Guild Wars 2

Celestina.2894:

Sorean.5379:

I’m loving the new leveling rewards and I’m actually excited (created 2 alts since yesterday) to see what is the next reward.

I’m motivated to level up now,it actually feels like a whole new experience,and I’m loving it (:

So,yes,I’m against the rollback.

Tbh, I don’t think it’s the rewards people have an issue with, that is a good change.

What is stupid and completely insulting is Anet thinking we need to wait till 40 for a full skill bar, or new player’s would not be able to comprehend it. Not to mention the other level gates now in place.

If they absolutely refuse to change this, we should be given the option of this new version, or the old version (with gear rewards for leveling) upon creating a character.

I agree that the change to the unlocking was taken too far. I like the idea, and it needs adjustment, but it’s too long between unlocks. I think it’s pretty important to have an elite at 30 anyway, because that’s when the first dungeon unlocks. Why would you want to do a dungeon without an elite?

But most of the change I am happy with. It just needs some tweaks from my point of view.

SkiTz.4590:

Man sometimes I feel bad for Vayne lol, …bashed for opinions, but that is gw2 forums for you lol… no offense buddy but you literally think 99% of the changes anet has been making have been absolutely amazing changes and think they can do no wrong and this game is absolutely going in the right direction…PLENTY of ppl are not on the same boat as you here..

You’re not alone. Today I feel bad for Vayne too. lol

But no, I don’t think everything Anet has done is perfect. I don’t think this patch is close to perfect. But the errors I see in the patch are different than the errors others see, and with all the bruhaha going on, whatever I say would be lost in a sea of complaints anyway so I just use the bug report feature.

Minis need to be grouped in sets, so people can figure out what they need for what achievements, and you need to be able to mouse over the trading post to see if you have the mini or not, which you currently can’t do.

I don’t like the whole black lion collection thing very much at all.

The achievement panel is terribad now. The general tab is a jumble of things that’s extremely disorganized.

And not all of the changes to the leveling experience are perfect….it’s just better than it was for me.

My favorite changes are the fact that you get the story segments all at once, so it’s contiguous and the better rewards for each level. I like a lot of the tutorial stuff too. I’m basically young at hard. If something goes ping and I get to click on it and it shows me cool stuff, it keeps me happy.

That doesn’t mean the new system doesn’t need adjustments, because it does. But that’s true with most systems released in games these days. They need tweaking.

But since the overall sentiment is so toxic, I try to remain the voice of reason.

You did notice I didn’t like, and was vocally against the way the trait update was handled, didn’t you?

Devata.6589:

@Vayne
So summarized: Before it was not so good but now it’s good and it’s also good that they looked to other mmo’s as an example. Also before they had problem getting new players because it was not good, but now that might become better.

I wonder in how many older post of you, you did say the opposite of this and you basically render invalid because of this. Having just one skill is boring no matter if you don’t ‘need’ more.

I’ve been talking about need tutorials and this game teaching the game poorly for a long long time. I’ve certainly posted about it.

Now I didn’t post that we need exactly what Anet has done here, but I know people in real life who simply don’t have the…freedom of thought to play a game that doesn’t lead you around by the nose. Or rather, they probably could if the game started off more like other games and gradually evolved into something more, taking them along with it.

I had a guildie from Guild Wars 1. Guild War 1, no matter how good it was, was a linear game. He plays DDO but I can’t get him over here. If you don’t give him something to do that’s what he does next, he doesn’t get it. He doesn’t want to think. But he’s not the only one.

I’ve said all along this game is different and many who come here “don’t get it”. They come from other games and have other expectations, try this game and think, screw this, and walk away. If you haven’t seen me say this, you haven’t been paying attention.

I think this patch isn’t perfect, but it’s better than it was. And yes, I’ve been saying this game does a bad job of communicating itself to players for a long time.

Anet also has a bad track record of communicating with players.

Templar.4512:

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

This is more a comment on the fan’s reactions. I don’t think anyone at PC gamer tested it. They certainly didn’t say they did.

Ofcourse they don’t say it u whiteknight.
When I read a review on a gamesite and I don’t see anything where they litteraly tell that they played the game, then man, I won’t take that review seriously!!!

Dude, your white knighting is losing its touch.

He’s not a white knight. However, I can’t state my opinion of what he really is, since I’ll get an infraction again. Just bear in mind that he is able to actively defend the game for at least 8 hours a day (check his posting history) and does so on every thread, with a PR-esque demeanor.

Nice implication. I could just have a lot of free time, and not like people who use hyperbole to try to make a point. You probably haven’t noticed there are a number of complaint threads every single day that I don’t post in.

I’ll post in this one, because the title of the thread is not what the article says, which makes it misleading. This isn’t PR talk…it’s fact. PC magazine is reporting on the fan reaction. My opinion is that it’s an over-reaction, but that’s just that…my opinion.

I post for a lot more than 8 hours a day. That’s because I’m always on the computer, I have duel monitors and I haven’t slept since the 70s. lol

Illuminati.2431:

Vayne.8563:

This is more a comment on the fan’s reactions. I don’t think anyone at PC gamer tested it. They certainly didn’t say they did.

Ofcourse they don’t say it u whiteknight.
When I read a review on a gamesite and I don’t see anything where they litteraly tell that they played the game, then man, I won’t take that review seriously!!!

Dude, your white knighting is losing its touch.

Always funny how people who don’t like something are willing to sacrifice truth to score a point.

