Guild Wars 2

I get it ArenaNet, you want to achieve the impossible and appease both groups, those who want a gear treadmill and those who do not. This is how you do it.

The full stats bonuses of ascended gear only work in dungeons and revert to exotic stats in the rest of the game (normal zones, WvW, etc). This way, the dungeon/gear grinders can get their “phat lewtz” progression and the rest of us don’t have to worry about it and can continue to enjoy the game how we want.

To clarify my reasoning a bit, the folks who prefer gear progression always claim that the gear is there to help them with harder dungeons. So make the new gear only apply the stat boosts in the dungeons and leave the rest of the game alone.

Velron.3729:

“Dip in player numbers doesn’t effect GW2 the same way it does other games because there is no subscription fee. In other words, if players stop playing the game, GW2 is not losing any money.
GW2 makes money from the cash shop and box sales. If the issue was revenue loss, there would’ve been a huge push of cash shop items.”

Actually there was. Halloween event, the amount of gems sold to open those black lion chests to try to get the skins was insane.

Now I’m not saying its the reason for anything, but there was a huge cash shop item push, incredibly huge.

It was a temporary thing though, not exactly a push. Besides it backfired on them. I highly doubt that anyone in their right mind would blindly purchase keys until the drop rate of these skins is revealed.

I was mostly talking about permanent additions to the cash shop that would continue making them money all the time.

Khaun.4321:

Besides, the mesmer portal and necro worm pet can be used to blink through and across ANYthing so I’m really confused about the limitation on most other movement skills.

And yet, I can’t even cross a tiny gap with “Infiltrator Arrow.” Infiltrator Arrow doesn’t let me infiltrate anything… Go figure.

rtommaso.3120:

krookie.6378:

rtommaso.3120:

Dude, the game has a level based item system and very few content. So yes, they will be adding armor because there will be nothing else to do other then grinding, at least until they release some expansion.

The game actually has a lot of content. Each zone has it’s own story, secrets, puzzles and big bosses. The problem is that ArenaNet decided to make Orr the only place where you can get lvl 80 gear and mats and the most karma. So people naturally go there and pretty much ignore the rest of the game unless they are leveling alts.

Armor with higher stats is not more content. They could’ve achieved the same effect by adding more dungeon specific exotics.

There are people who finished ALL content in less then 3 months. So no, there isnt a lot of content. You wouldnt be able to finish Prophecies content in 3 months (I dont mean the missions, I mean mission + quests + exploration + etc.).

There are people who will finish any content faster than the majority of the player base. They are called “content locusts.” It’s impossible to create enough content for them. No matter what you do, they will consume it at an alarming rate.

These same people will probably be done with the new dungeon and the new gear by the time the weekend event is over.

rtommaso.3120:

Dude, the game has a level based item system and very few content. So yes, they will be adding armor because there will be nothing else to do other then grinding, at least until they release some expansion.

The game actually has a lot of content. Each zone has it’s own story, secrets, puzzles and big bosses. The problem is that ArenaNet decided to make Orr the only place where you can get lvl 80 gear and mats and the most karma. So people naturally go there and pretty much ignore the rest of the game unless they are leveling alts.

Armor with higher stats is not more content. They could’ve achieved the same effect by adding more dungeon specific exotics.

saurus.8290:

you guys didnt played gw1

agony system was in gw1 and that was released 2 years before lotro

lotro tried to copy it and failed becouse different game mechanics

Infusion in GW1 was not even close to being the same. It was part of the main story and a painless one at that. You didn’t have to grind for it or anything of the sort. It was basically killing one mob, bringing an item it drops to an NPC and you’re done.

Moreover, heroes and pets in GW1 were always infused so you can potentially beat the whole campaign without even getting infused yourself.

Most importantly, Infusion in GW1 did not require a a new set of armor. It was automatically applied to your existing armor.

Urxx.6840:

krookie.6378:

The drops will more than likely depend on a RNG, just like they do everywhere else in the game. In other words, you can do the dungeon a few times and never get drops usable by your class or spec, thus locking you out of the content until you get lucky.

And anyway, why introduce a new tier making exotics obsolete altogether, after they have led us to believe exotics were the most powerful items in the game stat-wise?

