Showing Posts For Vayne.8563:

Suggestion let us exchange legendary weapons

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t like it. Legendary weapons are already too easy to get by a long shot. Not thinking that making it easier to get them would somehow make this game better. Legendaries are there for people to work on something after they’ve done everything else.

The new PvP dailies

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You mean PvE’ers can no longer get easy dailies in a different game mode? Good. I’m glad. The fact is the old dailies were bad for PvP itself.

REmove the adventure from collection

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Mastery points are the same for HoT whether they come from the expansion maps or the LS3 maps. Considering that you have to max masteries from both to get XP, I don’t see why there needs to be a distinction.

Because the point I was making is that one needs to collect a bunch of adventure MPs to complete HoT.

I agree that they’ve done a good thing by having more MPs available on the LS S3 maps. But, it’s not enough (yet) to offset the mistake made in HoT. (“Mistake” is in my opinion.) Plus, it requires playing through LS S3 in order to complete HoT. That just feels wrong.

You will never completely complete HoT without doing adventures. Depending on what you consider being complete anyway. But since Adventures ARE a part of HoT, and you’re talking about “completing” HoT.

It will always be, “I completed HoT! …except Adventures.”

This is like saying you’ll never complete core Tyria without getting shield master,

Adventures are on the map. Weapon mastery isnt,

You can advance shield master, in theory, without ever performing a shield kill in core tyria.

Scouts are on the map but you dont’ have to complete the scouts to complete a zone. Merchants are on the map. There are things on the map that you can interact with that don’t need to be interacted with.

They don’t count toward map complete. You can do them or you can ignore them, in the same way you ignore a trading post, crafting station, or anything else on the map.

More to the point, if I complete a hero point or mastery point, it’s marked off on the map. That doesn’t happen with an adventure.

REmove the adventure from collection

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Mastery points are the same for HoT whether they come from the expansion maps or the LS3 maps. Considering that you have to max masteries from both to get XP, I don’t see why there needs to be a distinction.

Because the point I was making is that one needs to collect a bunch of adventure MPs to complete HoT.

I agree that they’ve done a good thing by having more MPs available on the LS S3 maps. But, it’s not enough (yet) to offset the mistake made in HoT. (“Mistake” is in my opinion.) Plus, it requires playing through LS S3 in order to complete HoT. That just feels wrong.

You will never completely complete HoT without doing adventures. Depending on what you consider being complete anyway. But since Adventures ARE a part of HoT, and you’re talking about “completing” HoT.

It will always be, “I completed HoT! …except Adventures.”

This is like saying you’ll never complete core Tyria without getting shield master, I got a bronze on every adventure, thus I consider HoT completed. I mean I’ve also zone completed each zone at least 8 times, and finished every HoT collection, except for Astralia and Chuka and Champawat, both of which I’ll eventually make.

Oh yeah, I still need migraine.

But you see that doesn’t mean you didn’t complete HoT, unless you mean you need every HOT achievement.

I don’t know anyone who got every core achievement, but I know a lot of people who feel like the completed core.

Individual collections that require adventures aren’t really a part of HoT. They’re separate entities, designed to give people reason to return to HoT after they’ve completed it, much like achievements in core zones.

Do you really need to get every auric weapon to say you’ve completed HoT? Every chak weapon? Every plated and machined weapon? I have all of them, but I felt like I completed HoT long before I did.

Forced Rezing in Group Boss Fights.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I fail to see why anyone is against this?
Yes you should revive during down state, but when you’re dead, quit being lazy. I can’t tell how many times after trying to revive a dead body, only to be carpet bombed by aoe. I now intentionally avoid those fully down, and ping the nearest waypoint. This would be a great idea to add

And if you don’t have a nearby waypoint and won’t get back in time? Then should you port? Maybe you used teleport to a friend to get into the fight and don’t have any waypoints in the area at all.

It’s happened to me.

TD meta and LFG commanders

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Doing the meta is part of the zone. Doing the events leading up to the meta is the zone. People who want to rock up early and just get the big rewards might get left out. That’s how the system works.

If you want to get into a good map, you don’t have to and shouldn’t stand around and wait. Do the events leading up to the meta. It’s not like the currency is going to be wasted. Or the loot.

Edit: That said, commanders should remove their squad from LFG once the map fills.

REmove the adventure from collection

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

It’s highly unlikely that Anet is going to make any changes at this point. All you can do is express your dissatisfaction and hope they don’t do the same with the next expansion.

It seems to me that they’ve already gotten the message: there haven’t been any adventures in LS S3.

There aren’t any hero points in LS 3 either, but I can pretty much guarantee there will be in the expansion. I think it’s likely that adventures would be thought of as expansion content, since they’re already making a map and a story every 2-3 months.

We’ll know if they actually decided this if there are no adventures in the expansion.

The meaning of "Game"

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Actually there’s nothing in the definition of game that says it has to be relaxing and everyone’s definition of fun is different.

I know people who love failing over and over again to get better at something to overcome it. There are people who find that fun.

I’m pretty sure that football is a game and most people don’t find it relaxing.

REmove the adventure from collection

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

1. How would anyone know that?
2. Most people play an MMO RPG to play an RPG, not to play mini-games.

1. By trying an adventure once.

So you think that trying an adventure once would magically make someone pay attention to the XP they got and they would somehow know that this amount of XP was much better than the normal amount of XP they got?

Also, for anyone that is not inherently good at these mini-games I disagree that they would be good XP/min as many people fail over and over.

People keep talking about how hard it is to level up their masteries and how much time it takes. I can assure you a good percentage of players watch their mastery bars as they go up. Not all players but a lot of them.

If they see the bar jump, then they know.

I’m also relatively sure you see the amount when you click the chest on top of it.

The amount of experience is so much you can see the bar jump, particularly if you get silver or gold.

You’d have to be not paying attention at all to not notice.

Of course, there are plenty of people play this game that are completely oblivious to everything in the game, but you can hardly blame the game for that.

Please remove champions from HP missions

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

As someone who got Elite specs for all of my 43 characters. I wouldn’t mind if ANet gets rid of Champs in HoT HP, but it isn’t hard to get 250 HP for the elite specs.

In VB HP, just ask for help in the map. Most of the HP is soloable by channeling anyways. Wait for night so that you can reach the guano hp.

In AB HP, start a HP train. I can get a group easily for it. There are a ton of champs.

By the time you reach TD, you only need 2-3 HP. There are enough soloable ones. If you don’t have the masteries for the solo ones. Start a HP train.

If you have updraft use and jumping mushrooms you don’t have to wait for night to reach the guano HP. However, that’s the hardest HP to beat in the zone, so if you don’t like difficult content you might think about skipping that one.

You don’t have to wait for night, but you need a group to do that event. At night, there is always a group that wants to do Guano HP.

You don’t need to skip that one. Just set a timer for the time when chopper to come down to take people to canopy. Then you can go back to get that HP.

That I agree with. I’m going under the assumption that the most casual players tend not to want to look at timers, or play on a schedule or wait for stuff. They just want to go and do stuff.

There are more than enough points in the game you can go and do to unlock your elite spec. So if that’s what you’re after, skipping bat guano is probably easier.

Please remove champions from HP missions

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

As someone who got Elite specs for all of my 43 characters. I wouldn’t mind if ANet gets rid of Champs in HoT HP, but it isn’t hard to get 250 HP for the elite specs.

In VB HP, just ask for help in the map. Most of the HP is soloable by channeling anyways. Wait for night so that you can reach the guano hp.

In AB HP, start a HP train. I can get a group easily for it. There are a ton of champs.

By the time you reach TD, you only need 2-3 HP. There are enough soloable ones. If you don’t have the masteries for the solo ones. Start a HP train.

If you have updraft use and jumping mushrooms you don’t have to wait for night to reach the guano HP. However, that’s the hardest HP to beat in the zone, so if you don’t like difficult content you might think about skipping that one.

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

@sorudo.9054

Not a compromise. You take a universally usable skill that’s the most popular skill in the game, and you move it from HoT, particularly now that you have new zones that you can train it in that aren’t HoT and you ruin the entire balance.

Why would someone not playing HOT go into HOT to train nuhock wallows, when they’re not going to go into HOT in the first place. That doesn’t get people into HOT.

