Dagger necro has non-cleaving 130 range melee attacks. That is basically the most limiting attack in the game. If you as a guardian let a necro sit on you meleeing you to death I don’t really know what to tell you. It is like playing a thief with no mobility, less CC, no stealth and less burst. I.e. pretty underwhelming.
Just don’t stand there tanking damage and you’ll be fine.
This is not a fair debate as the implications vary massively and you have no sound comparison to use. IM saying that 42% more damage on the skill plus 350 Power and Condition Damage for a further 10 seconds is a much better buff then 20% life force.
Good lord it’s not a 42% increase. Some other guy explained this to you 5x in a row and you still don’t get it apparently.
It’s a 42% increase if you are a naked necromancer with no gear. But nobody is a naked necromancer with no gear.
If you are a normal condition spec necromancer it’s a 15% increase.
That’s not “cleaving” it’s just you misunderstanding how melee targeting works in this game. You don’t need to use tab at all.
You’re right he isn’t talking about cleaving but he’s right that dagger is targeted. IIRC at least, if you target something far away and then run right up to a mob and use dagger 1 you won’t hit it. I think dagger 1 behaves like a 130 range ranged attack, not like a melee ability, because it doesn’t cleave either as already discussed.
Quickness HB is a dumb combo and needs to be removed. Actually quickness is a dumb boon and needs to be removed.
If that happened 90% of the crying about thieves and warriors would stop.
Your defintion makes little sense. A bunker is something you hunker down in to weather out a prolonged attack. Not a one use shield.
Strength (30% chance on crit to apply might), Frailty (30% chance on crit to apply vulnerability), Purity (60% chance on crit to remove a condition). Usually run axe/focus/staff or axe/dagger/staff – this is mainly for running with buddies in WvW or hitting dungeons, I can stack so much vulnerability and might in my build, it’s nuts.
Or you could be an engi and stack 25 stacks of aoe vuln in about 5 seconds and lots of aoe might as well.
IIRC necro dagger is the only melee weapon set that doesn’t cleave OR have added range. It is really the worst of the worst. In PVE it is awful for that reason for everything but killing one individual mob at a time.
Quickness is obviously a bad mechanism. What is amazing is that it made it this far. A 100% damage increase from one ability is never going to be good for balance.
Dagger either needs to cleave or it needs 300 MH range so you can damage with it while out of strict melee range like an elementalist can. Having neither makes it of very limited usefulness.
10 stacks of might is like a 15% boost to bleed damage. It is really not that great.
The recent patch fixed this for most dagger specs (for ele for example) but not for necro, for some inexplicable reason.
The big problem is necros only have one damaging condition. Give necros burning too and it would be very different 1v1.
Bad change that does very little to address the fundamental problems with the class. One of those changes that really makes you wonder what the devs are thinking.
Nerfing retaliation is a decent first step but it doesn’t really address many of the fundamental issues with PVP right now. In the short term it just skews things even more towards thieves and mesmers.
Uh that isn’t your only source of retaliation. Retaliation is just a bad concept. It should be very short duration and should reflect back 100% of the damage done for that very short duration. Not be a long term passive reflect that takes no thought on anyone’s part.
Some of the dungeons require a fair bit of fine motor control too. Obviously if a game is the sort of game that requires fine motor control there just isn’t much you can do. GW2 is that sort of game, at least in parts. That isn’t going to change.
That said, vistas seem like they are a bit out of place since to be blunt about it non-vista map completion can be done by anyone. The rest of the map completion game requires zero reflexes and zero thinking. So it does seem a bit odd that they require vistas as well. They should probably be split off from the normal map completion and give their own rewards.
There’s no real solution except finding a way to bring more servers up. As long as there’s only 4 top tier servers this pattern is just going to constantly repeat itself.
Spectral walk doesn’t break roots. If you are currently spectrally walking you can teleport and if your teleport spot is out of it you won’t get rerooted.
Condition necro’s inability to kill inanimate objects…I’m talking about a Ranger’s root or a Centaur’s supply cart or a door or gate or what have you. My warrior one shots the stuff…and my necro can basically go afk while whacking away at it.
