Guild Wars 2

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

The gating complaints are mostly complaints because people don’t know you can do most of what you could do before at level 2.

Oh, you can still do most of what you could do before at level 2? You mean, like, Skill Challenge? Personal Story? That kind of stuff? Is that the stuff you can still do at level 2? Can you still unlock all of your weapon skills at level 2?

Most of the stuff that people were complaining about. Now, there are a few things where the bar was moved like weapon swap and elite skill, but Anet tells us that the time it takes to get those things through actual play has remained the same. I don’t find, considering how fast the leveling goes, that I’m unlocking things any slower.

I know the people who only look at level numbers, instead of time spent getting to something, might think this is a terrible change. But you know, I like going through the first 15 levels quite fast and having most of what I had unlocked unlocked.

There are differences, but not as many as people make out, and adjustments have yet to be made.

Look everyone, a new system and it needs adjustment. Far different than saying this is the worst change ever and can’t work.

People who say that are going to lose because testing is more important right now than the opinion of people on the forums.

Furyan.9578:

Vayne.8563:

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

The thing I find fraudulent about that is we were all new players once. I don’t know anyone out of all the players I know who had difficulties with how the systems worked before this patch. After the patch is a different story, so saying its to help new players is a self-defeating standpoint.

I have my kids who are now 11 and 13 (who were 9 and 11 at the time of release) who could pick up the game fine before the patch who are now wonder what’s wrong with the “new players” this patch is aimed towards. From my point of view if a 9 and an 11 year old could pick up the game and play fine with little to no gaming experience but something like this has to come out… somethings wrong somewhere.

But I do know people who tried the game and just “couldn’t get into it”. You know, you keep saying too hard, too hard.

Colin said only some of the changes were made to ease the difficulty. Many of them were made to change the pacing as well. Give people more rewards more often.

Naturally if you liked the game already, you’d be annoyed that they’re changing it because you liked it. But do we know how many people logged in on free beta weekends but didn’t buy the game after? We don’t. Anet does.

They’re trying to make an experience that captures more new players that weren’t signing on. Apparently they’ve tested this and this keeps people playing more and longer.

If you really think this is bull, let me give you a question to ponder. If it was fine and they didn’t have those tests, what possible reason could they have to do the work to completely rewrite the beginning of the game? It’s not going to make them gem store sales. Its’ not going to help existing players asking for more content. There’s no reason for it I can think of, unless they actually did the tests they said.

Azure Prower.8701:

Haven’t been actively playing for 6 months or more and come back to find things are getting worse. I’ve put it down to we’re not the target audience.

Pretty much this. Anet has a target audience and it’s not going to be everyone. Obviously there are people who do like the changes being made, at least many of them and they’re happily going about their business collecting new stuff, making new backpacks, playing with the new crafting interface, and yes, still leveling alts.

There are definitely people who are disenfranchised with the current direction of the game, and rightly so for their play style.

But I don’t think anyone has a clear majority where they think they can force the issue to change the game. Anet knows who is playing what, and that’s logically going to get the most attention.

Chuo.4238:

RiverSong.5067:

Making alts is a whole playstyle. Calling them “pointless and annoying” is self centered and false.

Many players feel the need to shop around before settling on a main. It has been referred to as altities. Some people find what they like faster than others and many players like to explore other options after they cap max level.

I am sorry to say if you were trolling i fell for it 100%.

Not trolling at all. Am taking issue with how ANet minimize alts.

Colin said they’re working on making the alt experience better and can’t talk about it yet. I assume that it was in the works before the patch.

Sokia.3710:

Vayne.8563:

The Chinese launch didn’t do as well as the US launch, so that claim holds little water. The game as more popular in the US than it has shown to be in China so far.

Then, why in the kitten did they make this version more like China’s?

Because they really did run tests with new players and this kept new players playing longer and staying with the game longer. This is what Colin said directly. A year of testing on new players.

Ever notice how this game has no free demo? Hardly ever runs free weekend? Ever wonder why? Could it possibly be because free weekends weren’t working for them. A lot of work and little payback. So they spent a year testing out what would keep players playing longer. They came up with this.

The gating complaints are mostly complaints because people don’t know you can do most of what you could do before at level 2. The elite skill unlock, according to Anet says that it unlocks at roughly the same number of hours played.

This is a hot topic because people are keeping it alive and holding onto rage, not because it’s so badly done.

It is a bit inconvenient, but that’s it. A bit. And for that bit, if they can have a free demo weekend and get more new players into the game, I’m all for it.

The Chinese launch didn’t do as well as the US launch, so that claim holds little water. The game as more popular in the US than it has shown to be in China so far.

The manifesto is a four year old video, and yeah, guess what, things do change in an MMO.

However, a lot of people have misintepreted parts of the manifesto and part of that misinterpretation is due to the four years that have passed.

At the time, Anet clarified and built on what was in the manifesto quite a bit. That’s why linking a four year video out of context is probably just a bit disingenuous.

Things on reddit have basically settled down to calm. There are about 20 people on this forum who absolutely can’t stand the new build and keep riling people up, but I don’t think the bulk of the playerbase is that stressed by it.