And since you don’t realize is, there are people who didn’t like HOT at first who liked it later. They died a few times and would have given up. But then they got the hang of HOT. Without gliding I’m not sure those people would have stayed.

Nope. I still think that would be bad for the game.

REmove the adventure from collection

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

My primary interest in letting my dislike for adventures be known is that I want ANet to be aware of my thoughts for new content going forward. So, I’d prefer either:

  • New adventures be made for those players who like mini-games, but that the rewards be intrinsic, like the XP and “free” rare Healix alludes to, rather than extrinsic, like collection requirements.

or

  • ANet not add any more adventures to the game.

Frankly, my preference would be the first option, as I have no wish to deny mini-games to those who want them, but if ANet cannot get behind the idea of not linking progression rewards or alternatives to ascended crafting to game content in which I do not get to play my character’s build, then the latter option would be acceptable.

Disclaimer: ANet will do what it wants, but they have made changes to their approach before based on player feedback, so I’m providing mine. I am not claiming that I speak for anyone but myself.

What if they had their very own unique skins that you could earn instead of mastery points?

I’d be perfectly fine with that. A skin unique to an adventure would be an intrinsic reward. At that point, it would be no different to any other unique skin attached to specific content, and people would have the choice of whether gaining the skin was worth doing the content.

Agreed.

Holy smokes. Something we can all agree on.

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I’m saying that HoT is not much different from Orr on release, or at least, I remember seeing the same kinds of posts about it.

There is some truth in that, but there is also a fundamental difference between HoT (VB) and Orr:
For Orr, you could always go back to the previous and easier maps and build your character and abilities until you felt ready for Orr. In contrast, for HoT, you had to play in HoT to prepare for HoT. You had to prepare in the same area you were preparing for. That’s one of the crucial downsides of HoT.

In a way, I did go back and prepared elsewhere: I played Fractals for a year instead of HoT. But I don’t think that was expected and intended gameplay. It was expected that if a player buys HoT, he will play HoT and not an old game area.

you just summarized exactly my problem with this, a new expansion can add new stuff but should never scare player away just so they can prepare.

one thing i really don’t like is the part where masteries are region locked, there is absolutely no reason why i can only learn masteries in HoT maps but nowhere else.
that’s like saying i can only learn to ride a bike in a city instead of down town, really makes absolutely no sense.

i can understand linguistics, you can’t learn a language in an area where they never use it and have nothing to learn from.
same with the toads, it only grows there so you can’t learn how to use it unless you have it close by, that’s logical.

The reason masteries are region locked has to do with gameplay not with logic. That is to say if you have easier places to get mastery a percentage of the playerbase will take the easy road, even if they might enjoy the harder road. It’s just human nature.

You make an expansion and you need to give people reason to play/farm that expansion. Being fun isn’t enough for everyone. Perhaps it’s not enough for most people even.

if they need a reason they need to do a better job, locking it down in an expansion that already scares ppl away shows lack of reason and bad design.
also, everyone has a different idea of fun, my fun is to have a goal and story to follow, the HoT maps are so chaotic and the story is so locked down behind masteries that fun isn’t high in the list when i run around there.

There’s always going to be something that scares someone away. Take away stuff that scares people away, and you might as well close the game down.

As an example, when this game launched, people were scared away by dungeons,. scared away by Orr and even having to complete WvW to get world complete.

There has never been a time when people weren’t scared away.

Make a game that has nothing that scares anyone and it’s a game I probably wouldn’t play.

i never ever asked to take things away, i ask to put some masteries in a global category (that works in both core and HoT).
in HoT and LS3 the further you go the more you need your glider, it would be a really good thing to make gliders global so when you’re high enough (or maxed out) it’s less a choir to play ether and more an enjoyment.

Yep, I know what you asked for and I believe it would be bad for the game.

Part and parcel of making any MMO is traffic control. You have to direct people where you want them to go, mostly through rewards. People say they love challenging content but without reward most people wouldn’t do it. They want their time and energy to be rewarded.

The MMO player base is its own worst enemy. Where as you personally may really want to just stay in core Tyria forever, others may say they want to and yet they’ll get bored not being forced into that new zone and they’ll leave the game. Not everyone is analytical enough to know why they stay or why they leave a game.

The need to put people in new zones, means you have to make sure the rewards are exclusive to those zones. Which is why what you’re asking for isn’t likely to ever happen.

And when the new expansion comes out, should there be masteries (and I’m guessing their will be), then they’re going to make leveling those masteries unique to those zones.

REmove the adventure from collection

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

For what it’s worth (i.e. not much), I hate adventures — if I wanted to play console games, I’d own, you know, a console game. So I wish ANet had never added them to the game. However, since they are in the game, I decided to give them all a try. And it’s not as hard as the OP suggests. There are guides and tips out there.

So I’d prefer if the OP opened with, “I’m struggling with adventures and they are blocking my completion of collections. Can anyone help me?” Instead, they’ve made a blanket statement about changing the game based on their perception of difficulty.

Considering the thread title, I don’t think the OP is looking for help, he wanted to express his opinion that Adventures shouldn’t be required for collections and should be removed.

That’s exactly my point. Instead of first looking for help to complete their collections, the OP is asking ANet to change the game.

Since Adventures are a solo-only activity, and are not End Game content, there should be no need for help. You should be able to simply play them and complete them. I don’t need hints or outside information to do other events in the game. Why make Adventures so difficult that people need outside help?

Not that I want to do Adventures in the first place. I want to play an RPG, not mini-games. So I agree that no mini-games should be required for content that is not mini-game oriented.

Some people don’t need any hints or tips; some need hints & tips for practically everything. There’s tons of content for which plenty of people haven’t learned all the tricks.

In short, it’s got nothing to do with “end game” versus “solo” content. Hints & tips are for any sort of content, for any sort of player, whenever it’s something outside their comfort zone. Clearly, Adventures are outside the OP’s preferred content, just as dungeons are outside other folks’ preferences and both are needed to finish collections and/or forge shinies.

There’s little point in making any content too easy and little point in making it too difficult, however, there’s no magic balance point in which content is just right for everyone. Adventures are most difficult for those of us who don’t like them by their very nature, including myself and the OP.

In the end, it’s a design decision. I wouldn’t have made the choice, but I can admit that’s my hangup and respect what ANet was trying to do. (Even though I think it wasn’t very successful: too much push back from detractors relative to how many ardent fans — then again, I don’t have any data; that’s just my impression.)

The only adventure I looked for help on is Flying Circus, and I didn’t need to, I was more curious if there was a better way to do it. Actually I still may look for help in Sanctum Scramble, because I’m sure there’s shortcuts I’m missing.

Edit: Actually I just remembered, I did look up Fungus Among Us to, to get silver for a collection.

(edited by Vayne.8563)

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I’m saying that HoT is not much different from Orr on release, or at least, I remember seeing the same kinds of posts about it.

There is some truth in that, but there is also a fundamental difference between HoT (VB) and Orr:
For Orr, you could always go back to the previous and easier maps and build your character and abilities until you felt ready for Orr. In contrast, for HoT, you had to play in HoT to prepare for HoT. You had to prepare in the same area you were preparing for. That’s one of the crucial downsides of HoT.

In a way, I did go back and prepared elsewhere: I played Fractals for a year instead of HoT. But I don’t think that was expected and intended gameplay. It was expected that if a player buys HoT, he will play HoT and not an old game area.

you just summarized exactly my problem with this, a new expansion can add new stuff but should never scare player away just so they can prepare.

one thing i really don’t like is the part where masteries are region locked, there is absolutely no reason why i can only learn masteries in HoT maps but nowhere else.
that’s like saying i can only learn to ride a bike in a city instead of down town, really makes absolutely no sense.

i can understand linguistics, you can’t learn a language in an area where they never use it and have nothing to learn from.
same with the toads, it only grows there so you can’t learn how to use it unless you have it close by, that’s logical.

The reason masteries are region locked has to do with gameplay not with logic. That is to say if you have easier places to get mastery a percentage of the playerbase will take the easy road, even if they might enjoy the harder road. It’s just human nature.

You make an expansion and you need to give people reason to play/farm that expansion. Being fun isn’t enough for everyone. Perhaps it’s not enough for most people even.

if they need a reason they need to do a better job, locking it down in an expansion that already scares ppl away shows lack of reason and bad design.
also, everyone has a different idea of fun, my fun is to have a goal and story to follow, the HoT maps are so chaotic and the story is so locked down behind masteries that fun isn’t high in the list when i run around there.

