Guild Wars 2

Truthfully, this board has assumed a mob mentality of complaining in general. If you go to other boards out there that are more constructive, you’ll find the game is still very healthy though much smaller than that initial burst of PvPers when it first came out.

And truthfully, a lot of you are just never going to like it, they tried to make it different than WoW and GW1 and for the most part, they’ve done just that. Those changes will either be accepted or detested, and I think that’s also pretty normal.

However, if it’s thieves alone making the game less fun for you, I don’t know what else to say. I run a non-bunker Engineer and they are usually my easiest kill. So many players just spam a few buttons and think they can win with that. So in general, I agree with the OP.

Fellknight.4820:

tOss.9024:

One of the main reasons no mmo will ever have the same success as WoW did, in my opinion, are posts like this. Communities are so impatient now, threatening to leave, exaggerating Issues. I’ve seen this trend for awhile now, we set up games for failure without giving them time to develop and succeed.
This ppatch isn’t make or break for me, because this has been one of the smoothest and well balanced(regarding PvP) for an mmo I know of.

Your so far from the mark, it’s obvious you haven’t been playing MMO’s very long.

Long ago there were two games that had a very large PvP Community they were called Everquest 1 and DAOC. When those games had gotten old and they went to release DAOC2 and Everquest 2 which both dropped the ball on PvP.

WoW released right at this time and had a slightly better pvp system and great pve that grabbed every player from other games. There success was more timing then anything else. But patch after patch pve was focused on while PvP was ignored.

This left a giant playerbase of homeless PvPer’s looking for the next game, they tried Darkfall, Warhammer, Rift, Swtor, Lineage 2, etc. All of which dropped the ball on PvP while promising fixes and concerns on pvp content that never came.

Now pvp player’s are smarter they can see through the jargon and rhetoric designers use to placate them, while doing nothing whatsoever to address the pvp flaws. So they leave when Dev’s ignore there issues and concerns that imbalance pvp, as they should.

I can’t combine the idea that PvP players are smarter now but they still struggle fighting a thief. If anything these two points directly contradict, I think PvPers have become more casual than ever, and that attitude has changed (from an old gamer as myself) from back in the day, if you played online and got skunked, it was your fault because you weren’t any good. Now, it’s the developers fault.

That doesn’t seem “smarter” to me at all, that seems like lowering to the common denominator.

Bad for business? Probably, but not immediately. Warcraft does amazing from a business perspective and it’s PvP was terribly unbalanced, but casual players could do well in it… even my wife, who isn’t great at MMO PvP, could do okay. GW2 is a lot harder to play well, it’s much faster paced, and so it’s going to take time to find that happy medium for Anet to get the best casual experience for casual players out there and still keep the experienced PvPers happy as well.

They have to keep PvE content up as well, because most PvPers start out as PvE’ers, and PvE is what keeps the fanbase up overall, not just PvP in these games, so there are a lot of elements at play.

Rukh.1562:

Kronos.4876:

Funny how every single patch was another ‘breakpoint’ for you guys. First the devblog, which didnt come out for ages, then the ’balance’patch and now this. Wondering how many people really leave the game after they didnt get what they want, because by that logic, no one should be playing right now.

If you notice the stream viewer decreasing, yep a lot of people stop playing.

That was going to happen no matter what, especially for a game that made a lot of new changes from cookie-cutter PvP from other MMOs. There could have been 10 more play modes and 10 times more balance and still the complaints would roll in and people’s fanatic interest would die down. What grows in the place of it is a stronger, more dedicated playerbase that enjoys the PvP and works to overcome the shortcomings rather than threatening to quit because of them, because we really like playing still.

This is why I feel the scoring system needs to be adjusted… people play a certain way in 8v8, then they join tPvP and they don’t have a clue what to do. 8v8 should play in such a way to ween people into tPvP, but as it stands it actually handicaps new players.

The PvP in this game is very good and just needs some tweaks to fix bugs and adjust the scoring system. Reviews for the game overall are very good, and for PvP, they are decent. It’s only been out just over two months. Things are in a good place, especially for a non-subscription game.