It’s called a storm in a teacup.

2 possibilities. Either it’s bugged, which is possible, or it’s part of a larger chain and the last part of that chain. Not all event chains are up at all times. I can’t say because I don’t know, but you can check the wiki.

Even then the info might not be right because many changes were made to starting areas recently.

Fernling.1729:

I think it’s fine to include 5 levels lower/higher when leveling, but to include level 75 gear when you’re level 80 is pretty pointless. Luckily this is just a little shortcut that doesn’t have to be used.

A lot of people at level 80 by rares to forge, or for salvage even. I think it’s fine. You can always put in 80 if you want.

Hamfast.8719:

Perhaps only displayed when actually in WvW? Context and all that, y’know. Feels like an unsolicited sales call during dinner.

Actually, no, only displaying an event that not everyone knows about only in the place is just bad for the game. In fact, we’ve seen almost no complaints about this at all, so probably very few people are affected. We’re all used to seeing living story or events appear on the upper right corner of our screen…or should be anyway.

If you don’t care about WvW it really doesn’t matter at all. If you do care, that’s a harder choice. You’d have to see which servers are doing better and then pick the one that has the most Aussies.

Lots of Aussies on Tarnished Coast, but it’s full too.

It gives you items you can buy within a certain range of your level. Yes that’s 5 higher and 5 lower.

Pretty sure when holiday events are on or the living story events are on, people who don’t participate in PvP have had to look at that for 2 years. Just saying.

I do agree that being able to switch it off would be better though.

This isn’t all about hand holding though. It’s about pacing and feeling rewarded. The only people who will really be able to judge this are people who have never leveled a character the old way. Because we’re all stuck on various limitations that we supposedly didn’t have before.

So we get our weapon swap unlocked later…but Anet said it’s about the same amount of time playing. We’re looking at a level not time played and assuming we have less options. Same for the elite skill. I get to 40 as fast now as I used to get to 30, roughly anyway. If they gave it to you at 30, you’d getting it sooner.

And since this is undoubtedly about getting more players from free trials and not what veteran players think, it doesn’t really matter what we think.

It’s not that bad that it’s unplayable and for some of us it’s better. If you think it’s just me, the I’ve never had so much fun leveling post on Reddit did get about 400 upvotes.

There was a kneejerk reaction to this part of the patch (the rest of the patch got ignored because of it) and as a result, people started yelling, some before they even tested the experience. Several people have now admitted after testing it it’s not as bad as people are saying it is.

Spiderbite.8049:

Elsdragon.5109:

A lot of the white knight fanboyz I’ve seen in the forums are weak, lacklustre, and downright pitiful.

Fortunately some of us are confident enough where the opinions of us from strangers on the internet don’t cost us to lose any sleep.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

They are attempting to save on server resources. My guess is that they are out of money and can no longer afford to keep multiple maps open so they close as many as possible. This also hides the population problems.

This seriously made me laugh. Usually before a company runs out of money they lay off people and stop hiring.

They made plenty of money according to the last quarter. It almost definitely has more to do with efficiency than it does to do with money.

Etien.4601:

AngelDiscarnate.5489:

For every person here whining and complaining about all the changes and how they feel this update blows donkey honkers, there are 10 satisfied players in the game playing.
;D
Just sayin’…
Not toast.

When you finish your first character and then perhaps your second; if you stick around long enough to try and make 3rd or 4th and so on..After you become veteran player, come back here and tell me how you feel abouit this change.
I bet 100% you’ll be singing a different song.

I’m on my 27 character, I like the changes.

Valento.9852:

Vayne.8563:

TehPwnerer.7215:

Vayne.8563:

The first year had a really nice instance. I didn’t like the instance from the second year as much but it was different. A few changes to the jumping puzzle, and a few new achievements, but much of the same content.

Labyrinth still there too?

Last year it was, but no one really knows what’s going on this year.

The PvP activity was there too and the Mad King’s Jumping puzzle. It’s a lot easier now that you can’t be blocked by Charr and Norn.

Say for yourself! I still have a hard time doing that.

Well it’s easier anyway. I didn’t beat it the first year but I beat it last year.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Vayne clearly doenst know fragmentation shot of engineer. If she/he would, then she would be horrified by how lackluster that auto attack is, and how much it slow the game down, by being locked to that one skill for a long while.

My first 80 was an engie.

But if you know what to do you can still go to PvP even at level 2. You can craft too if you like. You can use a level 20 scroll. You can use tomes of knowledge.

I can’t imagine how it took you that long to get to level 6 though. Playing casually I got to level 10 in less than 30 minutes.

Sogradde.8016:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not just about being overwhelmed. It’s about pacing. It’s about being rewarded. People like to be rewarded. To older players it’s like something’s been taken away. To newer players, they don’t know what it was like before.

Anet’s tested it and they say the tests show this keeps people playing longer. I’m willing to see if it’s true.

I’m not. ANet has shown in the past that they like to take the laziest route possible. And I’m pretty sure, all they did was listen to their flawed metrics and decided to dumb everything down. Which comes handy by the way because it drags out the levelling experience and new players take a little longer to reach the state of #NoEndgame.

