Guild Wars 2

Could someone please help me understand the introduction of Ascended items?

• GW2 loses market differentiation. Being grind-free (or grind-optional) was what drew many people to it. Now it’s just a generic grindy MMO that is actually very inadequate compared to the real grindy ones.

• Playerbase that does not want grind is alienated. This is unfortunately the loyal playerbase that would have ensured the longevity of the game because there are few alternatives available, and they were already enjoying what the game offered.

• Playerbase that wants grind will continue to want more grind and will continue to demand for higher and higher stats.

• The gem store sells cosmetic and convenience items. Presumably players who care about vanity items would be the ones that buy from the store. If gearscores become primary and cosmetics become secondary to the game—gem store loses out. Unless the store starts selling things like infusion boosters or Ascended-item-finder boosters. But this borders on being pay-to-win if infusion and Ascended items are necessary for completing Fractals.

• Doesn’t this drain players from all other areas? Level 80 players would be grinding Fractals non-stop because that’s where you get the high-end items. Fractals become the new Cursed Shore (omg Lost Shores, Cursed Shore, it all makes sense now). Dungeons and all other areas become obsolete. This is a drastic reduction of content, and doesn’t help in player retention.

I’m sure the developers have a good idea of why they are doing this, but I don’t, so could somebody please help me out? I love this game, but I don’t understand why they are doing this.

fellyn.5083:

Alice.8694:

Yes to a new gear rarity level.
Yes to a new gear rarity level with better stats.
Yes to a new and final level of the power plateau, until such time that the level cap is raised by an expansion.
Definitely No to a power creep gear treadmill.

I think you’ve got the right perspective. No where did Anet ever say exotics were intended to be the final tier of equipment. Especially considering all of this has likely been in the works for months, if not before the game was even released.

And where will this final tier of equipment ever end?

Some people are going to “provide vocal feedback” about the lack of an endgame a few weeks (or days) into the introduction of Ascended items.

“LFG level 80 warrior with full ascended”

Oh wait…

Jrunyon.3012:

Tosha Daydreamer.9251:

Jrunyon.3012:

Nope, youre killing this game for yourself. I guess you dont realize that the new gear, as far as I’ve read, will only impact your progression IN THE ACTUAL DUNGEON.

Please quote the sentence where they state those new stats will be dungeon-specific and that you can’t use the items in, let’s say, WvW.

I can’t seem to find it.

Aside from the +5 precision or whatever, youre not getting any benefits from using an ascended piece with an infusion, in fact it nerfs you since you cant apply runes to these ascended pieces.

You can’t apply runes, but the stats from runes are already added into the base stats of the Ascended items, in addition to the boost that Ascended items get over exotics.

The + to stats will add up over all the pieces of gear. Have you compared Yakkington’s Ring to the exotic ring carefully? You get:

• +5 power
• +5 precision
• +3% magic find.

That’s not trivial, and it will add up. Imagine that x12.

Alexander Dragonfang.1759:

And the worst of all is this.

After 2 weeks all the grindkittens will be asking for more grind again.

EXACTLY.

Seriously, nobody wins.

Arnath.2319:

The childish rants from the majority of you immature children can be summed up like this:

“I dont like gear treadmills and even tho Arenanet are not implementing a gear treadmill and have not once ever suggested that they will introduce a gear treadmill i am going to shout and scream in fear that someday they will introduce a gear treadmill despite no evidence suggesting so”

Ascended items are not a gear treadmill, people are complaining because this could lead to a gear treadmill even tho Arenanet has never suggested and has on many suggested shared there own disgust with gear treadmills.

Grow up all of you.

No.

If you read the forum posts properly, you would have realized these posters are ANYTHING but childish. They appreciate the original principles behind GW2, and they are staunch advocates of a no-grind game. That is not childishness.

The words may come off strong and the reactions may be passionate, but that is not childishness. This is a reasonable response to a drastic change in the principles of the game. In fact, most of the supporters of a gear treadmill-free game are:

• busy people
• competitive people who care more about skill than items.

That is not childishness.

Stormphoenix.4608:

The amount of butthurt on this thread is ludicrous. Stop waving your banners and screaming that AN has lied to you. They haven’t. They’ve filled in the gap between exotic and legendary in terms of effort. The items aren’t particularly powerful, and are only useful in the fractal dungeon (they don’t have runes slots and will never have rune slots)

It’s a good change, it gives players something to do when they are in their exotics and working on their legendary, and doesn’t disrupt the power balance in the slightest.

The problem is the items ARE more powerful. They have higher stats. They don’t have rune slots, but the stats from runes are already added to the base stats of the items. AND they have an addition infusion slot.