Why not just add infusion slots to existing max level exotics and legendaries, either automatically or via quest/event/mission/whatever?

It boggles my mind. Introducing infusion to exotics would’ve accomplished the same thing as this ascended gear and maintained the horizontal progression scheme.

I don’t buy that “fill the gap between exotics and legendaries” nonsense either. There is no gap. Legendaries require a huge grind to get and that grind is not going to change if they add an item that requires less grind than legendaries but more grind than exotics.

I don’t mind a higher tier if it’s added with an expansion but with a content patch 3 months after the game’s release? Especially when certain slots don’t even have exotic or even rare items?

Magiofdeath.2745:

Where was all this outcry of 150 pages when skill points, temple of balthazar, etc was practically continually bugged for over a month after release? I don’t get this community – there was game breaking bugs in the game for over a month after release and there wasn’t a single thread that was 150 pages worth of people complaining about that (I did complain about that because it was a problem) and now they add a new tier of gear and there’s a thread that has amassed 150 pages of outcry. This new tier seems infinitesimal to the game breaking bugs the game had for a month, and which are still present to some small degree with PS, etc. I just don’t get it – can someone please explain that to me?

What you’re describing are bugs and while they are annoying, most people agree that they are inevitable, especially in the first few months after release.

This is different. This is a deliberate change to the game, contrary to the whole philosophy than made a lot of people purchase GW2 in the first place.

tkalamba.2541:

Kriton.5402:

tkalamba.2541:

You can do all 9 portions of the dungeon without encountering Agony, so no it does not lock you out of content. If you wish to proceed into the higher difficulty runs, which are still the same 9 sections, then Agony will play a role, but you can still do the 9 sections.

Tell me, from a designer point of view, why do you need better gear to get a higher difficulty? I am lost.

You dont need it to get to a higher difficulty, but it helps you progress. It drops in the very same dungeon, so I fail to see how it still stops you from experiencing the content. They provide you with the very tools in the very dungeon you are to progress in, which may I add, is fully optional.

The drops will more than likely depend on a RNG, just like they do everywhere else in the game. In other words, you can do the dungeon a few times and never get drops usable by your class or spec, thus locking you out of the content until you get lucky.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

mhe most people dont care and are looking forward to it

this 140 some odd page’s is nothing more than a solect few bicering back and forth

Who are these “most people” you’re speaking of? I wish people would stop using this phrase, I’m guilty of it too at times.

You’re not speaking for most people, you’re speaking for yourself and assuming that most people agree with you.

Michael.6849:

Come on Anet, give us a decent answer to our questions, not some deliberately vague answers that just raise more questions, what is this, “Lost” ?

The only way we’ll get a real answer is to wait until Friday when this new change goes in effect.

No it will not make me play more. More than likely it will make me play less and eventually quit. I’ve never enjoyed gear treadmill games. I just don’t find constantly chasing a higher number to remain relevant in the game entertaining.

I also tend to take long breaks from MMOs and with GW1 I was able to dive right back into the game upon returning. With games like WoW I had to spend days and even weeks farming for gear just to catch up to the rest of the server before I can participate in the newest content.

If I have to play catch up in GW2 every time I decide to take a few months break, I simply will not play. I want to play the game, not chase numbers.

Orr zones are some of the most frustrating zones in the game. Not because of the difficulty but because of all the annoying mobs and their stuns, pulls, knockdowns, cripples, etc.

Unfortunately Orr is the only place where level 80 gear and mats are, so people go there to farm.

Basically my point is that Orr needs to be redesigned from the ground up to make it less frustrating, which would entice more people to do other things rather than farming Plinx or Shelter Camp with a huge mob of players.

Hawkmoon.5849:

“it’s part of the genre and its a basic function that MMO’s do.” Based on what? WoW? Oh wait, you say it’s not based on WoW… okay, then… your own personal ideal of what the MMO genre is?

The fact is, the lack of gear grind was a selling point of the game. The Devs made interviews and videos about it- it’s been quoted dozens of times on multiple posts. What’s fail is players bringing preconceptualized ideas from other MMOs and trying to put a round peg into a square hole.

This is a huge problem for this genre. Too many people were introduced to MMOs with WoW so their ideal vision for MMOs is WoW. So they want all MMOs to be like WoW.