This thread is labeled PC Gamer Poorly Reviews Feature Pack. What I see, as opposed to that is, PC Gamer reports on fan’s reaction to feature patch.

These are very different statements. You, not liking the game, are happy to use it to prove your point, even though it’s demonstrably inaccurate. One doesn’t have to be a “white knight” to point out something that is both true and fairly obvious.

This is more a comment on the fan’s reactions. I don’t think anyone at PC gamer tested it. They certainly didn’t say they did.

OP I think this is more of an issue of you being used to something than the thing you’re used to being better. The new trading post is a huge improvement over the old one.

Celestina.2894:

zenleto.6179:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

The standard complaints about this game usually involve the open world being way too easy. It’s much easier with everything unlocked. But you can still pretty much 1 your way through everything if that’s what you want to do and you know how to kite.

Breaking News: All weapon skill get removed to make the game more challenging!
Seriously, that’s a stupid answer. Making the game more challenging by cutting the ability of the player to react properly to certain situations?

I love how people take one paragraph out of a whole respond and then try to claim the answer is stupid. Totally out of context.

I’m not saying it’s better because it’s more challenging. I’m saying that the complaints about it being harder are quite silly to me. At least to me it wasn’t much harder at all. It’s all the other stuff that makes the change good for me.

I wish people would see the forest instead of the leaves sometimes.

Remind me to poke a friend who isn’t still sore about City of Heroes about starting up a new account and I’ll have to run an experiment how long before they decide to crawl back to WoW.

That’d be interesting, seeing how a real new person goes.

Well, I already found 7 new players completely confused (they started just before the patch from what they told me) as to why the suddenly could not interact with a skill point.

A friend of mine who started playing a day or so prior is absolutely disgusted by the changes, she much preferred the old system.

And Vayne, I’m sorry, but I can possibly believe you’d be foolish enough to support this. It teaches new players nothing, it improves nothing for them, and it just makes everything so much more tedious.

That video was dripping with sarcasm yes, but he also made nothing up. He said it exactly as it was and you’d be a blind fool not to admit that.

Hey may not have made anything up, but he definitely got something wrong. You couldn’t die in the tutorial a year ago. Nothing to do with today’s patch.

Also not sure what he was going on about camera angles, I don’t think those were changed in this patch.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Vayne.8563:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

@ Vayne:
I’m sorry, but I have to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y
That is what you are defending.

(It’s not my video, I just found it on reddit and it might show… some problems with the new system)

This doesn’t “do anything” to me. I’m not sure why you think it could. Let’s see, a guy with a nice voice, who is dripping with sarcasm tries to make a patch look stupid with opinions. I’m not quite through with it yet, but at least some of it I have to question immediately. Like not being able to die in the tutorial instance. That’s not knew because I’ve known about that for like a year. Except that the video is attributing it to this patch. So, if you don’t have your facts correct to start with, why should I believe the rest of it?

The reason I think they did that is because there are no waypoints in the tutorial, btw.

All this does is show me a guy who doesn’t get it.

To be sure not every single change is going to be perfect. I don’t think that the elite needs to be held off until 40, but the truth is, it makes very very little difference in the game to me. Very little.

But all the little things I’m getting while getting up to forty make a quite nice difference in the game for me.

So what made you think that video would affect me at all?

He doesn’t have to make the patch look stupid, the patch is stupid. Plain and simple.

I could render opinions as facts too, if I wanted to…but it doesn’t make them facts. I don’t think the patch is stupid. But that’s just my opinion. You’re entitled to yours.

Off means no arrow.

Hide events and personal story will still show you map completion stuff like vistas or points of interest that are nearby.

cesmode.4257:

I’ll give you one example why Im upset (aside from living story being the centerpiece of the game now).

Dungeons
Dungeon instances no longer close when the original creator leaves the party.

Yes, finally some dungeon love(sarcasm). Good change, but really? Thats all youre going to do for dungeons after 2 years?

Ok ok, lets be open minded and keep reading.

Fractals of the Mists
Cliffside:
Fixed an issue that prevented the Cultist Hammer from respawning correctly when players fell off the platforms around the chest and arms of the colossus.

More dungeon/fractal love. Wow. But this is a good bug fix. Only…this was a bug from day 1 when fractals released..how long ago? almost 2 years now?

That fractal bug wasn’t around for a long time. I ran fractals almost daily for a year and never encountered it. It’s recently reared it’s ugly head again, probably the last patch and they fixed it this patch.

Rauderi.8706:

Vayne.8563:

And you think veteran players universally like challenge OP? All veterans? Most veterans? Most veterans who happen to post on forums?

I’m a veteran and I think the leveling experience is one of my favorite parts of the new patch.

Now I’m curious. And not in a sarcastic way. =P

Would you mind expanding on your thoughts of why the new leveling ‘experience’ is a good thing? I just find it hamstrung and another deliberate drag on progression.

How far have you gotten in the new level system?

The old, original system, you’d level, level, level, suddenly look down and think, oh I leveled, check your traits and find you have 3 trait points. That’s not really good. Leveling meant very little, actually back then. You got stat increases, but if you didn’t check them and write them down you wouldn’t have even known by how much. You didn’t get rewarded for leveling. It was just a big blank slate…which works for some people, but probably not most people.

People come from other games where leveling is rewarding. They come here for a free weekend and get pretty much nothing. No real direction, no real reward to level.

Leveling rewards have been improved. Things are explained better. There are new things that teach you what to do in game. But for me, each time I level I get something. Doesn’t matter that I could buy the thing I get, I have the money…but normally when I level alts I don’t.

