Guild Wars 2

Test.8734:

See OP, this is again more of what ArenaNet wants.

Players who say, “Blizzard has a lot more resources than ArenaNet, you can’t possibly hold them to the same standards!”.

And then turn around to say, “Asking $50 for the expansion is fine, Blizzard does the same thing!”.

Some players need to learn they cannot have it both ways.

If you are going to continue to (perhaps willfully) misinterpret what I’m saying, there’s little further discussion to be had.

It seems odd to rake Arena.net over the coals for the content they’ve confirmed for Heart of Thorns when all of their peers (some of which with far more resources to work with) haven’t had much more robust offerings at the start of recent expansions. Heavensward for FFXIV is very similar in that same regard. A smallish start right out of the box and building up from there.

If no one in the industry is able or willing to meet your expectations, then perhaps you need to ask yourself, “Maybe… my expectations are unreasonable?”

You did. You got the game three years before anybody picking up a (rather heavily restricted) version for “free.”

If you don’t get that the perceived value of something drops over time outside of a handful of rare exceptions, there’s little further discussion that could be had that would placate you.

The Tee Why.4807:

ANet dropped a LOT of info yesterday, some of which is uncertain.

Some of us are concerned about stuff like that.

So we again face the conundrum of dealing with MMO gamers. They get livid the moment they perceive promises are broken… and with the same breath are demanding more promises.

You can’t have it both ways. If you want all the information you can, you have to accept that a lot of what they tell you is subject to change. If you want concrete, confirmed information, then you have to accept that there’s going to be very little you hear with a lot of advance notice.

That’s how game development is, and it’s hardly an issue with Arena.net. Management and direction in kitten near every game studio is a significant issue, usually because game development is in such high turnover due to poor pay and working conditions that management and directors change on a yearly basis if not less… a direct consequence of gamers demanding cutting edge while refusing to pony up for increasing costs.

Let’s take the demands for Arena.net to update their entire engine to Direct X12. That is a TREMENDOUS undertaking (for example, Blizzard released HD renders with Warlords of Draenor… a task they STARTED on while Wrath of the Lich King was still in development), one that would require most hands on deck for a couple years at the very least, and a LOT of money put into what would largely be a minute upgrade for the bulk of players… but gamers certainly aren’t going to pay for it, and seem to think it’s a matter of just adding in lines of code rather than kitten near an entire rewrite of the engine.

That’s not “white-knighting.” That’s understanding the limitations that game studios have to deal with and accepting it, even if its not ideal or could be better. There’s a TON of problems with game development as a whole, and Arena.net falls into a good many of those pitfalls. But with the current development environment, there’s little that can be done to fix them… and changing the environment would require a great deal of latitude (and an increased price tag) to implement.

I don’t see players getting on board any time soon. It’s likely going to take another crash before both developers and customers decide, “Ya know… maybe we all need to do things differently.”

IllegalChocolate.6938:

chemiclord.3978:

It’s a fundamental problem with the raider mentality.

They represent an absurdly small percentage of the player base, but demand the bulk of development time and content, as well as the means to show off their accomplishments to the “scrubs” and “casuals.”

You should have seen WoW’s forums erupt in cataclysmic rage when “Looking For Raid” was announced.

It’s not the raider’s mentality its just elitism. I am a former progression guild raider(and have been in the lead position during vanilla, burning crusade, and wotlk in WoW) and I take that offensive and I’m one of the people trying to break down the walls of itemization elitism that’s plagued this game.

I recommend you take a step back before you cross swords with people.

As a former member of a “Top 200” raiding guild during Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King (ironically named “Casual” on the Hyjal server), what I can tell you is that was largely my experience within both within the guild and with other “top” raiding guilds.

They demand new raids within months, and get angry when the development isn’t fast enough and there’s “nothing to do” (raid development is by far the most time consuming and QA intensive content an MMO company will produce). When they aren’t raiding, they’re sitting in the most visible place of the latest expansion hub in their “phat purplez.”

Elitism and raider mentality are pretty exchangeable terms the higher up the totem pole you go. If you find that offensive, I’m sorry, but it’s also true.

Test.8734:

chemiclord.3978:

See above. You claim “overpromises” of things not promised, and were in fact expressly stated would possibly change depending on resources allocation and available time.

See OP, this is the kind of player ArenaNet wants.