Some exciting times ahead for PvPers, this is one of the best ones out there already even with just one mode and still some bugs to work through. Some players will leave because this game isn’t for them, but since the game is so new, it will also grow a more dedicated fanbase over time.

November patch will not have many big nerfs, Anet doesn’t do that, thankfully.

So long as they instantly begin to attack, yes, but auto-attack stops on downed doesn’t it? I’ve never had an issue 1v1 getting up no matter what they do so far.

So far this hasn’t been used but then again, hardly anyone even knows about this skill unless you play an Engineer yourself.

It actually is very powerful 1v1, in that if you know you’ve already put the elixer down, you can use your harpoon rope move to knock them down for the 2 ticks you need for a full rez.

That said, I’ve been running it the last few hours and it still feels a little gimmicky. The endurance refill and stun-break are the main traits that make it worth carrying, and how it applies to your team-mates moreso. It’s ten times more useful to help out your team than yourself.

I actually didn’t know this was a stun-break as well… my opinion of this ability has changed quite a bit, and it did awesome for me for a few games in a row, but I think I had the element of surprise… nothing like seeing someone go for the spike and then ‘surprise, poppin fresh mofo’ as you get back up.

When people come to expect this though I wonder if they will just wait a second for the Engineer to pop back up and blast them again, because there’s not much life left
after the rez.

That said, at the moment I’m having fun with it in sPvP.

I’m at least glad someone posted a build rather than a speculative screenshot. I’ll concede as I don’t know a thing about Eles or Necros on this one.

As far as hotjoin goes, my best guess is that they view it as casual fighting… whoever wins doesn’t matter, it’s just to play and test things out, however… I do agree the scoring system is bad, which further inflates the issue of farming glory for new weapons and armor… you get more points to playing in ways that would dump you out of tPvP play. It’s a bad design to ween players in on 8v8 hotjoin, then those players start 5v5 tPvP and it’s completely different.

Putting a few points into toughness or using a soldier amulet doesn’t mean you are a tank, it just means you are balancing out your armor stats.

I usually have my best matches against thieves running balanced specs with lots of CC, because my damage output is enough to counter them. Whenever I play bunker I usually struggle more, because my damage is so weak that a good thief can typically continue to fight past the intial burst of HS spam or backstab, but with a balanced spec with a well timed dodge and CC counter + my own burst, they go down much quicker.

It’s not guaranteed, and I’m not a fantastic player, so there will always be those really good thieves that would beat you no matter what profession they played, but as a general rule, this has been my experience so far.

I say it’s a gimmick in that it’s not seen nearly as much as other engineer specs. Some players really use it to their advantage and play well with it, but there is probably more variety in Engineer builds than any other profession when it comes to utilities, so it doesn’t always make the cut for Engi builds.

I can post a screenshot to show you how many thief games I’ve played since BETA. I flock to these threads because I honestly consider thieves to be the easiest kill in the game, and because statistically, Guardians and Mesmers carry much more weight in skewing the balance of the game, but yet there are 1/10th of the posts on these boards mentioning that over thieves. And I played over 600 games as a Guardian, and I’m willing to admit they are a bit over the top. Not game-breaking… but very strong in comparison to other professions for what they offer to team play.

Well you just mention your dislike for thieves a lot, so I figured I would post it here as good as any.

Let me say first off that my experience with Eles personally isn’t great, but of all professions, especially not making a bunker, Eles would go down to thieves the fastest… that’s the way it’s been in any MMO I’ve ever played, the offensive cloth wearer is the easiest target for the thief prototype.

Generalities aside though, you’ve picked a build that gives you no durability… most of the Eles on the boards say you do not need much to counter a thief, but since I do not know the ability set, again, I’ll leave that to your own methods.

But the Divinity set is typically not good for any build I’ve ever used… the +60 you get to each stat means you’re sacrificing points somewhere you could “specialize” your offensive and defensive talents. You have no toughness in traits, and none given by your runes… if you also have none in your amulet or jewel, you’ve basically made a recipe that is thief fodder stats wise, which means you’re left to your utilities alone to counter. I know that seems easy to say, that I ask you to post your build so of course I would say that, but from my perspective that spec doesn’t look equipped to handle any encounter with any burst dps.

