Guild Wars 2

The rank and points of your server are not remotely an indicator of your PvP quality – that’s a fact. Also – they do not guarantee a higher level of enjoyment.

However, up until the reset the rank was meaning something for a specific category of players that deserve more compassion than disdain – the dedicated, hardcore PvPers, the GvGers of old, who are still waiting and hoping after 8 months of frustration.

In NA, there was a movement of these PvP centric guilds towards the tier 1, in a hope to get to fight people who share their interest. These guys are less concerned about the server score and more about fighting that guild or the other. They were trying to organize their “poor man” version of a GvG that might never happen.

They worked on that plan for weeks. And now ANet messed it again, at least for a few more weeks.

Told you – they deserve more compassion that hate.

GW2 is a game with a specific “core principle”: everyone has to feel included, equal. No griefing, no exclusion no “L2P n00b”. No required builds, no “item/skill check before we go in”. That’s how it is in PvE – that’s how it is in WvW.

That’s why WvW is NOT (and I keep repeating in) intended for competitive PvP players or guilds. WvW is intended for the casual PvXer that goes into the borderlands out of boredom and wants to join a fight. These PvXers are their main target public – you are calling them “mindless idiots”. Tough luck.

The current form of WvW is not made for you. Every move they made in WvW was clearly intended to make it funnier and easier for the “mindless idiots” you are bashing. They might add some form of “competitive large scale PvP” later in the year but meanwhile you’ll have to cope with it.

Too much server pride is what got the SBI community shattered.

From Wikipedia:

“In almost every list, pride (Latin, superbia), or hubris (Greek), is considered the original and most serious of the seven deadly sins, and the source of the others. It is identified as a desire to be more important or attractive than others, failing to acknowledge the good work of others, and excessive love of self (especially holding self out of proper position toward God). Dante’s definition was “love of self perverted to hatred and contempt for one’s neighbour.” In Jacob Bidermann’s medieval miracle play, Cenodoxus, pride is the deadliest of all the sins and leads directly to the damnation of the titulary famed Parisian doctor. In perhaps the best-known example, the story of Lucifer, pride (his desire to compete with God) was what caused his fall from Heaven, and his resultant transformation into Satan. In Dante’s Divine Comedy, the penitents were forced to walk with stone slabs bearing down on their backs to induce feelings of humility."

We are trying to heal the SBI community into being based not on “Server Pride” – (we are so much better than others) but on Community attachment and comfort (it feels good to play here with these people) like it was supposed to be from the start. You know – “Log on. Rock out. S…..the points”.
I can guarantee the handfull of us that logs into WvW every day are greatly enjoying every minute of it, regardless of the points.

I was sad to see our friends leave, starting with WM, and it had nothing to do with our WvW rating – but more with not having them around to play and have fun with. I truly hope they will consider guesting on SBI for some of the non-WvW events we are organizing (we are going to “invade” another server and free the Orr temples there – come wear the “Stormbluff Isle Invader” red one more time and kill scripted monsters with us). As an expat in real life, I know that there is nothing that helps you more during bad times than seeing familiar faces around you.

Anyway – I do not feel server “pride”. I do not think my server or group is “better” than another server. But I greatly enjoy playing the game with the people on my Guild and Server, PvE or WvW, and this means a lot to me.

Not many people from SBI post here anymore – but I still wanted to express my gratitude towards our foes (or game partners ?). Every night there is a (rather small) number of SBI WvWers logging on our BL mostly and trying to have some good old PvP fun – and we kinda managed to do it.

Thanks to TC – you guys are great people and players, and I like your attitude. I’ve been in fights against you, at camps, towers and keeps. Killed some then got killed some. Lost the Garison to a Golem rush or two (nice going there ) – then recaptured it. It was refreshing.

The same can be said about the SoR militia – we had some epic battles back and forth around Arah. Killing or be killed – it was fun.

A little frustrated about the main “pro” SoR group (can’t call it a zerg despite the numbers – they were too well organized). Using portals + mass invisibility, stacking AoEs, all the omnom ghosts and buffs in the game, spamming GiBs…….All valid tactics in the “elite WvW” world you are targeting – I don’t blame you for that. I just don’t want to have to fight you (or any other group like you) again – our definitions of WvW fun are not the same – not saying mine is better btw, just different. Good luck and may you find what you are looking for.

So – let’s hope we’ll all continue to enjoy our WvW wherever we’ll end up playing. Thx. to all.

Atrophied.8725:

earendil.1290:

For people who finished the PvE side then got bored and decided to buy a tag and see what happens. (whenever I see a commander tag that also shows the star for map completion I know that’s the kind).

What about those WvW commanders who wanted a legendary and so did map completion (that really only takes 2-3 days if you’re a fully geared 80)?