Also, THIS. For the love of god. This is one of those things that “makes sense” but is just not worth it from a QOL perspective. I don’t care if its weird that the weapon rack is bleeding (burning not so much). Just make it take bleed damage. Call it “structural damage” instead if you must. It really doesn’t matter. It is just not acceptable to have to wail on inanimate objects for 10x as long as a power class.
You could also just remove the cap and make epidemic and other condition transfers transfer a maximum of 25 stacks. That would be easy enough to change.
I think one compromise would be making it stack duration after 25 stacks. The math might be a little complicated though.
edit: Another option would be making each stack after 25 increase the damage of the first 25 stacks by 2% instead of adding a stack.
(edited by Yukishiro.8792)
The conceptual problem with adding a unique dot too is that because it would stack with everything else you would end up with higher total possible condition damage. Which would have wideranging balance implications.
The problem I see with necros is a lack of 1v1 condition dps. In group combat we bring enough to the table with things like epidemic that I don’t see us really needing another condition that can be stacked. Burning is nice because it doesn’t stack intensity, so it gives us a good 1v1 boost without potentially overpowering the class in group v group like confusion or a new unique condition would.
And yes you can apply some of the other conditions via corrupt boon and using their own conditions against them via dagger4 and plague signet and some other skills. But that only works if the opponent is running a condition or boon build. Conditionmancer shouldn’t be effective ONLY against other boon or condition classes. That’s bad class design.
Uh that’s the point: initiative is poorly designed since it’s designed to be something where you trade off high current burst for running out later. That is just a bad system. It needs to be shifted to a system where dps is more steadily applied like other classes do.
Hard is good.
Its artificial difficulty that I am offended by.
By overloading a boss with HP, with one shots and so on.
Its not interesting mechanics and skill that overcomes him, its cheese and abuse.Its not a mistake or a lack of understanding that kills you, its artificial difficulty.
A boss with 50,000 HP is not in all cases more difficult than the same one which has 25,000 HP
Yep. As someoe who played in the top guild on my EQ server for years, there wasn’t much HARD about it. It just took a lot of time. Back in those days raid bosses didn’t even really have strategy. They were all basically the same: zerg with a bunch of people and hope things work out.
MMOs have never been hard. GW2 is substantially harder than most other MMOs, especially for dungeon content. It does do away with a lot of the pointless time sinks, though, and people flatter themselves that those make things more difficult.
Gold is the account wide currency. Karma is in contrast purely a currency intended to reflect the progress of your character. You really think ANet didn’t think this through?
This makes zero sense. It’s called KARMA. It seems naturally TAILORED to apply all your characters just based on the name. The whole idea of the word is something that carries on from lifetime to lifetime.
The loot side of it is sorta silly to complain about. You hit the anti-farming code in Orr so quickittenhat nobody is getting much loot.
But the big zerg killing mobs within .2 seconds of them appearing is definitely lame and broken and awful gameplay.
Unspecced DS is pretty much just useful for buying a few seconds. In 1v1 its use is pretty limited but I use it when I’m waiting for a key cooldown to recharge or something like that. In group situations it is more useful since it gives you a few second to get bailed out by a friend.
re: increasing the bleed limits just for necros: I don’t think there’s any way they could make that work with other peoples’ bleeds. I think a second damaging condition is the easier and more logical option. Burning is ideal because it doesn’t buff the class dramatically in group combat where it already does fine.
Premade v premade queues for tpvp is a reasonable suggestion. As such you will find a lot of people opposed to it for no good reason.
It’s not that the design of the thief means spamming is BETTER. It’s that it encourages spamming by rewarding it even when the player is bad.
But initiative is broken way beyond that. It’s just a badly conceived system. A system which gives the thief very large burst for a short time followed by relatively little burst naturally overpowers the thief in 1v1 fights and underpowers them in group fights. If you balance to group fights they end up gibbing people too fast in solo fights, and if you balance to solo fights they are kitten in group combat.
There’s no way to really balance a system like that in PVP.
Least played class is the Necromancer. This comes to no surprise because every is saying that they are no good.
Highest average score per player is the Necromancer Wait what? I thought they were no good? and yet they have an average of 127. The next highest is the Thief coming in at 113.
