Guild Wars 2

Tman.6349:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

PrinceWarhero.4256:

Vayne.8563:

Seven skill points, a booster and a salvage kit? Sounds like a decent reward to me.

previously we used to get 1 skill point per level. now its 7 skill point given at end of every 7th level !!! lame

Actually it’s not lame. It’s better. Because by the time you get to higher levels, 1 skill point does absolutely nothing. You probably all the one point skills you need long before that. When this game was designed skill point scrolls didn’t exist either.

There’s nothing lame about the decision.

So your position is that absolutely no one ever has any use for a number of skillpoints smaller than 7, and that’s why it’s better to just give out 7 at a time?

Not my position at all. My position as quoted in another thread is that getting the same reward every single level predictably is more boring than getting different stuff at every level. When you got a skill point every level, it wasn’t special. It was something you got every level 75 times in a row. It’s very hard to look at a single skill point at level 63 and go YES! a skill point.

Even though it’s exactly the same, because you don’t get it every level it’s far more exciting to see seven skill points. This is basic, human psychology.

To people playing the game, it makes less difference than people starting new probably but it still makes a different for me. I see the new rewards and I get a bit of a boost from them. I never got that from the old rewards.

If that’s not your position, perhaps you shouldn’t be stating things that pretty much imply that it is your position.

My position is complex. Having to retype the same stuff in every thread gets tiring. I didn’t really feel it needed to be repeated here, I just gave the amount of information I felt was needed. I’m sure wouldn’t enjoy anyone telling you how to post, so I’d appreciate it if you not tell me how to post.

If clarification is required, people can always ask for it.

On VERY special occasions, you could even choose to not argue or interject yourself into every “I Don’t Like [X]” thread that pops up, especially when they’re of identical nature. haha but we all know that would never happen ;p

Since I don’t post in every thread I’d assuming you’re not paying much attention. Thanks for noticing

fellyn.5083:

And yet, somehow, leveling up doesn’t feel any more rewarding now than it did before.

Getting stat points and skill points every few arbitrary levels is not rewarding. When I level once, I expect to grow in power once. Not level 5 times and grow in power once. Even if the ratios are the same. That’s just weird and not only makes the game generally feel unbalanced as you level but it makes it more tedious as well.

Labjax.2465:

I can’t believe I’m defending the NPE right now (someone call my doctor) but those rewards were designed for new players. Furthermore, leveling up previously gave you nothing other than skill points and stats.

I’ll take something over nothing any day of the week. Are some of the rewards kind of dumb and could probably use revising? Undeniably.

If we want those wonky-looking rewards to be more level appropriate, our best bet is to point out why and give some suggestions for replacements. I mean, what exactly were you expecting for level 38?

And yet older players have to deal with the mess, too. Just because we’ve been here since the start doesn’t mean it makes our feedback invalid.

P.S. I asked my cousin and his kid, both of which just started playing about a month ago and they feel the changes are really confusing and don’t make leveling up more rewarding. They’re actually genuinely confused about what most of it means and why it needs to show up in a special box. Keep in mind this is a new player saying their new player experience changed for the worse.

It feels more rewarding to me. Other people have also said this.

Right now it’s a choice. You can speak to NPCs if you want to. Other people don’t have to.

I don’t think we should take away more choices in this game.

Most PS steps aren’t that hard, and anyone in a guild wouldn’t be charged. I don’t see that as a problem. But yes, I do think it’s always good to encourage people to help each other out.

fellyn.5083:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

PrinceWarhero.4256:

Vayne.8563:

Seven skill points, a booster and a salvage kit? Sounds like a decent reward to me.

previously we used to get 1 skill point per level. now its 7 skill point given at end of every 7th level !!! lame

Actually it’s not lame. It’s better. Because by the time you get to higher levels, 1 skill point does absolutely nothing. You probably all the one point skills you need long before that. When this game was designed skill point scrolls didn’t exist either.

There’s nothing lame about the decision.

So your position is that absolutely no one ever has any use for a number of skillpoints smaller than 7, and that’s why it’s better to just give out 7 at a time?

Not my position at all. My position as quoted in another thread is that getting the same reward every single level predictably is more boring than getting different stuff at every level. When you got a skill point every level, it wasn’t special. It was something you got every level 75 times in a row. It’s very hard to look at a single skill point at level 63 and go YES! a skill point.

Even though it’s exactly the same, because you don’t get it every level it’s far more exciting to see seven skill points. This is basic, human psychology.

To people playing the game, it makes less difference than people starting new probably but it still makes a different for me. I see the new rewards and I get a bit of a boost from them. I never got that from the old rewards.

You know one thing no one ever complained about? Getting the same basic reward every level. It’s almost like you didn’t know how boring and unrewarding the old system was until Anet told you that the new one was more rewarding. Which it isn’t.

And I know for sure that when I got 1 skill point I knew I could potentially unlock a skill (when anet didn’t decide which one it was for me). Under the new system? Nope. You unlock skills when we tell you that you can unlock skills. You’re lucky we let you decide which one.

And it’s not basic human psychology. It’s trying to a fix a problem that didn’t exist except in their metrics.

They’re letting a computer tell them what is good for the game instead of basic common sense. They spent a lot of dev time designing this kitten instead of literally anything else that has been requested (ahem precursor crafting/scavenger hunt) or talked about in the last 2 years.

Like I said before, they’re trying to fix a problem that didn’t exist.

You’re right and you’re wrong. People never complained about the leveling rewards, but people did say leveling didn’t feel satisfying or exciting, and it was up to Anet to figure out why, hence the TESTS they made, as opposed to our opinions.

Scipio.3204:

@Vayne,

Agreed on last sentence. Also I don’t think EotM was for WvWers, it was to play somewhere during long queues, and for that it’s perfect.
And I think we can say there is never a guarantee it will be popular . But I think anet took it too seriously a few times, see SAB world 2 or TA aether. (Also I don’t think the aether unique rewards was that much work)

And yes, obviously it’s easier to cater to people who are easily pleased. But probably those people never left the game, so why would they? Also I think too much focus on new players. I think there is a lot more potential in ex-players. Yeah probably free trial is incoming , which would explain the NPE, but right after china launch? I wouldn’t call it a wise move.

#MyLastPostForTheDayGn

In reality, how much focus is there on new players. In the last patch we had a few things for new players, but 90% of the changes were for everyone. New auction hows, collections, back end changes to group battle graphics, commander tag changes, WvW changes to siege and golems, the tournaments, crafting UI, all these things benefit everyone.

The changes for new players is just a small percentage of the upgrade and most things aren’t done for new players. The living story for example, now is only for level 80s. Dry Top is a new level 80 zone.

Where is all this stuff for new players I keep hearing about?

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

@Scipio

My point is we know that a dev said only 10% of people playing Lotro ever raided or did PvP. We know that the PvP population of Guild Wars 1 was higher than that, but I do remember a dev talking about DOA and how few people ever completed it. I wish I dev would come here and confirm that, because at this late date I’ll never find the quote.

Over years in this industry, we’ve seen devs make hard content that most players never get through, but you think, for some reason, Guild Wars 1 was different.

The elite zones in later games were nowhere near as hard or as long as the ones in Prophecies. Anet spent less and less time on them as the game advanced.

Who said I thought GW1 was different? I’m sure a lot of player didn’t complete the elite areas, YET they still continued to roll them out. Elite areas aren’t meant to hold the entire player population ,why would you think that? Same with PvP. But does that mean they shouldn’t make them? Let’s say Elite areas and a GW1 sized pvp holds additional ~20% player. The last number we heard about sold GW2 copies was 3.5 mill (+1 mil china), that would mean + 1 million active players. But ATM nothing holds the dedicated players but the living story.
My point is I think the development of GW2 follows a big mistake. Be new >> Be successful. Also a little bit of overdo on gemstore side but thats a different story.

