Guild Wars 2

capping a point takes 10 sec. taking a captured point takes 15 sec. assuming it’s not contested.

if you were to try and take a contested node they wouldn’t be obligated to stand on it throughout the course of the fight. They just can’t let you stand on it by yourself for 15 cumulative seconds. That’s a lot of wiggle room for the defender to be able to jump on and off the point as needed and your 2 dmg wells only last for 10 sec when dropped successively – and considering how tanky you are that’s not a lot of pressure. Once you’re in plague form you won’t hit for anything so he can just stand there for 18 sec with you spamming whatever you like and he’d still never concede the node before yours/his teammates show up.

If its a matter of you defending the point, then any heavy CC build will just knock you clear out of the point long enough to neutralize, and wait out plague form before starting in with the dmg.

Tanky/Bunker necros are not all that strong in PvP atm IMO

Dardamaniac.1295:

You know,im not a pro player..I never was that good in any game.I study Geology,i work right now.I return home from work,i put some sweet music and i play GW2.Just to relax,just to have some time with myself.
So i geuss i will never understand how Xeph feels.
But i have a principle that i will hold on no matter what….
I would never answer pre set questions in anyone.
If you want to talk with me you ll have the real me,not a “speaker”

that’s not how public interviews work. Anytime an interview is conducted publicly the questions are posed and agreed upon ahead of time to:

a.) the information/material is OK/ready to be discussed publicly
b.) make sure there are no surprises or ambushes
c.) make sure there is enough material to fill the time slot

all of which makes the discourse more focused and relevant.

people need to chill. it was a 1 hour discussion by a bunch of guys (not professionals) gracious enough to take the time to try to shed some light on a few things for the community. Was it meant to cover everything? Of course not. Did it give a decent view into the road ahead for GW2 PvP? Certainly. And that’s all it was meant to do.
Try to keep the criticism constructive and polite and future interviews will only get better. Maybe even steamed live! (couldn’t resist)

Camera angle seemed fine to me.

The only significant change I noticed is how much smoother the treb worked. Rotating it was far less clunky than it was before.

Kravick.4906:

There just simply isn’t enough people playing this class for them to spend resources on. Necromancers were one of the lowest played classes at launch. Its going to be even lower now as people have moved on to other classes that don’t have the numerous issues that we do.

Warriors didn’t get anything simply because they’re exactly where ANet feels they should be.

Really? I see necros everywhere in tPvP. Often times as many as 3 in a group when pugging. They are CRAZY popular in tourneys right now.

Also, we are not the “only class with issues”. Every class has issues.

And, according to J Sharp’s interview the other day, Warriors are not fitting into the PvP meta the way ANet wants them to. They only have 1 viable build and it’s super easy to counter. They specially have a hard time with conditions.

XiL.4318:

hackks.3687:

XiL.4318:

hackks.3687:

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

Yer a necro. Not a warlock. I know with broken AI it seems like we are warlocks but they are going to fix the minion AI problems. Then you will be able to use traits like Minions do 30% more damage and have 50% more health and siphon health on hit… etc.

You will be able to blow up a bone minion and know that it will hit for full damage every time. Your Flesh Golem will attack your target instead of the terrain object standing next to it.

Power/Minions/DeathShroud builds will be extremely powerful burst and bunker for almost the same reason. Mostly that Minion AI will work correctly.

Maybe I am a Warlock. I don’t like minions/ai/pets at all in pvp let alone having to rely on them for my class to function to it’s fullest. The best part our skills are the utilities too. It’s really hard to think of filling up those valuable slots with…. ew…. Minions…

Yes because what kind of drooling potato fan would roll necro for the minions… pfft.

What’s wrong with potatoes!?!

AND, wearing a bib is still preferable to slotting… ew… Minions…

this was not a major patch so there’s no real reason to have expected anything for us from this patch. Wintersday patch will be a “huge balance patch” (source – J Sharp)

Couple weeks and we should have some stuff to talk about

XiL.4318:

hackks.3687:

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

Yer a necro. Not a warlock. I know with broken AI it seems like we are warlocks but they are going to fix the minion AI problems. Then you will be able to use traits like Minions do 30% more damage and have 50% more health and siphon health on hit… etc.

You will be able to blow up a bone minion and know that it will hit for full damage every time. Your Flesh Golem will attack your target instead of the terrain object standing next to it.

Power/Minions/DeathShroud builds will be extremely powerful burst and bunker for almost the same reason. Mostly that Minion AI will work correctly.

