You know, this is kind of hilarious to what this has turned into. I made this as nothing more than checking a conclusion in the hopes I was wrong. I felt like I was cheating people with unfair prices. But with that said, my last post here to get stuff out.
I do want to apologize for my first comments, I took it too personally and should have made it clear that this was purely based on MY station in an economy, I would have likely been more agreeable if I fit what the ‘normal’ market trader does. But the post was me taking his comments on a personal level, and not making my point more clear, a problem I have a lot lately. However, I -was- personally attacked, and have been sense then, when you called an idiot and your ideas shunted, I don’t think you sit back and say nothing.
Oh and, to someone question earlier, if someone comes to me willing to pay a gouging price because hes accepted ‘there no other way, i just have to grin and bear it’ and I make him pay a purposely gouged price, then yes, can be cheating him(even there’s nothing illicit going on)
Also, cormac, the silver dabloon example is….sadly a price I won’t complain about. The issue here is the thing is basically impossible to get, its a lack of supply and gigantic demand. In fact, the mod reading this should probably inform the design team to add it as a drop to a few bags so people can get these items by themselves.
Finally, let me make something clear, THIS IS NOT SOME BASIS IN ALTRUISM. I do feel like some items I can’t sell, because the prices are too bloated. Thats not being some grand hero, thats me being uncomfortable and feeling like I’m cheating. It’s more akin to refusing to use a memory hacker for free gold, just because everyone else is. I feel bad cheating the game and people, if that means I can’t trade that item…oh well. I don’t get how people think, ‘i dont want to cheat’ somehow turns to being a grand ‘hero of the people’
And smith, this is where you and me disagree. You’re system does have a very serious flaw, it can’t adapt if the market changes and people like me arent comfortable going by old standards.
I do not have the same reasoning, situation, availability, location, or temporment, to many of the reasons for pricing that people set here. As such, my laws of pricing will be drastically different, some items(like armor/weapons) a bit more expensive, while the junk trophies worth little to nothing, with scale to consider the difficulty of level. The problem is, if the prices are set in stone by a bunch of precious transaction, the market is unable to change, because the people like me who aren’t comfortable with selling on these levels, have no means of influencing it.
Look, I get what you’re saying, and yes, there can some market problems(especially market dumping and scams) when given absolute freedom. But that’s going to happen, and being so afraid of market flops and economic changes that you disallow people to sell as they need to, just make a stagnant boring market that hardly ever changes. You’re defense has started to show the goal here to be way too stagnant and overly controlled, simply as a mean to stop market crashing. If you wanna kill trading to stop scammers, you’re already pushing it, but…this? How can I effect the market if it feels like I’m memory hacking anytime I use it.
All I was hoping for was the ability to set my own price, for my reasons. Is that really so bad?
(edited by VideoGamermike.5813)
I’m not going to spend all day reading this argument but…let me, pry to you why i stopped playing MMOs for a while.
I -hates- the trinity, with a passion. I hated the idea of being forced into a stereotype position where my only idea’s didnt exist. I stopped playing MS in end not because of arguments, but because I got tired of being called an idiot for not biulding my warrior for pure strength. I still think that ‘build’ idea is terrible, but they were half right, I was going to be a pure strength build no matter what I wanted. That followed in every, single, MMO, and I got tired of being pushed into stereotypes so extreme. Even DnD did this, do you have any idea how boring it was to be pushed into a spell slinger that never fought at .blank and depended on everyone -else- for damage? (this was in 2nd edition BTW.)
I bought GW2 because it had the balls to stand up and say “I’m going to let people play the way they want, without being restricted to those builds”(not an actual quote). I was and still am excited to see the AMAZING amount of different builds and ideas that GW2 can do. I feel like I’m actually fighting again, making real styles and real ideas, and real character who understand those style. There more passion and imagination than the sets the holy trinity have.
thats my 2 cents, take it as you will. also, ladyhellfire makes good points, as any class I can play however I want, in -any- class. I’m restricted by the style of how I fight, not on a single idea a designer thought of.
Great you guys agree. As a melee you have to work and as a ranged you have to camp. So theres is melee punishing. I’m satisfied.
Actually I am of the mindset that ranged dps needs a very large buff to compete with melee since the penalty for melee is pretty much non existent with the current combat system and mechanics.
Theres also the issues of multi vs single target, range damage is perfectly balance if you have room to snipe, but if your fighting mid-range or the enemy has a way to leap toward you, your range is pretty useless. The range certainly deserves a damage cut for basic attacks, but take the third skill in the mesmer’s greatsword line. That energy greatsword does almost nothing in the end. I’m in not big hurry, but it is noticable in a number of skills
Well…thats basically a “never use this place again.”