Something like the Fissure of Woe or the Underworld would take a really long time to make. Even after they made it, there’d be no guarantee it would be popular. Much easier to make collections, which they can easily add to and keep the bigger percentage of the playerbase entertained.

If you had to budget time and money, you’d do the same thing.

Anet put a lot of time and energy into TA (aetherblade path), even giving it unique rewards and special achievements. They made EotM for WvWers, even though WvWers don’t tend to like it and are very disparaging about it. What on earth would possess them to spend even more time on demographics of people who may or may not like what you make, particularly if they’re not a clear majority?

It’s far better to cater to a majority of easy to cater to people, than a minority of hard to please people. Not even saying they’re not working on something because, honestly, no one knows.

Anet really needs to give us some indication of what they’re working on.

Nokaru.7831:

Vayne.8563:

If they were a clear majority, what’s the reason that Anet hasn’t made that or anything like it?

Yes, ArenaNet always acts in accordance with the majority. Haven’t you seen the New Player Experience? It’s met with nothing but universal acclaim!

Yes. Anet noticed a majority of people started the game and didn’t continue on, so they made a change and tested it to see if the majority of the people would play longer and stay more engaged.

Thanks for backing me up.

@Scipio

My point is we know that a dev said only 10% of people playing Lotro ever raided or did PvP. We know that the PvP population of Guild Wars 1 was higher than that, but I do remember a dev talking about DOA and how few people ever completed it. I wish I dev would come here and confirm that, because at this late date I’ll never find the quote.

Over years in this industry, we’ve seen devs make hard content that most players never get through, but you think, for some reason, Guild Wars 1 was different.

The elite zones in later games were nowhere near as hard or as long as the ones in Prophecies. Anet spent less and less time on them as the game advanced.

Generally thinking I feel the PS rewards are much better, with one issue.

A lot of us in the guild help each other or keep each other company through our personal stories. We play MMOs to play together.

Now, if I’m helping someone on a story or several in a row, just to hang out, there’s zero reward at all. No drops no nothing.

There should be some reward, even a small one, for people helping people through personal stories that aren’t theirs.

chemiclord.3978:

I also don’t think that the experience from this point on (outside of the clumping of skill points and stats) is going to be all that terribly different. At level 40, outside of the kittened up trait system, the game really wasn’t playing all that differently for me. By this point, it doesn’t feel particularly new. It’s, outside of those details, pretty much the leveling experience I know and remember. I really don’t think I’ll find anything unique to comment on going from level 40 on… it’ll just be pretty much the same review as 31-40.

So, I’m confident enough to call it here, honestly. I find leveling to be fairly tedious as a general rule regardless of system used, and I’m not particularly keen to go through 40 more levels of stuff I already know.

Except that the rewards for leveling are much much better. The yellow and later on even exotic items you get are pretty cool as you level.

However, if you liked leveling before (and many do) it’s fine. If you didn’t like it before, it’s not going to make it amazingly better. Nor does it make it amazingly worse.

RoyHarmon.5398:

Right… So, what does it do? Because I haven’t noticed it doing anything differently when I have it set to “default.”

Default means all the options are on. It points to PS and zone completion. Turning it off removes it. The other options specificy what it does and doesn’t point to.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

@scipio

Believe that if you like but it’s probably not true. So many people in GW 1 soloed, even before heroes were introduced. I guarantee you none of those people did UW. Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE. Those guys didn’t do it.

In almost every game I’ve known over years, we find from dev quotes that most people never completed the hardest content.

I wonder why anyone would think Guild Wars 1 was some kind of exception.

I never said I meant UW or even hard content. And I have to agree with the “Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE”. I mostly meant PvP , but it’s true for a lot of PvE parts as well. But on PvP : GW1 had the best PvP I ever played, Observer, Rating , tournaments, rewards , variety of game modes. In gw2 almost none of these returned, and the only mode we got is not even similar to the ones in 1.

I think I can say what we had was well functioning, popular and had levels from casual to hardcore. Now look at GW2 PvP: I can’t even spot a similarity.

Did you notice that as Guild Wars 1 got older and older, it shifted it’s focus away from PvP? Because I noticed that.

Many new PvE only skills. Less PvP support in each update. Again, Anet found which side their bread was buttered on.

But I believe they didn’t find it with the hard core “raiding” crowd. The UW, DOA guys. THey found it with the casual guys that just did more basic stuff.

That’s why they made Guild Wars 2 the way they did. In my opinion.

And you know, I have 50/50 in my HoM and I have my GWAMM title, but I almost never did end game instances nor did anyone in my guild or circle of friends.

It looks like a lot of peope do it, because they all crowd into Temple of Ages, but I believe it’s a small percentage of people who played the game.

Because many people don’t like to group, don’t like to speed run, don’t like to run specific builds, don’t like to be yelled at if they make a mistake, dont’ like to die over and over again to repeat content and pay a gold to get in.

Most people didn’t enjoy that…in my opinion.

But those that did, absolutely loved it.

To be honest, I think after factions they didn’t need to add anything to pvp, like I said they already had modes to casuals and to hardcores, and it already had variety with it’s 8 game modes and god knows how many maps.

But let’s turn our head to PvE . With the launch of the game we got UW & FoW ,yeah? After that they they decided to release another elite area known as Sorrow’s Furnace.
After that, with the release of factions they released even harder elite areas with bigger teams and after that DoA (And with the release of the battle isles the tomb of primeval kings). These were all HARD. If UW/FoW wasn’t that popular at the first place, why did they keep rolling out these? Not to mention Hard mode.

Now: GW2 didn’t start with any area considered as “elite”. I don’t think it’s because they think it would be unpopular. Also I think the some goes with expansions: GW1 working model with multiple released campaign or expansion(alongside with other games ofc).Can’t do that again , would be unoriginal, so Living World it is!

Are you really comparing Sorrow’s Furnace to UW? Really? Sorrow’s furnace was casual and a whole lot smaller. Sure it was an elite area, but it wasn’t the Deep or Urgoz’s warren.

They added a hard hard area with each game, just like Lotro added raids to each game, even though only 10% of the player base ever raided, according to one of their devs.

Compare? No. All I said was the first content patch they released (Probably based on numbers , how many played UW/FoW) was Sorrows (For those who don’t know, it was a free update, introduction of uniques and even a new zone + elite dungeon) an elite area. After that they decided to increase the difficulty with the newly released elite areas. I don’t think because it was unpopular

Also you completely ignored my point.

UW and FoW was significantly bigger than the Deep and Urgoz. Those zones are much faster to finish and more easily done.

Are you sure so many people did UW and FoW.

More to the point, the first elite area they added after those others was smaller and much much easier.

That should tell you something.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

@scipio

Believe that if you like but it’s probably not true. So many people in GW 1 soloed, even before heroes were introduced. I guarantee you none of those people did UW. Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE. Those guys didn’t do it.

In almost every game I’ve known over years, we find from dev quotes that most people never completed the hardest content.

I wonder why anyone would think Guild Wars 1 was some kind of exception.

I never said I meant UW or even hard content. And I have to agree with the “Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE”. I mostly meant PvP , but it’s true for a lot of PvE parts as well. But on PvP : GW1 had the best PvP I ever played, Observer, Rating , tournaments, rewards , variety of game modes. In gw2 almost none of these returned, and the only mode we got is not even similar to the ones in 1.

I think I can say what we had was well functioning, popular and had levels from casual to hardcore. Now look at GW2 PvP: I can’t even spot a similarity.

Did you notice that as Guild Wars 1 got older and older, it shifted it’s focus away from PvP? Because I noticed that.

Many new PvE only skills. Less PvP support in each update. Again, Anet found which side their bread was buttered on.

But I believe they didn’t find it with the hard core “raiding” crowd. The UW, DOA guys. THey found it with the casual guys that just did more basic stuff.