Maybe I am a Warlock. I don’t like minions/ai/pets at all in pvp let alone having to rely on them for my class to function to it’s fullest. The best part our skills are the utilities too. It’s really hard to think of filling up those valuable slots with…. ew…. Minions…

How does high burst require Minions? When I think about burst builds minions are not my first thought.

Dakiaris.2798:

Wanna know what fear is even longer….. Have a thief steal from you in wvw or pvp… That fear is 4 seconds without any % duration increse.

this kitten right here is overdue for a patch.

I don’t understand what dagger abilities have to do with minions?

And if you’re using an axe in one MH, why wouldn’t you use dagger in the other main hand as the two obviously have the most synergy of the mainhand options where Axe is concerned.

This thread is showing some very narrow views of how to build a necro. I stand by my earliest comment that Necros still have no idea what to do with the Axe.

Axe is a melee/direct dmg assist/set-up weapon. This MM example merely has Minions fulfilling the role that teammates could do just as well, if not better.

1.) Completely wrong. There are a number of ways for players to ensure they prevent a stomp on a teammate as well as the successful stomp on the enemy. Knowing the timing of stomping and reviving and which will be ensure your teammate rallies in any given fight adds to the skill requirement in PvP.

2.) While this might be true it’s a haphazard way to get a heal as you might receive the dmg late and end up downed after the enemy was stomped e.g. no instant revive. Not something I would attempt on the regular.

3.) That’s just your opinion. While it is relevant, it is not necessarily shared by all your fellow players.

4.) Removing the ability to rally would require some drastic changes to the downed state. HP pool would likely have to be increased and the heal made uninterruptible, otherwise downed state would just be a prolonged “dead state” which would just make the fights sluggish and make revive abilities more of a must-have than they already are.

shizo.5698:

The thing with vulnerability: not only you do more damage, everyone else does too.

this.

and 15 more characters

The stun break portion is fine and should remain as such. The protection is also fine and hardly worthless. These two things are on par with the rest of the professions nominal stun breaks. The only thing missing is the 5-10s of stability that it should offer as well. As a light armored caster it’s an obvious oversight that we lack any real form of worthwhile stability with a functional duration. IMO it should be much closer to being on par with Ele’s Armor of Earth excluding the cantrip mastery.

I honestly just don’t think Necro axe has found it’s niche yet. At least when it comes to PvP. If I que with another dmg oriented class the vuln stacking alone will drop targets crazy fast. With axe/focus you can get a 20 stack vuln no problem, plus retal & cripple, boon remove + chill, and the fastest life force gain possible.

I think a lot of people want/expect it to be a front-loaded burst weapon though it functions best as a set up to another weapon. Which lies the other problem. There’s nothing really for it to set up except for dagger #1 spam, and DS #1 and #4.

dreztina.4820:

I wanted to do a quick post on the interview itself.

First off, thanks to everyone that participated. This was probably the best communication Anet has done since launch, and it was made possible by both Jonathan Sharp being willing to put himself on the spot as well as the pros asking questions that were pertinent and important without being overly antagonistic. The thing with interviews like this is that the public always wants more, but if the interviewee gets grilled hard and has a miserable time, they aren’t too likely to do a repeat, so temperance is necessary.

To the host, I liked what you did with just letting people go and only posing questions when things started to die down or wander, but at the beginning, you were speaking so fast that I could barely understand you. I had to really concentrate to keep up, and I’m not usually one to make a complaint like that. Overall you did well, but it’s something you may want to keep in mind.

To the pros, I thought you guys did really well. Most of the questions and feedback you guys gave was really good. They were professionally asked, and when necessary, you guys were able to temper each other to keep the interview friendly and on track. It was especially impressive that you were able to achieve this while speaking in English.

To Jonathan Sharp, I really like the interviews you do. You’re the only person at Anet that seems to give straight forward answers with real details that aren’t excessively bogged down by the PR department. I have no doubt that at some point this will come back and bite you in the kitten but I hope that when it does, you can remember that there are a lot of people who appreciated it along the way.

Overall it was a really solid interview and I hope there can be more in the future.

well put. my sentiments exactly.

Druitt.7629:

hackks.3687:

In fact, every bouncing attack I can think of performs the same way, which is why I posted about Reapers touch, because it wasn’t working anything like the other skills and I thought I had overlooked something or just didn’t understand the tool tip correctly.

The Mesmer Staff bounce does not work that way: it bounces around. The Necro Dagger #4 also bounces around. Not sure if they all have issues with missing, etc, but there are several bouncing attacks in the game that don’t work like Vapor Blade.

