Guild Wars 2

LiebnirGWAccount.5698:

By the last post, i’m guessing you believe the Inspiration path is the way to go? I’ve tried it the most out of the three, I’ve not actually tried going down the illusion path as of yet, and the PU path was goooood fun, aside from being stuck to Torch.

you aren’t stuck to torch, decoy and massinvis alone justifies PU imho.

if you trait decoy on 25% and take veill, you got 4 sources of invis, thats more than enough.

yeah, there are many variants of this build around: conditions, hybrid, even power. Its around since ANET buffs PU.

So yes, its perfectly viable.

Now compairing apples and oranges:

Both are fruits – check!
both fruits have vitamins – check!
both fruits grow on trees – check!
you get more juice out of an orange than an apple – so the apple must be underpowered!

Maybe a quote make things clearer:

You can’t cherry pick skills and compare them between professions in an effort to “balance.” With your logic there should be only one profession in the entire game.

I think about 80% of mesmers copy this meta build at the moment.
Swapping a trait doesn’t make it different.

so it feels more like a troll post, nuff said.

Joonks.7501:

You can’t cherry pick skills and compare them between professions in an effort to “balance.” With your logic there should be only one profession in the entire game.

This should be shown on top of every classforum in this game. Unfortunately there are many players with this logic.

I use it more or less constantly and its a good trait. Principally used for charging mantras or for scepter auto fast spawning clones.

Aren’t you able to make a build yourself? No wonder everyone is whining here if you rather wait 4 hours than makle a build by yourself in 5 min.

But i’m in good mood, so here my build . Very entertaining in WvW and not so squishy as it seems.

Carighan.6758:

They are butterflies, and you’re trying to mess with the reason I love the class.

Stop.

Just play a different class. If you have issues playing a class with pink butterflies and pink fire for their graphics effects, then the problem is with you, not the class. And the devs certainly have more important things to do (like, hint, adding more pink butterflies ).

(edit)
To the rest of the forum: Don’t you sometimes wonder how people end up playing a class when apparently, they don’t like it at all? And then they take the stance of “I don’t get it, what’s wrong with it?!” instead of “I don’t get it, what’s wrong with me?”. Because yes, having rolled a mesmer despite not liking them is certainly the devs fault.
In fact, I think they should fix it by deleting the OP’s Mesmer. Problem solved! :O

^^ this. well said.

I’m on elona reach and play my mesmer since CB. i have played every profession to 80 (except warrior, its so boring), so (i think) i know a lot of traits, skills and builds of other classes, how to counter or approach them.

I enjoy almost every area of the game, but mostly PvE or WvW. I love theorycrafting (without throwing in numbers and too much math) and i always try to find my build with every profession instead of running in a forum and copy the meta.

feel free to contact me

NargofWoV.4267:

Scrotbag.9715:

1) Not really. Every class is different and writing something like this is just lazy and untrue.

2) There are many viable builds… The problem is you just need to play them correctly to maximise them. You can’t play every build the same

3) Speak for yourself… i.e. Trap build = never having to worry about a thief again. It’s the same as above really, you can’t treat every class with the same approach. If you do, you deserve to get whipped.

4) I can only assume you haven’t played the game since the recent patch that buffed spirits. If you need confirmation of this, go play sPvP or read the forums. Spirit rangers are solid in sPvP resulting in mass QQ on forums about them.

I can’t stand posts like this. If you post a massive moan about your class with the classic and incredibly boring “If we don’t get a buff I’m quitting” then I pray for 2 things. 1) a nerf 2) you to be true to your word and quit.

We really don’t need any more whingers in this class forum.

1). While every class is different, you can get away with a single build and play everything fairly well with other classes, where you can’t with a ranger. Casual Player Unfriendly.

2). I love posts that say, " Oh to beat this class you should use this traits, this armor, this weapon, swap this pet out, move here, wait for them to try to do X, then hit Y and WIN!" The Ranger class lacks adaptability. Casual Player Unfriendly.

3). “you can’t treat every class with the same approach” Gee, ok, hang on Cond. Necro while I run to Lion’s Arch to respect, re gear, and retrait, then I will come back and show you something! Casual Player unfriendly.

4). I’ve yet to step foot in an Spvp event… I don’t play this game for that type of play. Could care less how the ranger plays in that environment.

1.) wrong. Surely you can spec a allround build. But there is no jack of all trades device.
2.) same with every other profession. its so massively exaggerated.
3.) see also 2.)
4.) what about people that don’t care about PvE?

so looking at your points, it seems clearly to me that you lack class adaptability.

What’s a “whingers” ?

if you can’t figure out it by yourself, then there is nothing left to be added.

Yelloweyedemon.2860:

From this update I want people to stop crying, learn how to play their classes, 500 gold, 12k gems, an exclusive new awesome outfit available only to me, the title “World Saviour” and a rock n roll power-slide for finisher.

Please?

the sad thing is, everything is easier to get then your first point.

Akenatwn.6813:

Hi there! I’m quite new to the game and i started with a mesmer, which i find a very interesting proffesion this far. I often find myself having two clones and a phantasm and thinking :" now it would be nice to shatter…but if i shatter i lose my phantasm, which deals a lot of damage". So this is my proposition: what if we could somehow have a specific shatter that shatters only our clones?

yep thats a little bit of mesmer playing experience. You get the best even out of a shatterspec, if you let your Phantasms attack once and then shatter. Once you get used to it, its easy. Sure, if you need heavy burst or quick dmg, just blow them up.

