Guild Wars 2

darkace.8925:

My account got hit with a game-breaking bug that’s been plaguing people for close to five months. Over the course of three weeks, every attempt to get the issue resolved was met with copy-and-pasted (word-for-word) reply. After six such messages over the course of three weeks, I decided it was time to move on. The lack of an earnest attempt to communicate, not the bug itself, was the deal-breaker. In my book, that’s not exactly what I’d consider “amazing” customer service. Quite the opposite, in fact.

I’m not sure what you expect customer service to tell you about bugs that developers aren’t fixing. It’s definitely a legit complaint you have. But customer service aren’t the people to put the blame on here.

Customer service cant’ really fix game bugs, and they can’t tell you what devs are doing about bugs, particularly if the devs can’t find those bugs.

You say you need to go to the gem store, but if you have another character, you surely have some achievement points. You do get a free makeover kit at every 5000 achievement points, as well as 400 gems.

As for not being able to buy rare items as you level, I’m quite confused as to why you think that’s necessary. For one thing, rare items pre patch didn’t even appear at all in the game till level 39. However, the game is completely completable in greens or even blues. I know very very few people who buy rares while leveling. This is something you’ve decided you want that you definited don’t need. It should also be mentioned that now, as you level, the game provides you rares for free, which it didn’t used to. As you get higher in level the game gives you rares for leveling. I’ve gotten at least three rare items since the patch just by leveling. That never happened before.

The new patch isn’t meant for veterans anyway, hence the term New Player Experience. It was introduced because so many people stop playing before they even get into the game.

Finally, the open world isn’t really meant to be challenging, but there are more challenging things to do in the game. If you don’t run dungeons or fractals and you don’t do jumping puzzles and you don’t do end game zones, then yes, hitting a couple of skills is enough.

As for auction houses being removed from starter zones, they’re right in the city, a couple of feet away from where they used to be. They’re not locked out for new characters, they’re just not in your face.

The idea is too take some icons off the map, because a new player doesn’t really have money to use the auction house anyway. An experienced player should know where their home city is when they start.

They’re communicating a lot better lately. It still needs improvement, but it’s definitely better.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Manasa Devi.7958:

I got 4 collections instantly upon logging on and I imagine I’ll get the honorary skritt one someday because it’s a funny title

Honorary Skritt is totally the best title in the game.

Are we allowed to agree on something?

I’m scanning the TOS to see if we can.

Make that 3. I love that title.

If a game is to be a test of player skill, it shouldn’t be a test of player equipment. There’s too much of that already.

I had macros in other games and it completely trivialized parts of the game. I’m glad there are no macros here.

felessan.9587:

Vayne.8563:

There isn’t really a pace of reward levels. A new person wouldn’t question it is much because they NEVER got one skill point per level. They’d see at different levels I get different stuff….cool.

One of the problems with the old system that annoyed me early on, was that I was getting 1 skill point per level, but I needed to buy 6 point skills at that point and it was like really? It was annoying to be getting something I really couldn’t use till I got a bunch more. I’d look around for skill challenges on maps, and farm a few skill points to buy the next skill, but it wasn’t fun.

This way you get stuff every level. You have a mouseover thing that tells you what you’re getting next level, and what you get at which level, if it’s not already, will be in the wiki.

But the expectation of getting specific stuff at specific levels is only going to affect current players. The rest will see it as cool rewards as they get them.

The problem is I have to go to a third-party source just to see “when can I unlock a new skill?”

With predictable rewards, like skill points every level, I can accommodate for my mistakes if I buy skills that aren’t particularly helpful plus it helps me to save up for targeted acquisition.

This is a really good point. But as someone else pointed out, skill challenges abound in the game. This just gives players a reason to seek them out.

dekou.6012:

The previous system was much clearer in that you got the same thing every level. Now you never know what you’ll get. It’s similar to the trait revamp in that the new system makes aquiring trait points a non-linear affair and that’s weird. They should’ve just kept the 1sp/lvl system and given you one trait every five levels after 15. That’s much simpler.

I really think not knowing what you’re going to get is a plus for most people, not a minus. It’s that surprise feeling.

Original system: Look a skill point I can use when I get five more. Look a trait point I can use when I get four more. Next level, oh look another trait point. I knew what I was getting, but so what? It wasn’t exciting. It has no flare.

I think most people, and again this is just my opinion, don’t really worry about builds and stuff until they’re approaching 80. Some people don’t even worry about builds then.

They’re not anticipating a new skill point. They’re getting a cool reward. Most people just don’t think that deeply about the gaming experience.

Those that do might be put out by this, but I’m pretty sure we’re in a pretty vast minority.

felessan.9587:

Thanks for this great write-up. I’ve taken a new character to 20 so far and found that it’s not really that painful.