Also, where’s the reward for veteran players? Spoon collection?

Look, I know you’re not stupid and I see where you are coming from with your arguments but you cannot seriously look someone straight in the face and say you’re happy with the direction it is taking.

I mean, seriously, do you even play the game? I assume you do, so what do you do when you log in? Play the same dungeons you’ve been playing for almost 2 years? Or the same PvP Mode&Maps or the same WvW mode&maps? Or do you take your time to carefully examine the 20 minutes long Living Story content?
Listen to your heart buddy, this game is way past it’s former glory and it’s not getting better.

I do play the game, but I obviously play for different things than you do. I could care less about dungeons. I run them. I’ve run them all. They don’t really interest me. I think other games have done dungeons better and they don’t really interest me there either.

The problem here is that I really do like the leveling changes. I mean I like them a lot. Not to say I don’t see adjustments I think should be made, but on the whole, yes, I can look you in the eye and say I honestly like the changes.

I do a lot of different stuff. Today we started with Guild missions, three of them. Slow day for me, I barely had time to finish my daily. Did a bunch of trading post stuff.

But I’m an achievement guy. An explorer. A jumping puzzle guy. And I don’t really want a game to keep me entertained, I’m perfectly happy entertaining myself. I make my own goals, do my own thing. I did this in Guild Wars 1 as well.

I’m definitely not your typical player though, so it hardly matters what I do or like. Still there are others out there like me.

Kamui.4038:

Broom.2561:

Danikat.8537:

I disagree with a lot of the changes to starter zones and levelling but this one doesn’t bother me.

You can still buy and sell using the Black Lion Trader window and if you want to collect the items there’s a city a few feet from the traders. It’s a good idea to visit your starter city early on anyway.

Yeah about that… veterans know this. But only yesterday, when I was briefly in Caledon, we had to point a new player to where the city was. Because surprise surprise, they are now only told about that at level 10, and then only when they actually do the story arc.

Everything is so unnecessarily convoluted now. I can’t for the life of me fathom why these changes were made. The levelling experience flowed so well before… it all made sense.

It made sense to you. It actually made sense to me too. But I know people who it didn’t make sense to.

TehPwnerer.7215:

Vayne.8563:

The first year had a really nice instance. I didn’t like the instance from the second year as much but it was different. A few changes to the jumping puzzle, and a few new achievements, but much of the same content.

Labyrinth still there too?

Last year it was, but no one really knows what’s going on this year.

The PvP activity was there too and the Mad King’s Jumping puzzle. It’s a lot easier now that you can’t be blocked by Charr and Norn.

The first year had a really nice instance. I didn’t like the instance from the second year as much but it was different. A few changes to the jumping puzzle, and a few new achievements, but much of the same content.

cesmode.4257:

Colin.. No one asked for the leveling and new player experience to be changed. I can’t remember anyone complaining that it is bad. Like a broken record here, “if it aint broke don’t fix it”. You could have invested those resources on other things, like dungeons?? Or making open world PVE / DE more enjoyable and rewarding?

I seriousl’y don’t understand your decision making here. It makes no sense and is a clear example of the disconnect that you have with the playerbase. Again, no one asked for this and no one complained about it.

Personally, I’ve always said that the new player experience and leveling experience is second to none in Guild Wars 2. It is the best part of the game, because lets face it…GW2 is not known for it’s awesome level cap experience.

You need to admit that you did a wrong here… we didnt want this. Its confusing and makes no sense.

I thought you left.

He doesn’t need to admit he’s wrong if he’s not. Do you know how many people play trials that don’t stay with the game. Companies have two needs..what the players want and what they need to grow their business. They are not necessarily always the same things.

I think the new leveling experience is a better experience over all. And I’m a player. You’re right in that I didn’t ask for this, but I’m certainly enjoying it.

Valento.9852:

Spiderbite.8049:

every time i’ve logged on since the patch there has been a “fix the fix that broke the fix” download.

That’s rude. The game is almost 100% uptime and fixing stuff only requires relogging. How long has it been since you last had to wait a whole day for the ever famous “weekly maintenance”?

It’s okay. Some people are angry and reacting out of frustration. One of them is so frustrated, he took the time to message me in game, then blocked me when he didn’t like what I had to say. Shrugs.

People are venting because they’re mad. Nothing much we can do about it.

Sogradde.8016:

Vayne.8563:

Way to miss the point.

Anet isn’t talking about long time players leaving the game. That’s not what they’re talking about. They’re talking about people playing the game at start and getting bored and not continuing.

If you like the initial experience you might think everyone does or most people do. Anet’s testing shows them that’s not the case. Leaving the game long term has nothing to do with this update, but Colin said until they fix this, they can’t move forward with other things they want to do.

Not everyone who buys your game likes your game. That’s true for every single video game out there. And honestly, maybe people who are overwhelmed by one of the easiest MMOs out there aren’t exactly the target audience. The devs have to draw the line somewhere and right now they are catering to the worst players big time, which ultimately hurts veterans and enthusiasts. If this is the direction you want to be heading, fine but don’t expect no backlash when the people who actually bought the game firsthand and made it big get the short end of the stick.

