Guild Wars 2

rootnode.9546:

Thing is: Berzerker Thieves finally pay up a little in terms of survivability. And please don’t cry about the health pool. You have a medium health pool, but still medium armor.
I think the patch was not only warranted, but also necessary!
And caltrops from 15s down to 10s? Why on earth would you need them on the ground for more than 10s?

you mean low health pool

just a little research.

does this really need another thread.

i dont notice a DMG drop in backstab either.

Gamed with the new changes last night.. using the same traits… (minus hidden killer, changed that to executioner).. in general PvE it only took 30 minutes to get used to the new rotation… Yes it is a little clunky and things dont fit quite perfectly as before.. but it is not that bad..

Thereotical top DPS took a hit.. (when you can stand there and DPS and not move.. for … ever) but i cant remember where that actually took place during any of the world bosses i was doing last night or the CoF run.. It was mostly CnD/Mug burst everything and when receiving splash dmg from boss dodge out and Shortbow it until i heal up.. and run back in with my daggers.

So my personal verdict is .. it is not that bad.. just clunky.

TheGuy.3568:

iNaddict.8021:

I will agree with the OP’s sentiment… listening to the thief cry about 1+ sec to revealed.. then reading the warrior patch notes.. really puts things into perspective..

the +1 second reveal is actually a hit to PvE and it is major so don’t take the whines as whines the concern is legit. Quickness nerf was cross class so thieves go hit with it too. That being said warrior has no bunker, condition removal is kittening abysmal, and the class is too predictable. Quickness nerf is a slap on the wrist not looking at the other stuff is spit in the face.

I never said it wasnt a hit.. but people in the thief forums are crying about it like it is the end of the world.. and concern or not.. if you compare it to what the warrior got… there is your perspective..

i main a thief..

I will agree with the OP’s sentiment… listening to the thief cry about 1+ sec to revealed.. then reading the warrior patch notes.. really puts things into perspective..

Yes in the grand scheme of things.. i really feel for the warriors.. 1 sec to revealed is not as bad as what they got… i re-iterate.. they need to have a Public Test Realm so people can test and give them feedback.

I have a main thief.. and i have no problems in PvE.. (aside from a few annoyances)..
But it is generally strong.. and if you still think so.. i dont think the thief class is for you..

Just to make yourself feel better, you should take a look at the patch notes for warriors.. they got kittening spanked.

TheGuy.3568:

I honestly rather have the one they planned. This is in PvE is just …. I play my warrior and ele more In PvE as it is. Thief is getting the shelf because its a little much. Not quitting the game but kitten something about eating a PvE nerf on my weakest PvE toon has got me kitten off.

I don’t know.. i wouldnt call thief Weak in PvE.. personally..

yes.. that trait is bugged for now.

Dasorine.1964:

iNaddict.8021:

Even in PVE… i never can just Stand and DPS in a boss fight (aside from World bosses)..

Splash dmg always require me to backtrack recoup and get back in.

Yeah its not nice to receive nerfs to your main (thief is my loved and fav class)..
But it is done.. Lets work with the current limitation.

I would/will/do, the only reason I complain really is because of the ridiculous manner these changes have been implemented, no acknowledgement of exactly what they wanted to fix, the main cheese/exploits still present and untouched that everyone thought where the targets, the knock on effects of blanket changes that nerf/cripple things that where in no ones sights due to there weak/already balanced nature in a way that makes it seem they just were not thought about.

They we’re pretty ridiculous weren’t they.. my only wish is that they setup a PBE realm to test changes and get the public to test.. so they get responses before making the changes.. but ah well..

i did get a good laugh at the patch notes when i read it …

“lol revealed +1 sec.. that was out of left field i thought”

thats was that.

Even in PVE… i never can just Stand and DPS in a boss fight (aside from World bosses)..

Splash dmg always require me to backtrack recoup and get back in.