A few small complaints:

• Guardians could use a different starting weapon. Mace is slow and very low damage.
• It would be really nice to have a weapon and salvage vendor near the starting hearts.
  *13 is a little late for skills to unlock. Maybe they could start at 10? (above comparison of previous level 6:current level 10 is very helpful, thank you! Waiting for the next set of fixes before I comment more on this)
• It would be great to be able to interact with skill challenges before level 13. You only have to backtrack on your first map, but it’s still annoying.
• Earning skill points in bundles instead of one every level is not my favorite choice.

Can someone else comment, is our first automatic skill at 13 a condition cleanse?

All starting cities have vendors that sell white low level weapons very cheaply. You can go into the city and buy whatever weapon you want. A bit of an inconvenience, but probably better than running around with a mace. lol

It’s an automatic filter. The forums replace profanity with the word kitten.

sonicwhip.9052:

Vayne.8563:

sonicwhip.9052:

This is the reason why I don’t play much anymore except for popping into WvW from time to time into a random zerg. There’s just nothing new coming into the game. I remember back then Runescape use to have a non stop flow of fun new permanent additions to the core game and they made less money than Anet.
Well Archeage releases today in a few hours and the developers have already revealed a ton of new permanent content coming later this year.

Don’t know what happened to Anet GW1 had awesome new content updates. Must have something to do with the secret Nexon take over of NCSoft.

It’ll be interesting to see how many players Archage has two years from now and what kind of complaints they have. I’ll tell you one thing. The launch, the headstart thus far is less than stellar. I have a suspicion that Archage isn’t the panacea that some think it’s going to be.

In two years it will have twice the new content that this game could produce in four years.

LMAO! We’ll see.

virus.4370:

Vayne.8563:

Are your minions despawning or dying, OP?

yeah every time i cross a sub-area..other also said if you are downed in pvp.that i can’t say..i don’t really play pvp.. not my cup of tea..lol..but i know my friends that play as necro’s have all reported the same bug.and Anet knows about it..i was just wanting some time frame on repair of said bug.. 1day..6 months..a year..never lol. that’s all, but all i got was trolling players saying “don’t use minions”..lol not you but a few others.

The problem with bug fixes is that until you know what’s causing the bug, you can’t estimate how much time it takes to fix it. And you know, knowing a bug exists doesn’t guarantee you know what causes it.

Anet probably couldn’t give you a time frame if they wanted to.

sonicwhip.9052:

This is the reason why I don’t play much anymore except for popping into WvW from time to time into a random zerg. There’s just nothing new coming into the game. I remember back then Runescape use to have a non stop flow of fun new permanent additions to the core game and they made less money than Anet.
Well Archeage releases today in a few hours and the developers have already revealed a ton of new permanent content coming later this year.

Don’t know what happened to Anet GW1 had awesome new content updates. Must have something to do with the secret Nexon take over of NCSoft.

It’ll be interesting to see how many players Archage has two years from now and what kind of complaints they have. I’ll tell you one thing. The launch, the headstart thus far is less than stellar. I have a suspicion that Archage isn’t the panacea that some think it’s going to be.

Mea.8967:

Vayne.8563:

GOSU.9574:

Does it never end?

“OMG this is too good, nerf it! Whatever you do, do NOT improve on the kitten that isn’t too good! That would be insane! Do not balance positively, only balance negatively! OMG!”

How about instead of nerfing what works, you enhance what does not? boggled

If you buff everything, things die faster and everything has to be rebalanced. Because pepole already complain the game is too easy.

I don’t think this game is easy, I think the content is two years old:P

Drop a newbie into arah and even the good ones’ll die:)

That’s probably true. The thing is, new content get’s beaten and figured out so fast now that unless it’s mega hard, it’s chewed through because we know the game so well. I’m not really sure how that can be fixed, without adding artificial difficulty, which I don’t personally like.

Are your minions despawning or dying, OP?

GOSU.9574:

Does it never end?

“OMG this is too good, nerf it! Whatever you do, do NOT improve on the kitten that isn’t too good! That would be insane! Do not balance positively, only balance negatively! OMG!”

How about instead of nerfing what works, you enhance what does not? boggled

If you buff everything, things die faster and everything has to be rebalanced. Because pepole already complain the game is too easy.

Roybe.5896:

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Roybe.5896:

Each season will introduce new content, maps, races, etc. People do not like it, they want a large pack.

Actually most people just want something rather than barely anything. I wouldn’t mind a large pack (even if it’s a boxed version I have to pay) but if they release the same amount of things in-game “for free”, slowly but still with a rhythm (not something, nothing during a year, then another thing), I’d be surprised and pleased.