Seriously this is insane, the only salvage you can get from this thing is a copper ore, and the item itself is the single most common salvage item I have gotten in this game(I’ve been to four started areas now,) how an item can be worth three times the cost of what you get from salvaging it is beyond me.But yeah, I am not going to use a system where I am forced to sell for some insane overinflated BS price just because, thats both a terrible economy, and something I don’t plan on participating in.
Hey Videogamermike, not sure if you know me, but I’m John Smith and I’m the Economist here at Guild Wars 2. I think I may be able to explain some of your confusion.
It sounds like what you’re thinking about is the Labor Theory of Value, which is essentially an item’s value is defined by how long it takes to make or get. This is not an invalid theory, but it usually only holds up when the item in question doesn’t have substitutes or alternatives. In GW2, many of the items can be converted into another item and many of the items have multiple conversion into themselves. This means that there a many alternative ways to obtain a single item. This means that the value of all these items will be determined by the market, not by the value of labor since there isn’t a single value of labor involved.
Gives a standing Applause my god, someone who bothers to make argument without insulting people.
Sarcasm aside I do appreciate what you’re saying, and normally I understand market value, especially in a lot of items that dont have a specific use or price to them, like say cosmetics. Honestly, I didn’t know what the laber theory was, so this was a veyr interesting thing to research. But I think the point has been missed, though to be fair partly out of my own reaction.
I’m not angry about the economy. In fact, I don’t care about the price, at all, it’s worthless for me so I’ll just save my money and get it myself. The cost of quick jumps across Tyria is smaller than what I would have to pay in market(so to speak.) No, what I’m frustrated at, is what I’m forced to do.
These are items I’m more or less just throwing away as junk half the time, I wanted to put them in the market because there are likely players who aren’t a bit overstocked in copper like I am, so I figured I could throw out some cheap salvage for people who needed them, while still making a handy profit, a lot more than I would get in shops. Instead, I got pushed to sell my items at prices that in no way reflect that idea, or even how I got it. I feel like I’m being pushed into cheating people out of their money by means of ‘market value.’ THATS where my problem is, for those people who arent able to get many of those items and -only- get them from the market, yes, the market value is by essence, the only way they can think about a profit, but thats not me. I’m out getting these items, it takes no effort at all to get these items, there more or less -trash- to me.
See what I’m getting at? why should I be forced to sell at these prices when, I’m so far removed from the -reasons- for those prices, that I’m jsut robbing people blind. I feel like I’m cheating the game, myself, and others…because the market value says so. -thats- my problem. If I’m underselling because I want to..why not? Are we that afraid people purposely collapsing a market that we end up not letting people make what they consider to be fair trades? I don’t transmute my items, I dont need to, see where I’m getting at?
But I digress, thank you for the actual response, I just wish some of the players would have done so…rather than just insult me with on sentence…why even post if that’s all you’re going to do.
Pelion, -you- dont understand basic economics. Economics isn’t about finding the absolute max you can make a profit on, thats not how real trade works, despite what some fools may think.
1) Jute scrapes worth 95 copper? come on man, thats completely ridiculous, I can get 20 of those in 20 minutes, and you wanna justify that price? give me a break. Copper you might be able to justify as 30+ bronze because its time based and thusly more limited, but 95 is just insane.
2) Now, let me give you the most basic thing you can get. ITEMS PRICES ARE BASED ON THE COST IT HAS TO GET THEM, NOT MARKET VALUE. Market value is a good indicator, not a price point. Jutes are not that rare, they can be made form a ton of the most common items in the entire game. The salvage trophies that have these are enormously common, I have salavaged more copper from shredded garments than I have harvested(not included copper veins.)
Now, since jute scraps are gotton from salavage, their price should be based on what they are refined from, not the other way around. (B in this case is a more refined form of A, so A is the price setter, not B ) So…what would you charge for one of the most common item in the game? Do I need to keep going. Again, this item is so easy to get, no one in their right mind would feel -good- selling this thing.
So yes, You’ll forgive me if I take my common sense, critical thinking, and knowledge of market that understands what market value actually is(NOT a price setter), somewhere where I don’t have to feel guilty everytime I sell something.
Well…thats basically a “never use this place again.”
Seriously this is insane, the only salvage you can get from this thing is a copper ore, and the item itself is the single most common salvage item I have gotten in this game(I’ve been to four started areas now,) how an item can be worth three times the cost of what you get from salvaging it is beyond me.
But yeah, I am not going to use a system where I am forced to sell for some insane overinflated BS price just because, thats both a terrible economy, and something I don’t plan on participating in.
proceeds to grab a butterfly, eat cheese, then throw skittles at you using the butterflies PK
EAT LUKE WARM SKITTLE YOU THEIVES
I’ve been getting into selling at the trading post, and find a few items are so stupidly expensive(or stupidly cheap) I refuse to sell at those prices. (I.E I wont sell a shredsd rag for over a silver, thats ridiculous, as is a Cinnamon stick for 2 bronze) But when I go to set my own price and hit sell, it just sells at market value. Is this suppose to happen? I don’t want to sell at these insane values, so whats going on, why wont my custom value do anything?