Lutharr.1035:

krookie.6378:

Lutharr.1035:

krookie.6378:

Lutharr.1035:

who cares if its an illusion if you still find it entertaining.

I didnt sit through the Avengers with my son saying “its an illusion so ya cant enjoy it”

I don’t find it entertaining.

well when you invest millions of dollars of your own money into a game feel free to only put in what you personally find entertaining.

Do you know what customer feedback is?

yes but it works both ways. Not just YOUR opinon that matters in the world.

So you’re giving me feedback on my feedback?

Thank you!

Lutharr.1035:

krookie.6378:

Lutharr.1035:

who cares if its an illusion if you still find it entertaining.

I didnt sit through the Avengers with my son saying “its an illusion so ya cant enjoy it”

I don’t find it entertaining.

well when you invest millions of dollars of your own money into a game feel free to only put in what you personally find entertaining.

Do you know what customer feedback is?

Lutharr.1035:

who cares if its an illusion if you still find it entertaining.

I didnt sit through the Avengers with my son saying “its an illusion so ya cant enjoy it”

I don’t find it entertaining. I’ve been chasing numbers in virtually every single MMO to date. It’s gotten old already. GW1 was different and I played it for years because of it. GW2 was different too, until this new patch at least.

Is it really progression if the future content is going to be designed with higher stats in mind?

If a mob has 100hp and you do 10hp damage to it now and after the whole ascended thing you do 11hp damage but the mob has 110hp, are you really doing more damage? Is that really progression?

It’s basically a hamster wheel, an illusion of getting stronger without actually getting stronger.

Progression can be done in so many different ways. Progression via higher numbers is just lazy design, imo.

ArcTheFallen.7682:

Fungalfoot.7213:

They already did cave in to the vocal minority by introducing this form of progression.

We’re just asking for them to rethink the decision. This isn’t WoW and it really shouldn’t be.

Hm, this isn’t Gw1 either. Neutral party here though.

No it’s not GW1 but it was advertised to follow a similar philosophy when it comes to gear.

UnderdogSMO.9428:

But all infusions do is negate agony

That is not true at all. There are 3 infusion slots: defensive, offensive and omni.

The blog post only used agony defense as an example of how infusions work. There are still offensive slots and omni slots and more than likely other uses for defensive slots.

I honestly don’t even get the point of adding a new tier, especially this early. I mean, sure you get higher stats with this new gear and it may seem like your character is stronger but the future content is bound to be designed with these higher stats in mind. Meaning that you won’t actually be stronger.

It’s basically adding gear progression for the sake of having gear progression.

Gurpsmeister.9068:

Snerf.1650:

Gurpsmeister.9068:

WHOA calm down now. It’s not a power creep, it’s the insertion of a new tier to gap the ease of obtaining exotics and the difficulty of obtaining legendary stuff. If what they say is true than great, our tiers our now flushed out and we won’t have to see anymore.

I suspect they’ll make much use out of those infusion slots over time but whatever. Let this thread die now..pls?

But it is a power creep. There is currently no gap. Legendaries are the same stat-wise as exotics. This only bridges the gap if there is a gap. There is currently no gap.

If ascended gear has the same stats as exotics, but bridges the skin gap to legendary, that is a totally different animal. And it’s one that would make a lot of us very happy.

That’s why people are continuing this thread.

The gap isn’t in stats, it’s in difficulty to obtain. Exotics rain from the skies and are super easy to get. Legendarys are ridiculously difficult to get, there’s no middle ground. that’s what the Ascended stuff is supposed to be, something in between to allow a sense of accomplishment.

You know what I felt when I got all exotics? Nothing, it came so fast and so easy I felt no pride in being full orange. I’m hoping Ascended will allow me to feel a lil’ swell of WOOT as I work towards my legendary.

So yes, there was a gap. It’s addressed now and post go bai bai now?

First of all, not all exotics are easy to get. Some are rarer than others and cost quite a lot.

Second, their answer to a grind associated with getting legendaries is to add a lesser grind for another armor tier. It still doesn’t address the fact that legendaries are still an impressive grind.

They are basically adding grind to combat grind, instead of lessening the grind.

