Hey I already posted that vid!
Actually I think when people ask for buffs to defensive gear / healing gear, is because
1) They have no idea how the game works and forget that boons/ healing /blinds /aegis don’t depend on gear at all (ok healing is a tiny bit)
2) Want to keep that kind of gear as survivable as it is now (god mode) but also kill mobs / finish dungeons as fast as zerkers.
When I’m really bored I retrait to something more defensive like 0/0/2/6/6 ele and go fractals with the guild. The amount of defense this one spec gives to an entire party is mind-boggling. Mossman at scale 40 hits for 2k instead of 12k because of protection (elemental shielding+powerful aura+elemental attunement), weakness (glyph of elemental power+lightning touch+skale venom) and frost aura. That actually makes 2k heals you get from evasive arcana and swapping to water more than viable. But according to our community, it’s not enough.
You know you can get 1.1k heals from autoattack in water with staff as an ele? That’s extremely high number and should not be buffed.
Reduce boss monster HP.
Increase boss monster DMG and Attack rate.
Increase Healing Power and CC.
Update boss monster AI.Monsters hit harder and more often – toughness and heals more viable.
Example – full Zerk, 2 hits, you’re dead, 10 hits to kill monster.
Full PTV, 10 hits you’re dead, 20 hits to kill monster.Just an idea. Not going to happen must keep it simple and casual.
You mean buff something that allows you to solo legendary bosses while sipping a c’ocktail?
Not strong enough, huh?
Can you tank Lupi and win with 5 Cleric Guardians?
Honestly you can get pretty ridiculous passive defense if your groups specs for it. Perfectly viable for anything. Problem is that it will be slow but I have yet to see any reasonable ideas to fix that.
Buff retal in pve?
Troll is the hardest.
My berserker’s ele with support traits is a great supporter even without healing power which I might add increases your healing, not support.
And you’re wanting them to dodge? Fact is, you can kill all the bosses in AC wearing berserkers gear and not pressing anything but autoattack, without dropping below 100% energy. Kholer should be required as he seems to be the only remotely challenging boss, though I’m sure eventually someone would find an exploit and claim it’s legit then everyone would just autoattack stacking next to a certain pillar, or down a couple steps, or on top of a certain rock.
kitten running through the trash is more of a PUG killer than the actual bosses. You actually have to have stability or keep up with your group while moving.
You have to show me those pro moves.
I’ll name a few. Spider queen(her attacks hit super hard but stacking so tight makes her attacks hit into the wall so they miss you), most of the mob pulls in AC work like this, and obviously the last boss the howling king. You can stack him on p1 and p3, even though its harder on p1 if you are not all zerker. SE, the golem bosses halfway through. Frost from Caudecus manor(sort of). Hes not completely in the corner but you are able to get away with sitting high up in this little corner so that you take no damage and are able to range him. TA knight but someone already mentioned this. These are the ones off the top of my head.
Obviously one thing that would kill stacking is putting mechanics into a boss like I mentioned before. When I look at more of the recent content Anet’s put out (TA path one, some fractals), you start to see more mechanics within the bosses in some places at least, and this seems to counter the ability to get away with stacking. As far as I know you can’t stack any of the bosses in TA aether.
Great examples, thank you.
Might be wrong on this, but isn’t PvE lacking in challenging content, first and foremost?
It does lack the challenge but your ideas are an antithesis of challenge.
You can make it work till your first death in tpvp.
Every boss move around if you move around. It’s rather obvious.
Ah, okay. That settles it.
People have kind of missed the point of the post and started thinknig its about builds and what not when it was really about “The same stacking strategies or mob skipping is the majority of paths. Pretty much the average dungeon nowadays is pulling the last boss into the middle of the wall so he doesnt hit you and then pressing 1 while you afk.”
Which bosses behave like that?
Its about a 10th of a second. Was about .09 Difference. or 9 hundredths of a second.