Yeah its not nice to receive nerfs to your main (thief is my loved and fav class)..
But it is done.. Lets work with the current limitation.

Grimwolf.7163:

iNaddict.8021:

Grimwolf.7163:

I know myself and many others are incredibly frustrated by how the patch turned out, so I figured posting ideas for how you feel the patch SHOULD have looked for Thieves would be a slightly more constructive way to vent some frustration. I’ll start with my own;

Thief

• Mug: Changed to Cripple the target of your Steal for 5 seconds instead of damage.

I rather keep the dmg portion thanks.

I’m sure you would, but Mug is the real culprit behind the majority of Stealth, CnD and Backstab nerfs we’ve recieved.

No i dont think so.. the issue was people’s inability to deal with stealth (CnD chainer’s moreso) not mug.. extra dmg from mug was just icing on the cake…

to deal with it, they proposed a always revealed debuff coming out of stealth.. but instead went with extra second on revealed.. in the grand scheme of things i think both wont change a whole lot..

I am not a CnD spammer, i use stealth aggressively, i had the 3 second cooldown down to a pat.. i will just need to get used to 4.. and all the complaints saying that this will reduce their backstab dps by 33% obviously thinks this game is just stand and dps executing a near perfect rotation.. and receive no dmg from players or mobs where they had to backout and go on the defensive heal etc.

we also dont need cripple.. i have no problems catching up to people. at least change it to something of a worthy replacement..

Grimwolf.7163:

I know myself and many others are incredibly frustrated by how the patch turned out, so I figured posting ideas for how you feel the patch SHOULD have looked for Thieves would be a slightly more constructive way to vent some frustration. I’ll start with my own;

Thief

• Mug: Changed to Cripple the target of your Steal for 5 seconds instead of damage.

I rather keep the dmg portion thanks.

Ill learn to live with it. But I think It was unnecessary.
So I like to know why too

firebreathz.7692:

iNaddict.8021:

firebreathz.7692:

Sifu.6527:

I was in WvW last night and fought a ranger and two other thieves. It was too much for me to handle so I SF and retreated. I broke LOS from the ranger and thieves and was a good distance from them. Then out of no kittening where, this kittening wolve was on my kitten with the owner no where to be seen….wtf.

LOL

“Then out of no kittening where, this kittening wolve was on my kitten with the owner no where to be seen….wtf.”

a thief complaining about “Then out of no kittening where” and “the owner no where to be seen” is just too good to be true

yea so hows it feel to taste your own medicine?

Ignorance is bliss.. aaah

from the way you worded that it implies that you were stating that about yourself

stating a fact .. actually

Columba.9730:

Lofat.2406:

LOCO.1785:

Columba.9730:

LOCO.1785:

Columba.9730:

lol many attacks fail. obstruction blocks half my bow shots

That’s a L2P issue, not a class issue.

What else you got?

nope. it’s evidence that attacks do miss. thus, it refutes your argument.

It’s missing because you’re trying to range the thief when there’s an object between you. That’s what an obstruction is…

My god.

I always try to get behind a tree or something when facing another range if I’m going P/D spec. Obstruction is just that… an obstruction… do you honestly expect your arrows to go through trees and rocks? Geeze… I think your mentality has been nerfed…

nope. not a thing in sight. nice try. proves that not ever attack hits. mate.

Game Mechanics means attack never miss unless obstructed or dodged. (or if you are blinded)..

thats the mechanic, if you are seeing repeated misses in a certain area (like in AC burrows ) then it is most likely because of a bug.

firebreathz.7692:

Sifu.6527:

I was in WvW last night and fought a ranger and two other thieves. It was too much for me to handle so I SF and retreated. I broke LOS from the ranger and thieves and was a good distance from them. Then out of no kittening where, this kittening wolve was on my kitten with the owner no where to be seen….wtf.

