you do dungeon paths you get rewards, this is fine the way it is. The title is the real reward.
You know when a lot of us got that title and that reward, the dungeon reward was a lot less than it is now. We didn’t even have champ bags in the beginning.
If you want the achievement do the content. The content is it’s own reward. If you don’t like dungeons, don’t bother with the achievement. Problem solved.
I mean if you want to go through every single achievement and pick out every single one with a reward that doesn’t seem equal to the task, you’d have a much longer post.
Glad you’re having fun.
As something additional you can do, and something I used to, I turn off map markers using the option on the map, and only play doing what my character sees and hears in the world. It’s fantastic.
A lot of this thread boils down to this:
Players complain about dead maps.
Players are wrong, and are given tools and advice to help them find filled maps.
Players refuse to make use of said tools and advice, and proceeds to complain about maps being dead.Repeat.
I like how you write that, find 2 people who agree when Silmar Alech.4305 wrote a point which will never be addressed.
Example they used was getting better at fractals, you go threw the grind because you see and feel yourself getting better.
A HUGE AMOUNT OF PLAYERS do not find enjoyment on playing meta maps.
There is a group of players that do boss runs, guess what alot of players dont do boss runs.
Masterys and HOT are boss runs, guess what alot of people are not gonna like that. Its pretty simply to understand but a few people will make the arguments because they like doing boss runs.
Its hard listening to people of a different point of view and actually listening to there complaints.
Please many of you arguments are valid in that mastery points are not hard to get, that maps are available once you know the times of the maps and use the LFG tool.
Thats great but actually address people who want to play the game and didnt put mastery points into gliding and now need ley line gliding for raids or to play with friends who are ahead and have the XP and masterys.
I dont think its any surprise that WvW took a huge hit when HOT came as well as PvP and many of the casual PvE players dont like HOT which is why that thread “New Player, Sad Player. Expansion ruined it.” is still on the front page with 28k views with 1/2 the players saying they agree.
Many people could agree that GW2 core needed more difficult content for those seeking it.
But Anet used HOT to do that content and just ruined the game for 2 side community and some of its casual PvE player base.
There are so many mastery points in each zone that aren’t boss runs, it’s not even funny. There may well be as many boss run mastery points as non-boss run mastery points. I don’t like boss runs and never have. Fortunately there are strong boxes, which aren’t boss runs and can be soloed for the most part. There are communes which are not boss runs and can be soloed, for the most part. There are achievements like gliding under the 3 arches in AB in the city which can be soloed. There are achievements like stealthing to get a chest in TD, which can be soloed. There are adventures, some of which are quite easy, which can be soloed and aren’t boss runs.
What I hear, is people saying I don’t like mini-games, and I don’t like playing with other people and I don’t like boss runs and I don’t like hard content and I don’t like having to wait for stuff.
The more stuff you don’t like the less likely you’re going to like anything in any game.
I had a guildie who has since left the game who didn’t like PvP at all. Not even a little. Didn’t like boss fights or hard content. Didn’t like dungeons or Fractals. Didn’t like jumping or jumping puzzles.
Her entire game while she was here was completing maps on different alts, because she didn’t like anything else. You had to pry her out of the open world to even try an easy dungeon. You couldn’t get her into a fractal, or any type of PvP.
Sure she would have had trouble getting mastery points, even though she could level to 80 and be happy.
The fact is, there were four lines in HoT besides raids. Gliding, Itzel lore, Exalted Lore and Nuhoch Lore. If you weren’t going to play HOT you didn’t really need any of them. But if you did play HOT you needed only a handful of points.
If you kept getting points at that point and just kept throwing them into things randomly. that’s a problem, because it should have been obvious by then that you can’t go back. As a player of a game, one of the simplest things anyone could have done was ask, or do minimal research to figure out what to level, particularly keeping in mind that core Tyria points were complete seperate. I leave raids out of it because raids themselves have enough points to level raids.
So between achievements, exploration masteries, adventures, living story masteries, and boss runs, there should be some path to get all the masteries you need, particularly with the new zones, if not before. And if you’re unwilling to do any of it, or don’t like any of it, I’m not really sure what can be done.
A lot of this thread boils down to this:
Players complain about dead maps.
Players are wrong, and are given tools and advice to help them find filled maps.
Players refuse to make use of said tools and advice, and proceeds to complain about maps being dead.Repeat.
Actually that’s almost what I’m saying, except not in relationship to dead. I don’t get on many dead maps, using no LFG, no external website. Most of the time just bopping around, I don’t end up on dead maps.
My advice to get into meta maps, if the meta is your main concern, is to use LFG and a timer site. But to just play, I barely ever have to change maps at all, and the maps still aren’t dead.
It’s likely an issue of perception. If you’re comfortable with the HoT maps and enjoy playing them, you’re not likely to notice an issue. However, if you have difficulty surviving on your own and get lost easily, being alone even for a few minutes is much more of an issue. Given that, it’s perhaps not surprising that players who dislike HoT tend to view the HoT maps as “dead” while players who enjoy HoT do not.
A failure to understand how megaserver and LFG work is likely a major contributing factor as well. If you didn’t know why it was happening, repeatedly being prompted to change maps due to low population is sure going to make it seem like HoT is full of dead maps!
Being alone for a few minutes doesn’t make a dead map. If it does, then every single map in the game is dead and has been for years. It’s simply not the case. The word dead has a meaning. The words I can’t survive for three minutes and feel alone and vulnerable is quite a different meaning.
I believe the people saying the map is dead are trying to use that to give emphasis to their own negative opinion of HOT without regard for what’s actually happening on HoT maps.
A lot of this thread boils down to this:
Players complain about dead maps.
Players are wrong, and are given tools and advice to help them find filled maps.
Players refuse to make use of said tools and advice, and proceeds to complain about maps being dead.Repeat.
Actually that’s almost what I’m saying, except not in relationship to dead. I don’t get on many dead maps, using no LFG, no external website. Most of the time just bopping around, I don’t end up on dead maps.
