Guild Wars 2

Aliven.4056:

@Vayne
That is problem for that players. If you skip tutorial in a game you dont know how to play this is only your fault. The devs give you tools, and if you dont want to use them then be ready for consequesnces.

Also there is not a single reason to NOT make a tutorial and a tutorial section of the game should be THE best part of the game.

Gating things is not the answer. Teaching how to use tools you gain is a way. Giving more solution for the problems is the way. Not striping us from the tools.

Actually it’s a problem for the devs. If a player skips the tutorial and leaves the game, it doesn’t help the game. Sure it’s his fault, but it’s Anet’s problem. That’s the problem in a nutshell. More people need to stay after starting.

Corpus Christi.2057:

Lol, Kaiyanwayn. I’m afraid you’re going to get reported for this comment soon by some white knight.:P

Vayne, I think you and your guild are some kind of “special type” of people. Whenever there are some changes that are almost unanimously disliked by the community, both here and at reddit, and you can read them all over the chat in GW2, you fellas seem to love those changes. You guys are some merry men, that’s nice to see here!:D
Well, you are allowed to, ofc, but it smells rather… weird.

As far as I know, no one in my guild liked the trait changes, though.

Edit: You know, I think that it’s more than that. My guild is casual and I think most players are casual. And most casual people don’t post on forums. So my casual guild, which mostly doesn’t post on forums like the changes.

The forums, of course, are going to be made up of harder core players. The casual playerbase won’t get the same representation here. So it’s not really strange that a casual guild likes shinies and bells and whistles more than a hard core guild. You guys look at mechanics, we look at flavor.

Are there more of us, or more of you?

MAUS HOUS.8047:

Galen Grey.4709:

because episodes this year are 4x-5x as long as last year.

Each living story update last year consisted of a single 30 min or so story instance. this year there are 4 – 5 such instance every single release.

Hmm, I can see what you mean but when you compare the total amount of content, such as super adventure box which was MASSIVE and the twisted marionette AND the jungle wurm, each with their own story instances aswell, it just seems like half the effort. I agree that the story instances are much longer then they used to be but they’re drawn out with lots of combat and that doesnt take long to program since it’s already in the game.

You can’t really ignore Dry Top though. We’re not just getting five story chapters. We’re getting five story chapters with new rewards, new mobs with new mechanics, new events, a new area that’s growing before our eyes.

It’s easy to look at the old living story and say that it was bigger, but I’m not sure that was the case. Probably the biggest one would have been the Lion’s Arch changes.

Edit: The Nightmare Tower is a good example. It was six weeks, until we get into it. It wasn’t the Nightmare Tower every two weeks. First we learned about it. Then for two weeks we had to gather spores and do spore events, so we had three new bosses in Kessex and a new 10 minute scene for those two weeks. Then we get into the Nightmare Tower. Then we have a new instance afterwards, and a long break for that time. You may think the Nightmare Tower was a big update…and it was. It was huge. But it was still a couple of months where that was the only LS content.

BlueZone.4236:

Beldin.5498:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

The evidence is in their game, but thanks for derailing this topic because it’s not heading your way.

Actually its not in their game. Because every wow clone (which are actually better games in many aspects) would be as popular as wow.

So….no.

You call them WoW clones, so why bother playing them while knowing they are clones? Just play the original.
Where “WoW clones” may be better in a few aspect, WoW does better as a whole package. That’s why it remained popular in the first place.

So, yes!

You see, and thats why your claim is pretty much….not very applicable.

WoW was right product at the right place at the right time, not better or worse than the lot, nothing more noting less. Its not first product of that type and its not last. Stars align from time to time to allow that.

It’s ok if you don’t like WoW.
It did better than the competition because it was overall a better game than games before it and games after it

Personally for me EQ2 was by far the better game .. however WoWs main advantages
were that their engine ran on crappy hardware, and that they had all those Blizzard
Fans from Warcraft, Starcraft and Diablo .. and i bet without them it had also been
just another MMO.

In ANet’s case, we could also say GW1’s reputation helped GW2’s success.
The difference is that ANet didn’t know how to keep building on its success like what Blizzard did with WoW.

I don’t know of that’s true. I’m not sure Guild Wars 2 could have built on Guild Wars 1’s success. Guild Wars 1 was always going to be a niche game. Nothing that wasn’t Guild Wars 1 would have likely appealed to Guild Wars 1 players.

It’s so easy to say things are being done wrong. The problem is no one really knows if they were done differently if it would have worked out better.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

amimeta.4960:

…

It would be nice to know if a one-time tutorial, which deals with all the aspects of the gameplay (like dodging, downstate, healing skills, utility skills, elite skills, weaponswap, etc.), would have the same effect for you, rather than the current implementation.
While I agree that the level-up rewards shift the focus to the leveling, I’m still highly concerned about the changes.

The problem with tutorials is that many players skip them…because they’re tutorials. Playing the game will make more of an impression than a tutorial to many people. People are anxious to get through the tutorial to get to the game.

It may well work better for some people but I’m not convinced it would work better for the bulk of the population. And I know from experience, sometimes, some people who need tutorials the most are most likely to skip them.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

The evidence is in their game, but thanks for derailing this topic because it’s not heading your way.

Actually its not in their game. Because every wow clone (which are actually better games in many aspects) would be as popular as wow.

So….no.

You call them WoW clones, so why bother playing them while knowing they are clones? Just play the original.
Where “WoW clones” may be better in a few aspect, WoW does better as a whole package. That’s why it remained popular in the first place.

So, yes!

You see, and thats why your claim is pretty much….not very applicable.

WoW was right product at the right place at the right time, not better or worse than the lot, nothing more noting less. Its not first product of that type and its not last. Stars align from time to time to allow that.

It’s ok if you don’t like WoW.
It did better than the competition because it was overall a better game than games before it and games after it (though obviously the game has now hit past its maturity). That’s how you make maintain a successful game.

In any case, I hope pdemo was enlightened by how some of us guessed the concurrency.

It did better than the other three or four big name MMOs out, but that doesn’t make it better. Back in the day, VHS recorders were inferior to beta recorders in almost every way…but VHS was used in more homes and eventually replaced beta. Popularity is no guarantee of quality. I’m sure more people eat at McDonalds than the fine steak house next door to it. Doesn’t mean anything.

If WoW launched at a time when there was 2 or 3 other MMOs, none of which were free to play, and it had an advertising budget (which most games really didn’t), that’s enough to explain its success. Now it might really have been better. That’s a possibility. But I don’t think anything is proved by its success except that it had good timing and good marketing. That’s enough to pretty much get anything to sell.

Word of mouth also affects a game’s success. WoW had a good reputation because players found it fun and overall a good quality game, because it was (still is?).
It’s ok if you don’t find it fun. Other players did, hence its success.

Last post on this topic because it is off-topic but there are as many people who hate WoW as there are who love it, including entire domains that had been set up by WoW haters. My niece, an MMO player called WoW the Evil empire.

But none of this really has anything to do with Guild Wars 2’s concurrency figures anyway. What we can deduce is that the high concurrency number given was from early in the games life and it’s certainly gone down from there, but regardless there are still lots of people playing and the game seems to be doing fine.

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

The evidence is in their game, but thanks for derailing this topic because it’s not heading your way.

Actually its not in their game. Because every wow clone (which are actually better games in many aspects) would be as popular as wow.

So….no.

You call them WoW clones, so why bother playing them while knowing they are clones? Just play the original.
Where “WoW clones” may be better in a few aspect, WoW does better as a whole package. That’s why it remained popular in the first place.

