the fundamental flaw with thieves and why you can’t compare them to games like LoL is thief takes ZERO skill to put out massive damage. In games that are actually e-sports that balance around that, it takes high level skill to play the class at a high level (shocker) thus leaving casuals balanced since they can’t do the same thing the pros are doing. In GW2 it’s like push 3 buttons and insta-gib anyone that doesn’t have defensive CDs up. it’s dumb.
Playing thief takes more skill then playing LoL
Longbow and 1h Sword are good according to Jon
Nuff said
As you know, without traits traps are pretty much useless. Trapper’s Expertise is a must.
My issue is, why is this trait and Trap Potency in Skirmishing tree?
Conditions cannot critical, while traps are condition damage. Why are traits that buff condition damage utilities (traps) inside a tree that does not offer anything to condition damage?
I feel like this thread is a casual player that thinks he’s a pro player complaining about balance being made for casuals. The reason thieves were nerfed were BECAUSE the devs talk to the top teams. The best overall profession (imo) is guardian, and the top NA team had their guardian running a thief. What does that tell you? Thieves were just fixed so that they can’t effortlessly roll their face on a keyboard and kill everything from ranged with a melee build. Cloak and dagger is the only thing nerfed for the actual backstab spec, and something that makes you invisible on demand really shouldn’t be critting for 5-8k regularly. Top tier players were being instantly killed without being able to respond from time to time. That simply should not happen. They want to make this game a competitive battle between teams, not rock paper scissors on who gets the first hit.
(most of the statements presented factually are just my opinion from my experience)
Lol top players tell you thieves need surviblity buff they are a joke.
Its Areanet’s Fault for ruining all thieves build except D/D Might Stacking Backstab (they nerfed BALANCED Version) and D/D Death Blossom Thieves.
While I hate it. I have to play 30 30 0 0 10 on thief using Venom and Signet to stack might and one shot people. Its the only good build left due to nerfing all x/d (p/d and s/d) and no buffs to x/p
They nerfed every thief build except the gimick Balisk Venom Backstab burst.
Rangers are still a joke
Stealth wont save you in tPVP, it works only against low skilled players.
Yeah. They really shouldnt have put those anti stealth goggles up for purchase from qualifying points.
Its called AoE.
this patched forced thieves going either balisk venom burst or Death Blossom spam. nothing more
The thief class is one of the squishiest in the game and to top it off we have only 1 move that removes conditions and it only removes 3. It will now take longer to kill enemy….alot longer. Some are barely possible to kill (if at all * cough* guardian cough). The Thief Class needs to be more durable.
1. The thief is already able to be stupidly survivable by stealth, dodges and the lolShortbow. See Shadow Arts if the default perks aren’t enough.
2. The thief has one of the most powerful passive condition removals in the game- Shadow’s Embrace. Other classes have their passive condition removals at 10 seconds via signets. If thieves struggle with a multiple condition-stacking foe, that is actually good for the game as a counter to them exists (thinking Well necros that deny restealths).
I guess you never did tPVP
Stealth wont save you in tPVP, it works only against low skilled players.
They nerfed all balanced and tPVP thief builds with CnD nerf, forcing everyone to go lol D/D 1 shot every 45 seconds which is piss easy to counter and useless in tPVP
Lol people switch in mid tournament. Example is everyone using Warrior on Foefire due to Bladetrail bug
Ranger is best rDPS in game
its jsut normal sharing build.
just take reduce trap cooldown for ambush and use runes of orge for more pets
Rangers are still useless
Warriors keep getting buffed when they are OP
Thieves are forced to all roll D/D
Mesmers are screwed in PVE and WvW nowRangers weren’t ever useless; underpowered maybe, but the buffs are actually quite interesting, especially the ones to the greatsword. Counterattack has been substantially buffed, blocking ranged attacks for 3 seconds instead of getting cancelled immediately and doing no pushback. Maul is also kinda nice now. I’ve been testing out Power-builds with Sigil of Int for 100% Crits -> Maul now could work well with that. (gonna test this now)
Warriors aren’t OP at all and they can use the buffs.