Vapor blade “bounces” at the end of its range, the others bounce from target to target by a straight line.

Vapor Blade doesn’t actually bounce. It just boomerangs – goes to the target and comes back. The Mesmer staff bounces but does not return. Same with Guardian scepter and Thief’s shortbow skill Trick Shot.

Point being, NONE of them are interrupted by an ally’s actions.

Loyo.8526:

PvP for me is just plain depressing… decided after a month break to get back to the game and start off in sPvP… realizing that everything still destroys my Necro and Ranger…. So hard to get back into =_=

Necros and rangers seem to be becoming quite popular and finding a good deal of success in PvP lately. They take some understanding and creativity to really make an impact but the potential is there.

My Beastmancer is unstoppable!!!!

also, stay out of 8v8 hotjoins. you can’t learn anything there except how to die to a zerg. Try the 5v5s till you feel more comfortable.

Oozo.7856:

In beta, the trait used to give you stability the entire time you were in DS. That is most likely why you can’t initiate stomps and revives while in DS now. IMO, they forgot to take a second look at whether you should be able to stomp in DS after they nerfed that trait. It would have definitely been OP when you had stability for the full DS.

You can DS revive. I’ve done it alot and I believe its in two of my movies.

I’m still not sure how they are going to come down on this one. DS stomps and revives have an advantage in how frequently you can enter DS and the ability to absorb damage while you are vulnerable stomping and/or reviving.

With mark of revival, Necros can bring a lot to the table in managing downed states during fights. If that is taken away, I’ll just stop playing the necro since it’s a major draw for me when playing with my friends. I’ve already started playing my Guardian again and he is set up to protect stomps and revives with block and stability.

If you don’t have a way to help your group secure stomps and revives, you are actually a detriment to your team.

have you tried it since Nov 15 patch? Because I know it used to work prior to then because I actually did use it. Since then though I have not gotten a single successful shroud-revive. Just a LOT of animation glitches and dead teammates. The last shroudstomp movie of yours I saw that had a shroud-revive in it was from back in Oct. or something.

ugh… thos Spirit weapons are a nightmare.

While I’m really not a fan of all the AI in PvP I really don’t think there’s any chance of it disappearing while it’s so engrained in almost every class design. At the least though, I don’t think pets should contribute to effective limit (5) on attack skills. Majority of the abuse I’ve seen of stacking pets in groups is for this effect.

Druitt.7629:

hackks.3687:

That’s some pretty weak design IMO. The way I assumed the skill would work (and I really feel that it should work this way) is that the scythe is fired and bounces between me and and my opponent granting regeneration/vulnerability to any ally/opponent in between me and my target.

I think that’s pretty much how the Elementalist skill works that makes that whirling sound and goes out then bounces back adding weakness and doing damage. Can’t remember the name, but for Elementalists it’s a single circular projectile that rolls, and some mobs can fire the same thing in a fan of 4 or 5.

Seems like the mechanism is there for it to work somewhat like you describe. (I think the Elementalist skill actually goes to a fixed distance and then bounces back so it will overshoot your initial target, but basically what you’re describing.)

Is the way the scythe works currently the same as the Mesmer staff bounce? Or is the Mesmer staff bounce more reliable? (It always seemed reliable to me, but it’s been a while.)

The Ele dagger skill you’re referring – Vapor Blade – works exactly as I expected the Reapers Touch to work. You fire the skill at your opponent, they receive the dmg and the condition, as does every enemy in between. Similarly the Dagger #2 water skill fires a cone aoe that damages foes and heals allies regardless of what your allies do.

In fact, every bouncing attack I can think of performs the same way, which is why I posted about Reapers touch, because it wasn’t working anything like the other skills and I thought I had overlooked something or just didn’t understand the tool tip correctly.

I just don’t see how it’s reasonable or functional for a teammate to be able to interrupt one of our skills.

It needs looking at IMO.

Amanovik.9257:

Just one question…..

omg ore ….

[url=http://kepfeltoltes.hu/view/121130/gw118_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.jpg][img]

you might want to rethink your build a bit. Rangers aren’t great with opening burst as far as I know so you might want to rethink the whole glass cannon approach. Rangers are an amazing 1v1 class but from what I’ve seen they rely more on condition dmg, CC, traps, and kiting. None of which required being a glass cannon.