So, yes!

You see, and thats why your claim is pretty much….not very applicable.

WoW was right product at the right place at the right time, not better or worse than the lot, nothing more noting less. Its not first product of that type and its not last. Stars align from time to time to allow that.

It’s ok if you don’t like WoW.
It did better than the competition because it was overall a better game than games before it and games after it (though obviously the game has now hit past its maturity). That’s how you make maintain a successful game.

In any case, I hope pdemo was enlightened by how some of us guessed the concurrency.

It did better than the other three or four big name MMOs out, but that doesn’t make it better. Back in the day, VHS recorders were inferior to beta recorders in almost every way…but VHS was used in more homes and eventually replaced beta. Popularity is no guarantee of quality. I’m sure more people eat at McDonalds than the fine steak house next door to it. Doesn’t mean anything.

If WoW launched at a time when there was 2 or 3 other MMOs, none of which were free to play, and it had an advertising budget (which most games really didn’t), that’s enough to explain its success. Now it might really have been better. That’s a possibility. But I don’t think anything is proved by its success except that it had good timing and good marketing. That’s enough to pretty much get anything to sell.

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

MikaHR.1978:

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

FFXIV is “neck to neck” with GW2 only on raptr, on xfire its no.20 with roughly 1/3 of GW2 numbers. Oh and FFXIV had crapton on discounts on Steam, you could buy it for 10$ at relaunch on Steam.
———————————-
And if you follow THAT line of thought, WoW only has 1 million subs (6,13% vs. 2,86%)

Why dont people THINK it trhough beore they post. Why dont you compare WS now against GW2?

My, my, someone’s so antsy today. Well, that’s ok. I thought you didn’t believe in these stats anyway.
Also, FF14 is on PS3/PS4.

WoW doesn’t have 1 million subs. As the Raptr blog says “The new MMO [WildStar] impacted the playtime of The Elder Scrolls Online, WoW, Dark Souls II, and Final Fantasy XIV Online, and was definitely a factor that led to those games slipping in the ranks.”
WildStar did target the WoW audience so it made sense it took some hours away from them.

Of course there’s no point in comparing GW2 to WildStar now. WS tried to capture a small target base, hardcore WoW players, and after the hype died down, players dropped out as you expect after hype dies down. With only 500k players, it’s expected to drop off the chart when players drop out.

Ye, but vast majority of players are on PC. You see, we can play this game all day long

Of course WoW doesnt have 1 million players, its dumb to compare WS launch month to WoW same as its dumb to compare WS launch month to GW2. And you did, for whatever purpose you had at the time.

Why is there no point to compare, its comapring 2 MMOs, 1 launched 2 years ago and one 3 months ago (which, as far as comaprsions go, YOU compared, so its only fair you comapre those NOW also, to get clearer picture) But as you say, it doesnt really suit you so theres no point comapring….to YOU ;D

Not sure what you’re trying to get at with WildStar now compared to GW2, that’s why I said no point. WildStar died down in popularity after the hype. And?

Yep and Guild Wars 2 is still in the top 20 in 2 years. That means people are still playing it. Quite a few people. Maybe you don’t like Raptr. But people on Xfire are playing it. People who use Overwolf are playing it. Hell my guild is playing.

I’m not sure why anyone would think the game isn’t doing well. That doesn’t mean it’s doing great, or awesome. It means it’s doing “fine”. Okay. Still being played, still making money.

I don’t need my game to be the top game to enjoy it. As long as it’s sustainable. Thus far it has been.

papryk.6273:

what the hell is raptr?
If ppl want to look at numbers and what game is popular I think that twitch would be a better choice.

Twitch doesn’t measure people playing, it measures people watching. By far, PvP is more popular on Twitch than PvE. Which means that a game more popular on Twitch might have more PvPers or better PvP to watch.

Raptr, Xfire and Overwolf measure people actually playing while running those programs in the background. Raptr and Xfire measure hours played, Overwolf measures unique log ins. Guild Wars 2 is on the top 20 in all of them.

People play <> people watching.

You can draw inferences from anything, but Raptr, Overwolf and Xfire aren’t drawing inferences. They’re measuring people actually playing games.

BlueZone.4236:

Just so people aren’t misled. GW2 being ‘neck and neck’ FF14 is misleading.
It’s ‘neck and neck’ with the PC version of FF14, however FF14 is on PS3/PS4, which obviously do not register on Xfire/Raptr.
Then there’s Wildstar, where people estimated it only sold under 500k at launch, based on NCSoft’s 2Q 2014 financials.
And here’s the Raptr ranking for Wildstar’s launch compared to GW2 (rank 6 vs rank 18, with a relative difference of ~3 times for hours played).
http://caas.raptr.com/most-played-pc-games-june-2014-wildstar-on-the-rise-steam-summer-sale-aftermath/

Raptr tracks hours played. It should come as no shock to anyone that a new game, in it’s launch month, would take a huge share of the hours played. In July Wildstar had dropped not only in places, but in also massively in hours played. It’s nice to look at this list, but reading the article accompanying it needs to help too. This is a quote from that article that accompanied the July Raptr game report.

“The new MMO WildStar lost seven spots in its second month of release — but more worryingly, gameplay was down 45.63%. We’ll see if its latest PvP game mode, Sabotage, launched on July 31, can help spur a rebound, though initial signs point towards probably not.”

You see I follow these articles from month to month and have done for a long time. On the other hand, quoting the launch month of a game and just looking at the list tells you almost nothing. Raptr, as I’ve said more than once, gives you trends. One month does not a trend make.

Yes, I’m sure when you factor in console more people are playing Final Fantasy than Guild Wars 2. I’m not sure what that proves, because people who use consoles instead of computers don’t have Guild Wars 2 as an option and in fact, have precious few MMOs they can play as options.

I compare PC games to PC games. I dont’ compare PC games to PC and console games directly. On the PC, Guild Wars 2 and Final Fantasy are very close. No one can say what the result would be if Guild Wars 2 was available on consoles. I suggest this is a red herring.

In any event, even if Guild Wars 2 is the third most successful MMO currently, and it’s in the top 20 in all three programs that track usage, it doesn’t at all change the fact that the game is relatively popular.

I’m sure Anet would accept third most popular MMO.

KarlaGrey.5903:

See, vayne’s rhetorics typically have a very clear underlying tone to them – saying the OP is not wrong/that it has merit, then countering it instantly with how there were no issues leveling a particular class. Well, I’d say the 80%+ of people who voted in your poll would probably disagree with you.

There is no doubt this is an issue, and while some have already identified it to be the likely cause of their frustration, I am certain many others have not (at least not in this very thread), and probably won’t either.

I didn’t counter it. I’m just happy they made my ranger stronger. Sorry if that bothers you. I never said, or even implied this wasn’t a potential problem.

It needs testing. Saying something isn’t testing it. So I’m testing it. It’s funny how you’re so fixated on me and what I say and how I say it that you’ll derail your own threads just to try to make a statement about me.

Try to stay on topic, please.

Unless you think this should be accepted without testing it.

KarlaGrey.5903:

Not quite! You’d be a whiteknight if you’d conjure some bogus arguments on how the original OP is wrong and how stat bursting and slumping is either fiction, or not an issue for ‘the majority’, and how the consequences for the vets are negligable and – what’s far more concerning to those who aren’t completely new to the game – clearly not considered a priority. And I read that kind of posting on a daily basis.
You’re free to like it, but it’s a different thing alltogether when you attempt to deploy quazi arguments in an attempt to discredit those who do not share such undying love for the game.