One day, just a few weeks ago, I was leveling an alt. I was fighting and not doing real well. Realized she was level 25 but most of her gear was starter gear. Not much had dropped for her that she could use. So she was not only unleveled but waaaay undergeared. I could have bought stuff, but I don’t like doing that. For one thing, all that stuff is overpriced to get someone five levels. And a new player, it would be much harder for them to gear up. It would feel like a big chunk of change for them.

Now I get drops for level, I get rewarded for leveling. Personal story rewards are better.

Also, I used to hate how disjointed the personal story was. I hated being underleveled for it, when I wanted to continue it. I wanted to just go and do the next part. Now it doesn’t actually start until you can do the whole story arc. My character doesn’t have to stop and start and stop and start.

I don’t really love the arrow that shows you where to go, but I’m glad you can switch it off or change it’s settings.

It gets better as you get higher too. You’ll start to appreciate it more when you start getting better level rewards higher up. I hit 55 on a character and got a choice of rare items to upgrade what I was wearing. I really liked that aspect of it.

It feels far more reward to level than it used to…to me anyway.

They’d actually planned AI companions when the game was first announced, but decided it would be too many on the map at one time at big events, so they scrapped it. I’m pretty sure it was a decision based on lag.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Vayne.8563:

There were times in the story your character would be required to act. Save this person. Save the whatever. Then you find, oh wait…I’m underleveled. I can’t save that person.

I"m literally going to have to stop saving this person, go help a farmer or whatever, level up and THEN go help this person. That to me was far more immersion breaking than doing the entire story segment at one time.

“I wanna play the second part of the story, oh wait I’m underleveled, I can’t do it. i’ll have to stop playing the story to go help a farmer, level up and then resume the storytelling”

Works both ways.

My point is the second part of the story doesn’t exist until you’ve finished the first part. You don’t actually know about it.

Until you can do the story, the story hasn’t started. So it doesn’t work both ways. Take the poor human story. At level 10 I first get a letter from my friend, saying he needs my help. I didn’t get that letter at level 2. I got it when I could do the story. And then I was able to do the WHOLE story.

The other way, I get a letter from my friend at level 2. He’s in trouble and eventually I can do this thing at level 4 this thing at level 6, this thing at level 8.

Now once you finish the story arc, it’s done. There’s nothing else to do, because your character has no knowledge of the next story. Thus immersion isn’t broken.

Psybunny.8906:

A bit of a backstory, I’m a veteran (preorder, played since closed betas, /age 2700h+). I haven’t played GW2 for about a year (forum says 10 months I believe). That is not because I didn’t like the game (obviously I did, since I have like 6-7 geared lvl 80’s and I enjoyed both PvE and PvP intensily).

What kept me from coming back, or well increased me taking a “break” from the game was the lack of meaningful content. No new dungeons, expansions, meaningful new areas that actually contain some content. All we got was some instanced LS events that felt empty and with one of the cheesiest Mary Sue villains ever. Not to mention rehashing of old materials, mindless grind achievements and new useless currency introduced every week.

Anyways, to get to the point, me and my fellow ex-guildies decided the other day to come back to the game and start new alts together. As reluctant as we were, feelings of nostalgia and remembering how it was to play in the “old days” sounded fun. Some of us were actually really hyped about this. I mean the new wardrobe system sounds wonderful and I remember it was something that some people were requesting since launch.
But…after reading about the new “Features”, I think we all agree that we’re gonna pass and find some alternative. Sad to see the direction this game is heading, especially since for me out of the MMOs I’ve played GW2 still has/had the best combat and “feel” to it.

Try it before you knock it. Don’t listen to a forum. Go in the game, make a character and try it. You’ll hit level ten within an hour of starting and it picks up very quickly from there.

If you believe what you’re reading here, then you’re only getting half the story. Reddit, for example, isn’t nearly as dissatisfied as this group, many of whom have an ax to grind prior to this anyway.

There were times in the story your character would be required to act. Save this person. Save the whatever. Then you find, oh wait…I’m underleveled. I can’t save that person.

I"m literally going to have to stop saving this person, go help a farmer or whatever, level up and THEN go help this person. That to me was far more immersion breaking than doing the entire story segment at one time.

XunlaiSpy.9384:

eXeth.9134:

You have to remember one important aspect to this: We are not China.
The game will not function here as it does in China.

The students I know over there are frustrated playing their version of the game too.

eXeth.9134:

Also, by not having vistas and skill challenges available at an early level

I noticed the skill challenge restriction but I was too peeved to notice the vista restrictions. So much for leveling up by exploring the world.

You can get vistas from level 2. They simply don’t show up on the map prior to that. I’ve been getting vistas as I pass them on my character. It’s a gate for information, not for what you can do. The only exception seems to be skill points, which is okay because you can’t use the skills you buy with them anyway at low levels.

The skill point challenges are irrelevant since you can’t use the skills to later anyway. They unlock when you need them.

I’m just stunned this is so painful for some people.

Long before this patch came out, I used to wait until I was at the end of a story arc to play the story, so I could play the story all at once and not have it constantly interrupted by the need to gain a couple of levels. Because the story is broken into chapters it becomes disjointed. This is one of the major complaints people have had about the story since day 1. It feels like it’s not connected.

By doing it this way, you not only get better rewards, but you get a chunk of story at once and can finish the arc.

It may just be a preference thing, but many people didn’t like it how it was before and quite a few complained about it.