My advice to get into meta maps, if the meta is your main concern, is to use LFG and a timer site. But to just play, I barely ever have to change maps at all, and the maps still aren’t dead.
Well it’s certainly easier to max your points now since you can earn more achievements in the new Living Story zones than you need to buy the new masteries from those zones. It should help make it a lot easier for those who hate doing adventures.
That said there are a couple of adventures that are very easy to do, and one that’s even easy to get gold in (maybe two or three). I don’t have gold in most of the adventures don’t have silver in others, but I’m sitting on 186 mastery points.
But we’ve seen more than one person who just started HoT post that the zones are quire busy, much to their surprise after reading some of the stuff on these forums.
I get that some people don’t like HoT, or the mastery system, but that doesn’t make either of them bad, and it’s absolutely possible to get the mastery points you need.
Again if anyone is on a US server and they need help getting into HOT or getting HOT masteries or unlocking their elite spec, I’d be happy to help them.
I would say all except for the CoF, CoE, and Arah. The explorable mode of those have been done solo, but if you aren’t experienced in doing something like that, I’d say to not try just 2 manning the story. Arah is difficult because a lot of it requires the full party, at least from what I remember.
There is no story mode of Arah anymore. It’s simply a personal story step now and can be soloed.
I’m not mixing them up. You’re focusing solely on one aspect of them, which may or may not matter to someone over the visuals, and claiming it to be better because of it.
Not claiming. It is a fact. The new tools are objectively, demonstrably, better.
When you focus solely on the bonus UM, while ignoring everything else, they are. When you include everything else, that’s not necessarily true as it’ll vary from person to person.
Fine, then they are mechanically better. Which makes those P2W accusations uncomfortably close to being real. (yeah yeah, gold->gems, don’t really need or whatever counter-fluff) I’m not actually claiming P2W, but I can see how it’d be construed.
As it is, I’m not getting the UM set because I already have unlimited tools, and the ROI to paying 787g to get them is ridiculously low. Also, Watchwork, which has done more than pay for itself since I bought it when it was first released.
And I appreciate my harvesting tool’s improved gathering speed, which is also mechanically better. It also doesn’t make obnoxious clown/o-tron noises…
Aesthetics may play into me buying a glitterbomb one anyway if it goes on sale. The UM isn’t so important to me there.But I want that logging axe. It is, again, mechanically better, and I don’t overly care what it looks like so long as it can help me fast-forward my alts into stat-choice-selected Ascended trinkets.
All that said, I’m not bitter at ANet for releasing these. Actually, I wouldn’t mind if every tool gained some kind of bonus. Maybe go back through the purchases of the basic tools, drop those to 800gem and return the excess 200gem as an act of good will.
Sounds a bit twisted and P2W-ish, but I don’t mind giving ANet the cash, especially if they revamp the UI to make gathering tools and their infusions worthwhile.
It MIGHT be construed as pay to win if you couldn’t already get unbound gathering tools with karma, but you can.
Thus there’s no advantage except for the convenience of unlimited.
Anything is possible. We will soon see.
I would avoid the ‘just another broken promise’ taint that would incur. But, I’m not ArenaNet. I’m sure they know best. =)
No one cares if you break a promise that works out better for them. Like if you tell your kids you’re taking them to McDonalds and you take them to Disneyworld instead, they’re not likely to complain.
Anet told is straight out there would be no gliding in the core zones and then they implemented it.
And yes, there were some complaints over that, but they were dwarfed by the people who appreciated it.
If you spent a few days in pvp while your friends spent that time in pve, how would you expect to join them in Orr, or a later game dungeon, or anything of the sort?
Use the bug in Bloodtide Coast to get to Straits of Devestation directly. lol
Do you think the Devs won’t honor what they stated previously about expansions?
Eeek, if they don’t, I think it will be another pre-expansion release bad press situation.
I suppose one never knows, but it doesn’t seem likely to me that they would want that bad press again.
I think anyone that says something two years ago, can change their mind if the situation changes. It’s entire possible that saying to people we could have sold the expansion for 50 but we decided to sell it for 20 and not include HoT would mean people buying HoT and hte expansion are paying the same price as the expansion.
And some people will complain but of course, there are always people who complain. However most of us have already bought HOT so most of us are benefiting from that, thus good publicity.
I solved the problem by making a portable mystic forge conduit.
If you’re on a US server, hit me up in game. I can help you get your elite spec unlocked.
I’m the other way around. I’d rather not have a double dose of masteries to level all at once time> I’d like my gliding masteries and living story masteries trained before the next expansion comes out.
Maybe some people are different, but I would find three sets of masteries all at the same time overwhelming.
Likewise I’d like autoloot unlocked before the new expansion came out.
That’s a fair point, but what I was suggesting wouldn’t leave you dealing with three sets together. I would expect anyone who pre-purchases the 2nd expansion would get HoT straight away, so there’d be a few months between now and then to complete achievements for core mastery points even if the masteries themselves can’t be completed yet, then the time between pre-purchase and release (presumably at least a couple of month) to deal with HoT masteries before the 2nd expansion releases. Then again, I am making assumptions here, so nothing is guaranteed.
It’s just a lot of assumptions that I’m leery about. For all we know Anet will not include HOT and they’ll sell it at a very cheap price instead, making the price of HOT and the new expansion the price of the old one. No one really knows what’s going to happen.
I think it’s worth buying HoT if you’re a free to play player, just for the log in rewards between now and then though.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
I got up to this one this morning and now understand why GW2’s popularity circled the drain.
Wow. Just wow.
For starters – only a very teensy, tiny minority of players (eg. raiders) enjoy this style of content. Supposedly kick kitten evil champions who are strong but cannot deviate from a stupid pattern. And you locked solo story content behind this. Not clever, ANet. Not clever.
Secondly, it doesn’t need tuning so much as a swift kick to the nads. Even just the first white mantle ambush is nuts. Then Adrienne is absurd. Your companions do very little to help and there’s so many adds.