I never said that a Commander with a star is a bad commander. It just provides info on his interests and priorities – he’s either a PvXer or really wanted a legendary (nothing to be ashamed of). He can be a great leader – the only way to find it is to follow him.

However, when I see a commander tag I do not know, from a guild I do not know having the star and yelling at commanders I know to let him lead … it all adds up.

I think the only Commander on SBI having a legendary that I saw was Cohh. A darn good commander for sure – but even his guildmates were making fun of his GS

Anet clearly said they are not planning to increase the party size in WvW or add squad functions. The arguments were totally unconvincing – something like “it would increase the lag” and “the UI would become too complex, we don’t want you to play watching the UI but to play watching the game”.

The truth is – they want WvW to be “all inclusive” just like all the rest of GW2. The game is built for casuals, who just join WvW, pick a commander to follow then leave because Jormag is up.

For people who finished the PvE side then got bored and decided to buy a tag and see what happens. (whenever I see a commander tag that also shows the star for map completion I know that’s the kind).

It’s part of the game core values to make everything available for everyone and not exclude them. Having parties of 20 will probably make casuals feel excluded – not going to happen.

The problem is that many WvW players are hardcore PvPers and they want some minimal sort of population control and coordination. This game is not for them – yet. They plan to go e-sports some time late this year.

Kaineng current crew has been tested a lot in the top tier for the months since the game started. Anyone who thinks they’ll stop at T2 is deluding himself (baring another WM major trasfert or game leaving of course)

They are playing the zerg game, they are using the PuGs/Militia/as a force, training and feeding the, instead as a meat shield filler, like I’ve seen so many do unfortunately.

I don’t particularly enjoy seeing them there, since their departure literally destroyed my SBI – but if you are a casual and want to be well treated, you can rely on WM for that, the same way I did.

The queues though will probably get pretty nasty, after the new WvW reward system comes up. The reason WM and SBI could rarely win on reset nights was that they were not able to get their WvW crews in. This is the only thing that might stop them – being flooded from the inside. But it’s hardly possible at oceanic time.

Titan.3472:

According on this http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA
Also considering we are day 2 from wvw week reset, we can make realistic prevision that Kaineng will directly jump to 2nd or 3rd place in Tier 2, moreover we can guess that SBI might fall from T2 to T4 directly, then T3 will remain the same for next week.
Free servers transfert closure soon. Join up the adventures my friends !
Regards.

SBI could fall directly into T4 next week ? That’s probably one of the best news I had today. I was not really looking to face Kaineng – too painful to see them.

It is not fun.

You had massive transfers from powerful WvW guilds to low level servers. Still can’t figure the reason. That leads to:

a) – overpowered servers in low tiers, that are slowly going up – see SoS and Kaineng. Anyone with such a server in their tier knows what we are talking about.

b) – dead servers with lots of points, that take weeks/months to get on a tier where they can actually compete (see HoD and SBI). Meanwhile, any tier this server is is extremely annoyed since it’s a poor 1 vs 1 on.

So – a lot of tiers are not balanced in any way – therefore not fun. Fortunately this will not occur after the paid transfers – but it will take at least a month or two before it stabilizes. Could have been done better and earlier IMO.

Oh, and probably next week SBI will be fighting Kaineng – this will be so fun for everyone.

Several famous WvW guild leaders in T1 (I know of Coronbale and Jedbacca) have been banned for gold selling. They took gold from the guild bank and sent it to guild members to buy commander tags. An automated system banned them. They were reinstated days after they contested the decision.

As someone who tagged along with Jang during his SBI days, sometimes I wished he was a bot – so much scolding of his followers, and angry caps typing

Anyone who knows even a little about what WM was in GW1 and in in GW2 knows they are playing fair. Always did.

In fact this is the direct result of what happened on our SBI just before WM moved.

The only way Agg managed to fight against WM was by flooding their commanders with insulting whispers. Full pages, where they were called all sorts of censored names.

Agg were really surprised (and proud) that this actually worked in getting them angry and making them leave the map (shortly after the server too – not just because of this incident but still..) See, the US PVP players are used to ignoring this kind of behavior – seems WM are not – I remember how surprisingly mad they were when a hacker stole our orb – was there on the map and they literally went crazy -they could not believe it to be possible.

So they are weak to trolling and harassing. Their current foes discovered this weakness and are trying to exploit it – mass reporting for botting seem a legit strategy for some.

And Anet has a clear policy about “ban first, ask later” whenever it touches their income and “bot reports” do that. They use automated banning systems – banned Dulfy, they banned many WvW guild and community leaders.

So WM is weak to trolling – they should try to correct this weakness if they intend to continue playing.