Guess I’m not a white knight since I didn’t disagree with the original premise then. That’s good to know.

I’m currently leveling other professions to see if there are levels they feel weak at to me, and what relation those levels are to stat gains.

GuzziHero.2467:

I’m levelling an engineer now, and funnily enough the only times I have struggled, it was at level 11 and level 43. I wonder if this is the reason?

Don’t know. Do you get stats at level 12 and 44? That’s the question.

I think this is a gross simplification of the situation. There are more than two types of players, but I can understand simplifying that bit to make the point understandable.

I’m an altoholic and most of the people in my guild like to level new characters. And most of the people in my guild, over all, like the new NPE.

So my guild had one guy leave and he’s back since the changes that have been made. No one else is frustrated or whining or even annoyed. And most of us like getting stuff as we level.

The personal story changes are probably of more concern to my guild than the leveling changes to be honest. And Anet is working on those.

SkylightMoon.2098:

@ vayne

They(especially WvW) used to be much bigger but have gradually gotten smaller over time. Thats why they make up a smaller populus now. Archeage is actually killing WvW right now, I can say that because I play WvW actively and actually see a lot of people leaving. I don’t know if the players will come back but its the first time ive seen an exodus this large.

Eotm is a pretty enormous fail and exactly what its used for in game is quite ambiguous nowadays. Its main purpose is a map for people to stay in while queued for WvW but the map is so kittenous now that no serious WvW player would go there to play in the meantime while they wait. Its a very poor representation of WvW.

It became more of a place to karma train. Basically run around in circles for 8 hours capping keeps and avoiding the enemies. People did it to level, not because it was fun. not only is that incredibly boring, but its completely counter to what WvW is about. They could easily fix this by nerfing the exp and rewards you get in EOTM, yet that could give the zone almost no purpose whatsoever. Who knows.

Theres nothing wrong with putting an emphasis on PVE in the game, but Anets way about developing PVE content hasn’t always been good. Temporary content was a fail. They spent a year on that, the majority didn’t like it. Permanent content this year was better but has come at an incredibly slow pace(look at the first half of season 2 and how long of a break we have). Collections are fine. Its Anets way of getting people to go back and play the game theyve already explored 10 times within the last 2 years.

I strongly suspect that not being able to cast while moving will hamper a lot of people’s enjoyment of Archeage. The limits of the game for free players means most PvPers will end up having to subscribe.

It will definitely appeal to a certain type of player. But I suspect that a lot of people will fine it disappointed in the months ahead. I personally think it will end up pay to win and any serious PvPer will leave at that point.

Heya Swish. I really appreciate you taking the time to write this and especially your tone. This is a great critique of the game.

I’m interested to know more about the cracks and what can be done to mend them, than anything else.

Good post.

SkylightMoon.2098:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

I completely understand and agree. I didn’t really think of It like that.
Probably why its hard for me to call it an mmo. I typically think of mmorpg being the only type of mmo.
Wot is definitely not an mmorpg.

As gaming moves forward, I think we’re not only going to see a lot of new types of MMOs, but we’re going to a lot of MMOs that cross genre boundaries. Star Citizen is set up to be a space flight simulator and an MMO with some RPG stuff in it as well. I’m terribly worried it’ll be pay to win, though.

On topic: I’m really having trouble seeing how anyone can think this game is dying. Not as successful as it might be…maybe. Not as successful as WoW, definitely. Not mainstream? Sure. I would consider this a niche game (for a fairly large niche) Not successful?

I don’t understand how people can come to that conclusion.

I know certain areas of this game are dying and have been progressively(wvw/spvp). The recent announcements about no plans for future dungeons alienated more of the community specifically the dungeon runners. Its honestly surprising this game is doing as well as it is, especially as of lately.

I don’t think it will ever have a huge drop in population, but that it will be gradual. At least if guild wars 2 keeps heading in the direction is now. After 2 years you can’t keep saying “no they have something big planned just watch”. You have to be realistic, any player since launch would be. There absolutely no reason to believe anything expansion sized going on in the background.

I’m operating under different assumptions than you though. First of all. WvW and SPvP together represent a small percentage of the playerbase than most people think (though WvW is clearly the more popular of the two). SPvP has basically stabilized and I don’t think it’s going to grow much. WvW is something that ESO was supposed to wreck and didn’t. There aren’t, at this time, many games that offer that kind of experience and enough people like that experience to keep going.

PvE on the other hand, open world PvE, collection, achievement hunting is likely to grow and I think there are so so many people out there who would be happy with this. You can joke about them and call them Facebook gamers, but entire generations of gamers grew up now on Facebook and they’re looking for that traditional game. It really is a virtually untapped market. And you know, you get them in, you teach them and some of them graduate and move on to other things, including WvW.

WvW may become more casual over time and not the hardcore experience it is. And that would be okay too. It would just be another part of the PvE game. Edge of the Mists proved that’s possible.

Fernling.1729:

Vayne.8563:

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

I completely understand and agree. I didn’t really think of It like that.
Probably why its hard for me to call it an mmo. I typically think of mmorpg being the only type of mmo.
Wot is definitely not an mmorpg.

As gaming moves forward, I think we’re not only going to see a lot of new types of MMOs, but we’re going to a lot of MMOs that cross genre boundaries. Star Citizen is set up to be a space flight simulator and an MMO with some RPG stuff in it as well. I’m terribly worried it’ll be pay to win, though.

On topic: I’m really having trouble seeing how anyone can think this game is dying. Not as successful as it might be…maybe. Not as successful as WoW, definitely. Not mainstream? Sure. I would consider this a niche game (for a fairly large niche) Not successful?

I don’t understand how people can come to that conclusion.

Randall.7306:

Vayne.8563:

This is more akin to a health spa selling a membership, and you suddenly change the equipment in the spa.

The thing is, if you used your membership for a period of time and got something out of it, the law probably couldn’t do anything for you, even though I understand why you feel the way you do.

But it depends a lot of the changes, both their nature and the perceived impact.

If the spa is changing the receptionist, the way the lockers are handled and the brand of oil used in the massages, it’s unlikely that the Court would decide the changes are enough to make them refund you, or to force the previous receptionist to return.

I’m not arguing that anyone is or isn’t entitled to a refund. I’m not arguing that Anet is right or wrong. It’s simply not bait and switch. I know this because it was once my job to know it. Many of our competitors used bait and switch tactics. That’s all I’m saying. Minor clarification is all it is.

In order for it to be bait and switch, you have to switch someone from one product to a different product. Changing the features of an existing product isn’t bait and switch.

Fernling.1729:

Very minor nitpick, but it would be 3rd on xfire. World of tanks as far as I know has always been considered an mmo. Not sure I would label it as one, but everyone else seems to. Its even won well known awards as being best mmo etc.

Your point still stands. As far as mmos go, its popular and far from dead.

MMORPGs are quite different from just MMOs. I use the abbreviation because it’s tiring to type MMORPG> World of Tanks is an MMO but it’s a completely different genre of game than WoW or Guild Wars 2, and really can’t be listed in the same list.

I know it’ll happen again, but I know I’ll forget the RPG when talking about MMOs. This is part of the problem with playing these games for a long time. It’s easy forget there are new types of MMOs out there.

Edit: I just went to World of Tanks website and they refer to it as an an MMO Action Game.

