Guild Wars 2

IndigoSundown.5419:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

I know all of this already. I know all about world boss timers. In case you don’t realize it, Dragon’s Stand really isn’t a boss like the Shadow Beast. Not the same thing at all. It hasn’t helped. It’s as simple as I’ve gotten into dozens of maps at the exact right time before the event starts. There are maybe 15 people total. Over and over it happens, assuming I get into a map at all. Nothing gets done.

Okay I have nothing to say to that. I haven’t missed getting into a map in probably a year. I’ve done it at least dozens of times. I’m not sure why you’re having a different experience than everyone in my guild who runs it, but obviously something is going on.

I’m in Australia, I run it at US times and sometimes at Australian prime time Haven’t had a problem getting into a map in forever

You say people end up on different servers, that’s why you join the squad and specifically join on the commander.

Perhaps Celtic Lady is playing in EU at off times?

It’s possible that’s the case. But there have been other people in EU who have had similar complaints and I seem to recall other EU players saying pretty much the same thing I’ve said. I could be mistaken about that, but I’m not thinking the game any worse off in EU than it is in the US. Just a guess, but an educated one.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

I know all of this already. I know all about world boss timers. In case you don’t realize it, Dragon’s Stand really isn’t a boss like the Shadow Beast. Not the same thing at all. It hasn’t helped. It’s as simple as I’ve gotten into dozens of maps at the exact right time before the event starts. There are maybe 15 people total. Over and over it happens, assuming I get into a map at all. Nothing gets done.

Okay I have nothing to say to that. I haven’t missed getting into a map in probably a year. I’ve done it at least dozens of times. I’m not sure why you’re having a different experience than everyone in my guild who runs it, but obviously something is going on.

I’m in Australia, I run it at US times and sometimes at Australian prime time Haven’t had a problem getting into a map in forever

You say people end up on different servers, that’s why you join the squad and specifically join on the commander.

That’s not how I remember it. There was a slot given for prepurchasing though

Sometimes you can listen to a company for a long time and draw certain conclusions. They may not be the correct conclusion but I think it’s pretty obvious that if something like build saving was a priority it would have been done. I can think of very few scenarios that say otherwise.

It’s called an educated guess. Asking people to stop drawing conclusions is like asking people to stop breathing.

It’s not going to happen.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I love the system; I don’t like some of the mastery lines. Pact & Fractal mastery are pretty good and always useful. Legendary mastery is mostly just a gating tool.

Some of the LS3 masteries are great; some feel too-specific to the map. And the HoT masteries include a lot of things that are purely gates to prevent early access to certain areas.

They’re supposed to be gates. In most MMOs you have to level to get to areas you couldn’t normally do. But we don’t have leveling here. So how do you slow people down and stop them from burning through the content. You gate it.

No matter how much cointent is in an expansion some people are going to finish it in a matter of months or even faster. In normal games it’s leveling and gearing and in this game it’s masteries. They solve the poblem of progression,. Fortunately, they’re account bound which makes them much more appealing to me.

I like the mastery system, though I didn’t like mastery points being linked to adventures. As more mastery points became available this became less of a problem.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Well, I already know how often the Dragon Stand meta runs. I know how long the maps last and when they turn over, but it doesn’t do me any good. Even when I watch for every new map beginning, there is still no way to get into a fullish map. Either the maps are empty or they’re “closed” or “full.”

Trying to get the meta for weeks. I don’t need the condescension of people saying “Well, I can run DS 15 times a day every day whenever I want.” Great. But this is not the reality for everyone.

I cannot play 24/7. I can play usually between 6-10 pm. This is when I watch for events. And I’ve been able to find nothing for DS during this time for weeks now. It is not from lack of watching the times or trying.

How can I do this multiple times a week, and you can’t g;et in at all. Obviously one of us hasn’t figured out how to do it. You’re right in the fact that it’s not something you can just know, it’s one of the values of joining a knowledgable guild. Guilds share this kind if information. I can’t tell you how many people I’ve taken on their first dragon stand run, one of the reasons I’ve done it so much.

The trick is to get there before it starts…when the old map is closing. You join a squad. If there is no squad at five minutes too, use the looking for group tool to join a squad.

When the map closes you’ll die. Immediately waypoint to the first waypoint in the zone, right click on the commander in the squad and choose join in dragon stand. That’s assuming you’re not already in the same map. In case you haven’t joined a lot of squads, if the box with the commander’s name it is in green, you’re on the same server. If it’s clear then you should right click on his name and click join in dragon stand.

Once you’re on the map, you’re good to go. Just stick with the commander.

Again, I haven’t done this once or twice. Iv’e done this dozens of times.

The entire game is on timers, btw, including the world bosses. A site like gw2timer.com would be of great help. There are also overlays you can download if you prefer.

THE FORGE.7198:

Faaris.8013:

Danikat.8537:

I think this is unlikely to get a definitive answer, because the only way to find out for sure would be for someone with 1-2 unused level 80 boosts to buy another one.

Or someone from ArenaNet responds to this excellent question in the thread. When I saw the item, I assumed you need a shared slot, it’s not included. I also assumed you get the equipement, bags etc. but now I’m not sure.

Yes, A response from Anet staff would be nice. I would assume that whenever it includes the shared slot or not, it would act like an normal lvl 80 booster, with all “teleports you to SW, getting the bags etc.”

Yet in my personal opinion, 2000 gems for level 80 boost alone is slightly “too much”, as it “forces” the buyer to buy the 2800 gems pack, which is 35€.

Of course, you still get 800 gems to spend for something else but in a sense, 35€ for lvl 80 boost alone is in my personal opinion a bit too much.