They are attempting to do this with LS. People just do not like it for whatever reason. With the changes to the season list in your hero menu, all this content is not only replayable by anyone at anytime, but also has it’s own achievements. I do not know what people expect to get out of an expansion that cannot be delivered via the LS. Anyway, I am not against an expansion. I just feel that the current model will provide the same content more efficiently.

If Anet delivers a race and a profession during the Living Story, and some new skills and weapons, the opinion of the Living Story will change drastically.

It’s not that Anet could or couldn’t. It’s that so far, they haven’t. At least they’ve introduced a new zone. It’s a start.

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

The discussion is what happens for 1st few levels (up to 10) which would be 6ish in old xp curve.

Now at level 10 you have ALL weapon skills unlocked whether you depopulated lvl1 boars or not. What happened in lvl15+ in old leveling curve is irrelevant.

Well, last time i have levelled a char, i had all skills unlocked at about level 5. I didn’t need to grind for that at all, it was way, way easier than it was originally – even at level 1 unlocking was visibly faster than at launch.
…granted, it was an engi, but still.

Beldin.5498:

Ever tried unlocking all skills for all weapons on a level 2-5 Elementalist ? You could nearly level to 10 only with that grind i think .. and especially it was just awfull to grind masses of mobs in water attunement.

Yeah, i did, and it was bad… but that was before they made the changes that speeded that process up (i believe it happened around the same time as the china launch – maybe in the previous feature pack)

I think people may be confusing grinding with gating. There’s no grind at all to unlock these weapons, because as you level they unlock automatically. The old method had grinding because you had to kill to unlock. But it was very minimal and not noticable grinding.

I’m only clarifying this so we’re all on the same page. You’re leveling no matter what and it’s unlocking no matter what. The real issue here is gating, not grinding.

And the reason I say this is clarity. If we don’t want more gating than we had before, that’s the term we should all use to get the message across more clearly.

I’d not be sad if there was less gating on alts.

Dear Risen Veteran Subjugator,

If you’re having that much trouble, just run away. It worked for me.

All the best.

Logan Thackery

I don’t think Anet is out of touch in terms of not knowing what vocal forum goers want. It would be almost impossible for that to be the case. Is there really anyone here who thinks that Anet doesn’t realize some people want more dungeons? Because if so, there’s not much to talk about on that front.

They simply don’t make all their decisions on what a percentage of the fans want. And if I were in charge, I’m pretty sure I’d act in a similar manner.

I do think Anet tends to overcompensate often, but that doesn’t mean they’re out of touch. It means it’s either not feasible, or profitable to add to the game. Or it’s on a list somewhere and it’s being worked on. Or will be worked on.

Shadowsrb.6241:

unless u r some noob i dont see why do you even care about new collections,they just made table in menu for all pointless items in game and call it collection.Are you going to get 15 skins u dont need to get one reward skin u could use?Point is to spend money/gold so u must play more and collect more money/gold.

Strangely enough some people actually enjoy collecting things, even in real life. A bottle cap is worth nothing, but I know someone that collected them. Collectors don’t do it for some kind of reward. The collecting itself is fun for a collector.

I’ve collected all sorts of stuff in my life, so this is a great update for me. Naturally if you don’t like collecting, the rewards aren’t so great that you need to feel like you have to be a collector.

GreenAlien.5623:

I would like a Ranger pet collection.

I don’t think they’ll offer profession specific collections.

It’s probably quite different with different professions. No problems at all on my post patch ranger for example, but I could see where some professions might have more trouble than others. Rangers are just in a really good place now.

nicknamenick.2437:

Just checking it out on overwolf! :-)

btw who won the contest?

I’m pretty sure we’re all winners in this. lol

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That might have been sensible, except for one small point. The unlocks are the same for every class, while the trait spreads for reasonable builds for every class are different. What works for a warrior would be a terrible build for a guardian or ele.

Sure but each build as different traits. So the idea that they could simple look at the what trait we want to be decent and put that trait for each profession at kessex, so it unlocks early. A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

but they didnt do it that way, they just place the traits by their numerical position, except for falling damage which is always obsidian sanctum.

so trait iii on the power(1st) line, will always be gendarren field, regardless how useful or not useful it is, or what it does

I’m going to look at it. They did move some traits around for that patch. I’ll just see how generally useful that trait is across all professions and work from there. It’s something to test, that’s all. I have no idea if it’s right or not.

Somehow I don’t think anyone will really care about this.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

But, what if someone wants to do jumping puzzles, and they are really bad at jumping.

Actually, I almost never use the falling trait. The only time I remember equipping that was to drop off ledges in the Borderlands maps to survive a fall that would be fatal without the trait. It can also be fun to troll people sometimes by using the trait and falling off a ledge, and seeing if they will chase you and die because they don’t have the trait equipped.