Right now, ArenaNet is saying: “We will release HoT with next to no content, we know, BUT! We will add more later, we promise! We will release HoT with just 4 maps but we will add more later, we will release HoT with only 3 legendaries but we will add more later, we will release HoT with only one third of a single raid but we will add more later!”.

And later, when they fail to implement even half of the things they’re promising, they want players who will say, “But ArenaNet never promised anything! Stop being entitled!”.

That’s why this community is so bad.

Okay… so… wait… first you complain that they overpromise… now you’re complaining that they haven’t promised enough?

Could you make up your mind, please?

I mean, the facts are pretty simple. They didn’t promise ANYTHING in their 2013 roadmap. That you decided they did is YOUR problem, not THEIRS. Ya want a broken promise? The entire Ascended debacle is that. They directly went against earlier statements and produced an entirely new level of gear (and their rationalization as to how they didn’t REALLY backtrack was flimsy at best).

If you want to take Arena.net to task for breaking their word, actually citing examples of them breaking their word (and such examples exist, I can assure you) would be helpful, rather than bitter tantrums stemming from twisted words and intent.

But I get you though. This entire, “We’ll only release part of the content on release, and add to it later on” simply isn’t done… well… except by every other MMO in the world. But yeah, other than everyone else, what Arena.net is doing is unprecedented and unacceptable.

I mean, Warlords of Draenor launched with all of five zones and one raid hub. And that’s with the resources Blizzard had available to them. Considering that Arena.net has probably a fraction of that, coming out with 4 maps and one raid zone is actually pretty kitten impressive.

Game development is getting drastically more expensive with every year, and gamers are doggedly insistent on not paying one penny more than they have for the last decade. Something has to give… either we need to be willing to pony up, or we’re going to get less.

May I remind you… this is what the players claimed they wanted. They WANTED the traditional expansion model. This is what players like you begged for, whined for, threatened for… and now that we’ve got it… well, we’re still whining and raging.

The community on the forums is bad because the community is bad.

It’s a fundamental problem with the raider mentality.

They represent an absurdly small percentage of the player base, but demand the bulk of development time and content, as well as the means to show off their accomplishments to the “scrubs” and “casuals.”

You should have seen WoW’s forums erupt in cataclysmic rage when “Looking For Raid” was announced.

Test.8734:

• ArenaNet overpromises and underdelivers. Want one example? “We’ll begin regularly adding new skills and traits to the game”, “We’ll expand all crafting professions to allow them to reach a new milestone: 500 points!”, “On top of this, you’ll also see new legendary weapons and new types of legendary gear in 2013”. None of that ever happened. Later they said they would add to the game a new fun and interesting way for people to unlock traits, which led to a massive outcry and years later they eventually overhauled the entire system (again). They also said they would make the initial player experience more “fun”, and the result was the hated NPE update, which made the beginning of the game a torture.

This community is wrong because that’s how ArenaNet built it.

The community is wrong because the community is wrong.

See above. You claim “overpromises” of things not promised, and were in fact expressly stated would possibly change depending on resources allocation and available time.

If you want an example of why Arena.net ignores it’s forums, right there is Exhibit 1-A.

Any effects (like shine or reflective properties) usually has more to do with the material being dyed than the dye itself, honestly.

Meh. Official forums are nigh ALWAYS a den for the dissatisfied. I like to recite a bit of advice I learned from a Development head when this sort of topic comes up,

“If you were to judge every game by its official forum, you’d reach the conclusion that every game in the world is utter trash and should never be played by anyone.”

As a veteran, I really could not care one hair on a kitten’s kitten about what someone else gets three years later.

And I refuse to contemplate the brain trauma I would have to receive before I DID care about what someone else gets years after I do.

Because the people who tend to frequent the forums are the “hardcore” veterans, who have very little patience and empathy. But that’s okay, because they make up for the lack of those traits with a bloated sense of entitlement and a very loud whine.

Freywstrider.5780:

It would seem that Arena net is forgetting what they set out to do. To make a different type of MMO, at least, that was what they said during the beta and release. Now, they seem to be moving towards being like other MMO’s and not different.

Well, for what it’s worth, THAT has been happening pretty steadily for the last three years, and that’s because the market demanded it. There’s a reason why most MMOs start drifting towards the World of Warcraft clone model… because that’s what MMO players are familiar with, and as a result, it’s what they want. Gamers don’t particularly like different. They want more of the same.