Don’t buy into the hyperbole that these boards are so fond of either. You’re screen shot is an example of extreme burst, which is very easily countered with some toughness, awareness, and thoughtful building. I’m not saying you need to spec as a bunker either, but you do need to consider your defensive utilities, traits, etc. as much as you do your dmg output. Mitigating the opening burst with thieves is the hardest part of the job and some toughness, protection, and/or CC will go a long ways towards making that happen.

Don’t be discouraged though. Learn from it, adapt, and come back stronger.

Good luck! Have fun!

PinCushion.7390:

hackks.3687:

That’s some pretty weak design IMO. The way I assumed the skill would work (and I really feel that it should work this way) is that the scythe is fired and bounces between me and and my opponent granting regeneration/vulnerability to any ally/opponent in between me and my target. Given the range, the cast time, low dmg, and CD duration, this seems appropriate and in a PvP combat situation this would be a respectable skill that could function reliably. In the current state though the steep drop off in successful bounces makes the added range from the Spiteful Talisman trait almost worthless, since it’s only truly reliable (read as: worth the low dmg and long cast time in order to place the vulnerability stacks) at close range.

Learn to DS and Reaper’s Touch becomes totally OP…

And in an effort to not be a TOTAL troll, I agree with you. But it’s what we got, so we may as well work with it.

oh no you didn’t L2DS me!! I am the MASTER of DS!!!

lulz

true enough though, it is what it is. at least for the time being. This is definitely something I think devs need to look at though.

Curring.9752:

hackks.3687:

I’m not inclined to think it’s an exploit given that Engi’s and Ele’s can pop skills while casting stomp/revive that make them invulnerable. Other classes can do a variety of little tricks for stomping/reviving as well. I really don’t think it’s intended design though either. It’s just a bug that happens to have no effect on balance, and makes life a little easier on Necros. It’s not like it’s 100% reliable either and doesn’t work at all with reviving.

Even if you don’t spec for stability, shroud stomp is uber useful for finishing off downed players while you have low HP.

Almost 100% sure that it works while reviving. o-o

While I can only speak from my experience in PvP I can say that I shroud-stomp successfully probably 90% of the time. Shroud-revive however has not worked for me since the last major patch (Nov 15) and only yields a nice (read as: not very nice at all) animation glitch that requires you to /sit or other /emotes to be able to move again.

I’m not inclined to think it’s an exploit given that Engi’s and Ele’s can pop skills while casting stomp/revive that make them invulnerable. Other classes can do a variety of little tricks for stomping/reviving as well. I really don’t think it’s intended design though either. It’s just a bug that happens to have no effect on balance, and makes life a little easier on Necros. It’s not like it’s 100% reliable either and doesn’t work at all with reviving.

Even if you don’t spec for stability, shroud stomp is uber useful for finishing off downed players while you have low HP.

That’s some pretty weak design IMO. The way I assumed the skill would work (and I really feel that it should work this way) is that the scythe is fired and bounces between me and and my opponent granting regeneration/vulnerability to any ally/opponent in between me and my target. Given the range, the cast time, low dmg, and CD duration, this seems appropriate and in a PvP combat situation this would be a respectable skill that could function reliably. In the current state though the steep drop off in successful bounces makes the added range from the Spiteful Talisman trait almost worthless, since it’s only truly reliable (read as: worth the low dmg and long cast time in order to place the vulnerability stacks) at close range.

PinCushion.7390:

Regrets of Sini.6083:

AFAIK, all might duration 2-sets stack, so you could have 3x 20% might duration and end up with 20+s mights.

Test this in the mists BEFORE you spend money on runes.

IIRC, 2 of the +Might rune sets count as the same set. So you end up with 4/6 in Fire/Hoelbrack and 2/6 in Strength, rather than 2/6 in all 3 sets.

Tested this last night. Triple 2-set gives 60% duration.
BiP has 12 sec duration, with 10 points in Death Magic BiP’s duration is 13.25, which the 2-set’s then add to for an additional 7.9 sec. When added together my BiP was 21 sec.

Now add 2x sigil of Battles to that, plus Reapers Might and you can maintain a good deal of might (I don’t want to say how much, just try it and see for yourselves) for quite some time while in combat. If you get lucky or get good with focus and well of corruption you can throw a 25 stack of vulnerability on your target to go with all that might. Add in close to death for a 20% dmg and well… let’s just say “Beastmancer lives!”

maybe we shouldn’t be talking about this though. I’ve just fine tuned this build I don’t want it to get nerfed >:)

I don’t understand this “defending should give points”. You kill a player on a node that your team controls, you get 5 points for the kill, and 10 points for objective defender. There’s points!