CyClotroniC.4957:

I really feel bad for Anet right now, because it must have been a lot of work and I bet they truly wanted to improve it, but I just don’t get why is it good. So basically all the limitations should serve new players and help them to slowly experience every single part of the game, but I still see it as counterproductive.

Curiosity is a huge part of new player experience, and it just feels like that I’m walking into a restaurant and the waiter is telling me, that I cannot have a menu, until I taste the daily special. I mean if a new player is capable of using, learning, unterstanding new skill and aspects of the game, why hold him back? I’m pretty sure if someone is confused by the game (A) he will go with autoattacks by his own will until he is comfortable with using more (B) ask around in mapchat and experience the helpful community of the game and feel welcomed.

I had no problem at all with leveling up 2 years ago, since then I leveled up many alts, most of them with 100% world completion and I’m still waiting since april to level up an engi. Created one a couple of weeks ago, because I hoped you will redesign the trait-system, and now I will wait more. It’s just time consuming and I wouldn’t like to waste significantly more time on leveling an alt, because I want to play the Living Story (which is great by the way) or participate in the WvW season.

The best thing would be to go back to our roots with leveling, because it was perfectly fine. I’m not against changes, I loved most of the improvements you have done so far, but this particular think failed I’m afraid (although one thing I like, the built-in tutorials on starting maps, that was a good idea).

I just really want to understand your side of the story, because I get that you wanted to help new players, I just don’t get that why did you think dumbing/slowing down leveling is helpful. I even give you that you might be right, I just cannot see the benefits of it all.

In case you still believe in your new system, at least you can please the experienced players by allowing them to get traits in bulk (like the old way – you can even raise the price of trait books, I don’t care) and give them an opportunity to start from a higher level. For example I would happily mystic forge level-20 scrolls to upgrade them into level-40-60-80 ones.

All in all I feel bad for the new players, because they will reach the awesome parts of this game so much slower then we did, and I feel bad for Anet, because they must have worked a lot on this change and I know that I won’t level up my alt until it is fixed.

I think as you get further on in the leveling process, you’ll see exactly why it’s good.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

@ Vayne:
I’m sorry, but I have to do this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-On3Ya0_4Y
That is what you are defending.

(It’s not my video, I just found it on reddit and it might show… some problems with the new system)

This doesn’t “do anything” to me. I’m not sure why you think it could. Let’s see, a guy with a nice voice, who is dripping with sarcasm tries to make a patch look stupid with opinions. I’m not quite through with it yet, but at least some of it I have to question immediately. Like not being able to die in the tutorial instance. That’s not knew because I’ve known about that for like a year. Except that the video is attributing it to this patch. So, if you don’t have your facts correct to start with, why should I believe the rest of it?

The reason I think they did that is because there are no waypoints in the tutorial, btw.

All this does is show me a guy who doesn’t get it.

To be sure not every single change is going to be perfect. I don’t think that the elite needs to be held off until 40, but the truth is, it makes very very little difference in the game to me. Very little.

But all the little things I’m getting while getting up to forty make a quite nice difference in the game for me.

So what made you think that video would affect me at all?

Edit: Finished watching the video. Clearly the buggy pointer is a major probably in the charr starting area and needs to be fixed. I’ve been playing in Queensdale and I’ve had no problems with the pointer at all it’s working as intended.

Definitely bugged in The Black Citadel. And it’s a crappy bug. So Anet will fix it. I hope the guy took a second to report the bug, instead of just making a video.

Still doesn’t change most of what I’ve said.

The starter zones are meant to be tutorial zones, and they’ve removed/changed a lot of stuff.

My guess is the 15-25 zones will become the new go to zones for players.

I’d rather gather iron and softwood than greenwood and copper anyway.

Kamui.4038:

Vayne.8563:

beelzebub.1289:

to be quite honest… they’re just making us “SWING A SWORD… OVER AND OVER AGAIN… HEY I SWUNG IT AGAIN… OH AND AGAIN!” <remember something like this?

Yes… the Guild Wars manifesto trailer said something like this. and according to Guild Wars 2 developers they said “This is not something we want to do… we want to make the world living and make everything unique”

Instead they are going against what they said in their very own manifesto and doing the complete opposite. I would like Guild Wars 2 patchbringers to realize what they are doing to their manifesto promise

I personally don’t like the level lock on the skill bar. The story on the other hand i’m fine with… although they could lower the personal story to level 5.

Sure because 10 levels is the game. Most games have tutorials. The quote you’re quoting is actually a quote about grinding levels to get to the fun stuff.

Can you still go to PvP at level 2 if you want? Yes. Can you still level in EotM? Yes.

It’s not like you can’t go there. That’s what Colin was talking about.

I wish people would stop taking quotes out of context. It doesn’t help their arguments.

And I don’t appreciate ANet employees masquerading as simple players considering you’ve done nothing but try and damage control all morning. Put your red tag on already.

That would explain the infraction’s and bans I’ve gotten I guess. Maybe not.

Anet wouldn’t likely touch me with a ten foot poll. In case you haven’t noticed, I’m not universally loved here.

And what I said remains true, even though your response is completely off topic.

beelzebub.1289:

to be quite honest… they’re just making us “SWING A SWORD… OVER AND OVER AGAIN… HEY I SWUNG IT AGAIN… OH AND AGAIN!” <remember something like this?

