Guild Wars 2

Even if it’s (2) then what exactly would you propose Arena.net have done instead? Pretend Cantha doesn’t exist? NOT make Guild Wars 2? I really don’t get how it could possibly be Arena.net’s fault that their publisher said, “No Cantha.”

Obsidian.1328:

It’s not speculation though: “At one point during development, this area was originally a completed Canthan district and included a blend of Asian architectures. However, this mix of styles received negative feedback from China and Korea, since those gaming markets traditionally prefer a uniform design. Due to time constraints the district was replaced by the Great Collapse.”

Then why are we having this argument again?

Because if we KNOW why NCSoft did it (personally I’ve never seen confirmation of the italicized), why would you be calling bull kitten? That’s their reason, and if they say “no”, it means “no.” Arena.net can’t do a kittened thing about it other than start over… and that could take a LOT of time to remake everything from scratch.

Obsidian.1328:

Why did NCSoft approve of it whole hog in GW1 then? It doesn’t make sense.

Well, one thing to remember is that (despite federal rulings), companies and corporations AREN’T people. It’s not a static entity with the same people in charge making the same decisions every time. What one executive thinks is okay can do a complete 180 once someone else is making the decision.

And another thing to remember is that the reason NCSoft said “no” is pure speculation. The only thing we know for certain is that NCSoft said “no” (it’s why the Queen’s Jubilee is where the Canthan District was supposed to be, remember). There could be an entirely different reason.

Obsidian.1328:

The thing is, it wasn’t a point of contention back in GW1. Cantha is less a Korean/Japanese/Chinese mix, and more a world unto itself which borrows some thematic elements from many different Eastern cultures. I know for a fact the devs back then purposely tried to not make it seem like it represented any particular culture. NCSoft isn’t backing down from this for any moral or respectful reasons, they are doing it because they think it will hurt sales. That’s really the only reason. How can you get behind that?

Oh, I can GUARANTEE you that’s the reason. Someone at NCSoft decided it was a potential powder keg, and didn’t want to see it lit. Whether or not it was a legitimate worry (I think it’s more legitimate than the fans want to believe, but less of a problem than NCSoft thinks it is), is largely irrelevant.

Nonetheless, Arena.net’s hands are tied here. They can’t “stand their ground.” They can’t “insist” that NCSoft publish or support a Canthan expansion or Living Story content. NCSoft holds ALL the power here. Arena.net does what they say, or Arena.net’s games do not get published.

So if NCSoft says “No Cantha”, that means “No Cantha”, no matter how much fans demand it.

My suspicion is that NCSoft saw the Canthan-themed content, threw it in the trashbin, and said, “No. Start over.” Depending on how far along Arena.net had been in development of Canthan content, that can be a LOT of stuff to remake. Arena.net likely can’t say anything in regards to Canthan content because NCSoft hasn’t approved any of it yet.

Palador.2170:

It honestly looks like they’re doing more work to shaft us on this, not less. It’s very disheartening.

It’s really not so much more or less work NOW, as much as what allows them to produce more that can be sold LATER.

Right now, they kinda have to at least try to keep thought to how each individual piece meshes with everything else. When they make a new [x], at least in the back of their mind, they have to try and keep it so that it can match with everything else available.

Not only is this an exercise in futility, it takes up a lot of time.

With their new plan coming up… the only thing they have to concern themselves with is if the outfit matches itself. They don’t have to test and examine how one piece looks with another piece from a different outfit.

Less time spent on each individual outfit means they can make more outfits which (in theory, at least) means a better return on their investment of resources. Will it actually turn out that way? Dunno… it really depends on how many people they kittened off and how many people will embrace the change.

The problem for the mix-n-matchers is that the only way this isn’t a win for Arena.net is if the dissatisfied represent a much larger revenue bloc than those who like what the new system will be (because due to the lower cost and increased production, if the two blocs are anywhere near even it still means more profit to A.net at the end of the day).

They’ve made a calculated business decision. But a logical business decision doesn’t always turn out to be the right one.