Yaki.9563:

I liked the way the old runes of speed were. +25% with swiftness duration and swiftness proc doesn’t make any sense. +5% stacking speed does.

25% runspeed opens up many possibilies on many professions. 5% stacking speed does not.

the build itself seems well rounded, i think it would work.

Some points i would look at:
- Retaliation scales with power. It isn’t worth a major trait with a rabid setup.
- if you want to keep the staff, I would change the offhand Sw to pistol. Sw skills are entirely power based (the block hits like a truck and the phantasm too). You get a crazy combo with traited pistol and chaos storm (100% projectile finisher = 8 stacks bleeding & confusion).
Otherwise if keeping the sw, i would change your gear towards rampagers (i fell in love with it recently)
- Don’t know if you can pressure enough to down anyone with a condition remove.
- Don’t know if i would take the torment runeset, not sure if its worth with torment on block.

i would trait like this, if you want to keep your distribution

http://www.twitch.tv/guildwars2

themenaceofseventhdimension.2075:

Does anyone have any clue how the Direct Power damage and Condition damage is gonna be changed in next patch? Like if Power gets stronger while condi gets weaker, or if Condi gets stronger and power gets weaker, or if both get stronger or both get weaker.

all we know is that they want to look at condition scaling. thats it.

Xaylin.1860:

The 6th bonus is bugged on those runes at the moment. You won’t get the 25% bonus.

the 25% runspeed bonus on the traveler runeset works fine.

Tarinis.6054:

High survivability, excellent damage, wanted in groups all the time. Only con: boring as hell

fixed the OP

so then, my point of view:

1. Don’t try to make a jack of all trades build. Think about what skills you prefer and then try if you could build around them. In your case it seems you prefer glamour skills.

2. Healing power is a wasted stat imho at least for mesmers. Go for survivability with toughness (rabid stats), vitality (carrion stats) or vit/toughness/cond (dire stats). I would mix between these.
Torch without supporting traits (Dom IX, PU) is not worth it imho.

3. Your sigils are bad. Vulnerability does nothing to your build (assuming condition) because it doesn’t affect conditions. Bleeding sigil is bad too with your gearchoice, with 14% crit you will never get bleed stacks ticking.
If you want to push your condition duration, go with sigil of malice and food.

3. Your runechoices are bad. Do you really think 2 vampirisms help with your survivabilty? they don’t.
Look at your stats, your weakness, then choose your runeset accordingly.

4. Your Utilities are bad. Not the skills themself, veil and portal are great. But they are situational. Veils cd is simply far to long even traited, and the stealth isn’t worth it without PU.

thats my 2c after a quick look at your build. I have adjusted it quickly , how i would build assuming my thoughts about your plan are right.
Inspirationtraits can be swapped to focus, scepter or glamour enhancement.

Lahel.6381:

So after having fought a couple of 1v1’s today and a single 1v2 (ranger+ele) with a 10/30/30 variant I can say I value the traited pistol, the extra precision and crit damage over confusion on shatter, BUT I simply cannot get myself to use ethereal fields while having pistol traited, yes I may be gimping myself but I don’t believe that it is working as intended and I do not want to depend on that “bug”, besides I’ve come to love Arcane Thievery so much that I hardly ever swap it out for null field or iDisenchanter.

That being said, I appreciate your feedback and I thank you for helping me improve upon my build Blutstein. I also realise our builds are similar but I’d like to think they are still far apart

Thank you I know you like it

Manipulations are great, if you like you can trait the CD as well, i do sometimes.
At the moment I try to incorporate mantras (will be buffed next patch) and its far better than I thought (daze, power cleanse, healing mantra and trait) once you get used to it.

I think, we are not so far away as you think. You choose the condition way, with the added survivability from toughness you can trait more offensive beneath your personal must-haves due to your playstyle. My glassy gear let PU be the better choice.
But first runs with your choice (CI) are good as well, although I have to adjust my gear slightly towards more survivability.

I started with beserk gear (its great too, but traitchoices are different, because clonedeaths didn’t hurt.) Then I switched to a rabid condition setup like you: My conditions then hurt, but the powerheavy skillsof my desired weapon-combinations (Offhand-Sword is my musthave, can’t go without it, can’t count how often the added block beneath scepter or/and the interrupt/daze saved my life) hit like a wet noodle. Overall it felt not optimised enough again.
After a while i choose to try out the proscribed rampager setup, hoping that I don’t invest for nothing (remembering back that some known forummesmers heavily advised me against it)

Guess what? People melt left and right. After an evening WvW I was so sure that Rampagers is my way to go.

I’m glad, you found your way

NargofWoV.4267:

Now having played a Warrior at 80, I truly don’t understand how Barrage isn’t a fire and forget ability, that we have to stand still to fire it off, especially when the Warrior has as good of an ability that is fire and forget. >Baffled<

mainly because a ranger is a ranger and a warrior is a warrior. Pls stop compairing professions. Go play your warrior.
Or are you complaining about applejuice, that it doesn’t taste like orangejuice although both is juice?

Hell, i’m tired of such complaints, its so pathetic.

I’ve leveled my ranger not long ago with a beastmaster condition build and had tons of fun. Never laid down my sword, for me it feels the ranged weapons are not good and somehow boring to use and not nearly as effective and funny as melee.

Now with 80 and decked with exotics I switched to a trap build with Sw/Wh Axe/Axe im Rampagers and its really fun and very rewarding. Sure, its room for further tweaking since i’m relativly new to the class, but ranger is fun and imho well designed.
The dmg seems fine to me (and i’ve every profession at 80 except warrior, couldn’t get her above 30 because its so terrible boring that i never touched her again).