That’s why they made Guild Wars 2 the way they did. In my opinion.

And you know, I have 50/50 in my HoM and I have my GWAMM title, but I almost never did end game instances nor did anyone in my guild or circle of friends.

It looks like a lot of peope do it, because they all crowd into Temple of Ages, but I believe it’s a small percentage of people who played the game.

Because many people don’t like to group, don’t like to speed run, don’t like to run specific builds, don’t like to be yelled at if they make a mistake, dont’ like to die over and over again to repeat content and pay a gold to get in.

Most people didn’t enjoy that…in my opinion.

But those that did, absolutely loved it.

To be honest, I think after factions they didn’t need to add anything to pvp, like I said they already had modes to casuals and to hardcores, and it already had variety with it’s 8 game modes and god knows how many maps.

But let’s turn our head to PvE . With the launch of the game we got UW & FoW ,yeah? After that they they decided to release another elite area known as Sorrow’s Furnace.
After that, with the release of factions they released even harder elite areas with bigger teams and after that DoA (And with the release of the battle isles the tomb of primeval kings). These were all HARD. If UW/FoW wasn’t that popular at the first place, why did they keep rolling out these? Not to mention Hard mode.

Now: GW2 didn’t start with any area considered as “elite”. I don’t think it’s because they think it would be unpopular. Also I think the some goes with expansions: GW1 working model with multiple released campaign or expansion(alongside with other games ofc).Can’t do that again , would be unoriginal, so Living World it is!

Are you really comparing Sorrow’s Furnace to UW? Really? Sorrow’s furnace was casual and a whole lot smaller. Sure it was an elite area, but it wasn’t the Deep or Urgoz’s warren.

They added a hard hard area with each game, just like Lotro added raids to each game, even though only 10% of the player base ever raided, according to one of their devs.

phys.7689:

chemiclord.3978:

31-40

Ya know, I kinda like how the Personal Story is clumped together. I find I don’t have to think, “Who is [x] character again?” because it was several levels between visits.

I do like how the rewards have improved as well (many of the items allow you to choose what stats you want rather than pre-determined (and usually pretty poor). And of top of that, finishing this PS segment earned me an Order related weapon skin. Not too shabby.

I also conveniently earned another clump of skill points just in time to grab my elite skill just as they unlocked (Rampage as One, obviously). I guess it kinda worked out… but I’m skill not completely sold on this entire “get everything in clumps” strategy. I mean, I kinda get the logic behind it (I can see how players could kinda “forget” getting 1 trait point and 1 skill point when each step requires multiple points), but it’s still kinda meh.

Meanwhile, as far as trait hunting goes, I immediately found one absurd one that was fairly fundamental for the Ranger build (Vigorous Spirits), which required exploring all of Harathi Hinterlands to unlock.

Eff.

That.

I mean, I kinda get how it could work, as additional incentive for new players to do things they wouldn’t normally think of doing. But for someone who has already explored Harathi three times?

Eff.

That.

So I cheated, and had my other ranger (the level 80 with a bajillion skill points) buy the guides and drop them in my bank. Sorry. I guess it’s nice that you can do it that way… but it’s still pretty stupid that something that was perfectly fine to begin with is now something so poorly implemented.

Other traits weren’t particularly time consuming, and often were a surprise to stumble on, like earning one through kill Kol in Harathi. If more were like that (having to go off the more beaten path) rather than something merely time consuming (like zone exploration), it’d be more bearable.

I’ll admit to bias, I’m not a fan of “hunting” things for trivial reasons. I despised the elite skill capping of GW1. I came into this having already decided I was going to hate the trait capping of GW2. So take that in mind when I say I pretty much entirely loathe what Arena.net did to the trait system.

Revert it back to the way it was, please. I want all my traits without having to do stupid stuff to get them. Thank you.

So, I’m now at level 40, where the NPE was supposed to really come to an “end” initially, and my personal judgment of the matter is “eh.” It’s not nearly as terrible as the vocal forum presence wants to claim… but it’s not a particularly impressive improvement on what existed before.

Some things are better. Some things are more annoying. I guess if you had never played the game before, you wouldn’t be bothered, and would probably like it. For a veteran, I really think the best Arena.net can hope for is that you find it more different than worse.

For me, that’s how I’ve decided to view it.

Except for trait capping.

That can die in a fire.

the npe, is the entire package, they broke it up here, but in china it was released together.
New player is going from 1-80 the first time.
the trait system totally changes the balance of skillpoint, aka traits versus utilities. It dramatically increases the time to getting a max skill/trait/level charachter. Now, you use the same resource to obtain your traits, and your utilities, or you do tasks that most people take quite some time doing.

I disagree that the trait change is part of the NPE. There were many changes to the China game. But the NPE is the new player experience, about leveling and leveling rewards. You can say the trait change is part of it, but it has to be discussed separately anyway.

Because I don’t like the trait system but I like everything else.

For all intents and purposes it’s a different system.

aop.6052:

Gaile Gray.6029:

The team is open to suggestions.

Yeah right, you even closed down the entire Suggestions forum.

Sure they did. Because they said that suggestions made more sense to be in the forums they’re appropriate for where more people would see them who were interested in them. It makes sense, since many, if not most people, never went to the suggestion forums.

Putting the idea out front and center, instead of burying it on a forum most people didn’t go to was a smart move, not a bad one.

Scipio.3204:

Vayne.8563:

@scipio

Believe that if you like but it’s probably not true. So many people in GW 1 soloed, even before heroes were introduced. I guarantee you none of those people did UW. Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE. Those guys didn’t do it.

In almost every game I’ve known over years, we find from dev quotes that most people never completed the hardest content.

I wonder why anyone would think Guild Wars 1 was some kind of exception.

I never said I meant UW or even hard content. And I have to agree with the “Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE”. I mostly meant PvP , but it’s true for a lot of PvE parts as well. But on PvP : GW1 had the best PvP I ever played, Observer, Rating , tournaments, rewards , variety of game modes. In gw2 almost none of these returned, and the only mode we got is not even similar to the ones in 1.

I think I can say what we had was well functioning, popular and had levels from casual to hardcore. Now look at GW2 PvP: I can’t even spot a similarity.

Did you notice that as Guild Wars 1 got older and older, it shifted it’s focus away from PvP? Because I noticed that.

Many new PvE only skills. Less PvP support in each update. Again, Anet found which side their bread was buttered on.

But I believe they didn’t find it with the hard core “raiding” crowd. The UW, DOA guys. THey found it with the casual guys that just did more basic stuff.

That’s why they made Guild Wars 2 the way they did. In my opinion.

And you know, I have 50/50 in my HoM and I have my GWAMM title, but I almost never did end game instances nor did anyone in my guild or circle of friends.

It looks like a lot of peope do it, because they all crowd into Temple of Ages, but I believe it’s a small percentage of people who played the game.

Because many people don’t like to group, don’t like to speed run, don’t like to run specific builds, don’t like to be yelled at if they make a mistake, dont’ like to die over and over again to repeat content and pay a gold to get in.

Most people didn’t enjoy that…in my opinion.

But those that did, absolutely loved it.

phys.7689:

Vayne.8563:

@scipio

Believe that if you like but it’s probably not true. So many people in GW 1 soloed, even before heroes were introduced. I guarantee you none of those people did UW. Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE. Those guys didn’t do it.

In almost every game I’ve known over years, we find from dev quotes that most people never completed the hardest content.

I wonder why anyone would think Guild Wars 1 was some kind of exception.

we would be talking about pve people obviously, and you could defeat paths of underworld with henchmen, and some solo. Yes, many people who solo are not afraid of difficult content. It became easier and more feasible when heroes were added, but you do realize heroes were added less than 2 years after release?

so yeah many people soloed, and soloing didnt mean you couldnt attempt elite instances.
think about it, every single ecto in gw1 was obtained by someone playing an elite instance.
do you still think that was a rare occurence?

also note, end game, that is not solo exclusive

Okay this is a bit misleading.