Die, wait a minute or so while a companion rezzes me, instantly – yes instantly – die again. Repeat. Repeat. Exit mission to repair armour (which is plenty good btw). And again.
Part of my problem is likely location. Australian latency means I have a good 200-250 ms handicap when it comes to getting out of attack telegraphs. Adrienne in particular is impossible to avoid. I see her attack, attempt to dodge but am hit by the attack anyway.
I’m disinclined to attempt it again. Even if I get persevere and get past it, games are meant to be enjoyable. This is not enjoyable and I have to imagine that there’s more content like this beyond it.
This game’s initial and substantial success was built on being the very opposite of this.
I don’t raid, I don’t like raids and I don’t particularly like boss fights. If you died repeatedly before the end you need to learn the game better.
I can see dying a couple of times, maybe, but if you know what a break bar is, and you have your special skill unlocked, I can’t imagine how you found it that hard.
Don’t run out into the middle of groups., pick them off from the edges. Use the landscape. Pull a few at a time.
The NPCs won’t help kill them but they do help tank. Enemies will stop on the NPCs letting you kill the guys around the edges. Every time some die, pull a few more.
It’s not impossible. It’s not even hard. And it’s nothing at all like raid quality.
The last boss has definite issues though, even though I have little problem doing him on most professions.
Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.
That’s how I feel about all those mini games in HoT. I will eventually do them for the mastery points, but they are a duty and not fun.
Last time the karka mini game was a daily. I entered the arena and we were two (at times three) players who just sat down at the side and waited until it’s over. I tried to enter and leave immediately, but you have to finish to make it count as daily. You also have to use a skill sometimes to not get kicked.
Most stupid thing in the whole game. But the fourth daily was something worse.
So yes, the fun is not the activity itself, but the reward. If both is fun, that’s great, and most of the things in GW2 are like that for me. Otherwise I wouldn’t be here. But as you said, something that is fun for one group is despised by another. I don’t mind some grind., but many Tyria Mastery Points are no fun to get.
The problem with arcade games is that IMO they don’t belong in an RPG. Sure, a lot of people like them, but a lot of people like solitaire – that doesn’t mean Anet should put solitaire in GW2. If people like arcade games, or solitaire, or Mario Bros they should go play those games which exist elsewhere.
Nothing wrong with putting arcade games in an RPG as long as the rewards for them are seperated from everything else. I have no problem with Sanctum Sprint because it’s self contained. It interferes with nothing. If I want the achievements for it I can do it, but if I ignore it, it’s really no cost to me.
Adventures are a different animal.
HoT Price Feedback + Base game included [merged]
in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns
Posted by: Vayne.8563
Do players who bought the game at release, at full price, get anything at all?
GW2 going F2P and still having to pay 29 dollars for an expansion is not fair at all.They got a free character slot if they pre-ordered.
Paying $29 for an expansion is more than fair considering they typically cost much more.
i preordered, no free slot.
try again.If you met the requirements, you can contact the CS Team via the ‘Support’ link above/below.
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/
Good luck.
Keep in mind the character slot was for prepurchase, not preorder. That is paying in full from Anet, not putting $5 down on the game at a local game store.
I’d rather not have a double dose of masteries to level all at once time> I’d like my gliding masteries and living story masteries trained before the next expansion comes out.
There’ll likely be at least 2 months between pre-purchase and launch.
Assuming their plans haven’t changed, anyone buying HoT right now will likely be refunded anyways, if they pre-purchase. Just don’t buy HoT from 3rd parties, since they’re not eligible. However, I’d expect them to drop their 1 box model when they announce the expansion.
I wouldn’t assume that people could get a refund if they buy now, and I’d be very scared to suggest it. My best guess is that the $30 to level that stuff before the expansion comes out would be worth it to me.
We don’t have a release date for Expac 2 yet.
Furthermore, if they don’t buy HoT now, they cannot currently unlock Living World Season 3 and will have to buy that separately later, which is also costly. (Then again, LWS3 is almost over, so they will have to pay for that either way.)
In the end, it’s the OP’s decision. No need to quarrel over it.
That’s not true – you only need HoT to play season 3, not to unlock it. Anyone who logged in at the appropriate time to unlock a chapter will be able to play it for free if they buy HoT at a later date.
My advice would be, if you’re not champing at the bit to play HoT, wait and buy the next expansion. As stated above, pre-purchase is likely to be along in a couple of months (at a guess, at or shortly after the release of the next chapter, so July/August) and that should also include HoT. Why pay twice when you don’t need to?
I’m the other way around. I’d rather not have a double dose of masteries to level all at once time> I’d like my gliding masteries and living story masteries trained before the next expansion comes out.
Maybe some people are different, but I would find three sets of masteries all at the same time overwhelming.
Likewise I’d like autoloot unlocked before the new expansion came out.
The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.
No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.
And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. As in for “showing the ropes” I wasn’t talking about HoT maps. I personally think that for any new player starting the game, it feels motivating to see players appearing as “vets” (due to their skin) still go back in core tyria. And that could only really happen if Anet devs, in the first place, did not make HoT content a carbon copy of how core maps operated.
I’m still not understanding – you think that vets wouldn’t go back to core Tyria no matter what style the expansion maps were? We still have dailies…
Didn’t ArenaNet kinda tell us they didn’t want the Vets in core when they killed the Champ Trains?
If memory serves me correctly folks were whining about the trains (Vocal Minority) so they killed it. Seems like the maps started losing population shortly afterwards.
They certainly didn’t want the Champ Train, but that isn’t the same as not wanting vets. By having dailies in core maps they do invite everyone to go back. But because events are spread throughout the map, instead of everyone going to a single champ, it is less toxic.
Well I afraid that’s what happened, and to be honest myself and my friends and Guild mates only go through there when we level a new character. Even with a few more events thrown in it just isn’t worthwhile.