This entire upcoming expansion itself is a testament to that. Players steadfastly refused to entertain the possibility that Arena.net could gradually update the game on a steady basis. Nope, this game HAD to have a boxed expansion. There was simply no willingness to entertain any other option… because that’s how it’s always been done.

Read the occasional cries for open-world dueling, mounts, the “holy trinity”, etc… and realize, yeah… people WANT this game to become a WoW clone.

Ya know… it’s kinda funny how players whined that HoT shouldn’t be $50 and that the “core game” wasn’t free…

Looks like Arena.net called our bluff, folks.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

Ah you misunderstood me. I was referring to the idea that for example you press “Start raid” then automatically and randomly it parties you with 9 others who pressed it as well, as opposed to invite/decline/kick etc etc. Just like in sPvP. Of course there should be something like a LFR added, I’m sure you are right, it is inevitable.

Ah. I getcha.

Yes, I sincerely doubt that the raids will be “hotjoin”… though I suppose having it as an OPTION wouldn’t necessarily be terrible.

Lux Dominatoris.3941:

As for the randomly grouping. No. It’s just no. It’s one of those things like everyday breathing in which you do not need someone to confirm to you in order to be aware of it.

Here’s the problem, though… without some sort of random “Looking for Raid” option, the percentage of users that actually play this content is so low that it’s nowhere near worth the investment of time and resources.

Even WoW, with it’s millions of users and steady income stream, decided they couldn’t keep catering huge swaths of content to the 5-10% of players who were willing to coordinate into hardcore raiding guilds.

I think a “LFR” option in GW2 should be expected, and reasonably so.

The biggest issue I have with threads that talk about “rewarding” content is that I’m not exactly sure what “rewarding” is supposed to be in this game to begin with.

The entire point of how both Guild Wars games were designed is that it wasn’t about grinding for “best-in-slot” or the treadmill of ever increasing stats. While Guild Wars 2 did back off that ideal a little bit with Ascended gear (and Guild Wars 1 focused on vertical progression through a handful of skills by the end of its run)… it’s still fairly on point in that regard. The “reward” isn’t tied to the stats on the item.

Which leads to the problem with “rewards” being the appearance tied to the gear, which is a highly subjective thing by nature, simply because one item that you think is “cool” or “neat” someone else would call “ugly” or “garbage.” If you didn’t like any of the looks on the mastery rewards, would the game still not be rewarding?

I guess I’ll worry about how “rewarding” the game is when we get anything remotely close to a consensus of what “rewarding” should be at all.

Vague Memory.2817:

A lot of truth in this thread. Sure, the game is fairly old now and the regular dungeon runners want experienced people with what they consider to be the best build/classes for that run. But my first experience of using the LFG tool for dungeon groups was and still is seeing messages selling positions on a group, using an official in-game tool. To me this was a complete turn off, and not something I’ve seen so overtly done in other MMOs. This sends out a bad message to new players, and kills part of the grouping experience. If people want to do this, and some people want to pay for this then fine, but they should do it privately, and this where ANet dropped the ball. Permitting this advertising on the LFG tool is a bad idea. For me this isn’t in keeping with the spirit of the game.

Meh, I see little difference between “selling” dungeon runs and publicly selling Droknar’s runs (that allowed you to skip a TON of the early game content) in GW1.

Support has been known to be VERY accommodating for the first time you screw something up, even if you “should have known better.”

If by “work” you mean “available time and resources”, you’re probably correct.

Simple painful truth time… “tweaking” something that players don’t like rarely works, and there’s been a LOT of complaints about underwater combat. In nearly all cases, it’s better to simply cut it entirely (possibly rebuilding an alternative from scratch down the road) rather than try and fiddle with what isn’t working.

uhohhotdog.3598:

What is it about guild wars that makes people think they should get more because they have been playing longer? When I played another game I never once heard anyone complain that new players got previous expansions free.

I think what you are seeing are two distinct groups of people in a war of philosophy, so to speak.

1) For the MMO crowd, this is old hat. They had been crying and demanding a traditional expansion model for the last two years or so, to the point that Arena.net decided that they needed to be catered to. This group either was unaware or didn’t care about the people in…

2) GW1 veterans or players new to the MMO way of doing things. To them, this is either an example of double-dipping (getting someone to pay for the same product twice) or yet another example of Arena.net betraying their roots to become more like everyone else.