It’s not just about being overwhelmed. It’s about pacing. It’s about being rewarded. People like to be rewarded. To older players it’s like something’s been taken away. To newer players, they don’t know what it was like before.

Anet’s tested it and they say the tests show this keeps people playing longer. I’m willing to see if it’s true.

Try ranger. Lots of damage right now. You get the pet to help you. It’s great fun.

Sogradde.8016:

Vayne.8563:

It’s all about getting new blood into the game. Almost all games have natural attrition. People stop playing for all sorts of reasons. Those people need to be replaced by other people. This is of prime importance for the business.

Now, if you added a guild hall, which I’d like personally, that won’t stop normal attrition, it would affect people who aren’t in guilds and even in Guild Wars 1, if you didn’t GvG it didn’t really mean much to a lot of people.

But all the time the attrition would take it’s toll and eventually we’d all be standing alone in our guild halls.

All games need new blood if they’re to survive long term. Anet has said the old system didn’t cut it. I believe them.

Well maybe, if there was actually something to do, people wouldn’t leave the game left and right.

Inb4: “b-but there’s WvW…! And sPvP! A..and dungeons”! Stop shilling.

Way to miss the point.

Anet isn’t talking about long time players leaving the game. That’s not what they’re talking about. They’re talking about people playing the game at start and getting bored and not continuing.

If you like the initial experience you might think everyone does or most people do. Anet’s testing shows them that’s not the case. Leaving the game long term has nothing to do with this update, but Colin said until they fix this, they can’t move forward with other things they want to do.

BrotherBelial.3094:

Vayne.8563:

Gene Archer.8560:

Actually, if people had watched the video and paid attention, they’d see that the changes discouraged the newbie, because he feels like his freedoms in the game have been stifled and his choices have been taken from him.

Regardless of what Vayne thinks. The changes -ARE- actively discouraging new players. Is it more than they’re bringing in? Who knows.

But the fact they’re discouraging the type of player that they’re made for should say SOMETHING to him.

But then he’d have to admit that maybe Anet screwed up.

It’s not like I stand alone. Here are a couple of threads from reddit. Read the comments.

Anet may have screwed up and they may not have screwed up. But it’ll take a lot more time than most of the fan base gave it to know that they screwed up. A knee-jerk reaction by the playerbase does not a screw up make.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g4iio/so_i_tried_making_a_new_character_last_night/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g3fmt/i_honestly_think_leveling_is_much_more_fun_now/

Tell that to Bioware. The end to ME3 cost them. There forums where on fire, much like GW2’s are. What did Bioware do? They added to the end to make it better.

I know that there are bugs, and yes misinformation. But by ANets own words they have “hidden” icons like PvP and WvW that “unlock” as a level up reward. So by the very wording what are people to think? If anything the misinformation is ANets doing. I was leveling an alt and dinged 21-22 I can’t remember what level it was and I was rewarded with a neck item, the information I had read that trinkets now had a chance to drop. Making it sound as if they where level locked. So the misinformation started by the NPE. People then past on this information that they got ingame, to the forums. Then they are told that the game is giving them the wrong information. Nothing is level locked(apart from weapon skills which is horse s**t) and we need to stop acting as if it is. Surly from a year of testing someone would have picked this up, And thought, humm the wording on that’s a bit off. Should probably change that. But no, we are over reacting dew to information given to us BY THE GAME! I’ll be glad when next week rolls around to we can see what’s been fixed and changed.

I don’t have all the text in front of me, but saying something now has a chance to drop in game, doesn’t mean that you couldn’t use one if you got it before. I remember someone posting the vista message too. Nothing said they were locked.

Regardless, it’s a mess no matter how you slice it. I can’t wait for next week either.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

It’s not my data, it is Anet’s. I simply believe they did those tests and got the results they said they did.

There are not enough pictures of Facepalming Picard in the universe to properly emphasize just how hard I am facepalming at this very moment.

The magnitude may well set off the Richter Scale.

Which doesn’t make you right. Ridiculing someone doesn’t make them wrong either.

The future will prove Anet wrong or right.

Gene Archer.8560:

rapthorne.7345:

Just watched that video, and pretty much everything he said is exactly how I feel, too. (also as a new play with a little over a week’s experience)

Sorry, but Colin and Vayne’s hard data and metrics clearly tell you that you’re wrong. This is what’s best for the game and you.

(for the record, this post is laced with 10 tons of snark)

It’s not my data, it is Anet’s. I simply believe they did those tests and got the results they said they did.

Yes Anet is very good at the game breaking patch thing. There have already been a couple since the update fixing various things.

vectorfox.6894:

Vayne.8563:

Not quite what the devs said. They said people weren’t staying with the game the way it used to be, and when they changed it to this way, more people continued playing for longer.

It’s not even necessarily that they needed hand holding. The changes are more than just hand holding. They also give rewards up front more often and some people like/need that.

So instead of just getting something, if it’s given as a reward (because we humans tend to like rewards), people end up more engaged.