The point is they’re assuming a first time character is going through the game and needs survival help not JP help. If you’re really bad at JPs particularly why would you stop all progress to do them. The trait CAN be bought but they want to, I think, take the guess work out of it for the early stuff. Stuff like the falling damage trait is the perfect trait to lock behind a harder thing, because it’s of less general use.

Second or third characters could easily buy it.

Astralporing.1957:

MikaHR.1978:

before: grind mobs, grind mobs and then grind some more mobs for every single skill of every single weapon or NO weapons skills for YOU!

That’s not how it worked for at least half a year now. There was a change sometimes ago, that made it so each new skill required less grind the higher your level – at ~15-20 you needed one-two hits to unlock any, even the last one.

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That might have been sensible, except for one small point. The unlocks are the same for every class, while the trait spreads for reasonable builds for every class are different. What works for a warrior would be a terrible build for a guardian or ele.

Sure but each build as different traits. So the idea that they could simple look at the what trait we want to be decent and put that trait for each profession at kessex, so it unlocks early. A trait like the falling trait for each class they gate, because they don’t consider that something useful for low level characters trying to survive.

Did you get the Grawl Archaeological one?

Zaxares.5419:

Wait, YOU get infractions, Vayne? O.o

You have no idea. Sometimes I think my middle name is infraction.

On topic: has anyone tested this after today’s patch? Is this still a bug? Anyone?

Zaxares.5419:

Yeah. Especially so for Thieves (Steal) and Engineers (Kits), since their skill bars will change very frequently if they make use of their class mechanics.

Also eles with conjured weapons, necros with death shroud, warriors with banner, though I think only the thief unlocks that skill early enough in the game for this to be of major concern.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

I ran a store at one point with between 40 and 50 employees. I had five guys that were amazing. I mean really really awesome. I had another 10 that were good. There was simply no way to find another 30ish people who were as good as the main guys.

The Pareto Principle. That’s pretty much true in everything, though, not just in business. The same is true in science where the greatest breakthroughs can often come from a select few geniuses without the help of and often even in spite of their colleagues.

It’s actually quite common to have a few people pulling most of the weight. That happened at one of my previous places of employment. You’d have eight people on the floor, but only three of them would be doing any of the work. The other five would goof off unless you had someone to babysit them. But, there rarely was anyone to babysit them because many of the shiftleaders and even managers also didn’t do very much. So, unless you were lucky enough to be scheduled with a shift leader who made sure everything ran smoothly, or there was a manager there who would actually address any serious issues rather than pretend to be busy, you basically had the majority of the workforce doing little or nothing.

Some of the managers were even worse than the shift leaders, because they would literally do nothing when they were out on the floor. They basically just looked important and got upset with you for not being able to keep up with the workload, even if everyone else was goofing off and you were the only one trying to get anything done. So, some of the managers never really did or helped anything unless they were doing management work in the office or there was an issue that needed a manager’s attention (and even then, most issues were the result of work not being done by the employees who would goof off if nobody watched them)

It’s pretty common for a small number of people to be holding everything together. At that place, it was basically two managers, one shift leader, and three or four people on the floor who kept everything running on a daily basis. I don’t know about how efficiently things ran off the floor, as I never worked in the other departments.

At one employee meeting we even came up with an idea to elect one of our most competent coworkers as an unofficial floor leader who could give an overall direction for what the team should be doing at any given time. I thought this was a good idea, since that’s what the shift leaders were supposed to be doing but they rarely ever did. The management didn’t think it would ever work.

Sorry deleted my post. I just can’t afford more infractions, and I’m at the point where I just don’t know if something I type relatively innocently will be taken wrong.

Osculim.2983:

JCROY.5730:

chemiclord.3978:

(Additional note: the simplification of some heart quests was… humorously poor. Were people really having so much trouble with “see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?”)

besides the fact that I agree with you on this…
I am SO gonna steal this from you as my new Signature..“see cow, grab bundle, feed cow?” LOL PRICELESS!!
tnx for the effort on the new levelling stuff

You do know why the cow bundle was removed right ? If you don’t then let me tell you. The lazy key farmers used the bundles speedbuff to run to the story quest at the bandit cave and thats why not because it was to hard to do the quest

Not sure that this is the case. In Plains of Ashford the removed the cattle prods from the cow event as well.

I think they want to leave the skill bar unchanged, and let people get used to that. I think it’s silly.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

That actually makes a lot of sense.

Whenever something happens that makes no sense to me, I think I must have missed something. I figure they didn’t get together in a room and draw straws. I figure they have a reason whether I know it or not (or whether it’s a good reason or not).