There’s always going to be something that scares someone away. Take away stuff that scares people away, and you might as well close the game down.

As an example, when this game launched, people were scared away by dungeons,. scared away by Orr and even having to complete WvW to get world complete.

There has never been a time when people weren’t scared away.

Make a game that has nothing that scares anyone and it’s a game I probably wouldn’t play.

Please remove champions from HP missions

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.

If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.

It’s a problem for the game because the people who are complaining want game play to be convenient. It’s not about doable v. not-doable, it’s about convenient versus inconvenient. If you think convenience is not a major factor in how players view games, you have not been paying attention.

I did HoT hero challenges something like two months ago on my warr and had exactly zero problems finding a few guys for each of the champ HPs. If using LFG or asking in map chat is viewed as too difficult, than that’s a confession of failure for the community.

Is that a failure for the community, or is it an artifact of MMO’s trying to expand their customer base by attracting players who don’t want the same things as many of the original MMO playerbase does?


It seems like ANet is trying to please as many people as possible to keep them around. Once you start thinking that way, the question becomes, “What is gained versus what is lost?” As I see it, no one who really likes what HoT offers is going to leave the game if a few Champion HC’s that they’ve undoubtedly done many times are down-graded to vets as long as ANet continues to add engaging content going forward. Compare that to the numbers who’ve posted (which usually means there are many more who don’t post) who think that HoT was a rip-off which they find annoying and inconvenient.

Players who dislike HoT aren’t going to suddenly enjoy it because a few hero challenges were downgraded to veterans. However, players like myself who love HoT and routinely go back to these maps just to run around doing events and hero challenges (the champions give loot chests daily) would likely consider it a much bigger deal. Believe it or not, I have my favorites and I go back to them again and again (and help others defeat them in the process!).

As has been rehashed many times before, there are plenty of hero challenges available to unlock the elite spec without having to deal with the tougher champion hero challenges (e.g. mushroom queen, balthazar, broodmother). Downgrading only some of them is unlikely to have a great impact on players who dislike champion hero challenges because their issue is not being unable to unlock the elite, but rather being unable to map complete without assistance and unable to unlock the elite without practically exploring the whole jungle looking for the low-hanging fruit hero challenges.

In short, I think this is a suggestion that is a well-intentioned compromise, but ultimately would produce little benefit at some cost to the players who genuinely love HoT.

See, I think there would be a lot more benefit with little loss. However, another alternative would be that the Champion HC’s could offer two options — one would be a commune, the other would proc the Champion. Doubtless there will be objections to that, too. I suppose it would be instructive, though. Just how many would take the path of least resistance and how many want to fight the champ.

If you provided proper incentives based on the concept of effort vs. reward, who cares? Of course, some players would then insist that they are being forced to solo champions in order to receive the reward (duh?). What can you do?

As it is, the bag for repeating the champ HC’s is no better, and might be worse, than the bad for finishing the random vet events ANet added in 4/2016. Obviously, there would be no reward bag for communing, just the HP.

The bag wouldn’t be worth the time. I’d just commune. But it wouldn’t make the game better for me.

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I’m saying that HoT is not much different from Orr on release, or at least, I remember seeing the same kinds of posts about it.

There is some truth in that, but there is also a fundamental difference between HoT (VB) and Orr:
For Orr, you could always go back to the previous and easier maps and build your character and abilities until you felt ready for Orr. In contrast, for HoT, you had to play in HoT to prepare for HoT. You had to prepare in the same area you were preparing for. That’s one of the crucial downsides of HoT.

In a way, I did go back and prepared elsewhere: I played Fractals for a year instead of HoT. But I don’t think that was expected and intended gameplay. It was expected that if a player buys HoT, he will play HoT and not an old game area.

you just summarized exactly my problem with this, a new expansion can add new stuff but should never scare player away just so they can prepare.

one thing i really don’t like is the part where masteries are region locked, there is absolutely no reason why i can only learn masteries in HoT maps but nowhere else.
that’s like saying i can only learn to ride a bike in a city instead of down town, really makes absolutely no sense.

i can understand linguistics, you can’t learn a language in an area where they never use it and have nothing to learn from.
same with the toads, it only grows there so you can’t learn how to use it unless you have it close by, that’s logical.

The reason masteries are region locked has to do with gameplay not with logic. That is to say if you have easier places to get mastery a percentage of the playerbase will take the easy road, even if they might enjoy the harder road. It’s just human nature.

You make an expansion and you need to give people reason to play/farm that expansion. Being fun isn’t enough for everyone. Perhaps it’s not enough for most people even.

What's the point of playing this game?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I play this game because I have fun playing this game. I also happen to think the game is better now than it was at launch. At least for more, more complicated open world zones with harder content make the game better, along with a slew of quality of life improvements.

End-game content

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Revenant is the profession with the least amount of skill use. Make an ele and try that if you want more skills, or an engineer. You literall.y picked the profession with the least amount of skills.

FAVORITE GW2 maps?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Verdant Brink
Tangled Depths
Draconis Mons

These are my three favorites in that order.

LFG dungeons?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Westenev.5289

I not talking about teirs more of if there is less members scale down the health, loot, and damage of mobs by respective (they already do this with certain mobs in open world). It wouldn’t be different modes so much as a way to play content at a pace that’s not so hectic to step into blind. This wouldn’t be for current content, more for older dungeons (if they make new ones). There is a lot of story and architecture (they put a lot of effort into creating) seems like such a shame to not open it up to more players. I remember fondly running old content in a game I played years ago and being able to see the stories, lore, and the architecture really added to the game experience. Some of dungeons have really cool aesthetics that you just don’t get the opportunity to slow down and appreciate.

So make your own LFG saying sight-seeing casual run, we’re going slow to see the content and get people who play like you.

The game doesn’t have to be reprogrammed. People need to take more initiatve.

I do casual fun dungeon runs sometimes, watching all cut scenes, never had a single problem.

Please remove champions from HP missions

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

They have something to do. They can do what you’d do in a temple in Orr. Stand by the point until someone does it. That’s how I get temples in Orr. If you’re telling me someone can solo complete the entire game without waiting for events in Orr I’d agree with you.

They’d have to wait for about five hero points in the same way. it’s simply not that big a deal…people are making it a big deal. Many many casual even solo players have done this. It’s not hard.

It is jumping through hoops just a bit…but this is just an overstatement. Saying it’s not something to do because you have to jump through hoops isn’t really true. Everyone can do it. They can’t do it solo any more they they could solo temple of Lyssa or Grenth. They have to wait for people. It’s different, but not so different…except that you need less people and can start on your schedule.

Edit: Even easeir, those on a US server can contact me in game and they’d get them just by going around with me, which I’ve offered on numerous occassions. Some people have taken me up on it, but surprisingly few, considering how many people have complained about not being able to do it.

There are a bit more than 5 champion HC’s in HoT. There are 3 in VB and 6 in AB (I didn’t count Balthazar because it’s a commune and it is hypothetically possible to go in and commune when the champ has been defeated even if you didn’t participate). I don’t know how many of the 11 HC’s in TD are Champs, though I’ve seen at least 3.

There’s also a big difference between Orr and HoT. In Orr, if you cannot get an HC in a temple or near a statue, you can just go do something else, or come back another time and lo and behold the temple got done. In fact, since mega server arrived, I see temples in Orr done 7 times in 10 that I go near them or pass a statue. In HoT, you cannot come back later and find the HC uncontested because finishing it means beating the Champion.

Regardless of how many have done it, or how easy it is or isn’t, the real issue is the psychology of gamers. Many players are easily put off. Convenience is so big an issue that people downgrade games if convenience feature X is not available. The mentality that the overarching desire for convenience creates is one in which people will just blow off things to do if it is inconvenient for them. It’s why we see so many complaints about HC’s, Mastery points, navigating HoT and many other things (grind, for instance). Having to put too much thought and effort into a game is more than a lot of people care to do. Those are the people who are getting turned off.

Now, maybe gaming in general, and MMO gaming in particular, was better back when people had to put a lot more effort into their games. It was certainly better for players who like games that require more thought and effort, and that offered more challenge. The thing is, though, that once WoW went more mainstream, games have been getting less intense, and more convenient, because that’s what that larger audience seems to prefer.

