Guild Wars 2

I have to admit I’ve had a rather complete change of heart about mesmers. Once you discover the weak points of the builds they drop like anyone else. Just takes some time and research to understand the fight.

The only thing I might label as OP are their elites. Moa is just absurd.

auhfel.4129:

I believe Elementalists can easily surpass thieve’s in Mobility.. if they set it up right. Ride the Lightning is a ridiculous one itself, and they have more than a few speed boosts and godly condition removal.

That is if RTL didn’t bug out 99% of the time and leave them floating like a piñata…

“just spammed crossfire”

Meanwhile Elem’s are running through 20 skills to try to kill something, and Necros are still hitting all their buttons trying to find something that makes an impact outside of Corrupt boon and Epidemic…

Having an issue with downed abilities and Player Pets in PvP. Downed ability #2 effects closest NPC rather than targeted player.

NPCs are actually messing with a lot of Elem abilities as well as just targeting across the board for all classes.

Issues I’ve had with pets in PvP:

- all of them mess up targeting on my Elems skills. RTL bugs out and takes me to closest pet rather than targeted player for instance. As well, Downed abilities target closest NPC even though you have another player targeted. This goes for any NPC in PvP. It’s gotten to the point where I switched my Elite to the Elemental summon just to mess with peoples game play since I assume it can’t just be me having issues with it. Popping it usually means I win the fight for some reason even though I’m just running around trying not to die typically. Just let the NPC do the work!

- pets doing more dmg than players. too many Rangers content to sit behind their pet (which are markedly tougher than any other pets) and spamming crossfire – literally only hitting the one skill, while the pet does all the meaningful dmg. Crossfire will hit for 500ish and pet will hit for 2k – 4k. I check my combat log regularly against Rangers to see if they do anything different. They don’t. They may switch weapons, but the pet is still doing all the dog. Why aren’t they paper thin like Mesmer illusions if they’re going to be doing so much dmg?

The whole pet system just doesn’t seem well thought out.

vaironx.9215:

First of all, I’m sorry if this is not the place to report this.
Yesterday we were on the second stage of a tournament and when we started the warzone, the other team was already capturing the 2 bases of the map in the first second of the match. They arrived to middle base too soon, in just a second, and to our base even before our holder. They are probably using an exploit to teleport or something.
Hope you guys do something about these people, Because they are having free Glory winning unfairly tournaments with exploits/cheats.

You can see the complet exploit on this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pVe-AFNbF5o

You only need to watch the first second and look up on the panel that shows the base controls. They are getting the control of middle base in the first second of the match.

The names of the Exploiters are:

Garciaa, Vizualqt, Bonnobo, Sylpheii, Terha Na.

Named and Shamed!!!!

well done /golf clap

BishopX.6453:

AmoreDeus.3076:

But when a guardian can 3v1 with 14k health and retaliation and never fall below half health while killing the 3 fighting him somethings wrong.

and if you didnt spam attacks on the guy with retalliation up…. how many people would he have killed?
ZERO

here are the classes in FLAVOR OF THE MONTH rankings

1) SHORTBOW CROSSFIRE SPAMMING RANGERS
2) Thief with Daggers (ZOMG WHY 4 DID dey nurf meh hartS3K0rZ!!!?
3) 2hand sword/staff mezmers
4)2h warriors

i cant count guardians as a problem since all they do is live, deal no damage unless you attack them and then die.

only.. you CAN kill a guardian 1v1 eventually it just takes a while, they cant run from you. while you can NEVER kill a mesmer or thief unless they are being over aggressive or greedy… yet they also have enough offense to kill any class 1v1 and sometimes 2v1.

Q: do you ever play tournaments? how can you claim/reclaim a point from someone you can’t hit? And how do you win when you can’t claim/hold points?

I ran up against a group comprised of all Guardians in tournament play over the weekend. All of which specced for retaliation and none of which could be moved from a node. When I asked about it before the match all they said was “In B4 Nerf”…

been having an issue with RTL and pets. When attempting to RTL to target, if any pet is in between target and myself then RTL will take me to pet instead of target.

Rika.7249:

Xhieron.2168:

Playing to Win

I’m just going to leave this here.

…

The link you provided was the best read I have ever had.
Thank you.

the literary world just gave a collective sigh

just an observation, and not that I’m calling Mesmers OP (I can’t say one way or another just yet), but how many other classes require such a long list of tips and tricks just to be able to counter them?

Mesmer will be the first class I will play solely to figure out how to counter them. Every other class seems fairly obvious after an encounter or two.

I thought he was saying that the “2 button Heroes” needed to have more complexity added to remove the 2 Button “I win” spam. As in, “make all professions as complex and difficult to master as the Elementalists”.