Just look to find your own build instead of copying some traits a few people post in the forums, because they have found their build. Thats a ‘problem’ i came across every day.

Lahel.6381:

I shatter and let my clones die in every fight, so how is one of my traits wasted every fight? I get something out of letting them die and I get something out of shattering them.

You don’t see my point.

Let me explain: So if your clone is out, you either shatter (so your traits for clone-death are wasted, because shattering doesn’t count as clonedeath) or summon the next clone (clone dies, so your shatter trait is wasted). You can do what you want: you will never benefit from both. Thats simply a fact!

So let us throw in some numbers:

So in the best case for F1 shattering with 3 illusions up:
3 Stacks confusion for 3 sec for 3 Illusions

and no illusion left (so no bonus heal, no meatshield, no chance for distortion (f4-Shatter). One dodgeroll more and you have one clone.

Lets compare that with clonedeath:

The best case for further summoning clones with 3 Illusions up:

Crippling (3s)
1 Confusion (3s)

Weakness (3 s) or 3 Bleeding (5 s) or 3 Vulnerability (5 s)

thats for 1 replaced clone

and you have still 3 illusions left, thats around 2000 extra healing through ether feast every 20 sec, 3 meatshields with bleeding on crit AND you can even shatter for emergency. One dodgeroll more and you put up the conditions again!

And I don’t even take in account, that you have 5 points to distribute left and could get 20sec pistol-CD or or or…

So tell me, where should be the synergy for this 5 points minor trait? it doesn’t exist.
Unpredictability is really not an argument for me. Fighting another player is almost always unpredictable unlike pve-stuff.

I tested the build on weekend and for me it feels totally misplaced. I think you want to much: clonedeath, shatter AND Phantasm Dmg. You get more out of it, if you specialize yourself a little bit more. Did you even try out my suggestions?

But Lhahel is talking about one F3 Shatter and chaindaze through 3 perfectly placed clones, arriving at the target every second after another in the heat of the battle and environment, i’m curious how to archive that.

It can be tricky I’ll give you that, but unless you get flustered and disoriented in combat and can’t keep a cool head, it is not as hard to achieve as you’d think.[/quote]

if you ask me, its not tricky, its a lucky coincidence. In fact nothing you can relie on because you have to carefully prepare this action, you have to take to many circumstances in account that your dazechain works. If your foe runs in the opposite direction, you can start again! Not to mention the awful cd without points in illusions.

Perhaps you are a far better player than me, but i don’t believe that you could use your daze-chain as a reliable source every fight only through clever clone placing.
I really wanna see a video how you archiv that chain (with planned placement not just pure luck) on the battlefield.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

@Lahel: Hey could you put the revised traits in the original link? It’s a bit confusing to have both links to the new and old version.

blutstein.2468:

you’ve no chance to remove the cripple constantly. The only profession is stealth-thief with remove on stealth but because of the stealth and the ability to reengage (we all know that). Opposed to your immo every few sec if you land an interrupt, this is the condition that was instantly removed because you can’t reapply it with one dodge-roll like the cripple.

Shatter F1 and F2 in a condition build without shatter-cd is completly crap, sry. how much dmg could this be? 500 per clone? Cry of frustration untraited is crap too.
And the mainpoint is: if you would produce more clones you would get so much more out of your chosen traits: Crippling, weakness, bleeding, confusion. And have your clones up for bleeding stacks, meatshield and your bonusheal.

And you choose to shatter for ridiculous direct dmg and a short confusion. On top of that if your clones are away from your opponent, he can dodge easily out of your shatter. and if not, its not even dangerous because of little dmg and short confusion.

and sry, i ve to giggle at your chaindazing. maybe against pve dumbkitten or lucky throws in a zerg but not against an opponent with half a brain. how often have you managed this, if you even can’t predict if your clone attacks the target you want, and not the white rabbid in the other direction?
And then youve to wait long, long, long 42 secs for your next try. No thanks, thats clearly not fun. the only shatter i use as my last panic button is f4. Sometimes F1 to finish one down, but most of the time its cleary better to do your clonespam thing and let the explosions do their work.

And lastly, I have no problem generating clones without reduced cd on sword and pistol.

sure are you generating clones. But not nearly as much as it could be. you do not get as much out of your traits as you can. instead you are shattering (supported with one lousy minor trait) or let your phantasm do their work (supported with one trait out of how many? 5? 6?)

Don’t get me wrong, i’m sure your build works, but it could work better if you look more precisely at the synergies your trait setup provides.

I think you’re looking at the build with a different playstyle strategy than how Lahel intended.

• Those 5 points for confusion do make a difference. iLeap, Bullet, and Chaotic Interruption leave enough clone-shatter opportunities to stack confusion without even using iDuelist. The shatters aren’t a main damage source but help keep constant stacks of confusion on an opponent when Duelist has nothing to combo through.

mhmm sure it fits a little bit but hey its simply logical… so many traits for clone-death (esp. confusion on clone death ) AND confusion on shatter. so one trait is definitifly wasted every fight. If shatter for confusion then go 20/0/10 and 33% confusionduration. thats what i mean with: Don’t get me wrong, i’m sure your build works, but it could work better if you look more precisely at the synergies your trait setup provides.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• The chain dazing is fine. DazeMantra> Bullet> Curtain> DazeMantra alone would take someone out of a fight for around 5 seconds unless they blow their stunbreaks, and that’s one of many potential stunlock combos this build has without even considering Chaotic Interruption or Diversion.

no question this chaindaze works, look at my build, lockdowns are my bread and butter. with Sw/Sw and Sc/P I can chaindaze too easily.
But Lhahel is talking about one F3 Shatter and chaindaze through 3 perfectly placed clones, arriving at the target every second after another in the heat of the battle and environment, i’m curious how to archive that.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

• Shattering is all in the technique. Of course it’s gonna be harder to shatter with ranged clones than sword clones, and yer gonna run the risk of opponents dodging but that’s the same issue for any shatter build.