This is fairly easily explained: the few necros playing tend to be good. You barely ever see bad players playing necro because it is not very rewarding for a bad player. It is basically the inverse of your mesmer analysis.
Also points are generally skewed towards classes with AOE and necros have good AOE. Which probably explains a portion of the inflated score.
Retal is just a bad mechanic right now. The flat damage makes very little sense because it makes it extremely powerful in some situations and very weak in others. It means something like a shortbow ranger blows themselves up in seconds against retal whereas a class like ele barely feels it.
It could make sense as a very short duration boon which hits back for 50-100% of the damage done to you. But not as an effectively 100% uptime ability on one class.
You’re not thinking big enough. I cast my vote for deadly pitfalls. Right next to the central cap point.
Yeah because that worked out so well in WAR. Oh wait, no.
At the very least if they introduce environmental hazards they’d have to normalize access to knockbacks and stability across classes.
The problem with thieves is the mechanic encourages button mashing and doesn’t really have a tradeoff in 1v1 because talents allow you to basically ignore the cost of spamming abilities for long enough to kill anyone in almost any circumstances.
There’s a reason the whines about thief are mostly 1v1. The class mechanic is just badly set up. I am not sure there is much that can be done to fix it because it’s fundamentally badly thought out. The only real solution is to do what wow did and slowly move the thief away from a meaningful initiative system and towards more stable, less bursty dps.
I really think a second damaging condition is all necros need to be balanced. Necros are already good in a group situation, they just struggle to put out enough dps to be a threat to anyone in 1v1 in an organized setting where backup arrives in ~20 seconds and if you don’t get a kill by then you won’t get a kill.
If necros had access to burning that would be another what, 1kish dps? With 50% uptime that’s another 500 dps or 10k damage over 20 seconds. About enough to take necro from “annoying but not going to kill you” to “this guy might actually take me out before my backup arrives.”
It would also be another condition to put on guardians and therefore would make conditionmancers natural guardian killers. Conditionmancer is also generally strong (comparatively speaking) against mesmer due to all your aoe and condition reflection, and decent against thief due to high hp, DS and thief condition removal being generally pretty poor. Necros could therefore be used to soft counter the overprevalence of those three classes perhaps without the need for more serious nerfs to them.
The more I think about it the more I think necros are the key. All of GW2’s most glaring balance problems seem to be entertwined with necros being unattractive and underplayed.
(edited by Yukishiro.8792)
Condition Necro counters the majority of Guardian builds, especially the tanky retaliation one.
Basically, bring conditions and boons removal.
As stated above, no it doesn’t. Conditionancer shuts down guardians well, but it can’t kill them on its own in a decent amount of time.
Right now the only counter to bunker guardian is 1 conditionmancer + 1 high dps class. Until conditionmancer gets a second damaging condition and therefore the ability to do anything besides shut down one class it is gonna be underplayed and therefore guardians are going to stay the top of the pile.
Burn is the most logical choice here since it doesn’t add much to conditionmancer’s power in group situations where conditionmancer is already strong enough. Butwith access to burn a conditionmancer can actually hope to kill someone 1v1 in a decent amount of time like other DPS classes can. Trying to 1v1 someone with just bleed takes far too long and you’ll hardly ever kill someone before backup arrives. It makes the class much too dependent on having a partner to do the damage for you.
Another possibility would be to take the talent that makes fear do damage and replace it and/or augment it with a talent that makes chill do damage. Call it “Frostbite” or something like that. Have the calculation be about 75% of the damage of burning.
I agree that the reason necros don’t have more than one damaging condition (poison doesn’t count) is the idea that you’re supposed to use conditions against your opponent. But in practice that just doesn’t work. Especially when the most common damage condition, and the one found on the most non-condition builds, is bleed, which you already have.
Necros right now are too shoehorned into countering boon classes and conditon spec classes. They will struggle to find a role until they’re given a second damaging condition and therefore an ability to be a threat to power builds as well.