LOL

“Then out of no kittening where, this kittening wolve was on my kitten with the owner no where to be seen….wtf.”

a thief complaining about “Then out of no kittening where” and “the owner no where to be seen” is just too good to be true

yea so hows it feel to taste your own medicine?

Ignorance is bliss.. aaah

Columba.9730:

graphics and population are better. thieves can afford a stealth nerf. they already have the highest dps and the best mobility.

I think the best mobility is arguable.. i would actually say DD eles have the best mobility

these proposed changes will make us OVERPOWDERED

Chipmunko.5870:

Hi

i just finished lvling my thief and have some quesitons

i wanted to make some build with good survability and perma access to stealth
however soon i realised that due to statbalancing its pretty hard to get it with normal power prec. crit dmg option
so cond. seem like way to go
are cond. builds viable in endgame PvE ? ( fotm 30+ )
and how they are doing in WvW ? ( soloing 1 v x style )

thx

Any builds with a dagger offhand has perma access to stealth. But the poster before me outlined 2 builds that might suit your tastes

Kyrion.2749:

Just replace your Berserker Gear with +% Magic Find Gear.

Aggro problems in dungeons solved.

i Lold, but im already in Valkyrie and MF gear.. i needs the vit..

Dual.8953:

iNaddict.8021:

LOCO.1785:

Columba.9730:

LOCO.1785:

Columba.9730:

lol many attacks fail. obstruction blocks half my bow shots

That’s a L2P issue, not a class issue.

What else you got?

nope. it’s evidence that attacks do miss. thus, it refutes your argument.

It’s missing because you’re trying to range the thief when there’s an object between you. That’s what an obstruction is…

My god.

err.. i would challenge this.. in AC trying to hit the burrows with shortbow auto attack is painful.. (with nothing between you and the burrow targetted)

err.. i would challenge this.. in AC trying to hit the burrows with shortbow auto attack is painful.. (with nothing between you and the burrow targetted)The word that pops up on my screen is indeed Obstructed.. I had a very hard time finding what that obstruction is.

Even so, that particular obstruction is an unintended bug, not dictated by an RNG system. When you miss in the other games Columba mentioned, it isn’t a bug, but rather an intentional result of the RNG system at work.
And when Columba’s shots at a thief are getting obstructed, it’s likely because he doesn’t account for the terrain around him, and the arrows collide with obstacles in the terrain.

Wow My edit made duplicates..

back to topic.. yeah ok that is a fair point.. GW attacks doesnt miss (unless obstructed or bugged, OR not in range.)

i propose, when a thief stealth.. everyone in the current map dies.. along with the thief him/herself.

LOCO.1785:

Columba.9730:

LOCO.1785:

Columba.9730:

lol many attacks fail. obstruction blocks half my bow shots

That’s a L2P issue, not a class issue.

What else you got?

nope. it’s evidence that attacks do miss. thus, it refutes your argument.

It’s missing because you’re trying to range the thief when there’s an object between you. That’s what an obstruction is…

My god.

err.. i would challenge this.. in AC trying to hit the burrows with shortbow auto attack is painful.. (with nothing between you and the burrow targetted)

err.. i would challenge this.. in AC trying to hit the burrows with shortbow auto attack is painful.. (with nothing between you and the burrow targetted)The word that pops up on my screen is indeed Obstructed.. I had a very hard time finding what that obstruction is.

well, after more testing.. i still think it was unnecessary change.. Though it isnt going to make me quit.. but makes more a more annoying experience at times.

Lighter.5631:

iNaddict.8021:

i feel the same way. i cant figure out the reasoning. there are other things that are much more broken than a thief’s PvE.. and it is not like we are PvE ezmode..

you want a class that is more broken in any and every other way? try warrior

i dont get your post? i wasnt asking for a more ezmode class?

Elementalist/Mesmer are your other strong in pvp options.