Dungin.2983:

This patch doesn’t fix that, but it gets people playing together again, and in a new shiny area.

So without ascended items and infusion people wouldn’t play together again, and in a new shiny area?

Fingal Hoy.4129:

Mitsu.5193:

So much nonsense, they are adding a tier that to be completed requeres MORE grind than exotics but LESS grind the legendarys, sry but i dont sea a treadmill here.

I agree with you 100% there, exotic set are really easy to obtain and legendary really hard, there’s not a problem in my mind in adding an intermediate tier that will appeal, I think to most people.

Legendaries require a huge grind to get. So their answer to this grind is to add more grind?

Gurpsmeister.9068:

Okay okay okay, we got some confirmation about how the system is going to work. It’s a gap closer between exotic and legendary not a treadmill starter. The gate mechanic is still there and that sucks BUT if it stays in that dungeon then it’s not really a big deal is it?

Can we let this beast die now? I’m ashamed I started this thread to begin with..

There was no gap between exotics and legendaries. Legendaries were exotics with a unique skin. The stats were the same.

The gap between exotics and legendaries will be introduced with this patch when legendaries get bumped in tier to be on par with ascended weapons.

tldr: this patch introduces the gap.

Hunterdan.4921:

arcaneclarity.5283:

There was no gap between legendary and exotic.

There was a gap in the ability to obtain them. As in, the difficulty of obtaining a piece of exotic gear and the difficulty in obtaining a piece of legendary gear was massive.

I’ve basically putts’d my way to 80, and obtained a few exotics here and there along the way with minimal effort. The difficulty of obtaining a legendary is so great, I would likely never attempt to get one. I now have something that I will probably enjoy working towards, even through it has a minimal stat increase.

There is no reason to add a whole new tier set if legendaries were hard to get. They will still be just as hard to get, even if you have all ascended gear.

Xilo.9567:

As long as what he said in his post is true. Its just a barrier between exotic and legendary. If they do not intend to keep introducing new tiers of gear then its not a problem. And they have still stuck to their manifesto.

Just one more thing needs to happen. Make it available through lots of karma, and WvWvW.

What barrier? Exotics and legendaries have the same stats. Any barrier between exotics and legendaries will be created once this patch goes live.

MrDmajor.7084:

I can only speak for myself. I’m not a jaded professional mmorpg player.

I’m an Engineer, I pretty much play it exclusively.

I purposely did not go after Legendary Weapons (Rifle, 2 Pistols, and Shield) because I pretty much felt like their look (especially the pistols and rifles) were ugly, and silly.

Am I correct in assuming that because I avoided these ugly weapons, that I missed out on having “the most powerful” weapon I could have in my inventory? That sort of bothers me. Maybe I’m mistaken.

From what I gathered you did miss out. Legendary weapons will be upgraded to be on par with ascended weapons. However, since they are only introducing jewelery and back ascended items in this patch, those with legendaries will have the best stat weapons in the game, until the ascended weapons patch.

Unless they will not upgrade legendaries to ascended tier until they actually release the patch with the new weapons.

Chris Whiteside.6102:

snip

I appreciate a response and I’m happy that you guys are committed to bringing us more content but can you please explain the reasoning behind the introduction of a new item tier so soon, while a lot of people are still gearing up with exotics?

Also, why do you guys think that this infusion agony resist will work in GW2 when similar mechanics were not very popular with players in other games, like WoW and LoTRO?

camoflaugz.5031:

Fungalfoot.7213:

camoflaugz.5031:

Because those players left the game… you don’t notice the difference between launch date and now?

No, Tarnished Coast is constantly full. I’ve had a friend trying to get in for weeks with no luck.

Is this where we’re supposed to pretend that the game was dying because it didn’t have WoW progression?

Lots of people were complaining before that there wasn’t much end game and they left. Im on jade quarry which is usually a full server but I dont know how accurate that is. I sometimes play with an alt and its pretty painful not seeing anybody in the lower level zones. Its not even about Wow, people keep saying wow this wow that.. Its just the MMO genre itself, there is already a standard in what people expect in MMO’s and the truth is at this point the game feels handicapped in a way that you cant go any further in it. Handicapping in an MMO is pretty fail in todays standards imo. You can get away with that in a single player rgp but not an MMO. This is 2012 now MMO’s should be getting bigger and bigger. Handicapping players is not the solution. jmo

I’m on JQ too and I run into people all the time while leveling alts. Some zones will always be less popular though. Even during the initial leveling rush there were certain zones, like Sparkfly Fen, which were less popular than others.