Heroes were added two years after release, but you could only take 3 of htem at that time. Henchmen were never allowed into the mists.

So no one could solo the Underworld in the first two years, and I’m extremely skeptical that anyone beat it with three heroes. I believe the game was well over five years old before you could take seven heroes, which they probably implemented because of the lower population.

@scipio

Believe that if you like but it’s probably not true. So many people in GW 1 soloed, even before heroes were introduced. I guarantee you none of those people did UW. Many people just PvPed and ignored PvE. Those guys didn’t do it.

In almost every game I’ve known over years, we find from dev quotes that most people never completed the hardest content.

I wonder why anyone would think Guild Wars 1 was some kind of exception.

Simzani.4318:

And the worst is that the LS team is really proud to take another 4 month break that will bring us a new mini-map. They rotate on a 1 month work / 3 month break. What is arenanet doing with their 350 workers ? Why we only see a small team work after 2 years ? Where is something that derail in this big company ? Where is the mark at how the work of these 350 workers is never seen ? What is happening in this studio ?

No one is taking a break. Other projects are being worked on. That’s all.

Content isn’t always delivered when it’s completed. You make it sound like the living word team all went on vacation at the same time. The living world team does other stuff as well.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Vayne.8563:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

phys.7689:

Beldin.5498:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Beldin.5498:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

If you’re complaining about this content, which is widely considered the end-game content for pretty much every other MMO out there, then what content do you expect to get when you’re asking for an endgame here?

Running Underworld 2920 times in 8 years .. that is fun endgame for the GW1 players i always have the feeling.

Repeating stuff is always boring .. as long as it is not Underworld.

This means nothing to me, because I don’t know what Underworld is, and I’m sure a lot of other users also don’t know. Be descriptive, man. :-|

No problem .. i also don’t know what Underworld is .. but reading the forums and
especially comments from all those GW1 fans then there were maybe 3 zones
called Underworld, The Deep and Ulgoz (or something like that) that were soooo
amazing that they played them endloss for 8 years .. and while everything else
gets boring after doing it 5 times, those zones were sooo amazing that they will
not be boring even if you continue playing them until 2250 at least

Underworld was one of the main dungeons in the game, but it was a dungeon designed like a small zone, with like 8 quests in it. It was relatively fairly difficult (compared to the standard content in the game)
you can think of it like dungeons are in this game, except larger, with more paths all at once.
People didnt always go in with the intent to play the whole zone, they would sometimes just do a couple areas.

Full party death kicked you out of the instance.
you could get tired of it, but it was fairly challenging to complete, and it would take many runs before you saw/did everything for most people. Different order events made the run a bit different depending who you played with.
it had good random drops from enemies, so people were happy to even play the parts of it they liked, as opposed to the whole thing.

game design wise, it was a pretty good game mode.

they also added new dungeons, so people who played it for 6-8 years actually wanted to play it for that time.

I was thinking about this.

Do you think the UW design was so good because of the quests/map textures and overall open-ended nature of the content?

Looking back and thinking about it, I think the reason why UW was so fun was that:

a. It was a challenge that you could LOSE.
b. There were penalties for dying.
c. Both a. and b. meant that team cooperation was paramount.
d. The rewards were rewarding if your party played well, you lost money if your party played poorly (due to the entrance fee and being kicked out for a full wipe.)

There is not a single dungeon in game that meets ANY of those criteria, EXCEPT maybe a few particular fractals or a few Arah paths.

Any composition can complete nearly any path. You can’t LOSE. Your team may rage quit if it’s terribad, but you can’t actually lose if you keep trying.

There are no penalties for dying. None.

Teams don’t NEED to plan. Sure the speedrunners will might stack, some pugs may decide which warrior is taking which banner, but overall it’s enter dungeon and YOLO mode everything. Bearbow rangers, flamethrower engis, staff guardians, full necro party? Who cares, the content is so easy that you hardly have to plan. Maybe put some walls down here and there for reflects… but really… there’s just no complexity.

Finally, the last point. Rewards. There seems to be two categories of rewards in this game. The guaranteed reward and the so-RNG-gated-that-you’ll-never-see-it-drop reward. Why not something in between? Why not content that is more rewarding the better your team performs?

It was good for a percentage of the playerbase. I’m relatively sure most people that played Guild Wars 1 never even attempted the Underworld and that’s the problem.

The people who liked it and swear by it, in my opinion are nowhere close to any kind of majority. Which might be why Anet didn’t make something else like that.

I’m relatively sure most people who played Guild Wars 1 attempted Underworld many times and enjoyed it.

The people who liked it and swear by it, in my opinion, are the clear majority. ANET should make something else like it.

If they were a clear majority, what’s the reason that Anet hasn’t made that or anything like it?

Astralporing.1957:

chemiclord.3978:

31-40

Ya know, I kinda like how the Personal Story is clumped together.

Wait for the last two chapters. Clumping of the story itself is okay, it’s the changes to the last parts that are highly questionable.

Which Anet acknowledged and is working to fix.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

phys.7689:

Beldin.5498:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

Beldin.5498:

ShadowDragoonFTW.3418:

If you’re complaining about this content, which is widely considered the end-game content for pretty much every other MMO out there, then what content do you expect to get when you’re asking for an endgame here?

Running Underworld 2920 times in 8 years .. that is fun endgame for the GW1 players i always have the feeling.

Repeating stuff is always boring .. as long as it is not Underworld.

This means nothing to me, because I don’t know what Underworld is, and I’m sure a lot of other users also don’t know. Be descriptive, man. :-|

No problem .. i also don’t know what Underworld is .. but reading the forums and
especially comments from all those GW1 fans then there were maybe 3 zones
called Underworld, The Deep and Ulgoz (or something like that) that were soooo
amazing that they played them endloss for 8 years .. and while everything else
gets boring after doing it 5 times, those zones were sooo amazing that they will
not be boring even if you continue playing them until 2250 at least

Underworld was one of the main dungeons in the game, but it was a dungeon designed like a small zone, with like 8 quests in it. It was relatively fairly difficult (compared to the standard content in the game)
you can think of it like dungeons are in this game, except larger, with more paths all at once.
People didnt always go in with the intent to play the whole zone, they would sometimes just do a couple areas.

Full party death kicked you out of the instance.
you could get tired of it, but it was fairly challenging to complete, and it would take many runs before you saw/did everything for most people. Different order events made the run a bit different depending who you played with.
it had good random drops from enemies, so people were happy to even play the parts of it they liked, as opposed to the whole thing.

game design wise, it was a pretty good game mode.

they also added new dungeons, so people who played it for 6-8 years actually wanted to play it for that time.

I was thinking about this.

Do you think the UW design was so good because of the quests/map textures and overall open-ended nature of the content?

Looking back and thinking about it, I think the reason why UW was so fun was that:

a. It was a challenge that you could LOSE.
b. There were penalties for dying.
c. Both a. and b. meant that team cooperation was paramount.
d. The rewards were rewarding if your party played well, you lost money if your party played poorly (due to the entrance fee and being kicked out for a full wipe.)

There is not a single dungeon in game that meets ANY of those criteria, EXCEPT maybe a few particular fractals or a few Arah paths.

Any composition can complete nearly any path. You can’t LOSE. Your team may rage quit if it’s terribad, but you can’t actually lose if you keep trying.

There are no penalties for dying. None.

Teams don’t NEED to plan. Sure the speedrunners will might stack, some pugs may decide which warrior is taking which banner, but overall it’s enter dungeon and YOLO mode everything. Bearbow rangers, flamethrower engis, staff guardians, full necro party? Who cares, the content is so easy that you hardly have to plan. Maybe put some walls down here and there for reflects… but really… there’s just no complexity.