It’s also an example of people in group 2 not speaking up when the people in group 1 were rather loudly voicing their opinions. Where was all this protest when the forums were filled with threads of “This game needs a real expansion!1111!!1!”

I was doing a Mystic Forge daily quest. Got to 4/5, then couldn’t figure out why I was one rare short for that fifth one.

Turned out one of my first four forge attempts had been Zap. I was actually rather annoyed by it (thinking it was just one of those run-of-the-mill named exotics before a guildie quite forcefully told me not to salvage the thing.

Then I torqued him by trading Zap for The Lover. Because I wanted my rainbow unicorn bow.

The only thing I can say about this is that Guild Wars 2 has fallen pretty much entirely into the standard MMO model at this point.

Which means, no… the expansion will not be complete at launch, and that is entirely intentional. And arguably necessary for player retention.

Teratus.2859:

Everyone besides newbies should be familir with this content by now but thats not the case anymore..
every single kitten map is full of afkers who still haven’t learned that AFKing in GW2 gives NO rewards.. and yet they still do it every god kitten day..
people are still completely ignoraing Fingers and Hypnos mobs and focusing entirely on Champs that don’t even drop loot..

I can not strees enough how much I am sick and tired of explaining what to do only to have people just run around and do whatever they want then cry about how it always fails..

This HP upgrade was a very bad idea.. the Crit spot is utterly broken as well on EVERY!! boss that has one.. since it can only be hit by AoE and Melee.. so Range weapons are utterly useless on them massivly decreasing the possibly DPS that can be done.. and on top of that most bosses have AOE protecting that crit spot which makes Meleing them practically impossible.. or borderline suicide runs..

As far as Teq goes its more or less a guarantee that if you have 20ish people on the map that don’t know what they are doing or decide they will run around and just hit stuff or go AFK and let everyone else do the work its a guaranteed Failure..

Im not going to bother with Teq anymore personally since its far too much work for more often than not.. utter garbage rewards..
better off runing a dungeon path instead.. hell its faster and more rewarding and you don’t have to put up with people wasting your time and screwing your map over

Everything you have listed are PLAYER-side problems.

The point is that people were saying pretty much the exact same thing when Tequatl first launched. It was too hard, it was impossible…

Then people started figuring it out, and it became kitten near farm status. Now it’s changed, and we’re seeing the same complaining.

Get better. Learn what to do.

Or you can whine about it endlessly on the forums, I guess.

140 possibilities mean little if only 3 or 4 of them are viable.

It would seem like if you want to spend money to direct their workflow that what you’d have to do would be to become a significant shareholder.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

c’mon dude… you and I both know you cant walk, look, read, or hear anything anymore that isnt biased or discussing this topic… its like listening to the same justin beiber song for days on end… at some point you get tired of hearing justin beiber, no matter how well or poorly you think he sings… so yes, in some reguards, it IS forced on us by the media whether its directly or in passing or through other people engaging you to support their cause, or whatever other method you choose to say it.

the fact you are resulting to ABSOLUTES in your theory crafting is telling. Of course no one can FORCE me to watch biased NBC news or whatever, but it doesnt mean i dont hear things in passing, or on the radio, or see a magazine title etc…

and lets be clear… i dont object to their existing, im just tired of hearing about it everywhere i turn…. so your whole theory is a wash…

And yet, unless you do not have the power to change the station, you are CHOOSING to listen to that Justin Bieber song over and over.

You are being intellectually dishonest at best. You are NOT being “forced” to hear any of this. You are CHOOSING to hear it and participate in it. You have effectively walked into a room of people trying to have a discussion and started screaming, “I’m tired of hearing about this! Shut up! Stop forcing me to hear this!”

Everything you talk about are all things you could actively avoid… if you honestly wished to. But you don’t. You want to air your offense to these issues. Therefore, your claims that you are being “forced” are pure bullkitten, and your feelings on the matter can, and should, be dismissed whole cloth.

Good day. Do be a dear and show yourself out so that you aren’t “forced” to participate any longer.

CorrynnStarr.7942:

but if Person A’s beliefs and emotions are being forced on Person B, his/her emotions DO matter and very well SHOULD be considered. With the recent media hype over the LGBT community and how it needs special treatment being placed infront of everyone everywhere they look, can you really expect people to not be tired of it and not want to see it anymore?

Okay… let me ask… how is this being “forced” upon you?

Did someone MAKE you approach the NPC and talk to her?

Is there someone next to you right now sitting you in your chair and forcing you to open this discussion?

