I currently use Runes of the Pirate on my ranger because they turn an already good build into one that wins 90% of my 1v1 fights, perfect for rushing home or far. I’ve used it a lot in Angz dueling server and the reason most people lose to it is they don’t kite my pets, they just “tank” it. If my bird is traited to do a lot of damage, why don’t you avoid it like you avoid an eviscerate for example. Dueling with Leeto he eventually started to kite my birds and he eventually started beating me. I think this is a L2P issue, as I haven’t found a build yet where the bird is ridiculously OP.
The problem is that A.I. builds should not be as effective/more effective than a non A.I. build and with less effort and skill.
Terrible ranged options as well. Inb4 everybody comes in and says wth are you talking about Longbow OP!!!!. Longbow is a terrible weapon for ranged combat. First of all it is only 900 range. The auto-attacks completely suck. The enemy has to be AFK for you to land Arcing Arrow and Combustive Shot from 900 Range. Smoldering Arrow actually doesn’t land very well past 600 units and Pindown requires you to have a gap closing melee weapon to take advantage of it. The Longbow is more of a semi-ranged melee bruiser weapon most effective within 300-400 units within an enemy. Pretty much, every attack has a high chance of missing past 600 units, enemies can sidestep most of your isht.
Actually, I really don’t know WTH you’re talking about. Combustive Shot has such a big radius you’d have to be completely inept not to be able to cover the general vicinity, especially when in sPVP on a node. And when aren’t you ever on a node fighting? I don’t have any problems landing smothering arrow when in range and I use arcing arrow into a crowd with no issues. And pindown? I usually use it when my opponents are running/kiting away from me and shoot them in the back or when I know they’ve used up their dodges.
So yeah I don’t know how in hell you can say longbow is a “terrible ranged option” and it just reeks of someone desperately trying to defend the profession.
Also, wouldn’t you say a profession that relies less on dodging but more on it’s base stats for defense means that it’s more forgiving than other professions? Sure there are other factors as well but the general consensus has always been that dodging takes more player skill while being more tanky because of passive stats takes less skill.
Nice discussion here but ANET isn’t going to do jack any time soon if they do decide to add a new mode to PVP. It takes them ages to even do balance updates so how long would you think it will take them to make new modes and balance around that? Yeah don’t get your hopes up.
I think the balance right now is pretty good, with only a few small things here and there in some builds that are a little too strong. And of course, there are certain specific builds that just counter other different specific builds.
What annoys me about threads like these are people who just toss in things like “engi is OP” as though the whole entire profession is broken. No specific build is mentioned or specific skills that could be too strong and puts the build over the top. Just straight out whining about the whole profession. This points out to me that these people simply don’t understand the profession enough to analyze it and point out specifics. They’re just bad and got beaten and so they’re here whining about it.
Why hasn’t this guy been suspended from the forums yet? He’s constantly making these threads to troll people. Hell, I got suspended for a few days just for saying some guy was “dishonest”. Good job mods!
PVP seriously needs new game modes. Another conquest map won’t do anything, we need new modes. I’m going to finish my current dungeon reward track and pretty much quit the game until there’s something new. I’d love there to be a 5v5 version of GW1’s GvG or even modes like GW1’s Fort Aspenwood battles. I’m not too keen on pure arenas because those get boring real quick to me.
Sorry but this needs to be said: yet another thread with a bad player complaining about stuff that he should instead learn to counter instead of complaining.
You claim that PVP is “littered with engis and eles” because of mist form and Elixir S? Laughable. Most don’t even carry those skills. And they still have to down you in order to take advantage of invulnerable stomping you, it doesn’t magically put you in the down state. And it’s hardly any different from stealth or stability or blind stomping.
I say this as an engi who never carries any elixirs nowadays but uses the blind on the flamethrower to stomp an enemy. Maybe you’re going to complain about that too next.
The reason Dhuumfire was nerfed has never been related to Epidemic.