Which I would agree with

*nvm he beat me to it

@ Intrigued – I disagree completley. I found the Ele to be far more effective than my Engi or Necro, and far more versatile than my Thief.

@ Silver – of course there were some idiots. it was sPvP. A few goods, LOTS of bads. I’m no “Elite” myself, either. I am competitive though and getting better.

Also, to be clear, I didn’t make the post to call out the nay-sayers. Just wanted to throw out my 2 cents to any one that was on the fence about trying the class after reading these forums.

Rolled an Ele 3 days ago and kept him in PvE till I got used to the skills and attunement swapping because I was super reluctant to take him to PvP after reading all the horror stories on these forums. I hate PvE though and last night I got bored enough to throw caution to the wind and give PvP a go. So what happened?

I did NOT get one shotted
I did LOTS of dmg
I did LOTS of healing
I escaped LOTS of bad situations
I actually put up a fight against Mesmers
I actually WON fights against Mesmers

There are definitely some buggy skills and whatnot, but I would expect those to be fixed soon enough. They are definitely squishy as well, but that’s to be expected of a light armored magic caster I think. Could probably use a slight buff on dmg or slight increase in base armor/vitality but not much. Scepter/Dagger is incredibly strong!

All in all, a fun class that seems almost built for PvP. If you’re on the fence about trying the class out I’d say it’s worth it.

My .02, anyways.

Feel free to commence flaming.

Easiest time I had killing any class was a Guardian with my Necro. Ironically enough that was pretty much the only class I was good at killing with my Necro. I’d just wait for them to load up on boons and then pop Corrupt Boon and watch them melt miserably. Had to find some giggles somewhere…

Malakree.5912:

Wolfe.3097:

honestly the ONLY time ive had trouble targeting a player is when im trying to hit a smart mesmer, thieves guild is easy to tell the difference, pets are easy, rock dogs easy, etc.

If you use the call target function properly and don’t have some kittentard calling an ele say then you shouldn’t have any problems with targeting the mesmer. Only problem you will have is after decoy and that’s a lot simpler than with a thief who is using his stealth’s properly.

maybe it’s just me but when I did this the moment the mesmer made his first clone and slipped into stealth, when he came back came back the Target symbol was gone. Are they supposed to be able to remove the Call Target?

Malakree.5912:

EDIT:

Why are NPCs doing anything more than fluff/supplemental dmg in the first place?
It’s PvP. Not PvP+AI, right? They shouldn’t be doing anything more than what an engi turret does.

Difference being the engineer didn’t spend all 70 of his trait points for the sole purpose of buffing those turrets. That mesmer did.

wtb engi traits that makes turrets sprout legs, chase their target, and increase their dmg by ~300%

also, having skills/traits is not explanation to the intended design. The question remains: Why is there so much AI involved in PvP?

don’t nerf thief. just buff Ele and Necro

someone beat you to it.

funny thing is I found this yesterday when I was looking for PvP Ele vids and thought to post it then but opted not to since this forum is full of Ele bashing atm.

still funny though

The millions of clones/pets/illusions running around everywhere has gotten old real fast. 8v8s end up looking like 24 v 24, there’s so many NPCs running around it makes targeting a real player cumbersome at best. And then to top it off you get hit with 3/4/5k burst from one of them and now you’re not concetrating solely on the foe but on not getting hit by that stupid NPC again, and try to figure out where the kitten is that it belongs to…

Why are NPCs doing anything more than fluff/supplemental dmg in the first place?
It’s PvP. Not PvP+AI, right? They shouldn’t be doing anything more than what an engi turret does.

wow. there’s no pleasing this crowd.

thanks for the info Kyros. Just rolled an ele yesterday and was looking for a starting point for a PvP build.

Cheers

Maybe I’m not being clear.

I just think engi’s should be able to weapon swap and the kits should be an option.

No trade offs. No losing the tool belt skills. Just allow us to pick one kit as an alternate weapon and if we want to slot more kits on our utilities then so be it. Every other class can do this and none of them have to sacrifice a utility slot to do so.

@ coglin – you’re right about the cd’s – I had to check once I got home – but the issue remains the same. 4 abilities with 20-60 sec cd’s is not comparable to 5 abilities with 0-20 sec cd’s. Even being as useful as they are they don’t fulfill the functionality that other classes enjoy by being able to weapon swap without giving up important utility slots.

ummm you don’t have a stun break in there. you’re going to get owned by warriors, guardians, thieves, mesmers, rangers…

coglin.1496:

Nah, I really like the way they work not. They work very well with the F key tool belt skills, they do not take up inventory space, and I think once they actually get the bugs with sigils and things of that nature, everyone will stop complaining about them.

