Guild Wars 2

Maor bags =/…

Celestial Amulet =D

Well, I use SnD, so I ALWAYS have a stun breaker =D

Also, btw, all of your stealth durations stack — Shadow Refuge stacks in a very odd way.. You can leave the are of shadow refuge and be in stealth, but only if you have 5 seconds left of stealth remaining while in shadow refuge. if you leave earlier than that, you will de-stealth. Also to note, you only get the ‘Revealed!" debuff if you attack in stealth. in sPvP i will commonly chain stealth to heal, by simply using Dagger 5 skill without attacking in stealth. (I’m traited for Regeneration in stealth, condition removal in stealth, and health regeneration in stealth (the 30pt one))

Oh, I might switch out the stealth trap for Ambush trap, that NPC theif is a kitten.

I do have a lvl 25 thief, but I’ve been playing thief extensively in sPvP and I think I’d know now what I’d rather use for PvE.

I’d probably just use s/p and s/d, with signet of Malice.
Pistol Whip from s/p does tons of AoE dmg, plus a ton of hits which will proc Signet of malice. In my utilites I’d be sure to have Blinding powder, Shadow Refuge, and the stealth trap.
The only trait I’d be for-sure to ahve is the 10 pt Shadow Arts one, that gives you regeneration whenever you stealth. So there you go, now you heal on every attack (and Pistol Whip does 8, I think) and whenever you stealth, which is all your utilities and whenever you switch to s/d and use 5.

Have you ever tried Runes of the Centaur, with Healing Signet or withdraw and 10 pts in Acrobatics for the vigor on heal?

Always Swiftness, Always dodge =D

^ build very obviously not for a bursty build.

Nice, that’s pretty much exactly what I’d been doing. I disliked the playstyle though, because if you fudge your opener, the whole thing just doesn’t work, and you become such an easy kill.

I 100%-0’d a necro doing this, although he very obviously had no investment in Toughness or Vitality.

This trick relies on shadowstepping, whether it’s from Steal, the signet, or whatever. Shadowstepping will not interrupt skills that are currently in animation or channeling. Cloak and Dagger (Dagger 5 skill) has a rather noticeable animation time before it actually hits, it takes a moment. Anyways, because of that casting time, you can begin to use CnD and then immediately Steal and you’ll step to the target, your CnD will hit and you’ll stealth.

Trait Steal to do dmg (it’s actually a fairly decent amount of dmg).

try out this combo.

Start channeling Cloak and Dagger -> Steal -> Backstab.

I’ve had some pretty decent success with this build. Any foe with 60% or under HP will probably die near instantly, but if they happen to evade when you steal it’ll fail miserably.

Just something to add to your repetoire of thief skills.

I put this in the bugs forum, but whenever you use this trait it will also consume your venom stacks. just fyi.

If you use Shadowstep underwater, and proceed to move onto shore, you will immediately shadowstap back into the water where you originally used it, no matter if you pressed it or not.

Really annoying, because of the very limited selection of skills underwater.

I believe Elementalists can easily surpass thieve’s in Mobility.. if they set it up right. Ride the Lightning is a ridiculous one itself, and they have more than a few speed boosts and godly condition removal.

So I’m like Deer 19 right now, and when I open deer chests I get 10-slot bags. The bags are actually a big reason why I’m devoting a lot of time to sPvP (also to learn the classes well), but I’d also like to know at what point you’d get 20-slot bags from sPvP, if you can get that high at all?

I couldn’t say so because my PvP chars don’t ever leave the mists. I never noticed the few times that my PvE chars went there for build tests.

Honestly, my fav Thief build is SnD, there’s so much more utility than the one trick pony that haste + PW is or haste + HS.

On a slightly related note, I was able to blow up any glass cannon with my thief build that used no quickness at all. All it was was a Cloak & Dagger, Steal (traited with dmg), and backstab.

I learned with shadowstepping that you can do it in the middle of an animation/channel and the animation/channel will continue to work, so if you start using CloakNdagger and then steal right afterwards, you’ll hit with stealth and then with CnD and go straight into stealth for a backstab.

Was fun, but was a useless build while steal was on CD. I guess in the meantime you could switch to SnP for pistol whipping, but that leaves you without a shortbow to deal with mesmers/minions/turrets/etc

It feels an aweful lot like P v NPC.

Elementals, Pets, Rock Dogs, Illusions, Phantasms, Random flying swords and hammers, Thieves guild… EDIT: Oh, Forgot them minions too. Poor Necro minions.