Viking Jorun.5413:

I don’t get the offense of mixing different Asian cultures to achieve an entirely new one. Cantha is not Chinese, Korean, or Japanese. It’s Cantha. The sooner NCSoft comes to accept it as it’s own culture within a fantasy world, the sooner development can begin on it. ^^

Well, picture it this way…

You’re trying to sell a game to urban kids in Los Angeles featuring a city called Paradise, featuring 1950’s architecture from Georgia, Mississippi, Alabama, and South Carolina, complete with rebel flags waving then saying, “That’s not the South from the Segregation era! That’s Paradise!!!”

I don’t think your target audience would buy it, either metaphorically or literally. Just sayin’.

And yes, I know that it’s not a direct analogy… but it’s the best that I can think of for American players that really captures the sort of animosity that can exist between “Asian” cultures.

I’m just thinking with them trying to push GW2 hard into China that someone at NCSoft decided it was a potential powder keg not worth lighting.

Obsidian.1328:

When was this an issue in GW1? When were the public outcries from cities like Osaka and Shanghai?

I don’t think ANY part of Guild Wars 1 was released in China.

And I recall Factions being by far the lowest selling of the GW1 games in Korea by a pretty wide margin (though I couldn’t tell you where I saw that).

I’ve seen many a way that game companies have tried to handle “legendary” rewards in their games. Hell, in WoW I watched a game company completely do a 180 on the process TWICE (From the long quest and gathering method of Vanilla, to straight up dropping of bosses in BC to going BACK to the long gathering method in WotLK).

And what I noticed? Someone will get righteously kittened off no matter WHAT process is in the game. In the case of having multiple ways, it’s defeated by the simple nature of people to find the path of least resistance.

Even IF GW2 were to add multiple routes, I think you’d see little change to player behavior, because the grind for gold and buy it off the TP will no doubt be the most reliable “easiest” way to go about it.

I’m just not sure it would be worth Arena.net’s time and resources.

Honestly, I really do believe that the hand-wringing from those on high population servers won’t manifest the way they are afraid it will. I really don’t believe their experience is going to change much at all… but we shall see.

Cross-server guilds like TTS or TKS are no doubt going to have a big adjustment period if they want to continue as they are… if they even can… or if they even were to begin with.

For most players, it really will turn out to be much ado about nothing, I suspect.

I mean, I suppose it’s theoretically possible that this mega-server would allow for an instance or two of a reasonably populated “old Orr” for Personal Story purposes while the bulk of the player base could tool around with a “restoring” version.

So I suppose my answer would be a definite “Maybe?”

My suspicion, at least from what items HAVE been made into tonics, the new mechanic is that tonics will be what is used for the Costume Brawl mini-game (with all the skills that come with it), and that outfits will simply be a skin that you apply over your existing armor for combat.

The Ferocity change, at least in terms of what is best for what situation, changes nothing. Berzerker will still be king of PvE. Condition Damage will still be meta for WvW/PvP.

What it DOES do is flatten the curve of spike damage for Berzerker, which I suspect is so that they can better scale all stats for vertical progression down the road (I don’t like that idea, mind you, but that’s my best guess).

Vimph.8965:

Crafted 2 Incinerators.
Soon (april 15th) one of them will become 2000g worth piece of junk.

Here, lemme find the world’s smallest violin to play for you…

Sorry, that would require me having any sympathy for your plight.

Because he’d have no authority to address those other issues, I would wager.

I would suspect that the Blade Shard merchant (and other LS related merchants) will be made available once the second “season” of the LS spins up.

I have an extra Vision Crystal sitting in my bank instead of a Lesser version.

aRestless.6213:

Just for clarification: The new schedule for world boss events will still be introduced as announced, right?

As I understand that entire thing was stuff that would be implemented later in the year as ALL zones made the transition.

Yenrah.8532:

Well, it becomes clear that the megaserver creates more issues than the devs are able to handle.
So how about that:
Server system is not broken. Just needs some adjustment. A lot of existing problems would be fixed by simply making the guesting system a natural part of the game.
What I mean is a clear interface avaliable for every player in-game, separate for each map. Player would be able to check how full is each server’s version of a map and enter whichever he prefers.
With this option, on less popular maps, players would naturally gather on one or two servers. Same for popular maps – players would naturally spread, and with their server’s map being full they would actually be able to choose another server they feel connected to, instead of being pushed to an overflow.
Community not destroyed. RPers at piece. Guesting to an open temple whenever needed still possible. Creating overflows by tequatlorsomething-guilds still possible. No need for silly changes (I’m sorry, but those ARE silly) in temples and waypoints.
Thoughts?