A Major Part in rolling D/D before was Dancing Dagger, which was an insanely good teamfight-skill, which made the Thief with D/D good in almost every important aspect of sPvP (sustainability, teamfight-capabilities, burst-DPS, sustained-DPS, Mobility) at least they nerfed his Teamfight-potential and sustained DPS in Teamfights a bit. Now, ppl can actually play sth. else rather than D/D, because having both insane burst and a clearly OP teamfight-skill, was just too much to pass on.
Wait thieves can roll something rather then D/D?
P/P still suck
Shortbow Nerfed
P/D Nerfed
S/D Nerfed
Remind me why the most feared class in tPVP is warrior?
Even if Warrior goes glass cannon. He is tanky and puts a lot of damage out. With a proper team you dont even needy frenzy or bull’s charge.
There is a reason top teams are favouring warrior roamer
Rangers are still useless
Warriors keep getting buffed when they are OP
Thieves are forced to all roll D/D
Mesmers are screwed in PVE and WvW now
Patch Feedback?
Lets but the most OP Class in game, Warrior, while nerfing everything else.
Look at Ranger ‘buffs’ They are a joke. Just delete ranger class.
You screwed ele in tpvp
You screwed Mesmer in PVE and WvW yet in sPVP they run shatter builds
You forced all thieves forget any builds and just go D/D spamming HS or DB
Arenanet seem to promote more Heartseeker and Death Blossom Spam. Instead of buffing other weak weapon setup to give thieves different options, they nerf everything else and force thieves to go D/D
Cloak and Dagger nerf effected S/D and P/D. The main damage source of S/D was CnD. P/D is a condition build and CnD was the only high damage skill.
Venomous Aura may have buffed P/D a little but Venoms are is still weak.
Dancing Dagger used to be a skill that punishes bad positioning. While you may argue that damage was too high, now the skill is useless. Spamming Heartseeker to catch up to enemies then using Dancing Dagger for crippling. Heartseeker closes the gap faster and cost less initiative.
Tactical Strike Daze duration ruins S/D, which was a niche build to being useless.
Clusterbomb nerf means thieves wont even bother switching to shortbow mid combat to spam aoe.
This change just promotes everyone going D/D and just spam Heartseeker or Deathblossom with Backstab.
Why is P/P still not buffed? (I acknowledge that it was slightly buff but its not enough)
Why does auto attack still do more damage then Pistolwhip?
it boggles my mind why they dont release patch notes early.
people can start theory crafting if they know changes. now we have to log and discover new skills s
false alarm i guess
Are we playing same game?
Necros are needed in tPVP. Standard is Guardain, Ele, Necro and Mesmer are a must.
Necros are a must in tPVP due to boon and condtion control.
I play guardain and mesmer in tpvp. I laugh at thieves. Actuatly my team doesnt calculate thieves. Necros are more a pain then thieves in tpvp
While it is rare, there are still some exploiters and cheaters going around even in tPVP.
Its awesome seeing people “rubberbanding” with speed hacks between points or using 3 elites in a row. Lets not mention people abusing Snavir Runes bugs.
Please give in game function to report these players
(edited by ilJumperMT.4871)
tPVP
Must have:
Guardain Ele Necro Mesmer
Good to have:
Warrior or Ranger Trapper
Meh:
Thief or Ranger who isn’t trapper
Best Setup
Guardain Ele Necro Mesmerx2
Sorry I’m not sitting for 30 minutes minimum for 1 tourney.
I have more sPVP experience then most people in QP Ladder
20k burst? Sorry Warrior can do more then 20k damage in 1 skill let alone burst.
Also Mesmer does more then 20k burst with shatter build
Ignore jumper, he has been trolling in the warrior forums for the past month.
Btw any chance you can repeat that 28k on a golem?
Sorry golems die before you can do full damage.
ilJumperMT.4871Thief has lower burst then Warrior or Mesmer, while both of them have more survivability then thief..
If you think that, you’re probably not playing your Thief right.
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg
Show me any thief that comes close to that
This is a known bug and it is needless to spam this screenshot all over the forums.
Thief burst provides higher damage than a warrior’s burst.
In shorter time.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpgWarriors are fine according to people
Try again
Looks fine to me, hundred blades is easy to dodge.
Backstab or PW is easier to dodge then 100B
ilJumperMT.4871Thief has lower burst then Warrior or Mesmer, while both of them have more survivability then thief..