I’m talking about HPs that can be soloed relatively easily. The flower in AB can be soloed. The golem in VB can be soloed. They’re not that hard.

There are two points in VB I wouldn’t try to solo, the bat guano and the hylek at trecherous paths. I wouldn’t solo the tengu in AB, and though Balthazar isn’t solo, you can actually do it on a map it’s already done. You don’t have to do it at all. You just have to wait for it to be done.

Maybe you can’t solo the chak either.

The point is, there’s a couple of each map, it’s still hoops and there’s still zone completion to do.

If you say you can’t do it, don’t do it, but that’s not a game problem. Those points get done every day multiple times a day and probably multiple times an hour. They’re not impossible and most of them aren’t hard, and several of the champs are soloable.

If you can’t do it, and you won’t do an HP train and you won’t ask in map chat, and you won’t have a friend join you, I find myself wondering why that’s the game’s problem.

I know too many casual people who solo who have finished completing every zone in HOT to believe that it’s a real problem.

Edit: Oh yeah, and if you do WvW or EoTM (both of which you can solo by following a commander around), you can get proof of heroics and buy those hero points without ever partying, and complete the zone that way. If you’re telling me people can’t follow a commander around WvW or EotM, or get a friend or two, or a hero point train, what you’re really saying is this game must be completable one way and one way only. And while that was mostly true of core Tyria, I don’t think it’s reasonable. There are plenty of options to get the few hero points you can’t get on your own….including standing by one and waiting for others to come along (or others to announce they’re doing it in map chat).

(edited by Vayne.8563)

REmove the adventure from collection

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I thought a bunch of them required silver? ( not disputing that it’s possible, merely that they need a bit more than bronze)

They used to until April of last year. I think the legendary precursor collections still require silver or above though.

Hivemaster still does too (which is ridiculous, considering Scrap Rifle is one of the hardest adventures in the game).

It really helps to use condi food during this adventure. Also, all the boosters work in adventures, as well as food and utilities. Those help too.

Consumer feedback for ArenaNet: New lvl 80

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

HoT is different. You’re not ready for it because you’ve skipped LIving Story Season 2, which is harder, and available for purchase as well. If you’d done that first, you’ve have been more ready for HoT.

I agree that Anet does a kitten poor job of explaining the order of the story but you’re going from chapter 4 to chapter 8 (example not real numbers), without having experienced anything between.

Edit: If you’re on a US server and you want some helping acclimatizing to HOT, I’ve helped many people bridge the gap, just hit me up in game.

Thanks Vayne.
2 points to make in reply to you: 1) I know i have skipped chapters, that is what I wrote above. The point is that the game makes you skip chapters if you want to unlock masteries and get a glider. I am currently going back to do season 2 now. 2) How do you communicate cross server? There are many US servers….

I’ll whisper you. There’s no trick to communicating cross server, you can just add my name to your friend’s list.

Consumer feedback for ArenaNet: New lvl 80

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

HoT is different. You’re not ready for it because you’ve skipped LIving Story Season 2, which is harder, and available for purchase as well. If you’d done that first, you’ve have been more ready for HoT.

I agree that Anet does a kitten poor job of explaining the order of the story but you’re going from chapter 4 to chapter 8 (example not real numbers), without having experienced anything between.

Edit: If you’re on a US server and you want some helping acclimatizing to HOT, I’ve helped many people bridge the gap, just hit me up in game.

Please remove champions from HP missions

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The reason for completing HOT maps is to get your legendary and some hot collections. You can ignore the handful of really hard hero points in HOT and still get your elite spec, which is the main reason to do them.

At the end of the day,. this is about completionists saying I can’t complete this map solo. And it’s true. It’s likely that they can’t complete that map solo. But it’s still relatively easy to complete the maps.

If you’re arguing that they should be able to complete maps solo, I’d have to ask why? Because it was mostly that way before?

Yes, I’m arguing it because map exploration is something to do. I’m arguing it because giving people more things to do is what makes MMO business models work. I believe that giving more value to solo players would have been better for the health of the game.

I believe that HoT offered too little for the demographic that prefers to play solo (and it’s a large demographic if other games are any indication). ANet set up their business plan so that those players had to buy HoT if they want to get new things to do, the ongoing story and superior specs and gear prefixes. The maps, however, offer those players a lot less than core did. Restoring exploration as a solo pastime would be a step towards adding value for those players. It’s fine, I suppose, to alienate a portion of your customer base, but I have a hard time believing that’s good for ANet.

I refuse to believe that changing a few HC’s to vets would have turned HoT into something that offers too little to the demographic that likes what Hot offers. It seems more to me like the battle lines are being drawn in fear of a slippery slope. I doubt that will happen. The LS3 maps still offer more varied mobs in terms of what players need to do to survive/defeat them.

Anyway, I think it’s a moot point. At some point, when more players have moved on from HoT, Anet either will or won’t change the champion HC’s. I doubt by the time that happens that most people will care. Meanwhile, I note that there are no HC’s on the new maps, and exploration is for the most part a solo thing. This makes me wonder if ANet is going to have us unlock any new Elite Spec via some different mechanic than Hero Points. If the new XPac maps are like LS3 in terms of exploration, I’ll be happier.

They have something to do. They can do what you’d do in a temple in Orr. Stand by the point until someone does it. That’s how I get temples in Orr. If you’re telling me someone can solo complete the entire game without waiting for events in Orr I’d agree with you.

They’d have to wait for about five hero points in the same way. it’s simply not that big a deal…people are making it a big deal. Many many casual even solo players have done this. It’s not hard.

It is jumping through hoops just a bit…but this is just an overstatement. Saying it’s not something to do because you have to jump through hoops isn’t really true. Everyone can do it. They can’t do it solo any more they they could solo temple of Lyssa or Grenth. They have to wait for people. It’s different, but not so different…except that you need less people and can start on your schedule.

Edit: Even easeir, those on a US server can contact me in game and they’d get them just by going around with me, which I’ve offered on numerous occassions. Some people have taken me up on it, but surprisingly few, considering how many people have complained about not being able to do it.

(edited by Vayne.8563)

REmove the adventure from collection

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

I completely agree. Not only are Adventures irritatingly difficult, but I personally don’t want to play GW2 in order to play some other game. I’m in-game to play the MMO.

Remove the adventure from collection. Is impossible complete specialization collection. Create collection dedicated to adventure e remove from other collection.

If it were impossible then nobody would have completed them.

Adventures only require you to get bronze which is doable for all of them.

I’m pretty sure the OP means “impossible” for them. It’s great that you are awesome at the game Ayrilana and nothing anyone complains about is an issue for you. Different players have different experiences from you – not everyone is the same.

Except none are really that impossible to get bronze in order to complete those collections.

So what are you saying about those of us who can’t do them?

If you can’t do them you can’t get those collections done, in the same way that if you can’t raid you can’t get legendary armor. It’s not significantly different from not being able to beat Liadri to get the Liadri mini…but adventures are much easier than beating Liadri.

Worst Guild Wars 2 Map?

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I like all the maps for what they are. If I had to pick I’d say Southsun was my least favorite, followed by Gendarran Fields and Bloodtide Coast. Not a huge fan of pirates, and I find those zones mostly bland. In fact the human areas in general are my least favorite being the most mundane.

Please remove champions from HP missions

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

- snip -

You think there’s too little for casual players to do after leveling to 80 in GW2/core or GW2/HoT? I can’t agree.

Since the topic is HoT HC’s, and some of the HoT HC’s require the defeat of Champions, why talk about core? You want to throw the old saw about if people don’t like HoT, they can just keep doing core? Remember that core is just as old for some solo players as it is for prefer-to-group players. Remember that HoT is the game going forward, and solo players who want to do story and get LW updates need to pay for HoT. It should offer their playstyle as much value as core did.