What gives? Why are there so many NPC’s in PvP? Does this really diversify PvP in a meaningful way?

jgowan.. there are numerous ways to block/evade all attacks for 3 seconds that someone can burst. What do they do then?

arheundel, the whirpool seems to actually fill a wider area in water than it does on land. it’s really easy to shut out other people from taking the ruins with that elite.

Hrm. Seems decent.

I think there would be a lot less Thief QQ if they fixed the rendering issues with stealth, where you are not immediately visible on the enemy’s screen when you attack from stealth.

I posted this under bugs forum but

Uncatchable Trait – Leaves caltrops when you dodge.

“When you apply venom, your next damaging skills, whether hits or misses, will consume the venom. I already don’t like that because of the massive ways to block/evade, Guardian Aegis makes it impossible to basilisk venom them if you prepared your venom in advance.

ANYWAYS, because “Uncatchable” makes you leave caltrops when you dodge, whenever you dodge you will lose your venom stacks. This seems wrong, this trait makes your venoms nearly useless because you lose the ability to dodge else you lose all your venoms.
"

Just use the golems in the mists. It’s a far better control.

I do disagree that ele’s downed is terrible 1v1. If you get eachother both in the downed state, ele will win every down vs down fight because their mist form heals them. that’s the only advantage there, though, and that assumes you down your opponent as well. in any situation where there are more than 1v1, ele downstate is absolutely horrible. An instant-cast root for ele 2 would make it way better, you’d actually get close to using 3 as every other class does. it still might be slightly weaker, but because their 3 is so strong it compensates.

You obviously have not seen them underwater using whirlpool. Also, refrain from using ‘crying’ because it’s not an accurate depiction at all of the situation and it just makes you look like a jerk.

Shukran.4851:

auhfel.4129:

Shukran.4851:

auhfel.4129:

I dunno about your condition removal comments.. I haven’t played every class extensively, but as a thief/elementalist/guardian, I’ve been able to remove conditions quite easily, repeatedly. Especially on the Thief.. So many condition removals.

thief:
infiltrator’s strike
shadowstep
healing
roll for initiative
??then??
half of them are stunbreak.

Shukran, I use the trait that removes a condition every 3 secs in stealth. Shadow refuge will remove all my conditions, blinding powder will remove one, dagger 5 will remove 1, etc. I use Sword/Dagger, my normal ‘combo’ will start off with a 2 to shadowstep to enemy, then a 5 to get into stealth. if at anypoint I get stunned I’ll 2 back.. my stealth will have removed 1 condition, the shadowstep return from 2 will have removed 1.

very interesting..
what is your role in team then?
i never found a good use of s/d build so im very interested .

I still build a lot of power for damage, but my team utility for s/d is immobilizing and crippling with 2 and 4 to secure kills, intterupting with the 2s daze from sword backstab skill, and removing boons with the s/d 3 skill. A guardian is wayyy easier to kill when you remove their retaliation and protection. I build lots of Vitality and Toughness, because you simply can’t live long enough in teamfights to help everyone. I use 30 pts in shadow arts for massive regen and extra stealth duration, I make it a point to rez other people while stealthed so the enemy doesn’t notice.

Scorpion Wire is amazing for stopping people from finishing others, and also for pulling people out of position for a kill. Shadow Refuge with shadow arts traits will heal your team a lot and provide for easier rez’s.

You can kill people with just the power from Knight’s amulet, but it does take awhile. Right now I’m using the Balthazar rune set for the 3s burn when using healing skill (I tested those runes, it’s actually like 5 seconds burn). I use Signet of Malice with the 20% cd reduction on it, so it because a ~4k heal ~ 2.3k aoe burning damage on 12 sec CD. because you lose the stealth on healing skill, you need to make sure you take stealths in utilities and make good use of dagger 5 stealth.

Rika.7249:

auhfel.4129:

Warrior can get just as much damage off by switching weapon sets. That stun doesn’t make much of a difference.. Infact, the warrior being able to bullcharge you and knock you down for 2 seconds is worse.

I also don’t agree with being revealed upon animation. It should only be revealed upon dealing damage. In most cases it does (for the thief, the target still won’t see you because of rendering issues). The rendering issue really needs to be adressed though because that does cause a major imbalance.

What do you propose is done about the rendering then. Revealing upon animation makes the thief visible earlier, while hardly anyone would be able to dodge it.

Furthermore, a miss in stealth just shouldn’t be given a second chance. Or a third. Or a seventh.

Rendering? It should be fixed, then. There are probably technical problems that cause it, and technical solutions to fix it. I’m not a programmer and I don’t know the code anyways, so I can’t tell you how to fix it.