In order to deal with zone population, Anet needs to simply add incentives for max level characters to revisit lower level zones. As it is right now, the best drops and rewards are in Orr and that’s where most 80s play. Adding similar rewards to other zones will spread out the population. Personally I’m sick of Orr but I have to go there to farm gold and karma.

I really have to question the reasoning behind introducing a new item tier so soon. A lot of people don’t even have a full exotic set yet. For example, I just got my character finally set up with gear and sigils I wanted yesterday.

I wouldn’t particularly mind a higher item tier with an expansion but 3 months after the game launched, when a lot of people are still working on their sets?

Someone mentioned “content locusts” in this topic and I couldn’t agree more. You can never add enough content to appease these people. No matter how much content you create, it will be devoured by the WoW refugees within days. Then the forum will be subjected to yet another round of “There is no end-game” and “There is no content” posts. Then these people will return to WoW, because that’s really the only game they like, even if they claim to hate it, while the rest of us will be stuck with something we never really wanted or asked for.

EverythingXen.1835:

krookie.6378:

EverythingXen.1835:

I didnt say it wasnt a lot of people. I said it wasnt enough.

I agree the lack of anything worthwhile on the cash shop isnt helping.

The gear progression is a temporary fix though. They may get an influx of new players from WoW but those players tend to go back when they finished devouring the content. I mean there is a reason why no other game is able to compete with WoW. If they offer the same type of game play as the original, people would try it and then go back. The original is always better.

A more fleshed out cash shop could solve any financial issues. This solution only really serves to alienate people who love GW2 specifically because it’s not a gear treadmill.

They may tend to go back, but some may stay. You need BOTH communities. The “no treadmills” arent financially viable, and as you said, the “treadmills” have other options when they feel like their time is wasted in GW2. The “treadmills” need to feel like their time isnt wasted. They arent mutally exclusive unless you want them to be.

Also, gear treadmill != gameplay. Just adding another teir of gear does not, in any way, make GW2 play like WoW.

The treadmills exist in other MMO to keep people playing and paying the subscription fees. There is no financial viability for a gear treadmill when there are no subscription fees. GW2 needs people to spend money on the cash shop and a gear grind does nothing to help with that.

You cannot possibly cater to every single gamer. Especially when the communities in question are polar opposites. You cannot cater to gear grinders and those who don’t want a gear grind. It’s just impossible. Both communities want completely different things. In other words, you either create the game for one or the other, not for both.

EverythingXen.1835:

I didnt say it wasnt a lot of people. I said it wasnt enough.

I agree the lack of anything worthwhile on the cash shop isnt helping.

The gear progression is a temporary fix though. They may get an influx of new players from WoW but those players tend to go back when they finished devouring the content. I mean there is a reason why no other game is able to compete with WoW. If they offer the same type of game play as the original, people would try it and then go back. The original is always better.

A more fleshed out cash shop could solve any financial issues. This solution only really serves to alienate people who love GW2 specifically because it’s not a gear treadmill.

EverythingXen.1835:

Not enough to keep a game this size running, or this wouldnt be happening.

That’s nonsense. Most of the servers are either Full or High. I see people everywhere, even in the newbie zones. If the issue was money, they could’ve just added some skins to the cash shop and call it a day. I can tell you for a fact that I personally would buy skins.

I do refuse to participate in gambling for skins with BLTC chests though.

camoflaugz.5031:

No I’m not trolling, but I shouldn’t say nothing is fun, that was wrong, I take that back. I would say at end game I need something to keep me going. This is an MMO, thats what MMO players look for at the end. If i didn’t want to do that I would just play a single player console game or something. As of now I don’t really log on that much because I’m waiting for the patch.

Speak for yourself. This is not what MMO players look for at the end. This is what you and those trained by WoW’s Skinner box look for at the end. Those of us who played UO and GW1 do not look for a gear grind at the end.

