Like many others on here have said, stop feeding there crap rng system. For what you spend on here TRYING to maybe get 1 skin you can pay an entire years sub to a AAA mmo of your choice and get developers that listen to the community because they are trying to keep your business.
I’m not sure about this but did the price of blues/greens also go up on tp due to people trying to boost MF? Maybe its to help balance that a bit too? Not defending it just saying it may have been a factor. Either way the fact they are always conveniently forgetting to include certain needs in the patch notes is getting borderline insulting to a community that already feels like they are being mistreated and duped. Not good for business…
I don’t know how well it would work but you mentioned superman, x ray vision, and your handle is my favorite drink…you have earned my vote.
(edited by kailin.4905)
I see people saying how important effects are because of combination fields etc. But what good is that if it makes performance so bad you are stuck just spamming 1111 anyway in most situations where combo fields are preferable to try to use. I really don’t mind the ui that bad although move options and scaling would be nice. I think my issue is more of a combination of bad camera, lots of effect overkill, and bad performance of the engine. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I fought the lich probably 50x and never did really “see” it. I find that to be a kitten shame because the game IS beautiful but you miss a lot of it.
(edited by kailin.4905)
Translation: “Give me my shinies! I want instant shinies when I tag a champ in a zergtrain! I don’t give a rat’s abs about stories and lore and all that sheep.”
How is it any worse than the anet translation of “Buy your shinies here!!! No skill or need to play the game required…Just open your wallet and buy the intended ascetic endgame”
I can’t see kitten. I just “swing away” and pray I hit a home run.
Swing away Merrill
Thats it…there is no fun anymore. Dont get me wrong..the patch looksreally nice with the tower and whatnot..but the reward..a 5skillpoint scroll Rofl and a shard with a daily limit ofcourse. No new title or cool skins which we can get. This game is going downhill..
I think at this point they are doing just enough and promising just enough to keep a decent amount of people playing to make all the cash they can before the whole thing explodes. Most supporters of this game thought it was going to be a revolution of new ideas mixed with the best aspects of many other MMOs. What its looking like now is a complication of all the best cash grabs from freemium games. They only seem to actually care about the game itself or doing things the community desires when the community outrage starts effecting the profit margin. The game itself IS a solid base for a good play experience but they don’t seem very interested in perfecting or expanding on that base. They do seem more interested in using the community as a test group for marketing gimmicks. That can only last for so long.
Oh I agree completely. I was actually set up for zerg/survivability and was trying something new trait wise. I was running to join a zerg from a camp I took when this fight occurred and was not set up at all for 1v1. Its happened before where I’ve run into bunker type guardians or whatever but I’ve never had a stalemate quite like this one. I really wish I had a second chance with my normal build to see if it would have been different.
0/20/0/20/30
curses: weakening shroud and focused rituals
blood:transfusion and deathly invigoration
soul reaping: unyielding blast, near to death, and foot in the grave
My gear atm is about half rabid and half carrion with undead runes as I’m trying to work on a hybrid build bit by bit relacing rabid with carrion.
For utilities I had up signet of spite, well of suffering, and well of corruption, plague, and consume conditions. Normally I run the 30/20/0/0/20 but I had just switched to try this to try to live longer in the zerg and give a tiny bit of support. I also usually don’t run wells but what can I say I was experimenting a bit. In retrospect the one time he ran to reset the fight I should have switched WoC to corrupt boon and maybe even WoS to Blood is power for the single target damage but I was caught up in the fight. My build was no where near suited for the situation as with his vigor boon he was dodging my wells constantly. I was trying to kite with scepter/dagger and pop signet of spite every chance but I couldn’t keep the conditions stacked at all. If I did get him down at all he could cripple me and get enough distance to get healed back to full. When he came at me he wasnt doing much if any damage with shield/sword but would switch to GS and do a bit of dps now and then. In this case I would use a combination of our crap siphons, deathly invigoration, and consume condis to heal back up while kiting with staff marks cc’ing him.
(edited by kailin.4905)
Funny thing, is the war’s are QQ’ing it’s not nearly powerful enough, as our blood fiend heals for more. Even worse if we put poison on them.
Guess just be glad that for once, you can feel like attrition!
You weren’t just CC locked and killed with no counter.