I was leveling a character, I honestly don’t remember which profession now, to test the April 15th patch. I got the kessex chest without even realizing it was an unlock but when I looked I was like, okay I can see the value of this one being so easy. But I didn’t follow through and check everything else because I’m lazy as hell. lol

Sokia.3710:

Behellagh.1468:

Yeah I know. There are a couple of adept traits for thieves which are similarly heinous. They should have made all the unlocks at the level or below where you can slot that trait

I have no idea why they would even make it to where you need to go to a higher level area than the level that it takes to get enough trait points to get that trait tier. That is hilariously bad design. How did that even leave the brainstorming room?

I have a working theory. But it’s just that, a theory. I’d have to do a lot more testing to see if this is what happened. Anet didn’t believe people could make their own builds so they made certain traits they saw as advantageous to leveling very easy to get (like the chest in Kessex which anyone can do), and put the ones that were much less beneficial (on average anyway) behind harder targets…trying to guide people to the easier stuff that might help them right away.

Just a shot in the dark here.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

Yep, Anet really dropped the ball on the trait unlocking thing.

The main issue that I have is that some of the traits need simpler tasks to unlock. Difficult events or events which require a group, and things like mapping are a bit exsessive just to unlock a single trait. And, Obsidian Sanctum? Seriously? Is that really a requirement for one of the traits?

I mean, even capturing elite skills in Guild Wars 1 sounds less tedious, and some of those capture points were way out of the way. But at least there, you only had to kill a single monster and not uncover the entire map.

I don’t think unlocking any trait should require group content. That is to say no dungeons, no giant grub in WvW, no taking a tower even. Don’t force people to do stuff they hate to get this stuff or overpay.

It doesn’t make the game more fun for anyone.

In the patch notes. They fixed the bug.

@phys

I think the reason you may have thought I had more fun leveling, is because I referred to someone else’s thread and didn’t put the “I Had more Fun Leveling” in quotes. That person who posted, who’s thread I was referring to had more fun leveling. Easy enough to misconstrue if you’re reading fast. I was never something I said.

Donari.5237:

Behellagh.1468:

Sokia.3710:

Fernling.1729:

I’m missing something here… You only have to unlock a few of the top traits, right?

You have to unlock every single trait individually, except for Minor traits which still function the same as before.

But you don’t have to unlock all of them, just the ones you want to use. You can’t honestly say that you’ve used all the traits in all the trait lines.

I finally got back to leveling a sub-80 alt. He was made after April but before September. I took him from level 35 to 36 today, got a trait point, and said OK! Time to get my fall damage trait! (That being my first trait choice on every alt ever). He’s a Necro. And apparently the unlock is to do Obsidium Sanctum.

HELL no.

That ain’t happening.

I scanned other traits. The kill-a-single-tough-thing ones were fine for me, the do TA and CM Story look to be simple enough, but 100% map completion of a zone for others? I think my trait selection is going to be dictated by which tasks I can do, not what build I actually want. At least for this alt who mostly exists to test out some PS and systems, not to be a core character.

So while it sounds like levels 1 to 15 aren’t the shambles many claim, later levels may in fact be annoying if I want to test out Necro traits I haven’t used on my two 80 Necros. That’s how I keep alts fresh, I give them different flavors of the profession.

Yep, Anet really dropped the ball on the trait unlocking thing.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

snip
All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

uhh you say you had the same experience, but he said it was kind of annoying and a bit tedious, whereas you said it was fun and drove you to level more.

I would say that means yall have fairly different experiences

Here are quotes from some of my threads on leveling (there are a couple more but this should prove something anyway):

“Arguably, in some ways the game is harder for new players. Even some older players are saying it’s more challenging now, because they have less skills and not a fully working downed state. I won’t look for the threads but I’ve seen it mentioned at least twice.
I know when I’m going through starter zones now, I have to move more. I can’t depend on skills. I have to be more careful because I don’t get those other slots that used to protect me unlocked as early.

Be that as it may, we’ve always had level gated abilities and I’m not so sure the time to unlock most of it is so vastly different, that it’s worthy of the outcry we’ve heard.
There are definitely issues with it. I’m not sure why Anet took away the hints section, even if they took away the achievement. They should put it back. It’s weird not to have access to hints and tips all the time.
I don’t think the choices made with the downed state are right at all, but it has nothing to do with level gating.
And I think it’s problematic that leveling with some professions for the first 15 levels is much harder/longer than leveling with other professions.
But over all, I think it’s a step in the right direction. It was always going to need adjustment."

“Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.
Switching weapons was gated at level 7. No one talked about gating until the gating changed. Now nothing should be gated. Most of it was gated before in some way.
Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.
Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.
I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.
You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.
There is gating, but there has always been gating.”

snip

didnt really see the connection, maybe too much text, but am i to assume you also think that overall the changes make the game a bit more boring and annoying?

I’m saying, and said from the beginning, I got through the 15 levels so fast, the annoyance barely registered. I specifically didn’t like how downed skills unlocked. I didn’t care about the skill point unlocks (though I understand other people did).