Jyoung.4815:

Okay so this is my problem with what you’re saying. Out of a large number of changes to the game made in the last patch, a relatively small percentage was for new players. Collections weren’t. Minipet changes weren’t. Commander tags weren’t. The tournents weren’t. The new PvP armor wasn’t. The crafting changes, while they included stuff for new players as well, the new crafting UI is amazing for crafting high level stuff. The auction house isn’t just for new players. Those changes are good. And even the changes to the story aren’t just for new players, since I prefer it this way.

Really look at the last patch and see how much was for new players and how much benefited not only old players but altoholics. Because some of us like the rewards we get every level after the first 20 levels are gone.

I think that the idea that Anet is only focused on new players is a misnomer. For one thing, all the living story content is now level 80, including the new zone we got in July.

The way people are talking it’s almost like Anet can never improve any area of the game except the one area they happen to be interested in. And I don’t find that reasonable.

I don’t know if you are reading my post or just commenting because I did say that I am well aware that there are probably many players who do like the changes and new players won’t know the difference anyway. The point I was trying to make is the things that are being (“said about the new patch in this forum”) seem to be focusing around new player retention as one post by staff even seemed to shut down the conversation about what was new for veteran players towards end game. That being said minipets, pvp armor, tournaments, etc. I’m sure they are great. I didn’t play long enough to experience that. I was turned off before lvl 15. I don’t like how I have to get to certain levels to unlock things. I don’t like that my story line comes in big chunks, I don’t like that certain icons don’t even show up on the map until a certain lvl. Those things bothered me. Its like I was forced to have training wheels. I’m sure there are things included in the patch that I might like, but I don’t play very competitively and like to go at a steady pace on my own. The story played a big part to me and breaking it into lvl increments of 10 is a turn off. I can’t gain a lvl or so and then go back to my story. I was just grinding hearts and world events and to me that’s boring.

Like I said, That’s my opinion. I don’t like those things. You obviously have a different opinion! I’m sure you have a different play style than I do as well

I would like to reiterate. I am not saying the new implements are only for new players. I’m saying the conversation by staff in this forum made me feel like they were more worried about retaining new players.[/quote]

Okay, put yourself in Anet’s place for a second. All MMOs have attrition. Every one of them. Without retaining new players, all MMOs will eventually falter and fail. Everyone one of them. New players are not just important, they’re vital.

Old players they’re important too. But you figure, as a company, modifying the first 20-30 levels of play shouldn’t be that bad for the older guys. Hell we’ll really speed up 1-15 and we’ll add rewards throughout the entire thing.

Anet is saying that it’s absolutely not good enough the retention they had, and this is what they tested that improved retention. So here’s my question for you?

How does Anet best serve you, the veteran. By listening to you, and risking the retention rate, or by doing what they’re doing to keep the game alive and healthy.

Because that really is the choice.

@Scipio

Though it’s not conclusive the number of hours played in Guild Wars 2 and the number of unique logs in seems to have stabilized. It’s relatively stable on Raptr. It’s been at 17 for a long long time, until this month when it went up to 12, and that’s because of the sale. More hours played because more new people playing. But before the sale, it was number 17 all the way back when Season 1 was still going on and it remained there during the lull between the seasons and even to this day. Number 17 out of 20 and the third most popular MMO on Raptr.

Overwolf numbers seem to support that the game is going strong with unique log ins, but I tend to discount this as unique log ins mean a lot less than hours played, if people are just logging in to unlock the story. Still, it’s number 7 on Overwolf. But then comes Xfire where it’s #11, the second most popular MMO next to WoW.

And then we have the evidence of the quarterly report. In a quarter that saw the launch of both ESO and Wildstar, sales were about 10 percent down. This is a two year old game. It’s never going to have the numbers it had at launch. It’s not reasonable to expect it. But it still has more hours played than all MMOs on two different sites…only being beaten by WoW and on one of the sites, Final Fantasy..and it’s neck and neck with Final Fantasy.

If this game is dying, then all MMOs are dying except perhaps WoW. And if that were the case, I don’t think people would be investing millions to make more MMOs. More likely every MMO needs to find its niche and it sheds people who aren’t part of that niche. Guild Wars 2 is finding its niche and it’s likely not you or the kind of people you play with.

My guild has grown and it was here at launch. It has roughly the same number of people for the last year. People are in and out all the time. Some leave, some get replaced…and we don’t actively recruit either.

So yeah, I think the game is fine. It’s not mainstream…but of all MMOs it seems like only WoW is. Doesn’t mean it’s dying. I mean hell making many millions of dollars a quarter doesn’t show death to me.

Gnat.9405:

Vayne.8563:

Gnat.9405:

We killed Zhaitan over two years ago and we haven’t even begun to see Orr change or any pattern change with the Risen. So likely not.

Yeah but that’s a technical issue. Orr isn’t living word, it’s personal story and new players need to see it like it is to experience the fight to get to Zhaitain. Orr is locked in time due to design decisions.

The idea of creating an alter version of the map that’s healing splits the player base, which Anet doesn’t want to do.

That’s the argument, and I don’t deny that it’s a good point, but it’s hard for me to believe that they didn’t consider the issue of time-lock while making the personal story (and in all honesty, who am I to say they won’t address it, or didn’t discuss it?). I just don’t want to see a game with a lot of unfinished business, so to speak, two or three years down the road. Orr, Kessex, LA, and now Mordremoths damage – and we are only one and a half dragons in. Primordus is going to cause all kinds of chaos when we encounter him, most likely.

For all we know, this is their plan – to obliterate their landscape so that in a few years from now we can look back and say, “wow, look at all this destruction that the dragons caused!” And admittedly that would be cool. But as time goes on, and as new players come in, and as people get restless, threads like this are going to continue to emerge as people want answers as to why the game world is not progressing. I think they have a plan, and I hope it works, but I can see why people are starting to question ANet’s priorities. And even as I say that I bite my tongue because I know that there are multiple teams doing a lot of different things and so on.

So, TL;DR:

We’ll see.

This is how it’s done in most games, though. Guild Wars 2 is the exception, not the rule.

There’s a town in Rift that’s being attacked by elementals. But it’s not a dynamic event. No matter when you go there or what you do, the town is always being attacked by elementals even though you get through that town and move on. Go back the next day, it’s locked in time. Go back the day after, same thing. Jump ahead from the beginning. The same.

There’s a quest hub nearby and you need the quests in that town to level, so that city must remain burning. So people can level.

Guild Wars 2 is different in that there are no quest hubs, per se and you can level anywhere. But the idea that everything needs to change has a problem.

Changing an entire zone takes time. We have to actually decide if we want the focus to be on rehashing old zones, or making new ones.

As cool as it would be to see Orr born again, I have to say I’d rather just see new zones.

On topic: I think the ideas espoused in this thread have merit. I’ve had almost no trouble leveling on my ranger at all, but they’re arguably one of the most powerful professions in the game in the open world now. They really are in a very good place.

I’m not so sure how it would go on an engie or a mesmer. I suppose I should try to level one and test the new experience with it.

DeceiverX.8361:

I’m not disagreeing with giving them help to learn. Good UI design and menu assistance early on is fantastic and the folks at ArenaNet have done a great job at implementing those.

I just believe the level gating was/is overdone and possibly costing them business and that the change initially was senseless in many regards. The amendments are a step in the right direction, but far from what’s necessary to truly provide a better new player experience for both veterans and newbies alike.

I see it as a package thing. It wasn’t just done for tutorial purposes, it was also done for pacing. That’s what Colin said, and I believe it.