He probably did lol. I’ll tell ya though I was like playing in “the zone” for 20 minutes not to die. Not that the warrior was hitting me very hard but was just wearing out my cooldowns over and over. I’m not really sure what his full spec was but I did notice he had regen, vigor, and a 3rd boon I dont recall seemingly up at all times during the fight. I youtube’d some stuff about it after and found quite a few video’s of warriors tanking on 4-5 ppl so I guess its not that uncommon atm. No wonder there’s warriors everywhere again.
I just fought a heal sig warrior for 20 minutes in wvw…Although it was kinda fun by the end both of us just got bored and walked away. I couldn’t kill him and he couldn’t kill me (although he definitely had the upper hand the whole fight with very little effort). Is there anything you can do against these warriors atm? I run a condi/survival spec and although my damage isn’t great I can usually outlast a tanky spec 1v1. This warrior seemed to shrug off literally everything I threw at him, never dropped below 75%hp even when I unloaded on him, and healed that back to full immediately.. Am I missing something or are they just insanely unbalanced atm.
(edited by kailin.4905)
Also not to mention the impact the particle effect have on fps. Load up fraps and go back and look at it sometime. I dare say the particle effects are the most detrimental issue to performance in the game. For example I was just farming champs with about 3 guild mates and 4-6 other people. I was as holding a steady 90 fps (dunno about my friends baseline fps )and for ALL 3 of the people in my guild we were dropping 10-15 fps when the mob spawned and casting started. This was with less than 10 people on the screen….
So essentially gw2=virtue of justice while standing behind 2 hunters with windserpent pets, in karazan while corner tanking the final boss.
That looks very similar to how my screen in WoW used to look back in the day. I consider gw2 to be far more of what I call a “twitch” game than wow ever was though. By this I mean its less about timing skills and more about dodging and real time twitch reaction. This is what I was looking for when I came to gw2 but now given how badly it performs in practice I see why many other mmo’s don’t do it. Its really kinda a shame too because the art team for gw2 seems very talented but you rarely get to enjoy there work. I was playing in the labyrinth yesterday fighting the lich and it occurred to be I had killed him about 20 times that day and didn’t know what he looked like because I could never see him.
(edited by kailin.4905)
All other issues aside with this game aside…does it just seem to be getting more and more screen cluttered? I know I’m getting old but after having recently been in some other mmo betas I came back to gw2 and was amazed at how messy it felt. I don’t feel like I can ever see whats going on in many circumstances due to the akward ui, spell graphics, bad camera, and just overall clutter. I see people on here talking about looking for cast animations and things like that but I don’t reasonably understand how you can see i minute gesture through all the rest of the mess. Then with the terrible optimization it just seems to make the issues all the worse. Can other people really see these things?
There is literally no reward or game mechanism incentive to roam as a small group and every incentive to run as big of a blob as possible:
1) AoE cap on only 5 targets, which was extended even FURTHER now that blocked and missed attacks count toward that 5 target max;
2) The massive increase in karma/money/XP rewards for PvD activities. Killing people gives almost no reward compared to beating on a door and sitting in a circle. The maximum reward/minute is achieved when the least amount of competition is around;
3) Downed state mechanics and power-rezzing/hard rezzing always gives advantage to the side with greater numbers who can afford to commit people in the fight to rez downed players. Also forces small man groups to sacrifice utilities/health just to finish off a player before he is rezzed, and sometimes even that is impossible to do.
The only reason why you should roam is if you actually enjoy utilizing your player skill to try and come out on top of incredible odds against your favor.
Boy would this game be so much more fun if the average group size was between 5-10 rather than 60+.
Agree with you 100%. The way the wvw in this game is now they might as well just have 2 classes. Melee and ranged because all you do is run with the zerg and spam 1 at various ranges. There is zero reason to play a specific class or roam because it offers less reward and more frustration because you will always inevitably meet the zerg and get rolled over. I dare say at this point even spvp is a more well rounded form of pvp than wvw and that’s saying something being how terrible spvp is in this game.
My main issue is queue as I’m on a t1 server but I am not going to spend more money to transfer from a servery I’ve been on since day 1. I guess the achievements wouldn’t seem as bad if the queues and overall wvw experience wasn’t so poor ATM.
So I’m curious do you have to get the season 1 meta achievement to get anything out of wvw for this season? Some of the achievements seem WAY too grindy. Especially given queue times are often over 2 hours.