Core
Dungeons: not for solo (except maybe the top 1%)
Meta events: solo can play, but cannot be soloed
Other events: almost all can be soloed
Exploration: completely solo; less than 10 objectives across dozens of maps may be dependent on temple meta completion

Heart of Thorns
Raids: not for solo (not saying they should be so no one needs to jump on that issue)
Meta events in HoT: solo can play, cannot be soloed
Other events in HoT: solo can play; some can be soloed, some can’t
Exploration: solo play discouraged by game design because 3+ HC’s per map require the defeat of Champions (unless one is in the top 15-20% [spitballing] in PvE skill-wise)

Substantially the same, but overall less value than core. The changes are that the bar was raised in HoT for non-meta events, and exploration was discouraged for solo players.

What I find interesting is that with BSF, EB and BFF, exploration is once again solo-friendly for most everyone. What I wonder is whether the lack of HC’s there mirrors future design, with some other means needed to unlock Elite Specs. If that happens, this is likely going to be a dead issue, and ANet may leave the HoT HC Champs as is or downgrade them as HoT gets older.

And how does not getting those small amount of hero points really affect the game. People had a reason to complete the world. They get a title, and they get some achievement points. They get a gold star next to your name.

The reason for completing HOT maps is to get your legendary and some hot collections. You can ignore the handful of really hard hero points in HOT and still get your elite spec, which is the main reason to do them.

At the end of the day,. this is about completionists saying I can’t complete this map solo. And it’s true. It’s likely that they can’t complete that map solo. But it’s still relatively easy to complete the maps.

If you’re arguing that they should be able to complete maps solo, I’d have to ask why? Because it was mostly that way before?

But before the reward was a bit more impactful to casual players. HoT was made for a less casual player, because less casual players have been asking for that for a long time.

It’s habit that you have to complete maps. Completing a hot map is meant to be more challenging, and it is. But it’s far from impossible.

If you absolutely refuse to get help with a hero point, you won’t get map completion. And nothing about the game will actually change.

For people who do not like masteries

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t know that playing the game was intended to just follow a commander tag.

He didn’t say he “just” followed a commander tag. And the combination of a commander tag and an invitation for people to explore with the commander makes for a good reason to want to explore a new map with a commander + group.

Not everyone wants to play the way you (or Anet) wants them to.

For a guy who doesn’t want to respond to my posts, you sure do it a lot. lol

My point still stands. He never tried to explore the zone he tried to get somewhere in the zone he couldn’t reach because he died repeatedly.

He DID try to explore the zone – with a commander that presumably knew the zone because the commander was offering a tour.

And that’s happened to people in Orr and even Frostgorge. People have felt that same frustration in other parts of the game before this. I’ve seen this same complaint before.

And yet neither Silmar, nor myself, nor anyone else I have read on these forums, have mentioned having similar trouble in Core. In fact nearly every complaint about HoT being confusing that I have read has specifically stated that they did not have this problem in Core Tyria.

So you seem to be saying if you don’t have a problem no one does or that those that do don’t matter. Well then the said could say the same thing for you.

If there weren’t complaints about the difficulty of Orr why was it nerfed?

Your criticism was that he was trying to get somewhere to join up with someone instead of exploring on his own. The reason this made a difference for him is because VB is a confusing map (especially the minimap). Trying to get from A to B in Orr is not even remotely as confusing.

Orr mobs were nerfed simply because they didn’t fit in the difficulty progression of core Tyria.

There are places in Orr it’s very hard to get to. You just don’t remember. Like trying to get to the other side of Straits of Devestation when the event isn’t on and the bone door is blocking the entrance. There are two ways to get around but you have to find those ways and people died before they did.

I didn’t criticize what he did. I simply thought it was the wrong way to go about it. An attrition mechanic is designed to make people stop and think about what they’re doing. That includes coming into Straits at level 70 and running to the other side to get to a commander with level 75 foes. You would die, probably a lot. And you’d realize, I’d hope, that maybe there’s another way to do this. Because that’s what games are.

You try something, it doesn’t work and you try something else.

It’s like saying I’m level 10 and I want to fight level 20 foes, so I’ll just go here.

I’m not saying HoT has no flaws. I’m talking about trying to get to a commander and dying repeatedly is a bad reason to give up on a zone, because it’s happened to other people in the past.

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I’m not really sure where you’re going with this one, Vayne. If HoT is no different than core, why do we love it so much? Isn’t it the challenging combat and huge, multi-layered maps? And is that not also what many other players hate about HoT? Are you going to tell them that they’re wrong for having their own opinions?

I know you’ve opened the eyes of many players to the joys of HoT (and so have I), but that just isn’t going to work on everyone. Some players just aren’t into that kind of gameplay and nothing you say or do is going to change that.

I’m not saying HoT is no different from Core. I’m saying that HoT is not much different from Orr on release, or at least, I remember seeing the same kinds of posts about it.

People are saying that HoT has fundamentally changed the game that the devs were trying to provide. Yet the experience in Orr is very much like the experience in VB. You have long event chains that open outposts, or temples which have an effect.

Creatures in Orr had stuns and pulls and knockbacks and people died. They couldn’t find their way around. Most waypoints in Orr were always contested. They complained.

No one claims Cursed Shore is like Queensdale. But Orr is significantly harder than the zones before it. Southsun was harder than Orr. Difficulty in games progress for a reason.

Saying that I couldn’t get to a commander in VB and so VB frustrated me is a commend I’ve heard about Orr and even about Frostgorge. One of my more casual guildies tried to follow the Frostgorge champ train and couldn’t keep up and she was all kinds of frustrated.

I’m saying that HoT IS harder, but so was Orr. That people complained about Orr and like HOT it got nerfed.

But Anet had always intended to include a level of challenge in this games open world. It launched with a level of challenge. If you were around you’d know how much has been changed and nerfed since release.

The game has been made easier and easier due to people complaining about difficulty. But the whole time people were complaining about difficulty, other people were complaining it was too easy.

This game hasn’t changed as drastically as some claim it has. They simply complained until Anet “fixed” THEIR problem without realizing it was causing other problems for a different demographic of players.

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t know that playing the game was intended to just follow a commander tag.

He didn’t say he “just” followed a commander tag. And the combination of a commander tag and an invitation for people to explore with the commander makes for a good reason to want to explore a new map with a commander + group.

Not everyone wants to play the way you (or Anet) wants them to.

For a guy who doesn’t want to respond to my posts, you sure do it a lot. lol

My point still stands. He never tried to explore the zone he tried to get somewhere in the zone he couldn’t reach because he died repeatedly.

He DID try to explore the zone – with a commander that presumably knew the zone because the commander was offering a tour.

And that’s happened to people in Orr and even Frostgorge. People have felt that same frustration in other parts of the game before this. I’ve seen this same complaint before.

And yet neither Silmar, nor myself, nor anyone else I have read on these forums, have mentioned having similar trouble in Core. In fact nearly every complaint about HoT being confusing that I have read has specifically stated that they did not have this problem in Core Tyria.

So you seem to be saying if you don’t have a problem no one does or that those that do don’t matter. Well then the said could say the same thing for you.

If there weren’t complaints about the difficulty of Orr why was it nerfed?

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

The problem is trying to find a commander halfway across a map on a map you’ve never visited like following a commander tag blindly is the game.

It was a new thing. Following a commander around to explore the map was never necessary and was never done on the old maps. If someone offered this on that new map, I thought it was a good idea to follow to ease the exploration, because the map looked a bit confusing from the first story mission. Before, I never followed farm trains or the like. I wanted to prepare. I thought it would be easier with some kind of guide – that commander tag. Apparently, I was wrong. I don’t blame the game for me being wrong, but I blame the game for prohibiting me reaching some person on that unexplored map in a very unpleasant way.

Looking back on that situation, I cannot find a fault in my initial reasoning. There was no event in sight, so I was totally free to do anything. I simply was unprepared for my task, so I failed. I blame the game to not prepare me for that moment. I know now that this was actually the design of the game: to get the player into trouble unprepared, just like Mordremoth caught the pact fleet unprepared and destroyed it.
Well, I can only say that this is a design that makes me abandon a game. I see this as a personal insult. Very personal. If the game designers send me to perish, I want to let the game perish in anger. I cannot see the slightest bit of fun or entertainment value in that. I never felt a connection between the pact fleet failure and my failure: the pact fleet failure is due to Mordremoth’s story, and my failure is due to the map design. Not due to the jungle being dangerous.

And as I said twice now, people had the same problem in Orr at launch and even later. This is not a new complaint to HoT. People have died multiple times trying to reach a commander and got frustrated.