I’ll venture to say I could be wrong since I’ve played Ele the least of all classes, but considering what I mentioned above to be true for all the other professions I’ve played, I would be willing to say it comes into play here as well.

I wouldn’t say it’s abused because it’s a gimmick and very few engineers use it that way, but I do think it has potentially problematic applications, and I don’t think it was intended to be used that way and will probably be fixed sometime soon.

Why do so many people who obviously hate a game spend so much time on forums of the game they hate so much?

And by the way, to the OP… ranged are the best way to take out bunkers. Don’t tell anybody, because they wouldn’t believe you anyway.

Seriously… as limited in use as a condition ranger is, they are arguably the best spec to take out a single bunker guardian or engineer, I can’t speak for bunker Ele or Necro, but I know, despite all the complaints on this forum, a good condition ranger is probably the fight I hate the most on any profession I play, because I typically play short-ranged or melee classes.

Post me your build and I will be glad to help you with your thief problem.

I play Engineer main now in PvP, my previous one was Guardian. 200 matches so far as Engineer and 600+ as Guardian.

What is your build and profession?

If you’re still complaining about thieves, it’s like complaining about the price of gas when your house is on fire.

Yes, it’s an issue, but completely surmountable and nowhere near as urgent as other issues.

And stop it with the screenshots, they show absolutely nothing, especially when none of you are willing to post your build and weapon set along with it.

Relentliss.2170:

Can someone link me the build with 17000 toughness?

Obviously I meant 1.7k.

Burst will be toned down on the whole, but most of the people who are upset on this board will still be, because Thieves only do two things well, and that’s roam around and finish weakened players off, and that will always be their role.

There will always be a thief waiting for you to pop all your CDs and lose half your life in a big fight and jump in to finish the job, and honestly, to me, this isn’t the problem, because it’s a waste of time in game to do that. The problem is the scoring system.

Even last night, I joined a good pug tournament game with zero thieves on our side, the other side had 3, a guardian, and a warrior. We beat them 500 to 189, but they almost doubled our glory count. In tPvP this isn’t so bad, because you at least get a chest for your troubles. In regular 8v8 hotjoin, most of us are farming glory to buy new gear, and the team that plays well is punished for choosing to play the map rather than fight on the roads.

This, to me, is what encourages all the blast down thieves… because they know they can keep blasting down new players and farm glory, that’s all they are there for. I will typically have a 1v1 with a thief in a match seeing I’m an engineer and they usually avoid me after that, even if they could beat me, they don’t want to waste their time farming glory when they find someone who puts up a fight.

I would hate to see any class nerfed based off of how new, unexperienced players deal with it, but I think if the scoring system actually made it worthwhile to win the match with a better glory reward, maybe they would stop. Maybe that can’t happen in hotjoin, though, just because of the team balancing thing.

In any sense, as you were. There are far bigger balance issues to contest than flimsy thieves, but I’m positive at this point, based on what I’ve seen, that’s what the board will be for complaining about for quite some time to come.

Obviously I meant 1.7.

Thieves are typically the easiest encounter I have in the game 1v1. From an Engineer’s perspective, and I don’t use a single stun-break. I’m not quite sure what the problem is except from people who refuse to get any toughness from their amulet, gem, or traits at all. Anything over 17k toughness should give you enough time to counter a thief from what I’ve seen, with the exception of those that just wait to jump in and get the killing blow on what would have been a death either way. They are good at that.

SameHH.1048:

Nice job man! this chart can be used to classify tiers:
A-Tier: Guardian.
B-Tier: Thief, Mesmer.
C-Tier: Warrior, Elementalist, Necromancer, Engineer.
D-Tier: Rangers.

How do you get your Tiers from that data? How did you jump Thief above Engineer and Necro when experienced players drop Thieves so heavily below?

A) Guardians and Mesmers
B) Engis and Necros
C) Thieves, Warriors, Eles
D) Rangers

Unless you’re going by the initial data, which shouldn’t mean anything, I would much moreso go on what a level 30+ player tells me than a level 1.

Well… something to bare in mind is, at least every class I’ve played so far, every utility slot you use for minion… (spirit weapon, turret, etc.) is one less condition removal, one less stunbreak, etc.