If you think that, you’re probably not playing your Thief right.
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg
Show me any thief that comes close to that
This is a known bug and it is needless to spam this screenshot all over the forums.
Thief burst provides higher damage than a warrior’s burst.
In shorter time.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpg
Warriors are fine according to people
Try again
ilJumperMT.4871Thief has lower burst then Warrior or Mesmer, while both of them have more survivability then thief..
If you think that, you’re probably not playing your Thief right.
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg
Show me any thief that comes close to that
You do not use devourer venom kitten p. Sword skill no 2 does that job. Only noobs used devourer venom on PW thieves.
PW got nerfed to be absolutely useless. Just save initiative and spam auto attack (you’ll do higher damage) You can troll people spamming blind power and auto attacking them to death
PW need the 15% damage nerf reverted. It did less damage then skills compared to it and it has a long wind up animation which you can dodge the damage after the mini stun by just walking out.
All PW nerf did was ruin thieves in PVE
@xeph, you’re making the same mistake payne was – this thread had nothing to do with me or payne, nor ele vs thief, or theif is op or even difficult to beat. Nor was it even making a claim of proof of anything – it was simply, here’s a video of what happened, which was half the fight where I couldn’t hit him while he attacked me from stealth, and when I finally attacked nearly half of my life was blown up with a RNG proc.
“I just don’t understand what it is you wish to achieve, by going after payne…”
It wasn’t until payne jumped in that the thread digressed to nonsense land. You’ll notice I never called him out – he called me out for bad play which was beside the point and even so I admitted freely I could have played better. That aside, I have to lol at this becoming anything about 1v1 scenario anyway. On my ele I can either build to reliably destroy thieves 1v1, or I can be useful to my team. And I beat thieves all the time even with my teamfight build anyway so please tell me why this thread is taken as a thief complaint thread?@jumper – Tons of evasion – I’m talking about the damage you can avoid with disabling shot and stealth, that joined with timing dodges between these features means you have a whole lot of time spent not taking any damage.
And as for the burst, its clearly very well known about the amazing burst potential thieves have. You have some really big hitters and then strong +damage % modifiers with traits and abilities that deal even more damage when the target is lower hp.
Thief risk vs reward just is not in line with other classes.
Please tell me how to have infinite initiative.
You cannot spam Disabling shot, espically after you dumped down all your initiative on burst.
Stealth does not make you evade or immune to damage. I killed many thiefs inside stealth. If you know how thiefs play you can easily know where to attack even if they stealth. Best part is you can hit with Eviscerate and not use adrenaline if thief stealthed.
Thief has lower burst then Warrior or Mesmer, while both of them have more survivability then thief..
Thiefs dont need nerf on damage. they just need render bug fixed and pistolwhip rebuffed (at the moment pistolwhip is useless. auto attack is better)
Lets not mention everyone runs warrior now abusing bladetrail bug
“You’re obviously a decent player but you’re using an ez-mode class with tons of evasion and insane burst – gloating or calling others out for screwing up is unsightly. No need to make this matter personal.” – Prince
Please tell me how you can have tons of evasion and insane burst at once? Its one of those mytical 30-30-30-30-30 trait points thief!
backstab hits only for 6-7k on high armor class.
try again
I play shatter mesmer in tpvp.
Bursting in shatter mesmer is constant and has only 10 second cooldown. Using sigil of energy and dodge rolling to create clones you can spam more mind wrecks.
The video you posted does not even do the maximun damage. You can chain Mirror Images and Decoy to use Cry of Frustration during channel of Blurred Frenzy, after Mindwreck hits.
I’m a Guardian with 3.2k toughness and 18k health.
Feels balanced, man.
What do you think? I have a big armor, I’m immortal !!! ????
2.3k Backstab DMG so hard !!!
I have 2.4k armor this is the result after signet was nerfed lemme guess i should have used my stunbreaker lmfao even tho he didn’t stun me. So much skill used here when 3 of the 5 buttons he clicked teleport him right to me.
That’s 24k of dmg in about 4 secs to a target with 2.4k armor lol and lemme guess that’s balanced right?
Come close to this damage.