I liked getting the little ding and click on something every level.

So yeah, annoyances, but there were fun bits in it. Obviously, I don’t personally need to have my skills gated and it didn’t make leveling more entertaining for me. But then I didn’t think that patch was meant to make my life better. It was meant to keep new people in the game, which Anet believes it will. I can’t say because I’m not a new player.

My biggest comment was about the fan overreaction. It’s not that it’s not inconvenient. It’s not so horrible that I think I’d call a nationwide boycott, particularly if it does help people stay in the game.

My problems were with the misinformation (quite a bit of that going around), the over-reaction, the threatening, the posturing, the name calling. I said all along it would require adjustment even from the beginning, but I assumed it would be adjusted (and I still believe that).

It’s for new players to get them into the game. It’s more inconvenient but faster those first levels, which was fine by me. And then till 80 I continue to get stuff every level.

So yes, more inconvenient, does not equal (to me anyway), let’s all leave the game and go play that lovely Arch Age (which I understand may have a problem or two of its own and that’s essentially head start).

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

Glad you’re doing this, because if it were me, I’d be biased and a white knight fan boy. Pretty much my experience with it too. The different for me was that I had two characters I tested it on, one I leveled from scratched and a higher level character in my 50s. I really like getting rare gear every few levels and stuff to put on it, because normally I just waited until something dropped. Didn’t feel it was worth buying stuff for stuff I’d change in 5 levels anyway.

With the new drops I actually am more powerful than I used to be without buying or crafting anything. And things aren’t nearly as underleveled as they were for me in the old system.

Naturally I could craft or buy stuff, but I never really worried about a piece unless it was 20 levels under.

All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

uhh you say you had the same experience, but he said it was kind of annoying and a bit tedious, whereas you said it was fun and drove you to level more.

I would say that means yall have fairly different experiences

Here are quotes from some of my threads on leveling (there are a couple more but this should prove something anyway):

“Arguably, in some ways the game is harder for new players. Even some older players are saying it’s more challenging now, because they have less skills and not a fully working downed state. I won’t look for the threads but I’ve seen it mentioned at least twice.
I know when I’m going through starter zones now, I have to move more. I can’t depend on skills. I have to be more careful because I don’t get those other slots that used to protect me unlocked as early.
Be that as it may, we’ve always had level gated abilities and I’m not so sure the time to unlock most of it is so vastly different, that it’s worthy of the outcry we’ve heard.
There are definitely issues with it. I’m not sure why Anet took away the hints section, even if they took away the achievement. They should put it back. It’s weird not to have access to hints and tips all the time.
I don’t think the choices made with the downed state are right at all, but it has nothing to do with level gating.
And I think it’s problematic that leveling with some professions for the first 15 levels is much harder/longer than leveling with other professions.
But over all, I think it’s a step in the right direction. It was always going to need adjustment.”

“Things have always been gated, even in Guild Wars 2. Your skills have always been gated. you didn’t unlock your first slot skill to level 5, your second till level ten and your third to level 20. If you believed it was wrong to gate, it should have been wrong last week too.
Switching weapons was gated at level 7. No one talked about gating until the gating changed. Now nothing should be gated. Most of it was gated before in some way.
Elite skills were at level 30 before, now they’re at 40 but Anet tells us they unlock at about the same number of hours played.
Is this new method slightly more inconvenient. Sure it is. But if Anet is right and this helps keep people just starting out and from free demo weekends, it’s probably worth it. Having more people in the game benefits everyone.
I don’t think these inconveniences are so bad. They don’t significantly change the game for me. Experienced players often have level 20 scrolls anyway. PvPers have tomes galore.
You can still level in EoTM. You can still PvP from level 2.
There is gating, but there has always been gating.”

Bonus quote:

“QFT. Anet takes a lot of flack for not delivering on things announced. But if Anet came out and said, clearly and front in center, that certain things are delayed or have been moved to the back burner, most reasonable fans would understand.
Anet not saying anything is pretty much Anet asking for trouble. The logic is simple.
If I tell my wife we’re probably going on vacation in June to Europe and I can’t make it, I probably should let her know before September. It would save me a lot of grief in the long run.
She might very well be disappointed if I came and told her I couldn’t get time off, or we couldn’t afford a vacation to Europe but she’s understand.”

Glad you’re doing this, because if it were me, I’d be biased and a white knight fan boy. Pretty much my experience with it too. The different for me was that I had two characters I tested it on, one I leveled from scratched and a higher level character in my 50s. I really like getting rare gear every few levels and stuff to put on it, because normally I just waited until something dropped. Didn’t feel it was worth buying stuff for stuff I’d change in 5 levels anyway.

With the new drops I actually am more powerful than I used to be without buying or crafting anything. And things aren’t nearly as underleveled as they were for me in the old system.