Not to mention that Epidemic is totally counterable.
Even if I accept your claim that Epidemic is “totally counterable” (unblockable/recharge 15 seconds), the fact is that engis don’t even have the ability to spread burning from IP to everyone whereas necros do. FACT.
it is funny, Dhuumfire has been nerfed because it was too easy, no brain etc and devs want it more skillplay.
Engie has a pre nerf Dhummfire as master trait when Dhuumfire is a grand master one but devs don’t really care about.
Where is balance? My main is a necromancer and I don’t even play it in sPvP, i am not really found of being a ping pong ball for other players, now i play my engi has condi bunker it has lot more sustain than my necromancer, can handle 1vs1 and 1vs2 more easily than my necromancer and brings heals and condi removals for my team.
THIS. It is mind boggling that they made such an issue about Dhuumfire and yet IP get’s completely ignored like it doesn’t exist. aNet devs have NO idea how to balance this game.
Maybe you missed my post just a few post above yours but Dhuumfire on necro is nothing like IP on engineer. IP is single target only while on the necro, using Epidemic, you can spread burning on everyone nearby. This is why Dhuumfire was moved to DS where you can’t access Epidemic readily.
Now can we stop spreading the disinformation that IP on engi is just like Dhuumfire on Necro? It’s just straight out dishonest.
You’re either a troll or you’re just a bad player with a bad attitude who shouldn’t be playing PVP. It’s no wonder you’re also making multiple “I can’t beat profession X, please nerf” threads.
This is also the same guy who made a thread crying about retaliation and asking for it’s removal. Either he’s a troll or a serious case of learntoplay.
EDIT: Even more hilarious, this is a guy who has also said that engineer downed state is OP because he had trouble stomping them.
People love to compare Dhuumfire to IP but completely ignore the fact that Necros were able to apply fire to all nearby foes every 15 seconds! You think that IP is bad with a SINGLE TARGET ONLY burning proc? How about IP times 5 times every 15 seconds in a team fight from just a single necro? So yeah stop mindlessly comparing Dhuumfire on a necro and IP on an engi. The same exact skills can work entirely differently on different professions.
Wait, so we’re now calling for nerfs based on degree of boredom associated with whatever you’re trying to nerf? In that case, we might have to nerf the whole conquest game mode because it’s getting pretty monotonous.
Just because something is objective doesn’t mean it’s not an opinion shared by others. It’s also relevant because if players aren’t enjoying themselves they aren’t going to play, duh.
I’m pretty sure you mean “subjective” because objective is the opposite of an opinion.
First off, I don’t think any A.I. build should be effective at all in PVP, this goes for MM, Spirit Rangers or turret engis. But I really haven’t encountered any problematic turret engis since the patch. Maybe I was just lucky and didn’t run into any skilled turret engis. I have not tried a turret engi build either and I have no interest at all since I don’t like A.I. builds. I’ll try to force myself to play one and see what the fuss is all about but so far, I’m not really impressed with what I’ve faced.
Unless you’re in a 4v5 situation and your team agrees to forfeit the game, it’s really a-holish of you to go AFK. If you can’t handle losing that you have to go AFK, then don’t play PVP. You’re wasting everyone’s time, including your own.
Celestial needs to be nerfed, when you give people 2000 more stats than everyone else.
Ok this is a huge exaggeration. Celestial has a total of 3038 stats. Berserkers has 2340. Rabid has 2208.
That’s only 698 difference between celestial and berserkers. You can argue whether or not the gap is too much to compensate for celestial’s lack of specialization but the numbers you have here are plain wrong.
I think Celestial is fine. You lose a lot of specialization for the extra stats elsewhere. Celestial was terrible before the buff and no one used it. It got buffed up about 658 points from 2380 (including jewel).