Finally, the last point. Rewards. There seems to be two categories of rewards in this game. The guaranteed reward and the so-RNG-gated-that-you’ll-never-see-it-drop reward. Why not something in between? Why not content that is more rewarding the better your team performs?

It was good for a percentage of the playerbase. I’m relatively sure most people that played Guild Wars 1 never even attempted the Underworld and that’s the problem.

The people who liked it and swear by it, in my opinion are nowhere close to any kind of majority. Which might be why Anet didn’t make something else like that.

Andred.1087:

Vayne.8563:

Well no, Nerelith is right. I’m a relic. I work on different rules than the current generation. The world evolves. I just didn’t evolve with it.

That’s not exactly what I would call “being considerate and mature.” More like the current generation by and large hasn’t gotten there yet.

I think we should let this drop…honestly I’m sorry I said anything. I think we call all be a bit more forgiving on this forum.

Serophous.9085:

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Bel Geode.8129:

Nerelith.7360:

Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.

Off the top of My head, I remember…

1. Player housing
2. combat pets
3. speed boost mounts
4. mounts acquired through gameplay
5. Open world PvP

Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?

Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.

I played all of the AA beta tests. I kept coming back to Guild Wars 2 every night. Why?

Despite AA having all those things, the whole thing just did not “feel” the same to me.

Also… labor points. What kind of sadistic so and so comes up with that artificial restriction. If GW2 ever had something similar, I can honestly say i would be done.

The only thing on the list above that would make me smile for GW2 would be if player housing was implemented. The others I can gladly live without.

AA is Not for you. That is fine. Not every game has to be for every player. Not every game can please or satisfy every gamer.

To be honest, if AA becomes a Niche game with a dedicated following where the players that Play Know exactly what they are gonna get, have no delusions what the game is, and support it, I’ll be content.

See, this is how I feel about Guild Wars 2. Exactly how I feel.

I don’t care if this game has millions of players. Why? Because I don’t think millions of players share my play style.

I like the game as it is, so I’m happy to talk up Guild Wars 2. The one thing I won’t do, however, is talk up Guild Wars 2 on the Archeage forums.

And yet there are players that do Just that. Come to the Archeage forums. You will find that a LOT more players will talk up Gw2 over there, than players that talk up Archeage over here.

Funny how that works, but hey, I accept it’s part of " new MMO Launch" fever. Players that go there to play will post On the Archeage forums.." hey..Gw2 does THIS better." and Those of us that like Archeage will do it here,..although from what I have seen…a LOT more Politely.

This is what happens when a New MMO is launched… Everyone discusses it everywhere.

If you logged On WoW’s forums 9/10 chances are on page 1 you will fin a few threads labled." what do you think of Archeage?"

Sorry it bothers you, but..it’s part of our gamer culture.

I sorta interrupted that as “everyone else does it, so that makes it okay!”

Well no, Nerelith is right. I’m a relic. I work on different rules than the current generation. The world evolves. I just didn’t evolve with it.

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Bel Geode.8129:

Nerelith.7360:

Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.

Off the top of My head, I remember…

1. Player housing
2. combat pets
3. speed boost mounts
4. mounts acquired through gameplay
5. Open world PvP

Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?

Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.

I played all of the AA beta tests. I kept coming back to Guild Wars 2 every night. Why?

Despite AA having all those things, the whole thing just did not “feel” the same to me.

Also… labor points. What kind of sadistic so and so comes up with that artificial restriction. If GW2 ever had something similar, I can honestly say i would be done.

The only thing on the list above that would make me smile for GW2 would be if player housing was implemented. The others I can gladly live without.

AA is Not for you. That is fine. Not every game has to be for every player. Not every game can please or satisfy every gamer.

To be honest, if AA becomes a Niche game with a dedicated following where the players that Play Know exactly what they are gonna get, have no delusions what the game is, and support it, I’ll be content.

See, this is how I feel about Guild Wars 2. Exactly how I feel.

I don’t care if this game has millions of players. Why? Because I don’t think millions of players share my play style.

I like the game as it is, so I’m happy to talk up Guild Wars 2. The one thing I won’t do, however, is talk up Guild Wars 2 on the Archeage forums.

And yet there are players that do Just that. Come to the Archeage forums. You will find that a LOT more players will talk up Gw2 over there, than players that talk up Archeage over here.

Funny how that works, but hey, I accept it’s part of " new MMO Launch" fever. Players that go there to play will post On the Archeage forums.." hey..Gw2 does THIS better." and Those of us that like Archeage will do it here,..although from what I have seen…a LOT more Politely.

This is what happens when a New MMO is launched… Everyone discusses it everywhere.

If you logged On WoW’s forums 9/10 chances are on page 1 you will fin a few threads labled." what do you think of Archeage?"

Sorry it bothers you, but..it’s part of our gamer culture.

I don’t think it’s right that people do that either. I don’t go into one person’s store and tell people about another store. I wouldn’t do it in real life, so I don’t do it online.

Everyone has to choose their own behavior. I choose not to do it. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t. It just means I won’t.

Nerelith.7360:

Bel Geode.8129:

Nerelith.7360:

Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.

Off the top of My head, I remember…

1. Player housing
2. combat pets
3. speed boost mounts
4. mounts acquired through gameplay
5. Open world PvP

Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?

Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.

I played all of the AA beta tests. I kept coming back to Guild Wars 2 every night. Why?

Despite AA having all those things, the whole thing just did not “feel” the same to me.

Also… labor points. What kind of sadistic so and so comes up with that artificial restriction. If GW2 ever had something similar, I can honestly say i would be done.

The only thing on the list above that would make me smile for GW2 would be if player housing was implemented. The others I can gladly live without.

AA is Not for you. That is fine. Not every game has to be for every player. Not every game can please or satisfy every gamer.

To be honest, if AA becomes a Niche game with a dedicated following where the players that Play Know exactly what they are gonna get, have no delusions what the game is, and support it, I’ll be content.

See, this is how I feel about Guild Wars 2. Exactly how I feel.

I don’t care if this game has millions of players. Why? Because I don’t think millions of players share my play style.

I like the game as it is, so I’m happy to talk up Guild Wars 2. The one thing I won’t do, however, is talk up Guild Wars 2 on the Archeage forums.

They’re still separate achievements. I had to go to the wiki to see what was in each season. I made a list of what I was missing from each season.

It’s an expensive proposition though to get minis, particularly now. Here’s the link to the wiki mini page:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mini

Mizenhauer.6713:

Frankly raids would be better without the treadmill. I really loved wow and the raids, but never liked how the gear upgrades made prior raids pointless, save for small group fun. That was alleviated somewhat by their introduction of a wardrobe equivalent, breathing some life and purpose into those dusty raids. But it was still trivialized by virtue of stat increases. That can only happen to a certain extent here (assuming ascended is the end, but I wouldn’t be surprised if jewel crafters are eventually given the task of crafting infusions as a tiny bit of vertical progression). Here, a raid couldn’t die. It would, at worst, become something g tk be blown through, like the dungeons here. I’m very curious about these ai changes that have been worked on. Learning the boss dance is fun, but it would be interesting if the bosses were able to respond accordingly.

I think a lot of people raided because of the treadmill though. WIthout that loot motivation I don’t think most people would do it.

Take a dungeon like TA Aetherblade path. Reward isn’t enough, people don’t do it. That’s how raiding draws in so many people. It’s the only way to get what you want.

I know a lot of people who did raiding to get stuff but didn’t enjoy it.

Because it wasn’t possible to completely exploit that fight…oh wait. lol

Meglobob.8620:

Vayne.8563:

I agree. It’s a kitten ed if you do and kitten ed if you don’t type thing.

Last time people complained because they had no chance if they were locked in a tier where they were last place.

There really isn’t a good way to do this.

Actually, there is….