If you want to try a different test compare DWA and sigil of force.
do 10/30/0/0/30
with duel wielding.
deep strike, deep cuts, DWA
signet mastery,axe mastery,heightened focousUse sigil of agony and sigil of accuracy on the DWA setup
Non DWA setup
do 10/30/0/0/30
deul wielding
deep strike, deep cuts, Furious
signet mastery,axe mastery,heightened focous
Use sigil of agony and sigil of force on the second setupReason why we are using deep cuts and agony is when we proc bleeding on crit we want to make sure we maintain that or you will get wrong results because of 10% damage to bleeding foes.
Also you have to make sure that in both tests the very 1st hit procs bleeding and that those bleeding stacks stay on the target for the entire duration of both tests.
I am fairly certain that you will see that its either a 5% DPS increase or less in fact.
Your reasoning for using different sigils is?
There used to be a way to cancel animation with Mesmer, but I don’t think it’s available anymore.
I remember in GW1 I pretty much mastered quarterknocking, it made pvp require much more skill. It was easy to tell the bad players from the good ones. That system doesn’t seem to have carried over into GW2 unfortunately. It’s one of the reasons I think GW2 is a good PvE game, but a bad PvP game. It doesn’t properly reward skilled play versus bad play. I remember when it first came out I would go through rotations on ele, and I became frustrated because for all of the perfect executions there were other professions that could preform equally just by spamming a single skill.
I remember a lot of bads qstepping just because it looked cool.
No wonder you have wrong results.
You dont have a problem with zerker but you like zerking. I would imagine you probably run comparable loadouts in other games, because that is your style of play. I would also imagine that in the other games that you’ve played, there were acceptable builds that didnt focus on power/crit/crit dmg / equivalent stats and direct dmg. Personally, id like to see some acceptable condition builds on par with zerker builds. But for the sake of argument, let’s say dungeon system was design in such a way that made ‘facetanking’ the undisputed most efficient way to run a dungeon, and the LFG tool was littered with “Facetankers only.” You would either be forced to:
A) play a type of build you didnt enjoy, or B ) make substantially less profit from running slower, being kicked from runs, or not being able to meet the requirements of a group
Seems like you have absolutely no idea how this game works and any attempts to convience you is wasting our breath.
Thats an interesting question that you asked there. Let me try to respond to it with the best of my ability. I’m not even fully sure that the average human can subjectively perceive many more frames than that in all honesty.
If there’s no difference between 30fps and 60fps, why do we even have 120Hz monitors? https://boallen.com/fps-compare.html
I did, but I don’t think you paid attention to where I put the words “if”. That’s to say that I do not know the absolute intention of the OP, but I’m assuming he confirmed my theory when he replied Yes afterwords. I could be wrong, and he could have meant that for someone else. I have no way of knowing. However I think anyone will admit that if his intent was to show that the 10% wasn’t as accurate as it appears, that he is correct. However that has, or at least should have, been known already by anyone caring to know.
Just leaving that there as a system that I wish gw2 had more of. The last time I used anything like this was with the mesmer. Haven’t tried with warrior, and I’m not even sure if it would work.
edit
The above link is about stutter stepping in LoL. It’s pretty essential, in my opinion, to be good with it if you want to get past maybe high gold. It’s a skill that’s relatively easy to learn, and enhances your damage significantly. Maybe there is a system like this in GW2, I’m really not sure.
No one here is saying that DWA is 10% but he is claiming that it’s essentially useless.
There is not stutter stepping in gw2 because of one simple reason – you can already move while attacking. In every game that technique was possible (including gw1 where it was called qstepping) your character couldn’t move and attack at the same time.
It was a mental leap. They fixed the old behaviour but those runes work when you have a minipet and getting one is trivial. Thus, it works always in pve since you cannot use minipets in pvp.
Oooo so vague and mysterious!. Apparently it’s more with a mistfire wolf since I said apparently I’m stating this as fact obviously.
Are you always responding like that? No, I was not joking, just stating that 6th bonus works always in pve.
