(edited by isolatedchimp.2510)
[…]Not to mention, even after I crafted a bunch of dye, I still have a ton of useless tokens that I don’t really have a use for since I’ve almost filled up my locker with what I can and have everything I want. […]
If this problem existed in PVE, we’d totally get compensated. But since this is PVP….Well… maybe… just maybe… there IS a reason why the pvp system is being reworked…
DISCLAIMER: As some crazy folks might come to the conclusion that Anet does care they are just wrong. You heard me. Wrong. WRONG. W-R-O-N-G. This is nothing but an unfair, unnecessary and overall purely evil nerf to pointless accusations on the forums.
Maybe just maybe you should actually read the issue here and that’s the fact that ANET seems to go out of their way to compensate the PVE side of things whereas in PVP they just feel free to delete stuff without compensation.
So tell me how a revamp refutes this discrepancy or is your post just a “pointless accusation on the forum”?
I think both sides arguing here have some good points. You should be using up your materials to make dye or whatever you choose. However, this is a really tedious and boring chore. Not to mention, even after I crafted a bunch of dye, I still have a ton of useless tokens that I don’t really have a use for since I’ve almost filled up my locker with what I can and have everything I want. Even if I cared to fill up the few holes, I’ll have to go through the very tedious task of seeing what I’m missing and then looking up what I need to craft it. I’d STILL have a ton of useless rank tokens left over.
If this problem existed in PVE, we’d totally get compensated. But since this is PVP….
As others have pointed out, nerfing the engineer CC is not the right way to nerf decap engis since that will severely hurt any non decap engis unnecessarily. Without effective CC, any non bunker engi is going to be way too defenseless.
The problem is that the decap engi is more than the sum of all it’s parts. The CC, the toughness, health, condi immunity, and healing put together is a bit much. But I do think AR is one of the biggest culprits in this because it benefits builds with big health pools and pretty much useless with glassy builds since you can be condispiked or just plain outdamaged at 25% health when you have a small pool of health to begin with.
I’m really annoyed by the fact that this “stepping stone” transition means that besides those rank up chests (which higher rank players will hardly ever get) we’ll have no rewards at all. How long will we be afflicted with this? And since ANET seems to hate giving retroactive rewards to PVP, why should we play during this awkward transition when it’s likely that we won’t get retroactively rewarded for anything that you do finally put in place?
Should I go take another year long break?
I’m not just saying to wait for the feature build for no reason. The high rank players are getting way more rewarded than anyone. Patience forum trolly trolls. You aren’t required to PvP, if it’s actually damaging to you and not a fun experience, find something else to hold you over, while you and the rest of us wait for the patches to roll out ! The living world is a great place to start right now especially since you can make so many to tomes of knowledge right now via belongings.
So criticizing what I think is a bad transition and questioning why it’s implemented this way is trolling? Yeah this is why so many view ANET as being unable to handle criticism.
And you just don’t get it. I don’t care about living world PVE stuff. I’m fine with it being in rank up chests. My annoyance is with the transition period taking away glory without a suitable reward system replacement for who knows how long and only giving us these rank up chests which higher rank players will hardly get. Couple this with the fact that you don’t retroactively reward PVP, it’s reasonable for me to question why you’d implement it this way. If you gave us an explanation that would be great, but ANET loves their secrecy.
You keep telling us to be patient. You mean waiting months and months for ANY balance patches isn’t patient?
I’m really annoyed by the fact that this “stepping stone” transition means that besides those rank up chests (which higher rank players will hardly ever get) we’ll have no rewards at all. How long will we be afflicted with this? And since ANET seems to hate giving retroactive rewards to PVP, why should we play during this awkward transition when it’s likely that we won’t get retroactively rewarded for anything that you do finally put in place?
Should I go take another year long break?
This feature patch may or may not be awesome but that doesn’t matter if you continue this trend of months long pauses between balance updates. Balance in PVP is everything. You’ll never get true balance but you can try to balance it often with small adjustments. Waiting months and months for ANY balance changes is infuriating.
Oh nice so i have to make 150k rank points 2 times (And then 450k..) in order to have a chest that a r30 is going to get every 15k….god you’re awesome…since when, if i can ask, r30+ is considered as “high rank”? 50+ maybe..but 30+…are you kidding me?