This build, like a few other lockdown builds, uses both Shatters AND Phantasms for damage. That’s part of what makes them so difficult, but it works out pretty well when you spend time with the build.

Every good mesmer should shatter, its core mechanic of the class, personally the most innovative i’ve ever played (loved the illusionist in EQ2 too). Its build-independent.

All I say that he should look a little bit closer at the synergies and his traits.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Gozzo.7380:

well as the term hybrid got broadened here, there are actually few non hybrid builds.

- mix of denfensive and offensive stats: hybrid
- any sort of damage (power or condi) and one or two stuns: hybrid
- full zerker but carry signet of inspirat for boonsharing: hybrid support/damage

so most builds then are hybrid. a standard pu/condi build is hybrid as it utilizes stealth and condidamage (you can run condidamage without stealth).

if hybrid is does not solely apply to the source of damage you use, but also encompasses the utilization of different tools given to a mesmer (and gear available) then there have always been many hybrid builds and only very few non hybrids.

This is what I’m not too certain about. If a condition build uses stealth as it’s method of defense, how exactly would that make it any more of a hybrid than a condition build that uses teleports? You can’t necessarily make a “stealth” build because stealth isn’t something to build around, its a defensive option for any sort of build.

for me, hybrid means condition – power ( &critdmg). which weapons or tools you choose to inflict the dmg is irregular. Clearly. Nothing else.

Dietzen.6127:

I’ve been starting to wonder if a mix of condi and dd is better than pure condi. Met a great and friendly mesmer in wvw who had a hybrid build and he out damaged me immensely. The weirdest thing was, he had very similar stats as my build! He had less condi dmg ofc but he had nearly as much toughness, way more power crit chance and crit dmg. So he hurt me both when hitting me AND his condis were hitting hard, ouch hehe

i had to choose my set for the (at least for me) extremly expensive traveler runes, and decided rampagers is the way to go. Never looked back, i barely touch my other sets. it feels rounder and by far better And imho the way a mesmer leans toward, especially if i look at some weapon-skill designs

Only negative effect is the condition cap in pve, but for me its acceptable, every content is doable, so its fine.

Lahel.6381:

And you choose to shatter for ridiculous direct dmg and a short confusion. On top of that if your clones are away from your opponent, he can dodge easily out of your shatter. and if not, its not even dangerous because of little dmg and short confusion.

Can’t dodge while immobilized.

and sry, i ve to giggle at your chaindazing. maybe against pve dumbkitten or lucky throws in a zerg but not against an opponent with half a brain. how often have you managed this, if you even can’t predict if your clone attacks the target you want, and not the white rabbid in the other direction?

Quite often actually, I haven’t run into many problems with the surrounding wild life.

Don’t get me wrong, i’m sure your build works, but it could work better if you look more precisely at the synergies your trait setup provides.

For my playstyle, and the playstyle I’m going for I actually think my traits synergize fairly well.

@lord jim: I know that, but to be honest: do you ever have the overview, how many clones or/and phantasms of you are on the field? your writing is purely theoretical. Especially with dueling X. in a phantasm build yes, but not with dueling X imho.

I do, it’s pretty simple actually o.O and have you tried this spec out, if not aren’t your writing purely theoretical too?

PS: gonna make dinner now, so might be a while before next reply
PPS: This is very good btw, I think we have a good debate going, but I’d much prefer if you didn’t ridicule, it sorta degrades the debate.

sry, don’t want to degrade, no no no but F1-shatter in a condition spec is really bad.

Further I comment tomorrow at work, now its playtime at home

its really a nice discussion)

you’ve no chance to remove the cripple constantly. The only profession is stealth-thief with remove on stealth but because of the stealth and the ability to reengage (we all know that). Opposed to your immo every few sec if you land an interrupt, this is the condition that was instantly removed because you can’t reapply it with one dodge-roll like the cripple.

Shatter F1 and F2 in a condition build without shatter-cd is completly crap, sry. how much dmg could this be? 500 per clone? Cry of frustration untraited is crap too.
And the mainpoint is: if you would produce more clones you would get so much more out of your chosen traits: Crippling, weakness, bleeding, confusion. And have your clones up for bleeding stacks, meatshield and your bonusheal.

And you choose to shatter for ridiculous direct dmg and a short confusion. On top of that if your clones are away from your opponent, he can dodge easily out of your shatter. and if not, its not even dangerous because of little dmg and short confusion.

and sry, i ve to giggle at your chaindazing. maybe against pve dumbkitten or lucky throws in a zerg but not against an opponent with half a brain. how often have you managed this, if you even can’t predict if your clone attacks the target you want, and not the white rabbid in the other direction?
And then youve to wait long, long, long 42 secs for your next try. No thanks, thats clearly not fun. the only shatter i use as my last panic button is f4. Sometimes F1 to finish one down, but most of the time its cleary better to do your clonespam thing and let the explosions do their work.