So if you CAN sift through the garbage and lay some conditions down, or stick to them for some good solid focused damage, they can’t defend themselves anywhere near the level of a player with better suited utility slots. The exception seems to be Mesmer, but I have no knowledge of what utilities they have in reguards to their clones, so I can’t say.

So far this has been the best PvP experience for me of any MMO I’ve played. Not much variety, but that will come with time, but the focus on positioning, reflexes, and map control over skill rotation/gear/counter-comps has been a very welcome change for me. I love how much I can customize my builds and affect the match in so many different ways.

What’s great about GW2 PvP is that it’s different enough from WoW and GW1, and seems to upset players of those two games the most, that it will build an entirely new fanbase over time.

I find that the slower paced, rotation rock-scissors-paper style gameplay of former MMOs has been replaced with a need for faster reflexes, good positioning, map control, movement, proactive action that requires vision and knowledge of what each class excels at.

Overall, it’s not dying, though the initial hype will go away, a strong foundation will be built from the ground up after the unhappy players finally quit. This game is just starting, it’s nowhere near dying.

Stin.9781:

I dont think toughness and healing power are low powered, i allready see guardians outheal any kind of bursts, back to full hp 1on1. Any futher increase would ruin burst dps day.

Things i could agree upon is that:

1. Healing needs rewards.
2. Some healing has too long cd’s
3. some skills need wider aoe of heal on guardian, while some healing aoe’s on other classes need reductions.

These, I agree with.

Leeain.2431:

Again… all the wanna be dps say no.
All the wanna be healer say yes.

@aydenunited.5729

Honestly you’re fighting a losing battle here, there will never be healers in sPvP, and with all the current issues and bugs, adjusting group healing is no where near the top of the list, and almost anyone who has played sPvP past a few ranks could tell you any major increases in healing would completely unbalance everything. Just look at how strongly the Guardian’s group heal changes the course of a fight.

I don’t know if this is a losing battle.
Something will change… don’t know what.
Right now there are some useless skills and useless stats and there is no contribution.
This will be changed. For sure.

Guardian group healing is good… but can be countered easly cause guardian have to stay still in the position for 4 second. Easy target…
Necro or mesmer can simply melt him during the channel.
Warrior can destroy you during the channel.

And the fact that you mention “waiting” for your heals to come back up shows me that you really aren’t playing the right game. Weapon/kit/attunement swapping is part of the bread and butter of good players in this game, people who never swap hit a ceiling very quickly. Saying you are “forced” to wait for healing CD cooldowns is like saying you feel forced to play the game while you wait to do some niche thing that doesn’t work in this game

I’m not playng the right game cause Anet did some unbalance mistakes like that.

Mercifull intervention – 80sec CD
Sanctuary – 120sec CD
Signet of Mercy – 240sec. CD
Healing Breeze – 40 sec. CD

In addition to high CD, this skills are low performance too… and the healing power bonus is low too.

It is not the wrong game cause altruistic healing skills are been designed… than lowerpowered it discouragin the use.

It’s like playing an FPS and saying you don’t want to shoot people, you just want to go around picking up medi-kits, there’s no point to it, and you’re right, it doesn’t

An mmorpg die if people start thing it’s an FPS…

I’m not trying to sound condescening but seriously, if you’ve played to anywhere near rank 10 you should see that what you’re suggesting here is basically asking Anet to change their entire PvP scheme, and you can make your point, but this is one area I can promise you, you won’t get anywhere near the changes you want, because you don’t understand what support means in the context of GW2.

I’m rank 12. I play crithammer or bunkers…

My rank doesn’t change the fact that healing doesn’t give contribution… some CD are insane and 0.125 healing power is useless, that’s why nobody use it.
Have you ever play healer in the past? Think no…

@Stin.9781

Now look, Water combo fields, if my teammate ele says im puting down a combo field i just give it 4-5 blast finishers all team got 10k heals or even more, and regeneration… isnt that healing ? If you want to heal alone you wont be able to do it, its not the right game, now if you want to cooperate with your teammates thats the way to go. Ele,ranger, guardian can all sucesfully heal with combo fields. Mesmers with ethereal fields can remove conditions.