So far there has been no indication that these Ascended items are usable (or have their boosted stats apply) only in the Fractals.

No, I hate the new ascended items.

AcidicVision.5498:

We don’t know what their drop rates are. We don’t know how many chests are awarded in each of these dungeons/fragments. We don’t know if those drop rates increase in regard to the level you have reached in the dungeon so you are more likely to get one the closer you are to needing it.

But see, if the drop rates are high and it’s easy to get, players who WANT the gear treadmill would be clamoring for the next tier of items in a very short time. Even if drop rates are low, it only delays the inevitable request for the next tier.

This is what the treadmill is. It’s endless. And by adding a new tier just three months after release, they have begun the whole process.

I am very, very disheartened.

In the past, there had been occasional complaints from players who wanted a gear treadmill. Those threads usually had a mix of those who wanted and those who didn’t want it.

This has caused an uproar that I have never seen before, and it is overwhelmingly against Ascended items. There are a few who are pleased with it, but that is the extreme minority in this “vocal minority” of the forums. Even a few who have not posted in the forums before have come to voice their disappointment in Ascended items.

Please re-consider this new direction you’re taking the game.

Kimyrielle.3826:

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Just out of curiosity…. if this dungeon offers a “gear treadmill” but is totally contained within the dungeon itself, meaning none of the “extra stats” earned work anywhere except in the dungeon, how many people would be opposed to this?

As person totally and vigorously opposed to gear treadmills – this would be acceptable. If they added a stat to this set that would be totally and absolutely useless anywhere outsides of the instance it came from AND if NO other stat on this gear would be better than Exotics, I’d be fine with it.

However, this is a purely academic question, as I have never seen it done that way in any game ever.

Having stats contained to that dungeon alone will be acceptable to me as well. I sincerely hope this is what Ascended armor is going to be.

Many Pesky Monk.3140:

Jaggins.9318:

I came to GW2 to get away from the gear treadmill. (Thanks WOW and SWTOR for burning me out!) This is terrible news for me, I thought Arena net “got it” about the gear treadmill thing…

Yeah they did “get it”. They learned that just playing the game for “fun” isn’t enough to keep people playing. There needs to be an incentive for players to run dungeons, events and to keep doing things. I assume they saw a drop in their active player list and decided to roll with this. It’s something that works. Just how it is. As long as they keep it away from PvP I only see a great benefit.

Another possibility: players who want a gear treadmill will find the progression inadequate. Players who do not want a gear treadmill will be alienated. Everyone (except PvP perhaps) loses.

Oh no no no not this! This is awful.

Now I REALLY cannot wait to see what Lost Shores will bring and how ArenaNet will implement this. Not because I’m excited, but because I’m worried.

The first two acts have been loads of fun, and there’s so much stuff too. This is an awesome event.

And there’s still Acts 3 and 4 to go! Argh there isn’t enough time to do everything to my heart’s content!!

Cyric.7485:

Reads more like a demand or an expectation, not a suggestion. My apologies then, I haven’t had my morning smoke yet. -.-

Ah… my apologies too if I worded it too strongly!

Cyric.7485:

axiology.5807:

Events should be festive and enjoyable for everyone. You shouldn’t be aiming for 5% to complete and have fun while frustrating the remaining 95%. Not for Halloween content.

Please show me where that is stated in the MMO Rulebook because clearly half of this community knows how to make a better MMO than a gaming company with a successful MMO already under their belt.

It was a suggestion about the level of difficulty of events. From a player.

Please never work at ArenaNet if this is the kind of attitude you take towards feedback.

My suggestion: leave the difficult stuff to non-events, where people can play at their own pace, and since there will be lower concurrent demand they can individually instanced.

Events should be festive and enjoyable for everyone. You shouldn’t be aiming for 5% to complete and have fun while frustrating the remaining 95%. Not for Halloween content.

I disagree on many points.

General

• Transmutation – a wholly optional gold sink. I’m all for optional gold sinks.

• Crafting – I personally find crafting fun to level. Crafting is useful for making armor/weapons on demand. At max level, you can change builds and make a whole new set of armor and weapons as you wish.

• Currencies – Different currencies for different purposes. Besides, when you complete events you get BOTH gold and karma. Separating currency keeps different items in different markets. This prevents overdependence on a single currency, and difficulties in pricing and balance.

• Armor disparity – This just makes each armor level more granular. So instead of 1, 2, 3, you have 1.1 (masterwork), 1.2 (rare), 1.3 (exotic). It doesn’t make much of a difference. Just makes armor a little more challenging to obtain.

Combat System

I disagree almost entirely with this section.