Its called handicapping. Whenever you want a competition to be competitive with varying skill levels (in WvW case coverage, 1 server has more players or more skilled players or more organised players) you introduce some kind of handicapping system. This would not be terribly hard to do in WvW and would be best implemented vis the points system based on perhaps a average of the previous 4-6 weeks scoring for that server.

However, I understand completely why Anet will never do this. Its because the only reason anyone would transfer server atm is to change WvW servers, as there is no other real reason to transfer. Obviously it costs gems to transfer and a lot of it goes on especially revolving around guilds being lured from world to world for competitive events. Anet would lose that income with a handicapping system so never going to do it.

Finally, I personally disagree this Fall tournament has been a failure, I am on Seafarer’s Rest (EU) and we had some great/awesome battles vs Desolution in week 1. Also, the rewards system is far better this time around, just need more choice of rewards there, that’s all.

I really like the idea of handicapping actually. Not sure how easy or hard it would be to compensate fairly, without giving the lower team too much advantage.

Just imagine how much anger there’d be on the better team’s side if the handicapping was so strong that they couldn’t win.

This would be something very hard to test and implement, but it would be great if it could be done right.

I just don’t think it would be that easy to do right.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

My position is complex. Having to retype the same stuff in every thread gets tiring. I didn’t really feel it needed to be repeated here, I just gave the amount of information I felt was needed. I’m sure wouldn’t enjoy anyone telling you how to post, so I’d appreciate it if you not tell me how to post.

If clarification is required, people can always ask for it.

There wasn’t a hint anywhere that your post was not to be taken at face value. If your posts can’t convey proper meaning in the context that they’re found in, they’re worthless.

The topic is is this really the reward for that level. That topic was answered quite well by what I said. The rest of this conversation is actually a different topic.

When a person sees seven skill points and a booster and a salvage kit, they don’t comment OMFG, I can’t believe I got a salvage kit, because they also got a booster.

When I bought a computer in the old days and the salesman threw in a box of discs, I didn’t say, what, only a box of discs…why? Because I was getting a computer. I sincerely doubt the focus of the OP will be the focus of most players and that’s how I answered.

If I new were were going to have a detailed conversation about skill points, I’d certainly have clarified more. We’re now definitely off topic and I won’t be responding to another post on this. If you have a problem with something I posted, and it breaks forum rules, feel free to report it.

Manasa Devi.7958:

For people who are practically minded and not inclined to drool ecstatically over the magnitude of the numbers that appear in levelup reward windows, the reward isn’t the skill points, but the things we can unlock with them. This new system will often delay those true rewards.

The only way this new system can feel more rewarding is if you just like big numbers because they’re, you know, big! Woohoo! Big numbers! Hell yeah!

First time players will certainly not feel this way because first time players will be not expecting to get a skill point every level.

Long term players should have at least some skill point scrolls. I’m not really seeing this as a big issue. If you depend as a long time player only on the skill points you’ve earned, I’d be pretty surprised. Anyway, between skill points earned and skill point challenges, there’s enough skill points to get the skills you want pretty much when you need them.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

PrinceWarhero.4256:

Vayne.8563:

Seven skill points, a booster and a salvage kit? Sounds like a decent reward to me.

previously we used to get 1 skill point per level. now its 7 skill point given at end of every 7th level !!! lame

Actually it’s not lame. It’s better. Because by the time you get to higher levels, 1 skill point does absolutely nothing. You probably all the one point skills you need long before that. When this game was designed skill point scrolls didn’t exist either.

There’s nothing lame about the decision.

So your position is that absolutely no one ever has any use for a number of skillpoints smaller than 7, and that’s why it’s better to just give out 7 at a time?

Not my position at all. My position as quoted in another thread is that getting the same reward every single level predictably is more boring than getting different stuff at every level. When you got a skill point every level, it wasn’t special. It was something you got every level 75 times in a row. It’s very hard to look at a single skill point at level 63 and go YES! a skill point.

Even though it’s exactly the same, because you don’t get it every level it’s far more exciting to see seven skill points. This is basic, human psychology.

To people playing the game, it makes less difference than people starting new probably but it still makes a different for me. I see the new rewards and I get a bit of a boost from them. I never got that from the old rewards.

If that’s not your position, perhaps you shouldn’t be stating things that pretty much imply that it is your position.

My position is complex. Having to retype the same stuff in every thread gets tiring. I didn’t really feel it needed to be repeated here, I just gave the amount of information I felt was needed. I’m sure wouldn’t enjoy anyone telling you how to post, so I’d appreciate it if you not tell me how to post.

If clarification is required, people can always ask for it.

Manasa Devi.7958:

Vayne.8563:

PrinceWarhero.4256:

Vayne.8563:

Seven skill points, a booster and a salvage kit? Sounds like a decent reward to me.

previously we used to get 1 skill point per level. now its 7 skill point given at end of every 7th level !!! lame

Actually it’s not lame. It’s better. Because by the time you get to higher levels, 1 skill point does absolutely nothing. You probably all the one point skills you need long before that. When this game was designed skill point scrolls didn’t exist either.

There’s nothing lame about the decision.

So your position is that absolutely no one ever has any use for a number of skillpoints smaller than 7, and that’s why it’s better to just give out 7 at a time?

Not my position at all. My position as quoted in another thread is that getting the same reward every single level predictably is more boring than getting different stuff at every level. When you got a skill point every level, it wasn’t special. It was something you got every level 75 times in a row. It’s very hard to look at a single skill point at level 63 and go YES! a skill point.

Even though it’s exactly the same, because you don’t get it every level it’s far more exciting to see seven skill points. This is basic, human psychology.

To people playing the game, it makes less difference than people starting new probably but it still makes a different for me. I see the new rewards and I get a bit of a boost from them. I never got that from the old rewards.

Stiofan.6720:

Well maybe gw2 won’t be completely killed off by other mmo’s but I think its population will certainly continue to decrease if arenanet doesn’t change their current direction.

Vayne are you happy with how guild wars 2 is turning out?

You are on the forums everyday you see alot of complaints being made, Im guessing the amount of complaints is increasing, Do you really think if arenanet ignore all these compliments everything will be all rosy and guild wars 2 will have a long prosperous future?

The games you listed are all ok games, I would rate them in the same league as gw2, I’ve tried them all except TSW, They all have ok business models (except aoc) and are all still quite popular, AoC might not have a great future because of the huge restrictions placed on f2p players, Heard TSW is still going strong, Of all the titles you listed (mostly fp2 games) I think most people excepted a bit more from guild wars 2.

Am I happy with the current direction of Guild Wars 2. Yes and no.

I am happy with certain parts of the current direction of Guild Wars 2. But then, I like the concept of the Living World. I’m not particularly into dungeons, though I’ve run all of them. I’m not particularly into PvP though I have PvPed. I’m not particularly into WvW, though I WvW sometimes. I make alts, I explore the world, I do stories, I craft, and now I collect.

There are two types of MMO players it seems to me (and it’s not just MMO players, this goes all the way back to pen and paper RPGers). Some people focused on the mechanics and some people focused on the actual playing of a role, something more akin to improv than just looking at numbers on a piece of paper. My group of players was in the latter group. Both groups have tons of people. I don’t know if it was 50/50. And yes, of course we’re all in both camps to some degree. it’s a matter of focus.

There are people who say no group has a role in this game because all professions can basically do the same thing. There are people like me who play a necromancer and an engineer and a mesmer, and feel completely different playing them because of the flavor. I play those characters differently. Even more, I play different characters of the same profession differently. I’m definitely not alone in this.

Then there are people who maximize their stats, they don’t really care much about anything except that extra percentage point of damage. Those are the people who must have zerkers in their party for dungeons, period, end of story. I don’t think they’re more numerous than my group of players.