Mythilas.7325:

I don’t feel anywhere near the hatred for this move that some of you are displaying, but I do have some reservations about it.

From today’s post by Murdock:

“By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.”

Doesn’t the above statement seem a little contradictory? Even reading it in context, it doesn’t make sense to me. You create new mechanics that can only be dealt with by “gear progression” and then say that this creates a sense of personal progression without creating a gear treadmill. O_o

Am I missing something?

It is contradictory. They are adding a gear treadmill to combat the gear treadmill. It’s PR speak.

jboynton.7894:

Uh…yes….this change in design philosophy means EXACTLY that. They’re unhappy with the revenue being brought in by their current player base and are attempting to change the game into a more commonly recognized model that was “perfected” and take to epic proportions by Blizzard.

This is a serious risk on Anet’s part as people who enjoy vertical gear progression and are already established in a game are not going to be drawn away to play this one. In doing so, Anet also risks alienating it’s existing player base in the hopes of attracting the above. It is a risky gamble that has yet to work for any MMO to-date.

Agreed. And when this new model fails to bring in sufficient amount of players? Or rather it’ll bring in the WoW fanbois, who will devour the content and go back to raiding pandas in 3 weeks. What happens then? Are they going to be switching the focus of the game every 3-4 months in order to bring new players from other games?

Maybe they should try to attract Call of Duty players next? Turn GW2 into an FPS? Or covert the whole game into DotA in an attempt to grab some of that LoL money?

The game already had a very well established fanbase, some being attracted to this game because of the lack of gear progression. This new change just serves to alienate the fans in a cheap attempt to grab some WoW players.

Shuguard.7125:

Because maybe it’s easier to create new armor/ jewelry with some slight differences than go through all the previous armor files and change those? Seriously if they didn’t do something slightly new lots of people would complain. I will cry foul if a real gear treadmill starts, but 5 stats is nothing. It just shows a small sign that “hey we’d like you to try for something new and there’s a tiny incentive in it.” Also nothing is trivialized, what if the ascended items only have maybe 1 or 2 set stats that someone else might want differently. Say if it only offered a better knights and carrion, but someone wants berserker. We don’t have enough information to be boo hooing over new stuff yet. Lets just wait and see what happens then change the bad stuff if it goes wrong. Anet reads feedback.
Edit: heck it’s only jewelry so far, the only people “hurt” by this would be jewelers, since you can’t get dungeon jewelry(other than rare drop).

So wait, you’re honestly trying to tell me that it’s easier to create and balance brand new items, including the art assets, rather than just adding an additional slot to an existing item?

Right now it’s only jewelery and back slots but they do plan to release new items for all slots. Going by their blog post, they intent to continue with gear progression which is basically a fancy way of saying “gear treadmill.”

Fallen Angel.5092:

krookie.6378:

This infusion thing reminds me of WoW’s standard dungeons vs heroic versions. You can do most standard instances virtually naked while heroics require certain gear level. Are heroics content? They most certainly are. The major difference is that WoW revolves around a gear treadmill so gear gated content is basically part of the overall philosophy. GW2 does not revolve around a gear grind, yet, and up until this new patch you have access to all content, provided that you’re a competent player.

The artificial barriers that other players put on each other to make their gaming time easier is not the same as a forced barrier by the game. With player created barriers you can still do the content with other players, with a dev enforced barrier you cannot.

Indeed, it is content, but because it is a gear progression game, and awards higher quality gear, it is a necessity. Now, if the further difficulty level of increasing Agony is like a Challenge Mode Dungeon, and only rewards the same thing you can get in a level 0 run, there is no problem. It’s all for kitten flexing rights, nothing more. It’s the reason people do challenge modes in WoW. Bragging rights or some cool rewards. Maybe at Fractals 100 you get a sweet helmet to transmute or a cool Greatsword skin. We don’t know what those rewards will be. I sincerely doubt it’s going to be another tier of gear, so I can only speculate it to be something cosmetic or slightly more loot drops. More does not always necessarily mean better rewards

I think that this new agony con and infusion only on ascended items thing is to simply justify their switch to gear progression and make new gear desirable.

They could’ve achieved the same challenge mode dungeon by simply adding infusion slots to current exotics and legendaries. Or requiring some other variable, without adding slightly better gear.