I really have a hard time accepting that its somehow okay that our blood traits are currently useless because they are really hard to balance. Many other mmo’s have had professions with life siphon builds done correctly and there’s no reason it cant be done here as well. Its a simple matter of scaling based on weapon speed. Slower weapons get bigger heals, faster weapons have lower heals but you get more hit on target. For condition mancer you adjust a trait in the condition line that sacrifices on hit heals for a small continuous heal on bleed ticks which are already controlled by the cap. Lower overall damage a bit and you have an attrition/DoT class that necro is supposed to be. I still think what bothers me most is everyone seems to think its ok that we have a trait line and skills that for the most part don’t scale hardly at all with a stat in the game. How would guardians feel if anet just decided “you supposed to be tanky” so no matter if you spec for dps or stack dps gear you get .01 percent of the effect from it…because thats basically what is happening with out siphons.
(edited by kailin.4905)
My guess is that it was all just propaganda to make it look like a lot of time was spent honing the traits when it obviously wasn’t. I mean really its hard to buy that they made all these sweeping changes and…oh guess what it came out the exact same as it was before. Geeze what a coincidence!! In all reality they gave us dps we didn’t need or ask for and now don’t know how to fix survivability issues that have been apparent since day one. I can accept the lack of mobility if we were the attrition class they say we are but DS does not equate to great attrition when everyone has better defensive abilities and can outlast you or just reset the fight at will until they win.
Nope I gave up after a few days. Did the meta, can’t get into wvw, so I just went back to LoL. Managed to get a 6300 point champ so I consider it a far more rewarding weekend than I would have spent on here.
Just don’t expect much of an increase and really weigh if the increase is going to be worth the investment. I know personally I dropped a lot of cash to build a whole new intel i7 gaming rig to replace my less than a year old AMD set up (which played every other game fine) and only saw an increase of about 15-20fps. In wvw and bigger pve events I still only get about 20 fps which in my opinion is not acceptable. It does look like you need a newer pc but there are major issues with this engine that will limit what you are going to get for performance even with the best pc setups.
The problem with vampiric and the blood line in general in a “nut shell” is that you as a player have virtually no control over its effectiveness. In any other mmo and in many instances in gw2 you get gear with stats that compliment your build and it increases the effect of the spells that correlate to the build. With the siphon talents you can stack all the + healing you want and will get very little effect (5 to 7 HP per hit). The fact that even exists in this fashion is beyond unacceptable. If power or any other fascet of the game scaled like this heads would roll.
Most of us aren’t even looking for amazing anymore as much as “omg it actually functions at all” when it comes to necromancer. In the case of blood traits I think people are mad because it was for the most part the lone significant change to the class in this patch and it literally does nothing. People are left wondering if changes were even made because its a bit hard to buy it took 4 months to raise one value, lower another, and come out with the same healing we had 4 months ago.
Gotta agree with oldbugga here. The fact that the trait line was even mentioned was just to make it look like they did something in the 4 months they spent on this “balance patch”. Even halloween itself sucks this year as they made it even more of a grind than before. My last real hope for this lost cause was that in the second year more would get done because they would have there “portfolio” of events and could devote more time to other things. Obviously that is not the case and all they are devoted to is time gating and selling RNG to line there pockets. The game has minor redeeming qualities and is an ok option to kill a few hours a month doing a meta achievement here and there. Other than that I have stopped considering this an MMO and will be looking elsewhere for that niche.
You would think when you specifically say “improvements” then your improvements actually make the numbers stay the same or even go down in many cases you would want to say SOMETHING. There was a red post withing an hour of release on the GD thief forum because they had a kittening tooltip error. And at this point I agree. They have no clue about the class, or even the game for that matter. I just came back after about 3 weeks off playing something else and within an hour I was reminded what a mess things are from the optimization of the engine itself right down to to every game mode. I sat there watching the livestream yesterday and honestly found myself thinking what an awkward sloppy mess it was. Its like they don’t even know how to play there own game. Almost felt bad for the guys doing the show because it looked to forced and…ugh I dunno it was just weird.
(edited by kailin.4905)
Big shocker that there’s no red posts in here giving us any idea whats going on.
LOL Arenanet.
This is sPvP-only. Good work chaps! Usual standards of QA.