I know… that is what i’m doing right now… but i don’t want it. I don’t like this playstyle.
I don’t want kill foes for heal party.

Everybody should be free to choose his oun playstyle and a good game should allow it.

I still can’t understand why Anet designed some healing for the others players and than discouraging the use.

I wish you read my post up above saying why healing increase is lower then attack damage increase. The damage can be lowered,prevented, and so on. power increased by 1 and toughness increased by 1 willl not change damage, meaning 1000 power extra against oponent with extra 1000 toughness, will act the same, while healing actualy increases survivability.

So?
Can’t see the problem in that…

1000 def counter 1000 attack = BALANCE

power vs toughness
conditions vs vitality
precision/crit vs healing power

Stats should be equal.
If not, there is no point to choose one or the other and every body will take the strongest one… oh, whait… this is happening right now…
The most used are Vit – Power – Precision cuse Tough – HealPw are lowered.

However… i haven’t ask for 1on 1… I said that 0.125 is ridiculous and maybe 0.3 (is not 1) should be a little bit fair.

I hate to always go back to this, but what you’re looking for… is every other MMO out there, there are tons that let you heal just like you want. This one isn’t one and never will be, I’m very sorry you were mislead to think this game had healers in it. I felt Anet were very clear about changing the trinity from DPS/Tank/Heals to DPS/Control/Support.

Best of luck to you.

Does anyone know if salvaging Priory Hammers still grants a chance at a Tiger Token, and if so, is this considered a bug or just a peculiar easter-egg left in by Anet?

Thanks.

Dual.8953:

True, though on the counter point, even good ideas should be tested. So it’s also good to constructively critic the critisism, comprento compadre? (Sorry, just had to add more C words)

That actually doesn’t counter my point, I agree with that. Good ideas should be tested. Just don’t make repeated posts about the same thing that you feel needs to be tested, and don’t demand it be done RIGHT now. That’s my point… not in the critique itself, even if I disagree with it, that’s what the boards are for, but it’s not healthy to threaten to quit playing and demand your idea be “fixed” right now, which is what a lot of people do here, and it’s also not healthy to have 5 topics on the front page be about the exact same thing, complaint or otherwise. I would feel the same way if there were 10 “I love Anet!” posts on the front page as well.

The problem with complaining posts is not the complaining in itself, it’s that:

1) Repeated topics on the same “issue” purge topics from the main page that are about more in-game strategy and team play

2) The entitled, impatient, condescending tone of DEMANDING Anet respond to you right here, right now, Veruca Salt-esque behavior that is poisonous to any board that wants to be diplomatic and actually acheive results

People need to complain, but if you’re not willing to listen to a counter arguement and make changes yourself, then no, you shouldn’t complain. It’s like complaining about the president but refusing to vote. It’s not a one sided argument, but to most doing the complaining, it is… it’s their way or nothing.

Leeain.2431:

@Munchkin.4137
My suggestion is not to OP healing… i’m asking a LITTLE IMPROVMENT cause right now there are usless stats and useless skills.

Your build is good, a lot of guild mate of mine use something like that (i don’t know if is the same or not)… but the problem is still the same.

I use Soldier’s (power/vit/tough) armor and weapons, along with Cleric’s (power/heal/tough) jewelry

Soldier?
Soldier is not an healer archetype.

Why you use it?
Cause all healing power 0.125 is a waste of stats.

As far as cooldowns go, yes, the healing cooldowns tend to be pretty big. But with the trait Aquamancer’s Alacrity, the cooldowns are lowered by 20% to 16s for Geyser and 36s for Healing rain. This still seems high, but you will be switching attunements a lot to give other things to the party, as well as switching to CC as needed. By the time you get back to Water attunement, Geyser will be up. And the next time you come back to Water, Healing Rain will be up.

As far as cooldowns go… 36 (with traits) is far far away…
People can spam damage every 5/10/15 seconds and have traits for increase damage.

So you are FORCED to switch attunement and use others skills just for pass the time, but you are just whaiting for the healing CD… if there were lower CD you would use less attunement swithc focusing on healing.