The problem is… players really don’t do things that way. It wouldn’t work the way you think.

What would happen is you have two or three maps crowded, and everyone else complaining they aren’t in one of those three maps. And boy oh boy, would they COMPLAIN.

What you’re suggesting is basically the entire WvW transfer disaster done on a PvE map scale. Sometimes, giving players choice just leads to players not making wise or well-informed decisions, then screaming very loudly that someone else is at fault.

While I’m not convinced the megaserver does everything right, the old system with added choice would most likely be worse, not better.

Baels.3469:

Why don’t you just implement guild halls, as a place in which players from all servers can be universally together.

From there, utilize guild halls to implement NPCs which trigger various activities in an instanced, universally accessible to all guild members ‘form’ . Instanced Raid-tier world bosses (teq etc.), guild-missions, or even whole versions of a map.

We’d get 1) Social Hubs for the guild 2) A clear distinction between Guild Activity and the rest of the game. 3) The rest of the game is still there as it is in it’s current state, we just get BONUS guild activity. – Sorry, not bonus, we ACTUALLY GET guild activity.

But really, I don’t even care about the above.

Guild Halls and GvG pls.

My guess is because they want this content to be inclusionary, not exclusionary. They don’t (and never really have) want guilds to have the ability to choose content solely for them that no one else can participate in.

Whether you like that policy or not, it’s been one policy that Arena.net has not deviated from at all.

As I parse all the information, the conclusions I have reached is that for servers with high population, you will likely see very little difference post the 15th than you do now. My suspicion is that home server is so highly prioritized for that reason.

Where you’ll really see a difference is in lower population servers.

There are other issues (like with the world events) that I am wary of, but at least as it pertains to “community”, those who have settled into high populated worlds for that community I don’t think will see that community scattered.

Becka Williams.4978:

I actually think they should have 3 bosses spawning at once.

And then have legions stomping their feet in fury that they have to choose one and that it’s not fair to everyone in the world?

Now snark aside, I do have some eye-crossing at this development.

1. I get what Arena.net wants to do here. They want players to be able to sign in, and no matter what shell they are in, players can say, “It’s is [x] o’clock, I can go to [y] and do [z].”

The problem here is that it’s simply NOT how MMO players are wired, and they will actively push back against this change. Arena.net, I am telling you right now, the player base WILL reject this as a rule.

The casual players don’t want a schedule, and the elite players want their own instances where they can bar entry to whoever they kitten well please. No matter how much you try to encourage them to break from what they are accustomed to, they WILL refuse.

On top of that, I really don’t get why they’ve spread the world events out so thin. Yes, I understand they don’t want overlap, and yes an entirely different group of people would complain very loudly if there was… but for the casual world roamer, they may only have a two hour block to play (at most), and because their schedules are pretty well locked in, the chances of them having the wiggle room to adjust to see that content is not there.

Personally, a tighter schedule, even it means some world content overlaps each other, seems like the better idea… if you absolutely HAVE to have a static, locked schedule, which I am dubious is necessary to begin with.

2. I do not get the entire “all waypoints that can be contested will look contested unless you are in that zone.” My best guess is that with the megaserver, there’s no way that the game would be able to reliably draw that information for you unless you were in that zone… but I dunno, it sounds like a roundabout added gold sink at first glance.

So much overreacting in this thread.

I’m not surprised.

I think BECAUSE cities tend to move to overflow often is part of the reason WHY they’re applying it to capital cities.

Again, the “megaserver” isn’t just about merging smaller groups from different servers together… it’s also sorting out what would normally be overflows into something more than random assignment.

From how I’m interpreting it…

The normal world shells fill as they currently do with two exceptions:

1) Once a shell is full, instead of randomly assigning you to an overflow with a vacancy, it looks for common variables (home server, guildmates, etc…) and works to put those people with common variables into the same shell.