You have to understand Anets ideals of QA, priority, and balance to understand the changes they make…
balance= a class can farm gold to fast and its costing us money so it needs a nerf
game breaking bug=something is fun and rewarding and we cant monetize it so it has to be fixed asap
meta=what will get the most kids to play and steal there parents credit cards to buy gems
That is through testing on the class npc mobs in the mists. Also as far as the siphoning is concerned so far the tool tips are dead on with what the actually heals are….they are just bad! Oh also it looks like bloodthirst on hit proc is only giving the heal every 3rd autoattack with scepter at least. Still tooltips are broke in most other areas. Specifically I have noticed fear duration ect dont work at all.
I was thinking the same thing as I just tried 15 in blood magic with no other +healing and still had 41/hit on bloodthirst and I think 47 on vampiric. Still why even have a trait line if your not going to let it scale hardly at all? I have a huge problem with the idea that some puppetmaster is sitting behind the scenes deciding that no matter how much of certain stats you have it will have near zero effect based on the skill or the class you are playing.
I’m starting to get the impression this whole revamp was a big ruse. I really just cant fathom how they could invest weeks of testing and equations into the blood traits just to have them give the exact same amount of healing as before. Then have the nerve to try to sell it as if they were actually going to attempt to make them viable. The whole thing feels like a shell game or typical Anet wordplay to justify there ineptitude. Still, I hope i’m wrong and its just bugged atm
The idea is to base life steal on Healing Power, you should see little to no change with general power or condition gear but if you equip clerics or something now you can buff your life steal…. its actually kind of cool. (and they way it should have always been)
Sadly, people have already tested clerics gear with healing power and there isn’t exactly a noticeable difference in the amount of health you gain back as the scaling still sucks.
Just did some testing myself with carrion vs cleric gear. The difference between 300 + healing and 1300 + healing is about 4-6 hp per hit or crit. Exact same as it was before. Also seems to cap at 6 but with scaling so badly its hard to tell. I do not get why they would have even mentioned this change let alone hyped it as a revamp if there was literally zero change to the amount of healing received.
(edited by kailin.4905)
I’m starting to get the impression this whole revamp was a big ruse. I really just cant fathom how they could invest weeks of testing and equations into the blood traits just to have them give the exact same amount of healing as before. Then have the nerve to try to sell it as if they were actually going to attempt to make them viable. The whole thing feels like a shell game or typical Anet wordplay to justify there ineptitude. Still, I hope i’m wrong and its just bugged atm
(edited by kailin.4905)
bloodthirst is either:
a.) broken
b.) they think we are dumb enough that they can announce siphon changes, raise it in one aspect while lowering it in others resulting in the same or lower overall healing.
Well, the Devs seem to think Blood Magic can use some love on Tuesday…
My wells/vulnerability Necro is just looking at that and wondering if it’s her birthday.
Depends on how much “love” our blood magic gets. Still, like you I’m hopeful they find something thats a balanced yet effective. I’ve always liked the idea that necro’s on this game in theory could spec different ways to be a blood mage, plague spreader, or direct damage archetype. Sady in practice only one, arguably two, of those area viable options atm.
oh, and I also forgot long cooldowns. A lot of our utilities are 45-60+ second cooldown which on some feels way to long. Makes you feel like every minute you can melt 1 person or eat a bunch of damage (ie spectral armor+DS), but after that you better hide or your screwed. It did get better a few patches ago when they lowered some of the signets and spectral skills though. Overall the synergy of the class just feels off…
Necro is a strange beast in that it is both op and up at the same time. With full LF and using burst condi’s we can wreck a lot of other professions. However power and MM both still feel lacking due to a lack of any cleave or bad minion ai and pathing. Also you would think with all the hp from our naturally high hp and DS would be a lot of survivability, but when you are focused its really not. We have no invunerability utilities ,no access to vigor, any means of escape, and have to spec deep into a un-beneficial trait line for stability. As a guy with over 1000 hours of play on a condi mancer I would gladly trade some condi burst for them to make ds#2 a short range port and give axe and or dagger a cleave.
oh I expect that. But I would live to see something as to the direction the system will use as far as how it will store your skins. I’m worried that once you transmute it onto something else you will be boned unless you drop a ton of cash on splitters.