• Depth – There is depth. Depth isn’t having a smorgasbord of skills to choose from (as with Guild Wars 1). Depth is about strategizing skill use. Weapon and slot skills are all functional (they serve a particular function). It’s a limited pool, but they serve the needs of the profession. You have to choose weapons and skills over other weapons and skills—you have to sacrifice something to excel in something. That is strategy and depth.

• Dodging – Great mechanic to have. A limited resource that grants you movement and invulnerability for that instance. I have had no problem with dodging working or not working, when it doesn’t work I know it’s my poor timing.

• Downed system – Interesting mechanic. You complain about a player going down being a detriment… So you would rather the player just die immediately? Isn’t that worse? Guild Wars 1 resurrection skills are EXACTLY like players reviving downed players. With the downed system, the downed player can do something about being down, instead of just waiting for a rez.

• Cooldown – Failure to cast is costly, and the failure should be reflected. The exact cooldown is up to balance.

dimgl.4786:

Although I pretty much dislike everything about this game, I wish you [ArenaNet] the best and I will be checking out Guild Wars 2 from time to time as it gets patched. It just sucks to think you guys spent four to five years developing this game and yet so many game design flaws slipped through the cracks.

I don’t think these are game design flaws that “slipped through” at all. They are intentional and strategic. I’m sorry this game does not fit your needs, and I hope you find one that does.

If only other players thought like you, Latorn!

I myself had forgotten about the book. So in actual fact we have horns (free!), costumes (gems), weapon skins (gems + luck, or from the trading post, or crafting) and the book (participation). And there may be more to come in the later Acts too, who knows.

I think having rare and non-rare skins would be a good idea. Maybe they can consider that if they make an end-of-year event (Wintersday!). I’m sure there’d be unhappiness from a group of people who will still sulk and rant about not getting the rare skins though. There’s no pleasing some people.

So after looking through the explosion of posts about Black Lion Chests and Mad King Chests, I’m actually surprised that there are a very sizable number of people who:

1. Acknowledge that chest drops are random, and have reasonable expectations based on that.

2. Appreciate ArenaNet’s efforts in making the Mad King Chests and making improvements.

3. Are engaging in balanced discussion about ways to improve events for everyone.

Of course, keep in mind the usual caveat, forum posters being the vocal minority, those with an axe to grind being especially extreme in their opinions.

For a game, this is quite amazing I think. Very often, any game discussion is drowned out by endless whining and rants which in any other context would be signs for serious need of anger management help. Thank you, thoughtful members of the GW2 forum community who are interested in constructive discussion, in improving the game, and NOT simply demanding ArenaNet give them stuff.

I’m having a lot of fun, and it’s only Act 1.

Thank you

There are town costumes you can buy with a fixed number of gems if you want mementos.

I think we all need to come to terms with this thing being a lottery. I know people who got skins in less than 10 Black Lion Chests (disclosure: not me). It’s luck. Now, ArenaNet has given us another go at the lottery, AND at such short notice. But if you treasure the boosts more than the lottery ticket, why are you making those Mad King Chests? Keep those boosts and use them!

What this does show, however, is that ArenaNet takes our feedback seriously, and are willing to make changes. You may not have had as much luck with chests as you’d like, but I don’t think it’s fair to rail at them for this.

Cezton.2415:

I’m not talking about adding a real “grind” to this game.

I’m talking about adding more variety and depth to already implemented features and corners of the game in the PvE instead of the same old that everyone else is doing.

What do you mean by real “grind”? Do you mean the grind for better and better gear stats? I think many of us will agree that we do not want that sort of grind.

If that’s what you mean, how would you suggest adding variety and depth without adding real “grind”?

I’m not being sarcastic. I am genuinely enjoying the game, and if I come across as overzealous, it’s because it makes me a little sad to see the thought put into the game design lost on people who just want the same old MMORPG. I admit that the skill system felt a little restrictive at first, but there are a lot of nuances to the set each weapon provides. They combo well, and allow the character to excel in one way, while limiting it in others. I find that very immersive.

Also, if you look at each weapon as ONE skill slot, you get 7 to 9 slots (depending on whether you’re using one-handed + offhand or two-handed, counting weapon swaps, not considering elementalist attunements). That’s pretty flexible.

I have often lost track of time just playing in WvW. The main rewards of WvW (besides the badges, karma, coin, world benefits, etc.) are kind of intangible. It’s just exhilarating, whether taking part in massive battles, or ninja-ing, which players may or may not feel.

But I must agree that what you get from it progression-wise is somewhat limited. It would be a waste to let WvW go to waste, and it would be great if they could increase what WvW does for character progression to encourage more participation. More loot maybe? Lodestones would be nice, those things are impossible to get. Skills with alternative animations? E.g. FLAMING QUAGGANS OF BALTHAZAR. That would be pretty neat.