And lastly, I have no problem generating clones without reduced cd on sword and pistol.

sure are you generating clones. But not nearly as much as it could be. you do not get as much out of your traits as you can. instead you are shattering (supported with one lousy minor trait) or let your phantasm do their work (supported with one trait out of how many? 5? 6?)

Don’t get me wrong, i’m sure your build works, but it could work better if you look more precisely at the synergies your trait setup provides.

@lord jim: I know that, but to be honest: do you ever have the overview, how many clones or/and phantasms of you are on the field? your writing is purely theoretical. Especially with dueling X. in a phantasm build yes, but not with dueling X imho.

Lahel.6381:

blutstein.2468:

oh, I see you already moved 5 points to from dom to illusions. i commented the 15/25/30 build but never the less, why 5 illusions? you never shatter with this build. Here we go again: sword or pistol cd would bring much more to the table. And about the pistol: It is stated that its a bug? never the less its not gamebreaking.
But thats your thing if you dont wanna use it.

I haven’t used CI since a while and thought that it has an internal cd.
If you do an AoE interrupt, its only one foe who is immobilized? it might be that i’m wrong….
If you wanna 30 chaos I would choose PU. Even without the torch its amazing (i use it only with MI and Decoy and its worthy along with all the boons you get from BI.

my head says: its a clonespammer build with interrupts it might be that you never felt it but its a fact: more clones = more dmgprocs. Shorter CD on your weapons = more clones. more immobs, more finishers, more evades, more blocks that spawn even more clones. Its so clearly superior to 5 points in illusion, to power up shatters you never use and 50 condition dmg imho.

As matter of fact I shatter a lot, hence the 5 points in illusions, which gives me a more active control over the pressure I apply to an opponent.

I have more often than not procced CI on several people with just one into the void pull.

Honstly I don’t find PU that great and I don’t wanna rely on it to keep me safe. Playing clever and better is what should keep me safe, and so far that has worked wonders.

reduced cd on sword or pistol might be great, but I feel I get a lot more out of other traits, especially when I don’t feel it is necessary to “waste” a trait to get lower cds when I can get something better, like phantasmal fury for more bleed procs.
Let’s face it, in most condi specs a huge portion of the damage and the pressure comes from bleed on crit procs from illusions.

EDIT: I looked at the build and I’ll ask the same question I once was asked. How much damage does your halting strike do, because if it’s not above 1500 or near 2000 it’s not worth it really.

my halting strike ranges between 2k and 4k (depending on might stacks)

i don’t rely on PU, but for me its clearly the better filler over CI atm. And don’t forget i’m in glasscannon-gear without any toughnesss (besides the toughness from chaos), so its simply an amazing survival-tool in my preferred tree. With clever movement it gets even better!
If you don’t choose Dom V CI might be useful as a control source, but with Dom V your enemy are perma-crippled, with Chaos V most of the time weakened too. so no need for more movement-control imho.
But you’re right, perhaps I have to try it again, because i assumed there is an internal cd.

How is your critchance? I think you should sitting at around 50% with rabid gear. thats enough for bleeding imho.
I have around 60%, with Chaos V i can get to 15 stacks bleeding in no time. Last time i slotted phantasmal fury, i didn’t realize any great improvements as opposed to weapon-cd. Hence, i would choose Dueling XII over phantasmal fury in a clonespam build even with its cd. scepter-auto with haste > more clones > more procs. its very nice to especially with scepter auto but the icd is a bit too long. To make a long story short: Phantasmal fury is for a phantasm build imho, and nothing else.

last but not least: you have to choose your main dmg-source imho.

you shatter often? so 3 of your traits are completly worthless. Your ShatterCDs are way to high to relie on them.
Your main source of dmg comes from phantasm bleeds? so why clone on dodge? In the heat of the battle one dogde too much and there goes your phantasm in a cloud of butterflys and you re waiting around 20 secs for your next main dmg source?
You choose many on-clone-death traits, but you stated its not your dmg source.

think about it! but hey, if it fits your playstyle, go with it. its just my 2c its all about fun

oh, I see you already moved 5 points to from dom to illusions. i commented the 15/25/30 build but never the less, why 5 illusions? you never shatter with this build. Here we go again: sword or pistol cd would bring much more to the table. And about the pistol: It is stated that its a bug? never the less its not gamebreaking.
But thats your thing if you dont wanna use it.

I haven’t used CI since a while and thought that it has an internal cd.
If you do an AoE interrupt, its only one foe who is immobilized? it might be that i’m wrong….
If you wanna 30 chaos I would choose PU. Even without the torch its amazing (i use it only with MI and Decoy and its worthy along with all the boons you get from BI.

my head says: its a clonespammer build with interrupts it might be that you never felt it but its a fact: more clones = more dmgprocs. Shorter CD on your weapons = more clones. more immobs, more finishers, more evades, more blocks that spawn even more clones. Its so clearly superior to 5 points in illusion, to power up shatters you never use and 50 condition dmg imho.

edit: here a little selfquote from another thread, its my favorite build atm:

blutstein.2468:

i like my rampagers set. in terms of dungeon-runs and the condition cap it really kinda suck (switch to phantasm/berserk) but i love it in wvw or solo.