I find it interesting that when the SBI WvW guilds decided to try to find their fun elsewhere, they went to JQ or to SoR. Some went to Kaineng or even FA or Europe. I read the scouting they made by some before leaving…

BG was never an option for any of the SBI guilds, neither was SoS AFAIK.

Yet we have been crushed by JQs soo many times, double teamed starting with the HoD days. You cannot say there was love between our servers. And it’s not about moving to the Top server – SoS would have been the choice.

SBI WvWers went to JQ because there was a huge amount of reciprocal respect between them and us, forged with the blood of so many battles.

SBI here.

From the quality of people I know on Kaineng and the quality of T1-2 opponents I faced…

Kaineng will reach T1 fast and probably win it. Book it.

I’m still sad that they felt they had to leave SBI – but it’s their choice after all.

Don’t get mad at them when you face them. Or maybe do get mad, since they are hurting your fun in WvW. It won’t last long though. They’ll probably stay one-two weeks per tier at most.

Stoneslammer.3650:

earendil.1290:

What would have been the alternative ? Suddenly drop the bomb and have people tied to the place they were ? Do you think this would have been a better option ?

The only thing I would have liked would have been New content first, paid transfers after. Maybe the new content will hurt servers with higher populations – so people choosing to Xfer would have been aware of.

Actually it would have been very fitting to see these fair-weather players stuck on a server they don’t want to be on. It is called Karma and it would have been amusing to say the least to read all the whinging.

I am from a server that has been hit very hard by guilds leaving and I do not agree with you calling them Fair-weathers or whatever. They are good people and friends that are trying to find a way to enjoy a stale game. If they get his by new content that punishes them I would be very sad.

So – Anet did mess this – should have given the new content before the paid transfers. Just imagine if (that’s an absurd speculation btw) they create a system where commanders receive “commanding tokens” based on the number of people / time that joined their squad. On a high WvW population server this could lead to fierce competition – the “newcomers” would have it a lot harder than on their original server where everyone knew and liked them.

Hope it’s not the case.

What would have been the alternative ? Suddenly drop the bomb and have people tied to the place they were ? Do you think this would have been a better option ?

The only thing I would have liked would have been New content first, paid transfers after. Maybe the new content will hurt servers with higher populations – so people choosing to Xfer would have been aware of.

Cactus.2710:

earendil.1290:

]

What you observed is probably true. WM has particular strategies that you need to be there to understand (even then it takes time – but they are effective).

First – they always play the “server morale” game. Winning is the long term is largely dependent on how many PuGs will come and follow you – I was one of these PuGs. I remember in a highly competitive map, Jang called us and went to the NW door of an enemy controlled Bay. There they attacked the door a few times then we stood on the stairs, killing the waves or reinforcements coming from the enemy garison and citadel. For about 20 minutes. Someone asked him “why are we doing this ?” – " To break their morale".

There is little point in fortifying/upgrading when you have a 600+ lead. You want the opponent to take their towers/keeps – gives you (and the pug zerg) something to do. I you fortify everything and the opponent cant take anything – your own PuGs will become bored and lose morale or start JP/spawn camping. You need to feed them kills and badges – so you need an opponent. I can assure you that in highly contested maps they were building everything – it made sense.

Also – they have the “move like a ball – leave no tail” strategy – a very fast moving zerg group (better have plenty of speed buffs if you want to keep up) hitting targets of various importance (camps, towers, even sentries) – in an apparently random manner. If you can’t take a tower in 5 minutes – move along. All this to break the enemy’s morale.

Granted. We even discussed those exact same things in chat when we were analyzing [WM]‘s tactics. It still comes down to a total reliance on overpowering numbers, though. Swarm like gnats to take an objective, and try to reduce the enemy’s numbers by demoralizing the casual players. I’m not saying that it isn’t an effective way to score points, but it is a good way to take all the fun out of the game for everyone, Kaineng included. Just read all the other forum threads here where everyone else is hoping for balanced matches (often even if it means being in a lower tier) so that they can pit their strategies and tactics against each other instead of just raw numbers. Even the winners hate blowouts.

I was sorry to see Mag leave … I won’t be sorry at all to see Kaineng go.

They are using tactics for T1-2 matchups. When you have strong coordinated zegs + several coordinated havoc squads + scouts and spies from all servers on all maps. They are not relying on overwhelming numbers – they have overwhelming numbers and have to use them.

WM has fought outmanned battles may times in T1 with significant success, starting in the HoD / TA days. The “Ball” strategy is actually to be used against opponents stronger in numbers then you.

Granted that it is annoying right now when you get that amount of PvDoor and they hate PvDoor as much as you do. I still don’t really understand why they did that move down. My guess is they had a lot of people in WM dropping from GW2 and this was their way to keep them with a minimal interest until the February update – but do not think they are happy with the current situation.