Haha yet more whining about conditions. Out of my 8 characters, I only play condi on my engineer. But even now, I’m moving away from going full condi on my engi. Conditions work great against new players but in a more experienced and organized setting, it’s a lot harder to kill someone with, unless they’re specifically weak against conditions (i.e. engineers).
TBH throwing Balthazar Runes on i’ve looked at the tool tip in HotM, with rabids and a 4/6/0/4/0 set up I’ve seen that single trait’s tool tip state 8k damage in burning, on a ICD of 10s. I kinda hope it changed to something a little bit more predictable/skill wise to land instead of passive proc on crit.
You don’t get 8k damage for IP in sPVP. So if you’re getting 8k damage in PVE/WvW then it’s something else that’s OP (i.e. food buffs).
Chaith, I feel part of your problem here, is that you are automatically assuming that every posters comments refer exclusively to specific situations in sPvP. I saw nothing in the title or the OP that specifies this discussion is based on sPvP. I cannot speak for everyone else, but I was not being exclusive to a specific game mode in my comments.
I would appreciate it if you would not take my statements out of context and apply it to only one specific situation, and presume to declare my opinion as discount able, simply because you only see things in terms of sPvP.
Why would the way Incendiary Powder is procced matter in any non player vs. player scenario?
Roaming in WvW., havoc group clashes, etc.
I love how after I asked you politely, you continue to question me for having an opinion, and show absolutely no effort or concern for making rude assumptions. How considerate of you.
Like it or not, there are reasons for concern that players may have, outside the scope of sPvP. WvW is a player vs. player game mode, and there are many situations in which skilled game play comes into effect. Which is precisely the scope of my comments.
Chaith said “in any non PVP situation”, PVP which includes WvW. Also, you didn’t answer his question, how does the way IP procs matter in any non PVP situation?
And how was he in any way rude? I remember you accusing me of the same thing and reporting me. If you’re this sensitive maybe you shouldn’t be so abrasive yourself.
The elite drop is the only elite in game that has no duration. They will continue to do what they do perpetually until destroyed.
Holy crap, this is the kind of misinformation and ignorance that gets spread around and gets people to start yelling nerf instead of doing research and learning the profession.
No duration on the elite? Everything that drops from the crate disappears after a minute. I really wish people would do their research first. A lot of you also seem to think that one can be a decapping condi IP burning turret engi all in one build. It’s funny because I can switch from one extreme build to another and people will yell “kittening decap” no matter what.
Oh and here is the REAL information on Supply Crate. Notice the 60 second duration:
Just be glad that there’s no more underwater fighting. You can’t even stomp underwater so there could literally be two of us hitting a downed ranger just to kill the kitten.
I never intended a nerf, I had a trade-off in mind. I also find it absurd that you claim that it won’t change anything while you showed that you could improve the effectiveness of the trait with skillfull play.
Funny you just claimed that IP was just a proc like any other on another profession and was treated unjustly while dhuumfire (which is a more costly version of IP) has been in exactly the same position, but that is acceptable in your eyes.
Read my post again, Timmy. I said it doesn’t change anything regarding skillful play. Any engi with any skill whatsoever is already switching back and forth between kits and his weapon often. Having IP proc on main weapon only doesn’t change any of that. Also, buffing something doesn’t automatically mean it increases skilled play. Do I really have to explain that?
And my point about procs and IP is that I see people complain about IP but can’t put forth an argument that isn’t an argument that could be applied to other procs but nothing specific to IP or engis themselves (i.e. it’s passive, it has no counter play, etc etc). Go read Chaith’s post earlier in this thread since he explains it far better.
Pressing 6, 6, and F rapidly takes a lot of practice? We’re not talking about the overcharge blast, remember. This is just cast, overcharge, pick up. It’s not difficult in the slightest.
It is more physical actions to use that process then any other heal skill in the game. As well, it has to be done in a certain time frame, unlike something like mantras that can be primed ahead of time. Just sayin.