Before weapon skills meant nothing when you got another one. It was done. This time, Anet front-loaded a bunch of rewards, even meaningless stuff, and then gave people a feel of accomplishment as they played.

It’s not the gating and learning that’s the only important thing, apparently, but the pacing and the feeling of progression.

This way people felt like they were progressing and stayed to play longer. The other way they didn’t.

Obviously Anet was trying to keep this other player base which didn’t stick to the game and this patch is reminding me heavily of something… eastern mmorpgs. I have played quite a lot these mmos and what i find similar is what these changes are imposing such as locking skills at levels instead of weapon use. Now this may be because of the chinese launch and their changes which have seemingly been carried over although they somewhat try and make it not sound like a complete copy. Some people actually liked the weapon unlocking (i know i did) because there was a thrill of “oh hey, as i use this weapon my character is getting smarter or stronger!” but chucking out numbers to reach before you can use them just breaks the immersion of what gw2 was so good at. Its actually interesting to see players who had just been playing before the patch from a week or less saying that they don’t enjoy the unlocking.

Now about your point on the rewards aspect, this i never said was bad and was actually going to say this was a high point because it just gave more free stuff, i mean like you said who doesn’t like rewards. But i believe the rest wasn’t needed and if that level locking wasn’t implemented and we only got the new rewards feature and guide it would be pretty lame.

Now i know not everyone has the same opinion but the progression they are aiming for is more restricted and less exciting i mean to progress you have to complete hearts and do the story and what not but with this recent change and i am going to use one of the most brought up examples right now which is the cows in Queensdale, I would find it hard to believe people like progressing with a lesser variety of options and less sensible options at that. The pacing is actually the fastest i have seen in an mmorpg for lower levels and gets quite slow in the 40’s and somewhat near the end, but this patch makes the pacing even faster suggesting it was too slow.

This NPE just falls on its face when you really think about it and is overall very Topsy-turvy.

Now lets say none of this were to be released and instead they introduced guilds halls or something else desired by the community, would it have been worth it more than the NPE? I would say yes and i believe the amount of joyous citizens of Tyria would agree.

It’s all about getting new blood into the game. Almost all games have natural attrition. People stop playing for all sorts of reasons. Those people need to be replaced by other people. This is of prime importance for the business.

Now, if you added a guild hall, which I’d like personally, that won’t stop normal attrition, it would affect people who aren’t in guilds and even in Guild Wars 1, if you didn’t GvG it didn’t really mean much to a lot of people.

But all the time the attrition would take it’s toll and eventually we’d all be standing alone in our guild halls.

All games need new blood if they’re to survive long term. Anet has said the old system didn’t cut it. I believe them.

Gene Archer.8560:

Ashen.2907:

That, “if,” remains to be determined.

No it doesn’t. We already have statements from new players.

I stated very specifically that it’s unknown which number is more, those driven away or those coming in.

But new players are being discouraged by these changes, and that’s not a good thing when it’s supposed to do the opposite, even if it’s only a small number. Because those discouraged will, much as the video maker did, pass that on to more people.

Vayne.8563:

It was intended for players who are starting the game after the patch.

It is called the new player experience. It’s intended for new players, period.

As for the rest of your post: See @Ashen

My hot water heater is called a hot water heater…but it only heats cold water. Hot water doesn’t need to be heated.

What something’s called doesn’t equate to why it was designed. Colin was pretty clear about player retention for people just starting being a problem and it had to be fixed. Presumably because they’re going to have a free trial and they want that experience to hold more people.

I don’t know why you’d think that meant someone already at level 8 or 9 who experienced the old system already would like this one better. Particularly if a bunch of experienced vets are knocking it.

They tested these changes over a year, along with a bunch of other changes. It’s nice to theorize, but I’m pretty sure Anet got the idea right, if not the exact details.

I don’t think that this is going to change now, because I don’t think anything we can say will be more conclusive than extensive testing.

There are two answers to your questions OP. Colin explained further some of why what was done was what done and it wasn’t just about teaching it was also about pacing.

Anet did extensive testing over a one year period and this was the version of the build which retained the most players and kept them playing longer.

As for the downed state being too hard or confusing or not, that’s not really the problem. People learn better when not bombarded with stuff. There’s a lot going on in the beginning and if you keep through stuff on top of it, even simple stuff, some of it will slip through the cracks.

If I say remember this number and I say 4, you’l have no problem.

If I say remember this number, 3, you’ll have no problem.

They’re only single digits.

But if I kept that up and gave you more and more single digits without any break in between to memorize them, you’d soon be forgetting some of them, and if you don’t, then others definitely one.

It’s not that any one thing is so complex. It’s that a barrage of things all at once is harder to retain.

Amon.5042:

They shouldn’t have gone full kitten (as in excessive dumbing down) on leveling up.

The previous unlock for weapon skills was very intuitive and immersive. It already provided a very good way to get acquainted with each weapon skill while interacting with the environment. They basically replaced something much more organic to something completely artificial. If level locking works for some people, then confine that to the utility skills and perhaps reduce the weapon unlock on kills, but never go full “kitten”.