But if the 2000 gems booster would include the “shared slot” as well, then I would (again) find the price be in somewhat good place. Given that the shared slot costs 700 gems. Yet again you could argue that you can buy the shared slot as well IF you buy the 35€ gem pack, but yeah.. It would feel better/make more sense for me if it would include the shared slot in the first place.

Or you can buy 1600 gems and get 400 gems with gold which is 109 gold at this second. Not really that much if you don’t want to spend cash.

FrizzFreston.5290:

A timer site? Seriously Vayne, at least use TacO. :P
(At least, so you dont have to open a site, I generally have everything off except for the day night timer)

I must say though, it’s very immersion breaking to go out of the game, look up a timer to do certain events. Yeah it is the way to do it successfully , but its definitely not an ideal or elegant experience in my opinion. Its not seamless or fluid.

But my personal opinion aside, I dont really understand how people cant find anything, unless they are not using the tools available to them.

Sorry I forget that people don’t have a second monitor. Or a timer site on their phone. I generally don’t prefer overlays.

Celtic Lady.3729:

Vayne.8563:

Celtic Lady.3729:

I think they’re going to have to do something about the jungle maps once the new expansion comes out. No one plays on them anymore basically and after the xpac, even fewer people will bother. Also, these empty maps will turn off new players wanting to do the story and content but not being able to due to lack of players.

Why would you say no one plays them anymore, when I have people in my guild playing them every day, leveling masteries, getting colletiions done, on full maps. The new maps are played every hour of the day and night, following the event cycles. If you don’t believe me, I can show you.

If you go into random maps and random times, it’s harder to get stuff done, but even then, people play those maps. But at any hour, following the event cycles, there are always people in those zones and in fact, full maps in those zones.

I can’t ever find a map that does the Dragon Stand meta event so I can get 100% completion. Also, I have a hard time getting any meta event except for maybe Verdant Brink, which seems to have a few players some of the time.

I’ve ;done dragon stand every hour of every day and five times in the last two weeks. It’s always done when it’s up.

You get to a timer site, you get to the zone 5 minutes early, you join a squad. When the zone closes, you make sure to get to the map with the commander as fast as possible. I have a 100% success rate for getting into maps that go all the way, and I’ve done this at least once a week since HoT’s launch, often more.

If you’re not using a timer site and the LFG tool, you’ll likely not get anything done in HoT. It doesn’t mean things aren’t being done. It means you’re not showing up where they’re being done.

How can anyone possibly think karma is useless? I mean if nothing else you can buy pact network supplies with them. I have just under 4 million karma right now and I’ll be spending a million of it pretty soon. It’s the fastest way to get obby shards if you’re making legendaries. All the minis in the new LS zones require a boatload of karma. If they removed karma from dailies that would suck for me.

Writs of XP don’t really do anything for me, though.

That’s very funny. Good job.

VanHalenRules.5243:

I plan on doing that too… Well, not 9 copies but one or 2 extras for the login rewards as well because since I quit gold farming last year, the extra login rewards can help craft and such while still just going to where I have the most fun… which has been wvw lately (which SUCKS for gold earning).

I always wondered though whether or not Anet cares about stuff like this. I hope not, because like you said, it’s supporting them.

Why would they care? It’s not breaking any rules.

I have eight accounts. I get mystic coins, t6 mats from laurels. I got most of them for $10 when they were on sale (just the core account). Definitely was worth it for me.

MagneHyakulegger.1064:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Sorry to hear you find it lacking. It would seem, though, that tens of thousands, if not more, find it, at the very least, adequate. Even preferable to being led around. It’s a core principle of the game, this freedom to do as one desires.

I desire to be at the same level as high-end raiders. I imagine everyone wants to. However, without putting lots of effort outside the game to learn how to have the same equipment they do, it is impossible. All I am asking for is an in-game path. Do you disagree that new players should have a guide to creating ascended equipment?

The history of this sort of thing goes back a long way, all the way back to Guild Wars 1. In part of the Guild Wars Beyond story arc, there was a chapter called Heats of The North. In this chapter, Anet put something in that was virtually impossible to find by looking in the game. It would have taken months at least for most people. And when people complained about it, Anet said they wanted the community to come together and figure out stuff together….it’s a conscious decision they made.

They did something similar with a character called Nicolas the Traveler. Someone would find him every week (he moved around randomly) and post his location in the wiki.

Now you may not like this style of game, but it is in fact, a deliberate choice by Anet based on what they what to accomplish.

I’m not always so fond of it myself, but I’ve certainly grown more used to it.

I enjoy this game better with the liberal use of half a dozen websites.

Or you might need to activate it on a single character and then you’d be able to use it account wide.

See this is precisely the reason I come to this game and not other games. If I wanted to be led around by the nose, I’d play a game with walls of text and arrows leading me to stars on the map. Because that’s much more exciting.

Sometimes the fun in a game is figuring out what to do. I’m guessing you’ve never played any of the old Ultima games. lol

Gliding is pretty big in my opinion.

Djinn.9245:

Amaimon.7823:

Djinn.9245:

Mara.6782:

Living stories are made for veteran players in mind and are harder than core game. You need to master dodging and your skills and have updated armor and weapons.

This is what I don’t understand – why doesn’t Anet want all players to be able to experience the Stories?

Because if you design your story for the most casual of players in mind, you will lose 90% of your playerbase as they all die of boredom.

“The story” is not the same as “the game”. Most MMOs tell their stories through normal PvE content and separate the truly challenging content into Dungeons or Raids which are ABOUT the story but don’t wall off important parts of it behind the challenge.

GW2 walls off ALL the most important parts of the story (all of the episode ends) behind huge boss fights which lots of people find very difficult and don’t complete.