@Illjumper
Your WRONG it’s not just bladetrail it’s anything that bounces it’s a bug theives can do it with dancing dagger too and it’s been noted by devs and is being fixed next patch.
Dancing Dagger is only 4 target max. It deals maximun damage on 2 targets. which bounces 2 times each.
Bladetrail as no limit.
Nerf everything.
But buff warriors, Longbow should 1 shot everything.
Greatsword one shot everything at range.
http://img832.imageshack.us/img832/9861/gw025c.jpg
Warrior takes the crown. 8k Backstab? Try AoE that hits up to 20k+ on Single Target (Notice how before hitting the player, the pet got hit for 10k each too)
Rank 39-49 is 45k Glory per Rank. I doubt he is 50 :P
Yes I am sure that you cannot use 2 crit procs at once. They share same internal cooldown.
For shatter build, you should use Energy on Staff and Sword, Lighting on Pistol. This allows you to spam more clones via dodging.
This is it: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fgAQNAsaGGRQ9Q7AvvjkiWj1KpY2uQA;TsAg0CnoqxUjoGbNuak1ssYQx0CA
Note that I got this from a rank 50+ Mesmer who from, as far as I can tell, basically does 100% Tournaments and sPVP (at least every time I’m on). He swears by Divinity and Fire/Air and after testing it quite a bit I’d have to agree.
Note that a lot of people tend to forget just how powerful Illusionary Persona is in that F2-F4 work even without any illusions up, so if you need a daze or an invulnerability you can use F2-F4 without any illusions up. This makes Illusionary Invigoration all that much more powerful.
With all the shatters at your disposal and with S/P + Staff, you have basically max offensive with a large amount of defensive. I’ve tried S/P + GS but it just doesn’t compare for sPVP.
Rank 50+ my kitten There is no one Rank 50 yet and Crit Sigils put each other on cooldown you cannot equip both fire and lighting at once.
dont forget to add that 100b roots you in place and takes 3.5 seconds to animate and if someone actually takes that much damage they were basically standing there and letting the warrior hit them.
…but sure, lets compare that to an instant attack and act like we discovered something new and unique!
Pistol Whip has all of those cons, and has gotten nerfed to the point that it does like 1/3 the damage 100b.
Obviously this an entirely different argument, but it does articulate the point that 100b needs to be looked at.
you are also looking at things in a vacuum.
outside of 100b greatsword is a pretty awful weapon. the adrenaline attack is so awful most people just ignore it completely, and bladetrail and whirling attack are mediocre at best. rush is pretty good, but it has a 20 second cooldown.
i know the only reason i would ever use GS is 100b, and honestly i would rather use a different weapon because its really boring only having 1 good attack on your bar to use.
i couldnt really care less if they nerfed 100b.
also with the auto level feature in the game it doesnt really bother me that much that thieves are allowed to be in a different class than the rest of the game. i can make a new thief and join the bandwagon in minutes.
i just get tired of seeing ridiculous arguements from the thief community like the rest of the world are mouthbreathers.
i can teleport, stealth, have the highest burst damage, highest condition damage, and easiest way to escape battle when things are not going my way. my class embodies low risk and high reward.
but herr derr 100b is so much similar!! /drooling
Bladetrail is medicore??
L2P Warrior, AGAIN
I should taken screenshots when 7 mesmers were on my team and I was the only thief. People kept whining about me instead of mesmers in /map
@VictorTroska.3725
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpg
Also 10-12k Eviscerates
Problem?
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpg
Warrior has more surviblity and movement then thief. I actually LOL at thiefs on my warrior. 1 Whirlwind = dead thiefs even if you stealth.
http://img31.imageshack.us/img31/5160/gw001ey.jpg
http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1079/gw017l.jpg
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2650/gw018j.jpg
Best: 28k 100b
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/9046/gw019n.jpg
Warriors are fine according to people
20k 100B while having highest surviblity due to best movement speed, armor and health is balanced.
12k Eviscrate is Balanced
8k pistolwhip which doesnt even need a dodge to move out of damage is op!
(edited by ilJumperMT.4871)
@monepipi.5160
Yes if you run a trapper ranger you have no slot for utilities, though you dont need them.
I run with 2k toughness, also Shortsword is best defensive “utility” you can use if you learn to use it