In that line, it’s counter-intuitive to hide information from the map. Let it all out but have something like a “what is this” button that can relay information on what are those icons on the map. Perhaps include specific videos embedded from YouTube which would give a much more effective visual information than to just have written “boring” words to read. It is preferable to have some thing like this, that players can enable or disable at any time, than to treat players like they are idiots. It is not intended, for certain, but it is what people end up feeling.

Again take the weapon swap as an example. It used to unlock at level 7. Now it unlocks at either 12 or 14, I forget.

I get to those levels faster than I used to get to level 7. It’s not the level which is an arbitrary number, but the time played. People are so hypnotized by the level, they seem to forget that leveling up faster means you get to stuff just as fast, even if it unlocks at a higher number.

misterman.1530:

Vayne.8563:

It gives you a message telling you to come back later. I’d think that was enough. At least the one I did gave me that message.

It did. But with no idea how much longer. No idea that I will have to wait 7 more levels.

Those seven levels come awfully fast. And since you’re getting messages every level to show what’s unlocked, the odds are most people will just wait for the message and it will click.

There isn’t really a pace of reward levels. A new person wouldn’t question it is much because they NEVER got one skill point per level. They’d see at different levels I get different stuff….cool.

One of the problems with the old system that annoyed me early on, was that I was getting 1 skill point per level, but I needed to buy 6 point skills at that point and it was like really? It was annoying to be getting something I really couldn’t use till I got a bunch more. I’d look around for skill challenges on maps, and farm a few skill points to buy the next skill, but it wasn’t fun.

This way you get stuff every level. You have a mouseover thing that tells you what you’re getting next level, and what you get at which level, if it’s not already, will be in the wiki.

But the expectation of getting specific stuff at specific levels is only going to affect current players. The rest will see it as cool rewards as they get them.

It gives you a message telling you to come back later. I’d think that was enough. At least the one I did gave me that message.

Sunshine.4680:

Vayne.8563:

Sunshine.4680:

Vayne.8563:

Sunshine.4680:

The new leveling system was designed to bore people and for people who play GW 2 on leap frogs. Vayne has been in full white knight mode since the patch, it’s like one mad man screaming at the dark. Maybe he’s an eternal optimist and everything makes him happy.

Yes, Vayne, all by himself. No one else likes these changes…etc and so forth.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g3fmt/i_honestly_think_leveling_is_much_more_fun_now/

376 upvotes on reddit.

Vayne isn’t alone. Contrary to what most people think, I’m seldom alone. Many agree with me.

Responding to a community that was in full riot mode is sort of what I do. But at the end of the day, there are people who were complaining yesterday who are singing a different tune now that they’ve actually tried the experience. Some like it. Some say they don’t get what the big deal everyone is making is about.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g4tpk/the_npe_challenge_who_will_be_honest_let_me_start/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g5ipk/has_anyone_else_noticed_a_cycle_in_this_sub/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g594i/a_positive_review_of_the_feature_pack_this_seems/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g32tc/is_leveling_faster_after_feature_pack/

I’m sure there’s more but you get the idea. I’m not alone in this.

And yes there are people who still don’t like the change, but that’s true of any change.

It doesn’t mean it’s not a change for the better.

What about it makes it better do tell? I also could care less about redit or anything like that, they’re are people celebrating warrior nerfs and happily trolling their forum. Guess that means those nerfs were a positive too.

Warrior nerfs were certainly positive. I’m almost partying about them.

I’ve explained elsewhere what makes it better and I have no intention of typing it all again. I’ve linked threads where people say they liked it better. There have even been threads on this forum where people like it better.

Yesterday on reddit, the world had come to an end. It was over. Everyone was leaving. People were telling people not to buy stuff. The reaction shifted as people started giving it a chance.

Those who judged it immediately, and will stick with that no matter what are already gone. That’s the price you pay for improving something. Some people won’t like the change even if it is better for the product. I’ve seen this often in my life. It never stopped my business from moving forward.

The tide has already shifted and the big fixes aren’t even in yet.

No offense but all you do is come into these threads and try to make it seem like the patch is great then bail out saying you already explained it. so why do you show up in all these threads? You like the patch, good for you. Does that mean you need to go into every thread that dislikes the patch? It’s your opinion, or do you think because you like it that we all should?

Because my explanation was posted in a thread that was on topic for that thread. I’ve already gotten enough infractions, thanks.

I showed up in this thread because, having kids myself, I don’t think I’d have been very concerned if they didn’t personally like something. I got myself in trouble in this thread by saying something that offended people and I deleted my comments to avoid hurting feelings.

That’s why I’m in this thread. However, I did link places where people are talking about what’s good in the patch, which to me is answering the question of what’s good in the patch.

The short answer is that I feel more rewarded this way than the old way.

Gene Archer.8560:

Vayne.8563:

Read the comments.

Watch the video.

Vayne.8563:

Anet may have screwed up and they may not have screwed up. But it’ll take a lot more time than most of the fan base gave it to know that they screwed up.

And who constitutes enough time? Players gave it all the time they felt was necessary to make their judgment. You don’t get to decide what’s enough time.