It changed the pacing of the game. From your point of a view a veteran player it was fine before, but I saw problems with the pacing. Particularly in middle levels.

Anyway, the recent changes changed some stuff and maybe a few more changes will happen, but I don’t expect the system to be greatly altered from this point forward.

Anet’s compromised on some of the worst offenders, and the guy who left in my guild came back, and he can live with it. No one else in my guild was particularly perturbed in the first place.

Could it be better? Sure. Everything can always be better in a game. But I with the current changes it’s a compromise I feel most can live with. If it really does retain players (and I think it will) it’s well done from a business standpoint.

Jyoung.4815:

Vayne.8563:

Jyoung.4815:

I have been seeing a lot of talk about keeping new players interested but nothing about what’s to keep veterans interested. I’m a pretty casual player and loved the freedom that gw2 offered and how I could do pretty much what I wanted. I haven’t been able to play for a while due to real world events, but got back on yesterday and made a new character. I did not know what was going on. My main story quest was nowhere to be found, Several features were locked, a lot of other things besides the main story quest weren’t on the map, I was extremely confused. I did a little research and learned that my game was not broken but the game itself has turned to crap. It seems to me that the staff only cares about getting new people to play the game considering this being beneficial for new players is all you guys have been talking about. It doesn’t make someone that has already purchased the game and played for quite sometime feel very appreciated. I paid to play this game too and this is no longer the game that I spent my money on!

So what about the veteran players that have been complaining since day one the the living story was too disjointed and we had to keep stopping to continue, or wait ten levels and have five stories of completely useless rewards.

There isn’t just one player base, there are many people with many different opinions. I’ve always thought the story was too fragmented, and wasn’t cohesive because of the original presentation.

I didn’t say all veteran players loved the previous system. I was just saying when the staff only talks about trying to get new players and retaining new players it kinda gives me the “we got your money already who cares” kinda vibe(I’m pretty sure they may have mentioned veteran players in “a” post but I’m not going back to reread the entire thread, because I think you get the point I’m trying to make). I do realize there are many different types of players veteran and new. I’m sure there are several people who love the new implements that were made. I was stating my opinion of the direction they went and I personally don’t like it. I also realize that I am more than welcome to not play the game if I don’t like it. I have taken that route.

PS. I’m not posting this with malice. I respect your opinion :p

Okay so this is my problem with what you’re saying. Out of a large number of changes to the game made in the last patch, a relatively small percentage was for new players. Collections weren’t. Minipet changes weren’t. Commander tags weren’t. The tournents weren’t. The new PvP armor wasn’t. The crafting changes, while they included stuff for new players as well, the new crafting UI is amazing for crafting high level stuff. The auction house isn’t just for new players. Those changes are good. And even the changes to the story aren’t just for new players, since I prefer it this way.

Really look at the last patch and see how much was for new players and how much benefited not only old players but altoholics. Because some of us like the rewards we get every level after the first 20 levels are gone.

I think that the idea that Anet is only focused on new players is a misnomer. For one thing, all the living story content is now level 80, including the new zone we got in July.

The way people are talking it’s almost like Anet can never improve any area of the game except the one area they happen to be interested in. And I don’t find that reasonable.

DeceiverX.8361:

And as you state my own research as my “opinion” your disagreements stem entirely off of your personal opinion.

snip

And it has nothing to do with your specific demographic. As you just said, games with targeted audiences have had very little success. The key is widespread appeal. It allows for better marketing, and ultimately, creates a diverse community where anyone can sign up and enjoy it. This is why the content-gating is bad design and inhibits player retention: it only seems to cater to players who are not at all familiar with the entire genre. This is especially apparent when there isn’t a lot of fluid filler like there is now. Like I said, through better content implementation, the gating can be negated to an extent so that players can play at their own pace, in the way they want, at all levels of experience/familiarity, but nobody’s experience is hurt in the meantime. An easy dungeon with a predefined minimum completion time integrated into starter zones for low level players could allow them to get familiar with forming parties, combo fields, communication, and simply play the game in a group environment without having to worry about wiping, and other players can help them learn the game through tips and guidance, and new players can thus also be integrated into guilds and groups better. The minimum timer also prevents speedrun toxicity from getting involved in the new player experience as well.

This game was so successful at launch and got so much hype because of the mass appeal it generated: Hardcore tight sPvP tied with eSports, massive 24/7 large-scale battles for the GvG-oriented, extensive PvE content and dungeons for the raiders, incredible character customization through dyes and weapon/armor skins for those who care about style and roleplayers. The list goes on. All of this available early. It generated this appeal because of the lack of level gates on all of this content – the game was created on the basis of playing how you want to. Fundamentals to combat and the process of meaningful character progression shouldn’t be blocked off. More solutions for integrating them into the flow of content for new players smoothly is what needs to be done instead.

I disagree. But we’ll have to call it there, because nothing I say will convince you that even smart people need help in new environments, if they’re out of their comfort zone and that’s all this new intro really does.

I can’t imagine that 1 hour of a character’s life is so significant to veteran MMOers that it’ll make or break the game for them.

To me it’s a vast over-reaction that will die down. The game will get new players. Some people may leave. I think the new players will outnumber the leveling players and time will march on.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

The evidence is in their game, but thanks for derailing this topic because it’s not heading your way.

The evidence of what makes a game good is not opinion? Okay have it your way. You’re right. WoW is objective amazing and that is the sole reason for it’s success. You do realize that making topics calling people out for derailing a thread is further derailing a thread.

On topic: The concurrency figures for Guild Wars 2 are far lower than they were when the game launched, but if I had to guess, and this is just a guess, I’d say that 50,000 concurrency with the exception of patch days is probably not a bad guestimate.

They need a title like Jumping Master classic, that gives you a title if you get all the original puzzles. Then it’s an even playing field for everyone.

BlueZone.4236:

WoW was successful because it was an amazing product at the time. Blizzard understood polish and maximize their games’ potentials. That’s why their 3 franchises (Warcraft, Diablo, Starcraft) are (were?) amazing. Of course, Blizzard today is not the same as Blizzard back in the old days.
ANet never figured out how to truly tap into GW2’s potential. That’s why it’s following the normal trend.

There’s simply no evidence available that if WoW didn’t have major competition and major funding for advertising that it would have done much worse.

We only know what happened. Attributing their success to any one thing and not an entire combination of factors is just theory.

Torsailr.8456:

Blockhead Magee.3092:

The exhaustion idea has merit, however, a limit of three seems a bit small considering you may want to quickly build a number of defensive siege when you see a blob storming your keep. I’d wager the griefers won’t be dissuaded no matter what cap is put in place. They’d just wait it out.

One small tweak, perhaps, would be to not allow flame rams to be created inside a tower, camp or inner keep (SM & Garrison). At least force the griefers to use something that has a modicum of value.

I think a system that allows siege to be destroyed by the player base would be a better way to go. Some sort of approval where some number of players concur that a piece of siege should be destroyed in any given area. It would be a lot harder to get a group of griefers together to remove siege than it is for them to create it.

Allow a squad to salvage siege for a percentage of supplies used to build it? Share those supplies among the squad members that aren’t full?

Then trolls could salvage your legit siege equipment.

I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again. World completion should have been divided.

You should have had Tyria completion as one achievement, mists completion as another achievement and if you get the both, you get an achievement called Master Mapper or Grand Master Cartographer (as in guild wars 1) or something else. I’d still make the gifts of the explorer available only to those who get the comboed title though. But I’d give different rewards for people who got the other two.