So what are you guys asking for? Points for sitting on an uncontested node? As in reward people for inaction?

Kravick.4906:

Best bet is to chill your target first with focus 5 after they exhaust their dodges, then hit them with Reaper’s Touch at point blank range so it bounces between you and them really fast. If at any point your target, or the target ally that the scythe bounces between dodges, the bounce chain is stopped. Someone having swiftness on them moving around a lot can also mess up the bounce chain, which is why you need to be up close.

ok, fire it up close. That I can work with.

Enemy’s dodge interrupts the bounce chain. I can work with that, too.

Am I getting this right though, if one of your teammates dodges while in the path of the scythe it will interrupt?

Kravick.4906:

hackks.3687:

Kravick.4906:

Swadow.6213:

For a Necro Staff is a necessity. A build without a Staff is really bad, there is no reason to go without one.

This is wrong. I run a dagger/warhorn axe/focus well build and it works extremely well in both PVE and PVP. I only use staves during tower/keep sieges in WvW, but this is no different than a warrior needing to swap out his off weapon for a longbow/rifle during tower/keep sieges. In PVE there hasn’t been a single instance of me needing to use a staff.

I made another attempt at using axe/focus + dagger/warhorn last night in PvP and while I was devastating at close range I was complete fodder if they could keep me at range. I just don’t feel like Necros have the mobility (such as leaps and gap closers) to make this build work except in niche roles in a group such as point defense where mobility isn’t as important.

Dark Path and Spectral Grasp are your friends. When I get home from work, I will post my build and describe how I make it all work. Your millage may vary, of course.

Please do post the build. Curious to see what other necros are doing with the Axe. The #2 and #3 skills are killer IMO and it works so nice with the focus. I’d like to get a solid axe build going and I sorta feel like I’m on the right track. It’s a big deviation from my normal play style though so I need to give it a day or two to really iron out the kinks.

Kravick.4906:

Swadow.6213:

For a Necro Staff is a necessity. A build without a Staff is really bad, there is no reason to go without one.

This is wrong. I run a dagger/warhorn axe/focus well build and it works extremely well in both PVE and PVP. I only use staves during tower/keep sieges in WvW, but this is no different than a warrior needing to swap out his off weapon for a longbow/rifle during tower/keep sieges. In PVE there hasn’t been a single instance of me needing to use a staff.

I made another attempt at using axe/focus + dagger/warhorn last night in PvP and while I was devastating at close range I was complete fodder if they could keep me at range. I just don’t feel like Necros have the mobility (such as leaps and gap closers) to make this build work except in niche roles in a group such as point defense where mobility isn’t as important.

Swadow.6213:

For a Necro Staff is a necessity. A build without a Staff is really bad, there is no reason to go without one.

I was trying to prove this wrong last night

I failed….

Ele staff build is primarily support based though you can kick out some decent combos and aoe dmg. They struggle against melee burst though as they can’t swap weapons to adjust play style to something more effective against melee. Ele’s have the most survivability and mobility of the three.

Staff Necro isn’t quite as all-inclusive but is definitely one of the stronger Necro weapons. Unlike Ele’s though, Necros have the option to swap weapons giving them the ability to change play styles on the fly or reinforce the staff with scepter conditions. DS adds quite a bit of survivability in the right hands, though mobility is not a necro’s strong suit.

you might also consider…

Staff Mesmer. They offer some interesting build options and playstyles and also have a good melee build (Sword/Pistol or Sword/Sword) to compliment the staff. They’re elusive as all hell and have arguably some of the best group utilities in the game. They’re also the best 1v1 class in PvP.

Just some food for thought. Have fun!

How do you guys get this attack to hit reliably in PvP?

I got super excited by the numbers I was seeing in a pure power/toughness/vitality build by stacking vulnerability and might against the practice golems (25 stack of vulnerability + 16 stack of might + 3k power + Spite XII = OH MY!) but in practice against other players the reliability of the skill fell through the basement. More often than not I’d only get one hit in.

Just wondering if there are some tips to ensuring more hits with it. Need to make this work for my PvP Beastmancer™ build >:)

Cheers.

Vilar.2680:

hackks.3687:

Shroud stomp still works for me. At least it was last night and the night before, and the night before that.

Shroud revive has been buggy for a while though. If you get stuck just do a /sit and you’ll fix the glitch

well, whenever I tried to Shroud stomp after the patch of november i would do the whole stomping animation but wouldn’t get the stomp, maybe i am doing something wrong but i used to do it with no trouble before the patch.

well you have to remember that it’s not an intended design so reliability is never going to be a strong aspect of it. More often than not it works for me but there are times when it obviously fails. Worst case scenario, you eat their interrupt while still under the effects of stability and simply start your stomp again.