Most MMOs I’ve seen have story that ends in dungeons and raids. I know if you followed the only elite quest chain in Rift, it lead through every dungeon and the last chapter was the first raid.

Doesn’t really matter to me if I’m riding inside a car or riding on top of a horse. Cars were created to replace horses, to deal with the problem of too much crap on the sidewalks. They were created to solve a pollution problem (irony in and of itself).

To that end they’re both tools to get from what place to another, whether you’re riding inside one or not.

People used to ride horses to get to the next town, now they ride cars. I’m not sure I see any real difference at all. Hell you have to feed both of them too.

Zok.4956:

JTGuevara.9018:

Now that season 3 has come to a close, I have to say: I’m disappointed. Season 3 is a mess. It’s incoherent. The story lacked focus and was clearly rushed to promote the expansion. Honestly, it failed. It didn’t promote me and hold my interest. It was juggling too many plot elements at once. Dragons, Dragon’s Watch, Lazarus, Balthazar, Shining Blade!! Frankly, I’m burnt out. Livia was just…meh. I just didn’t care as much anymore.

You forgot Caudecus.

Caudecus was behind the White Mantle, but Lazarus was revived and replaced Caudecus and became the new head of the White Mantle. The White mantle attacked Divinity’s Reach. But hey, it was not Lazarus, it was Balthazar. Ok, then lets revive Lazarus ourselves, just to kill him easily. Oh, and the magic maybe woke up a Dragon, or two.

In think that was the “main” storyline of Season 3 in short.

Maybe Guild-Wars-1 fans get goosebumps when some Guild-Wars-1 characters where re-used. But the story writing failed in introducing them properly, so that GW2-players care about them enough and they are not just “flat nonames with a name”.

Every season has good and bad episodes. I do not know if Season 2 is better or worse than Season 3. Season 1 also has bad episodes. But for me, the best, epic and emotionally engaging episodes are still in Season 1.

Okay Lazarus didn’t replace Caudecaus. Lazarus and Caudecus split. That is to say some of the white mantle followed one, some of the white mantle followed the other. But Balthazar had interest in the bloodstone and it’s power, not the white mantle itself. Once he had that power, he was pretty much off to do his own thing, which we know know is getting more power.

The white mantle that were loyal to Caudecaus were the ones who attacked DR. I did follow the story and it’s not as bad as you’re making it out.

zealex.9410:

All Matters Fecal.9560:

Ryan.6951:

I don’t think you’re qualified to make assumptions about me Ori, or assertions about directx performance.

If you really think modern APIs play no part in how well an engine can perform, a quick google can immediately find mountains of data to explain why that’s not correct.

Yet the devs haven’t announced any DirectX changes. Clearly you know something about their game that they don’t?

You should apply for a position at ArenaNet and tell them how to do it.

They are the same devs that said no to buildtemplates back then and now they wonna add them.

I’d love to see a quote where they said there would be no build templates in this game. All they ever said, to my knowledge, was we don’t plan on adding them at this time. Since this is a different time, I’d call that accurate.

Djinn.9245:

Abakk.9176:

If GW2 devs stripped and copied every feature in WoW and introduced it in their own game, it still wouldn’t be WoW.

If they completely destroy the entire leveling process because ‘hurr endgame durr’, THEN it will be like WoW.

Anet already did that. They destroyed the leveling process starting with Tomes of Knowledge and Birthday scrolls and finished with the New Player Experience and 80 boosts.

No, they didn’t destroy the leveling process. Source: People in my guild who still take their time leveling. Tomes of knowledge are a choice .Anet said play how you want. They’re giving some people an option to play how THEY want.

Are you forced to use a scroll or tomes of knowledge. Nope

The leveling process is still very much in play.

Flatley.1620:

Vayne.8563:

Flatley.1620:

I came grom EQ2 and one of the things that nade me leave (aside from the ProsiebenSat fiasco) was the constant grind. Now, I realise I don’t have to do it but getting ascended stuff does feel like a grind and/or a gold sync.

There are no MMOs without grind. There are very few MMOs with optional grind. Though the difference here is one you have it, you have it, since there won’t be another new tier of gear. I’m using the same ascended gear on some of my characters for two years now. Try doing that in most MMOs.

Oh I agree with you in that it’s totally optional; I wast just saying it was a grind if that’s what you chose to do so. The main reason for my leaving my previous was the sucky deal from the company but the grind added to the issue.

And wasn’t one of the reasons Centaur left Gw2 was because of the ascended grind/introduction? Memory is hazy there however…

Centaur left because of the introduction of ascended gear, not the grind itself. That is to say the grindy bit wasn’t really in the game when he left, since it was only trinkets at that point.

Flatley.1620:

I came grom EQ2 and one of the things that nade me leave (aside from the ProsiebenSat fiasco) was the constant grind. Now, I realise I don’t have to do it but getting ascended stuff does feel like a grind and/or a gold sync.

There are no MMOs without grind. There are very few MMOs with optional grind. Though the difference here is one you have it, you have it, since there won’t be another new tier of gear. I’m using the same ascended gear on some of my characters for two years now. Try doing that in most MMOs.

Mounts won’t be out in combat, so if you’re fighting there’s no mount clutter. It’s entirely possible you won’t be able to use mounts in cities

It’s still not WoW. Raids are different here than they are in WoW. They’re really ten man difficult dungeons. They can be done in any order. There’s no real progression. There’s no tanking at least in the same sense as WoW raids. In fact, this is a very different game to WoW.

Mounts have been announced but they seem very different to the mounts in WoW. I mean both WoW and Guild Wars 2 have combat, but the combat is completely different. Why can’t mounts be completely different too

People have been saying this isn’t WoW since the beginning, and they’re right. Because I can get the highest stats in the game without ever setting foot in a raid. Hell I can just craft it if I want.