SBI here.

First – the guilds that moved from SBI to SoR (Mord, Yaki, Syn, SSQ and the rest) were always great and dedicated people – nothing but respect and admiration for them. They fought against odds and won all the time. No hostility from me to anyone there. In fact, it was more of us NA failing them. They were always honest and dedicated. May you find what you looked for.

Second – the announcement of paid transfers was bound to cause this kind of movements. Dedicated WvW guilds wanted to consolidate into a few high level servers, in context of dwindling GW2 population. 100% predictable.

Life will go on and reach a new state of balance in a few weeks/months. Let’s stay classy and enjoy the game the way we can.

GL to all.

Cactus.2710:

By “honest”, he clearly meant his honest view of what he saw. What is so hard to grasp about that?

And for the record, I pretty much agree with him, although I would qualify things just a bit. I played for seven hours straight last night and what I saw were mostly HUGE [WM] zergs that rarely even bothered to place defensive siege in places they capped. They often didn’t even order upgrades for the structure either, even though they typically controlled nearby camps as well. I will say that they were tremendously disciplined and focused, and they truly played like one entity, but whenever we were able to isolate smaller and equal numbers of them they died quickly. I often couldn’t figure out any particular strategy to what they decided to hit at any particular moment, and any time we were able to hold them off at a tower more than a few minutes they left. It was simply the most opportunistic style of play I’ve seen thus far in WvW. Our general impression all night long was that with equal numbers Mag would wipe them out.

On the other hand, there were some small and medium sized groups of non-[WM] Kaineng running around that were pretty tough and seemed to play with broader tactics. I came across one such group just outside of Mendons that included some [RE] that impressed me as being solid. If [WM] ever learns anything from you guys Kaineng overall could be pretty impressive, but [WM] has been around quite a while and I’m not seeing any evidence that they embrace anything except the zerg. I never even saw any [WM] outside of their own zergs … not in Kaineng’s other groups and not even in small teams of [WM].

And yes, that is all simply my opinion, but I am being honest about it.

What you observed is probably true. WM has particular strategies that you need to be there to understand (even then it takes time – but they are effective).

First – they aleays play the “server morale” game. Winning is the long term is largely dependent on how many PuGs will come and follow you – I was one of these PuGs. I remember in a highly competitive map, Jang called us and went to the NW door of an enemy controlled Bay. There they attacked the door a few times then we stood on the stairs, killing the waves or reinforcements coming from the enemy garison and citadel. For about 20 minutes. Someone asked him “why are we doing this ?” – " To break their morale".

There is little point in fortifying/upgrading when you have a 600+ lead. You want the opponent to take their towers/keeps – gives you (and the pug zerg) something to do. I you fortify everything and the opponent cant take anything – your own PuGs will become bored and lose morale or start JP/spawn camping. You need to feed them kills and badges – so you need an opponent. I can assure you that in highly contested maps they were building everything – it made sense.

Also – they have the “move like a ball – leave no tail” strategy – a very fast moving zerg group (better have plenty of speed buffs if you want to keep up) hitting targets of various importance (camps, towers, even sentries) – in an apparently random manner. If you can’t take a tower in 5 minutes – move along. All this to break the enemy’s morale.

The issue BG is facing is that in T1 servers are obsessed with points and rank. Which leads to the ugliest official 2vs1 you’ll ever see. JQs master this at perfection since the HoD days when SBI first got sent to T2. The SoS leader of one of their biggest guilds has wrote a guide on “how to use 2vs1 effectively”. And they are proud of it.

I’m not a big fan of BG, and they did tend to complain a lot. But I do believe them when they decribe SoS and JQs teams building golems one near the other to send them against the only BG keep on the map. We’ve been there.

This is what it takes to win/survive in the current T1 – hit the third server to make sure they are lower in rank than you. This is what got many SBI WvWers disgusted over the last few months – you try to constantly defend against two mutually non hostile zergs. There were times in EB when they had two sets of siege built targeting our spawn camp.

SBI never ever wanted to do this and we were laughed at as “losers”. 2vs1 is bound to happen in the heat of the action – but this was too much. IOJ did not like to do this either and they were out. BG were the weaker link when they were up with us and JQ focused on them too (SBI was focusing on them too but for different reasons -not 2vs1). Once SoS arrived and JQ found a like minded server strong enough to compete 2vs1 against SBI became official policy. BG is living it right now.

Fortunately, with the Elo system in place, BG will stay in T1 at least a few more weeks. Maybe more if we stay on 2nd or third place. I’ve seen no trace of “strategic” 2 vs 1 in T2 so far and hope never to see it.

Good luck to all!