Silver.4798:

Fantastic. Because PvE thief was just sooooo easy as it is…

To step out of the kittenin’ and whining mode for a bit, since I AM running a condition build anyway and, lets be honest, thieves aren’t bad at stacking bleeds but rangers are a tier above us in that regard (in my opinion), I’m wondering if they made poisons more viable for condition damage for thieves. I hardly (if ever) use poisons so maybe it’s time to drop some of our stealth utilities and test the poisons?

yeah we are whining a bit,

but i dont really want to play a condition build either..

and if not the forums where?

LieutenantGoogle.7326:

with that logic shouldn’t ele staff fire and updraft roll be a targeted dodge as well rather than always backwards? Engineers rocketboots also?

diff skill.. and they are welcomed to be different.. i dont mind either way,
but we are discussing withdraw are we not?

Silver.4798:

Can someone clarify what they mean by resetting the aggro after stealth? My main use for shadow refuge is to remove conditions and esp rez allies in dungeons. The idea was that the mob goes to attack someone else while i revive (one of the few “utility” skills that a thief can bring to a group in dungeons, as we dont exactly have boons or heals to spread to teammates). Will that no longer be viable anymore? Will the mobs still attack us even though we are in stealth (which would SUCK), or will the just attack us the second we get out of stealth (which is workable I guess if we dodge roll and haul tail outta there)

it means your threat that you have generated stays on the mobs aggro table.. so.. when you destealth, if you are still the top mob will come after you..

Similarly, if you have a warrior tank who is top.. and you shadow refuge to rez them.. once the stealth is over and if the warrior is still top mob will come directly to you guys and probably spank you both..

now it is not so bad if your team mates pickup aggro in single boss fights.. but in an aoe situation.. one of the stragglers will probably re-aggro to you and kill you both.

Einlanzer.1627:

iNaddict.8021:

Einlanzer.1627:

This is terrible. Their total inability to actually detect problems and apply appropriate solutions instead of just tinkering with random traits and skills arbitrarily month after month is ruining my desire to play this game.

Stealth needed a buff in PvE, not a nerf. Pistols are still terrible because of an obviously too-slow animation on Vital Shot and an overly-situational Body Shot. BS glass cannon is still the most optimal build by a good margin. These are much bigger and more glaring problems than the cripple on Ankle Shots.

I am more concerned with their inability to prioritize, i dont know how the stealth PvE nerf was higher above than other issues plaguing this game.. .

That’s pretty much the exact same point I was making.

oh ok..

i really think downed skill 3 will be soo underwhelming now.. sighs.

Can the not dropping aggro after stealth change be reverted?

it is making playing pve thief a lot harder than it should be.

Einlanzer.1627:

This is terrible. Their total inability to actually detect problems and apply appropriate solutions instead of just tinkering with random traits and skills arbitrarily month after month is ruining my desire to play this game.

Stealth needed a buff in PvE, not a nerf. Pistols are still terrible because of an obviously too-slow animation on Vital Shot and an overly-situational Body Shot. BS glass cannon is still the most optimal build by a good margin. These are much bigger and more glaring problems than the cripple on Ankle Shots.

I am more concerned with their inability to prioritize, i dont know how the stealth PvE nerf was higher above than other issues plaguing this game.. .

Karizee.8076:

PTR’s don’t do anything. Just look at WoW’s recent fiasco. Expac on PTR for 6 months, it launches and a low level paladin solo’s the shiny new raid boss lol.

PTRs are all about reducing risk.. it is not eliminating risk altogether.

Pentalic.5409:

I went on some dungeon runs tonight to test the aggro changes and found that the change hasn’t affected aggro all that much. I deal a ton of damage and when I pulled aggro and stealthed, I found that the rest of my party generated enough to compensate me coming out of stealth to wail on the big baddy again. I stealth quite a bit during combat and have found that the boss only b-lines for you if you exit stealth an instant after entering (not very smart anyway).

Sometimes i stealth purely to backstab.. and dropping aggro is nice or else after i backstab i get spanked.. min maxing thing.. i dont fancy waiting for a few seconds before backstabbing just makes it really slow..