This game has tons of stuff that exist in WoW. Levels, swords, classes, boons and conditions …they call exist in WoW> This game also have PvE and PvP which exist in WoW. The simple fact of having something called the same thing, doesn’t mean it’s the same in practice.

It’s like Rift having dynamic events…but not abandoning traditional quest hubs. They may be called dynamic events but it was a completely different animal.

Kormeg.2469:

Based off of the fact that not a single persistent glider skin is available outside of the gem store, coupled with the fact that the expansion is only $30 I can almost guarantee that;
1. There WILL be mount skins,
2. They will most likely only be in the gem store.

:<

Actually there is a single glider skin you can get without the gem store, and they’ve recently improved it. That’s the glider skin that comes with the Fratal legendary backpack. While I agree with your assessment, I have that glider skin and I didn’t pay for it,

But yeah, it seems unlikely that skins like that will be in game.

Celtic Lady.3729:

I think they’re going to have to do something about the jungle maps once the new expansion comes out. No one plays on them anymore basically and after the xpac, even fewer people will bother. Also, these empty maps will turn off new players wanting to do the story and content but not being able to due to lack of players.

Why would you say no one plays them anymore, when I have people in my guild playing them every day, leveling masteries, getting colletiions done, on full maps. The new maps are played every hour of the day and night, following the event cycles. If you don’t believe me, I can show you.

If you go into random maps and random times, it’s harder to get stuff done, but even then, people play those maps. But at any hour, following the event cycles, there are always people in those zones and in fact, full maps in those zones.

Honestly HoT probably kept me in the game. The core game open world was too easy for me, and I’m not a huge fan of instances. If anything this last year with all the living story stuff has been my favorite time in game. I’m loving this. So much so that I’ve stopped worrying about raids and legendary armor, which I’ll never get, because I don’t enjoy raiding enough to do it.

But there’s still a ton of stuff for me to do, and I’m having a blast.

Djinn.9245:

DeanBB.4268:

@Djinn: It’s difficult to properly respond when we haven’t played the game yet. I can’t imagine dismounting is any more difficult that pressing a key. So now it’ll be <dismount key> + <jump key> rather than just <jump key>. Is that really a big deal?

I’m not asking for experience. Perhaps you aren’t familiar with running across the map jumping & gliding as you go. It’s very fun. But all it requires is pressing your space bar as you go. Like hyperactive people who like just jumping as they run. It is seamless.

What you are describing isn’t a big deal and I never said my question was a big deal, but it isn’t exactly seamless either.

Don’t use your mount, run and glide all you want. Not sure what the big deal is. Gliding should work the same it always does. If you’re mounted it won’t but you won’t have to be on your mount all the time. There’ll be chasms you have to jump maybe, so you jump on your mount, jump the chasm and then run and glide again. It’s like using a jumping mushroom or anything else.

kdaddy.5431:

Map design should not be how you say something is innovative or not. Obviously its hard to say nothing is crazy new with all the MMO out there but the maps?

The way gliding was put in there, yes that was great with the updrafts and lines. very cool. The way you get them ummm very basic. pick a line and get XP. Aion and many other games had gliding.

Also you picked the very easy AP to do so please i think we will end it there with that. Obviously there are many rinse and repeat quests and achievements as well as very easy ones.

Another point, no new tiers of gear? So from exotic to ascended to legendary and now legendary trinkets. I must of missed the memo where there are no new tiers of gear.

Many games before did not raise the level bar either so thats not new either especially with GW1 and many games taking into the skill and acquiring different skills as a way of progression.

So to use your example HOT is a movie and its called Before i Fall, its about a girl who repeats her day.

Yet games like WoW, Aion, Champions Online City of Heros are Ground Hogs Day. Its a movie about a guy who repeats each day.

The reason you like Before i Fall better and why its innovative is because the lighting in the movie is so much better.

Like i said before Anet took other ideas and things in other games and put the GW2 shiny bow on it.

The creativity that goes into those maps is what makes those maps great and what keeps me there. So many ways to get to the same areas or different areas, So many shortcuts. That’s true creativity. It’s innovation to have paths open up as masteries are unlocked. You may not agree, but I’d be surprised if you could find another MMO that does it.

Innovation doesn’t mean, again that no one has done it. Those zones are highly innovative for the genre. Anet is breaking boundaries. They’re crossing genres. Some people don’t like that, some do, but it’s definitely daring.

Anet also tried to make a true “living world” and there were a million complaints and so they had to dial it back. But it was definitely innovative.

The fact is, since this game feels like no other MMO to me, it’s innovative. It’s different and fresh and I’m not the only one saying that. Your mileage may vary. That’s an opinion. You’re entitled to that.

But it doesn’t change the fact that many do see this as an innovative game, even if you don’t.

kdaddy.5431:

I agree that its a PvE game now.

You couldnt say that before with many people being WvW and PvP only players like with teh lady who interviewed MO and he said " if you play WvW you play PvE" which turned alot of people off.

I just wanted to point out that Vayne, you said “WvW was never on life support” and that is clearly incorrect.

Also the declining PvP and WvW population obviously has no effect on the PvE scene. But your acting as if i havent played the game.

I have almost 29k AP and recently quit playing, you can sit here and say they were " innovative" maybe at the start of GW2. You can not say that HOT was since it took bits and pieces of other games such as Aion and City of Heros. (other NCSoft games)

The game has felt repetitive since HOT, with only 4 maps to play. Achievements like do X meta event 100 times. Do X meta event to collect items to craft new items and repeat for 3 of the maps.