Yeah this seems like the opposite of what a reward system should be. Why are we getting rewarded less the higher rank we are? Shouldn’t the reward be based on what rank you are AND a flat amount of rank points you acquire?
I really can’t understand it.
Are you talking specific build or the whole profession in general? Are you playing decap bunker AR engi?
snip
Dictatorship is a good way to describe the moderation on this forum. It’s a good indication of how they deal with criticism and their (un)willingness to own up to their own mistakes. Just give infractions to anyone who disagrees with you! It gives me little hope that they’ll ever fix PVP and give us balance patches that don’t take months to come up.
I mean for crying out loud. I took a year break from this game and came back recently and found that very little has changed and that there’s only been a few balance updates since I last played!
Dictatorship is a great way to describe the moderation, IF you don’t know what dictatorship actually means. hint a dictationship wouldn’t have allowed this or any thread that criticizes the game to continue.
Have moderation crossed the line once in a while, maybe. But I like the moderation here because it forces people to behave in a more respectful way. I wish more forums were moderated like this, maybe players would be more respectful including myself.
Also admitting mistakes doesn’t really mean much in a long run, it might provide temporary comfort to those that demand it but it doesn’t do anything other than that. Admitting mistakes doesn’t fix problems, fixing problems fixes problems and their actions sometimes show they know the game has issues, lots and lots of it.
When someone says “dictatorship” they don’t mean it literally. There IS something called figure of speech. Also, there are plenty of threads that have gone on for a bit and then were deleted. Just because a thread exists doesn’t mean ANET allowed it. So your example here is not really valid.
And I find it funny that you claim that people are more respectful because of the moderation when I find that your posts are thinly veiled condescending posts. Just look at the first line of your post.
TIL about figure of speech.
Just because a thread exist doesn’t mean anet allow it.
That statement contradicts the point you are trying to make. The simple fact that a thread exist means Anet allows it, even if they don’t like the content of it.
Being respectful doesn’t mean I am not going to be condescending, It means I don’t get to throw personal insults at you. Finally, my comment said “more respectful”, which is relative to other forums.
Oh man, those mental gymnastics. But I’m not going to debate you on what is and isn’t respect since ANET has their own idea of what that is and hand out infractions like candy based on it. It doesn’t matter what you or I consider to be respect.
Also, I direct you to the thread called “Removal of Glory”. It was removed only 7 hours ago because it “violated” the guidelines of what “good” feedback was. I’m sure it was up at least for the whole weekend. So just because a thread exists right now, doesn’t mean ANET is allowing it because of the goodness in their hearts. I’ve seen posts that still exist where the post is calling someone an idiot. It doesn’t mean ANET allows such personal attacks. They simply might not have gotten around to it or even know about it. Just because someone might have gotten away with something doesn’t mean ANET is really laid back and is accepting of criticism. That’s my whole point but you seem incapable of understanding it.
NOt to continue this pointless argument any further, but like you said that thread existed over the WEEKEND, anet officially doesn’t work during the weekend; some choose to post during that time but most don’t. This thread has been going on for a full week, so you really don’t have a point.
As for accepting criticism, I really can’t comment on that but neither can you. Just because they don’t go with populist idea doesn’t mean they don’t accept criticism, sometimes they do and sometimes they don’t. Not all ideas or criticism presented in this forum is good, they are a lot more crap than good and most of the good requires a lot of changes that most companies probably wont put in the resources for, especially for a dying or dead game mode.
You’re right. You are pointless.
Hmm but will the pvp armor be introduced into pve regardless if you pvp or not? As in, if you don’t pvp much or at all, can you still get specific exclusive armors that have only stayed in pvp (up until when this patch comes obv) without having to pvp?
Meh, there’s only a few pieces that are PVP exclusive and as far as I remember, they aren’t even that hard to get. Stalwart’s for example, you can get from mystery coffers. Or you can craft it from tournament tokens. You’ll just have to bear through a few matches of PVP.
snip
Dictatorship is a good way to describe the moderation on this forum. It’s a good indication of how they deal with criticism and their (un)willingness to own up to their own mistakes. Just give infractions to anyone who disagrees with you! It gives me little hope that they’ll ever fix PVP and give us balance patches that don’t take months to come up.
I mean for crying out loud. I took a year break from this game and came back recently and found that very little has changed and that there’s only been a few balance updates since I last played!