Pressing two buttons, oh, such skill. This is laughable argument. You don’t have to worry about being interrupted and part of HT is AoE. If one heal should be better just because it takes more buttons to press (which is not any issue for even average joe) then please make all heals like that!
Those are two extra button pushes that could have been used to activate at least one other skill or a dodge or something. Hell, if you don’t think it matters how many button pushes it takes, how about we double the amount of clicks for every skill on your skill bar then?
I don’t know how this promote skillful play at all since a skilled player switches between kits and weapons very frequently anyway and/or builds with no kits that require a lot less skill juggling can just stick to their weapons.
aren’t valid.
It promotes skillfull play since a player can now time his burn better. A player now has to hit with specific skill now to inflict burning so no grenade spamming into a point and getting a free burn. I don’t think any build without kits is even viable let alone a condition build.
Also, IP isn’t any different from any other procs on other profession. These complaints aren’t valid.
Well then let’s revert the nerf to dhuumfire and make it a master trait.
My point is that for engis with any skill whatsoever this isn’t going to make ANY difference at all in regards to “more skilled play”. It’s not hard at all to switch to the main weapon to proc IP. In fact, I consider it somewhat a buff since it gives engis more control on when to proc their burning (i.e. after the opponent’s cleanse). So if your intention was a nerf, I think it fails.
As for your Dhuumfire argument, that’s on a different profession with different mechanics, weaknesses and strengths. It’s dishonest to compare these two traits. I was simply pointing out that the argument that IP has no counterplay and that it’s passive can be applied to a ton of stuff out there. Why is IP being singled out? Especially since engis aren’t dominating any meta out there with burning.
In my opinion the best way to make this trait a bit more skillfull is to change the proc from on critical hit, to on hit with a weapon (not kits). This should promote a bit more skillfull play with the trait while making it more reliable.
I don’t know how this promote skillful play at all since a skilled player switches between kits and weapons very frequently anyway and/or builds with no kits that require a lot less skill juggling can just stick to their weapons.
Also, IP isn’t any different from any other procs on other profession. These complaints aren’t valid.
That still doesn’t dispute my point if you have to take sigil of intelligence for your condition builds. It still means that precision/critical chance is a factor in the strongest condition builds whereas so many people claim that it is not.
Also, sigil of intelligence is less efficient with condi builds that have multiple crit based procs, especially ones with low cooldowns. Also, it means one less crit based condition procced sigil on your build.
its like no one runs points in firearms or takes the elixir B passive trait with 30s of fury hurrrrrr
Hurr Durr, because putting points into firearms or taking elixir B doesn’t count as crit chance/precision at all!
Oh no wait, it does. Running points into the firearms traitline is literally running points into precision. I don’t know what you’re thinking here. Good grief.
you completely missed the point didnt you
I guess I did. Sarcasm isn’t translated well in written form.
its like no one runs points in firearms or takes the elixir B passive trait with 30s of fury hurrrrrr
Hurr Durr, because putting points into firearms or taking elixir B doesn’t count as crit chance/precision at all!
Oh no wait, it does. Running points into the firearms traitline is literally running points into precision. I don’t know what you’re thinking here. Good grief.
- Condition builds only take 2 offensive stats in accout to be strong where as power builds are affected by 4 stats (power, precision, ferocity, enemy toughness). This gives condition speccs a huge advantage as they can build more defensively why still dealing high damage.
I like how people that complain about conditions always pretend that condition duration is only a one way advantage for conditions and ignore the fact that duration can not only just be increased but decreased as well. Also, conditions have a disadvantage over power builds in that you can mitigate some or most of the damage AFTER getting hit by it. And I love that people pretend that precision is NEVER a factor in condition builds when there are condition builds/traits/runes/sigils that rely on critical chance (i.e. Incendiary Powder).
Yeah, try running an IP build with no precision at all, let’s see how far that miniscule base crit chance rate will get you burning. Way to be dishonest, people.