Sorry not trying to be negative but when I have time to play I want to maximize my return for time used.
I’ll redo a few dungeons 20 times before I will roam in the low level maps, just not worthwhile. Make it worthwhile and more Vets will return, until then…………………………………
they shouldnt be trying to get vets in starter zones, unless they like newbie playstyle
Do you really want them to incentivize the most hardcore people to hang out in the lowest easiest zones?
I was actually giving my response to Djinn in regards to them not wanting Champ Trains but wanting Vets to stay in the areas.
All I was saying is “if” they want Vets in the area they need to make it worthwhile for the Vet otherwise it will not happen, unless (as Vayne mentioned) the Vet is passing through in need of Mats for crafting something or doing dailies and Guild Missions.
Well there are far more vets than new people in my opinion so they probably don’t want vets to stay in those areas forever. What they have now, is a parade of people who are vets in those areas for short periods of time. Source, I’m often in those zones and virtually always see other vets on those zones.
Of course people who make a lot of legendaries spend more time in those zones, because they have to world complete on more than one character.
The HoT zones have people in them for similar reasons.
But here’s a way of doing it off the top of my head that I think might work more effectively at providing a sense of mastery and avoiding the base simplicity of “earn points, click button to unlock thing, earn more points” (granted, it would be more complicated to design):
Take, for instance, Lean Gliding. Rather than you unlocking it with XP and an unrelated adventure point, you unlock it by Lean Gliding. This might sound stupid at first, but bear with me here. You don’t get full Lean Gliding functionality at first. Instead, it costs a high amount of your gliding stamina and is high risk to use. The more you use it, the more progress you get on a bar, the less it costs in stamina with each use until you reach mastery.
Why? The idea is:
- Instead of being outright restricted, you get introduced to the ability by using it.
- You master it through using it, which means you learn as you go along, rather than being exposed to it all at once, and by the time you’ve mastered it in numbers, you’ll probably have a pretty good sense of how to make use of it, practically.The reason I say it would be way more complicated to do may be obvious to some. For example, the jump mushrooms don’t really lend themselves to such a system. They have a specific distance they leap you to and that’s it. Features like that (and the maps themselves) would have needed to be designed entirely differently from the ground up to support such a system.
Lean gliding is a part of “gliding” and the mushrooms are a part of Itzel Lore. Using those masteries (whatever specific skill that Anet put first) could progress you to the next, etc.
This would not be difficult to do as GW2 had EXACTLY that type of “mastery” when the game first started. If you wanted to use a sword, you got the first sword skill only and opened the next skills by using it! It was a great system but Anet decided to give us the NGE (or whatever they called it) and completely screwed the learning experience.
It worked with weapon skills, because you had to learn weapon skills fairly fast. Unfortunately, advancement of some kind has to happen in expansions or too big a percentage of the pl;ayers rush through ti and get completely bored and leave. Then they loudly claim there’s no game at all. Which is not any better than some people claiming it’s not good as it is.
The masteries were a bit overtuned and a lot of that has been fixed. It doesn’t take that long to get basic masteries any more, particularly because you can even farm XP for them (and even some mastery points) in the Living Story zones.
Of course comparing the NPE (New player experience) to Star Wars NGE, was always a stretch, and it’s been long since disproved since it’s long term affect on the game was negligible.
I were there today didn’t notice anything different. Of course, events do scale up if the Nolan’s Event was on, it’s hard to tell.
Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.
Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.
Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.
Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.
To say they are not work makes no sense even old school games where work all rpgs are more work then other games.
You’re arguing semantics, to no real point. The word work has several definitions. You’re referring to the one that would read, “Activity involving mental or physical effort done in order to achieve a purpose or result.” Vayne seems to be equating the word with a common view of work in a lot of cultures. Work is something you have to do to earn a living, whether it’s distasteful or not. He wants to use the word “effort” instead, but effort is synonymous with work.
I suggest though, that since RPG’s are Role-Playing GAMES, the proper word would be play, not work. RPG’s may require more play than other games. MMORPG’s certainly do, largely because of their business models and the expectations of the MMO fan base.
This exactly. Play is not work to me. If I kill a bunch of stuff in a game, and I’m having fun while doing it, I’m not working. I’m playing.
If I have to click f 1000 times in a row to level, that’s work because it’s not fun.
Oh kitten. Did the watchwork pick debacle teach them nothing?
Not sure this is the same. For one thing unbound magic is easy to get via the berry farm or just playing in the new zones. It’s not like watchwork sprockets which had very very limited methods of acquisition.
And you get get gathering tools in game with karma that allow you to gather unbound magic as well.
Not the same situation and I’m not seeing the same outcry.
The only complaint I’m seeing here is that it invalidates other gathering tools you’ve spend good gems on.
Try using LFG to find an active server. I go into Lake Doric relatively often and almost never have trouble doing events. It’s possible on a new map though.
In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.
This is my biggest issue with the Game. I can’t stand the mini games or jumping puzzles (others love them good for them) but they need to give everyone no matter their game play style the option to earn max Masteries. By max I mean to be able to completely fill all bars to the max.
Thanks
I agree that adventures should never have had mastery points locked behind them. However the occasional mastery point for a hard jumping puzzle would be okay as long as it was extraneous. That is there should be enough easier ways to get mastery points without playing arcade games.
There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.
And then there are people who have fun getting rewards.
Playing for rewards, doesn’t mean you have fun doing the content that gives the rewards. They’re seperate issues. I may have fun getting legendary armor, but I can’t stand raiding so it won’t happen. If I played for rewards, but didn’t like raiding, I suddenly wouldn’t like raiding.
Rewards aren’t content. People may very well like getting rewards. But the issue of whether they like what they have to do is a real one.
In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.
The majority who.plsy.mmorpgs understand rpgs in general.and enjoy having to do content to.get rewards of you want instant gratification for no work.then you should not be playing any rpg. And stop trying to push your agenda here to make it sound like so many think like you who play mmorpgs.