Dictatorship is a great way to describe the moderation, IF you don’t know what dictatorship actually means. hint a dictationship wouldn’t have allowed this or any thread that criticizes the game to continue.
Have moderation crossed the line once in a while, maybe. But I like the moderation here because it forces people to behave in a more respectful way. I wish more forums were moderated like this, maybe players would be more respectful including myself.
Also admitting mistakes doesn’t really mean much in a long run, it might provide temporary comfort to those that demand it but it doesn’t do anything other than that. Admitting mistakes doesn’t fix problems, fixing problems fixes problems and their actions sometimes show they know the game has issues, lots and lots of it.
When someone says “dictatorship” they don’t mean it literally. There IS something called figure of speech. Also, there are plenty of threads that have gone on for a bit and then were deleted. Just because a thread exists doesn’t mean ANET allowed it. So your example here is not really valid.
And I find it funny that you claim that people are more respectful because of the moderation when I find that your posts are thinly veiled condescending posts. Just look at the first line of your post.
TIL about figure of speech.
Just because a thread exist doesn’t mean anet allow it.
That statement contradicts the point you are trying to make. The simple fact that a thread exist means Anet allows it, even if they don’t like the content of it.
Being respectful doesn’t mean I am not going to be condescending, It means I don’t get to throw personal insults at you. Finally, my comment said “more respectful”, which is relative to other forums.
Oh man, those mental gymnastics. But I’m not going to debate you on what is and isn’t respect since ANET has their own idea of what that is and hand out infractions like candy based on it. It doesn’t matter what you or I consider to be respect.
Also, I direct you to the thread called “Removal of Glory”. It was removed only 7 hours ago because it “violated” the guidelines of what “good” feedback was. I’m sure it was up at least for the whole weekend. So just because a thread exists right now, doesn’t mean ANET is allowing it because of the goodness in their hearts. I’ve seen posts that still exist where the post is calling someone an idiot. It doesn’t mean ANET allows such personal attacks. They simply might not have gotten around to it or even know about it. Just because someone might have gotten away with something doesn’t mean ANET is really laid back and is accepting of criticism. That’s my whole point but you seem incapable of understanding it.
(edited by isolatedchimp.2510)
The easiest and most convenient solution would be for the PVP locker to be used across all modes. Maybe that’s why they said filling up the locker would have some value. Maybe unlocking skins to put into the locker in PVE would involve transmutation stones while in unlocking it in PVP it will work the way it always has.
Dictatorship is a good way to describe the moderation on this forum. It’s a good indication of how they deal with criticism and their (un)willingness to own up to their own mistakes. Just give infractions to anyone who disagrees with you! It gives me little hope that they’ll ever fix PVP and give us balance patches that don’t take months to come up.
I mean for crying out loud. I took a year break from this game and came back recently and found that very little has changed and that there’s only been a few balance updates since I last played!
(Since the dicatorship won’t let me post more than one post every 60 minutes I’ll edit this in reply)
Dictatorship is a good way to describe the moderation on this forum. It’s a good indication of how they deal with criticism and their (un)willingness to own up to their own mistakes. Just give infractions to anyone who disagrees with you! It gives me little hope that they’ll ever fix PVP and give us balance patches that don’t take months to come up.
I mean for crying out loud. I took a year break from this game and came back recently and found that very little has changed and that there’s only been a few balance updates since I last played!
Dictatorship is a great way to describe the moderation, IF you don’t know what dictatorship actually means. hint a dictationship wouldn’t have allowed this or any thread that criticizes the game to continue.
Have moderation crossed the line once in a while, maybe. But I like the moderation here because it forces people to behave in a more respectful way. I wish more forums were moderated like this, maybe players would be more respectful including myself.
Also admitting mistakes doesn’t really mean much in a long run, it might provide temporary comfort to those that demand it but it doesn’t do anything other than that. Admitting mistakes doesn’t fix problems, fixing problems fixes problems and their actions sometimes show they know the game has issues, lots and lots of it.
When someone says “dictatorship” they don’t mean it literally. There IS something called figure of speech. Also, there are plenty of threads that have gone on for a bit and then were deleted. Just because a thread exists doesn’t mean ANET allowed it. So your example here is not really valid.
And I find it funny that you claim that people are more respectful because of the moderation when I find that your posts are thinly veiled condescending posts. Just look at the first line of your post.