I can’t believe I didn’t think of this sooner but. I’m starting to get into crafting more masterwork quality weapons and I thought of this little question. Why do I have to depend on an out of game Wiki to find these materials?
Yah, kind of odd. Almost every non MMO can afford a monster list with stats and drops, ok sure, we don’t need to know stats, but recording the monster drops would be nice. I would love to look into the monsters in my area(or in all areas if possible) and find which ones drop the items I want. The wiki may be good enough for now, buts its not very comprehensive and has no in-game evidence other than experience. I don’t like guessing in this kind of crafting system and an in-game list of drops would be a life-saver here (in a more metaphysical sense).
applauds Daddy now THAT would work. It still has the control ides without the insane micromanaging, even if it is still a bit too micromanagy.
I’m not 100% aware of the details behind conditions, but…wouldnt it be possible to keep track of just ONe condition and only have it overwrite when the ONe condition is outbeaten in damage/duration (or some other similar precedence system)?
ah ok, I can see where people get the Bias on warriors, but It would be a bit worrying if the Dev’s had that kind of clear bias
Rezzing does seem a bit fast, I’ve been able to revive my ally while under fire from 6 people. That seems a bit unfair to say the least. there is a balance you need between being able to revive fast enough to get out of a bad situation, but it does seem a bit overkill.
But that being said, finding that balance is very hard, and while rallying can be a problem thats complex to fix, remaking that balance is just as hard. Right now I’d liek to see the Bias on warriors that seems to exist before I trust the team with this.
It seems to me like this isnt a GW2 problem…this is an MMO problem.
What I ekep seeing in these kinds of game, and It’s ironic im having this whole affair AGAIN, is this ridiculous love of stun, immunities, and healing. I was in The Black road on WC3, and finished a discussion with a group of people that had figured out builds that can make it so the enemies NEVER fight. How is that fun?
And yes, if stealth does allow you to heal, charge attacks, and still remain immune to EVERYTHING, thats ridiculous. Heck, just make him capable of being attacked if you can track him (like say a spy in TF2), and your better but….
I don’t know if this is just me, but….why do melee weapons have spread attacks anyway? Dont get me wrong a -little- spread is fine, but why can I hit five enemies at the same time, when the guy whos only 2 feet away can only hit once. Sure range has it’s bonuses’ but it’s not as though warriors cant cross that gap either. CC abilities should only be in the hands of people who put out risks to do so, warriors and guardians don’t fit the role of “slam everything in a 90 degree radius”
This is something I keep hearing, that the entire Development team all play warriors. thats find and dandy for their free time, but if your designing a game your passionate about, why only play ONE class? Sure I can understand not likeing certain stuff, I wouldnt play guardian Dev team or not, but only ONE profession? for most of the team? thats a bit worrysome.
If this is true, why hasn’t the dev team been told to reroll their classes for a while to deal with concerns from the running players, like elementalist, mesmer, and theif. It begs a great many quesitons in terms of bias
Whats wrong with depending on Allies to join you? Is the idea of it being controling by something other than you direct mouse so bad? I would say managing those AI, when to depend on them and when to shatter then is what makes this class fun to play.
But heres a problem you guys dont realize. Micromanaging. No one would play this new Mesmer because it have you constantly trying to control every tiny little thing to even make your skills work. It’s hard enough to time your dodges and evasions, as well as skills like block properly, now you want Mesmers to throw out complex mouse controls because of your dislike of anything not in 100% control? no thank you
You know this conversation is quite interesting, but how about we talk about warrior when NOT an elementalist? I keep seeing these arguments tied between warrior and elementalist, when its clear everyone agrees elementalist needs a buff period.
I see the main complaint isn’t with the damage or even the healing, its when the warrior has this untouchable healing, alongside the insane damage. One or the other seems fine, but not both
Roleplaying is in and of itself a kind of storytelling. The idea being you make a character, whatever that may be. you make their connections, there ideas, their personalities, their goals, ECT. And yes, this can include flat out making things up in Mythos, the only taboo(for obvious reason) is not altering what already exists. I.E, you can make up a fake relationship with an NPC no matter how deep, even make it become part of who she is, but dont add in that had this grand regret the mythos may or may not say she has.
But I digress. After making that character, you meet with groups of other players, and create stories together, developing your characters alongside eachother, making new idea,s evolving who they are, and solving person conflicts. The idea is to play as a “person” within the world, and keep…yourself, if you will, out of it. Acting as a character, not as a player.