Naturally I could craft or buy stuff, but I never really worried about a piece unless it was 20 levels under.

All in all, the extra stuff I get from higher levels I like enough to not worry so much about the lower levels.

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Sokia.3710:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Wasn ‘t the starting instance always unlosable? Because I remember trying to fail it during BWE3 and couldn’t.

I have no idea.

I’m sorry.

Stop saying that and get an idea. You have no idea how infuriating it is when you say something which is wrong and then claim to not have tested it.

How in the flying kitten am I supposed to test whether the starter instance has always been impossible to lose? Is Arenanet planning to give me access to every patch since BWE?

Do you have any idea how dumb you just sounded for insulting me for not testing something which is physically impossible for me to test?

No but I did point out in several threads that this was the case.

If you’re not interested in the WvW tournament, then there’s nothing new till Halloween and the new living story, which many theorize will continue the unveiling of the new zone.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

Sokia.3710:

ipan.4356:

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Yeah. Just like in Legend Of Mana. You choose what weapon you want to start with, and you have a little preview of what it looks like when you are creating your character.

I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their own weapon, certainly for a first character anyway.

A developer can better control the experience balancing the starting area for a single weapon, rather than having to wonder if every weapon has the same rough peformance, which isn’t always the case.

I’m going to have to disagree with you Vayne. I think choosing the weapon is an important choice, and too important to not give the player. Especially when, I believe, you can still purchase basic white weapons (inside the cities) cheaply to experiment with.

Yep, like I said, I have mixed feelings. But a first time player is going to have this idea Ranger = bow. He might never think of anything else. Necro = staff. Same thing. By starting people with kittenual weapon Anet is telling them directly that this is not going to be like every other game you play.

Sokia.3710:

ipan.4356:

I told them in the beta that choosing a starting weapon should be part of the char creation process.

Yeah. Just like in Legend Of Mana. You choose what weapon you want to start with, and you have a little preview of what it looks like when you are creating your character.

I have mixed feelings about letting people choose their own weapon, certainly for a first character anyway.

A developer can better control the experience balancing the starting area for a single weapon, rather than having to wonder if every weapon has the same rough peformance, which isn’t always the case.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

But we really are talking 10 minutes into the game. New weapons drop more often now, remember? I had new weapons a couple of minutes later. I’m still not sure that what they would rather have is an issue, because no one is usually thinking that way.

New player in a game, you see what drops. You don’t get your first reward in a game and think I’d rather have X. It comes fast enough anyway.

actually on almost every charachter i played in this game even from head start, i was thinking i would rather have a different weapon. Its statistically unlikely that the weapon they choose to start a player off with, represents his prefered style, and even if it did, the possibility of a new weapon option is more enticing than a slight damage upgrade.

let me think, mesmer starts off with scepter, probably the least loved mesmer weapon
guardian club, definately niche
warrior 1h sword, one of many
ranger longbow, i personally prefer sword, axes, greatsword

yeah just about every charachter i had, if i had a choice between a different weapon i would have picked it, and that is going back to beta weekend events.

Not what I was saying. The first time you ever played this game, if you said that I’d call you a statistical minority. However, now, you get those other weapons much faster than you used to, or at least I did. Since the drops have been changed so you get more profession appropriate drops, you will much more likely have a weapon you want sooner than later.

In fact, in the old version all you got was an offhand, not a main hand weapon, so you still had to use the same weapon.

im not a statistical minority
first you have to realize, in this game, weapons often tied to playstyle
second you have to realize most classes have like at least 5 different weapons.(weaponskill sets)
If every weapon is liked equally, the chances you gave someone the weapon they liked is at best 1/5 or lower (barring ele and engineer)

statistically speaking most people will want a different weapon.

We’re talking about first time players here. Since no one would know the play style of any weapon starting up,. wanting a different weapon on your first play through would likely make you a statistical minority.

I’m pretty sure most people don’t go into a game and say I want different weapons until they tried the first weapon. Currently they can only try a single skill of the first weapon. It’s not until the get that reward that the second skill even unlocks.

You have to be very particularly want a different weapon in a game you just started without even knowing that the weapon you have does.

Sokia.3710:

Nokaru.7831:

Most of the changes made were done in haste. Don’t believe me? Did you know that bulk amounts of Apples and all sources of Green Beans were simply deleted from their game as they carelessly removed Karma items from the starting areas?

Bold claims. You better be careful with that. Vayne might find out that you are wrong and spreading misinformation, and then claim that he should question all of your forum posts because you made a couple of false claims.

For that matter, I hope Vayne does test this in-game. People have been saying that you can only buy apples one at a time now, and that there is no longer anywhere to get green beans.