I run a interrupt clonespammer build using rampagers. 2nd & 3rd utility are situational. I like the reactive counter playstyle.

with 25 might i sit at nearly 1600 condition dmg, and it adds up quickly.

why don’t you spec 30 in dueling for the pistol cd and 100% projectile finisher?
It brings so much more to the table then a few stacks vulnerability. And if you spam clones, you can get rid of phantasmal fury and take sword cd. Your leap and your phantasm-cd is reduced >> more clones >> more procs.

chaotic interruption isn’t imho worthy a gm slot due to internal cd and the great area control (AE cripple, sword immo, 2 blocks) with this sort of build.

shatter heavy build without illusion-points? No, thanks.

I would go 0/20/30/0/20, if i want to stealth shatter, but hey, thats me.

Kaiyanwan.8521:

I tried to stay out of all this menace here and menace there stuff. I really tried. But this thread is just too much. No hybrid builds on this forum? Nearly unexplored for mesmers?

How about no. You want to promote your build, yeah. But do not start a kitten new thread full of stupid talk just to do so. Hell even I have a hybrid build and I am a classical DD player: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-Kai-s-Complete-PvE-Compendium/first#post2848356 called Random Pain.

And yes it is 10/30/30/0/0 and yes it was there before your build and no, I didn’t have to ask the whole community to get it working.

Honestly just stop it, please.

so, if he bothers you with his threads, don’t read and therefore don’t post in it. Hell, ignore him so you don’t even see his threads. But its an official forum and you are not the forum police, aren’t you?

i like my rampagers set. in terms of dungeon-runs and the condition cap it really kinda suck (switch to phantasm/berserk) but i love it in wvw or solo.

I run a interrupt clonespammer build using rampagers. 2nd & 3rd utility are situational. I like the reactive counter playstyle.

with 25 might i sit at nearly 1600 condition dmg, and it adds up quickly.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Well, rampager is really really squishy. You have pretty much 0 defense with it, base toughness, barely more than base hp, etc. If anything so much as touches you, you’ll squish like the squishiest squishy that has ever been squashed.

That being said, this is workable, you just need a massive amount of evasion and kiting and whatnot. Your traits are a little wonky though, you shouldn’t be taking deceptive evasion in a phantasm build, you should trait either pistol or sword instead.

Squishy like any other berserk mesmer. as a mesmer you do not really need that much defense through your equip imho.

@selan: such a see of tears. Get over it and adapt your skills, mesmers are fine.

Everyone laughs or rails at the torch. Trait it, pair it with Powercleanse. Problem solved.

How I hate this ’a warrior does this, a necro does that, a ranger this. Mesmers are broken, We need to have heavy armor with deathshroud and a pet! ’-mentality. Compairing meteor shower with confusion is … lets call it weird!

colesy.8490:

Null Field and Phantasmal Disenchanter are better condition removal anyway.

Torch is terrible for PvE.

yeah, but using up a utility slot and have longer cd… but you’re right, torch isn’t really for pve

the only purpose you can use the torch for is condition removal or boon overkill (PU). With Signet of Inspiration you can share them to your party. Thats it with the torch.

Xyonon.3987:

The sword is great against enemies with a single target nuke or high damage. The iSwordsman deals about the same DpS as the iDuellist (pistol) but has no combo finisher. However it can NOT be meatshielded (sniper). It also has a high damage reflecting block on 4 with a low cd.

TL;DR: general go focus, against bosses or some situations pistol or sword. As for me, I got them all ready in my inventory.

wrong. iSwordsman has a leap finisher .

The Second Butterfly[WvW-Hybrid-PvE] [UPDATE OCT15]

Another clone spammer build with heavy focus on interrupts. And again (thanks Anet) one of the new runesets, the travelers runeset, fits perfectly.
I started the development of this build with berserk-gear and other non-condition-based traits, and while its perfectly playable, it doesn’t feel as rounded as it could be. So I tweaked and practised again and again, adding more and more condition dmg to the build. Then I decided to go with a rampager setup and after a few hours WvW i knew i finally found the right gear.

I’ve every profession at 80 (except warriors, they are soooo boring to play) and it helps alot to predict their actions for well timed interrupts. Its a very rewarding, reactive gameplay that punishes player for almost every action (2 blocks, confusion, torment, interrupts).
I play this traitsetup in PvE too, but the playstyle entirely changes if you don’t focus on interrupts.

TRAITS
[DOMINATION]

• (II) Halting Strike
  Dmg on interrupt. Since the build centers around interrupts, its really nice. I’ve seen 4k Halting Strike Crits with full mightstacks.

[DUELING]

• (IV) Blade Training
  Mandatory due to Sword/Sword-Setup – 20% CD Reduction.

• (IX) Duelist Discipline
  20% CD Reduction and more Range. Perfect Phantasm for Hybrid builds due to direct damage attack with added bleeds

• (X) Deceptive Evasion
  More Clones – more procs (minor GM Dueling, Chaos V). Core-Trait

[CHAOS]

• (V) Debilitating Dissipation
  Clone spammer build, so self explanatory. Core-Trait

• (VIII) Bountiful Interruption
  With Sword-Daze, F3 and Magic Bullet you get a whole lot of interrupt-procs. Fairly easy to maintain around 20 stacks Might Core-Trait

• (X) Prismatic Understanding
  more boons, more survivability. I find that Decoy and MI are enough to justify PU, but sometimes I switch to Chaotic Interruption

UTILITIES
Always slotted is signet of domination. 3 Sec Stun (hard to land due to the casttime but hey, interrupts are handy). The other two depend on my traitssetup. If choosing PU -> Decoy, nullfield or Mantra of Resolve. If choosing CI -> blink, Mantra of Resolve, Mantra of Distraction for another interrupt.