We have a significant Asian/oceanic population, some since the beginning, some more recent. Maybe fewer since WM left. Since there are no dedicated Asian servers and you cannot restrict the game to English speaking players, I never found it annoying. Also – most of them will gladly translate important comms.

If your full guild decided to leave our server because they were annoyed by people speaking their own language in chat……. then GL wherever you are. I consider them my friends, after fighting so many battles together, no matter their language.

SBI misses our WM friends…. Good luck wherever you are. We are having great fun in T2 but it still feels kinda empty without our generals.

For our TC and SoR partners in this matchup who want updated scores – we have a dedicated player named Stovokor (he’s on WvW so often that I suspect him to be a robot/zombie/mutant) who graciously keeps updated score pages on our server, WvW section :

http://www.stormbluffisle.com/index.php/forum/wvw/1341-weekly-match-18-jan11-jan18-latest-scores

It’s easier there than here since there are no text posts on. And we are also fond of our server site = shameless plug.

BTW- My conclusion after 2 days with you guys is that T1 servers were so obsessed with points and winning that they forgot what WvW is about.

You have a major guild leader in there that wrote a detailed guide just a few weeks before he got toT1 on how to “enjoy WvW and not care about points or rank”. Now he does military maneuvers in PvE with the new recruits (from LA to Orr coordinated on TS) and kicks recruits for not obeying orders or having the right setup. Then brags about his Kills/deaths ratio and writes a guide on how to use the 2vs1 in your advantage.

You have another guild leader sending troll PMs to a Korean commander (that doesn’t understand English) and then comes bragging (on our SBI forums) about how “effective” his “morale lowering” tactics were. In direct fights he was apparently running behind his troops at the slightest danger.

During the last weeks, when SBI clearly lacked coverage, whenever a strong group of SBI WvWers were on one map, the opponent would just switch map and capture targets that we had no people to defend. Or hide behind walls.

Then two days before we move to T2 – they come on our forums and challenge us to an open field fight, at a place and time of their choice, the kind of fight they avoided for weeks.

Based on how the Elo system works, I guess we will be playing against each other for a while. It will probably be a good thing.

StormWolf.7645:

While I agree with the person saying this is incredibly honorable, it’s also not needed. :p Remember there’s a patch in place that makes any DC count as a “Death” if you were in combat. So that person DID get credit for the kill already…and a loot bag if one dropped.

Yea – been told that Just shows you I never felt concerned by the issue – oh well.

Lots of fun for SBI, I can tell you – full fights for every objective, just the resistance we faced when doing the breakout on Briar was impressive. A change from what T1 used to be lately – mostly coverage wars, capping with zergs against outmanned foes and avoiding fights when numbers equal.

AT about 18h EST today something happened in the TC BL.

I was a sylvari mesmer (with TA shoulders) manning a balista near the south wall of Bay. I got downed by a TC D/D ele in front of the vale supply camp when my computer crashed which could absolutely look like an AltF4. I want to assure our new friends on TC I never did this on purpose and find AltF4 despicable behavior (like most SBIers). The ele in question – please contact me in game (Idril Sylverfoot- when I manage to log again ) to find a way to compensate for the loss of your kill.

Thx for your comprehension and apologies again.

The point is selling gems for money is probably the main income source for ANet right now. Every gold seller that succeeds in a transaction costs them money. They are extremely aggressive because of that.

So they tolerate the false positives (if 9 guild leaders got hit – imagine how many others) in order to make money. Business model.

BTw- here is the Jedbacca mini I got

ANet puts a lot of value into giving every player the freedom to do what he pleases (as long as he’s not griefing others). It’s an illusion to think that once free transfers are stopped your server will suddenly achieve a sense of community. Every server will still a mixture of all kind of people.

It’s not free transfers that should be stopped. They should introduce some sort of guild vs guild PvP (the game is named Guildwars after all). That will solve most of the frustrations from WvW.

PRX were on with an army of 6+ golems on JQ BL, 30 minutes after reset on friday. If that’s a casual week…

But I agree, fractals are really fun and have ub4r l00t too.

This is an internal matter for SBI. Keg (a commander I respect a lot) said that that kid was maybe someone from elsewhere (in response to an accusation that he was from some SBI guild. Then Cover Girl (another commander I appreciate a lot) reacted to a perceived unjustified offense to our partner servers in T1. We are all on the same side and probably thinking alike. Nothing to see there. Oh, and I also have the utmost consideration towards DD.

BTW CG – it is past time you came and say hello on our forums. More come, yes ?

Server hoppers are human beings. Players trying to enjoy playing a game. Who are we to tell them what they should do or not ? In the name of what ? Loyalty to a name and a bunch of people they do not even know ?