Shuguard.7125:

from the front page there’s only a 5 stat difference per stat and 3% magic find(for those two rings). Not much of a gear treadmill. I’d be worried a bit if it was 3% crit damage on increase, But this seems harmless.

Why add a new item tier at all then if it’s so negligible? Why not just add infusion slots to current exotics and legendaries and call it a day?

They are switching the design of the game to be driven by gear progression and they needed to start somewhere. Obviously the first stat increase is going to be small otherwise it’ll trivialize the current content. Eventually, though, if they continue with gear progression, the current content will become pointless.

Cousland.2187:

Dogblaster.6713:

whats next ? ..

sPvP gear progression incomming in december

And mounts! Lots and lots of mounts!

They better be huge and flying or I’m not interested. I need something to block the LA banker.

Fallen Angel.5092:

Please tell me where it says the entirety of the dungeon (9 wings) can NOT be completed without the Ascended gear. I will definitely agree that the harder playthroughs will require it, be it 2nd time, 3rd, or 30th.

Seeing as we will not be starting immediately with Ascended gear, I am willing to bet there will be quite a few runs through it on X, Y, or Z difficulty until your group has enough Ascended pieces to continue on to the harder difficulties of the exact same dungeon with higher tuned numbers (higher Agony damage most likely).

There is nothing in the blog regarding the, I’ll call it “Dungeon Level 0”, Fractals being 100% unbeatable without a single piece of Ascended gear. I’m going to be sticking with my hopes that this infinitely scaling dungeon can be completed on at least 1 level of difficulty without a single piece of Ascended, anything after that is just for personal, guild, or server-wide boasting, nothing more. This is unless you get better rewards for doing a Fractals 10 run vs Fractals 2 run. Better does not always mean more, so more drops of loot would be fine.

This is largely speculation on my part, but I’m more the cup is half full type most of the time.

To the person who said a better example would have been Arrah. Yeah, but does it make it any less true? Artificial gear gating already being present by people who want to maximize their efficiency at completing a challenge already exists. Nothing is going to change that.

I don’t mind this at all. So long as you are able to complete this new dungeon and any dungeons to come later on at least ONE difficulty level with your other gear levels, this Exotic gear 2.0 won’t matter other than to add a little fluff to those who really wanted it.

This infusion thing reminds me of WoW’s standard dungeons vs heroic versions. You can do most standard instances virtually naked while heroics require certain gear level. Are heroics content? They most certainly are. The major difference is that WoW revolves around a gear treadmill so gear gated content is basically part of the overall philosophy. GW2 does not revolve around a gear grind, yet, and up until this new patch you have access to all content, provided that you’re a competent player.

The artificial barriers that other players put on each other to make their gaming time easier is not the same as a forced barrier by the game. With player created barriers you can still do the content with other players, with a dev enforced barrier you cannot.

Requiring agony resist in order to do higher difficulty is basically gating. it’s not a physical wall that opens in 4 weeks but it’s a wall nevertheless. A wall that opens as soon as you get a certain amount of agony resist.

Some people don’t consider it to be but higher difficulty is still content. With this new update, if your goal is beating the highest difficulty, you must have the new gear. If you don’t have it, you simply do not have access to this content.

It’s also counter to the whole design of this game. Right now, as a level 80, you pretty much have equal access to any portion of the game. After the update you will not.

BTW, resist stacking was one of the worst aspects of those MMOs. I thought that I was done with that “must have at least 500 fire resist” nonsense. I guess not.

zaxziakohl.5243:

Depending on how well you play, with infusions protecting you against agony you may not be able to complete higher levels. Skill is still involved. Agony is a weeding mechanic for both exotic players and ascended players, the only difference is where you get weeded out.

That’s basically gating. With this gear, only your skill will matter. Without the gear your skill doesn’t matter.

It is gated content. Difficulty is still content and you won’t have access to that difficulty unless you have certain gear.

Your skill as a player does not play any role in this situation. Without infusions protecting you against agony, you will not be able to complete higher difficulty levels.

Yes to new content.
Yes to new cosmetic gear.
No to new gear tier.
No to gated content through required infusions.

masterludda.3476:

Alexander Dragonfang.1759:

masterludda.3476:

Good job Anet,sounds like a good patch.