Does this person lock your TV to an endless loop of Caitlyn Jenner’s interview?

If not, then you’re not being forced. You are choosing to participate, at which point my original statement stands. You are objecting to a person’s existence. Your opinion and feelings therefore can be dismissed. Your right to take offense is not equal in any way, shape, or form to a person’s right to exist however they wish.

Harper.4173:

Person B does not take any offense but doesn’t care about person A enough that they’re willing to change the way they see the world and perceive it in order to cater to person A.
Person B decides to do things the way he/she feels like doing them not because he hates or is offended by person A but simply because person B is indifferent to person A.

If Person B is truly indifferent to Person A, then there is no discussion, and both people co-exist without issue. That there IS a discussion suggests that you actually aren’t indifferent at all.

DragonflyDusk.6582:

So one person’s emotions matter more than another person’s.

In a word? Yes.

Not all opinions are created equal. Not all emotions are equivalent.

Once again, we are seeing an example of a false equivalence. Person A is existing how they feel comfortable existing. Person B is taking offense to that existence.

Person B’s feelings are completely irrelevant on this score, and can be dismissed without merit. Person B’s feelings do not matter in regard to Person A’s.

Baconplease.1657:

This is not important. Take it to your guild chat if you want to discuss it. There are way more important issues in the game then this. This whole thread is just 12 year old’s being passive aggressive with each other. Like burning damage, skill bugs, lack of story to cover the changes to la, pvp in balance. These are just a few things that are more important. Better yet please.bring back the off topic board for threads like these.

You have some really odd priorities.

Dashingsteel.3410:

Self-determination is fine but there are always consequences. When your choices offend other people they have the right to complain.

No. Not really.

I do apologize for sounding combative earlier on this score, but this really is a matter of false equivalence. Your (and I mean this in the general usage, not specifically directed towards you) discomfort is not REMOTELY a good enough excuse to complain about someone else’s life choices.

The same thing goes with being gay, lesbian, black, asian, hispanic, Muslim, Jewish, or any other “minority” or “lifestyle” you wish to pick here.

And just in case someone wants to try and go down this slippery slope, no this isn’t comparable to pedophilia or beastality or any other “lifestyle” that inherently includes someone not able or not mature enough to properly give consent.

Someone choosing to change their appearance to fit their gender identity DOESN’T hurt you. It doesn’t change you. Unless YOU allow it to do so. At that point, it becomes YOUR problem, and your complaints deserve nothing but to be dismissed without merit.

Xdmatt.3958:

Sorry to break it to you, but that isn’t how society works. At least not outside of the “safe spaces” of Tumblr. There are things acceptable and unacceptable, both on personal and societal level.

And since you are so glib with your blanket statements, I suggest that you take your own advice. What goes for the goose goes for the gander, does it not?

Then that’s a problem with society that needs immediate correction. Because it’s wrong.

What you think is “unacceptable” is completely irrelevant. Every person has the right to self-determination. You do NOT have the right to do anything but accept that self-determination, no matter how uncomfortable it makes you.

Take your false equivalence somewhere else.

Bloodstealer.5978:

See .. this is why ANET should of steered clear of this kind of attempt at inclusiveness.. small and of little consequence to the game per say.. but that small thing has already begun to ignite that very hot potato Chronos is referring to.
Many of us genuinely don’t have any issues with LGBT inclusion and their preferences, but we also know and understand that not everyone shares that same level of acceptance, tolerance, acknowledgement and understanding around the globe.. its cruddy yes but it’s a fact. MMO’s or games in general are not the place to fight these kind of stigmas and hot topics and for good reason…
If this is allowed to escalate within game then maybe ANET need to start placing warning on boxes, or across splash screens and raise the age bar.. because this isn’t something that young kids need to get embroiled in when playing .. a game.

So do yourself and others in the LGBT community a favour and take your aggressive intent out of the thread because your actually the one who is doing their utmost to turn it into the cat fight many of us are are saying we would prefer to avoid.

And I disagree. I think this is the PERFECT place to fight these stigmas.

The art and entertainment we experience is the PERFECT place to challenge societal mores and rules. The best, most enduring tales we pass on to future generations are the ones that force us to think about the world around us and how we view it.

Video games need more like this, more things that make players reflect on themselves and ask if there is something more they can learn… because the answer is almost always “yes.”