2) In cases of severely underpopulated main shells, it will move players from several underpopulated shells together (like the underflow idea a lot of players asked for).

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

snide chuckle

“We don’t like the overflow system”
“The overflow system sucks and needs to go”
“We need a better way to make sure we can play with our friends”
“Guesting isn’t good enough”
“The maps are dead, fix it!”

Anet: Introducing the ’MegaServer!" To help pull our scattered population together in a more meaningful way.

“Omg no! This won’t work”
“This screws with playing on my home world”
“I don’t want to play with people I don’t know!”
“How can I make sure I’m not in a ‘noob’ map now?”

kitten ed if they do. kitten ed it they don’t.

Because now the people who wanted these changes are happy and by and large not posting. Instead you have the people who liked the old way, were silent, and only now are coming to voice their concerns.

People who are content say nothing.

People who are dissatisfied complain… usually very loudly.

Okay… it is safe to come out now. The bobbleheads are gone.

Soule’s work for GW1 was great.

It didn’t really mesh as well with GW2. A lot of it was in fact recycled from GW1. I’ve liked what Leif and Maclaine have done so far, and each time out it gets better.

I am sorry… it is my fault.

Wasn’t April Fool’s last year SUPPOSED to be SAB? It kinda gained a life of its own after the fact.

runeblade.7514:

So you rather stop a feature being implemented because you are too selfish to circumvent that?

Okay, lets remove gold because I don’t want some gold spammer whispering me.

I’m not inherently against dueling. But I have generally found that open world dueling tends to bring out some very toxic attitudes that I’m not sure this game needs in the open world setting. And no, I really don’t feel interested in doing extra work to avoid those attitudes when I currently don’t have to.

A specific dueling arena in LA or Black Citadel… I’d be more receptive to that.

Man… I’m glad you all aren’t developing this game, because a lot of those ideas are legitimately terrible.

I mean… that storyline is pure garbage. Is invoking the Mursaat REALLY all it takes to get you people swooning?

GW2 is more “alive” than most MMOs, and more than any I’ve played.

But that really isn’t saying much when you think about it.

Hamfast.8719:

What’s the verdict on our basic town clothes that we had at the start? Will they be skins or a costume? Or will they remain at all? Anyone heard anything or have an educated guess?

My educated guess is that they will be an outfit, as they are still currently “available” (though not in a for purchase sense).

Mazreal Blackknight.1564:

I personally would only not complain as long as try give us an option to auto decline and not have to see the pop up

Still wouldn’t stop harassment from griefers.

I really don’t want to have to “auto decline” AND “block” just so I can continue on the way I already am. Open world dueling really does seem to run contrary to the entire open world cooperation on top of that.

Twyll Blackleaf.9641:

Also, I don’t think most of us expect them to be able to fix everything in two weeks. I do think it’s a good idea to give them a head start on fixing it and to remind them that we want to know that they are dedicated to fixing it and are at least working on a plan to bring the Town Clothes system into a more effective combination with the new Wardrobe.

And I appreciate that very reasoned answer.

Because THAT is something that I think is doable… in time… as long as there is an understanding that what you had before likely isn’t going to be perfectly replicated. They aren’t going to be able to turn back the clock, if you will, but they might be willing to work with you going forward.

Twyll Blackleaf.9641:

Simply ceasing to talk about the whole thing won’t make things any better. I understand your argument for voting with your wallet, but not your argument against voting with words. Your only argument has really been “there’s no point in trying because nobody is listening and nothing can change,” and unless you are The Voice of ANet Speaking Through Chemiclord (which you are not, as that’s Curtis’s job, poor guy), you have absolutely no way of knowing that.

Here’s the thing.

MMOs without a subscription rely on two things:

A) People buying from a cash shop.

B) A large number of players, even if they DON’T buy from the cash shop.

Population is the lifeblood of an MMO. A populated world draws in more people, who a developer hopes will buy from the cash shop (and metrics shows they will).

If you keep playing the game, what that tells a marketer is they just need to offer you the right thing to get you sucking at their teat again. And even if you don’t, they can use the numbers to entice more people in, and those people quite likely WILL give ‘em a tug. Remember the press release about 450,000+ concurrent users or something like that? I can guarantee you they didn’t all buy gems.