If you keep dying, you think maybe I should do something else, or at least that’s what I would think. Thinking I want to do this so it must be possible is, in my opinion, not the best way to play any game.

Is it frustrating, sure? But those limitations exist in all facets of the game. They’re called attrition mechanics. You simply ignored it.

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I don’t know that playing the game was intended to just follow a commander tag.

He didn’t say he “just” followed a commander tag. And the combination of a commander tag and an invitation for people to explore with the commander makes for a good reason to want to explore a new map with a commander + group.

Not everyone wants to play the way you (or Anet) wants them to.

For a guy who doesn’t want to respond to my posts, you sure do it a lot. lol

My point still stands. He never tried to explore the zone he tried to get somewhere in the zone he couldn’t reach because he died repeatedly.

And that’s happened to people in Orr and even Frostgorge. People have felt that same frustration in other parts of the game before this. I’ve seen this same complaint before.

You’re focus on whether he’s playing right or not isn’t really relevant to the fact that HOT isn’t extremely different from Orr. There are contested waypoints, there are places that are harder to get to, and people were confused and died trying to get to commanders, whether he’s playing as intended or not.

The zones are designed to play to to run to a random place. Even in Kessex Hills if you enter through the wrong gate and you’re outleveled by everything around you could die trying to get a a commander. And if you did that you’d have to learn/figure out be told how to go through the other entrance from Queensdale into Kessex.

That’s what I’m trying to say…regardless of whether I think that it was the best way to approach the new zone or not.

For people who do not like masteries

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If you are speaking of VB, let me tell you how my first open world experience looked like on that map. I just got out of the HoT prologue mission.

I saw a green mark somewhere on the fogged map for the next mission, and I said to myself: “well, let’s explore that new territory before I continue with the story”.

I saw a commander tag, and I saw an invitation from the commander in map chat for exploration. That was exactly what I was looking for. I joined his squad and tried to reach him. Unfortunately, it wasn’t possible to reach his tag. Either I was downed by enemies and had to start over. Or the tag was “over there” across, but no path leading to him. Or he was above me, or under me, and once I managed to get across, he was on the opposite part of the map. It was neither possible to reach his squad, nor possible to understand how that map and map navigation worked. I was constantly running and looking for contact with some group, but I wasn’t able to find any. Sometimes, I found a group, but it suddenly vanished into the void minutes later (they were flying away, porting away, jumping up or down as I now know).

That was my first experience in HoT, and it made me turn away from HoT for months. I simply wanted to play the game as it was presented to me, but it didn’t work. If there were not my guild, I would probably have left the game at this point.

Allowing such things as starting experience for a just released expansion is bad design.

Apparently, the devs focused solely on the endgame experience of a fully leveled and experienced player and totally forgot about the rookies that just started out. I sincerely hope that for the future expansion, Arenanet will invite players and not professional game QA testers to test and evaluate the starting and leveling experience of that expansion. We need people who test and evaluate how playing feels, not only QA that only ensure the non-existence of bugs.

I don’t know that playing the game was intended to just follow a commander tag. I’m sorry you had that experience. Here’s mine.

I did the first story and when I was done I started looking around. I went off the plateau by the starting waypoint and there was an event right there. It’s the pale reavers event chain.

I followed the people who were there and the orange circle, and I did the event. It led to an event chain that took me through the zone. The chain is actually 9 events long. I had gliding finished by the time I finished that chain.

The problem is trying to find a commander halfway across a map on a map you’ve never visited like following a commander tag blindly is the game.

The map was made to be explored. It’s like Orr when you first got to it. Following a commander worked for farming, not for following the story of the zone.

I’ve had new players complain to be about the Frostgorge Sound champ train saying much the same thing you just did. They couldn’t figure out how to get to where the next event was with no waypoints They’d get everywhere too fast and get frustrated. This is why I disliked the Queendale champ train so much.

There are two slopes off the place where the first story of HoT leaves you. Both of them lead to event chains.

If you’d been not trying to follow a stranger halfway across the map and actually tried playing the game, maybe your experience would have been different. Mine was.

The masteries along the way and the skill points came from playing the zones by following the event chains in the zones.

It did take a while to get my “hot legs” under me, but not much longer than it took to get my “Orr legs” under me.

Thoughts on HoT story

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

As I’ve said many times, half the story of HoT is in the zones. For example the modremoth fight in Dragon Stand is much better and more interesting than the one in the story.;

For people who do not like masteries

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Whatever complaints still exist about hot are a vast minority.

This is is because the actual “end-”gameplay in the HoT maps is really good and fun, and complaints mostly deal with preparing yourself and grinding away the obstacles.

Leveling your masteries, having to ramp up your character and getting used to the maps is an awful and tedious experience. The things that can be described with “getting ready to have fun” are no fun. But once you overcome all the obstacles, playing the HoT maps with events and meta-events is really fun. Even I have fun there these days, although I complained very much about HoT and hold up all my complaints.

This game has always been about the journey. When I was leveling, I couldn’t do everything. I did my zone. These zones are in a way like more than one zone. You can do the ground, but not the canopy in VB. But most stuff is on the ground.

To do VB effectively for 90% of it you need bouncing mushrooms, basic gliding and updraft use. If you play the game, ie do dynamic events and story, by the time you get to VB you have half of gliding trained. You need to train 2.5 masteries, ie level, to get to the next zone where you only need one extra mastery.

If this takes more than a day even without boosters, you’re just not playing well. But if you focus on what you’re doing ie the journey instead of focusing on what you can’t do, you’re playing the way the game, in my opinion, has been designed to play.

There are tons of people who say leveling is boring in this game and they’re grinding out levels because they’re focused on the goal instead of the journey.

If you play HoT like the core game, and stop worrying about masteries, it’s a much more fun experience. It’s all about focus.

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You can’t build a game around the lowest 5% of the playerbase, or you lose the top 5%. Every game in existence is looking for that sweet spot, but the spot is different for everyone. My issue with your comments on HOT and mastery points is that you seem to believe you have some sort of majority. That what was done is actually something wrong with the game. I don’t believe that’s true.

But it does sadden me that you have to stoop to personal attacks. And I’m not particularly happy with how conveniently you forget what’s occurred in the past of this game.

Okay it’s possible you don’t play that well.

You can’t build a game around the lowest 5% of the playerbase

Yes, I’m the one with the personal attacks LOL. I only responded to your comments by saying you made me regret responding.

I don’t believe that it is only the lowest 5% of players who have problems with HoT. And I never asked for the game to be “built around” anyone. I am simply expressing my opinion. If enough people don’t like something it is up to the company to decide what they will do with that information.

Look at what you’ve just quoted. “It’s possible” that you don’t play that well. Pointing out a possibility can’t be construed as a personal attack. I didn’t say you do or don’t play that well. And you can’t build a game around the lowest 5%, again, it’s a fact whether or not you’re a part of it. On the other hand, you called my opinion laughable. Which is more offensive.

I have no problem with people expressing their opinion. However your opinion has ventured into territory that’s factually wrong. Anet has said dynamic events are part of end game on more than one occassion ( and someone provided a quote for that) and you’ve said other things along the way that are misleading, bordering on mistruth.

I’m not saying you can’t have your opinion. I respond to your posts when your opinions when being read by others are being stated as factual. If you find HoT difficult and I don’t, then it’s likely I do play better than you, I’m not sure why that’s an insult. However calling someone’s opinion laughable is absolutely an insult and can be taken no other way.; You know, glass houses and all.

There are even people who dislike HoT who are now starting to disagree with some of what you’re saying. But this thread isn’t about HOT it’s about mastery points specifically and even I’ve agreed with some of the criticism, with the explicit proviso that the Living World has rectified some of the problems people have with HOT by offering more mastery points than people need.

I don’t think and have never thought adventures were a good idea for mastery points. If nothing else, everyone with lower ping, including everyone outside the US is at a disadvantage and it feels bad man.

But that doesn’t change the fact that HoT isn’t close to dead, that people are getting mastery points and hero points there every single day and that I know this because I’m in HoT pretty much every single day.

Because I have guildies right now that are playing through HOT, getting everything they need and doing content. There are tons of people doing this who don’t mind using a timer site and the LFG tool. I’m sorry you don’t like these things but tools exist in the game to deal with many of the issues you bring up.