So for people like me, Guild Wars 2 is going fine and Archeage is never really going to be a consideration. The focus is on something other than that I’m personally interested in, which is the same with pretty much every MMO. Since Wildstar’s focus is hard content and dungeons and raids, I’ll never end up playing it long term, even though I did try it.

Yes, I’m basically happy with the direction of this game and I think a boatload of people are with me on that. You see us in the forum every day too and the people who message me in game or thank me in a forum mail…you never see their posts. But they agree with much of what I say.

I’m not saying anyone is wrong for not liking this game. But I do think people are wrong for trying to change it into a game they want at the expense of the game it is. Because there are people playing this game that play it because of what it is. If it changed to what other people wanted, I might very well have to find another MMO.

People keep using the words “kill” Guild Wars 2. Most MMOs are still running. Nothing killed Age of Conan, or TSW or any of the other games that found their audience and continue on.

Nothing really killed DDO or Lotro. They’re still making money.

Nothing killed Perfect world.

And I’m going to bet that Guild Wars 2 has more of a market than all of those. For all the complaints the cash shop is less greedy than most games, content isn’t gated behind a pay wall, and the game is still fun for a lot of people.

Is anyone here really arguing that AoC is more interesting than Guild Wars 2 is to more people?

Stop using words like kill when what you only really mean is “have an affect on”. Every game released is going to have an affect on other games.

But by percentage, very few of these games die. Star Wars Galaxies, City of Heroes, Warhammer Online are the main ones I can think of. Games really aren’t that easy to kill.

Guild Wars 2 is still one of the most successful MMOs of recent years, even with all the bellyaching on the forums. I don’t understand why anyone would think any new game that’s not completely and totally amazing is going to do serious damage to it.

And what happens when Anet does release some kind of big content pack/expansion?

It’ll have new life just like every one of its competitors that does the same thing.

hero mcb.8165:

Vayne.8563:

There’s a corridor in CM. At the end of the corridor, there are three bandits. One of them is a saboteur. Two of them are snipers that do more damage to moving characters. On the side are open doors that have flame turrets. A lot of new groups wipe in that corridor.

I used a combination of feedback, blink and portal to get less experienced guildies past that corridor without fighting at all.

In the boulder section of CoF path 1, there are rolling rocks you have to time. Mesmers often use blink to get past them and then use portal to get the rest of the party past.

It’s a situational skill that’s not good in every situation. But there are places in the game where it is useful.

or you could just run CM with a theif like normal ppl and dont have to run :P

I run CM with my guild and if there’s a thief, great, but I don’t always go and say we need a thief or we’re not going. Because I can handle this on my mesmer, I don’t need a thief. And therefore the four people playing with me can bring any profession they want.

I’d call that a win for everyone.

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.

Off the top of My head, I remember…

1. Player housing
2. combat pets
3. speed boost mounts
4. mounts acquired through gameplay
5. Open world PvP

Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?

Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.

Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.

If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.

Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.

If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.

Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree with Phys. AA won’t kill Gw2, but it will bleed players.

As for casual players On AA, I’d doing just fine.

Vayne, I agree AA has problems, I am not going over there with rose colored glasses. But it IS filling a Niche, that has been neglected since I left EverQuest when everyone went to play WoW.

I really hoped Gw2 would be the game, but unfortunately after 2 years I need to say it’s Not.

And from what little I have experienced, AA is. And that includes getting ganked by a Boat load of level 25’s in the high seas. I hate PvP… I Just cannot abide it, but… It works in AA, and makes even a simple task a knuckle – biter. Something gw2 never did.

AA is filling a niche. But it’ll never be more than just a niche.

For each person who leaves for AA, someone is coming back from ESO or Wildstar. That’s the nature of the beast. We have a revolving player base. Anet knew it when they made the game.

I agree with you, let’s agree to disagree, because right now, all you are doing is speculating.

I agree. That’s all I’m doing. That’s all we’re all doing. There are several things no one knows, and because of that, all we can do is speculate.

1. How many people play Guild War 2?
2. Is there some big reveal Anet has up its sleeve?
3. Is the bulk of the playerbase as disatisfied as the forums make it sound?

Everything is speculation, down to how well AA will do. But I keep seeing these threads every single time a game comes out, and every single time so far, nothing has really come of it.

The real test is simply how many profit Anet makes from Guild Wars 2 and is it enough to sustain the game. So far it is.

That’s not speculation.

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

Nerelith.7360:

Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.

Off the top of My head, I remember…

1. Player housing
2. combat pets
3. speed boost mounts
4. mounts acquired through gameplay
5. Open world PvP

Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?

Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.

Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.

If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.

Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.

If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.

Let’s agree to disagree. But I do agree with Phys. AA won’t kill Gw2, but it will bleed players.

As for casual players On AA, I’d doing just fine.

Vayne, I agree AA has problems, I am not going over there with rose colored glasses. But it IS filling a Niche, that has been neglected since I left EverQuest when everyone went to play WoW.

I really hoped Gw2 would be the game, but unfortunately after 2 years I need to say it’s Not.

And from what little I have experienced, AA is. And that includes getting ganked by a Boat load of level 25’s in the high seas. I hate PvP… I Just cannot abide it, but… It works in AA, and makes even a simple task a knuckle – biter. Something gw2 never did.

AA is filling a niche. But it’ll never be more than just a niche.

For each person who leaves for AA, someone is coming back from ESO or Wildstar. That’s the nature of the beast. We have a revolving player base. Anet knew it when they made the game.

PrinceWarhero.4256:

Vayne.8563:

Seven skill points, a booster and a salvage kit? Sounds like a decent reward to me.

previously we used to get 1 skill point per level. now its 7 skill point given at end of every 7th level !!! lame

Actually it’s not lame. It’s better. Because by the time you get to higher levels, 1 skill point does absolutely nothing. You probably all the one point skills you need long before that. When this game was designed skill point scrolls didn’t exist either.

There’s nothing lame about the decision.

Nerelith.7360:

Just an addendum to the above. There are many Players here on Gw2, that have been asking for some things, since the beginning of gw2, that for them… is what a “casual” MMO should Include.

Off the top of My head, I remember…

1. Player housing
2. combat pets
3. speed boost mounts
4. mounts acquired through gameplay
5. Open world PvP

Go through your chek list. AA has them. Now will all of those players leave for AA?

Maybe …maybe Not. But.. Anet would be foolish to gamble that they will not,.. and downright incompetent not to worry about it.

Anet made a game not for those people. Do you really think Anet couldnt’ have put mounts in this game. It’s not the game they wanted to make. Do you really think that Anet wants a game with open world PvP. That’s not the game they wanted to make. They haven’t even added dueling for a reason.

If everyone who wants that stuff leaves today, this game will end up growing over time, since those players aren’t really compatible with the target audience for this game.

Yes this game has a target audience. Anet has a focus. That focus is the casual gamer. Good luck to a casual gamer in AA.

If you really think this is an issue of this game, there isn’t anything further to discuss.

Nerelith.7360:

Vayne.8563:

You’re right. AA doesn’t mollycoddle you. It lets you sit in queues for 7 hours,

launch week, all of them have issues. Ever Gw2 had issues On launch. They are working on the situation correctly, they realize that the merely curious won’t stay and will be gone in a few weeks, so adding a Lot of servers is the wring way to go.

brings out packs that make the founders packs relatively obsolete,

This isn’t true. Founder’s pack included alpha server access, all closed beta access guarenteed, up to 3 months of patron status, and a BUNCH of credits you can spend anyway you wish.

The starter has Trion spending those credits for you. I’ll take Founders any day, and twice on sunday. Obsolete? Just a Bunch of whiners whining cause..whiners gotta whine.

tells you it’s a free game, but you pretty much have to subscribe to play it,

marketing. it’s a free2try unlimited duration… stripped down version of the full pay2play AA game. Complaining cause things are not available to free2play, that are granted to subscribers is Like complaining that .. some software has a Premium only for subscribers and a " Lite" for trial users.

and in 3 months, when the free players realize they can’t really play for free it’ll be owned by a few big guilds who control everything.