SBI since BWE. SBI till they shut down the server (or I get too bored to play). 0 server transfers in my history. On SBI we had a massive influx of WvW interested server hoppers. Some came when we were crushed by HoD, some only recently. Some turned out great companions – some give us headaches. I know for sure that some of the old timers on the server are annoyed by the randomness of our WvW population at times. But we have no ownership over the server – it belongs to them now too, till they transfer elsewhere at least. So we let them be – try to convert them to the Light when we can. Do our thing – log on and try to win, ignore the points.

Players that change servers to get a more pleasant gaming experience have the right to do it. Unless, of course, they are purposely trying to grief others, which is not ok in any context.

There is no healing class. There are no uber efficient healing skills (including water ele). Anet made this choice since the beginning – everyone has to rely on his own mitigating skills – like rolling, and standing out of damage. They want a PvP that’s action based not skill based. You want games where PvP is based on using the right skill rotation and maybe the best items ? there are plenty but not this one.

How do you imagine that putting 40 players in the same spot in space is something “smart” and not an engine abuse ? Stacking 40 people in the same point is a “valid tactic” ? Just because ANet can’t switch collision detection (would be a mess) it does not mean they wanted people to do this. Just like the fact that they cannot switch to server side position handling (to avoid lag and rubberbanding) – doesn’t mean you are allowed to teleport.

The turtle is a symbol for a specific sort of gameplay: numbers + specific skill rotation + abuse of skill limitations/flaws. This is hopefully not the sort of gameplay they want on GW2.

Turtles were the IWAY of WvW. A way for a group of less skilled players and commanders to win against more skilled players. Playing the turtle is admitting you are not skilled enough to play something else. Complaining about the turtle is admitting you do not have the skill to defeat it.

PvP is a matter of individual skill. WvW should be a matter of individual skill + battle awareness + experience etc. Not about abusing a minor game mechanic.

I can’t believe what I’m reading at times.

“Funny that you should think 6 or 7 people should be able to trivialize ownership of a keep vs 50+ people attacking.”

No matter how much siege they might have, if you lead a team of 50+ and you cannot get past a group of 6-7 that’s just….sad. Don’t rush in arrow cart range … take them down. There are always ways to do it. Attack in two different spots or lay down your own siege – those 50+ players should have a lot of supplies, right ?

On SBI I’ve been part of hundreds of keep/tower takings. Some were plain brute force but some were beautifully skilled. Spike building ballistas to destroy trebs. Spike building catapults to to take down walls in 1 minutes. Sneaky ninja teams to take down gates unnoticed. Diversionary tactics to lure the enemy zerg out or to take down siege.

I remember once when we wanted to take the orb from a fortified and enemy Hills Keep with a big enemy zerg roaming. For 1 hour we had suicide squads going and clearing the siege on the walls. Then, when scouts spotted the enemy zerg somewhere around the northern camp, we launched the 6 golem, mesmer portalled rush to the now low sieged NW Hills gate. 10 minutes after we were in the lords room. We did not keep it for long, but boy, was it fun. That’s how siege is done.

Not by spamming auto attacks on the gate while stacking 40-50+ people.

Maybe now, those 40+ players will try to learn better ways to fight – ways that involve, moving, location, rolls, wise usage of skills, siege, and overall battle awareness.

Can someone who understands the matching system explain us the odds of BG going to T2? The site we use is projecting BG tick at 265 (I guess) – that might not be accurate, but I honestly do not know much about how this works.

Someone from our server made this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=iIxV9O8yJaU

On SBI we were initially surpised by the turtle system. We learned to fight them. We are grateful for BG fro bringing new challenges to a rather monotonous gameplay.

Klawlyt.6507:

What if your loyalty points were doled out each 15 minutes with the overall score? Rather than anet trying to balance the reward between guarding yaks and taking keeps, we could just peg it directly to server performance. There would need to be a bit of smoothing for people logging in/out in the middle of a 15 minute period, but I think that would be the simplest and fairest solution.

Other than that great ideas all around. Keep rewards cosmetic/organizational! (ie commander icon equivalents)

This idea, giving individual reward points based of server score and time spend, would lead to :
– people flooding the top servers of every tier even more then they are now.
– people going AFK for hours in spawning camp, with a bot refresher to avoid getting kicked.

There is an individual WvW individual reward point system right now – it’s called prestige and rewards people who do their best to help their server win. It has no points or flashy emotes – but when I log into the BL maps and see this particular commander name – I know he has a high prestige level in my book. Even non commanders that I played with and I respect a lot.

We have this commander, highly respected, on SBI that I will not name who brings his legendary black greatsword to game. When this happens, people call him “hey … your sword looks really stupid !”. Of course this is not true – but this is to remind him and everyone else that we respect him and admire him for his actions, not his itamz or emotes/titles.