(edited by isolatedchimp.2510)
This is just one of many things that ANET has done to show that they just don’t give a crap about the veteran PVP players. And people wonder why the PVP community is kittened?
Let’s be honest here are they enough veteran PvPers to warrant actively pandering their every whim and needs?
It seems me if you only read this forum, that whatever future sPvP has, it is in the hands of the newer players not veterans.
I can’t speak for others but I’m currently still playing. But the way things are, I might just go take a long break again.
And it’s funny how you say “pander to their every whim and needs”. What exactly has ANET done to pander to veteran players at all? You made it sound like veteran players always had their way. I mean ANET can’t even put out a balance patch that didn’t take longer than a few months.
This is just one of many things that ANET has done to show that they just don’t give a crap about the veteran PVP players. And people wonder why the PVP community is kittened?
Probably more useless garbage pushed onto PVP instead of putting out more frequent balance patches.
In a game where mobility is important, who thought Immob stacking was a good idea?
I don’t think ANET has a philosophy since they keep changing their stances. Change can be good but when you have no direction then it’s bad.
I took a whole year off from the game and only came back 2 months ago and it’s sad and pathetic to see that the game has not improved much and even has gotten worse in other areas.
Infrequent balance updates are a killer. It makes for a stale game and it makes the player base feel like there’s nothing going on, which there isn’t. Why in the kitten stick are you tying balance updates to feature patches?
Haha I just can’t seem to get rid of all my boosters. I’ll use them, gain glory, use the glory on chests and then end up with some more boosters. And the cycle continues.
Can’t I have dye instead of these kitten things?
I’ll just list the one thing that I feel is the worst aspect of PVP and that’s the huge wait between balance updates. When you want to tweak something to get it right you don’t make big changes every once in a while, you make smaller frequent adjustments.
The way ANET is doing things in PVP right now is the reason why PVPers are ticked off and feel like ANET just doesn’t care about PVP.
Being civil is fine and all and something that I advocate. However, on these forums the mods are so kitten touchy that anything construed as negative gets you an infraction. So why bother being civil? This is one forum where the moderation has encouraged me to be more aggressive rather than discourage it.
Seriously, why does it take so kitten long for balance patches? I understand not making knee jerk changes and testing them first but months and months for balance changes is completely ridiculous. Why are you tying balance patches to features patches? Is this your lame way of hyping up patches?
Smaller balance patches on a more frequent basis is far more healthier for the game. Oh but I’m probably going to get infracted again for being “negative” again.
I’m curious why threads that simply point out negative aspects of sPvP are closed for being “unconstructive”, yet threads that simply point out the positive aspects (like this one) are not.
The negative threads tend to devolve into name-calling, personal attacks, and trolling. That is why they get closed. Which is the reason this one might, so let’s help bring this back on-topic to the original post.
Except what you consider “name calling” is so absurdly ridiculous that anything but the wettest butt smooching is considered an offense. I called someone “dishonest” for taking my post out of context and moderation gave me an infraction.
It’s no wonder the PVP is in such a poor state because ANET cannot handle or listen to criticism. I happen to enjoy the PVP enough to care to want to improve it but it’s hard to give criticism when you guys are so sensitive.
Based on what fact? See above
Every post I see complaining about condition DPS always appears to be completely absolved of fact, and everyone seems to exert their personal opinion as if it was remotely true.
It has already been clearly established that Soldiers gear builds out damage dire gear builds. There are many threads where players have posted damage numbers in a side by side comparison to demonstrate the fact.
Thus based on most of the complaints here, they need to nerf direct damage. That is, assuming your attempting to get the higher damage of the two nerfed. Otherwise, you need to actually be aware of which one of the two actually has more DPS then the other
Most of the complaints here are uneducated jokes. It is a mathematical fact that the 3k armor+25k hp+Direct damage does more DPS then 3k armor+25k hp+Condi damage. Perhaps before some of you spam the forums with a complaint, It might be advisable that you learn some actual facts on the subject rather then base your complaints on unfounded opinions of the times you were killed in WvW.
I love it. Screams at people for not stating facts but then makes up a false claim to misrepresent other poster’s position. I don’t play WvW I play sPVP and my main is a mostly condi engi. I’m not here complaining to “get the higher damage of the two”. Got any more dishonest claims? But hey I guess it’s partly my fault since I didn’t realize the OP was talking about dire gear and hence WvW.