It’s not great, but it’s better than nothing…

My two biggest issues with the class atm are the lack of a stability/invulernability (I just want one!), and the heavy restrictions on functionality when using DS.

edit: also, I don’t have mine on a macro. I simply mapped the interact key right next to the DS key and hit them both at the same time. Works like… well, almost like, a charm.

I can’t help but wonder if the learning curve for players new to s(t)PvP is too steep.

I know for me personally early on it was a huge challenge to learn a brand new style of combat in addition to the maps, strategies, opposing class mechanics, capture mechanics, etc. I only bought the game because of what I had heard about the PvP, but I was so overwhelmed by having to learn everything right from the go that I found myself heading off to do solo PvE just so I could get my head around what my class actually did when it wasn’t being BBQd in a matter of seconds by players who appeared to be far more familiar with the game than I was.

These days I see people new to PvP jumping into free tourneys because they found Hotjoins so unappealing only to find out that tPvPers are a PvPnewbie’s worst nightmare. And to add insult to injury they’re getting flamed by their teammates for even thinking of jumping into a tournament que at rank 1. I typically never see those players again – and with the PvP community getting so small, recognizing teams/names is becoming rather common.

So maybe there needs to be a form of progression to PvP so that players can learn more slowly and easily, rather than the trial-by-fire they’re currently submitted to? If a player can’t feel like they’re learning, progressing, getting better within a reasonable amount of time why would they continue to try?

Tl;DR – sPvP does not cater to casual or PvP-curious players.

Anyway, just a thought I had.

Shroud stomp still works for me. At least it was last night and the night before, and the night before that.

Shroud revive has been buggy for a while though. If you get stuck just do a /sit and you’ll fix the glitch

so far they have come 1/month and fall somewhere around the 15th. There’s still plenty of work needed so I would imagine that Dec will probably see another sizable fix/balance patch.

RE: “Best Dagger Build” – there’s really nothing yet that anyone could point to and say “this is the best dagger build”. There are some popular build choices for complimenting daggers, however, which would include Staff and dmg Wells, as all three (dagger/staff/wells) benefit from Power stacking, and also play into the strengths and design of the class, giving you the option to start a fight at range and finish with melee (or the opposite if you get the jump on someone and they make a break for it), which for a light armored class that lacks impressive burst (it’s not bad, it’s just not OMGWTFBBQ kind of dmg) is probably a safer way to go about handling some engagements. Personally, I opt for the warhorn OH with MH dagger for some extra utility to cover my kitten while in melee range, as most dmg will be coming from dagger #1 spam and the wells anyways, but all three OH weapons are perfectly viable and bring something different to your build.

Hope that helps. Have fun!

yep, that’s exactly what I had in mind. Soul Reaping III and XII just go nicely together, though if you’re looking to get in and out of DS quite a bit to absorb pressure you might look at Spite V, which works nice for absorbing dmg and giving some of it back. Spite X would work nice for you chill build as well. Honestly you have lots of options there but the build is starting to look more focused and well put together. Only thing that I might take another look at is the lack of a stun break, but if you’re DS is on low enough CD, and DS-Fear is on a short CD as well, you should have a decent chance of keeping burst off of you. If I had to drop anything for a stun break I might take a look at swapping out Spectral Grasp for Walk or Armor, sicne you already have Dark Path on a shorter CD than Grasp. If you can be a bit more preemptive in avoiding the CC you can swap Soul Reaping XII for XI and get that stability while in DS. Works nice against heavy CC built opponents and will keep you from getting DS skill interrupted.

Either way, should be a fun build. Enjoy!

I’d ditch the II trait in Soul Reaping since it has no effect on the actual cost of the skills. I prefer either the 15% increased speed or the CD reduction. Since you’ve taken CD reduction for DS I’d recommend the DS skill CD reduction.

Spectral CD reduction is getting minimal use as well since you’re only using the Grasp which is the shortest of all the Spectral CDs. You might try Soul Marks for added LF on marks, or the increase in Fear duration.

You could then take 10 points out of curses and put them back into Spite for the Spiteful Marks, or go with add another chill with Chill of Death. You could also move them into Death magic for the CD reduction on Staff skills. The 33% chance on crit to generate 1% LF is barely noticeable and not worth the trait IMO.