I have literally gotten to the point where I fear using my skins and have drastically cut down my play time due to it. I have bought a bunch of bank tabs and they are loaded with skins I bought off the BLTC, and skins from all the events over the last year. They have mentioned a pve wardrobe system and I am so hesitant to use anything because I’m worried if I go and use my skins they will be gone if/when it finally arrives. I already have most of my 80s skinned how I want them anyway so even using any of those I have saved results in me losing something save for the way overpriced splitters. Many of these skins I have invested major amounts of time to get (fused, jade, halloween) and they can not, or at least not easily, be replaced. I really wish that they would let us know more about this wardrobe system. Kinda when we can expect it or sorta how it will work. Right now I’m at the point where I feel like i’m just playing to buy more bank space and store cool things that I only get to look at and wonder when I will be able to use them, and its not making for a very fun experience.
I would but I have no memory leak issues either. I do have a few people in my guild who have been having issues since the teq patch with it though. I don’t want to give details on something I am not getting myself ankitten ot 100% on how is occurring though. Thats a good way to get chewed up on this forum.
Signed-
But not just a 64 bit client. Memory leaks, bad multi core optimization, AMD fix, and down the road maybe even DX11 need to be addressed. 1 year + into a game this amount of issues are unacceptable.With most games people scream bloody murder if they can’t hold a steady 60 fps, on this one people brag when they can hold 40 in WvW and the game don’t look “that” great.
I’ve tried on both AMD and an Intel i7. I was rather disappointed as I thought the i7 would be a huge increase in performance….it wasn’t. Ive accepted the game has serious issues that need to be addressed and have stopped trying to make something work better that never will.
I agree. Dungeon itself was good minor glitches aside. The reward is meh for the time but that’s all dungeons in general right now. Overall I give the patch a solid 7/10. Dungeon is fun, patch is a bit light other than that but I guess we are getting a few this month.
Working as intended. This is how wvw will be conducted by now on. Randomly the scores with be switched depending on who has the bloodlust buff =)
I love all these posts about “well anet just upgrade your hardware” I’m so glad you guys are offering to pay for it.
Actually isn’t it kind of expected that a share of the money from box sales and more-so in game purchases will go towards served upgrades and maintenance. So in a way we are offering to pay for it. Still it seems to me like they started developing this game 6 years ago now and never really kept up with the current tech during that time resulting in a game that is using outdated tech at release. I mean really….DX9. Terrible thread optimization for multiple cores. Even the amount of culling at release makes me wonder if it was put there just because they knew how bad the engine performed and had to find a way to pad fps so they wouldn’t be torn apart by the community. They had to know that if you make content putting hundreds of ppl in an area pvping that players would kinda wanna see who was killing them. I know when they started answering questions with “our server/engine can’t handle the calculations for that” it threw up a huge red flag for me. A lot of the things they are saying this about are standard fare in mmos of this generation. Even in the f2p ones. I do think the devs themselves are REALLY trying to work with what they are give, but the corporate machine has a lot of influence in how this is playing out.
(edited by kailin.4905)
Now I don’t think a completely uncapped AOE is a great idea as it will just lead to another issue (and this is coming from a necro main). But I have a real issue with the idea that because anets servers and engine are so outdated that we are just supposed to accept that zerg play is the lesser of two evils. So your telling me that individually tracking conditions and an aoe cap of anything more than 5 will be too much stress on the system. But hey…lets keep making content in every facet of the game the shoehorns upwards of 300ppl into a small area….Then expect them to make precise movement and recognize spell cast animations with 150 spell effects brighter than the desert sun all firing off at once. All while getting at best 20 fps because the engine can’t handle the basic gameplay it was apparently designed to incorporate? Sorry I really don’t follow the logic behind any of this.
So nobody with an AMD procesor should be able to play at a reasonable level. Or People with Nvidia cards because those have issues. But some Radeon cards have issues too. And multiple cores aren’t a help. And if your i7 isnt from last week gl….Starting to see the issue here? This is a B2P MMO not Crysis3 . The point of these games is to cast a wide net and use there massive audience to get funds through cash shop ect. to put back into the game. If that’s your bread and butter don’t these limitations hurt your business?