DeceiverX.8361:

snip

It’s not that the efforts aren’t appreciated. I just do not suspect that these changes are going to have any major impacts on player retention and the new player experience; if anything, it might make alt-loving veterans less-inclined to play new characters, which usually comes from the player being bored, which may also drive veterans away.

I’m seriously concerned that you, as an industry professional, would think that a CEO of a company would ever say their company was bleeding subs if it wasn’t absolutely obvious and serious. That they follow that up with sales are still strong, well yeah, of course that’s what they’re going to say. What would you say. The real story here is that those leaving the game are so great in number that a CEO had to come out and say that pubicly. That shows something very different than what the rest of what they’re saying is saying. If it weren’t true, there would be no reason at all to say that ever.

Your suspicions about player retention are an opinion, perhaps an educated one. I have another opinion.

The MMO space is very very crowded and most of the new MMOs seem to be targeting raiders, hard core PvPers specific groups…and they still dont’ seem to be doing very well. Anet knows it’s a crowded market, but it doesn’t seem most big MMOs are trying to get new players into MMOs.

I’m sure there are tons of people who hear about MMOs, would like to try them, but feel they’re too complicated. Anet isn’t a stupid company. They’re not likely to steal hard core dungeon runners from Wildstar or even people who want open world PvP from other games that specialize in it. They’re not going to hold onto sandbox gamers either, if a good sandbox ever comes out that’s set in a fantasy setting.

Guild Wars 2 is a theme park MMO and they’re appealing to people who want/like a thempark MMO. That means Guild Wars 2 is perfectly positioned to bring new people into the fold and there’s no better way, in my opinion, to do it than the way they’re trying to do it, though as said in my places, it definitely needs tweaking.

For all your experience in other games, you forgot the golden rule of expertise. The more of an expert you are in one thing, the more you think that gives you insight into other related things. Most people do that.

But Guild Wars 2 really isn’t like other MMOs, testified to by the fact that I can actually play it for two years. No other MMO has made that kind of mark on me. Therefore for my demographic, they’re doing it right.

The question then becomes how many people in my demographic are there.

Distaste.4801:

Vayne.8563:

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Paul.4081:

Paradox.1380:

Paul.4081:

snip

.

Xfire’s numbers have dropped from tens of thousands to 400, unless the Xfire community are special snowflakes….

And (personal opinion) about guru, you can have a discussion over there without a mod deeming your post locky McDeletable!

I’ve rambled here and I’ve rambled there, I’ve only ever felt punished for it here.

Guild Wars 2 is the #11 game on Xfire. Go to games and search on Guild Wars 2. It says Guild Wars 2 is ranked 11 in the Xfire rank box.

That means on Xfire, Guild Wars 2 is the second most popular MMO. Only WoW is more popular.

Now Xfire, Raptr and Overwolf all seem to be saying much the same thing.

No. 11, they have reached the summit :S

I’m sure Anet is quite happy that the only MMO more popular or played on Crossfire than Guild Wars 2 is WoW. I’d be happy.

Considering many of the other MMOs that aren’t there are newer and some have been popular in the past, I’d say that it’s not a bad summit to have reached.

Even books that are on the NY Times bestseller list that were number four or five don’t stay there for two years usually.

The state of the MMO genre is just ruin, okay that might be embellishing a bit. At the very least the MMO landscape is just sad. You have the reigning giant slowly dieing. All “new” titles are basically rehashing that dying giant with some new paint and shiny baubles, they also want to charge a monthly fee. People buy the new game, realize it’s the same old crap and don’t want to pay $15 a month for it. If a MMO company is going to do a themepark game they simply can’t have a subscription on it anymore. Both ESO and wildstar will learn this lesson quickly as I am sure they are scrambling to go F2P.

The position of GW2 on lists says more about their monetization than anything else. The cash shop isn’t invasive like most F2P games so people don’t feel forced into buying stuff from it thus it doesn’t ruin the experience. I really hope that other game studios see this and realize they don’t need to lock everything behind nickle and dime cash shop sales.

Then of course you have alternatives. What other newer F2P games are really out there? Archeage is poised to do really well if their cash shop isn’t invasive and gameplay off-putting, I haven’t played it to know. SWTOR has definitely seen a popularity increase. That’s about it really.

It’s no wonder why GW2 is ranked where it is, however it also shows how GW2 was mismanaged. In the current MMO landscape they could have taken the ball and ran with it. They had no major competitors and plenty of time, they could have built on this game and made it very hard to compete with. Instead they just sat there dribbling it waiting for some new MMO to take it from them. I can honestly say the only thing that ArenaNet has done really well at is monetization, everything else like class balance, endgame, PvP, WvW, Dungeons, etc is all par or sub-par.

This is your opinion. I’m not sure that it’s completely true.

Could Guild Wars 2 have been “better” or “managed better”. Absolutely. But I’ve never seen a company that you couldn’t say that about. But changing design decisions is a tricky business and trying to figure out what would make more profit and make you more successful is another tricky business.

There are people who swear adding open world PvP to this game would make the game more popular. I don’t believe that at all. There’s just no way to know if the game was different, say the way you envision it, that the game wouldn’t be less successful. It’s such an easy thing to say but it’s an impossible thing to prove.

I’ve found very often, things in the real world are counter-intuitive. Things that would seem to be right are often in fact wrong…but you never really know why.

MMOs are making companies millions of dollars a quarter and people keep making new ones. I’m not sure I’d say that genre was in the shambles you think it is.

But more importantly what WoW did, they did because of when and where they were, not because it’s some amazing product. They had relatively little competition when they came out so they got a huge percentage of the market, and then they had a boatload of money to advertise which they did. Once they were that far in front, it was going to be very hard for anyone to dislodge them. Because new games have to deal with far more competition.

I wonder if you added everyone together who plays MMOs right now if the genre isn’t more popular than ever.

The problem is they keep adding jumping puzzles. You’d never really be complete.

Rococo.8347:

’The character slots are not broken. ’

I never said they were – I DID say that I thought it was a pretty shanky case of classic bait and switch – I bet their precious ‘metics’ would tell then how much character slot buying increased after the adverts and blogs talking about now is the time to level again!, brand new improved levelling! – who buys character slots? mainly vets, certainly not some shiny new player (with 5 empty slots) – the sort that would be the ONLY recipient of the levelling changes ( and even then its questionable)

Don’t advertise to vets as you’re potential market to buy more slots for ‘brand new fun leveling’ IF in actual fact you’re levelling changes are geared to newbies.

Not so much as a friggin penny will drop from my wallet for this game from now on if that’s the attitude – if the patch wasn’t so bloody awful for vets then Dev’s wouldn’t be scrabbling to reverse some changes – which pretty much backs up my bait and switch argument.

Actually it’s not bait and switch which is a different legal issue, it would be closer to false advertising (which it’s not either).

Bait and switch is when you advertise one product and then, when the customer comes into the store, you try to sell them a different product, usually because the item advertised is one you’re losing money on.

This is more akin to a health spa selling a membership, and you suddenly change the equipment in the spa.

The thing is, if you used your membership for a period of time and got something out of it, the law probably couldn’t do anything for you, even though I understand why you feel the way you do.