So yeah, I was talking about sPVP where direct damage is potentially lower due to crit damage being lower than in PVE and WvW. There is no dire gear in sPVP so I know whatever “mathematical comparisons” you have don’t apply to sPVP. So enlighten me if you have these mathematical facts for sPVP as well.
Also, I’m not even really asking for a nerf on conditions. The way I see it, conditions should do more damage than direct damage but over a much longer period of time. This should reward players who remove conditions right away and punish those who don’t. But the thing is that currently there aren’t a lot of condition removal but the conditions do their damage really quickly. It just doesn’t feel that much different than direct damage. Hence why I suggested that duration should be lengthened but overall damage be the same as it is currently.
(edited by isolatedchimp.2510)
I miss FA a lot too. I didn’t do much GVG back then but I like that as well. GW2 PVP seems lacking.
I quite like the suggestion in the other thread to change AR to be a more active and less “all or nothing” trait for condition removal and make it remove 1 condition when a toolbelt skill is used over 25% health but remove 2 conditions when a TB skill is used at or under 25%.
That way it’s more active play, it’s not cheesy complete immunity and it doesn’t screw over non-decap engis.
I’m lagging in all maps too. It’s not my internet, I’ve checked blah blah blah.
When we ask you to perform a trace route, it isn’t just your internet connection that is being checked. It will also tell us if something is going wrong between you and the game server. We have even ran into issues where one of our ISPs is having issues, and this information can help us catch that as well.
Yeah I know. I saw the stickied thread, hence me saying “checked internet blah blah blah”. I can’t claim 100% certainty that it’s your servers but whenever I lag, I ask if others are lagging and they are as well. Several times others got DCed as well.
My whole issue with condis is that they kill too fast. Not exactly burst but too fast for what are supposed to be “damage over time”. I think some conditions could do with doubled duration but same damage overall and disallow stacking in intensity.
And I say this as an engi main who mainly plays with a rabid amulet and often uses incendiary burning.
I’ve found that my “balanced build” engi with rabid amulet and specced into power and crit damage can do well in keeping a decap/bunker off a point as well. The reason is that I have pretty much the same CC and since the decap engi does no damage even with my comparably low defense, we’re just pretty much trading CC to get the other off the node. So it just becomes a matter of who the better players is.
But I have the advantage of having a far more flexible build where I can roam to other points and can actually kill things. No, I’m not suggesting that this should be the counter but it’s something to consider.
I still say that nodes should be bigger so that this issue goes away.
And I suggest that you go read the new thread and see why everything you’ve said is wrong. But please don’t go polluting that thread with your nonsense.
I’m lagging in all maps too. It’s not my internet, I’ve checked blah blah blah.
Edit: thinking about it, there could be balancing issues when using both it and cleansing formula 409 with elixirs, though.
Maybe, maybe not because I personally still wouldn’t take elixirs over kits even if they gave me extra condi cleanse from 409 in addition to this proposed toolbelt trait. But maybe I’m missing something.
I speak for my allies who constantly need 3 people to take down one decap Engineer all game long besides the fact that I run a bunker Thief.
I’m confused. Because you’ve been crying about engi CC in general this whole time but now you seem to be backtracking and talking about decap engis now.
And as others have pointed out, you keep making up builds that can’t possibly exist due to limitations in number of slots and traits and talking as though there are heavy damage dealing decapping bunker engis. One example is where you whine about slick shoes/mine engis hitting you for 10k damage.
You seriously can’t keep your stories straight here.
Once again you don’t even read my posts as I already said I wasn’t complaining about that combo I was showing that they did have damage possibilities with that CC since its instant with no animations to you since you kittening said they didn’t like a Warrior/Guardian can. Tell me again where I mention a build besides grenade/bomb/Tool kit with pistol/shield and flamethrower/bomb/Tool Kit or Throw Mine with rifle. I’ve been complaining about the lack of animations and spamming of AoEs in those two meta builds that are the only thing played by Engineers.
You weren’t complaining? Could have fooled me. But yeah I’m tired of this so I’ll just let it go.
I speak for my allies who constantly need 3 people to take down one decap Engineer all game long besides the fact that I run a bunker Thief.
I’m confused. Because you’ve been crying about engi CC in general this whole time but now you seem to be backtracking and talking about decap engis now.