Dont say its innovative when they put the GW2 spin on something thats been done 1000 times.

As for the expansion they talked alot about going back to the roots of GW2. That would lead me to believe that HOT didnt go in the favor of those clamoring to the defense of HOT as a whole.

Once again i dont like HOT but if other people do, more to ya. Yet i will not pretend as if the games population hasnt downed because it has and i will not pretend Anet did something amazing because they took a old toy and put a new bow on it and called it innovative.

I don’t know what you’ve played and what you’ve haven’t played what what MMO has map design like HoT? The way gliding was used is innovative, particularly in an MMO. The fact is, I’ve played a lot of MMOs and none of them feel like this one.

You’re looking at individual features, I’m looking at the entirety of the game. You can have two novels using the exact same words and one of them can still be innovative while the other isn’t.

Saying something existed before so therefore if it’s used is there’s no innovation isn’t true. Anet is not the first MMO to use dynamic events. But it is the first MMO to abandon standard quests in favor of them. Warhammer had public quests, but you still leveled via the quest hub system. So did Rift. In that case the innovation came from having the bottle to go all in on dynamic events.

I say HoT is innovative because all up I’ve never actually played anything like it. As for your using the 100 times you have to do AB to get an achievement as an example, that’s a bit disingenuous, considering how many achievements there are that don’t require specific repetition. You’re quoting the exception as the rule and it is the exception.

Take the mastery points in DS for example. Every one of them came from doing an event, or finding a chest or performing some skill. The longest glide in TD was a great achievement. Going under the arches in AB isn’t grindy. Getting the chest while stealthing past snipers in TD isn’t grindy.

But the map design in HOT is truly unique in MMO space certainly. There’s nothing else out there like it. And the focus on the open world instead of on raids and dungeons, that’s pretty out there too, as is not raising the level cap, or introducing new tiers of gear.

You can say that it’s grindy but if you’re only quoting the most extreme example, I’d say the evidence isn’t necessarily on your side.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

No, I’m sorry, I have to disagree with your assessment.

I don’t think you understand it anyway. So yeah it’s pointless to continue to discuss it.

I understand you’re saying they’re not innovating as much and I disagree. Whatever your reasons,. my own observations don’t support the argument to begin with. You’re right, not much point in going further.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

Oh I get it. Then you’re saying that after the game was out for three years, they were innovative again two years ago, during which time they’re making another expansion which may or may not have innovation in it.

Of course, they’ve had several things between the expansions which some may consider innovative as well. No company is going to be innovative every two weeks, because every time you come up with something, you’ve got to take the time to develop it would could take months or even years. So if the last expansion was innovative, and we’re getting another expansion two years later and it’s innovative, or if there’s innovative stuff in it, then the game remains innovative.

Even then, I believe there’s innovative stuff even in some of the fights between the expansions or some of the fractals.

So yes, I don’t agree Anet is not innovating, even now.

I never said they aren’t innovating at all, I said (or meant to say) that the concept of the game is about innovating is more of a natural thing rather than something special that was barely mentioned in the manifesto. At least lately.

They have been more conservative and holding back much of the innovation, rather than releasing it, if you believe Mike O’s words recently anyway. They aren’t doing big overhauls anymore like they did before HoT. Innovation is taking a step back for innovation when it is much more logical to innovate.

Exactly why i would say the whole argument that a game is in concept about innovation is not true anymore. Which game doesn’t bring out updates which innovates their own design? What is making Guild Wars 2 special is their original concept, not that they said that they want to bring new experiences. I can’t see many game developers saying. Oh yeah, we will be adding “more of the same”. GW2 is all about innovation? Ehh not that much at the moment. And I’m fairly glad it isn’t.

It used to be that they changed things alot more, recently they have began settling on a certain structure and been building on that, rather than reiterating on that structure.

And ofcourse, the game remains unique (not innovating), but it hasn’t really been changing all that much, if not adding things to the game that have been proven before to be popular.. like raids and mounts and some smaller gadgets that don’t impact the game in a big way. People claiming that Guild Wars 2 is becoming more run of the mill, forget ofcourse that this is a system build on GW2 foundation. Not on original MMO foundation. So GW2 will never be a traditional MMO even with parts that are also in other MMOs.

I think you’re misinterpreting MO’s words. The problems that existed in this game pre-hot were supposed to be fixed by the changes made when HoT was released.

End game progression after level 80 was a major issue in this game. A lot of people get to 80, don’t know what to do and leave. Enter elite specs and masteries, one character bound and one account bound.

The idea was to add the stuff that was missing with HOT and then build on those systems, not to keep coming out with new systems.

This isn’t being more cautious, nor is it not innovating. HoT was the skeleton on which to build. You can still build creatively on that skeleton.

No, I’m sorry, I have to disagree with your assessment.

road range.6293:

Very skeptical. As history tends to repeat itself.

..It just seems they are always doing everything they say they never will. And not doing things they always say they will. The history is all still out there to be re-read. “We will never have mounts, especially not flying ones.” “We will never have raids.”…etc. Now it’s all about raids, and mounts, and more unneeded elite specs and weapons. And, it’s surely so complicated by now, that most new comers must be completely overwhelmed, and completely baffled by the complexity. Not to mention for experienced players.