You are ele… so you have 4 attunements.
A lot of skills to use.
I am guardian… if i go Mace/Shield + Staff I have dead time cause of the long CD… and i can just autoattack.

This and Guardian bunkers. Yeah, we probably won’t kill anything there, but we can hold a point very well due to blasted Water fields and Cantrips.

This is Tank.

TLDR: If you want to heal, you are playing the wrong class.

I like guardian but I’m leveling ele too.

Honestly you’re fighting a losing battle here, there will never be healers in sPvP, and with all the current issues and bugs, adjusting group healing is no where near the top of the list, and almost anyone who has played sPvP past a few ranks could tell you any major increases in healing would completely unbalance everything. Just look at how strongly the Guardian’s group heal changes the course of a fight.

And the fact that you mention “waiting” for your heals to come back up shows me that you really aren’t playing the right game. Weapon/kit/attunement swapping is part of the bread and butter of good players in this game, people who never swap hit a ceiling very quickly. Saying you are “forced” to wait for healing CD cooldowns is like saying you feel forced to play the game while you wait to do some niche thing that doesn’t work in this game. It’s like playing an FPS and saying you don’t want to shoot people, you just want to go around picking up medi-kits, there’s no point to it, and you’re right, it doesn’t contribute to the team because “support” in this game does not mean healer, it implies the entire gambit of boons, condition removals, haste, stability… you know, “supporting” your team. There are some classes that do this better than others, and having played a guardian as my main before switching to engineer, I can clearly see how “support” and “control” play into good teams, the problem is, nobody bothers to run the balanced builds which are required to make us of these two parts of the new holy trinity, because most people either want to kill quickly or die slowly.

The healing stats are in this game for a similar reason to the Vampire run set… the small heals can be tweaked so that in the course of a fight, you might get 1-2 more crucial moves off than you normally would before you go down, and those could turn the course of the fight, not in any means keep you up, especially in a system with no mana to burn out. Nothing about making healing strong works for this game.

I’m not trying to sound condescening but seriously, if you’ve played to anywhere near rank 10 you should see that what you’re suggesting here is basically asking Anet to change their entire PvP scheme, and you can make your point, but this is one area I can promise you, you won’t get anywhere near the changes you want, because you don’t understand what support means in the context of GW2.

Archaon.6245:

Moa = best sigle target istant kill (In 10 secs you can kill everything if it can do nothing)

Time Warp = Best multi target skill

But…instead…nerf thieves LOL

Exactly, which is why it’s hard to take posts on this board seriously.

There are plenty of very useful balance builds out there, they just don’t specialize in killing or not getting killed in gangs, and so only organized teams run them.

And of course, there’s no interest… I’ve made at least two posts attempting to discuss balanced build mechanics and how they work into team structure, and they get purged from the front page for more complaining posts.

If it doesn’t come easy, most people won’t bother with it… that could be a motto for a lot of this board.

Support does not mean just healing. It includes boons, sprints, haste, stability, it is intentional there will never be dedicated healers in this game. The difference is DPS can stand on it’s on and do well, support and control struggle more, but a good support and control + DPS will always beat two or three DPS unless they are not yet good players.

This thread is proof as to why Anet should NEVER listen to any of you. Ever.

Good gravy Jesus, what do any of you do when you’re not complaining? Obviously this doesn’t apply to a very special 5% of you, but man… just have some fun for a change and stop whining.

God bless your post and I hope this thread survives longer than most productive posts do here. I would post my own advice but I’ve come to realize it’s not welcome on these boards.

Bunkers that erase conditions are weak to CC. Bunkers that are strong to CC are weak to condition damage.

FYI.

The main problems aren’t glass cannons or bunkers, it’s that the scoring system encourages both styles. In sPvP, glass thieves farm more glory… in tPvP, bunkers decide more matches.

Nobody builds balanced classes because they want to kill other players, and balanced builds don’t do that easily. Balanced builds support, CC, counter-cap, do all the important things in the game that a necessary for a premade team, but for pug play, there is very little incentive to run supportive builds or CC builds because your team usually doesn’t make good use of it.