In short; continuing to play only encourages them to stay the course. No, it doesn’t seem like it makes much logical sense at first glance; but as long as you are playing, you are an asset to them.

If you really want to send a message, you need to walk away, and take those that feel the way you do with you. That’s not a dismissal, that’s not a cold shoulder. I’m not trying to force you out or say what you think isn’t important. But that’s how you get a company to change course. If this is a big, game-breaking mistake, you need to show them, not tell them.

It’s the reason why we’re swimming in an Ascended grind. It’s the reason why a lot of the original manifesto had to be compromised for the content locusts. Because people weren’t playing, and Arena.net’s numbers were suffering.

I dunno; maybe I’ve just been made too cynical over the years. Maybe this sort of passive resistance will work in this case. But I don’t see it. Arena.net seems pretty kitten committed to this, and I don’t see how they can backtrack on it in two weeks time.

Gene Archer.8560:

So, in a similar question to yourself. How many times does everyone here have to keep up with their posts before you say “Fine. Goodbye.” ?

You’re ARE correct that the thread hasn’t completely spiraled out of control with rage. I’m honestly surprised by that considering how intense the emotions have been. So, yay for you.

Right now, all we’ve got is an echo chamber of the same people and one dev effectively saying, “Nope. Still not gonna change our mind.”

So, yeah… I’m sticking my oar in and noting how pointless it is. I’m sorry you don’t like it. I’m sorry you want a fight, and aren’t getting one.

If people want to ignore my advice, hell, no skin off my teeth.

Gene Archer.8560:

Oh goody, you’re back to your non-understanding, cold shoulder, completely useless self.

And here I thought maybe you had changed for the better.

Buddy, I am all for making your voice heard. I am all for demanding a company explain themselves.

But there comes a point where protesting and complaining stop being productive. How many times does Arena.net have to repeat the same answers before you say, “Fine. We’re done. Goodbye?”

They’re not going to outright say, “Listen… we’ve decided you aren’t worth catering to, and we’re willing to accept this small loss of revenue for what we feel is to the overall improvement of the game and better revenue going forward.”

If that is what you’re waiting for… you’re going to be waiting a VERY long time. Otherwise, I really don’t understand what has been so unclear or confusing about what has been said. It’s perfectly clear to me; “town clothes” as you know it are going away April 15th, and no amount of protest is going to change that.

And my advice is not a cold shoulder… it’s honest advice. At this point, the ONLY thing that is going to change their stance is for the players to SHOW them they are making a mistake by leaving. If you REALLY represent the support you think you do, it’ll show in their pocketbook, and they will have no choice but to cater to you or the game will flounder.

The point is there aren’t GOING to be “town clothes” any longer. They will either be one-piece “outfits” or armor skins.

There will not be mix-and-match town clothes. Full stop. Arena.net has not moved from their original position. They will not change their mind.

If that breaks the game for you, it is time to walk away.

Linnea.5146:

As for LFG getting emptier, I did a dungeon last Saturday, and my party was full within the minute.

That is the primary reason why LFG looks so empty… ironically because it’s actually quite active and parties are filling up as quickly as they are formed.

Xyonon.3987:

No new statement from ANet? Either they are working or they just don’t care :/

1) They’ve made their statement. It is final. You will not get what you want.

2) Even if through some miracle someone was able to force through all the levels of red tape and convince the decision makers to change their mind, it is 7 am Monday morning on the west coast. They won’t be making any statements at this time of day.

I could understand ramping up the difficulty of The Shatterer and Claw of Jormag. They’re dragon lieutenants, they SHOULD be hard as all hell to fight off. I get that.

I dunno about making any of the other world bosses much more difficult though. Not EVERYTHING needs to be an overwhelming challenge that needs 80+ to accomplish.

You really have a strange idea on how publisher/developer arrangements work.

There IS no “standing their ground.” If NCSoft said, “This is insulting, start over” then Arena.net either starts over, or their games NEVER GET PUBLISHED.