Why should a miss in stealth matter? what makes the other person away of the thieve’s presence? it’s usually the damage, and that’s why they become revealed. Stealths don’t last forever anyways.. if you miss, you’re already not gonna have enough time to do another pistol whip chance because of it’s cast time. You could use another ability to stealth again, but then you’re blowing all your CD’s for one attack. Good luck getting away if you have no stealths up.

When you apply venom, your next damaging skills, whether hits or misses, will consume the venom. I already don’t like that because of the massive ways to block/evade, Guardian Aegis makes it impossible to basilisk venom them if you prepared your venom in advance.

ANYWAYS, because “Uncatchable” makes you leave caltrops when you dodge, whenever you dodge you will lose your venom stacks. This seems wrong, this trait makes your venoms nearly useless because you lose the ability to dodge else you lose all your venoms.

Shukran.4851:

auhfel.4129:

I dunno about your condition removal comments.. I haven’t played every class extensively, but as a thief/elementalist/guardian, I’ve been able to remove conditions quite easily, repeatedly. Especially on the Thief.. So many condition removals.

thief:
infiltrator’s strike
shadowstep
healing
roll for initiative
??then??
half of them are stunbreak.

Shukran, I use the trait that removes a condition every 3 secs in stealth. Shadow refuge will remove all my conditions, blinding powder will remove one, dagger 5 will remove 1, etc. I use Sword/Dagger, my normal ‘combo’ will start off with a 2 to shadowstep to enemy, then a 5 to get into stealth. if at anypoint I get stunned I’ll 2 back.. my stealth will have removed 1 condition, the shadowstep return from 2 will have removed 1.

Warrior can get just as much damage off by switching weapon sets. That stun doesn’t make much of a difference.. Infact, the warrior being able to bullcharge you and knock you down for 2 seconds is worse.

I also don’t agree with being revealed upon animation. It should only be revealed upon dealing damage. In most cases it does (for the thief, the target still won’t see you because of rendering issues). The rendering issue really needs to be adressed though because that does cause a major imbalance.

.. whats the difference between pistol whip and hundred blades? Not much, really. Quickness is definitly the issue, not pistol whip. It has a .5 second stun which is really used more as an interrupt than anything.. it has a longish cast time (takes a moment to hit with your pistol, then a moment to start channeling sword hits). The only issue right now is with stealth — For whatever reason, when you attack from stealth, you are not instantly revealed on the other person’s screen. So, for the time that you are starting to channel pistol whip you are not visible when you should be. Try using pistol whip out of stealth.. it’s incredibly hard to get all of the damage off.

I dunno about your condition removal comments.. I haven’t played every class extensively, but as a thief/elementalist/guardian, I’ve been able to remove conditions quite easily, repeatedly. Especially on the Thief.. So many condition removals.

Even then, it’s only an opinion of balance that you are pushing, without even providing insight. You simply said ‘No, you’re wrong, game is balanced’. No discussion at all. It’s easy to say the game is imbalanced because even the devs think so, nerfing heartseeker and even stating “we’re waiting for builds to develop so we can see what’s imbalanced”.

The game is still extremely new and, and when games are new they are the most imbalanced. It’s silly to think that the game would be even acceptably balanced at start — Games like WoW are still tweaked, and that’s been out forever now.

It’s more productive to talk about imbalances and flesh out changes for them rather than simply saying ‘No you’re wrong, game is balanced, that’s the truth’.

Glass cannon builds are not even that effective. Throw a Confusion or toss on a retaliation, and evade/block whenever quickness comes up.. You’re golden.

My post was no more belittling than yours was. I just don’t see why you are pushing so hard to argue that there is balance, when that’s just not attainable. It’d only be feasible if there was only 1 class, with no options to differ in skill or trait choices.

Ergo, with rogue I find there are far better ways to do things than heartseeker which I assusme you are talking about. Honestly, #2 sword is way more annoying. Shadowstep and immoblize.. if you ever get stunned, use it again and break the stun and get 1 condition removed..

But yes, you are right, I’m just adding a little detail.

Rika.. I just said there would never be balance.. Thanks for restating my statement.

On my Thief build I consistenly last for wayyy more than 30 seconds in a fight. I go for a tanky utility build though, no burst dmg. 19k hp, lots of armor, CC, lots of stealth. I usually just use my skills in sPvP to CC enemies, remove boons, heal/revive allies, etc. I rarely ever die. (I go with +regeneration while stealthed, +regeneration boon for 5 secs while stealthed, get Shadow Refuge, Blinding Powder, etc, and then Knight’s amulet for the power/tough/vitality).