RUNESET
Traveler runes
It covers one of the mesmer weakness and helps alot in WvW without the need of a focus

Alternatives:
For the hybrid setup, there are many valuable runesets. You can go for boonduration, might duration or any other runesets you feel the need for, even condition runes. But imho nothing beats the traveler-set.

hi community,

I play my cute Sylvari Mesmer Saracena since release (although i leveled every profession to 80) and enjoy it the most of all professions.
I’m on Elona Reach and enjoy nearly every part of this wonderful game besides tPvP.
Since nearly everytime I roam (mostly solo or little group) I get questions about my builds, so I ’ve decided to posts my (atm. two) favorite builds. I tweaked them alot the last weeks until they fit perfectly my playstyle, especially the hybrid one.
I posted the first build about a month ago, sadly without any comment

Since my mesmers name is Saracena Blutwind, I call my little compilation ‘Saracenas Butterflys’ Lets go:

The First Butterfly[WvW-Condition-SoloPvE] [UPDATE OCT15]

Its basically a clone spammer condition build with high confusion stacks and -duration, covered with other conditions. The new perplexity runeset fits perfectly. Confusion duration adds up: 30% from perplexity, 33% from Master of misdirection and 40% from food.

TRAITS
[DUELING]

• (II) Phantasmal Fury
  I choose PF because of the duelist. Fury = more bleeds = more fun (at least for me

• (IX) Duelist Discipline
  100% projectile finisher is fixed now, so no more 8 bleed & 8 confusion stacks (Etheral Combo) but never the less viable. 20% CD Reduction.

• (X) Deceptive Evasion
  More Clones – more procs (minor GM Dueling, Chaos V). Core-Trait

[CHAOS]

• (V) Debilitating Dissipation
  Clone spammer build, so self explanatory. Core-Trait

• (VIII) Bountiful Interruption
  With Chaos Storm, F3 and Magic Bullet you get a whole lot of interrupt-procs. Fairly easy to maintain around 10-20 stacks Might

• (X) Chaotic Dampening
  Staff Cooldowns = more Combofields with pistol combos, more interrupts, more fun (at least for me)

[ILLUSIONS]

• (V) Master of misdirection
  more and longer confusions, yey!

UTILITIES
Always slotted is signet of domination. 3 Sec Stun (hard to land due to the casttime but hey, interrupts are handy). the other two slots i change frequently between Manipulations and Glamour-Combofields. Make sure you have at least one stunbreaker (you have phase retreat too) and one condition-removal-tool slotted. Standard setup is blink, signet of domination, nullfield.

RUNESET

perplexity runes (i know its OP in its current state)
It fits perfectly due the many sources of interrupts and our confusion-infliction.

Alternatives:
Undead-Runes
(cheap, good synergy for the 6th bonus for maxing out chaos)

Scavenging-Runes
(working fine too, but the 6th bonus doesn’t bring much to the table)

Noble-Runes
(with chaos VIII and in conjunction with a sigil of battle its easy to maintain 10-20 stacks might)

MarkusParkus.8467:

10/30/0/0/30 staff/sword+torch is a great burst shatter build.

the distribution is right, something like that

But I wouldn’t choose torch because its mainly an condition offhand with the worst phantasm (at least in a power build) with the highest cooldown. Sw/Sw or Sw/F for traveling. Let the phantasm hit once and then shatter. Really great burst (but squishy, good movement recommended )

Ascii.9726:

@blutstein.2468
I’m all for critics and opinions, infact i never dismissed sorrow without explanations, i just prefer people who criticize a GvG WvW build to actually play GvG WvW in the first place, it would be like me criticizing tPvP builds when i hardly if ever tPvP.

ah, so how do you come to the conclusion, that he never WvWs? And what exactly makes you a better player if you play more in WvW? thats simply not an argument, its an somehow arrogant statement imho.

and sry for that: but sorrow has right, choosing a trait to power up a 3 min cd skill is questionable. if you find it worthy for your playstyle, go with it, but its questionable.

But now i’m out of this thread. I get that feeling that I waste my time too, especially if i take a look at your sig.

sorrow.2364:

Ascii.9726:

I play this build at least 6 hours everyday in T1 WvW both commanding and following, im in the highest ranked NA GvG guild fighting some of the best guilds in the game.

Maybe you shouldn’t be questioning my experiences and more informing us of yours which you still haven’t done.

And here we are again with the “I’m better than you” and “I speak only the truth” arguments.
I’m wasting my time here, I should have realized it before.

some people simply doesnt want critics (even if they say so). They only want to hear ‘this is the best, so much fun, thank you for enlightenment’, thats it. Sad but true.

Luke.4562:

Gnat.9405:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqLt4dD93pU

I checked this video yet. I thank you, but it’s outdated, it is a bit old, i was looking for something which came out after the last 2 patches (in which the build i’m talking about got some modifies).
Over that it’s exactly what i don’t want to do: going with full berserk gear.

Thanks everyone for the feedback, i’m going to keep your hints in mind.

its not that full berserk gear is written in stone. If you feel yourself squishy, feel free to mix in some Cavaliers or knights pieces.

I run a 30/0/10/0/30 build with berserk-cav mix (1700 toughness) and it feels very powerful.

If you use a GS, the sigil of battle is a good choice, because the amount of direkt dmg is really good (since its a Powerweapon aside form the iZerkers bleeds). If you are using rabidgear, you lack of power and the might stacks would help you out…

thats nearly the same build i’m using, its so much fun! i swapped out some berserks for rampagers because you can put up a lot of conditions and works fine too. Full celestials would be working to….