I have a thread in the necro forums about it. I would learn towards burning instead though because conditionmancer’s problems are 1v1 not group. Confusion as a practical matter never reaches max stacks so if you gave confusion to condimancer it would probably be too powerful in group play. Burning on the other hand does awesome 1v1 damage but stacks duration instead of strength, therefore making it less of a group balance issue since you may already have it.
In terms of what conditionmancer really needs burning seems like a better fit.
Yeah sure. Oh wait, no. Both tomes on Guardians > Moa
Thieve’s guild / Stone Wall > Moa (guaranteed backstab without even goin in stealth)
Ranger’s root > Moa
Supply Crate > Moa
You basically chose the Moa to “put out someone” out of the fight for 10 seconds. Right, as soon as someone is gettin transformed, the whole team come back on him, use tools, while the guy under the moa effect can still use 2 dodges and be affected by all the boons of his mates.
So yeah just wake up maybe
It’s not just moa. time warp is even more overtuned.
mesmer have not one but two overtuned elites. compared to most classes which have none. even thieves and guardians have only one elite that is particularly powerful.
the biggest problem is that a guardian’s natural and most dangerous enemy are necromancers
and necromancers are so utterly bugged, and even without they bugs they are so ridiculously underpowered and underwhelming at every-effing-thing but dealing with guardians, that practically noone plays them
so guardians dont have to worry about their natural counter, since there is none around the vast majority of the time
Didn’t read past this post because this person gets it.
The only thing necros do well in sPVP right now is counter guardians. And even that we don’t do a good job of 1v1. We shut down guardians extremely well but to kill them we need a partner who can actually dish out the dps.
Making necro a very frustrating class to play: you are only good at one thing and even that you need a friend t make it work right.
Bomb build is only good against noob melee. It may need adjusting at some point but at the moment having a build that can obliterate baddie FOTM thieves is probably good for the meta of the game.
The main niche I see for necro right now is shutting down guardian. Which in the current meta with every single team running a guardian isn’t all that bad. But what makes it problematic is although you can shut down a guardian very well, solo you can’t really kill them. I mean you can but it takes long enough that you can’t do it before they get backup. Meaning you are only really useful running with another class who can do the dps to bring down the guardian while you neutralize them.
Conditionmancer right now weak in 1v1 because it only has access to one damaging condition. Necro really needs access to either burning or confusion as well to make it decent at anything besides shutting down guardians in a group situation.
That graph is for the game in general not for sPVP where anyone who has played for even an hour or two notices Mesmers and Thieves make up about 50% of the total population.
It is ruining PVP right now. It doesn’t even really matter if mesmers and thieves really are OP or not. The game is not functioning well when 50% of sPVP players play two classes.
Mesmer elites are totally overtuned compared to elites other classes have (except MAYBE thieves guild…). There is just no arguing it. Whenever someone does it just shows they have no perspective at all.
It’s pretty pathetic, to be honest. I reported some of these bugs as far back as bwe1 and these same bugs were with us at launch and are still here. ArenaNet is putting forth minimum effort with fixing bugs, or bots, or gold spammers, or balance, or reworking dungeons.
I think they’re putting a fair amount of effort in but obviously their team is too small. They can only do so much with the amount of people they have.
I blame all the hackers. Scum of the earth basically trashed the game, and we’re still infested with botters and gold spammers out the whazoo. I swear, no matter which MMO I play, there they are. Like a shadow, and there’s always a street lamp somewhere, so there’s no escape. If they hadn’t brought their slimy taint to GW2, we’d have a lot more fixes in the game right now, I betcha.
They exist because it’s profitable. If normal players didn’t waste money buying their goods they wouldn’t exist. I mean they could sell through the ingame store but the profit margin on that is much lower because of the 15-30% cut Anet takes.
Uh epidemic has 1200 range if you think that’s short I dunno what to tell you really. The radius is also the largest of any aoe in the game IIRC. The bigger issue is the best necromaner bleed stackers have 900 range.
I’d like to see disease too but at this point they’re obviously not gonna add another condition to the game. It’d create too many issues.
Best we can really hope for is getting burning or confusion. Which conditionmancer really needs to be viable 1v1. A conditin build that has to rely on a single condition for almost all its damage is always going to struggle in 1v1 in a game where all other condition builds are built around having 2 or more damaging conditions up.