Every time I Cloak from dagger 5 skill, I regen like 2.5-3k hp.

In duels (whenever I join a map and it’s like 1v1 or 2v2, I’ve had fights that go past 4 mins. I actually used Thieve’s Guild twice in one fight.. it’s 180 second cooldown.

yes, You can easily survive for more than 30 secs.. but you do have to build for it. Make sure you have a stun break, condition removals, and probably a way to heal other than your main heal skill, if it’s not up enough.

Things can be acceptable, but the game will never be balanced. They’ll just get as close to balanced as they can.

Rika, if there is any imbalance at all, then there is no balance at all.. Balance is kind of an absolute thing.

Shukran, I hate getting rapid shot by a ranger when I go into stealth.. because he will still hit me and see where I go for the entire duration of rapid shot.

That’s silly.

I don’t think it’s random.. but I haven’t yet discovered a metric for it.

I’d like to know as well.

I’ve had the issue on my thief using my #2 sword skill, but luckily I can shadow step back by using it again.

Hopefully they will just put it fixes so you can’t get stuck inside stuff while shadow stepping or teleporting.

Why are you guys complaining about being able to stealth while DoT’d? Stealth is completely different in this game. Sure, you can’t be seen when stealthed, but you will still get hit by ANYTHING while stealthed. You can be CC’d in stealth, everything still applies. If the thief gets rooted and he stealths, he’s still going to be rooted. Just keep on slashing and you’ll be fine.

If the thief couldn’t stealth while dotted, he would never be able to stealth with all the conditions being thrown around.

Just learn to keep swinging when the thief gets stealthed.

As for the original topic, yes, for some reasons thieves remain invisbile (not stealthed, simply not rendered) after attacking while in stealth.

Another note is that the Revealed debuff only occurs if you attack while in stealth. If you never hit in stealth with an attack, you won’t get the debuff when you come out of stealth.

Arheundel, I wouldn’t call that an exploit. That’s just bad mechanics on Anet’s side, all of the mobs near the lord should work as a team, like helping eachother out when one gets attacked.

For the Gate trick though (didn’t watch the vid, don’t want to know how to exploit it) that’s clearly not intended.

I dislike playing this map because thieves and ele’s are so strong underwater.

I play thief all the time, and being able to chain you #5 skill (evade all attacks for 3 seconds), dodge, and stealth, you become nigh invincible underwater. It depends on the thief’s build (more initiative means more invincible time), but it’s ridiculous. Yesterday I 1v3vSharks for the entire match as a thief, by chaining 5 with dodges, with stealth and steal (one enemy was a necro that gives me 4s AoE fear when I steal).

For elementalists, they simply have a larger amount of CC (getting bubbled up, stoned down, and then electrify stunned) and then an amazing elite that does insane AoE dmg for a long duration)

I know underwater combat isn’t balanced, but it’d be nice if we could see some changes in the skills that would make them more balanced. For instance, perhaps the thief’s 5 harpoon skill should evade 3 attacks, rather than evade all attacks for 3 seconds.

There are a few abilities that are very overpowered.

The Thief #5 skill, chained with dodge and stealth, makes it very easy to defend a point against incredible odds like 1v3vSharks.

The Elementalist Elite, Whirlpool or whatever, is ridiculously strong underwater.

yesterday in Capricorn I kept the underwater Ruins point uncontested for the ENTIRE match. I never killed anyone (it was 1v3) but I never died and they never took it. I got 0 points for the whole match, even though I kept 3 people busy at one point and let the rest of my team have free reign over ther other two. There definitly needs to be a mechanic to get points while keeping an area defended or contested (I realize this would take a lot of work because such a mechanic could easily be exploitable).

On being able to defend a point 1v3 underwater, thieves are incredibly strong underwater because they can chain evades for an enourmously long period of time. That’s a different topic.. if I ever go against an Ele or Thief underwater, I usually just leave.

I play thief a lot and have never really noticed this on myself (because it appears that you are visible) but when I play vs other thiefs and rangers and engineers, that certainly does seem to be the case. They’ll deal like 3 hits to me while still stealthed and don’t immediately become visible. I think it’s probably something to do with rendering delays when there are a lot of people on screen, as when I’m in PvE mobs are constantly invisible for a long time if there are too many mobs to render on the screen at once.

Only runes function like this by the way. Jewels, Sigls, Marks, all of those other upgrade components will stack with eachother.

(most all sigils stack in some way. Sigils that proc effects, like Sigil of Fire, air, and earth will not stack. Sigils that increase duration on conditions will stack.)