Until someone can show numbers that show condition damage is far more effective than direct damage, than these threads whining about conditions are just that, whining. Direct burst damage is more efficient, especially against the more skilled players. The only time I play a condition build is on my engi and that’s only because I like pistol/shield and those only work well with conditions. Most of time I play zerker builds.
And like it or not, the TOL illustrates this well. You can’t dismiss it as “irrelevant” just because it contradicts your complaint.
It’s not that they outdamage BURST builds, though I’m not saying that it’s impossible.
It’s the fact that they’re also debuffs that eventually outlast you while turning you useless unless you cleanse them. Condis can’t kill people as fast as power builds do but it’s coming terrifying close.
You act as if though zerker builds don’t also have access to these debuffs as well. You can use those same debuffs or CC to disable those condi builds and burst them down as a zerker. Debuffing’s main purpose isn’t to do damage (some of which don’t even do damage) so condition damage is just a secondary effect to these debuffing conditions like blinds, cripples,chills, etc etc.
Until someone can show numbers that show condition damage is far more effective than direct damage, than these threads whining about conditions are just that, whining. Direct burst damage is more efficient, especially against the more skilled players. The only time I play a condition build is on my engi and that’s only because I like pistol/shield and those only work well with conditions. Most of time I play zerker builds.
And like it or not, the TOL illustrates this well. You can’t dismiss it as “irrelevant” just because it contradicts your complaint.
Actually, you have a much better odds of getting a legendary as a PvPer than as a PvEer.
Also legendary is just a skin, it has even less value to a PvP only player. Since the only good thing about it is worthless in SPvP, stat switching.
Please explain this “logic”, considering that you also have to get 100% exploration. Any PVE player will already have the edge over PVP players on this one factor alone.
Newer players are also guilty of kittenbag behavior as well though, it’s not strictly established PVP players, in fact a lot of the good players are pretty civil. I’ve found that a lot of the new players coming from PVE just cannot handle losing or getting killed and take it very personally. So don’t mistake the abuse as solely a PVP player thing.
u know why they dont have condis, cause they know how to play without them. Condi’s=easymode
You don’t know what you’re talking about. The top teams themselves have said that they used the most effective builds (even if cheesy) for the tournament simply because they wanted to win. If condition builds were easy mode then why didn’t they run those? Yeah try again.
I USED to think conditions were OP too (check my post history from a few months ago). But then I got better at the game. Burst simply is more efficient and I play power builds on most of my profession. My main engi is condition only because I prefer pistol/shield and bomb kit playstyle and power builds do not work well with those.
engineer is pretty much designed for spvp to the point where only one or two professions can even attempt to handle them.
they can spam aoe/conditions, use plenty of cc, go invuln multiple times, lay down AI (albeit mild), and aoe heal.
as a thief i only attempt an engie if they’re power or flat out terrible, otherwise there’s no point.
I hate hard counter professions as much as you do since necros are the hard counter to engis as engis are the counter to thieves. But you don’t see me as a main engi calling for nerfs to necros. So if/when necros aren’t such a hard counter to engis then we can talk about thief vs. engis.
I really feel that balance is pretty good right now, not perfect, but pretty good. But who knows what will pop up later on. At this point, I think anyone complaining about any profession is massively QQing.
Eh, I don’t think it’s a fault of ANET’s art department if you feel that the attractive females look better than the attractive males. Most straight men are going to feel that way. I do think that male humans could use some rugged looking options though.
Also, if you’re a straight guy playing a female because you don’t want to stare at male meat cheeks for hours, why are you staring at male butts in the first place? Not that there’s anything wrong with that but I laugh at this explanation. Play what you want but leave the silly excuses at home.
Sucks the most for honest Shatter mesmers like me :/
I get hate tells from pvehotjoin heros all the time,
“omg ur so skill, ai ftw, gg”
Most of the time they die because they eat 4 Mind wrack 3 Cry of confusion instantly..(Roughly 16k damage with Blurred frenzy going)
Highest warlock crit I’ve seen so far in game was 8k, on a thief, with 25 vuln (oh yea, sit in my chaos storm bro) and 19 might on me.