Yes… the Guild Wars manifesto trailer said something like this. and according to Guild Wars 2 developers they said “This is not something we want to do… we want to make the world living and make everything unique”

Instead they are going against what they said in their very own manifesto and doing the complete opposite. I would like Guild Wars 2 patchbringers to realize what they are doing to their manifesto promise

I personally don’t like the level lock on the skill bar. The story on the other hand i’m fine with… although they could lower the personal story to level 5.

Sure because 10 levels is the game. Most games have tutorials. The quote you’re quoting is actually a quote about grinding levels to get to the fun stuff.

Can you still go to PvP at level 2 if you want? Yes. Can you still level in EotM? Yes.

It’s not like you can’t go there. That’s what Colin was talking about.

I wish people would stop taking quotes out of context. It doesn’t help their arguments.

AlexEBT.7240:

Danikat.8537:

I’m fairly certain that around the time of the China launch they said the VIP system would never be added to EU/NA servers.

If it is then I’m going to need a new MMO.

They also said they’ll not introduce the levelling systems from the chinese release to the western client. And they sure kept their promise……..for a few months.

Sorry but they never said that to my knowledge. If you have a quote showing that I’d love to see it.

What they did say was that they weren’t introducing a VIP account to the west, and that that was only for the Chinese market. To my knowledge that is all they said.

I’ve not seen anyone provide a quote that shows otherwise.

Protoavis.9107:

Vayne.8563:

Protoavis.9107:

ICEing.9237:

Stop buying gems from the gem store, then they’ll definitely listen to the community.

Or quit. And come to the forums to read all the QQ and not be affected by it.
Take up knitting. It’s a fun hobby.

Given the NCSoft financial report, it’s clear less and less people are buying gems….they still aren’t listening though.

The last quarter contained the launch of both ESO and Wildstar. One would think Anet was expecting less gem sales. All part of doing business.

It also included the chinese launch….ie a brand new market, $$$ was still down from the previous quarter without the chinese market.

Chinese stuff went into royalties as far as I know, not the same category. That’s because the company that runs China has to be held separately. Essentially Anet licences the game to them and they give Anet royalties on it, since western companies can’t sell games in China. It’s how the structure is set up.

Considering the game is two years old, the report is pretty healthy actually.

VIP items are linkable in game because the code for them is in the patch. We’ve had items linkable in game for a year that aren’t in game.

This has been in game forever.

[&AgHJrgAA]

Vitus Dance.4509:

Vayne.8563:

It doesn’t have to get personal.

…but it generally does.
Customers don’t see any specific individual, they see a company representative.
If you have a complaint, you want action or answers from the company (or person(s) representing that company) NOT the individual’s sympathies.

It doesn’t change anything I said. There are people literally cursing at Anet devs on these forums. For what exactly?

If I want action on something, I remain polite when asking for it.

Rhundan.7829:

Here are my thoughts regarding the level-up system, based on what I’ve seen in this thread. I have not actually made a new character and tried it, but from what I’ve heard:

Firstly: The Asura Gates.
Forgive me if I’m misinformed, but somebody said the Asura gates unlock at level 18? WHY? Has anybody except me created a new character to play with a friend whose character is a different race? I think they have, which begs the question of why ANet thinks it’s a good idea to stop you meeting eachother until you’ve alread spent 1-2 hours grinding!

When I first started the game, I didn’t know about the Gates! I had to run all the way from Rata Sum to Hoelbrak, dodging every monster on the way because it would insta-kill me. And now, that’s Required?

Secondly: The Level-Up System.
Don’t get me wrong, speeding leveling up at lower levels actually kind of needed to be done. But this concept of “Rewarding” people for leveling up by taking away what they used to have is kittening stupid. If a guy takes your watch and then promises to give it back to you if you answer three riddles, he’s not rewarding you, he’s stealing from you.
And you can BET that ANet will start selling Level 20 Scrolls in the Gemstore so that you can skip past this bullkitten. (If they don’t already, never checked) If the guy gives you an option to skip the riddles for £5, He is still stealing from you.

Thirdly: The Mentality
Ohhhhhh boy…. I’d bet money that this is just the first step in a headlong tumble to near Dungeon-Keeper (Mobile) levels of locking. In this, ANet has pulled an EA. Even if they roll back the “Features” they’ve added to the leveling system, I am not sure I will play again, and I’ll sure as hell never give them more money. Not until they earn my trust back, because this…. This displays a wanton disregard for the community by ANet. As somebody said “We’re not players, we’re wallets”, which is exactly how I think ANet sees us now. I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong. But ANet has taken GW2 one step closer to generic MMOs, the very thing I got GW2 because it was not.

Fourth: The Idea
I understand that they thought they needed a tutorial. Maybe they do. But making veteran players have to go through it as well is not cool. I could understand if they perhaps gave new players a tutorial, and maybe put them at level 5 or 10 at the end. But locking skills, locking Downed skills, locking Underwater skills…. ANet has not added content with this patch, they’ve removed it. Some people may say “Oh, it only takes about an hour of play to get to level 10!”, but I say “You mean it takes me an hour to get all my weapon skills?” The old system used to be a bit of a pain to get the fifth skills, but this is far worse. It never took an hour. In fact, I’ve never liked that Weapon-Swapping was locked, but I guess we didn’t jump on that fast enough, because it’s spread like a cancer. Remove it, ANet. Please, for the good of the veteran community, remove the compulsery grinding for things we used to have and love, because you are killing said community.

Most new players don’t know about the gates. They don’t UNLOCK at that level. It’s when Anet tells you about them. Before they didn’t tell you about them at all. You can still use Asuran gates at lower levels. Just used the gate to LA on my 10th level character to test it.