Anyway ill test some more in dungeons.. i could be overreacting. but from initial impressions.. thats what i got.. so i hope you are right.

Ruggan.4102:

masztipapa.7519:

Backstab thieves can kill almost anybody in a second, thats a serious issue with the class and the other thing that bothers me is the initiative system. Add some diminishing return (so noobies dont spam heartseeker for win -.-), like it only does a third of its original dmg after the first use for like 2 or 3 seconds.

If I had to guess… you dont really play a thief.

that is a really old post you quoted.

Doggie.3184:

iNaddict.8021:

yeah.. downed skill 3 is useless… well it is already useless so yeah..

Had it’s use of getting enemy off you by using it and then teleporting far away as possible immediatly after. Now it can’t save us at all. ;x

Good job Anet i guess.. /sarcasm

Withdraw should have a area targetted shadowstep mechanic…

that would be awesome.. and it would make me consider to use it.

yeah.. downed skill 3 is useless… well it is already useless so yeah..

Vecuu.2018:

They did it to help thieves level stealth-based builds.

Without the change, your target would begin to reset every time you stealthed.

I have been a stealth based build from 1-74 now.. once you stealth via CnD or whatever, there is a period of time before they reset. and as long as you dont waste time, there was no issues.

Dual.8953:

iNaddict.8021:

killimandros.5087:

A question; Is it only me, or does ranger pets now follow you even though you are stealthed? Been playing only an hour, but had a fight 2v2 with a ranger against a thief and a warrior, the ranger put his pet initially on guard on the thief, and it followed the thief even though he/she stealthed, using all tricks to get away. Hell it even leaped after the poor guy when he used a teleport stunning him at trasmissions end. Looked a bit like Benny Hill show. Anyone else has any imput? Never seen this before though

Stealth no longer resets aggro table.. so the pet will find you when you destealth.. this includes all pve mobs.. its a BS change.

It was to fix the bug that caused mobs to de-aggro thieves by accident. Can you imagine how annoying it is when a champion de-aggros and starts it’s out of combat heal when you’re trying to kill it?

I personally think the “champ will zone in and kill you through everyone in your group now, because you cant drop aggro” will be more annoying.. but, that is my opinion only.. only time will tell if other ppl feel the same way.

always carry dual pistols and a shortbow for ranged fights. and you should be fine.

killimandros.5087:

A question; Is it only me, or does ranger pets now follow you even though you are stealthed? Been playing only an hour, but had a fight 2v2 with a ranger against a thief and a warrior, the ranger put his pet initially on guard on the thief, and it followed the thief even though he/she stealthed, using all tricks to get away. Hell it even leaped after the poor guy when he used a teleport stunning him at trasmissions end. Looked a bit like Benny Hill show. Anyone else has any imput? Never seen this before though

Stealth no longer resets aggro table.. so the pet will find you when you destealth.. this includes all pve mobs.. its a BS change.

aNet, reverse your “stealth doesnt drop aggro” change in your last patch..

i feel the same way. i cant figure out the reasoning. there are other things that are much more broken than a thief’s PvE.. and it is not like we are PvE ezmode..

I dont like this particular change. we are already squishy enough as it is. When i tested, it makes fighting in groups that much more difficult and you cant escape.. when you reappear they will get back on you right away. pretty painful if you are dpsing a boss and you do the highest dps and the boss will spank you when you get out of stealth.

Also whats worse is that this makes AOEing that much more difficult as those stray mobs will come straight back to you..

What i dont get the most, is that it’s not like Thieves have it ezmode in PvE why this change that affects PvE 99% of the time?

At the very least aNet maybe should implement a new function for thieves that lets us drop aggro completely.. I will run a few more dungeons and see how much it annoys me..

Thank goodness its a F2P game i dont feel bad for leaving the game a while (if this really does annoy me that much)..