I’m sure Vayne will swoop in shortly to correct you. You are almost certainly wrong about there no longer being any way to get green beans. Even the wiki says that you can get green beans as a possible drop from Mawdrey II

You’re so cute when you try to justify talking about a patch you haven’t even tested.

If it’s a fact that it’s true (and I don’t know if it is or isn’t) I have no problem with it. It’s entirely possible that NPCs were removed from starting areas. I just don’t know if they’ve been moved anywhere else yet.

Odyssey.2613:

It’s tiresome seeing your name plastered everywhere with the same theme of belittling, marginalizing, and contradictory double talk post after post after post.

Sorry if I come off …sharp. It’s not a personal attack. But hey, you can certainly go ahead and report my post again if you’d like. Afterall, I’m pretty sure I’m not the guy everyone hopes to avoid when they click on a thread.

If they bother you so much, feel free to skip my posts. I’m okay with that.

Nokaru.7831:

Vayne.8563:

So yeah, unless you can come up with an MMO more popular than World of Warcraft, I think we’re done here.

Oh so we’re appealing to popularity now, are we? I’m fine with this, actually. Did you know WoW went and revamped its leveling experience in the Cataclysm expansion and that expansion is touted as a failure primarily as a result of it? It ended up not bringing in new players as they expected.

For all of their billion-dollar success, Blizzard does not have unlimited labor and resources. Their focus on revamping their leveling process ended up hurting the quality and quantity of their raid content. Their first raids all had bosses that were buggy or easily exploited; their second raid had only seven bosses; and their final raid had most of the instance set in a zone from a previous expansion, with most bosses not using unique models.

ArenaNet is a much smaller company than Blizzard. However, they decided to revamp their leveling experience in less than two years after their launch; WoW did it six years after theirs. Just like WoW, revamping the leveling experience came at a cost to content that veteran players would enjoy.

No I’m not playing the popularity card. I was replying directly to someone who said that Anet has megaservers, so therefore it had empty zones, so therefore it must be doing badly.

None of this follows. If the most popular MMO has empty zones, then saying that another game is doing badly because it has empty zones is a red herring. And that’s all I was really saying. Empty zones (particularly mid level zones) in an MMO are not an indication of the MMO’s health.

I’d love to see a quote from Blizzard saying that the new starter zones were responsible for the drop in popularity. Because I attribute it to a lot of other things. New starting zones were not among them.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

hydeaut.1758:

Vayne.8563:

But personally I think it’s enough reward for getting through the starter instance. It does what it needs to do.

And this is where you and Anet terribly fail and where their disconnect comes from: they don´t see it through the eyes of the player.

A new player won´t say: “Hey, great, Anet want´s me to teach how to change weapons”, he will see that he receives a reward which is practically the same weapon he already has.

Let´s foresee the conversation we´ll have in a few months:

Forum: “No wonder the free trial wasn´t a success if Anet doesn´t listen to feedback”.

You: “It would have been if the game would not have been talked down”.

There´s always a way out, isn´t it?

Really?

So a new player to an MMO goes through a five minute starter instance and expects what? A precusor? Give me a break.

A new player starting on his first instance getting his first reward for the starter instance is probably expecting basic beginner stuff.

But the rest of the leveling experience offers far more rewards and it originally did. Maybe you’re just having trouble seeing it from a new player perspective.

Guild Wars 1 you got like no rewards for doing anything in the beginning. The rewards were minscule. No one cared, because it was the beginning.

Nothing you get in any MMO in the first ten levels that I can think of is something you’ll fondly remember a week later.

i think the point is, they may have more interest in a different weapon at that point rather than the same weapon.

But we really are talking 10 minutes into the game. New weapons drop more often now, remember? I had new weapons a couple of minutes later. I’m still not sure that what they would rather have is an issue, because no one is usually thinking that way.

New player in a game, you see what drops. You don’t get your first reward in a game and think I’d rather have X. It comes fast enough anyway.

actually on almost every charachter i played in this game even from head start, i was thinking i would rather have a different weapon. Its statistically unlikely that the weapon they choose to start a player off with, represents his prefered style, and even if it did, the possibility of a new weapon option is more enticing than a slight damage upgrade.

let me think, mesmer starts off with scepter, probably the least loved mesmer weapon
guardian club, definately niche
warrior 1h sword, one of many
ranger longbow, i personally prefer sword, axes, greatsword

yeah just about every charachter i had, if i had a choice between a different weapon i would have picked it, and that is going back to beta weekend events.

Not what I was saying. The first time you ever played this game, if you said that I’d call you a statistical minority. However, now, you get those other weapons much faster than you used to, or at least I did. Since the drops have been changed so you get more profession appropriate drops, you will much more likely have a weapon you want sooner than later.

In fact, in the old version all you got was an offhand, not a main hand weapon, so you still had to use the same weapon.