Pure speculation, so I won’t discuss this at all since it’s launch week

It’s a PvP game without a PvE server. I’m sure it’s going to be very successful.

It is a PvP game at it’s core, it cannot have a PvE server, Not every MMO has to have a PvE server. Any PvE player that comes to AA downloaded a game that may not be for them. Just like Gw2 is Not for players that want mounts.

Have you looked at the forums, they’re far worse than these forums at the worst and that’s on launch day. AA will do okay but it’ll be a niche game, for people who like a very specific experience. My guess is it’ll be pay to win before long.

Forum whiners. Nothing wrong with a Niche game, not every game has to appeal to everyone. And… whether it goes P2win,…Pure speculation..see above.

I really do hope Anet is working on an expansion because if it’s not, there’s going to be issues down the line.

I agree. But none has been announced.

Right now, however, Anet has little to worry about due to Archeage.

There was a time when Players that played EverQuest said the same thing about anew game called “World of Warcraft”

" SoE has little to worry about World of Warcraft, it’s EQ Lite… dumbed down, and stripped down."

Any developer that doesn’t " worry" about it’s competition, should not be running an MMO.

AA and Gw2 are competing for the same food supply. MMO players.

Know what we call a species that refuses to " worry" about a predator that eats the same thing it does?

Extinct.

It IS a different market. Anet knows which side their bread is buttered on. They don’t push the dungeon team. They push achievements and collections. Why? Because my crowd isn’t likely to EVER go to Archeage even if it was truly free…and it’s not. Labor points indeed. If the company is this greedy at launch, just imagine how much fun it’ll be when the launch crowd fades..and it will. It always does.

It’s a misnomer to say that MMO players are the same supply. Any more than people who like sports are all going to like baseball. There’s casual people, hard core people, people who want sand box, people who want theme park. Traditionally, theme park MMORPGs have had more players than sandbox. I believe that trend will continue.

This game had a lot of problems at launch…but at launch these forums didn’t look those those forums.

Nerelith.7360:

Im Mudbone.1437:

Jski.6180:

If GW2 is not working then why has it out lasted 2 major mmorpg that play a lot like it? GW1 at the end of the day was not a true mmorpg it was an online game with co-op GW2 is a full open world mmorpg there are just truth to dealing with that type of game vs just the simple “also has online play” type of game.

What 2 major MMO’s? And GW1 is still the #1 game that’s 10X better than GW2 even if it’s NOT an MMO.

I was hoping that Gw2 would have expansions. I know Living Story is what the devs are Jonesin’ about. They seem to forget this may be their project but ultimately it’s the player’s game. If the players aren’t pleased No matter how happy you are with it…. meh…

So… since No expansion seems forthcoming, the Money I wanted to give Anet, I gave to Trion.

Anyway. I know How you feel. I have 2 small gardens with the wife and she has 2 of her own…we each have the plans for a Big scarecrow, just working on getting the same for 2 alts.

here is the thing..people will talk about the features of games. or the " growing pains" etc.. the whole." bad launch" vs" what do you expect from an MMO launch anyway?" arguments In AA.

The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

I rather wait on queue, for an hour to play AA. than to just log in here. Me and the wife were trying to row across the ocean… to get our trade pack across. We had to avoid Jelly fish and sharks that were level 50, we were 15. And avoid the rival faction… that if they saw us would eat us for breakfast….

Know what?
We failed to get across. We were killed by a clipper full of Harani. But. we made friends and got Invited Into a guild on the west coast.

THAT even dieing, Losing XP on death, getting armor damaged. Losing my rowboat..and our trade packs….

is better and More fun than Gw2 is today.

That is My opinion anyway. Degustibus et coloris non disputandum est.

Edit :

Best way that AA beats gw2….

AA doesn’t Mollycoddle you.

You’re right. AA doesn’t mollycoddle you. It lets you sit in queues for 7 hours, brings out packs that make the founders packs relatively obsolete, tells you it’s a free game, but you pretty much have to subscribe to play it, and in 3 months, when the free players realize they can’t really play for free it’ll be owned by a few big guilds who control everything.

It’s a PvP game without a PvE server. I’m sure it’s going to be very successful.

Have you looked at the forums, they’re far worse than these forums at the worst and that’s on launch day. AA will do okay but it’ll be a niche game, for people who like a very specific experience. My guess is it’ll be pay to win before long.

I really do hope Anet is working on an expansion because if it’s not, there’s going to be issues down the line.

Right now, however, Anet has little to worry about due to Archeage.

Seven skill points, a booster and a salvage kit? Sounds like a decent reward to me.

Nope. EotM counts as WvW.

And doing five events qualfies you for a reward. If your server came in first, then you’re qualified for that reward.

I agree. It’s a kitten ed if you do and kitten ed if you don’t type thing.

Last time people complained because they had no chance if they were locked in a tier where they were last place.

There really isn’t a good way to do this.

Lissaere.7096:

Vayne.8563:

Lissaere.7096:

Vayne.8563:

Yet the game listed achievements for Fractals for the longest time under the category dungeon. So you should listen to the game. The game is telling you Fractals are a dungeon. Or it was. Not in game right not to check if it’s still true. But it’s been true before the recent patch for the longest time.

Currently it’s listed under general so not true anymore.

Doesn’t work that way. They made it, and listed it as a dungeon and sub categories got taken off in the reorganization.

That means you’re saying it was a dungeon a month ago, but isn’t a dungeon now. That doesn’t wash. Clearly Anet considers it a dungeon, but a different type of dungeon than the original dungeons.

Hey I just used the phrasing that you used in the last two sentences. (Made them bold). However I will concede to the subcategory point cause it is after all quite logical that Category: Dungeon Subcategory: Fractals are not the the same as Category: Dungeon Subcategory: Tyria. So I guess we are arguing subcategories when arguing if fractals are dungeons now?

Dungeons in most games are just challenging, instanced, multiplayer PvE content, with less people than raids.

That’s always been my definition anyway. But there’s definitely differences between how dungeons are presented in this game and how fractals are presented.

On the other hand, Aetherblade Retreat and Molten Facility were both considered dungeons, and now they’re in Fractals.

I think we should just call them something else entirely. Like IHTOWs (instances harder than the open world).

Think it will catch on?

Lissaere.7096:

Vayne.8563:

Yet the game listed achievements for Fractals for the longest time under the category dungeon. So you should listen to the game. The game is telling you Fractals are a dungeon. Or it was. Not in game right not to check if it’s still true. But it’s been true before the recent patch for the longest time.

Currently it’s listed under general so not true anymore.

Doesn’t work that way. They made it, and listed it as a dungeon and sub categories got taken off in the reorganization.

That means you’re saying it was a dungeon a month ago, but isn’t a dungeon now. That doesn’t wash. Clearly Anet considers it a dungeon, but a different type of dungeon than the original dungeons.

Lissaere.7096:

Zodiaci.3218:

Fractals, (Say what you wish, I don’t care. They are dungeons, it’s really not hard.)

So first a bit off topic but did you remove your first post or was it moderated? Start of the thread looks a bit weird right now.

Anyhow, about the part I quoted: (part of) the game disagrees with you. If fractals were truly meant to be a dungeon there would be no reason for a fractal or a fractal run to not count towards Monthly Dungeon Participation or Daily Dungeon Runner (it does neither the last time I tried). If it starts doing this or have started doing this then I will agree that fractals are dungeons but until that happens, if that happens, I will go by what the game tells me.

Yet the game listed achievements for Fractals for the longest time under the category dungeon. So you should listen to the game. The game is telling you Fractals are a dungeon. Or it was. Not in game right not to check if it’s still true. But it’s been true before the recent patch for the longest time.