Just my thoughts after giving it a quick glance.

KirinDave.6451:

Yukishiro.8792:

engi have generally amazing ones for example.

If you would like to see a community of players even more irritable, confused, and annoyed than the necromancers then the Engineers are where you should go. Their best pvp burst got nerfed, their trait lines are awfully muddled and one line is almost entirely neglected because the only thing worse than minions are turret utilities.

Elementalists are similarly generally pretty mad that 30 in arcane seems utterly mandatory. Don’t believe me, go ask.

Mesmers, though, I agree with. That class goes from extremely frustrating to extremely interesting within the span of about 30 trait points.

So don’t feel too bad.

Do you actually play an Engi?

Yukishiro.8792:

Uh I play an Engi. You are rather clueless. Engis have a lot of bugs, and some design issues, but Engi traits are pretty awesome. Certainly way better than necro ones.

Like I said, I can name like 8-10 awesome Engi traits off the top of my head that change how the class plays quite dramatically. Necro traits in contrast tend to be “+10% more this” and “+5% more that.”

because Yuki does. and so do I. and I agree with Yuki

Zeke Minus.5720:

@hackks
Very good advice, and something I have done briefly. I understand how fragile Thieves are, and also understand how they can blow all of their initiative easily. As Box of Ants has mentioned, there are combos that are nearly unavoidable. If you do manage to DS-Fear, back off and plant a staff#5 and drop a well, they tend to just ignore it.

With conditions against a pistol whip build, building them up to be threatening takes much longer than the time it takes them to lock you down. With chill/dagger build, they can back off and use a Shortbow until you get to 75/80% and rush in to try and take you out. I played against this kind of Thief and was unable to do much.

I will experiment with how I approach them and practice at reading which cooldowns they use. I really have trouble with them shooting from range as I try to slow them/apply bleeds, then start the CnD or pistol whip routine, then I DS fear. By this time, in either spec, I have about 50% health. I attempt to heal, then they either use basilisk venom/steal-fear and heartseeker, or pistol whip until I die xD

EDIT: To be clear, the issue is not “Can I reasonably kill them,” it’s more along the lines of “How can I prevent my death within 5 seconds.” I know I must do my best to trip them up and make them waste initiative and cooldowns, but I only have so many things to keep them occupied or repel them.

Preventing your death in 5 sec really comes down to whether or not you have LF built up or not. It’s a question of, can I absorb this burst and negate all the initiative they just spent or not? If no, then it’s time to run and start dropping marks and kiting – a moving target is actually a big pain in the kitten for Theives. If yes, then it’s time to make life hard for them. Your Fears need to be used sparingly though for when they become aggressive, not sequentially just to move them a bit further away and buy you one more second before they turn and unload a series of heartseekers on you.

There’s a lot of ways the fight can go honestly. Being familiar with thier skills/builds/mechanics is the biggest help you’ll get in fighting thieves. understanding what’s coming when they move in, or what they’re doing if they’re staying back with short bow, or even what they’re doing while they’re in stealth, waiting to reset the fight. All of it requires a different response and is gauged differently based on your build and play style.

I’d say go back to the shatter build and watch him get jealous. Or go duel him and drop a null field right as he’s blowing his condition load on you. Or just daze and stun lock his kitten since he has 0 stability. In PvP, it gets no better than Mesmer. Necro’s are somewhere around the middle of the food chain. Mesmer sits on top.

Well, it’s not as if a power build can’t incorporate the curses tree into their build and benefit from it. But it should be understood that you’re augmenting your power build to a more hybrid build by incorporating condition dmg with it. Which is not necessarily a bad thing for Necros. But because Curses is so narrowly condition focused your not going to have a ton of options to choose from or find a lot of obvious synergy. Creatively you might be able to come up with something. Currently though, I don’t spec more than 10 points into curses in my power builds and that’s only to add a little extra bleeding and crit. There’s nothing else in there I want unless I’m going spectral and want the increased durations.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Actually all level 80 exotic axes, daggers and scepters have the same median base damage of 952.5.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Ghastly_weapons if you want to run the math yourself. (axe actually has lower base than scepter but a wider range)

Staff doesn’t generate conditions, axe does. Not sure if typo.

For Curses being a hybrid tree, 300 precision obviously benefits power builds. Other traits in tree that come to mind: -20% damage to corruptions cooldowns, grants you greater might uptime with Blood is Power, enhancing power ability (as well as condition uptime). Ground Targeted wells are power enhancements exclusively. Life force gain traits from V and X tend to benefit power builds than condition (since deathshroud is mostly power damage). Furious Demise benefits power as well, which goes hand in hands with the trees emphasis on critting for both conditions and innate power bonuses.