Remove visible stats and numbers from the game entirely. All you’d know about your character was that you were rather strong, pretty tough, fragile, or whatever. Remove the entire concept of mini-maxing.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Yep, very interesting that GW2 back 2 years ago had 89,310 hours logged at ranked 2 and now it’s ranked 11 at 1,473 hours. What a massive drop.
Knowing the first year ANet touted the 460k peak concurrency, and knowing that there was a big drop (normal) in players after the hype, I think it’s understandable where the ballpark of concurrency lies.

What’s so massive about a game having higher concurrency on launch than two years later. That’s business as usual dude.

Exactly right. So we know the number be well below the 460k peak, because it’s just business as usual. It’s been 2 years already, so the 50-60k peak sounds a bit reasonable.

I’m not sure why anyone would think peak concurrency around launch time isn’t the highest concurrency a game ever has. I’ve never made specific comment on how many people I think are playing. I’ve never refuted anyone else’s numbers until they were stupidly low…like when people say 2.

I’m only saying that the game is healthy and doing well. Certainly compared to other MMORPGs at this time. There’s no one source I can find in tracking games that doesn’t put it at the second or third most popular MMO. It’s more played than all free to play MMOs as far as I can tell from the data I’ve seen.

The game is doing fine. That’s all. Beyond that, I don’t much care what people say.

It’s the people who try to say that it’s doing bad, simply because they personally don’t like it that I take issue with. I have no opinion on concurrency numbers specifically.

Whew, thankfully no one said that it’s bad then.

Well, except there are people in this thread who claim the game isn’t doing well. Chuo for example, came into the thread and said (even though the game up up five) that Guild Wars 2 slipped into 12, I wonder why?

I think the implication of that is rather clear. And there’s plenty said by implication in other posts.

Gnat.9405:

We killed Zhaitan over two years ago and we haven’t even begun to see Orr change or any pattern change with the Risen. So likely not.

Yeah but that’s a technical issue. Orr isn’t living word, it’s personal story and new players need to see it like it is to experience the fight to get to Zhaitain. Orr is locked in time due to design decisions.

The idea of creating an alter version of the map that’s healing splits the player base, which Anet doesn’t want to do.

BlueZone.4236:

Vayne.8563:

BlueZone.4236:

Yep, very interesting that GW2 back 2 years ago had 89,310 hours logged at ranked 2 and now it’s ranked 11 at 1,473 hours. What a massive drop.
Knowing the first year ANet touted the 460k peak concurrency, and knowing that there was a big drop (normal) in players after the hype, I think it’s understandable where the ballpark of concurrency lies.

What’s so massive about a game having higher concurrency on launch than two years later. That’s business as usual dude.

Exactly right. So we know the number be well below the 460k peak, because it’s just business as usual. It’s been 2 years already, so the 50-60k peak sounds a bit reasonable.

I’m not sure why anyone would think peak concurrency around launch time isn’t the highest concurrency a game ever has. I’ve never made specific comment on how many people I think are playing. I’ve never refuted anyone else’s numbers until they were stupidly low…like when people say 2.

I’m only saying that the game is healthy and doing well. Certainly compared to other MMORPGs at this time. There’s no one source I can find in tracking games that doesn’t put it at the second or third most popular MMO. It’s more played than all free to play MMOs as far as I can tell from the data I’ve seen.

The game is doing fine. That’s all. Beyond that, I don’t much care what people say.

It’s the people who try to say that it’s doing bad, simply because they personally don’t like it that I take issue with. I have no opinion on concurrency numbers specifically.

BlueZone.4236:

Yep, very interesting that GW2 back 2 years ago had 89,310 hours logged at ranked 2 and now it’s ranked 11 at 1,473 hours. What a massive drop.
Knowing the first year ANet touted the 460k peak concurrency, and knowing that there was a big drop (normal) in players after the hype, I think it’s understandable where the ballpark of concurrency lies.

What’s so massive about a game having higher concurrency on launch than two years later. That’s business as usual dude.

More telling is that it’s still the second most popular MMO and other MMOs have launched around the same time and in that time period

Paul.4081:

MikaHR.1978:

Paul.4081:

Paradox.1380:

Paul.4081:

Well, sites usually post numbers when they’re good. Not saying that necessarily makes GW2’s bad but I keep an eye on the Xfire numbers from time to time and they have dropped by a lot as with posters on GW2 Guru. They blame circular threads (?).

One of the main reasons (I personally believe) why people stop posting on Guru is because that forum is even MORE toxic than this one and they don’t have the same level of moderation as here.

I don’t know anything about Xfire so I can’t comment on that. But also, most games like THIS do not post their numbers ever, and when they do mention it they almost always put it in ballpark generic figures.

Xfire’s numbers have dropped from tens of thousands to 400, unless the Xfire community are special snowflakes….

And (personal opinion) about guru, you can have a discussion over there without a mod deeming your post locky McDeletable!

I’ve rambled here and I’ve rambled there, I’ve only ever felt punished for it here.

Painting pretty picure without context….tsk tsk…on xfire GW2 is currently no.11 with regular dips to top 10.

Stop riding on Vayne’s coattails

But my coattails are very comfortable. I just had AC installed.

Seriously guy, you mentioned Crossfire to try to mislead people, peopled called you on it. You mentioned it to try to disprove the Raptr numbers. But Guild Wars 2 is higher on Xfire than it is on Raptr. And it’s even higher on Overwolf.

Anything past that feels a bit like you’re trying to incite people, which would, if I’m not mistaken, be against forum rules.

Paul.4081:

Vayne.8563:

Paul.4081:

Paradox.1380:

Paul.4081:

Well, sites usually post numbers when they’re good. Not saying that necessarily makes GW2’s bad but I keep an eye on the Xfire numbers from time to time and they have dropped by a lot as with posters on GW2 Guru. They blame circular threads (?).

One of the main reasons (I personally believe) why people stop posting on Guru is because that forum is even MORE toxic than this one and they don’t have the same level of moderation as here.

I don’t know anything about Xfire so I can’t comment on that. But also, most games like THIS do not post their numbers ever, and when they do mention it they almost always put it in ballpark generic figures.

Xfire’s numbers have dropped from tens of thousands to 400, unless the Xfire community are special snowflakes….

And (personal opinion) about guru, you can have a discussion over there without a mod deeming your post locky McDeletable!

I’ve rambled here and I’ve rambled there, I’ve only ever felt punished for it here.

Guild Wars 2 is the #11 game on Xfire. Go to games and search on Guild Wars 2. It says Guild Wars 2 is ranked 11 in the Xfire rank box.

That means on Xfire, Guild Wars 2 is the second most popular MMO. Only WoW is more popular.

Now Xfire, Raptr and Overwolf all seem to be saying much the same thing.

No. 11, they have reached the summit :S

I’m sure Anet is quite happy that the only MMO more popular or played on Crossfire than Guild Wars 2 is WoW. I’d be happy.

Considering many of the other MMOs that aren’t there are newer and some have been popular in the past, I’d say that it’s not a bad summit to have reached.

Even books that are on the NY Times bestseller list that were number four or five don’t stay there for two years usually.

Paul.4081:

Paradox.1380:

Paul.4081:

Well, sites usually post numbers when they’re good. Not saying that necessarily makes GW2’s bad but I keep an eye on the Xfire numbers from time to time and they have dropped by a lot as with posters on GW2 Guru. They blame circular threads (?).

One of the main reasons (I personally believe) why people stop posting on Guru is because that forum is even MORE toxic than this one and they don’t have the same level of moderation as here.

I don’t know anything about Xfire so I can’t comment on that. But also, most games like THIS do not post their numbers ever, and when they do mention it they almost always put it in ballpark generic figures.