I do not think that IWAY fueled Phoenix emotes brought much to the PvP community in GW1.

Right now you have the Influence reward system. This targets guilds while you guys want individual rewards. I can understand that.

However, when introducing a reward system, you have to think there will be abusing, farming etc. Whatever behavior you reward – will tend to repeat. A lot. In ways we cannot imagine right now.

When escorting Yaks gave Exp/Karma – there was a bunch of PvErs doing nothing but that. They had to nerf it.

If your rank rewards taking towers – you will have people flipping the same tower 10 times per hour – why defend it ? (maybe if defending it was rewarded but still)

If you reward kills – see badge farmers.

If you reward building siege weapons – there will be seas of fire rams inside supply camps. And so on.

Individual rewards in WvW will most likely lead to players doing the behavior that brings them the reward. In excess, without any consideration to the team effort. Individual rewards will ultimately hurt the players that are there for the guild and the team effort and promote the ones that want individual recognition. Anet had to make a choice, and they did.

Badges are the individual reward. Then you have the guild based reward.

Discussion from the Team chat in SBI, BGBL.

someone – "do we go for BG garrison or for the JQ zerg at Victors ?
Commander – “hmm..Badges or points”
Commander – “lets do badges – fighting JQ is more fun, and we have enough points.”

Definitely 2vs1.

It’s called siege decay, I think. An intended game mechanic. You need to “refresh” siege to reset the decay timer. There must be guide somewhere on how to do it.

Just came back from JQ BL. The fight is brutal between JQ and SBI, must have seen dozens of zerg vs zerg. Trebbing the bay door down and getting the south inner door down only to get wiped in the lord room.

Must have fought JQ for 50% of the time. 40% was running around. 10 % against BG…they were rarely there.

Get this – JQ and SBI are fighting each other like there’s no tomorrow, since they are very close in the battle for the 1st spot. If you imagine that they actually have some secret pact to send BG down to tier 2 you are really overestimating your importance.

But I guess it’s simpler to live thinking that they joined up to beat you then to accept you have a lot less people right now in WvW for reasons I do not know but might be temporary.

Esoteric.5490:

It was also documented that the accounts of those orb hackers were accounts that were known to have been on SBI previously. SBI’s leadership (Vihar GM of [Rage] especially) has explicitly stated that they wish to “punt” Blackgate out of tier 1 because we don’t play with honor. I am personally offended by this and the leadership on SBI has also stated that they don’t care about what JQ is doing as long as they can stick it to Blackgate. These opinions are those of SBI’s leadership and I find them to be incredibly immature. .

This is pure BS. Please send me any proof for hackers were from SBI by PM – It’s the first time I hear about it – I will personally check with our leaders and clear the issue. It’s not impossible – but it’s the first time I hear about it.

As for Vihar’s call and “the leaders that backed him” – just read the thread by yourself – it’s still up on our forums – the only ones in this tier available to anyone. We have nothing to hide.

http://www.stormbluffisle.com/index.php/forum/wvw/907-a-thought-on-what-we-can-do-for-fair-play

A mesmer that hids in the Hills for 4 hours, not discovered and not moving, while possible is highly unlikely. The thing to do would have been to take screenies.

I formally require from now on that any mesmer that hids takes regular screenshots, just in case his presence is contested. In absence of said screenies, people have the right to call foul play.

Zenyatoo.4059:

I dont really understand why everyone assumes that it’s crying when you point out what SHOULD occur if all teams had proper game sense.

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Last night, JQ was the team with bad game sense. Based on the recent SBI posts I can only assume that its currently SBI with bad game sense. Which saddens me because they certainly seemed to have better game sense last night. Maybe it’s just the US primetime SBI that is bad. Who knows.

Again in short:
The only team who should be getting 2v1’d is the people in first. If this isnt happening, then some team is playing stupidly, and by god i’m going to point them out and ask what the heck they think they’re doing. ;p

Te make it clear – for SBI, if it’s red it’s dead. I’ve been on the maps at many different times and I can certify that there was never “hit this one for points strategy and leave the other be”. We are vikings raiding the coast – when we see a town -we take it.

Any server wide strategy based on point gains is a failure, mostly because points mean nothing – the enjoyment of the fight is the most important part.

Not engaging in 2vs1 might cost us points sometimes – yet doing it would cost us our pride.

Maybe it was just a bunch of illusionary berserkers ? First time I hear about such exploit and the screenshots are not clear.

Kyiv.9621:

kidbs.8920:

Gotta love people who waste precious WvW slots on griefing a jumping puzzle. They really need to remove all PvE content from WvW.

This was the night before reset when the scores weren’t gonna change. JQ were advertising all WvW players to go to JP and get chest with their main and alts in preparation for next weeks battle.