As the meta develops, perhaps people will get used to this enough to know that the Engineer knocking people off the point and counter-capping is to be valued… or the necro boon-stripping the bunker for their team… but as it is, it’s all about killing, because you farm more personal glory that way, and win fewer matches by focusing on player-killing in tPvP, so it’s counter-productive on both counts.

I’m a firm believer that game balance is pretty good, but scoring balance is horrible. I wish I knew a formula to fix it, but aside from ditching hotjoin 8v8 to begin with I’m not sure I know hot to.

Please air your grievances about thieves here:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/Thiefs-Discussion-Thread-Merged/page/10#post458451

This thread is both pretentious and full of itself. There’s no need to stroke your own ego whilst debating a game bug.

That would be like someone saying “man I own thieves but I feel sorry for the rest of you when they backstab insta-gib you, doesn’t ever happen to me, though, I’m just saying”.

Save it. We have enough posts around here offering up little to zero positive contribution without adding tongue-in-cheek brag posts.

Engineer called. He said “lol”.

Colton.9460:

Mogar.9216:

btw I’m not asking for nerfs or buffs. I play a elementalist and all I do is pvp. I am quite happy with my class and how I do. This is just a general post. I have played DAoC WAR for years and many other mmo. I really like GW2 and hope this game does well. Just throwing my 2 cents on how I think Anet should manage the pvp so this game don’t die like the other pvp game I have played in the past.

Your right to do so, this thread: (https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/A-very-interesting-point-about-ESports-that-ANet-should-keep-in-mind/first#post486237) has some of the top players from SC2 explaining how their game is slowly dying due to casauls being left out when balancing.

If you would rather not watch the video or read the thread it paraphrases like this: Balancing for the top players makes the game much less casual friendly( since not everyone can be like the top players casuals get frustrated when only experts can perform well). This frustration leads to less people watching the esport, to less people going to tournaments, and to less reason for sponsors to shell out dough.

This phenomenon is clearly laid out, and shows that the majority of the player base is more important than the top when it comes to E-sport viability. Balancing around the average player lets them feel like they are doing well, and lets the pro’s feel like they are doing exceptionally well; which in turn leads to happy gamers.

That being said as spoonfey points out it should not be balance to the lowest common denominator. That leads to a bad game. But I do not agree with him that everyone wants to QQ and thinks they should beat top players. I am talking about the top 5%, spoonfey is talking about the bottom 5%, both are vocal but both are less important than the middle.

First of all, thanks for bringing a level headed argument to the boards. You show that it is possible to bring a strong stance without sounding immature.

My questions:

1) Do you think the issue is the speed at which they are balancing around the general consensus, or that they are not going to balance around the general consensus at all?

2) Since the issue is game interest, the PvE side of this game still has a lot of casual interested (relatively speaking to launch of course), so would that affect the interest in sponsorships, since it still has a very full PvE and to a certain extent WvW side of the game to counter-balance potential loss of interest in PvP?

Seether.7285:

Stop making false defenses Aydenunited. They didn’t really try anything different other than having a 3 round single elimination tournament rather than straight match making. There are a lot of complaints regarding that, but they can’t even get the system they implemented to work correctly.

I do enjoy the game and thats why I am so frustrated that ArenaNet is basically letting a community die that they created with their pre-launch hype of GW2 E-sports. Everything that ArenaNet has done (excluding balance) in terms of PvP since release is pretty much a complete joke when taken in context of both the content of the rest of the game and when taken in comparison to other competitive PvP games.

I’m only defending that I personally enjoy it and there is a community of us, debatably how small you want to believe, that don’t agree with you, that’s all. I don’t understand the view from the complaining side demanding everyone agree with you when I’ve been much more satisfied than I thought I was going to be.

I think they failed to deliver on what MMO players have come to expect because they tried something different, and no amount of planning with make that right first try, not will it change the mindsets of players wanting more of the same overnight.

For those of us who were looking for something different, there are those of us that this has been a perfect match for. I didn’t like GW1 PvP and I was frustrated with imbalance based on gear and forced builds in WoW, so this game has been a breath of fresh air to me.