Khristophoros.7194:

My opinion is not from bigotry. I have a close family member who has been in transition for a few years and I don’t accept it. That is a much more real experience on the issue than most people have.

See… that’s the problem. Your “acceptance” means jack kitten. You don’t get to choose whether it’s acceptable or not. You get to shut your mouth and let other people choose how they want to live their lives.

Your opinion gets to be dismissed without merit, because that is all it deserves.

If anything, it’s PLAYERS that want “shallow.” They want to have fun, not min-max.

Jerus.4350:

To me it’s pretty much because they’ve offered no real incentive to pre-order. You get to test their game for them, that’s your reward for giving them money now. It’s pretty typical to offer something for a pre-order, and with the inclusion of the base game they have offered a pretty sweet deal to new players. So it’s just another instance of them treating their new players while ignoring their current players, and people are upset about that.

(snipped for brevity)

But, that doesn’t change the fact that there’s no incentive to buy now.

And you know what? I fully support your decision to not pre-purchase based on what you’ve seen. That’s sound consumer thinking, to not put down money until you feel the product is worth the price.

Where I start cringing and rolling my eyes at the community is the hellbent insistence to be enraged that this MMO community tends to have in spades. Everything and anything a developer does seems to be steeped in malice. Every cost is borderline fraud. Every in-game change is a spiteful attack on their players.

Why can’t we tone the vitriol down? There’s so many ways to present our reservations rationally that doesn’t make the fan base look like 12-year-olds being told we can’t get three servings of cake for dinner.

If you think Arena.net is outright lying to your face to try and bleed $10 out of you… then the consumer relationship you have with Arena.net is toxic beyond repair and you should just leave for good.

That’s not a dismissal, that’s not an insult. Nothing that can be said from anyone is going to mollify your rage, and coming back here is only going to make you angrier. Maybe you just need to wash your hands of the whole thing and never look back.

Devata is willfully ignorant of this fact. Cash shops exist in EVERY MMO, and they are NEVER going away. Sub MMOs have them. B2P and F2P MMOs have them. Even Devata’s beloved GW1 had a cash shop (to which Devata’s response tends to be an articulated version of “LALALALALA I CAN’T HEAR YOU!”).

But nope, there exists this “pure” MMO in Devata’s mind… one that only charges for the base game, has AAA level of graphics, never has a sub, and produces cheap expansions every six months to a year.

That the studio who produced such a game would go bankrupt within three years with current game development costs never seems to enter Devata’s mind.

phys.7689:

the industry standard is 0-50, i actually only saw 50 one time, and it was WoW, and only the latest expansion.
so they priced it as much as the most expensive expansions that exist, not really the industry standard

$50 is on the high end… but for all those paid boxed expansions, $40-$50 is pretty much the “standard.” If you REALLY want to quibble about $10, then be my guest.

I DO believe that $50 was going to be the cover price, with or without the “core” game included, so I find it to be largely a non-starter.

I think they put a price tag that they felt was on par with the rest of the “industry.”

I think at some point, someone within the company brought up the point that new players would probably balk at the idea of having to pay for two games just to be up to date, even if the core game was only $10.

I think someone high up the food chain thought that was a very good point, and so Arena.net had to do some quick reworking of the whole pre-purchase packages.

I think they expected some degree of backlash. I think they might have even expected THIS degree of backlash. But as to what they are doing about it right now inside closed doors… who knows? Maybe they’re expecting the noise to die down (like it usually has when the Internet revolts). Maybe they’re trying to put together some idea to “fix” things.

But one thing I KNOW is that you shouldn’t expect any “fix” (if one is coming) for some time.

Can we just all be perfectly honest with ourselves here?

I suspect, the bulk of the complaints REALLY centers around the base edition not getting a bonus character slot. Let’s cut through the noise and just say it outright.

“Veteran” players want a kittening character slot, because they’ve filled all their slots and don’t feel they should have to buy another one on top of the expansion to play a Revenant. They feel this is cheap because GW1 handed out slots to play with in each expansion.

So can we just SAY THAT? Can we stop trying to couch it in bullkitten so that we don’t sound like “entitled brats?” Rather than run around in stupid circles over legality, quibbling semantics over whether or not the core game is actually “free” or “not free”… just say what we want here.

Arena.net. We players want a kittening character slot in the basic package. And ya know what? Most of us don’t even give a kitten if “new” players get that bonus character slot too (this entire fairness bullkitten is just another way to avoid sounding entitled to a character slot).