In some cases it’s hard to kill a bunker 1v2 and you want it buffed even more? People are tired of bunkers meta.
I haven’t tested it myself there was a thread on reddit one of DnT’s guides. Someone asked what is a option for Mesmer and Nike said Rune of Ranger is good for Ranger’s and Mesmers. I asked him if the 6/6 worked for Mesmer’s he said seems it does. Not sure if it is fixed or a bug but this was a few days after the patch.
Runes of the ranger gives you +7% dmg increase while having a minipet.
I think the problem both groups are having in this thread is the lack of understanding on what an aftercast is, and what affects it. Certain things do not affect an after cast, while certain things do.
I don’t think you understand it either.
That fgs stack :OOOOOOOOOOOO
How’s that relevant? You generalise two guilds and I’m expressing my own opinion. Can you see the difference?
Moreover, I’m most likely not alone in the statement that I wish some things were gutted.
I agree with the thread name. Partially, because the average skill level was already low before fgs mania.
You play fair against AI?
Ofc I won’t solo AC spider in the corner without the full party because it’s the DPS that makes it possible… and that’s the whole problem. The FGS…
Anyway, I did it once with FGS and I decided to never use it again until they fix it. It’s just too stupid that some skills can be exploited this way. Same as reflects…
That tells me you are not really aware how it works.
Which game has everything optimal?
People complain about healing power being useless so if it should be changed, mobs that grant regen or heal should be buffed substantially. Maybe then poison would be considered useful.
Have only 9-man recorded but the difference was miniscule.
We killed him with 7 people relatively easy.
You weren’t the only one claiming anchor is kitten.
He went down slower than ele/ranger duo without using a wall. Those pugs are really something.
I wonder if ele will be so popular when they fix fgs.
One more thing. One year ago we had this strange meta for over an half a year. An anchor guardian was usually utilized even by the top pve guilds. Somehow, a notion of “one bunker drags zerkers down” wasn’t popular, heck, it was considered as a best option. So what changed?
It would be OP if one guy could carry the whole group like that via a HP build. It is hardly any more OP than the all zerker stack and spike groups. The problem is that you either have to go one extreme or the other, as mixing the two goes down the drain fast.
Extreme or not, they were deliberately tanking every hit in melee. That means the bosses were hitting more than 1 target because of cleaving. Usually when people play defensively they kite around and disperse. On top of that, statistically, even if people were dodging at random moments they would avoid some portion of damage.
Only “evidence” i have seen of that is some videos of glitched bosses, in particular one that had to rely on the clearly OP warrior healing signet even after the glitch.
The thing is, currently you don’t need to do that, since you can avoid most of the attacks. Though I imagine that pure zerker groups would utilize weakness and protection more. Heck, even cleanses, since many faster-attacking mobs will have condis. Of course, there would also be more use for heal to remove damage, and more trait/utility allocation to damage if you have some defensive stats. It would almost be as if things were balanced…
Again, you can avoid most of the attacks in dungeons. Try that in fractals, there’s a reason why people use weakness consumable and permanent protection from a hammer guardian there. Answer: because you cannot avoid most of the attacks.
Wouldn’t it make sense to then simply give more power, not damage, to control setups.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Unshakable
That seems, at least to me, to be why berserker is simply the best setup.
Because control skills are tied to your stats. Everytime I use deep freeze on the boss to stun him for 5 seconds, I could have stunned him for 10 seconds if only I had different armour.
Again, I don’t even know where to begin here. First, giving enemies more rapid attacks will make things harder on defensive sets. It will make things harder on everyone. Passive defenses just happen to hit not as hard with such a change IF and only IF they learn to dodge/block. If they don’t, the defensive gear won’t have enough HP to survive the big hits they used to facetank from bosses.