You don’t “stand your ground” with your publisher. You do what they say. Period. They hold ALL the power if they choose to wield it.

Generally, when a supplier sells something, they either have the option to sell at their own price, or at the highest offer.

So someone placing a 2500 offer will instantly be put behind yours.

StriderShinryu.6923:

Second, it’s become obvious by this point that unless your complaint fits into something ANet already has planned, any actual complaints are likely akin to beating your head against a wall. More people doing so may look impressive but it’s not likely to bring the wall down any quicker, thus a lot of people probably see engaging in the discussion as a waste of time.

At this point, I agree. Arena.net has dug in their heels. They heard the complaints, and said, “No.”

Sometimes player pressure can get them to change their mind. But if there is something that Arena.net decides must change, the volume and frequency of fan complaints won’t sway them. For some reason, they decided this is one of things that must change, come hell or high water.

But you never know until you try.

Seiniyta.6971:

The worst part is that there’s no way to get a refund monetary wise since every refund will be in gems. So even if you get a refund out of principle it doesn’t matter since it doesn’t lose Anet any money. Long term they could lose revenue of course since I’m very unlikely to purchase things again if things change like this.

Actually, Arena.net can (and has) refunded cash dollars in the past. It’s not a practice they make as a matter of policy, true, but if you press hard enough (and have kept the e-mail receipt of your cash to gem purchase), they have been convinced to reimburse the credit or debit card used.

Whether they would in this case… I dunno. But it would be worth trying, I’d say.

Djinn.9245:

All we have to do is make it clear to the players at large that if they purchase something from the GW2 store they are flushing their money down the toilet because Anet might change that item at any time so that it is useless to them. Once players understand that, GW2 (which is dependent on store sales) is in trouble.

Then I wish you luck. I don’t think it’ll work the way you hope… but good luck.

The problem is that I doubt Curtis CAN “confirm/deny” much, if any of that.

Development is this really weird place, where technical information is guarded like they are nuclear launch codes. I mean, you can go to any game developer and ask staff to get technical, and almost to a man, they won’t.

It’s not because they don’t think all their fans can’t understand. It’s because often they are forbidden by their contracts to discuss ANY technical details, or the reasoning behind them. And what little they ARE allowed to discuss has to go through a gauntlet of okays from a lot of suits.

Djinn.9245:

As I stated previously, it is one thing for a game company to change certain aspects of the entire game. And if you have purchased that game or a subscription to the game you are aware that these types of sweeping changes can take place. But if the game company is going to sell specific items for real money in their store, I believe that they have a certain responsibility to remain as faithful as possible to those items. It’s one thing to change some specifics about an item (storebought mining axes have a different animation for graphic reasons). But its another thing to change the fundamental usability of an item (the mining axe that was supposed to be Bound to Account is now Bound to Character). In my opinion that is false advertising and morally wrong.

I’m not going to even attempt to argue morality, as there are far too many subjective elements to it to ever really reach a consensus. I’ll cede it to you.

Arena.net, legally, however has two protections in this case that will get any complaint you file laughed right out of the courtroom.

Firstly, the precedent has already been set multiple times. You do not own content in game. Period. That you spent money in game does not make the content yours in any way, shape, or form.

Secondly, technically and legally, the only thing you purchased with money is gems (I can guarantee you that’s the major part of the reason why gems exist, in fact). You never actually spent money for any item in game, and that detaches you even further from any legal claim you may have for ownership of that content in dispute.

That’s the game developers play to protect their right to change their content when they see fit, without needing the approval or permission of their customers. You can hate that game all you want. You can think that it’s morally wrong and despicable and disgusting…

… But it’s pretty much legally airtight.

Complaints, either to Arena.net or any oversight group like the Better Business Bureau, will fall on deaf ears. If changing this is your policy, your best (and arguably only) option now is to walk away, and hope enough people join you. Because your only chance is to hit them in the pocketbook.

Nage.1520:

They’re always goihg to be adding to the game and changing things up. It’s what Anet has always done. Even fairly major changes in GW 1 like adding the hero system, and new PvP types.

I’d like to offer the correction that adding and changing the game is what ALL MMO developers have always done. They pretty much have to if they want to retain player interest.