Most of these things aren’t locks. They’re just not talked about until then. Just like you can get into WvW by hitting B at any level, even if you don’t have the icon for it.

Protoavis.9107:

ICEing.9237:

Stop buying gems from the gem store, then they’ll definitely listen to the community.

Or quit. And come to the forums to read all the QQ and not be affected by it.
Take up knitting. It’s a fun hobby.

Given the NCSoft financial report, it’s clear less and less people are buying gems….they still aren’t listening though.

The last quarter contained the launch of both ESO and Wildstar. One would think Anet was expecting less gem sales. All part of doing business.

Vitus Dance.4509:

Vayne.8563:

When you type to the company, the company doesn’t read your response, people do.

Would that be the employees?
Employees that represent the company?
Employees that represent the company any reply following company procedure and policy?
…or just regular people?

People are people whether they work for a company or not. They get hired. They don’t grow from the company like a fruit. They had lives before that company. They have lives when they go home from that company. They have feelings just like most other humans.

So they put time and effort into making something, and some people don’t like it. Fair enough. That does not give people the right to insult, or call names, or even yell and stamp their feet.

Customers absolutely have the right to complain. They don’t have the right to be offensive.

Some of us can complain without actually insulting someone.

I’ve never walked into a store with a defective item and told the manager of the store, you’re terrible, you’re bad, you suck. I simply said this item doesn’t work as I expected it to work. You told me it would do X but it doesn’t.

It doesn’t have to get personal.

Asacledhae.2650:

UnitedChaos.8364:

My guild and I had so much fun playing the new updates. We couldn’t help but laugh and cheer as we played them. Keep doing what your doing ANET. Let the haters hate but ignore them.

If the so-called “haters” are the majority of the community, then yes.. Let ArenaNet ignore them, it’ll be fun to see what will come next. And careful who you call a hater, my friend. I would advise you to read through the forums before accusing people of such thing.

I don’t know why you think those disatisfied (I hate the word haters) are the majority of the community.

Protoavis.9107:

Vayne.8563:

IceVyper.6810:

Not exactly. If 99% of the collection is: go to this vendor and buy this, locking the final items behind RNG is just frustrating. I don’t mind having full RNG collections, I am the one that wants wants the fractal collection to be implemented. Items from a collection should have a similar way of acquisition, thus allowing us to complete at least some of them.

Again, by design. Did you ever play McDonald’s monopoly when they had it out. One property was ultra rare and all the other ones you can get.

They want people to get the easy ones and be left with one.

Because if it was all RNG a lot of people wouldn’t do it at all. This is part of game design theory. Gamers often have inertia and need a push. It’s true in all games. The games are designed to push people in certain directions. It’s done with holiday content. In older MMOs it’s done with end game zones. Keeps people together and doing stuff.

This isn’t really any different.

Because a game with extremely limited prizes is totes the same as gw2 collections right?

The gw2 collections is intended to drive up prices on limited supply rare items to encourage people to spend real world $$$ to convert to gold. it’s shady business practice at best.

Or conversely to get people do to content to get those drops and sell them on the trading post to make some gold. Run Jormag if you want a chance at that drop. If you get it, you can use it or you can sell it. I’ll use the first one and run it other times to see if I can get another to sell.

The rewards aren’t good enough for most people to run out and spend money on getting the collections. If they really wanted to do that, they’d given amazing rewards.

Ixillius.5768:

You are right, they are a company. Because of this we are also not their friends but paying customers. As paying customers some people might feel jaded by the changes that deminish their fun in the game.

This patch did some things right but also ruined most of the leveling experience.

They are not a company. They are people. Legally the company exists outside of the people that work for it. When you type to the company, the company doesn’t read your response, people do.

Would it really hurt to be a bit diplomatic in replies. I know for a fact if I were a dev, I’d find another job. These forums can be brutal.

Skaigash.4715:

White knights in this thread “who don’t give a flying kitten if a player leaves” can’t stop for once to think about the “why” of megaserver.

I never said I don’t give a kitten if a player leaves. But if I see a player posting a leaving thread that I think unreasonable, then what can I do. I saw a guy leaving because there are no mounts in this game. Okay. What should I do? There were never supposed to be mounts in this game.

I’ve already expressed sympathy for the OP. I feel bad that he feels cheated. I also feel he should have requested a refund from customer service. I’m almost positive he would have gotten it. I mean after all, he bought something with real money for which the functionality changed. There’s no reason not to give him that refund.

I believe the OP is posting about it because of the pent up frustration of long weeks of holding it in.

But I didn’t just send the OP off with a derisive wave of my hand. We’ve been in contact with each other and talking it through.

Not all fan boys are happy to see people leave and I said, and like I said earlier in the thread, I do sympathize with the OP.

Selene.9415:

Vayne.8563:

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I have 8 level 80 chars, I have been playing since pre-release.

Since the feature update I have been thinking of buying me another character slot becouse it looks fun and exiting to level up now as I look when my girlfriend levels one of her alts. And honestly I am going to buy myself a new char spot today, so I guess I am not a Veteran since all veterans are upset with this update.

It’s worth it. I’m having a blast leveling now. The amount of unlocks and just seeing what they did with the system is great.

I’m curious, do you think you’ll still be having fun doing it your second or third time around, when you know what to expect?

Sure because I spent an hour or two at low levels, but I just leveled to 55 and got a nice rare piece that I didn’t have.