And as others have pointed out, you keep making up builds that can’t possibly exist due to limitations in number of slots and traits and talking as though there are heavy damage dealing decapping bunker engis. One example is where you whine about slick shoes/mine engis hitting you for 10k damage.
You seriously can’t keep your stories straight here.
Endless AOE. Nice hyperbole since they all have cooldowns as well. And I thought you were complaining about CC? Poison is not CC.
I mean do you think a regular engi stays inside the point at ALL times when fighting something like a Hambow warror? No, he’s going to get out of the point at times momentarily. You act as if though getting out of the point at all is an act against humanity.
Again, I can see the problem with decap engis when it comes to capture points but you are complaining regular engis and their CC and you seem unwilling to use positioning to counter it. I wondered why so I checked your post history. Turns out you’re a warrior who probably is incapable of doing anything but stick to his target in melee range.
Anyway, it looks like you’re in the minority when it comes to complaints about non-decap engis. Most players here only have an issue with the decap bunker version. Good luck with your warrior, I think I’ll quit this discussion with you.
Actually you are wrong I play Thief in Spvp mainly and going outside of the point is an act against humanity in a game based around capturing and holding points. Leaving the point to get out of Combustive Shot and let him cap the point is a terrible move and Combustive Shot is pretty much a slower ticking Fire Bomb. You also seem to forget that they have their first skills that can be spammed endlessly and still apply bleeding and burning from traits possibly.
Please tell me your magical counter position that stops all Engineers instant CC besides staying 600+ range away which is actually the counter but giving him the point for it is pretty much as bad a being knockbacked and screws your team more than fighting on the point and dying to him if you don’t die in 5 seconds. As I said I would have no problem with Engineers if points were as big as the middle part of Foefire but as they are now their spam is as big as every other point and their instant CC give unstoppable decaps in 1 vs 1s.
The fact that you can’t even go out of the point for even a second makes you a bad player. And you are supposed to make the engineer go out of the point as well. Only bad players think they just fight mindlessly inside a circle.
The reason why a decap engi is bad is not just because it has CC but because it has huge survivability which enables it to ignore opponent’s attempts at getting it off the point. Regular engis cannot ignore such attempts because they don’t have the survivability.
So you’re telling me that as a thief that you have no way to make ANY opponent get off a point? Seriously?
I mean everyone else’s complaints are about the decap engi because it cannot be unseated from the point. While your complaints are about ANY engi because you can’t just camp inside the point indefinitely against one. You see the irony here?
(edited by isolatedchimp.2510)
Endless AOE. Nice hyperbole since they all have cooldowns as well. And I thought you were complaining about CC? Poison is not CC.
I mean do you think a regular engi stays inside the point at ALL times when fighting something like a Hambow warror? No, he’s going to get out of the point at times momentarily. You act as if though getting out of the point at all is an act against humanity.
Again, I can see the problem with decap engis when it comes to capture points but you are complaining regular engis and their CC and you seem unwilling to use positioning to counter it. I wondered why so I checked your post history. Turns out you’re a warrior who probably is incapable of doing anything but stick to his target in melee range.
Anyway, it looks like you’re in the minority when it comes to complaints about non-decap engis. Most players here only have an issue with the decap bunker version. Good luck with your warrior, I think I’ll quit this discussion with you.
This reminds me “just
dodgeanticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, the guy I’m replying to is saying that you can’t dodge those CC and I’m saying that dodging is NOT the counter but rather it is positioning that is the counter. Knockback has a very limited range so get the hell out of range during those crucial moments, such as getting a heal off. Time your bursts between knockbacks instead of blowing them all at once only to get CCed.
You realize the points are all way less than 300 range and an Engineer standing in the middle will hit you either way so theres no actual way to position yourself in a way to avoid it besides standing outside of the point, you know, where they kittening are trying to get you to go in the first place.
Oh for kitten’s sake. The same could be said for ANYTHING in the game then. Pretty much any skill or mechanic will destroy you if you insist on staying inside the point and within range of those skills and mechanics.
You realize that you should momentarily position yourself outside the point right? Other than facing a decap engi, this shouldn’t be problematic against any other build or profession. I mean I don’t see you crying about having to leave a point if any other profession puts an AOE on the point.
This reminds me “just
dodgeanticipate fear lel” from terror necros right after their ascension to meta.