Every new story line, and every new expansion, they try to completely reinvent the game, not, expand on it. Zero continuity IMHO. (one small simple example) What happened to Aurene? Our precious new dragon that really drew us in, to help raise and cherish? Poof, scratch that, never mind, new game, new weapons, new skills, new story line, new gold sinks, start over. …We’ll do a small cameo appearance for her 7 years from now?? Pay fetch with her, become her caregiver, then never see her again? Uninspiring follow up. (Unless such content is in there, which… I’m highly skeptical)

Getting all new elite specialties and weapons is not appealing to me at all. Quite the opposite. It means we all MUST relearn all professions yet again, as though it is yet another completely new game. And, the previous “new” elite specs, will surely be rendered obsolete. Every single new story line, has been including new and different skills, to be learned anew every time. With zero continuity to game play, and objectives. New unbalanced elite specialties, and new weapons, are sure to make for awkward and muddled game play for almost all players of all types. …Until all the gross imbalances of the new specs are finally found, and exploited, and built around, (of course never fixed). Then, if history repeats itself, THAT one build, and THAT weapon set, will surely become; the one grossly imbalanced favorable build we will all HAVE to use to win fights. Like it or not. Balancing the existing specializations would have been far more meaningful and attractive in the expansion IMO.

TBH, I gave up on relearning most of the HoT professions, which I knew how to use pre-HoT. And, I never have used most characters since then, because of it. And… Why bother? They are surely going to upend it again, once you finally re-learn how to play it, and enjoy it. (And sure enough, it seems, here we go again.) I really don’t want to re-spec and re-learn the whole game again. And, I don’t have time or desire to reinvest in doing that at all. It seems to me that the new elite specs and weapons are designed SOLELY to be a carefully crafted gold sink, rather than anything needed for expanding and improving the game play. Forcing players to re-build, re-armor, and re-weaponize yet again. I don’t think I have it in me. It was fun, and, could have been just improved on. Now it’s just purely annoying to have to start over, …again.

Oddly, as I’ve never even re-spec’d for all the last new elites, this expansion may actually be more of a game ender for me, than a fresh beginning. I would have much rather seen a real re-balance of the current elite specs, than to erase everything and start over yet again.

Mounts. Whatever. Honestly, it sounds like useless, directionless, frustrating, gated material created only to attract and appease a few WoW players. …Not, created because it’s content that actually fits GW2.

On the whole, it really seems (to me anyway) that any really meaningful and hopeful expansion material, such as; the ability for “EVERYONE” to earn Legendary armor. Items that give everyone worthy goals to play for, are potential expansion items that are still completely lost to a few hardcore raiders. Possibly dashed hopes that were traded for mounts that we don’t need, hidden behind gated material, that forces you to play scripted areas. Rather than, expanding the game with useful content items, and contiguous story lines, that we really would want to play for.

We’ll see. Myself, due to recent history and direction since HoT, I’m holding back my money this time around, with skepticism, until I see some genuine positive player feedback from it. And, see something more than just needless mounts, and obligations to drain the bank and completely re-learn, and re-gear all characters, to play for.

Except that Anet never said we’d never have mounts. They only said there won’t be mounts at launch. They never said we won’t have them full stop.

I can help you out if you’re confused. I help lots of people learn HoT. Just hit me up in game on Vayne.8563 .

Way too many assumptions in the OP for my taste. First of all, HoT probably didn’t do as well as expected, but everyone has different theories on why that is. More to the point, the decision not to go retail might have nothing to do with that at all, any more than stopping publishing stuff in cassette form and moving to CD had nothing to do with the popularity of a product. Brick and mortar stores tend to sell less and less computer games and more console games. That’s just how it is.

kdaddy.5431:

Vayne.8563:

kdaddy.5431:

IndigoSundown.5419:

It’s funny. ANet tried some really visionary things for an MMO closer to the start of the game. Things like no levels, easy acquisition of BiS stats, and a near-universal reward currency, with RNG playing little role beyond getting Precursors. The MMO fan base said no to all of that, either directly, or by taking actions which were bad for the health of the game.

As to the “recycled” comment. Yeah, what the heck do you mean by that?

I dont know how you can say that.

Literally its like 50/50 from the people i know.

Many of us loved the LW with the dungeons, World Events and so on. Like the destruction of kessex hills and LA were amazing.

Then you have the other 50% who said " look what i missed out on, thats not fair" and voiced complaints.

Anet probably saw the issue of time. They spend time to create events where people might or might not have time to play it. They have gone very traditional with how this MMO is.

I mean Guild halls are a grind, unlocking new specs are kind of a grind. I mean in GW1 you had to do story, events to unlock skills. Ok that made sense, HOT you really just pick a path to learn and gather XP.

Dont know how you could comment on health of the game from the LS differences. heck PvP and WvW have been on life support for the past 2 years.

WvW has never been on “life support”. It certainly has less players than it did years ago, but that doesn’t equate to life support.

More to the point, it doesn’t matter what 50% of the people anyone knows says, because it’s too small a sampling to be meaningful.

But saying this game has gone traditional when it had an expansion that neither raised the level cap or added a new tier of gear is a bit disingenuous.

Did they add raids? Sure they did. But the raids are still different from raids in most games I’ve played.

I’ve played a LOT of MMOs and this game isn’t anything like most of them…in my opinion anyway.

Ok lets just take it from a real perspective then and not take into account who said what and what nows.

Gw2 WvW players were wanting unique items, some upgrades and different things when HOT came out. The WvW community didnt like it and servers died.

I am on Crystal Desert and before HOT we would fill the servers out by ourselves on Friday night. Before the big WvW patch and now a few weeks after it, 3 servers combined sometimes fills up a border land.

The PvP scene has been dying since the release of HOT with some of the worst metas any game probably has ever seen. Just recently the best team from NA was perma banned from the PvP scene. As well as former PvP players who left the game for months came back for 1 week to win the EU monthly tournament because there is no new blood coming into the scene.

That aside we were talking innovative, Anet said they would not have you go into a cave and collect 10 wings. With the recent map releases that had you repeat 4 hearts each day to make a back piece. The LIVING STORYS are instance like many old time dungeons.