Nretep.2564:

Without much experience:

• Don’t use Sword in WvW; I deals decent damage but to melee in WvW you need locking and high burst, to kill those who want to run away from you. #3-2 + #2 sure seem to fulfill those things, but they’re not enough.
• Don’t use Mantras in PvP (unless it’s a mantra burst build); the recharging kills you if you don’t fnish your target in “one burst”

When I said to use mantras, I mainly means healing one. But since I said to use the charges while sword fighting, it means that it’s not suited for PvP or WvW (see above).

this depends entirely on personal playstyle. I would say, in many situations the sword is far superior to scepter due to evasion, an immobilize and a leap combofinisher. A mesmer has so many options getting out of melee in a matter of seconds, so fighting in melee is really not an issue. The scepter has its place (i use often both) but the long attackchain of 1 and the activation time of 3 is often a problem. the only way to make sure that Sc 3 connects is to engage from stealth. Otherwise it get dodged 4/5 trys.

The mantras are exactly the same: i use it sometimes for a very good condiremoval. Sure, it eats up a utility slot, but its viable….

Dasboba.1652:

The question is, can a diversion shatter cause more than one interupt on a single target?

only in pve on deviant stacks.

Ryuujin.8236:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Fancy sharing the proof on this?
To me Greatsword best offensive and staff best defensive and i would like to see your “proof” that the sword is better

Staff I can discount entirely in the DPS stakes. it’s strictly single target, the projectiles do low damage, as does Chaos Storm, iMage is good but again it’s single target and comparable to Duellist if you really must use a single target ranged phantasm so I won’t waste space here analysis staff DPS. As for the other two

Firstly – the quantitative, looking at the weapon’s primary attacks using the basic values.

Sword
#1 Sword Chain
Damage: (202 + 202 + 336/504) = 740 to 908 over ~2 seconds
DPS: |412| DPS

#2 Blurred Frenzy
Damage: 808 over 2 seconds
DPS: 404 DPS
DPS/CD: ~67 DPS

Greatsword
#1 Spatial Surge
Damage: 348 over 1.5 seconds (at 900 range)
DPS: 232 DPS

#2 Mirror Blade
Damage: 259 per bounce.
DPS: 345 DPS
DPS/CD: ~32 DPS

Now, as for phantasms, iZerker is a great phantasm for DPS, it’s powerful, it’s AoE – hence I personally use greatsword as my ranged swap weapon. However, Warden does considerably more damage when you’re in your sword swap – DPS counting is largely irrelevant on phantasms since they do not occupy the mesmer, once cast the phantasm does it’s own thing so total damage dealt and it’s cooldown is the only factor.

Warden
Damage: 3,816
DPS/CD: ~152 DPS

Zerker
Damage: 784
DPS/CD: ~39 DPS

…yeahhh. (I suspect the tooltip for zerker is broken, it does far more damage than this in practice. Dealing ~1/2 to 2/3 the damage of warden)

However you would be right in pointing out zerker is more likely to land it’s full chain of hits than warden. But I’m not contesting that warden and zerker both have their time and place. As I’ve said i use GS/Sword/Focus – because there are occasions where a sword doesn’t cut it (pun intended).

So, onto the qualitative.

GS1 only hits a single target at a time unless they kindly stand in a neat line, you might say “hey! – GS2 can bounce and hit multiple targets, why have you omitted that in your calculation” the answer is simply “Because sword can hit multiple targets too on every single attack” – not only is sword doing more straight DPS, it’s able to hit multiple targets as an inherent feature.

Additionally, Sword #2 can evade every attack thrown at you for 2 seconds every 9-12, seconds on demand so it boasts some serious defence in there whereas GS5 has a long cooldown and can scatter enemies making it inadvisable in teamplay. Both GS and Sword can strip boons (skill 1 and 3 respectively). Stakitten also has a long cooldown and only reliably blocks 1 hit through aegis, and since the nerf to chaos armour… it’s really just… bad. (before you say "but staff is better for party defence! – I should add i never claimed sword was better if you need to protect you party, staff is the way to go.)

As for phantasms, Zerker is good but it’s not the best – it’s still a GREAT choice, but it still doesn’t invalidate the analysis of sword because sword has even better phantasms to choose from.

In conclusion:

Sword exceeds the DPS of GS and Staff in every situation, boasts robust self defence options and provides a great deal of versatility.

I have to giggle every time I see some theorycrafters throwing around some numbers and tell other people whats best.

I’m running a 20/20/30/0/0 clonespammer build with a hybrid setup, rampagers cavalier &berserks. The added conditions are really nice and cover mostly the important ones. Right now i’m sitting at 75% critdmg and 600 Conddmg not counting might stacks (around 10-15 stacks through sigils and GS and if i get an interrupt it racks up to 25 stacks.
in tougher fights (engaging 2+ people) I switch to traited torch.

what i love is that I can use pretty much every weapon combo and be effective.
for roaming you can slot sw/f sc/t and have an fantastic interrupt source with TC with swiftness and with careful use of the warden you can kill some people very quickly.
You can trait staff, sword (ofc sword offhand too), GS, torch. If i need more illusions power trait 15% illusion dmg and take GS and SW/P with interrupt traits. If you know the professions and their skills, its very powerful.

Some people here don’t unterstand the synergy and wanna tell me how to play, but fools are everywhere