Except that’s not what I’m saying at all. In fact, the guy I’m replying to is saying that you can’t dodge those CC and I’m saying that dodging is NOT the counter but rather it is positioning that is the counter. Knockback has a very limited range so get the hell out of range during those crucial moments, such as getting a heal off. Time your bursts between knockbacks instead of blowing them all at once only to get CCed.
This thread is really messy. It started out as a complaint thread about decap engis but starting to turn into a general “engi CC” is OP thread. It could be argued that decap engis are problematic in the current conquest game mode (I say it’s a more of a problem in the game mode itself and that the capture points should be bigger) but to argue that engi CC in general needs a nerf is ridiculous.
There IS counter play to the CC, it’s just not a simple dodge the CC when it’s telegraphed, it’s more about positioning yourself and anticipating when the CC will come, usually at critical moments such as before a burst or a defensive move. And stop acting like engis are the only profession with instant cast abilities.
(edited by isolatedchimp.2510)
Haha. Considering that engis only have access to rifle or pistol is it any surprise that you’d see engis carry either one of those weapons? And then you go on to list pretty much every kit available. And that’s your argument that they’re OP?
Or maybe engis other skills like turrets and potions are not viable and so kits are pretty much the most used skills for ANY engi build?
Yeah the whole engi complaint has really gotten ridiculous. The bunker/de-cap build I can understand being problematic in the conquest game mode. But whining about engis in general? Ridiculous.
Overcharged shot is a 3 second knockdown and 450 knockback with an instant cast. Slick Shoes is an instant knock down, Magnetic Inversion is an instant knockback and Air Blast is an instant knockback.
Also to the other guy the reason I’m mentioning them is because he was talking about Engineer being unable to do good damage with those CC.
Yeah I already mentioned the shield and FT knockback. I forgot about rifle but my point still stands there because you also get knocked back so it’s not like you can really burst your target down after it and again there is distance between you and the target unlike with hammer knockdowns. Slicks Shoes is instant but like I said before, if an engi goes near you then it’s trouble. And if an engi gets you with slick shoes because you were meleeing him, is that not a fair defense?
You still havent explained how this is a real balance issue here. You can’t mess with engi CC to nerf bunker decap without hurting Engis overall. Or are you saying engi as a whole is imbalanced?
The self knockdown is only a second so you have 2 seconds of him being in knockdown while you aren’t. The problem is all those skills are instant and instant CC should not even exist in this game since there is 0 counter play. Engineer has no problems getting in melee range for Slick Shoes. Engineer as a whole is imbalanced with its instant CC/lack of animations and spammable AoE conditions with ridiculous survivability in the current two meta builds that every sheep is using.
Also they actually have more in the form of Accelerant-Packed Turrets giving instant CC per turret.
Every sheep is using? Okay I see that you’re just mad.
Overcharged shot is a 3 second knockdown and 450 knockback with an instant cast. Slick Shoes is an instant knock down, Magnetic Inversion is an instant knockback and Air Blast is an instant knockback.
Also to the other guy the reason I’m mentioning them is because he was talking about Engineer being unable to do good damage with those CC.
Yeah I already mentioned the shield and FT knockback. I forgot about rifle but my point still stands there because you also get knocked back so it’s not like you can really burst your target down after it and again there is distance between you and the target unlike with hammer knockdowns. Slicks Shoes is instant but like I said before, if an engi goes near you then it’s trouble. And if an engi gets you with slick shoes because you were meleeing him, is that not a fair defense?
You still havent explained how this is a real balance issue here. You can’t mess with engi CC to nerf bunker decap without hurting Engis overall. Or are you saying engi as a whole is imbalanced?
Bombs can take up the entire point so it isn’t exactly hard to hit unless your in WvW but this is the Spvp forums. I have no problem with BOB its a very balanced skill but Engineer has 4 instant CC skills and they have no counter play besides prediction or really long stability but its still impossible to get perma stability in Spvp.
Like I said before. Knockbacks can’t get you chain stunned/burst the way hammers can, so I think it’s fair that they’re instant cast. What are the other two instant CC skills are you talking about? The slicks shoes/mines thing? Those are VERY obvious tells. Pretty much in ANY case where an engi is trying to get near you is a sign to get away.
Every bomb skill has the exact same animation and model so you cannot tell the difference between a Fire Bomb and a Concussion Bomb till its already hit you.