Lets just be frank, the introduction of mounts is not innovative, the way you uprade them yes. The specs and upgrading them yes even though it was very GW1 like. So yes Anet has hit marks with some of hits world events.

But please dont talk as if PvP and WvW didnt hit serious low points because of HOT. At 1 point in WvW my server was combined with 3 other servers. Thats 4 servers on 4 maps and we couldnt fill them.

PvP is literally filled with Alt accounts by the masses of the ESL level players who are near the point of done. You can check there discord chats as well as the fact that hardcore players like helseth are playing other games seriously instead of GW2.

I’m not talking about WvW or PvP. I seldom do. However, I think you’ll find most of this playerbase has been PvE since launch, by a large margin. Polls seem to back that up anyway.

So yes, if you are one of the players who ONLY WvW and PvP, then maybe, just maybe you don’t find this game innovative and you don’t like the expansions.

But the game itself has been since launch, focused on PvE where is where the bulk of the innovation is found.

I personally wouldn’t be concerned if both PvP and WvW were removed from the game completely. It wouldn’t affect me negatively at all. But since the bulk of the expansion coming out is PvE (WvW and PvP weren’t really mentioned even), I’ll continue to say this game is innovative

And even then PvP in most MMOs requires grinding PvE to get leveled up. Structured PvP here is quite unusual in MMO space.

chemie banger.9624:

I know I couldn’t find a map today to do dragon’s stand daily.

Content for existing zones like the old living story 1 maybe \o/

Dragon Stand is on a timer. If you go off timer, you won’t find people on the map, ever., That’s always been the case.

So you go to a timer site, show up for the start of the event, maybe five minutes early, you join a squad and the map is fine.

People in my guild have done dragon stand all day and since I’m in Australia, I’ve done it at just about every time imaginable. There is NEVER a time when that meta event comes up and it’s not being done.

The fault isn’t division of players, it’s the bad communication from the company about how the timer works and even how LFG works.

I promise you it’s not the location in the world that’s the issue. It’s the game doing a bad job of explaining how to find an active server, and generally when the server will be active.

Dragonstand is the only map in the game like it, since the entire map is essentially one giant event chain.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Carighan.6758:

BrotherBelial.3094:

When guild wars 2 launched it was going to step away from traditional MMOs. But in truth it’s creeped slowly to being just like every other MMO out there.

Weird how that works out, considering virtually all feedback the first 2-3 years was how they didn’t do things like WoW / FF / Whatever did them.

Curious. Some might fault them for listening to their community I guess. I mean the mount threads alone could probably fill their own forum, over the past 5 years.

The whole reason I enjoy plying guild wars 2 same for guild wars, was because it was notn5he same as the other games with its core game play. Now it’s is the same. For every person that wanted guild wars 2 to be the same as other MMOs there where players who did not. So no they didn’t listen to there players they listened to half of them and went against what they said at the start. For years they said mounts where too hard and the waypoint system was meant to fill this gap.

But I’ve said my bit, generic MMO here we come.

Saying it’s the same doesn’t make it the same. There’s still dynamic events that scale rather than a standard questing model. The way you move, and the way the new zones have been laid out and the way the story works…I’ve played a lot of MMOs.

I’ve never played one that keeps the level cap the same or that doesn’t introduce new tiers of gear with every expansion.

This game is plenty different then other games, and even the mounts seem different from those in other games from what we’ve seen.

A word can be the same word and still be different. For example Rift and Guild Wars 2 both have dynamic events, but since Rift never abandoned quest hubs and static quests, and when it came out it had no events that chained, or different pass fail states, they were two different versions of dynamic events. The ones in Rift didn’t do anything for me, the ones here did. Same word.

You’re taking the word mounts and saying mounts are bad full stop. That’s an opinion based on someone who just has issues with mounts in general.

These don’t seem to be anything like mounts in other games.

I think the break bar is fantastic. There are only a handful of encounters you have to think about it on (Bat Guano, Vinetooth Prime, Ignus and Aethus) but on most creatures it’s not that big a deal. Makes this a little faster, but doesn’t matter if you don’t care about it.

Every encounter doesn’t have to be kitten easy.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.

First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.

The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.

The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.

Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.

Which is something completely different than the original argument.

Either way, what obviously I meant was that Gw2 hasn’t overhauled anything since the launch of HoT that one can complain now about too much innovation. (Or claim that that is what the game is about)

I don’t know. Launching an expansion that neither raises the level cap or introduces a new tier of gear is pretty innovative in the MMO space. The design of the HoT zones are innovative as well. Never said anything like them in an MMO.

You may not believe it’s innovative, but that’s simply an opinion. I think, like core, there more innovation in HoT than meets the eye.

How does saying since the launch of HoT not include HoT? Maybe it’s a language thing, but I thought it would be obvious that mentioning the launch of HoT as a time point of the word since does mean that it would include HoT itself.

So yeah, Masteries are fairly innovative, I agree. Sorry if I worded it so you misunderstood.

Oh I get it. Then you’re saying that after the game was out for three years, they were innovative again two years ago, during which time they’re making another expansion which may or may not have innovation in it.

Of course, they’ve had several things between the expansions which some may consider innovative as well. No company is going to be innovative every two weeks, because every time you come up with something, you’ve got to take the time to develop it would could take months or even years. So if the last expansion was innovative, and we’re getting another expansion two years later and it’s innovative, or if there’s innovative stuff in it, then the game remains innovative.

Even then, I believe there’s innovative stuff even in some of the fights between the expansions or some of the fractals.

So yes, I don’t agree Anet is not innovating, even now.