Xfire’s numbers have dropped from tens of thousands to 400, unless the Xfire community are special snowflakes….

And (personal opinion) about guru, you can have a discussion over there without a mod deeming your post locky McDeletable!

I’ve rambled here and I’ve rambled there, I’ve only ever felt punished for it here.

Guild Wars 2 is the #11 game on Xfire. Go to games and search on Guild Wars 2. It says Guild Wars 2 is ranked 11 in the Xfire rank box.

That means on Xfire, Guild Wars 2 is the second most popular MMO. Only WoW is more popular.

Now Xfire, Raptr and Overwolf all seem to be saying much the same thing.

Charrbeque.8729:

MikaHR.1978:

Charrbeque.8729:

I don’t like the idea of weapon skills being locked and all of them automatically unlocking as you level up.

I liked it the way it was before, being able to unlock them myself. When I was a new player to this game I saw it as an incentive to unlock all weapon skills for my profession as soon as possible. While working to unlock weapon skills it made me stick with a weapon for a while causing me to familiarize myself with it. By the time I had all weapon skills unlocked for all weapons I was able to decide which type of weapon is best for my playstyle.

Now with weapon skills automatically unlocking for each weapon as you level up, there is no incentive for a new player to ever try out a different weapon. Some players may just use whatever type of weapon their character starts with and stick with it for a very long time before they decide to ever try out anything else.

Actually there was no incentive for player to trynew weapon and goes back to 11111111111111111 so he would stick with what he already had unlocked.

And that is especially true for people that already wanted to play “big sword warrior” “longbow ranger” “mace+shield gardian” “staff ekemenalist” as they would unlock that and had o desire to go back to 111111111111 with other weapons.

Any player that just wants to pick whatever weapon is popular for their profession and just spam 1 all day doesn’t belong playing GW, in my opinion.

GW has always been a complex game that requires a good build, tactics, strategy, and the skill to use it. If they make the game easy because it’s too hard for noobs it ruins it for the rest of us.

I admit I’m not nearly as skilled as other players and sometimes the game is a bit too complex, but I never give up and keep trying. I use to have a lot of trouble with easy jumping puzzles that most players could do on their first try. Now after much practice I can do a lot of those jumping puzzles, and more, with little to no difficulty at all.

If everything was too easy for me when I first started playing I would have gotten bored and moved on to something else. It’s the will to overcome a challenge that makes the game interesting, as frustrating as it can be at times.

Except that you’re only using 1 through the five minute tutorial, during which you’re getting the lay of the land and then the two skill unlocks immediately after.

I think the idea is that you know very well then what your 1 skill does making 2 infinitely more appealing to use. You start looking forward to new skills because you don’t get them that fast.

The funny bit, to me anyway, is that people have been complaining for a year or more now about people standing around at boss fights pressing 1, long before the NPE was designed most likely.

But no one can offer evidence that this won’t get people to press 1 less. In my opinion very few people will be satisfied with a single skill and the idea that a new skill is unlocked will be a reward to them. They’ll use it because it’s not one. They have time to read it, enough time, before the third skill unlocks.

Everyone plays differently. I’ve always used all my skills. But the amount of people who use 1 all the time prior to this patch is legion.

Deceiver, what’s your proof that WoW has high retention rates? The reason I ask is because recently, according to an article in time magazine, the CEO of Blizzard said WoW was bleeding subscriptions. The problem is, even people in the industry can get it wrong sometimes.

Simply put, WoW launched at a time with very very little competition. They had a boatload of money coming off the wild success of previous titles and put a huge amount of that money into advertising.

Even more simply put, during my time in WoW, Blizzard did what Anet recently did and changed all the starting zones to make them more rewarding and contiguous. So, yeah, if WoW does have a high retention rate (and I think that it is definitely an addictive game, but not necessary a good one) and Anet is doing something similar to what WoW did, and it is similar, then in fact, you should be applauding Anet, not pointing out they’re wrong for doing this.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. You’re entitled to your opinion. But working in the industry doesn’t necessarily get you any votes. Want to know why?

Because many of us are here because we don’t like WoW and games based around the WoW play style. And I don’t like mobas either. So the kinds of games those players retain are the exact type of game that lose me.

It is entirely possible that Anet set out to make a game for the rest of us, and that they are continuing to make a game for the rest of us. And that other games do, with or without retention might very well apply to those games.

WoW failed to retain me.

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Vayne.8563:

So spend the 10 silver and 2 skill points to unlock your blue trait. Problem solved. For blue traits especially it’s not that much.

I still think it’s bullkitten that you don’t have any traits to start with on new characters. You have to unlock them all from scratch, either by buying them or through some silly “challenges”.

Green and Yellow traits? Sure, make us unlock those. But BLUES? Let us get those for free. Come on, gotta let us start somewhere.

Thank god I have characters grandfathered in to the old trait unlocks… though it is painful for the couple of new characters I made recently.

You’ll get no disagreement from me. I’ve been against the new trait system all along. I don’t mind the whole challenge thing, but it has to be thought out way more carefully than it has been. And yes, blue traits should have probably been free.

sirian.4981:

If you think thats bad wait till you have to kill the Overgrown Grub in the Eternal Battleground. People will rage at you for even suggesting you kill that mob.

They really need to change that unlock, or provide another option. That’s just ridiculous.

UndeadRufus.6832:

Vayne.8563:

I’m not going to argue about a basic truth. If you’re already angry and something gets you angry again, you react more strongly. This is like normal human emotion. If you’re not already angry and something makes you angry, you’re still angry. But things have a way of building up. Reactions get stronger. If you don’t agree with it, fine, we can agree to disagree. But I don’t think this is unreasonable at all. And I don’t know many who would actually disagree with this.

Basic truth? A basic trend, maybe, but even this is only going to apply along the median of people who have actually been stewing all this time, patch after patch. I’m absolutely livid about the 9/9 “Feature Pack,” to the point of nearly uninstalling an ArenaNet product for only the second time in 7+ years. Yet since April I’ve been largely content with GW2, and reached my current state of dissatisfaction pretty much on its own merits.

You can’t reasonably sit there and acknowledge that people are mad about a bunch of specific stuff, and then pooh-pooh their concerns by saying that they’re just “angry because they’re angry.” That isn’t accurate. You know it isn’t accurate, because you just listed the reasons. Maybe they’re overreacting, or maybe you’re just dismissing criticism, or maybe some of both. Even if overreaction is in the cards here, the fact that so many dubious changes have occurred to create this suspicious, chronically-malcontent atmosphere—well, it’s symptomatic of something besides whiny players, and it should bother anyone who cares about the game.

Apparently you read my post completely wrong. I’m not diminishing anything. I’m saying people are angry because they’re angry. That’s a fact. They’re angry. I’m saying that the reaction might have been stronger, because they’re angry about so much. Nothing I said could possibly be taken to meant that people aren’t angry about this particularly patch. But this anger has, for many people been brewing for a while. That’s all I’m saying. I didn’t poo-poo anything.

You think everything I say is pro Anet, so you assume that my statement is pro Anet, but it’s not. I’m saying people are angry about this patch. In ADDITION, they’re angry about other stuff before this patch. And many people are.

The cumulative anger creates a stronger reaction. That’s what I’m saying. Not that people aren’t legitimately angry. I think you simply misinterpreted my post in the first place.

So spend the 10 silver and 2 skill points to unlock your blue trait. Problem solved. For blue traits especially it’s not that much.