Nope don’t agree and I’ve been playing RPGs for years. I simply enjoy what I’m doing to get rewards in RPGs. And the second I stop enjoying them I lose interest in the game.
Some things are fun and some things aren’t. I’ve beaten every tombraider game, because I like that kind of gameplay, except for the last one because they introduced something in the game I don’t like.
Games are games, they’re not meant to be work. And work isn’t necessary the same as effort. I can work out in a gym if I enjoy working out. It’s still effort and I’m still enjoying it. I wouldn’t eat food that I hate every single day to get a free meal of food I like thoiugh.
Those who play RPGs? I’m relatively sure I’ve played more RPGs than most people, over a much longer span of time.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
The thing is, if they made HoT as easy as core maps, then all the people would just deplete core content and all the new players would have been leveling in empty maps with no veteran around to show them how the game operates.
No matter what style the expansion maps were, players would still be playing in those maps as well as core Tyria.
And in HoT there is no guarantee of a vet player showing anyone the ropes. I have been in several failed AB metas lately where after it failed many “vets” criticized people doing things wrong. My comment in Map Chat was “why didn’t you tell people what to do while the event was running instead of waiting until after it failed?”
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. As in for “showing the ropes” I wasn’t talking about HoT maps. I personally think that for any new player starting the game, it feels motivating to see players appearing as “vets” (due to their skin) still go back in core tyria. And that could only really happen if Anet devs, in the first place, did not make HoT content a carbon copy of how core maps operated.
I’m still not understanding – you think that vets wouldn’t go back to core Tyria no matter what style the expansion maps were? We still have dailies…
Didn’t ArenaNet kinda tell us they didn’t want the Vets in core when they killed the Champ Trains?
If memory serves me correctly folks were whining about the trains (Vocal Minority) so they killed it. Seems like the maps started losing population shortly afterwards.
And that’s a good thing. First of all they didn’t kill champ trains. They killed the Queendale champ train. They made zero changes to the Frostgorge champ train.
I think the Queendale champ train should have never existed at all. It was a bad thing for new players not a good thing.
I saw a guy once in Lornar’s Pass come into the zone and say where’s the train, because he leveled in Queensdale and didn’t know the game at all. That’s not the face to show new people.
The zone population was artificially increased by the champ train and it went back to normal. That’s a good thing. Still plenty of people roaming around Queensdale.
Lets just agree to disagree on the Champ Train. When the guy asked about the train in Lornar’s did you explain the difference? I hope so that’s goes a lot farther in helping folks.
Most folks that are leveling don’t return to the starter areas without incentive, just the nature of the beast.
It can’t be both ways, if you want Vets make it worthwhile. If you don’t leave it like it is………
Actually I don’t think they want GLOBS of vets in starter zones 1-15. But they do have reasons for vets to go to other zones. I know iron and softwood is a reason to go to 15-25 zones and many vets have farming routes.
Legendary collections require vets to do content in lower level areas.
Guild missions are also in older zones.
Current events are in older zones.
The Living Story Season 2 takes us to some older zones, including open world quests in Iron Marches, Diessa Plateau, and other zones.
And of course some people will go for world bosses, even just Teq or Jormag. And many of the events in older zones, like Fields of Ruins give you a chance to get items like Sam from the Ogre Wars event chain. I have guildies that do that content, or the Eye of Zhaitan quest chain from time to time.
There are reasons for people to go into old zones to do content. That’s very very different from the champ train.
Fortunately the expansion zones are well enough populated to get everything done I need to do, for much the same reasons. Collections, legendary weapons, achievements, or just fun.
@;Amaimon.7823
but that is why I always advocate the GW1 system: normal mode and hard mode.
Normal mode: 75% of the playerbase should be able to clear it (if they know what they’re doing), while Hard mode should be unclearable without knowledge of mechanics and optimal builds. But anet doesn’t have the resources to make this, I think. And the way the latest raids handled it is kinda cheesy and counter-intuitive.[/quote]
Normal mode and hard mode is more work. Guild Wars 1 was a much easier game to program for a number of reasons, including pathing, no gliding now, no open world, I could go on.
The point is it takes six months to make and test 1 zone and a short story in this game. People already say there’s not enough content. Now you want to add a hard mode to that? Two sets of zones or instances that can get bugged, that need to be fixed/upgraded.
Not to mention splitting the playerbase.
It really doesn’t make sense for open world maps, it only makes sense for instances.
Most people do story instances a couple of times. I’m not sure hard mode is any kind of answer here.
If I were developing a game, hard mode would not be an issue.
Though I might do challenge motes for Fractals. We’ve already seen one of them and I suspect we’ll see more.
Depending of course on how many people actually care enough to do them.
Of course in the Modremoth story is there IS a hard mode. The problem is, the easy mode is still too challenging for many people. The hard mode for that story is already there.
This is a solo instance. Do it like this and you won’t have this.
It’s an instance, not a solo instance. From the very beginning you could go with friends into personal stories without being penalized. There was precisely zero reason to change that.
I run a casual guild of a couple of hundred people, and I’ve had to do that mission about fifty times to help get people through it. I can’t tell you the number of times I soloed the end of it, because someone was in the penalty box.
You might love challenging content, but not everyone does and for the main story it’s probably a bad idea. It turns more people away from the game. Story is something casuals should be able to do with a relatively basic skill set.
But if story missions are “press A to win”- then where is the sense of thrill, the sense of achievement, the sense of survival. Oh look it’s mordremoth, the elder dragon. He’s been designed so 10 year old jimmy with slow reflexes can kill him with just auto-attacking.. I better brace myself for this epic figh- oh.. he died while I blinked
But in all seriousness, sometime during those 50 trips to the penalty box, a spark must’ve travelled through the brain to make a person think “hey, my strategy isn’t working, I need to use more CC, I need more dodges, I need more mobility, I need more X or Y”, and then adjust the traits and skills to get that. And I’m honestly curious, did they invest anything in the fight? are they wielding/wearing optimal equipment, or are they running some weird prefix not meant for combat at all?