I’ve successfully done every meta in HoT in the last couple of weeks, and with the exception of T4 in VB, I wasn’t particularly trying for any of them. I’ve seen people getting hero points and mastery points. I’ve seen people killing vinetooth prime.

Is it exactly the same experience as core? No. But Queensdale is not exactly the same experience as Malchor’s Leap either. This game has always provided a variety of experiences. And those of us who play this game for the open world are entitled to harder more complex zones that we find fun because the core zones don’t bear repeating in the same way. HoT keeps people like me playing. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.

(edited by Vayne.8563)

For people who do not like masteries

in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Hang in there Djinn, yes, just skip over his posts….

When people start making claims like open world can’t be end game, because it’s not a dungeon or raid, ignoring stuff Anet themselves said about the end game of this game, then I’m going to call them on it every time.

This thread is about mastery points and many of the posts that have been made are made by people who for one reason or another can’t get mastery points for their characters.

I’ve agreed with people who said mastery points shouldn’t be locked behind adventures, but I do feel that some people want things to be easy enough where anyone can do them.

The issue with that is that that bar moves for each person. If you make something easy enough for say Djinn to do, and he says this is great, there’ll always been someone else who says it’s not easy enough for them.

Once you do that, you’ve made it too easy for other people, who then leave the game before it’s too easy. It’s all about finding the sweet spot.

But some people feel so strongly about their experience that they project that experience onto the largest part of the player base. I’ve said time and again, I don’t think any demographic has a true majority here. It’s all about tuning experiences so that most people are within the range that accept what you’ve done.

I agree some people feel getting mastery points is too hard. I don’t think anyone believes getting mastery points is too easy. The bar could be moved more toward easier.

However, that’s precisely what Anet has been doing. Each new zone provides more HOT mastery points than you need.

The real issue, for some people, is core Tyria mastery points. And that’s not really a Heart of Thorns issue, or a difficulty issue or a map is confusing issue.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Technically there was one dungeon path canned, but also the Aetherblade Dungeon and the Molten Facility only exist now as fractals and they’re somewhat different from the originals.

Uhm, I remember playing the Aetherblade path only half a year ago, so it’s still there.

Which dungeon was the Molten Facility part of?

In addition there’s the Nightmare Tower which is more or less an open world dungeon.

Woot? Are you talking about the one in Kessex Hill? Where’s the “dungeon” part of it? I remember exploring that POI, and there were only underwater remains with a champion krait guarding the whole construct, right? What did I miss?

The Aetherblade dungeon has nothing to do with the Aetherblade path. If you weren’t here you never saw it. They turned it into two fractals.

What was the dungeon part of the one in Kessex? The entire thing was a giant tower in the open world filled with bosses, much like an open world dungeon. You can only see the ruins today.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

I am continuing, for the most part, to do the same sorts of things I enjoyed while leveling. Of course the mobs are more challenging than what I faced in Queensdale, but doing open world events, fighting mobs, gathering, and so on are pretty much what I did while leveling. The sorts of things haven’t changed completely and fundamentally, but there certainly has been some escalation of challenge…then again Orr was more challenging than Queensdale too…even if the sorts of things done there is fundamentally the same or very similar.

There are other things that were not present while leveling however…trying unsuccessfully to navigate a multi-tier map. Gliding. Jumping mushrooms. Those wallows and chutes, etc. Can’t say I like them that much. Actively dislike most of them.

In HoT I’m not doing the same things I did in core (“Queensdale” lol). In core I never had to worry about huge numbers of mobs with cc PLUS confusing maps PLUS continual group content. Interesting that given these MAJOR differences from core that you experience HoT exactly the same.

Okay it’s possible you don’t play that well. I’m doing the same thing. I’m doing the exact same thing I did in Queensdale. It doesn’t mean the mobs don’t get harder. It’s just harder dynamic events, harder mobs. It’s called progression.

Unless you’re saying the mobs in the Curse Shore are identical in difficulty to the mobs in Queensdale. Or the mobs in Southsun which was introduced two months after launch.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Anet said many times the entire game is end game, which they explained to mean that you do the same thing at end game as you do when leveling. This is what was said, and I’ll paraphrase it because I wouldn’t begin to know where to look for the specific quote.

I googled “GW2 endgame” and found this:

https://www.engadget.com/2012/01/23/flameseeker-chronicles-we-dont-need-no-stinkin-endgame/

“ArenaNet doesn’t want to give us a game that completely and fundamentally changes once you reach endgame. If the team did that, it would mean that once you reach endgame, either you do not have the game you paid for in the first place or you do not have the game you paid for until you reach endgame. I don’t know about you, but neither of those options is appealing to me. I’ll take the entertainment I paid for right out of the gate, thank you!…

Jon Peters’ quote: "Endgame is such a dirty word. We want our game to be the endgame. We don’t like the idea of a game that changes when you hit max level…

In most games, you play the game you get up to max level and the entire game changes. You were doing one thing, and then now you’re doing something else. Here, when you get to max level you continue to do the same sorts of things you enjoyed while leveling."

I guess according to you and the others I’m responding to, endgame is another place that Anet did a complete 180 from their original intent for the game.

Actually its’ not true. Since this game launched with Orr, which casual people complained as too hard even back then, it’s exactly the game Anet promised. Orr was NEVER too hard. It’s just that some people couldn’t cope with the increase in difficulty from the day of launch. It wasn’t that Anet changed the game from launch to HoT. It’s that players that couldn’t keep up complained so much that Orr was changed, and for every player that liked the changes to Orr, I’m convinced another player disliked them because Orr, which had be interesting, difficult and challenging, became a karma/XP farm zone.

The fact is, people said the same things about Orr at launch as they did about HoT.

You believe that the game has changed from core, but core had to change to get to the game you’re crowing about. And I liked it less after that nerf, not more.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

GW2 core also had 33 dungeons when it released.

What?! There were more dungeons earlier and they were all canned??? Nooooo! This is the first time I am hearing about this.

(Note: Even though I purchased the game at release in 2012, I didn’t really start playing it until late 2015.)

As far as I know, only one dungeon path was ever “canned”, and that was replaced by the Aetherpath. 33 dungeons would be the number you arrive at when you include every single path, including story paths. We still have 33.

Technically there was one dungeon path canned, but also the Aetherblade Dungeon and the Molten Facility only exist now as fractals and they’re somewhat different from the originals.

In addition there’s the Nightmare Tower which is more or less an open world dungeon.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

There was a big April patch, a year ago April. Changed HoT in many ways. Added veteran events for people who prefer to solo for example, in enough quantity to make a difference. Thinned out enemies. Changed some of the adventures to make it easier to get silver/gold. Changed some of the collections to need bronze instead of silver, decoupled day from night in TD, among other changes.

It was a pretty big deal.

Ooooh, thanks. As I was still leveling characters at the time (and wasn’t active in the community, nor reading the release notes), I completely missed out on this.

Whatever complaints still exist about hot are a vast minority. Most people have moved and many who used to not be able to play HoT can play it now.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

GW2 core also had 33 dungeons when it released.

What?! There were more dungeons earlier and they were all canned??? Nooooo! This is the first time I am hearing about this.

(Note: Even though I purchased the game at release in 2012, I didn’t really start playing it until late 2015.)

But i agree with you, if the HOT we have right now is what we got when released i would not have any negative comments other then simple preferences.

Errr… today’s HoT is no different than back when it came out. What are you referring to exactly?

There was a big April patch, a year ago April. Changed HoT in many ways. Added veteran events for people who prefer to solo for example, in enough quantity to make a difference. Thinned out enemies. Changed some of the adventures to make it easier to get silver/gold. Changed some of the collections to need bronze instead of silver, decoupled day from night in TD, among other changes.

It was a pretty big deal.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

If it is so easy and clear as you write, well, why do threads like these constantly pop up since HoT release, where people write about their problems, which are all the same since release? For you it might all be easy and clear, but for (too) many people it seems not, and that fact is proved by the pure existence of these threads. A non-issue would generate none of these forum threads.
Don’t look at the design itself, look at the people how they deal with the design. They clearly have their problems with it.

you know HOT came out nearly 2 years ago right? People saying they are still struggling after nearly 2 years of gameplay are either being disingenuous or are going to struggle with every game known to man. People don’t post for non issues, that’s why the vast majority don’t complain about the difficulty of HOT, because actually its not really a difficult game. Dark Souls is a difficult game, or a tightly tuned raid is difficult, even some GW1 elite zones, but GW2 lol, no.