Most of these complaints seem to be about the skill unlocks which are done fairly early. The entire leveling experience has been redone.

I prefer the stories this way, since I can do them in blocks with no leveling interruptions.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Vayne.8563:

The leveling is really really fast. You actually unlock the weapon skills almost as fast, because it’s automatic by level now. So if you go to a weapon you never used at 20 all your skills are unlocked automatically. And the 1-15 level experience has been greatly accelerated.

I don’t know if I like that as much, theoretically the idea is you are getting used to the weapon and learning “new tricks” to use with them. The idea of instant expertise always sort of bugged me a bit when compared to how we got weapon skills before (i.e., go to a low level event and just hit things).

That’s a fair point. The other point is, if you’re leveling alts, it shouldn’t matter nearly as much. The idea is to make it slower to get new ideas going as you level. By the time you’re 25-30, putting in a new weapon shouldn’t be a big problem.

My big thing is that I feel more rewarded for doing it. I just hit level 55 on a character and got a choice from 3 different rare items to choose, so I upgraded my coat. It felt really good.

ipan.4356:

JackDaniels.1697:

So let me get this straight, veteran players have been wanting more hardcore content implemented to this game because they felt that it is too casual and that it didn’t feel challenging enough, that it was too faceroll, and that progression didn’t feel all that good because you got pretty much everything from the start.

So while they didn’t get level 80 endgame content, they did get early game stuff that gives you that progression, that gives you that challenge because you don’t get most of your traits and skills so early on. The game is still casual, but you can’t faceroll through content anymore, at least not early on.

So while it’s not the dungeons and more world bosses made into challenging behemoths, they did so with the leveling and the system they’ve put in place.

It really is all about perspective, and people just don’t seem to understand that they got what they wanted, but just because it’s not in a place where they expected it to be, they think it’s all wrong.

The game has become more challenging in this area, so open your eyes and appreciate it, because this is what you were looking for.

I really am buffled why veteran players complain that leveling is too hard now, when you want more hard kitten in this game…

Anet can’t win.

Ummm, early game content isn’t going to be any more challenging – just more tedious, more of a chore.

Except I don’t find it more tedious. I found it faster.

Fill out a support ticket, the forums will get you nothing.

http://support.guildwars2.com

fantasy.8395:

This patch has left me bewildered, not only do I have to redo all my specs on several of my characters I have to now relearn how each one plays with the new changes…

I rather not even comment on what they did to weapon skill and low level locking, which I might add will keep me from wanting to level another character anytime in the near future.

The leveling is really really fast. You actually unlock the weapon skills almost as fast, because it’s automatic by level now. So if you go to a weapon you never used at 20 all your skills are unlocked automatically. And the 1-15 level experience has been greatly accelerated.

As for relearning characters, this is a standard fare in MMOs. If the company doesn’t shake up the meta, it get’s stale. People are complaining they don’t do it often enough.

This isn’t the customer service forum. If you’re looking for a refund this isn’t where you’ll get it. Have you looked in your old collections tab?

BeardMonk.1749:

The sad thing is that with nearly 200 posts in such a short period of time, mostly negative, ANet will prob take no action.

Because 200 posts don’t mean that much in the larger scheme of things. And how many of those two hundred posts are by the same 20 people?

Wiara.4236:

I made my 5th character yesterday and I am completely hating the experience of leveling, I will not make any more alts now ever, the game is now so tedious no one will ever want to make a new character. Well done Anet you just killed the life expectancy of your player base…

On another note the content guide is the most annoying and intrusive feature they have ever added. All it will do now is cause massive zergs at each event. Far worse than before when we just map chatted important events. Also on top of that I am level 80 running around having markers and flashing signs telling me to go to event… I want my freedom back or at least the option to turn off Events Guide & Keep: Personal Story & Mapping Exploring hints for my account.

Anet stop telling us how to play your game to the very last detail… like which events to do… and let us play it. It’s supposed to be “Our Story”

You can turn off the content guide completely or adjust it with different options. Check the first page of the options panel.

You should be able to get into your bank right away.

jonoth.2308:

Paradox.1380:

i’m confused? It took me maybe 30 minutes max to hit level ten (the level at which at you unlock all your basic weapon skills) getting to 15 where the rest of it and a utility unlock took me another 20ish minute because the way the personal story steps are now that got me almost all the way to 15, and finishing dailies pushed me over. I had no problems with this system at all and the best part is I don’t have to go back and kill 20-30 monsters for every weapon. I just go and they are all unlocked.

The thing is, for me at least, the time it takes to get from point A to point B isn’t an issue. Whether I actually enjoy getting from A to B is. So by spacing out the story elements more, and taking away the discovery aspect of a new class’ weapon skills, it means that rather than doing something continuously engaging from the start, it’s all tedium. I’d gladly accept slower leveling on the condition that it’s fun and interesting leveling.

The personal story is one of the weakest aspects of this game. It’s been said time and time ago by many people. I don’t think the story itself is weak (though it is uneven in places) but I do believe that it was let down by the fact that the story is told in 10 level incriments and that you have to keep interupting your story to level a bit.

That’s something that doesn’t happen now. You get a contiguous story arc that you can play through with no interruptions.

This improved the story for me.

Varakkys.2490:

Paradox.1380:

i’m confused? It took me maybe 30 minutes max to hit level ten (the level at which at you unlock all your basic weapon skills) getting to 15 where the rest of it and a utility unlock took me another 20ish minute because the way the personal story steps are now that got me almost all the way to 15, and finishing dailies pushed me over. I had no problems with this system at all and the best part is I don’t have to go back and kill 20-30 monsters for every weapon. I just go and they are all unlocked.