And to fulfill my selfishness:

‘ifs’, ‘ands’, ‘buts’

Umm, “Staff does not generate conditions, Axe does…” Are you for real? ! Axe = Vulnerability, Cripple; Staff = Bleed, Chill, Poison, and weakness if you count the blast combo.

Corruptions are power based? BiP is the only one that does anything for power builds and that’s only by happy coincidence. Corrupt Boon, Epidemic, and Corrosive Poison cloud are obviously condition based utilities as that is exactly what they do, apply conditions.

Life force gains are there to supplement the slow LF accrual that comes with using the Scepter. Dagger, Axe, and Staff all accrue LF at a faster rate.

The Fury in DS is their to provide the On Crit procs for condition builds as you can see from the On Crit traits residing in the tree as well as the lackluster dmg output in DS for condi builds.

Seriously, you are grasping at straws. Saying crit benefits power is hardly an argument for Curses being a “hybrid” tree. The only you get “hybrid” out of curse is by speccing equally deep into Spite.

Honestly if you want to know how to more easily beat a thief then just go play one for a couple days. You’ll quickly get a feel for what their weaknesses are and what you can do within your build to exploit those weaknesses.

Also, Well of Darkness won’t do much for you against fast-attack classes. it only applies a blind every sec and they’ll hit you faster/more frequently than that. The blind only lasts for a single attack as well. So if someone pops haste you might avoid 1 out of every 3. As it just so happens though, burst classes are squishy, so if you drop Well of Corruption + Well of Suffering + Chillbains and combo them with Putrid Mark, you’ll likely kill them in a matter of moments. If you’re caught on the run then just never stop moving and keep dragging them through conditions before turning and bursting them down.

Mega Skeleton.8259:

Well actually, the Barbed Precision trait is notably worse than the Sigil as it’s 1 second of bleeding vs 5 seconds. (I still like it though)

Personally, as I was arguing in another thread I think the Curses tree is totally designed with condition/power synergy in mind. Prec/Condition damage stat gains, traits that benefit both power and condition builds throughout. Saying it’s “primarily a condition tree” doesn’t make it totally true. Even the scepter has condition/power synergy built into it’s abilities, with Feast of Corruption. And if you say “oh it’s bad” that’s not a synergy issue, that’s a numbers issue.

Scepter has lower base dmg than the other mainhand weapons and is the only mainhand weapon aside from staff that consistently generates conditions. Feast of Corruption’s dmg output is also based on conditions. It is a condition weapon, not a power weapon. No ‘ifs’, ‘ands’, or ‘buts’ about it. And what other power traits are in that tree? Because from what I’m looking at every trait is condition based aside from Banshee’s Wail and the warhorn is a utility weapon not a dmg weapon.

Well while Funky sorts that out….

Re: OP’s notion on Necro traits – consider for a moment that Barbed Precision, our BEST adept minor trait (as in miles ahead of our next 5pt trait), is exactly the same as Sigil of Earth which is available to any and all professions.

OK, well what about the other profession’s 5pt minor traits in the same tree? Well they are: 10% increased movement speed (Ele), bleed on crit proc (warrior/engi), aoe blind (guardian), Vigor on crit proc (Mesmer), swiftness on weapon swap (ranger), and 5% crit chance increase while health above 90% (thief).

Now aside from the Warrior and Engi those are some rather singular and class relevant minor traits and for only 5 trait points. Warriors I see, however, can also trait for a nice 10% dmg boost on bleeding targets and extend the duration of their bleeds by 50% with a single Major and Minor trait – and all in the same tree without even having to max it out. Engi’s seem to have virtually the same traits available as the Warrior’s. I’d call that pretty decent synergy.

Looking at the same trait line for Necro’s we see traits for 2 different weapons, 3 different utility skill sets, and a 2% dmg per condition stack in a primarily condition based tree that doesn’t focus on direct dmg output. That litttle cluster kitten would be the opposite of synergy.

There’s no arguing that Necro traits are lackluster and the trait lines are poorly thought out. Whether OP’s example was correct or not, is besides the point.

Whether you like/love/hate your Necro makes no difference. Bad trait design is bad. Nothing more to it.

Funky.4861:

I had a look here http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/List_of_necromancer_traits and there are some pretty sweet traits that got dumped…

which ones? it looks exactly the same as what we have