Harder because now you have to get more passive defense? Currently, you can facetank hardest hitting bosses in the game with a dodge key disabled, those “one shots everywhere” myth is getting annoying as kitten. They cant just add more rapid attacks, they have to move part of the offense from bigger hits to rapid autoattacks (because average folks will whine how game became hard) which, again, will achieve nothing whatsoever, except obligatory passive defense or sustain. Everyone loves passive defense, pvp-ers are delighted everytime meta is heavy bunkerish. People didn’t buy this game to tank, if you did, well, I don’t know what to tell you.
Second, performance in those sets is limited only to those who can’t dodge/block yet. Once someone knows how to use active defenses, it becomes easier to run high damage gear than tanky gear. Third, the whole “there should be no passive defenses” is a meaningless notion pulled out of thin air, is completely wrong since passive defenses don’t mean passive play, and completely ignores the whole point of stat selection as a whole: preferences in play.
I don’t even know how to respond to so much misinformation here. Passive defense by definition means passive play. Anet should just completely abandon the whole idea of stats, otherwise we will continue to have roleplayers, who cannot grasp simple concepts of active gameplay, constantly whining how it’s not fair that more risky gameplay is more rewarding.
An advice for you: drop your necro and make an elementalist or a thief. Maybe it would change your perspective.
(edited by haviz.1340)
This is so far off the ball I don’t even know where to begin. First, you are omitting things about fractals: bosses don’t have higher attack rates in high levels, so everyone kites the bosses around shamelessly while dodging their slowly paced big telegraphs. For the regular enemies, they only take a two minutes… “if you’re by yourself or duoing”https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kBEU72AeQzg maybe. Otherwise, berserker gear does exactly what I say it does: kills enemies before they can stack up too much damage. I guess you are assuming that people mean zerker accomplishes this by facetanking enemies with raw DPS. No, they kill quicker because the few attacks an enemy makes, the few active defenses it takes to fend them off.
You just linked a video which start shows what I’ve been saying. Two people abusing known fact that you don’t trigger fast melee attacks of archdiviner (and other bosses I had in mind) if you stay at >130 range (which you can even with 130 range weapons). the ele has 300 range and the warrior starts meleeing only when the boss channels his attacks and doesn’t retaliate. Otherwise, warrior ranges with a longbow. I’m pretty sure he’s proud of that. Mobs are being killed easily because certain classes can permanently blind them. I’d like to see how you kill dredges without kittenload of defense received most commonly from a guardian.
Fractal bosses attack faster and hurts more, thus they are more risky than faceroll dungeons bosses and the whole idea of kill before being killed is wrong and anyone claiming otherwise is either not experienced enough or simply ignorant. Just ask anyone from the top pve guilds why might stacking as an ele is harder. Answer: because bosses attack too fast and it’s harder to complete a single autattack chain to get the blast from LH without interrupting yourself by constant dodging.
Second, you’re being hypocritical about ignoring content by cherry picking the only portion of the game that suits your argument, and then completely ignoring anything inconvenient to that argument.. When you have a bunch of players hiding behind a wall of reflection, do you honestly think that the time limit on that wall doesn’t make faster kills a better option?
There are two instances where people complain about zerker dominance, dungeons and fractals. You chose to ignore 50% of that content and call my hypocritical? Also, I didn’t know you can reflect melee autoattacks (those are the hardest part of fractal bosses).
Third, this argument doesn’t even make sense. Are you saying high level fractals means that no one anywhere else should have more rapid attacks? How does one jump to that conclusion?
I’m saying that rapid attacks will not change anything you want to achieve by proposing this nonsense.
I completed fotm 80 with no guardians or mesmers to hide behind and certain encounters had a lot of pressure on your team. The fights took more than 5 minutes. Now anet adds more rapid attacks and I am forced to wear defensive gear and trait defensively in order to survive because those passive things are the only thing that counters steady pressure. I can still complete the content but it’s easier for me because I depend on something that’s passive and works in the background without my contribution and now I have no choice in build diversity because I’ve been forced to run specific builds. Way to go, perhaps I should start creating threads how bunkers are OP and brainless to play?
I’m pretty sure you can’t, unless they have changed it recently. Time ago I used to do fractals and I clearly remember I did even levels fractals only once a day because otherwise I had no chest at all, while doing odd level fractals just to level up.