Vayne.8563:

A knee-jerk reaction by the playerbase does not a screw up make.

I’m not talking about the playerbase. I said new players. And if the changes meant for them are pushing them away, then yes. A screw up has occurred.

But feel free to plug your ears, close your eyes, and pretend this was the best thing ever. It’s par for the course with you, anyway.

It was intended for players who are starting the game after the patch. They’ve just released a trial mode in China. How much do you want to bet a free trial mode will appear here too, or at least more weekends.

Colin came right out and said it. New players, people who are just starting, don’t stay with the game. They spent a year testing this on various players with various backgrounds and this is the one that yielded the best result, not just because of dumb or not dumb, but because of pacing, reward structure, everything. Colin said this variation kept more people playing longer.

If you want to disagree with that, that’s fine…but I think, if I were Anet, I’d go with the hard data.

Sunshine.4680:

Vayne.8563:

Sunshine.4680:

The new leveling system was designed to bore people and for people who play GW 2 on leap frogs. Vayne has been in full white knight mode since the patch, it’s like one mad man screaming at the dark. Maybe he’s an eternal optimist and everything makes him happy.

Yes, Vayne, all by himself. No one else likes these changes…etc and so forth.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g3fmt/i_honestly_think_leveling_is_much_more_fun_now/

376 upvotes on reddit.

Vayne isn’t alone. Contrary to what most people think, I’m seldom alone. Many agree with me.

Responding to a community that was in full riot mode is sort of what I do. But at the end of the day, there are people who were complaining yesterday who are singing a different tune now that they’ve actually tried the experience. Some like it. Some say they don’t get what the big deal everyone is making is about.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g4tpk/the_npe_challenge_who_will_be_honest_let_me_start/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g5ipk/has_anyone_else_noticed_a_cycle_in_this_sub/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g594i/a_positive_review_of_the_feature_pack_this_seems/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g32tc/is_leveling_faster_after_feature_pack/

I’m sure there’s more but you get the idea. I’m not alone in this.

And yes there are people who still don’t like the change, but that’s true of any change.

It doesn’t mean it’s not a change for the better.

What about it makes it better do tell? I also could care less about redit or anything like that, they’re are people celebrating warrior nerfs and happily trolling their forum. Guess that means those nerfs were a positive too.

Warrior nerfs were certainly positive. I’m almost partying about them.

I’ve explained elsewhere what makes it better and I have no intention of typing it all again. I’ve linked threads where people say they liked it better. There have even been threads on this forum where people like it better.

Yesterday on reddit, the world had come to an end. It was over. Everyone was leaving. People were telling people not to buy stuff. The reaction shifted as people started giving it a chance.

Those who judged it immediately, and will stick with that no matter what are already gone. That’s the price you pay for improving something. Some people won’t like the change even if it is better for the product. I’ve seen this often in my life. It never stopped my business from moving forward.

The tide has already shifted and the big fixes aren’t even in yet.

zenleto.6179:

Vayne.8563:

There are already complaints that the game is too face roll easy.

Just to take this little bit (and hopefully not derail the thread) but I’ve been thinking that the new early leveling is exactly this. Its become even more easy so I’m wondering if this where many of the current complains are springing from since many of the vets are more than capable of doing the early stuff blindfolded and this has made it even easier. Maybe if we knew exactly what was intended would help with that.

The first fifteen levels of games are supposed to be easy. That’s their job. For vets, they should fly through them and get to more challenging stuff.

Are you really telling me that leveling the old way the game wasn’t too easy anyway? Making it even more easy doesn’t affect my experience, because I’ve already leveled through every area a zillion times. It just makes 15-25 zones the new starting area for basic challenge…and even that won’t be all that challenging.

But since they seriously upped the speed to get to that area, I’d say it’s pretty much a wash. It was very easy to level up. But it was easy last week too.

Gene Archer.8560:

Actually, if people had watched the video and paid attention, they’d see that the changes discouraged the newbie, because he feels like his freedoms in the game have been stifled and his choices have been taken from him.

Regardless of what Vayne thinks. The changes -ARE- actively discouraging new players. Is it more than they’re bringing in? Who knows.

But the fact they’re discouraging the type of player that they’re made for should say SOMETHING to him.

But then he’d have to admit that maybe Anet screwed up.

It’s not like I stand alone. Here are a couple of threads from reddit. Read the comments.

Anet may have screwed up and they may not have screwed up. But it’ll take a lot more time than most of the fan base gave it to know that they screwed up. A knee-jerk reaction by the playerbase does not a screw up make.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g4iio/so_i_tried_making_a_new_character_last_night/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g3fmt/i_honestly_think_leveling_is_much_more_fun_now/

Jaken.6801:

Vayne.8563:

I assume they won’t add it in with no work done on it, but the differences between the two Halloweens we’ve had so far is pretty broad.

Even stuff in the Labyrithe wasn’t identical between the two years. Same with Wintersdays. Infinarium changes, the jumping puzzle change. Hell even the Halloween jumping puzzle changed by making is so that you couldn’t be blocked by norn or charr jumping with you. People tend to forget these changes, but they make a huge difference in game play.