From the Guild Wars 2 Design Manifesto:

So if you love MMORPGs, you should check out Guild Wars 2. But if you hate traditional MMORPGs, then you should really check out Guild Wars 2. Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun; and of course, it doesn’t have a monthly fee.

1. Thank you for abolishing the grinding treadmill. You were right, instead of preparing to have fun, I can jump straight into it, at all levels. That is incredible. It’s such a simple concept, having fun instead of preparing for it, but so often overlooked.

I mean, there is the cosmetic grind, but it’s optional, and it’s more like a sideplot as I have my fun and incidentally accumulate materials and gold. Unless item skins are your idea of fun, then you can go chase for them. There is something for everyone.

Except for those who are obsessed with gear stats. You should have printed a warning label for them. Contains negligible amounts of gear grind.

2. Constant fun. You did lie about the life sucking though. My life IS being sucked away. There’s just too much to do. Dynamic level adjustment is a brilliant idea. Instead of being constrained to particular areas at particular levels, the world opens up more and more as I progress.

Dungeons. To be honest I was ambivalent about them at the start, but as I get the hang of them I’m having more fun with them.

Exploration. I’m not the exploring type of person, but I’m having a lot of fun doing that in the game. Beautiful graphics, the world exploration system, interesting local stories and quests, dynamic events… It’s a lethal mix, ArenaNet.

And then there are the other professions and races. Why do you inflict this upon me?!

I have a level 80 and a level 70+, and frankly I don’t understand why people feel like there’s no end-game. I’m not sure what expectations they had, but I had pretty high expectations too, which Guild Wars 2 has met, and then a whole lot more. I can’t get enough of the game.

3. Amazing skills and combat system design. I like the mix of weapon skills and open skill slots. I am discovering more ways to use my weapon every day (I mean weapon use strategies, not just unlocking skills), and that sense of greater adeptness at weapon use is very fulfilling.

For the first few days I remained still while using skills and had to constantly remind myself to move, which goes to show how fixed we are in the halting style of combat. Combat in Guild Wars 2 is fast (except against dungeon bosses :P), fluid, and so addictive.

There’s more I’d write about, but I’m pretty sure I had lost everyone’s attention by the fourth line. Thank you for this incredibly well thought-out and designed game, ArenaNet.

I’m glad that there’s no gear treadmill too. I’m sorry I misunderstood what you meant, there are just too many people who seem to be hung up on cosmetics being the only thing in this game.

Maybe a mix of fixed prices and chest skins would have been good.

Dante Dragonhand.2538:

Vakirauta.6397:

I wonder how all these funbois blindly believe there is nothing wrong with the game. I agree with OP, especially about the guilds, hell, this game’s title is Guild Wars. Disappointment is what we feel.

Its not that we think there is nothing wrong with the game, every game has kitten wrong with it, we just prefere having skill being the requirement than gear. No more gearscore ftw.

Exactly. Thank you Dante.

Denial Of Service.5732:

in fact no, i bought it because in some previous threads i made supporting Anet decision for skins to be in chest its because i tought drop rate was in fact at least 30% in that case encourages people to buy gems and get in exchange a SKIN!.

Where in the world did you get that 30%? I have never seen that anywhere.

In any case, you have supported ANet! I’m sorry that you did not get the skin you wanted, but there are other ways to enjoy and get something out of the Halloween festivities. Which I hope you would take part in, and not base everything on some poor luck with chests.

Voidspawn.1934:

1. If the chance to get them is as low as people are reporting so far, the prices on the TP will be very high.

2. This game is all about cosmetics

1. Yeah. Oh well. The price of vanity.

2. There’s also the whole other part where you actually play the game? That part isn’t affected by these high prices. Which is great, because everyone gets to play the game. So there’s the accessible gameplay which everyone can easily take part in, and the race for looks. The race is pricey, absolutely, but the more expensive/rare the skins are, the more exclusive your look will be, and the higher your status, looks-wise.

Denial Of Service.5732:

“i gotz dis shiny skinz u can haz it or i wont be unique” mentality.

But isn’t that why you want that skin from the chest? And the reason why you’re unhappy is because you’re not getting it?

The gambling is optional. In so many ways.

1. If you want the skins you can buy them off the trading post. Convert gems to gold and buy them. There’s always this option if you want them so badly.

2. They’re cosmetic. So it’s really a want, not a need. I know that premium skins are a large part of Guild Wars, and that’s exactly what they are, premium. Premium = expensive, difficult to get.

I, for one, am glad they did this. I hope they profit from this and can continue to bring great updates to the game.