Or they could be new to the game and not a veteran who was around before HoT launched. Given the level 80 boost, a good portion may enter HoT areas within a short time frame of joining the game because they want the elite spec.

Solid point. I think that a good counterpoint might be that we should, politely, encourage new players to hold off on jumping into endgame content while they are learning to play the game. A game whose endgame content is not a struggle for people new to the game is going to have problems providing any challenge at all to people who have been playing for a while.

Of course some new to gw2 players are very experienced mmo players and will become skilled here very quickly.

HoT is not “end game” content any more than any level 80 zone is “end game” content. If Anet would like to make it “end game” content they will have to find a way to communicate that in-game so that everyone is clearly informed.

HoT was marketed as max level content for players who were ready for increased challenge over the core game. It fits gw2’s endgame definition pretty well. Sure we have instanced stuff too, but open world has always been described as part of this game’s approach to endgame.

Apparently I didn’t see that “marketing”, nor any comments regarding open world being part of end game.

In every MMO I can think of, end game isn’t simply “the highest level zone” in the open world. It is a part of the game that you must approach with deliberation – it requires some kind of progression, organization, and planning. If Anet truly has stated that open world = “end game” in GW2, that would be very strange indeed.

Anet said many times the entire game is end game, which they explained to mean that you do the same thing at end game as you do when leveling. This is what was said, and I’ll paraphrase it because I wouldn’t begin to know where to look for the specific quote.

In most games, you play the game you get up to max level and the entire game changes. You were doing one thing, and then now you’re doing something else. Here, when you get to max level you continue to do the same sorts of things you enjoyed while leveling.

Now keep in mind the people who said this designed Orr, which was later nerfed, and they designed Southsun which is much harder than the core game. But they still have dynamic events.

How is Orr, part of the original end game as per the devs, different from the rest of the world? No hearts. The events there were meant to be part of the end game.

Anet advertised this game as a living breathing world. Clearly they didn’t mean us to be squirreled away in instances as part of their end game.

I’m not sure why anyone who proports to be a fan of this game could have some how missed that far more time was spend talking about the open world than dungeons, or raids, which didn’t even exist.

Orr was considered end game, because it was challenging open world content. Anet has talked about Orr as being part of the original end game. Not just because it was the highest level map. But because the focus of this game is dynamic events.

Keep in mind in most games, you have far fewer repeatable quests, because quests are just for leveling.

That’s simply not true here.

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in Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns

Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

Why do you say that Legendaries are “end game”? And what about non-HoT Legendaries? No “end game” is required for those…

That’s not true. Dungeons were part of the original end game and non-hot legendaries did require 9 dungeon runs at launch to get them. In addition when you ask about what you can do after level 80 (which is what most people see as the definition of end game anyway), you’ll see making a legendary listed.

And in it’s original format, don’t forget you had to play WvW including completing all 4 WvW zones to get a core legendary. Sure you could buy one from the TP, which meant farming gold, which is something considered end game in this game, ie, something you can do at 80, after you’ve leveled.

There’s no magical definition of end game that says it’s just dungeons and raids, even though in SOME games, people say that is end game. However, in this game, the idea of the entire game is end game has been around for years. Anet has said it and I’m sure you’ve heard it.

It’s meant to say that this game is different from most games and the things you do while leveling are the things you continue to do after level 80, so obviously Anet doesn’t believe that raids and fractals are the only PvE end game.

I mean it’s clear to me that Dragon Stand was designed as a open world raid anyway. And if you remember how hard TD was at launch, before they toned it down, that was an open world raid as well. Triple Trouble is pretty much an open world raid.

Instanced content in other games is predominantly how you can get gear in the game with the best stats. But stats are easier to get in this game, so the emphasis is on getting the most desirable skins. Here even achievement hunting would have to be considered end game because it’s the only way to get pinnacle weapons and a complete set of radiant or hellfire.

For people who do not like masteries

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

You can try to hold Anet to your standards as to what constitutes an announcement. However, most developers expect fans to read their blogs.

Do they? I have seen from various MMO developers that only around 10% of a game population regularly reads information outside the game itself. Perhaps you can tell me the source of your information?

The fact that developers in every game I’ve ever played put information about the game into blogs, interviews and forum posts which never makes it into the game. That’s about as specific as your “facts,” so if you want a list of games you’re going to have to pony up your info. By the way, if you are all aggrieved because GW2 did not in game tell you what to expect from HoT, does that mean you read developer statements for other games but not this one? In other words, just where did you get, “I have seen from various MMO developers that only around 10% of a game population regularly reads information outside the game itself?”

People pick and choose how much they want to read about any subject. As far as games go, some people just want to play, and then there are various levels of “fan” that want additional information besides what is in the game. I’m pretty sure that the professionals at Anet know this and don’t think that every player is going to read their blog.

I could go find quotes regarding the percentage of players that read additional material, but since you are not concerned enough to bother to support your claim, neither am I to that extent. However I will support it by one anecdote I know by heart: I almost never read the GW2 blogs. I didn’t read the one about HoT you are referencing. And I am one of the more active players on the forums.

I agree. There are those people who won’t read and just want to play and those people will never really make it in the end game of ANY MMO.

Even in Guild Wars 1, without having one of the meta builds for Underworld no one was going to let you into their pug group. Sabway, I-way whatever the flavor of the month was, you had to have it, which meant you had to have a clue, usually by going to PVX-wiki.com if nothing else.

The same is true here. As to HoT not being any more end game than the rest of the game, Anet was clear that HOT was harder from the outset, and if that wasn’t enough, there was a beta and people were saying it.

Before you buy any product you should do a modicum of research. If you don’t, that’s on you.

I understood before HoT launched that it was meant to be more difficult end game content. Anyone who doesn’t know that isn’t paying attention and those same people would suffer in the end game of any MMO.

“End Game” in every MMO I know about is differentiated from regular content by barriers to entry. End Game is usually raids or dungeons which require multiple people. Sometimes it is gated by other requirements. It is laughable for ANYONE to insist that HoT is “end game” content.

Other MMOs also have progressive open world zones. However, their zones are generally balanced so that all level 30 zones are of similar difficulty, etc. GW2 is the only MMO I know that has level 80 zones that are WILDLY more difficult than other level 80 zones. This means that people used to playing MMOs will not (and did not) expect the huge disparity of HoT zones. This is why they should have had a better description when purchasing HoT and an in-game warning as well.

It’s like going into a restaurant that serves some food that is spicy (lvl 80). All the food that is spicy is noted by a little pepper next to the name (lvl 80 label). You’ve eaten at this restaurant before, so you know you like the level of spice in their food. But you order a new dish and put a bite in your mouth and it burns your mouth off. Now there is a description at the bottom of the menu in fine print that this dish is much spicier than the rest of the dishes on the menu, but you didn’t go out of your way to look for it because you naturally assumed that a spicy dish would be of the same level of spiciness as the others in the menu.

I love how you use words like laughable to try to denigrade people’s opinions. HoT is end game, because legendary weapons are end game and you have to play HOT to make hot legendaries. This isn’t most MMOs. This MMO didn’t even launch with raids.

HoT IS end game for the open world. Something this game has always focused on…unlike other MMOs.

If HoT is end game why are they making an expansion? That doesn’t seem accurate to me, unless you are thinking the expansion will stay in the same area, even then that would suggest HoT wasn’t the end.

Every game has end game and still makes expansions. End game is more or less a list of things you can do once you level, and that’s all it is. In this game there are more viable end games than most other games, but if you look back at threads about it dating years, most people will tell you there’s a lot you can do at end game and then they list those things.

HoT was designed to be what you do at max level, thus it is end game by definition.

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Posted by: Vayne.8563

Vayne.8563

This game probably will never be the most played MMO, because it doesn’t lead you around by the nose. A lot of people need a breadcrumb trail to exist. Games that send you from quest hub to quest hub. If you love this game, and you “get it” then you may find it hard to go back to other MMOs.

By the same token there are people who come here and have no idea what to do, where to go, or what to work on.

It’s not a game for everyone. It’s absolutely the best MMO for my particular play style.

Welcome to Tyria!