Even low level alts can drop the blueprints for others to pick up. Great strategy if you ask me.

Maybe not great. Cheesy yet legit. Other servers can always organize a push or something (yet we were busy fighting upstairs on the map). JQ gets their satisfaction the way they can

I don’t know why but I guess there was a memo instructing JQs how to do it. And a nice chart attached

Not to mention that in Dark Souls I was allowed to snipe most enemy bosses with my bow from safe spots. Including the last ones. Including sniping one through the door before entering his room. Not a good example IMO.

The description on the portal skill on the mesmer says your allies are supposed to take it to get on your position. It’s completely logical to assume they realized the uses in WvW and they accepted them from the start.

I used “borderline” for mesmer hiding not mesmer portalling. Mesmer hiding is a 100% legit tactic, but easy to use as excuse for hacks.

Now – think about the consequences if jumping around the mountains into hills (my guess is that’s your example) is allowed – it means there is no point in fortifying/placing siege or upgrading that keep.

Dark Souls PvP is 1vs1. There was a lot of grief in there but it was limited to one person. What’s acceptable in a 1vs1 is not acceptable in a map wide MMORPG where one person can grief a whole group.

Using flawed design to get a major advantage is called an exploit. Remember the karma to gold conversion.

Also – this can become an excuse for teleport hacks caught in the action “I just jumped here”.

Using it for your enjoyment is defendable. Porting a group inside the keep by using it is not.

The official ways inside a keep are pretty clear on the maps. If you find flaws in design report them and restrain from using them

That’s because you are using the nekkid hack Captain (dazing enemies with your stunning clothless looks) – The moa was angered at your attempt to steal his technique.

Raehvyn.4530:

Coordinating it on at least Stormbluff has been a challenge. People who understand what is asked of them but don’t want to do it are a problem. Also, it is difficult because there is also a large Korean population. I don’t expect every Korean to speak English or even understand what is being asked of them just like I don’t think they expect me to understand what they’re saying.

Whether willful ignorance or an honest language barrier in my experience it has been a challenge. This is just my experience though, I don’t know if it is the rule of thumb on SBI or if I am just exceptionally unlucky.

Koreans who play on SBI are usually competent and experienced WvWers. A week ago after reset, I logged on SBI BL only to hear someone calling his group “idiots”, “morons” because they would not listen to the “stack” calls. I immediately said in team that calling your own servermates idiots is forbidden on this server. We are in this together and if someone’s ignorance causes your loss, take the time to calmly explain the issue after, so that the same error is not to be repeated.

This info is just one of the many infos that some players do not know and are there to learn. Where to place siege to be effective, how to take down a lord with Righteous Indignation, how to defend an attacked gate, how to run supply etc.

There are people that join WvW for the first time and lack experience. If we want WvW to flourish we need them. Raging at them for errors they make is pointless.

When Anet wanted to make a place hard to reach yet reachable – they made a jumping puzzle.

This is clearly an exploit. It’s not even a jumping performance but abusing a limit in teleporting targeting. You get one mesmer in – you get an army

Makes the whole “fortifying/sieging” pointless. Clearly an exploit that cannot be defended in any way. No self respecting server or commander should tolerate this.

Even the “hidden mesmer” tactic is borderline since most good teams do now full swipes. If you ever hid your mesmer in a keep, please take screenies – otherwise you will not be credible.

Chill out man, it’s only a game, you’re supposed to have fun not rage.

SBI is indeed dependent on PuGs (I’m a pug btw). PuGs that start as noobs then learn and get better, then they get independent.

Many of the pugs I saw during our regular hour fights (not right now – it’s a mess over there when we cannot hold a Tower in a queued SBI BL – I’d hate to be a commander there) are rather competent – they know how and when to run supply, how to report enemy forces, how to use siege and so on.

We do not have a “structured” leadership. We have bands of roaming vikings each with his Jarls, that do their stuff. When they meet – they fight together (since rules do not allow to fight each other ).

On SBI every grunt/soldier is supposed to think like a commander. Or he will have it hard. But once he gets there – it’s really fun.

You probably just had a bad experience. Happens during the post reset hours and week ends, when people are less organized and newcomers are more present. Either tough it and start to learn the game or, well, try again later, in a better mood.

Btw – there is no such thing as “discipline over troops” in SBI. You picked the wrong server to transfer. There is no “hierarchy” no commander considers himself a better player than the rest of us (more knowledgeable maybe, but he had to start too at some point). If people understand why they need to run supply – so be it. Else…

As one of the WM leaders told us when we lost a keep…“Great! Now we go take it back!”.

We want the fight and the fun, not the points.

Edit – I checked your post history and I realized you’ve been here on SBI for a long time. Sorry I assumed you transferred – I just did not see you on our forums.