The F key tool belt skills are fine but they are all long CD (30 – 90 sec) which makes them very situational at best. That can’t be compared to having a 2nd fresh set of 5 weapon abilities with short CDs.

My problem is, as an engineer my weapons have a one dimensional play style, and they don’t include super impressive burst. The dmg is decent, but not so fast that I can rely on only having to use a few skills regularly. Instead I kite around, using CC, elixirs, and what not to keep my foes(s) at distance. In which lies the problem. at multiple points in the fight I have everything on cool down and my opponent isn’t dead yet and all I’m doing is spamming autoattack at him. Meanwhile he can swap to a ranged weapon or melee weapon, whichever suits him better because I’ve got nothing to throw at him but a weak AA until my stuff comes off cool down.

It’s simply not an issue that other classes have and I don’t why it should be one for Engineers.

To be clear, I don’t want the Tool belt skills taken away. I just want to be able to swap to a single kit as a 2nd weapon choice when I have no other skills to use or the situation demands another play-style of me.

sort of. not really.

I just don’t see the tool belt abilities as an even trade off to not having another weapon to swap to once all your main weapon abilities are on cool down – which can happen a lot when you can’t burst people down with 2 or 3 abilities like some other classes (which can swap weapons).

Tool Belt abilities = 4 abilities; long cool down, situational
2nd Weapon Set = 5 abilities; short/no cool down; maintain all utility slots
Kit abilities = 5 abilities; short/no cool down; lose one utility slot

In addition to the reasons stated in my OP, seems like a bit of a glass ceiling inhibiting the engi from performing the way the rest of the classes do.

wow. glad to see I’m not the only one who felt this way. rolled necro first and found your entire list to be true. then rerolled as engi and life is good again.

hope necros get some love cuz I do like the class

Why not just make kits a 2nd weapon selection? I understand the toolbelt is supposed to subsidize this to a degree but getting 4 abilities with very long CDs instead of 5 abilities with much shorter CDs hardly seems like a fair trade off. Given that pistols/rifle are so one dimensional for play styles and every other characters have the ability to spec for the versatility of short range/long range without giving up a powerful utility slot, I can’t help but feel this is a big strike against Engi’s.

just a thought.

actually the water field is created by the toobelt skill, which is pbaoe, before turret is dropped. either way though engi has multiple combo finishing options to follow it up with in virtually every spec.

it doesn’t hinder mobility in the least IMO either. turret can be cast on the move, all 3 heal skills from turret are large aoe, and aoe knock backs from turret are priceless for kiters.

edited: nevermind. Potato’s got it covered. so yeah, what he said…

edit 2: just want to add that heal turret also doesn’t remove all your abilities and pigeon hole you into a “support only” role.

I agree that the skill requirement for each class should ideally be the same and the popularity of some classes/skills in PvP is evidence enough that this isn’t the case. However, most of that stuff is very easily anticipated and avoided.

Straight up bailing for a more ezmode class won’t get much sympathy from me though. just an L2P

Bloodtau.4672:

Tigger.8035:

warrior? You mean thief, right?

Nope, deffo warrior. killing a player in 3 moves? Sounds ok to me.

and that’s what this is really about, right? just having the easy win instead of learning to play

lol

that trait is one of the few reasons to put any points in that tree.

turrets never last long anyways. might as well get some useful CC out of them while you can.

2 things:

1. condition builds are lack luster, specially in PvP
2. you need to take another look at your utilities (net turret is a must IMO for dual pistols and heal turret > elixir H, just for starters)

Other than that it’s hard to say since mesmers come in many varieties. Which one is giving you trouble?

Also, you may have figured this out already but, don’t forget to Call Target (ctrl + T) on the actual Mesmer so you can easily pick them out from the clones.

I don’t want a pet for my engi. I’m happy blowing up turrets and knocking people all over the place.

What I wouldn’t mind having though is a utility skill that removes pet aggro from me so they’ll leave me a lone while I finish off their master. Think of it like a pocket full of dog treats, or throwing a steak to a guard dog :P

I get the sense that you still haven’t figured out what kind of build you want to go with.

For PvP i use dual pistols and build around speed/mobility and immobilizing/crippling foes – e.g. I move fast, they move slow. I also don’t use turrets for anything other than a one off use with the intention of exploding them shortly after for the traited knock back. Also always keep a stun break available in PvP since Stun + Burst classes have an “easy win” build for those who aren’t prepared. I’ve been finding a lot of success in sPvP with this kind of play style.

Not saying you have to play this way or with this kind of build but with Engi’s there are so many different options/builds that it’s easy to get lost in being a jack of all trades rather than focusing on doing one or two things really well.

obvious troll is obvious?