They’re not all press A to win though, even in LS Season 2. That was the transitional stuff to HOT and a lot of people didn’t play them.
They’re not all press A to win, most of them are “stand here and press A to win, then dodge, move over here and continue pressing A to win”. The only boss I’ve fought so far this is less cheese-cut on is Caudecus, as it appears he is also pressing A to win.
We’re currently not Press A To Win, but we’re only 1 step away from it. if LS becomes any easier than it is, I just can’t take villains seriously anymore.As for the transitional period, LS2 has a nice curve introducing new mechanics, so you can tackle the jungle with newfound confidence. If players skip that and go straight to the jungle, is anet at fault, or the players?
that’s like going from high school to university without doing a lectural period, I mean, you can if you’re good, but chances are, 90% of the people who try that will fail and then complain the leap is too big.
The difficulty of the LS is extremely varied, depending on a number of factors. That’s the same with the Modremonth fight. I don’t particularly find it hard, so much as long and annoying.
But other people DO find it hard, and not just a few of them. Obviously you’re a good player, but you can’t make bosses only for good players, particularly in the main story which everyone is going to want to finish. You want that kind of content, do high level fractals and raids, because you’re not getting it in the personal story, as it should be.
But there are plenty of people who can’t finish stories. That have trouble even in Bloodstone Fen stories.
The difficulty of story encounters shouldn’t be based around the top 10% or the bottom 10%. They should fall somewhere in the middle and most of them do.
You can say you can do them easily. It’s not the same as saying they’re easy. They’re only easy for you.
There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.
And then there are people who have fun getting rewards.
Playing for rewards, doesn’t mean you have fun doing the content that gives the rewards. They’re seperate issues. I may have fun getting legendary armor, but I can’t stand raiding so it won’t happen. If I played for rewards, but didn’t like raiding, I suddenly wouldn’t like raiding.
Rewards aren’t content. People may very well like getting rewards. But the issue of whether they like what they have to do is a real one.
In truth is is really the problem with mastery points. Most people want mastery points but not everyone likes the content you have to do enough to get those mastery points. If those players force themselves to do that content, they’re not going to be having fun, even though the got the reward.
They sell a tonic for karma that reduces the size of your character and still lets them fight. It’s perfect for a norn in that room. I highly recommend it.
I don’t know when I want to play casually I just go do DEs. Even in the new zones. Plenty of fun events that aren’t hard.
Okay let’s talk about how reasonable what you’re saying is.
What I’m saying is perfectly reasonable because I don’t expect to do everything ANet offers. ALL I’m saying is that I can understand the complaints.
The harder you make content the more likely people are going to try to get an advantage by being on a full map.
That’s true only so far as rewards demand that players do that harder content. What’s more likely is that most people will gravitate towards whichever content offers the reward they’re after. If the reward does not entice, the harder content will be ignored for the most part.
Well, that’s true to a point. I don’t think the reward of TD is particularly great, but it gets done all the time. I do it because I find it fun. And while it’s true Dragon Stand has decent rewards, I run Dragon Stand for fun too.
There are plenty of people who play for only rewards. There are also plenty of people who play for fun though.
And even if the world boss train was more rewarding the the TD meta, I wouldn’t find it as much fun.
The problem with mastery points is that a lot of the ways to get them, a lot of people find unfun, like adventures. I tend to like a lot of the adventures, except that living in Australia adds an extra layer of difficulty to most of them, for which I’m not compensated at all.
There are adventures I know I could probably get gold on if I did them from the states, that I will never get gold in.
mastery points in HoT are not that bad, mastery points in tyria are kinda bare. In hot they seem to have more extra points, and they have masteries that are not that important, so you can skip, unless you are a completionist, in which case you d be trying to do everything anyway
but the thing im unsure of, if you hate hot, why do you need mastery points? They are for HoT content. They give you access to more of hot, and make exploring hot easier.
while i think mastery system needs tweaks and improvements, its actually over all, a really logical system. it rewards people who like to do the content with more access and depth to the content.
???
All of the HoT Masteries are also required in the maps AFTER HoT: Bloodstone Fen, Ember Bay, Bitterfrost, Lake Doric, Draconis Mons.
This is factually untrue. Nuhoch wallows, the poison resistence, the see stealthed creatures, only work in HOT zones.
You need all the gliding and you need jumping mushrooms. Beyond that, I can’t think of anything you need from a HoT zone.
There are five groupings of HOT masteries, including raids. You don’t need raid masteries at all, or exalted masteries at all. You don’t need Nuhoch masteries at all.
There are 169 points of HoT masteries not including the stuff from Ancient magics, which is the new zones. You need 36 points of those.
(edited by Vayne.8563)
While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…
What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …
I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.
On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?
You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.
On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.
I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.
Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.
But there are so many mastery points in the game, that you don’t need the ones tied to the meta events and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?
I’ve done the AB meta more than a hundred times. The TD meta doesn’t succeed as often even though it’s actually easier, just less people know it.
Dragon Stand is one of my favorite meta’s in the game and the wait to start it is usually less than 5 minutes. I just don’t see the issue here…except perhaps people who don’t know what to do.
I have to disagree with you on this one. You usually make very valid points, even i can admit that even though ive done AB and DS meta events. I could of done them alot more and got all the mastery points and didnt want too.
I recently have become very busy and cant even log in every day and when i do i jump in to try and get 1-2 mastery points or WvW for 30 min and then i have to leave.
This person is calling themself the most casual of gamers. You cant ask them to watch for timers and sit around for a hour especially if they only have a hour to play and this meta event isnt what they want to do.
Your usual argument of this part of the game might not be for you could apply here, it just sucks since Anet was the casual MMO and after 4 years they come out with HOT and it really doesnt fall in line for alot of players.
The most casual gamer doesn’t need, nor should they expect to get 186 mastery levels. There are many many many points you can get without ever doing a meta. Ever.