Sits back and enjoys his popcorn while watching all the QQ.

Seems alot of folks need a few boxes of kleenex’s

And this is for what they betrayed us.

In 6 months this forum will be just like wow`s. Full of grindkittens saying:

“im betterz than youz cuz i havez a +7 acedant lot of dmg really lot dmg much more dmg than you and that makez me betterz cause i do a lot of fractalz (or whatever they got in the future)”.

This is sad, seriusly sad, most people say this thread is QQ, and yes it is, this game was the hope and shelter for the many of us that didn`t want to see which i described above, and everything is falling appart.

But half the people here don’t relize your not forced into grind x gear.It’s not like it’s gamebreaking, how i see this as is a extra grind for those more hardcore players.If folks don’t like grinding for it THEN DON’T! It’s not like its goin to affect 99% of the old games content,Meh one can farm/grind dungeons in blue gear easy.

You need this new gear for new content. You need agony defense which will only be available through infusions, which are only available on the new gear.

This is completely opposite to how GW2 was prior to this point. Right now, you can do any dungeon or PvE content if you’re a competent player. In the new instance your skill will not be enough. You’ll need specific items to get past a certain point.

Fallen Angel.5092:

Talloc.6835:

LF2M Fractal, link all Ascension gear or NO INVITE

LF2M AC, link all Exotic gear or NO INVITE.

See what I did there?

So long as ArenaNet doesn’t make the dungeons impossible to do without Ascended gear, but can be done in your Greens and Blues, there is no problem.

To be speculative of the blog post, sine people are choosing to take the OMG TREADMILL path, I’m going to speculate on the Deeper through the Fractals path. What I read into this was its infinitely scaling difficulty, not the first “tier” of the dungeon. I could be wrong, but the lot whining and wailing about a gear treadmill (that already exists in the form of fine, masterwork, rare, and exotic) could be wrong as well.

The doom and gloomers in this thread are not the majority, this design choice clearly makes it out you’re not. I doubt your leaving this game will have a dramatic effect on my, or anyone who decides to stay, gameplay experience.

Didn’t you read the blog post? Ascended gear with agony defense infusion is going to be required to complete the new dungeon.

Here’s the quote:

Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.

You can only get agony defense infusions on ascended armor, therefore you will not be able to complete the whole of the new dungeon with exotics, blues, greens, whites whatever.

Oreoz.2573:

You know what i meant by more content. Don’t dissect me.

But to explain further I understand that this plateau has risen and that irks some people.

But the thing i’m trying to say is that this higher level of power is no different than what we’re doing now.

Think about it.

We were striving for exotics.

But are they needed to complete 80 content? No. Of course not. Obviously they have advantages but it’s ultimately the skill of the player that determines success.

So what? We’re getting ascended gear now?

The flat leveling curve means that it’ll take the same amount of time to get that gear as it did for exotics.

Oh sure people who already have their exotics will whine that they have to play to get stronger now but i’d tell those people to shut up because it’s my understanding that they’re playing this game to enjoy it and if they don’t enjoy playing it to experience and benefit from MORE FREE CONTENT then good riddance.

Seriously, no matter how people slice it to me I can’t see the problem with this at all.

It’s such a ludicrous thread. you have to give me that. lol

The issue is not really the increase in stats. Neither is it that we’re going to be grinding for new gear when we just finished getting our exotics.

The biggest issue is the infusion slots. According to the blog, the lack of a certain infusion (agony defense was used in the blog) will prevent you from accessing certain content.

This is gated content and it hasn’t successfully worked in any MMO to date.

Wasselin.1235:

What’s the agony offensive-infusion slot then? Why would a omni-infusion slot be desirable?

It’s not an Agony offense slot. They are introducing multiple slots for infusion. So far they have only revealed information about a defensive slot against the new condition called Agony. Defense against the agony condition will be required in order to access harder tiers of the new dungeon.

Offensive infusion slots will probably work in a similar capacity, probably providing a way to damage certain mobs. For example the adults of this new enemy race are apparently virtually immune to most damage due to their hard shells. It’s possible that offensive slots will allow us to add an infusion that will damage these enemies.

Omni slots apparently allow for either defensive or offensive infusion.