Zerker Engineers can do 10k in a Mine Field while removing 5 boons and 7k with a point blank Jump Shot which are easily castable in a 2 second stun. Slick Shoes will let you cast the combo twice in two different ways. Also the problem with it is again the 0 animation on any of their CC while you can see a Guardian casting Banish from a mile away. Shield of Absorption has a 40 second cooldown and doesn’t knock you down for 3 seconds nor as far. The only problem skill Warriors have is Fear Me which has a 60 second cooldown and using that interferes with the meta double stance, stability builds.
Do you know how hard it is to land bombs on good players? So I don’t see why you make it sound like it’s a big issue that there’s no way to differentiate between the bombs. Trust me, if I get the opportunity to land a bomb on you, you’d want to get out of the way regardless of what type it is. And most likely it’s not just going to be a regular skill 1 bomb. Not that I’m opposed to some way to differentiate (maybe different colors?) but I find it silly that you’re complaining about this.
As for mines and slick shoes combo, that’s a really hard combo to pull off. No one really uses that anymore because of that too because it’s a one trick pony. You dedicate two of your slots for this and has far less room for error than a hammer knockdown/burst. And if you make a mistake, you’re screwed because to do 10k+ damage on an engi means you have no defense at all. Don’t believe me? Try it.
Again, I’m not opposed to adding animations or tells but messing with the instant cast times on some of the CC would be horrible for the engi since it’s already hard to time some of those skills. Bombs already have a delay (Especially BOB). Mines have an obvious animation and need to be activated manually or the target has to walk over them. Slick Shoes requires you to be in melee range of the target unless the target was running after you but should have noticed the black streaks on the ground. I mean come on, if an engi is running towards you, then you should know it’s not good news. OBVIOUS sign. Magnet pull from the toolkit takes a second and has an obvious animation. Really the only instant cast that the engi has are knockbacks from the shield and flamethrower.
But hey weren’t we talking about DECAP ENGIS? Decap engis can’t use ANY of this to kill you. Unless you’re in the fight way too long to let him whittle your health down.
(edited by isolatedchimp.2510)
I can confirm this too, that rank up chests only have 2 or items. I only got 2 items from my last one.
Or maybe they can make the capture points bigger so that any knockback from dead center does not knock you out of the capture radius. I suggest this not because I play a bunker/decap engi but because I play an offensive engi and I can only see any nerf to a bunker/decap engi hurting all engi builds with the exception of a nerf to AR.
To those complaining that engi CCs have quick/instant cast while warrior/guardian hammer has more obvious animations, I say that it’s fair because engi CC does not have the big damage or the ease to use follow up damage after that CC. It’s far harder to burst a foe that you’ve knocked away as opposed to knocking a foe down right in front of you. You always know where the opponent will be on a knock down but you can only guess where he’ll land on a knockback/launch. Then you only have a split second to burst on him, usually with ranged attacks and ranged attacks are generally a lot less damaging than melee attacks.
I was under the impression that control effects make you actually lose control of your character, which immobilize does not.
Therefore, it is not a control effect
Immobilize makes it so that you can’t move your character, therefore it is a loss of control.
I think a spirit ranger and some engi beat me on a 1v1 on my warrior but yeah most times I die because I’m getting zerged. So warrior weakness is a zerg.
Decap engi gets NUKED by conditions, it’s only cond removal it’s the healing turret. It has NO stunbreakers equipped, the slightest cc and you’re done.
You mean the biggest condi dmg dealer the Necro nukes you down in >1< second from 100% to 25% then your idiocy activates and the only ways to get you killed through the DS skills are blocked by the toolbelt shield? Ye, man, skill required 101. The condis you talking about are out-healed very easily by just swapping your kits constantly for the passive regen…. Not to mention you can deploy your turret when your HP is dropping down and destroy it IF you get feared right before that tresh-hold and thus clear the condis…
This is relying on passive mechanic and is by far NO different than Dhuumfire!
I think AR should be reworked so that it’s not useless in some situations and OP in others. The trick to beating AR is exploiting what makes it useless, which is to NOT put all your condition burst when the AR engi is at full health but whittle him down close to 25% and THEN put your full burst of condis on him. AR doesn’t get rid of existing condis only condis AFTER the 25% mark. He should die from those conditions or at least be at such low health that regular damage can kill him.