There’s one in AB that requires gliding under three arches. There are many communes and strong boxes, there are tons of easy to get ones to get the masteries you need to play.
You can’t tailor an MMO for someone who doesn’t have time to play because then everyone who does will simply be bored and leave. There’s always a balance required.
You tailor an MMO for the middle ground.
Someone who refuses to go to a timer site, and refuses to go to LFG for whatever reason will get left behind and that’s okay.
Because your other option is to make only simply stuff and you lose a lot of other people. There’s no good way to balance it.
I think HoT, on launch, was horribly overtuned and I think it’s still a bit overturned, toward harder core players. I think Anet could have done more to make it more palatable to the most casual players.
But there are definitely people I know how don’t like core Tyria and love HoT because core Tyria is way too easy and those people are back playing again.
It’s always got to be somewhere in the middle and everyone’s middle is going to be different.
… and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?
That’s not what I said at all. What I said was that I will not plan my life around a game’s schedule. I don’t look at timers because I don’t want that information in my subconscious. If I happen to log in when a meta is going (or about to get going) then I participate if the mood strikes me. There’s no can’t involved. Maybe that makes me the poster child for drop-in gaming. I’m sure that players who play MMO’s as a hobby (or in some cases even more fervently) may find such an attitude perplexing (or even irritating). Still, I’m glad that it’s a play-style that ANet seems to have returned to supporting in LS3.
Okay let’s talk about how reasonable what you’re saying is. You say you don’t want to look at a schedule because you don’t want it in your subsconscious? So how would you do the fire ele? What other reason would you ever have to be in that area of metrica anyway.
But then it’s just the fire ele, who cares. You can rock up any time and get it if it’s on. No need to be early.
I’d rather have one meta like TD that 400 world bosses like the fire ele which simply don’t do anything at all for me.
The harder you make content the more likely people are going to try to get an advantage by being on a full map. I don’t enjoy Tequatl, because it’s on farm and I’m stacked in one place, and it just feels pointless. So I don’t need another tequatl.
If you want more complex metas, you have to sacrifice something because some organization is being required. Roll up gameplay is always at odds with complexity, in anything but a single player game.
So what you’re really saying is you can do with more world bosses like the maw, the fire ele or the great jungle wurm.
I’d just rather have the situation I have with HoT than the situation I have with world bosses in core Tyria.
While GW2’s (timer stuff) might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when…
What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined … In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers …
I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.
On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?
You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.
On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.
I’ll concede the mastery point thing, although there are some tied to meta events, which matter more if one also dislikes mini-games, but that’s also another topic.
Other than that, perhaps you did not read my post before you commented. I’ve culled out all but the relevant points, above.
But there are so many mastery points in the game, that you don’t need the ones tied to the meta events and seriously, you’re saying you can’t log in once to try a meta event once, because you’ve decided doing so is jumping through hoops?
I’ve done the AB meta more than a hundred times. The TD meta doesn’t succeed as often even though it’s actually easier, just less people know it.
Dragon Stand is one of my favorite meta’s in the game and the wait to start it is usually less than 5 minutes. I just don’t see the issue here…except perhaps people who don’t know what to do.
You can’t be troubled to show up to the map 15 minutes ahead of the meta and keep an eye on LFG until you secure a spot on an organized map? That’s what you call “tailoring your life to the game”?
Showing up 15 minutes ahead of whatever your goal is = 15 minutes wasted. Then if you don’t end up getting into the organized map (which has happened to me multiple times), then whatever time you spent clicking Join In is also wasted. If you only have an hour to play, 15-30 min is significant.
I’m sorry but gathering stuff is never wasted and there’s plenty to gather. Getting zone currency isn’t wasted either. Even getting XP isn’t wasted if you’re still leveling masteries. Drops are still drops.
If you stand in one place for 15 minutes and do nothing, that’s fine. I’m doing events and farming.
You can’t be troubled to show up to the map 15 minutes ahead of the meta and keep an eye on LFG until you secure a spot on an organized map? That’s what you call “tailoring your life to the game”?
I play GW2 when nothing else is going on. I’ve jumped through the timing hoops of MMO’s before. I’m not doing it again. While GW2’s might not be as strenuous as those imposed in some other MMO’s, yes, that would be letting the game dictate what I do when, when I want it the other way around. That usually means metas, which last a lot longer than 15 minutes, are usually in progress when I log in.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not complaining about that. I actually don’t give a rat’s behind if I get to do a meta event in Zone X today. I can see, though, why others are complaining.
What I find curious is that while core GW2 also has timed meta events, there’s one starting about every 15 minutes around the clock, so whenever someone logs in, s/he could do one if so inclined. There’s also a lot of other stuff going on in core beside those meta events. In HoT, the zone meta comprises a much greater percentage of what there is to do than in core, and doing those metas often requires one to log in early and use the LFG work-around. That means that HoT is less friendly to drop-in gamers like me. Drop-in gamers were a demographic that ANet, once upon a time, stated they wanted around.
It’s kind of a moot point until we get to XPac 2, though. HoT is not going to change at this late date. BSF and EB are designed to include drop in gamers. I’m curious to see which way ANet will jump in the new pack.
I’ve jumped through hoops in MMOs before too this is NOTHING like that. I only need to get on the full server if I absolutely want to do the meta. If I don’t care about the meta I just log in and play as I’ve said many times. There are still enough people in zones not doing the meta to do content.
On the other side of that coin, timers have been in this game for years, way before HOT ever was. So if you wanted to do the fire ele, how did you do it without using a timer? Or Tequatl? Or anything else?
You either used a timer, or you missed out….long before HOT had come along.
On that note, this is about mastery points, and there are very very very few mastery points specifically that I can’t get solo.
LOOK dead
That’s what matters. The average player is simply going to enter HoT and play through the game. It doesn’t matter if there’s a full map in LFG or even if the map is full with everyone in a corner somewhere. If it’s continuously dead to them, they’re going to be discouraged and eventually stop bothering. Some simple UI changes could improve things, such as showing all nearby events and how many people are nearby / how many it’s scaled for. Simply showing the scale would hopefully stop the whole idea of needing 20+ people for a 3+ event.