Yes, there’s still going to be those perpetually kitten that will never shut up about whatever perceived slight has triggered their rage bone or will always whine about the cash shop being the devil that is ruining gaming… but they’ll be relegated to the background noise again.

But put a bonus slot in the basic package, and this entire kittenstorm vanishes over kittening night. I promise you. Your problem is now solved. Smack some heads together at NCSoft and get it done.

I think people defending the price point and the content revealed so far have to be very careful lumping people into one group of “haters.”

There are MANY reasons to not want to jump on board right now. Yes, a few of those reasons are incredibly petty and demonstrate that some of the fanbase are genuinely kittenty people (which should come as no surprise). But there’s plenty of perfectly rational reason to say, “I’m not buying this until you sweeten the pot.”

DragonflyDusk.6582:

Jelzouki.4128:

WereDragon.6083:

If the pre-purchase price was “Fine” The forums and reddit wouldn’t be on fire. Even a few people agitated could support the OP’s claim of “Fine” but this is a full blown rebellion.

Forums and reddit blow up when any kind of news or update is heard or happens. This is no different, and I guarantee people are not going to leave the game if they have invested lots of time into it. It’s laughable, and I hope Arena Net doesn’t give in.

Complaining is normal. This turned in to a full-scale forum war right after prepurchase was announced. I think you’re down-paying the scope here a bit.

We’ve seen “full-scale forum wars” just as bad ignite over:

- Flamekissed armor
- Gem Store changes
- A mining pick
- Town Clothes
- Free Feature Packs
- Free Living Story Updates
- The “need” for a “REAL EXPANSION” in the first place

This is hardly new, nor is it unexpected. It doesn’t even have to require players putting money down. This entire forum is filled with players ready to flip tables at a moment’s notice.

Okay… and…?

nicknamenick.2437:

Wow! i am often a kittenhead also on this forum, mostly about balancing…

This really is kinda the core of it. Think about how this forum blows up like an incendiary mine over something that doesn’t cost them a kitten cent. Of COURSE this forum (and the GW2 Internet presence as a whole) was going to go up in flames the moment they were asked to pony up the $$$, and it really wouldn’t have mattered what that price tag was or what was included in it.

People were GOING to find SOMETHING to complain about, and they were going to complain about it very loudly. Ignore the brats and keep working at it.

Here’s what happens every time.

Arena.net makes an announcement.

A cadre of Internet warriors loses their collective minds, and goes apekitten for a week or two over the latest perceived slight.

They eventually either get over themselves or leave for good, and we have relative peace again. A small handful of posters carry the flame indefinitely, but eventually they get tuned out into background noise.

Okay, let’s be careful about lumping the entire community into one conglomerate whole.

The first complaint is that $50 is simply too high of a price tag for what has been presented. I’m not in disagreement, in all honesty. That’s something that can be rectified as more information pertaining to the expansion is released, but at the moment, it’s not enough for the “industry standard” price tag that has been slapped on it. You’re asking for fans to fork over money sight unseen, and Arena.net hasn’t particularly given a compelling reason to do so yet.

Still others are angry that purchasing the base expansion doesn’t come with a free character slot, something that previous games under the Guild Wars umbrella has done in the past. Again, I’m in agreement. There needs to be a compelling reason to break from precedent, and Arena.net has offered pretty much nothing but silence.

Entitlement doesn’t always have to be a bad thing. Standing up for what you think is a fair price to you is something that should be applauded as sound customer thinking. And if the protest actually stirs a change in the original plan, then it can only be a victory for customers everywhere.

But, unfortunately, once again, we have the kittenty, toxic element whose beef isn’t the price or the lack of bonus perks… but that purchase of the expansion will come with the base game at no extra cost for new players.

In summary, they aren’t angry because they feel cheated, they’re angry because they feel someone else is getting more than them. If you’re a member of this group, let it be known you’re a terrible person who needs to be summarily ignored and your complaints dismissed without merit.

I think a more accurate comparison is that one monkey got a bunch of grapes earlier, then got kittened off when the second monkey got a grape along with his cucumber.

Which would make the first monkey a kitten more than anything.

DonQuack.9025:

I dont know why people compare to wow when we have gw1 to compare and shake our heads in shame at.

Because the prices of something 10 years ago really isn’t a very good barometer due to inflation and other currency fluctuations.

You can compare prices to other goods being produced at the same time.