I’m a long time player. I have no problem with this. Therefore, you can’t say horrible service to long term players. It’s simply your opinion, which most people here seem to disagree with, many of who are also long term players.

Virtually every game I’ve ever bought gets cheaper three years later, but I still buy the next game in the expansion.

I find this mount aversion perplexing. A mount, at least in this case, is like a tool. If I didn’t like keys, I wouldn’t avoid locked doors. I’d pick up the key, open the lock put the key away and not think about it.

This just feels like taking a stand to just to take a stand to me.

I don’t like mounts because immersion. How is a mount less immersive than walking everywhere? There are animals in the game. Races domesticate animals (including devourers used by charr in the game), seems to me that nothing could be more natural than riding a mount…for immersion.

In truth walking everywhere doesn’t make as much sense as riding a mount.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.

First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.

The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.

The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.

Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.

Which is something completely different than the original argument.

Either way, what obviously I meant was that Gw2 hasn’t overhauled anything since the launch of HoT that one can complain now about too much innovation. (Or claim that that is what the game is about)

I don’t know. Launching an expansion that neither raises the level cap or introduces a new tier of gear is pretty innovative in the MMO space. The design of the HoT zones are innovative as well. Never said anything like them in an MMO.

You may not believe it’s innovative, but that’s simply an opinion. I think, like core, there more innovation in HoT than meets the eye.

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vayne.8563:

You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.

First of all, why are you explaining explicit details of a tongue in the cheek comment?
Second of all, I know what was said, and I’m not taking anything out of context more than you’re taking the innovation part of the manifesto out of context.
That was the whole point. The Manifesto is outdated on pretty much all the parts.
Third of all, the reason that people say ArenaNet lied is because personalized storyline doesn’t exist anymore. I never claimed anything otherwise. “Was” being the obvious key word here.

The concept of this game isn’t innovation as a standard concept at all anyway.

The concept of the game is innovative, not because of how any individual aspect of it has been created but by how all the aspects together combine to form what is the game.

Shakespeare created only a few words. The rest of them all existed. How he put them together is why he’s remembered today.

Not sure what was promised, so the promise is not broken.

And a dev said that Balthazar used the white mantle to access the bloodstone. Presumably he was in a weakened state for reasons we’ve yet to learn. Once he absorbed that power he basically stole their resources and hired mercenaries, but he still needs more power.

He didn’t reveal himself to be Balthazar by choice. We did that to him. If I had to guess he probably underestimated us. Or he was done with the white mantle and no longer needed his disguise.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Raine.1394:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Mil.3562:

Another grindfest expansion? Nice.

There are no MMO’s that are without time sinks. That’s the nature of the genre.

Back on topic, I too wish ANet well.

This is absolutely true. And, I love grinding in an MMO; I believe the presence of grinds does nothing but enrich the game. The only distinction I make is between optional grinds and non-optional grinds. Some non-optional grinds are necessary in your typical MMO: 1-max level anyone? It’s just that post max level I would prefer that the game would shift away from non-optional grinds to more and more optional ones. An example of a non-optional grind would be any grind that increases your power level, so vertical progression would be an example of a non-optional grind. You simply must keep up with the power curve or you eventually won’t be able to play. But basically any grind that advances the core game would be by definition non-optional.

But the options around optional grinds are endless in a modern MMO. I would like to see evidence that this is a principle at Anet. The Anet that released GW2 was principle rich. In fact, this is what caused me to purchase and play GW2 since before it was released. Currently, principles, design principles, get short shrift at Anet. Perhaps with the addition of VandenBerghe to the team there will be a return to a thoughtful design philosophy.

I’m having trouble identifying a non-optional grind in GW2. For some, Ascended will be non-optional, but actually needing Ascended as opposed to wanting it involves choosing to do high level FotM or choosing to enter PuG raid groups with gear requirements (if that’s even still a thing).

I do think though that the game development philosophy has shifted from, “Focus more on creating lots of interesting things to do, with rewards as an afterthought.” to something more like, “Add a few interesting things to do, along with a new map currency and several optional things to buy with it.” Thing is, I don’t really expect that to change, because I think that a lot of MMO fans care more about the carrot than the journey.

Well with HoT they did try to give people optional things to do. How many adventures are in HoT? They’re all optional things to do with their own leaderboards. And sometimes I’ll go and play fallen masks, just for fun because I enjoy it. Bugs in the Branches too. They’re like Sanctum Sprint was originally, except on a smaller scale.

And there are still jumping puzzles coming out. Completing new maps is also a thing to do. The leather farm is a thing to do. New Fractals are a thing to do

Saying that they were originally coming out with interesting things to do, and now they’re not doesn’t make sense. What was in the game originally? Dungeons, personal stories, minigames, open world map exploration, world bosses/metas, crafting. They’re still coming out with all of those things.

If anything, to me, the scavenger hunts and current events and quests like the calabolg quest are all new things to do. What’s really changed?

FrizzFreston.5290:

Inculpatus cedo.9234:

Gee, I thought their original concept was to be innovative. I mean, that’s what they said even before the game launched. (It’s even in the Manifesto.)

They also said they would have a personalized storyline before the game launched. (Was also even in the manifesto) =P

Though saying that innovation is part of Guild Wars 2 now is pretty much a stretch. Just some new gadgets in a map, doesn’t feel all that innovative to me. They had lots of stuff like that in the game since launch, which then got removed from starter zones because they were confusing. (??? what) And now they just add them to the latest maps without even thinking whether it might get a bit too much for some people.

What they meant by a personalized storyline was that it was different for different characters. Two human warriors in WoW follow the same story. Two human warriors in Guild Wars 2, not necessarily.

You’re taking the literal definition of what was said out of context. Within the context of MMOs, the personal story was personalized.