LFG is a big part of the problem, as it’s potentially killing off 3 other maps per 1 full one. For those simply playing the game, they’re almost always going to find themselves spread out in those dead maps. The megaserver is the other problem, as it prioritizes popular servers, then eventually locks to invite only. If the maps simply filled, LFG wouldn’t be needed.
Big events would be much more accessible if there was simply a UI that showed when they were and you actually queued into a special event map. That way big events could be designed for exact numbers and they wouldn’t be killing off the rest of the map or persisting for other players to login to. I doubt they could do this, but they could also try phasing instead.
Even the dead maps aren’t dead, that’s one point no one says. I don’t use LFG unless I want a meta. Most of the time I’m just zone completing on different characters, because I find it fun.
I’ve zone completed VB on almost 30 characters, and AB on 25 of them. And I don’t run with hero point trains and I don’t use LFG very often…there are still people even on the so-called dead maps.
This whole HoT is dead is like when people say the game is dead, which people have been saying for years, even when it was at its height.
You’re not going to get 800 people standing on one hero point. But if you’re in a zone and you just watch map chat, you’re almost guaranteed that someone is going to be doing a hero point, sooner rather than later. This happens so frequently that it’s hard to believe I’m the only one seeing this.
Sure it’s hard to see people with multiple levels and all the foliage. Even if you’re on a VB map doing the meta in the last half of night, everyone will be up in the canopy and you, as a new player on the ground, might not know that anyone is there.
There’s a big community of people who play the HOT zones, not just a few people, a LOT of people.
But the zones are not designed to zerg. They’re designed for small groups to get stuff done.
Three people can do 90% of HoT, without grouping with anyone else at all.
It seems to me that if the crux of your argument is that 90% of HoT can be done with three people, that’s missing the point. I would imagine most people who are inclined to call a map dead were hoping to find more than three people.
Strictly speaking, many meta events can be done with a handful of players. But that doesn’t mean that’s what the average player wants to see. HoT maps are big and the term MMO has the word massively in it for a reason. I think it’s safe to say people are generally looking for a sizable group.
I also disagree with your assertion that the zones are made for small groups getting stuff done. “Small group” meaning what size? 10? 20? 3? If you mean something in the range of 3, I would say that’s a ludicrous assertion, when you factor in events like Vinetooth. If by small you mean 10-15, I might be willing to concede the point.
And it’s important because there’s a huge difference between 3 and 10-15. 3 is “we better all be very good at this or we’re screwed.” 10-15 is "most of us can make a lot of mistakes and we’ll get by on the sheer power of reviving each other and making up for individual skill with numbers. (For most events. Some are not that easy.)
You don’t understand my argument at all. I bring two people with me if I want to be serious. If people can’t find two friends in an MMO I’m not sure what to tell them.
That said, no, there’s far far far more than three people in a zone. I can’t ever remember a time when there weren’t enough people in a zone to do content, even without LFG except when a new build is out and I don’t reset.
Even if I get on a new map it’s not long before other people are on that new map with me.
Use the lfg feature.
Doesn’t work unless you have a lot of patience.
You don’t need a “lot” of patience to use LFG. You need a bit of discipline though. Which is different from patience. That is to say if you can follow a timer and set an alarm,you can get to where you’re getting early and do other things in the zone, while waiting for a specifiic meta. There’s plenty to do in each zone, including events that lead up to the meta.
It’s funny because that’s how I feel about flat maps, which are all the same, thus boring. Multi-tiered maps are actually different. And some of my favorite maps in the game.
I mean I see no real similarity between Bloodstone Fen, Verdant Brink, Tangled Depths and Draconis Mons. Not sure what you think is similar.
LOOK dead
That’s what matters. The average player is simply going to enter HoT and play through the game. It doesn’t matter if there’s a full map in LFG or even if the map is full with everyone in a corner somewhere. If it’s continuously dead to them, they’re going to be discouraged and eventually stop bothering. Some simple UI changes could improve things, such as showing all nearby events and how many people are nearby / how many it’s scaled for. Simply showing the scale would hopefully stop the whole idea of needing 20+ people for a 3+ event.
LFG is a big part of the problem, as it’s potentially killing off 3 other maps per 1 full one. For those simply playing the game, they’re almost always going to find themselves spread out in those dead maps. The megaserver is the other problem, as it prioritizes popular servers, then eventually locks to invite only. If the maps simply filled, LFG wouldn’t be needed.
Big events would be much more accessible if there was simply a UI that showed when they were and you actually queued into a special event map. That way big events could be designed for exact numbers and they wouldn’t be killing off the rest of the map or persisting for other players to login to. I doubt they could do this, but they could also try phasing instead.
Even the dead maps aren’t dead, that’s one point no one says. I don’t use LFG unless I want a meta. Most of the time I’m just zone completing on different characters, because I find it fun.
I’ve zone completed VB on almost 30 characters, and AB on 25 of them. And I don’t run with hero point trains and I don’t use LFG very often…there are still people even on the so-called dead maps.
This whole HoT is dead is like when people say the game is dead, which people have been saying for years, even when it was at its height.
You’re not going to get 800 people standing on one hero point. But if you’re in a zone and you just watch map chat, you’re almost guaranteed that someone is going to be doing a hero point, sooner rather than later. This happens so frequently that it’s hard to believe I’m the only one seeing this.
Sure it’s hard to see people with multiple levels and all the foliage. Even if you’re on a VB map doing the meta in the last half of night, everyone will be up in the canopy and you, as a new player on the ground, might not know that anyone is there.
There’s a big community of people who play the HOT zones, not just a few people, a LOT of people.
But the zones are not designed to zerg. They’re designed for small groups to get stuff done.
Three people can do 90% of HoT, without grouping with anyone else at all.