They always have been tier bound, those threads have people confirming that.
Which is anyway still higher than the average PvP profit, which is my point,
Even if you do only fractals you get higher gold income compared to doing PvP for reward tracks, as one PvP match takes 10 mins average while one fractal takes one hour.As I pointed out, if you win all matches in tPvP, you get 5 rewards, which will be one Tome of Knowledge, one trasmutation charge, 6 mob chests and 2 champion bags.
Doing a fractal you open at least 4 final chests and kill way more mobs than the equivalent of 6 mob chests.
Not going to defend that pvp reward don’t suck but one transmutation charge is worth about 3g if you want to buy them with your gold.
One last thing, a friend told me he got zojja’s chest piece from krytan region track and it’s worth more than 50g. Though rng.
(edited by haviz.1340)
How many players got the legendary playing the TP? Seriously…
I know it’s a weak argument, I just “translated” it. However, I know few people who got few of their legendaries just by playing TP.
As far I know, you can get one fractal chest per day regardless of the tier.
Nah, you can do different tiers for more daily chests.
I don’t get it.
Also tPvP competitive players go in hotjoin to test builds and such.
I don’t think it is an huge generalization when I say that fractal players don’t do fractal 4 times a day without getting rewards but instead go do other PvE contents.
There are people who do just fractals and you group them up with people who spend few hours daily by farming either dungeons or running in trains farming champions. All of those types are pve players but they have completely different profits.
Yes, pvp rewards suck because now you cannot even get those shiny skins like mist weapons and anet probably expects pvp players to buy them thanks to the gold they earn in pvp.
Nope. Even if you get gold income comparable to a PvE player, you can’t get a legendary as you need 100% map completation.
He meant that you can play TP which is hardly a pve and buy a legendary.
No fractal player does fractal more than once a day as it gives no daily chest. I bet anyone who does his daily fractal will do his daily dungeon run after it.
You can get more than 1 daily by doing different tiers (e.g. scales 38 and 30)
Fractal player is a PvE player.
Read above.
I wouldn’t generalise people like that because there would be no distinction from hotjoin casual player and tpvp competitive player.
I was testing mesmer dps few months ago. My spreadsheet data and observed data were less than 1% off. Good calculations WILL accurately reflect in game performance. Problem is I had to figure out my own skill coefficients and skill attack rates so the effort to get it accurate was quite high.
In vacuum. Most people here care about group performance.
Why would you need a stat that has no use whatsoever?
Math models are okay as long as they describe dps potential accurately enough. Unfortunately, this game is slightly more tricky to model than other typical mmos. Seeing completely different conclusions about same comparisons doesn’t inspire great confidence. Having said that, I’d rather trust practical test than theoretical, especially when theoretical ones are often made in vacuum.
I’m surprised so many people think that enemies having more sustained damage would make zerker gear obsolete. That wouldn’t be the case at all. GC gear would still be viable, because it will still kill enemies before they can generate a large amount of damage. The difference would be that now, zerkers will actually be risky to play, and more defensive gear would have to use active defenses to stay alive as well.
Once again you chose to ignore the entire type of the content and form an opinion based on that. The bolded part only emphasis that. Unless you think that >2 minutes long fights in high scales fractals are not long enough to show that glass cannons are risky to play and despite popular belief they don’t kill before being killed in that kind of the content.
I should also add that, more durable sets would have longer in-combat time, which would make them more damaging in the long run.
The goal isn’t to “require” anything. The goal is to make PVE a bit harder in such a way that the strengths of passive defenses will finally show in PVE.
Why in the living kitten would you ever make that more defensive set has higher damage potential when it is already easier to perform while wearing those sets? Another thing, passive defenses should never be encouraged in an action game because they don’t require any effort whatsoever by the definition.
To summarise, I’m not disagreeing with the first sentence but I believe your argumentation for it is uninformed at best.
(edited by haviz.1340)