Rewards also changed from one year to the next. The mad king’s son thing was very different than the minidungeon from the first year. That was a major change too.

I think people if they actually counted individual changes would find that events are changing. Even the two new events added to the Four Winds event, and the new crystals and the addition of Master crystals was change. Conversations with people changed. Hints about what was to come abounded there. Rewards changed.

There have been changes to every single event so far. People just want to ignore them, because they’re not big huge instances, which isn’t really reasonable to expect.

To be fair, these were adjustments based on complains from the year before and not addition.
In general most of these things felt like substractions, since parts were just cut out, without any explanation.
People questioned that greatly last year, as the Bloody Prince was bloody disapointing, since his involvement was not that compelling like the Mad King and in general the halloween felt inferior for some (i will never say all)

Being disappointed with something new isn’t the same thing as not getting something new. I was very disappointed with Winds of Change in Guild Wars 1, but I acknowledge it was new.

The amount of work it took to put in that new stuff is probably as much or more than the stuff that was added to Guild Wars 1 Halloween.

Sunshine.4680:

The new leveling system was designed to bore people and for people who play GW 2 on leap frogs. Vayne has been in full white knight mode since the patch, it’s like one mad man screaming at the dark. Maybe he’s an eternal optimist and everything makes him happy.

Yes, Vayne, all by himself. No one else likes these changes…etc and so forth.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g3fmt/i_honestly_think_leveling_is_much_more_fun_now/

376 upvotes on reddit.

Vayne isn’t alone. Contrary to what most people think, I’m seldom alone. Many agree with me.

Responding to a community that was in full riot mode is sort of what I do. But at the end of the day, there are people who were complaining yesterday who are singing a different tune now that they’ve actually tried the experience. Some like it. Some say they don’t get what the big deal everyone is making is about.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g4tpk/the_npe_challenge_who_will_be_honest_let_me_start/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g5ipk/has_anyone_else_noticed_a_cycle_in_this_sub/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g594i/a_positive_review_of_the_feature_pack_this_seems/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2g32tc/is_leveling_faster_after_feature_pack/

I’m sure there’s more but you get the idea. I’m not alone in this.

And yes there are people who still don’t like the change, but that’s true of any change.

It doesn’t mean it’s not a change for the better.

They’re only being scared away because of people making a fuss over something. This too shall pass.

The game isn’t a bad advertisement, the fan base’s reaction is. It wouldn’t matter if the experience would have been better, if fans are going to, among other things, spread misinformation, and there was plenty of that going on.

Three months from now, no one will care. Those who hate it will leave, possibly more people who start from free trial weekends will sign on, and the whole rodeo will begin again.

Swizzle.7982:

Vayne.8563:

It’s funny. People wanted this game to be more like Guild Wars 1 and in Guild Wars 1, holiday festivals were almost exactly the same for a year at a time.

Almost the same, you use a lot of weasel words Vayne.

Halloween 2011 — Introduced new costumes, Costume Brawl disguises, and Scarred Psyche (a new challenge mission); the rewards for GvG were reduced. About two weeks after the end of the event, two Halloween 2011 hat givers, Aahtan and Erulis, were introduced and appeared for one week.
Halloween 2010 — Added Tyrian and Elonian quest chains; introduced new costumes, Costume Brawl disguises, and a Costume Brawl map; added Trick-or-Treat Bag rewards and new NPC disguises to GvG.
Halloween 2009 — Added Underworld quest chain.
Halloween 2008 — Added a new map to Costume Brawl.
Halloween 2007 — Added Costume Brawl and Trick-or-Treat Bags
Halloween 2006 — Added a finale, decorations, and collectors to Kamadan
Halloween 2005 — Introduced Halloween; initial decorations were in Lion’s Arch, Droknar’s Forge, and the Tomb of the Primeval Kings; initial collectors across Tyria; original finale in Lion’s Arch.

If they just add blood and madness back in with no new content at all then it will be the first time they’ve done this since the release of GW.

I assume they won’t add it in with no work done on it, but the differences between the two Halloweens we’ve had so far is pretty broad.

Even stuff in the Labyrithe wasn’t identical between the two years. Same with Wintersdays. Infinarium changes, the jumping puzzle change. Hell even the Halloween jumping puzzle changed by making is so that you couldn’t be blocked by norn or charr jumping with you. People tend to forget these changes, but they make a huge difference in game play.

Rewards also changed from one year to the next. The mad king’s son thing was very different than the minidungeon from the first year. That was a major change too.

I think people if they actually counted individual changes would find that events are changing. Even the two new events added to the Four Winds event, and the new crystals and the addition of Master crystals was change. Conversations with people changed. Hints about what was to come abounded there. Rewards changed.

There have been changes to every single event so far. People just want to ignore them, because they’re not big huge instances, which isn’t really reasonable to expect.

I’m deleting all my posts in this thread because someone felt I was being offensive. I don’t agree with that assessment but out of respect for that person’s opinion I will remove the offending comments.

Apologies to anyone who was offended.