Pro tips: Don’t sit in chaos storm, Each time you’re dazed? That’s 8 vuln. if you get 25 vuln on you, My auto attacks start hitting for 2.6k.
Haha wow the amount of junk in this post. First off, I said nothing about your skill. I only pointed out how the AI was doing way too much damage. You tried to play it off like it was only your shatters that were doing damage and pretended like I was sitting in your CS or some other stupid crap. If that’s true, why are you now on the forums complaining about the bug fix to NPCs? I thought it was your amazing skill at shattering that was killing players! Turns out I was right about AI damage wasn’t I? Second, you PMed me in game with nasty messages, not the other way around. Way to twist it around.
Anyway, I’ve been playing my mesmer after the hotfix and it’s just fine without the stupidly ridiculous damage and I’m not getting instantly killed when I play against one using any other profession. I’m glad ANET was so fast on this fix. If only they were this fast all the time.
I’m complaining about decap and the 2 meta kit builds obviously.
You mean the “meta” 2 kit engineers that people hear so much about and are complained so much about and that you have proof that they are problem even just a little bit? Oh wait….
Please, stop being a hypocrite. You’re complaining about builds that are not problematic in any meta except of your own fabrication. So in your own words you are bad.
Let me quote you again except replace the word “warriors” with “engineers”.
Complaining about non meta Warriors is an obvious sign of bad.
Yet Glaphen here is complaining about the ENTIRE engineer profession as a whole, even complaining about the NON meta NON decap bunker/AR engineers. The only engineers that are a problem in any meta is the decap, so does that mean you “are a bad” for complaining about non meta engineers.
Seriously, just quit it. You’re choking on your own words of hypocrisy here.
EDIT: Also, don’t expect me to reply to you right away since I’m on a once per hour post restriction. Thanks ANET!
Engineer stopped taking skill a long time ago, it really isn’t hard to hit people on points and if no one is on a point you already won did you not?
Says the bunker/evade thief who does nothing but evade evade evade and no damage. No one should ever listen to you on issues of profession balance because you have this mentality that you’re not doing anything wrong but rather that it’s everything else that’s broken. That’s a horrible attitude to have and prevents you from ever learning.
Also, look at this hypocrisy from your most recent post.
The one skill that makes Thief a Thief needs to be nerfed? Game isn’t balanced around one on ones.
So you say the game isn’t balance around one on one when it involves a thief. But here you’re complaining about an engi supposedly winning any cap fight, presumably also one on one. If you’re claiming that a non bunker engi is also winning 1v2 fights that just further reinforces that you’re full of it.
You’re obsessed with trying to get engis nerfed. Whining about everything from their healing, CC, conditions, I mean everything. It’s quite ridiculous. Like I said, no one should ever listen to you because you’re extremely biased and irrational.
Immob stacking is bad because it takes less skill and coordination to spam them on top of each other compared to timing them. Also, there’s too many issues with removing it. Can’t reliably remove it unless you have full cleanse or specialty skills such as rocket boots.
If you are mediocre, that is your own fault. And if you believe rank = skill, then why has EVERY “hardcore” pvper been crying about rank != skill since the beginning of the game.
QQ post is still QQ post.
Wow. Sounds like someone has the Shaft up his butt.
Yeah, so apparently the engi is OP but it’s only the same handful of people that are complaining over and over on this forum. Two of which I know main a thief, which has a disadvantage against engis. But these same guys ignore the fact that engis are severely handicapped against necros. You know who you are. The only thing that is problematic is the AR decapper engi, which is why you almost never hear anyone complain that non decap engis are OP, except of course for those same handful of people.
And apparently OE and Teldo are scrubs being carried by the profession. I love this thread.