30 minutes, huh? I just spent 20 minutes on a new warrior, and I’ve just hit level 4. 20 minutes of utter boredom, where every fight consists of pressing 2, then 1, then waiting. Not a single weapon or armour drop, and the only usable quest reward being… another almost identical sword, which doesn’t give me any extra power until offhand weapon unlocks in 3 more levels.

A assume your’e grinding or not doing events, because every heart fills the bar about 33%. Three hearts gives you a level. With events in the mix, you go up very fast. I’ll test it on a warrior later. It’s certainly faster on my ranger.

EdgarMTanaka.7291:

I have 8 level 80 chars, I have been playing since pre-release.

Since the feature update I have been thinking of buying me another character slot becouse it looks fun and exiting to level up now as I look when my girlfriend levels one of her alts. And honestly I am going to buy myself a new char spot today, so I guess I am not a Veteran since all veterans are upset with this update.

It’s worth it. I’m having a blast leveling now. The amount of unlocks and just seeing what they did with the system is great.

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

Lostwingman.5034:

Vayne.8563:

MikaHR.1978:

Actually, many “vets” should probably make new character and go through new tutorials (from my ingame experience).

So yeah, theres that.

I wasn’t going to say this, but it’s not untrue. There are a lot of 80s out there who really didn’t learn how to play the game that well.

Not to say having the new system would have definitely helped…but I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t hurt.

The problem is the new systems teaches NOTHING. It just prevents you from using your skills until you’ve ground for them. If they couldn’t learn this stuff leveling to 80 then extending the grind isn’t going to help either. This new system is dumb.

I’m not quite sure this is true. The new system certainly teaches you nothing, because presumably you’ve been playing for a while. But a lot of this has to do with how people learn.

Take the example everyone is using, the downed state.

Now when downed state is first experienced in the old system, it’s almost always when you’re learning five, ten, a dozen other things. It comes often out of nowhere, you’re in combat, and you’re clicking really fast in a panic or many are. There’s no real time to stop and digest the skills and if there was, there’s still so much going on in those first levels in the old system, you might not retain most of it.

Now it’s a level unlock that Anet calls attention to.

Do you know, I’ve run into several people that don’t know that the 4th skill in the down ed state gets interrupted if you attack. If you’re healing and no one is attacking you and you hit any other downed skill, you interrupt your own heal. Many people don’t realize this.

But if the downed state is isolated and people can watch for it, it doesn’t come as quite a surprise and maybe, just maybe, they realize it’s more than just hitting buttons. Not all people, but some people.

I think not giving some people everything all at once is a blessing. I have a friend from DDO who I tried to get into Guild Wars 2, he bought the game a long time ago and never played, because he felt overwhelmed by it.

But he can play DDO just fine.

Still doesn’t have to be a kittened level lock system. Why can’t it be a competency system? They apparently understand that concept since they did it for dodge. I don’t want to have to be railroaded into doing a bunch of slow hearts (always the most boring part of this game) just so I can use weapon skills. It should just put you into competency checks. “Do this to move onto the next part”. People who have trouble with it will have to complete it before they go on and people who have done this kitten a million times can breeze through it and not be impeded. Wow, amazing, 4:30am and I can come up with a better system. This is just lazy implementation. Even if, even if you wanted to go with this system, why the hell is it still railroading older players into playing a bunch of grind content before they actually can play their characters? It makes no sense, unless you realize it was lazy implementation.

Ah the old lazy implementation argument. Do you realize how much work went into these changes? This was probably more work than anything Anet could have done. They’ve completely altered the first starting zones including hearts, adding tutorial stuff, adding tips, changing rewards. They could have just done a quick tutorial. That would have been lazy.

I don’t get why people call a change lazy that took more work than anyone would have thought they’d put into it in the first place.

The system is only a grind if you choose to see it as such. It’s so fast to level it’s silly.

What I meant was that it was a lazy concept. The simplest way isn’t always the easiest and the best way isn’t always the hardest. Simple demonstrations of the skills and mechanics would have done far and away more good. For down state you could have a to be in an instance and from an npc’s perspective, the down state is shown, the action paused with tooltips that you have to click through that highlight what each skill does and small bits and pieces. You can choose to replay. Now, which sounds like less work. A cut scene type event in an instance or having to rework kittening everything when it comes to leveling?

I’m pretty sure that Anet said they tested this with different methods and this was the one they found that was most effective.

DeWolfe.2174:

Vayne.8563:

snip

Still explains next to nothing. People learn by doing. Gating isn’t going to get them to learn any faster. A better idea would be to have everyone start as a spirit in the mist to learn a little about Tyria, what the races are, then movements, and combat mechanics. Then after this tutorial phase, be born into Tyria if you will. Even now, if you’ve never played an MMO, you’re going to be a bit lost. So I’d say the changes shackled existing players, while maybe helping a bit the few new players.

Everyone learns differently. Some people learn by doing. Some people learn by watching. Some people get inundated more easily than others. If you’re the type of person who doesn’t it’s sometimes hard to understand how some people do. This particularly happens when people are out of their comfort zone.

I’m not saying the leveling hasn’t changed. I’m saying it’s not nearly the big deal people are making it out to be, and certainly not the first 15 levels.

Hell people have found a way to key farm already.

I’m not thinking it’s that bad a change.

I would NOT be averse to a toggle to turn it off, however.