I’m no software programmer, but I have been a PC gamer for over a decade and have done my fair share of building, tweaking, and optimizing. Still on two different good PC’s I’ve been unable to get the expected performance from GW2. I have several friends who are hardcore PC gamers, one of which who works in the gaming industry. On multiple occasions I have had them helping me try to find my bottleneck or help me get a better play experience in GW2. Every time it has resulted in them throwing up there arms in disgust and ranting multiple phrases that would just be turned to the word “kitten” on this forum. Now I’m not on here to compare rig or to get berated because I don’t have a pc that came out last week. What I will say is that for a game that by its very nature is aimed to be more casual it does not make sense to me that this level of pc optimization knowledge is required to play it. Most of the alleged target audience put in the game, hit auto detect, and want to have a good play experience. If they can’t they may turn things down a bit. If that don’t work they go play something that will work better. In my case I buy a lot of games. I’m a family of 4 gamers with 3 newer PC’s and have bought most every AAA title this year. Everything plays excellent on all 3 computers except GW2. (in all fairness I’ve only tested on 2 of them because the other one is the exact same) Specs and tech aside that to me is enough to feel that there is an issue. I don’t think my performance is awful…I just don’t feel this game performs as it should for what it is. I also know that there are many more in the same boat as me and it makes me question the idea of making more and more large group open world content that does not play well with the given game engine.
in reply to Fursey’s comment: I have the same experience were the fps difference between lowest setting and everything maxed is usually about 5fps. Maybe 10 tops… I’ve unparked cores and the whole lot with very minimal improvement.
(edited by kailin.4905)
This is at medium settings. The game auto detects at ultra and I turned it down medium with post processing off and shadows and reflections to low. It gives me about 5 fps more than the auto detect settings. On my AMD I have most everything on low and can’t even get the 20-25 fps I get on my i7. This is during bigger zerges. Normal gameplay areas I get 70-100 fps.
Interesting. I normally run around 80 FPS in normal gameplay and drop to 40-60 FPS in big zergs with everything at high (except shadows at medium + post-processing off).
I don’t believe you for one second.
Firstly, you are using a nvidia card on a 60-75Hz maximum monitor refresh. IF you are getting 80 FPS, then you are first up not using Adaptive V-Sync which is already the wrong thing to do. If you are running with vsync off and sustaining 80 FPS, then you should obviously tuen vsync on. Alternatively, if you are running in windowed mode this will instantly cut ~10-15% performance further indicating you will not sustain 60 FPS.
Next up, a couple months ago I moved from a Core i7-940 + GTX580 to a brand new Core i7-4770 + GTX780. The performance increase is just about where I expected it to be, and it still does not sustain 60 FPS in any large fight such as Tequatl.
1) Neither system auto-detects as Ultra in any setting.
2) Both systems test comparably in all other games with equal specification PC’s.
3) My new system still averages around 25 FPS on High for most of the Tequatl fight with high player numbers, with player count upped to Highest. Sure if I look at the ground/sky I get 60 FPS – this is not an indicator of performance.If you turned post-processing and shadows off/down then obviously you aren’t running with the graphics set to high. So if you want to retain any viable belief in your systems performance, you need to submit a video preferably with FRAPS enabled and showing all detail settings used. Alternatively, keep the F11 settings window up so we can see current FPS.
Until then, in my opinion you are just trolling.
I think you got a quote and reply combined there and its leading to some confusion. . I’m the guy saying I get 20-25 in big events on my machine just like you . The person replying was saying he gets 40-60. I can get 70-100 in certain areas but like you said its in desolate areas in graphically un-intensive situations. Then again maybe you weren’t directing your comment at me, but I assure you i’m not lying about my 20-25fps performance in zerg’s.
(edited by kailin.4905)
Same here
Powerful rig, but when the zerg comes, bbye performance.
I got used to play with everything set to low now.
Why?
Most importantly, because map loads a LOT faster while having your settings on low.
Fewer effects on screen so I can actually see what is going on.All the people saying “it is your computer that s u x”, please, stop using lowest settings and then come here to troll.
When I7 @ 4.4 Ghz @ max 45 celsius on load, 16 GB RAM and SSD is not enough, blame your computer. Right…
Kailin, why on earth would you change an i7 for AMD 8350?
AMD is known to cheat benchmarks.
In real life usage, AMD is no match for i7
Didn’t switch, just happened to get a deal on another pc so I have both. I mainly have the AMD for the kids to play on. Just wanted to try GW2 on a different machine.