I guess I only make these posts in response because, to those of us who “do” enjoy the game, our message board is flooded with unhappy comments… and despite those of you holding on to the idea that Anet is suddenly going to hold the presses and start making drastic changes, it’s not going to happen, and some of us would rather you make posts in the topics already relating to these things, or if you’re unhappy, just go and check back later when they’ve possibly made some updates you enjoy.

If you’re unhappy with your purchase I’m sure you can send them an e-mail airing your grievances and get a better response than you will posting your unhappiness on these boards.

The only unfortunate thing about that is they want to make sPvP an e-sport, which means the top 5% is what they are going to balance things around (which is why they said they launched the game with one sPvP mode only, to focus on that very thing). It’s why Warcraft has never been considered very legit on the high scale by a lot of people, because it tends to cater to paper/rock/scissor and pigeon-holed builds and team comps at high level.

Obviously people will debate all day if Anet will acheive this, and it might not be the best strategy from a financial standpoint, but my point it, I think that’s where they are aimed, and they are probably willing to sacrifice some disinterest for frustration in their product to acheive it.

Colton.9460:

Zyrusticae.7245:

Once agian I will explain what burst dps is, it is a dps that does damage in a very large all out attack. If they can do a big enough attack to destroy a bunker with thier high defenses then the balance build is getting destroyed. This is why there are no balanced builds at the moment, they are sub par at each specialized role. Also, why you would relegate every condition build to be a helper that must have someone with them, who in your opinion should just make certain fights easier ignores that this makes it better to run full dps.

Currently bringing a good condition player is necessary to counter a good bunker, change it to what you suggest and all you need is burst dps. But if you cant see how making burst effective enough to destroy all out bunkers means they will destroy balanced and condition builds, thus leading to a burst arms race then I will stop replying to you. I am just banging my head against a brick wall of “I want it dead now, nef plox”

I think you are starting to see more and more balanced/control specs filtering into meta, they are just not as sexy to play because people want kills or the glory of not dying more than point control. I recently made a roamer/bomberman Engineer spec and the perma sprint + knockbacks means I can counter cap points like never before, and usually end up topping out the scoreboards, but I might get 1 or 2 kills a match.

It all depends on how you want to play, and most people want to play PvP to defeat other players, the people willing to play balanced specs usually do better in organized tPvP over sPvP, and are fewer because more time is required to put into the build, and no kill comes very quick over another player.

Even though I don’t think you’re really wanting advice, Zyr, I’ll try again to actually help despite that I think this game will never really be for you.

Try a build that incorporates a hammer or mace… look up a few builds… you’ll find that making a balanced Warrior spec with more CC will actually end up doing more damage than a burst spec that has no way to nullify all the bunkers defenses. You can still keep another weapon of your choice as your second set if you really want to at first just to work it in gradually.

Zyrusticae.7245:

Noctred.6732:

Zyrusticae.7245:

Stop that.

There is no justification for any build that requires two people to counter.

There is no justification. Please stop trying.

I can’t even imagine what goes on in your heads to justify “oh, hey, two people have to fight ONE GUY to counter him, that’s fair and balanced!”

It’s not really that simple.

Bunkers are ultimately killable 1v1, especially if you have steady access to poison. The reason you typically need 2+ people is because you want to take them down before they get support.

There’s a difference.

No, not really. They’re still too strong to take down in a reasonable amount of time 1v1, and any situation that demands a second player just to offset one is obviously far from fair or balanced in any way.

If this was team deathmatch, that might be true. But it’s a point based game, and bunkers:

1) Can’t take down creatures in any reasonable time.
2) Can’t get many incremental 5-10 point kills.
3) Are useless in mid if the trebuchet is up.
4) Take just as long to kill you as it takes to kill them.

You can literally knock any bunker off the point (knockback, fear, etc.) and contest the point in a matter of seconds, after that, you’re basically on even ground. You can take all the time you need because it’s a neutral point then, and whoever… you or the bunker… that gets help first will most likely take the point. That’s where the team play that Anet is pushing for comes in.

Nobody is forcing you to play? I’m still enjoying conquest mode and trying out new builds, and Anet has been pretty clear that they make changes in steady small progression, not huge overwhelming nerfs or new even more buggy content. I think this might not be the game for you if you want quick and fast new content and game changes.