Well it’s still not entirely clear how hard it will be to get these two ascended items. We can assume it won’t be super easy, as it is there to provide a sense of progression. It sounds like there are actually four different types of ascended gear: no-infusion slot, defensive infusion slot, offensive infusion slot, and omni-infusion slot. So it could actually be that the lesser difficulties of the new dungeon drop the no-infusion slot (or the stuff to make it) and then as you progress you get the next infusion slot up.
We also aren’t sure what will go in the infusion slot exactly. What is the difference between a defensive and offensive infusion? Infusion is described as dealing with agony— does agony lower your damage output and make you take damage? Do you have to decide between taking less damage and doing more damage? How will we obtain infusions? It sounds like their will be different qualities of infusions also: in this update they are capped at “fine.”
Agony is a DoT that cannot be cleansed. As you’re progressing through the new dungeon, you will get to a point where you will need to have an agony defense infusion because the DoT will be too powerful.
Would it still be offensive to you if Ascended items were just ever a single tier of gear and the only thing that they ever added after this were new types of infusions that only had an impact on the deeper more challenging parts of dungeons (assuming that they use the Fractals model of increasing difficulty)?
The gear itself is not really the big issue, although it’s a worrying change in the manifesto.
The real big issue is the agony and the requirement of having agony resists, and kitten knows what else down the line, in order to progress further. This is counter to everything that GW2 is about, which is accessibility to all content by everyone.
ascended armor can’t be slotted with runes or sigils – only infusions.
you won’t be using ascended armor the fractal. i know i won’t. i’m not going to lose my rune and sigil bonuses for a few more stat points.
Actually you’re going to have to use it.
Here’s a quote from the blog post.
Players who wish to delve deep into the Fractals will find that Agony makes progress increasingly difficult, until they reach the point where some defense against this condition is a must.
I understand people are angry/disappointed/annoyed, but why are so many of you being so melodramatic?
I don’t like the idea of gear grind or forcing us to have certain gear to experience certain content but threatening to quit or demanding a refund based on a blog post is really over the top.
Many of us looked forward to this game specifically because of the level playing field where your skill as a player mattered more than the gear your character has.
Here we are 3 months later and the gear progression begins.
I just came back from reading the article and I have a few questions which hopefully some of you guys can answer…
The first set of ascended gear hitting us (this friday) is only going to be rings and upgrade slots? Will there be any actual armor or weapons coming to us in the coming days? Moreover, can someone explain the condition “agony” a bit more?
Thanks and much appreciated
They are adding rings and black slot items with this update. The rest of the slots will be included in the future updates and eventually becoming the new standard for max character gear.
The way I understood it is Agony is a new condition that will be used by mobs in the new dungeon. As you’re starting out, on easier difficulty, agony will be manageable. Eventually you will get to a point where you will not be able to progress unless you have ascension gear with defense against Agony infusion upgrades.
I’m not sure if agony will be applied by mobs directly or if it will be an aura in the dungeon.
She is saying there is a happy medium…min max hardcore people get their gear increase which in all honesty only helps making getting through that dungeon easier and has little effect everywhere else…it promotes PvE leaderboards who cleared x dungeon when etc. While at the same time despite how much whining you casuals are doing the 2 stat difference will not effect your ability to enjoy the game in any way shape or form…if you feel forced to get this better gear its your own fault for falling into the pit of assuming you need it. You don’t the gear has no effect on your other pve or wvw experiences.
She’s basically saying that they are adding gear grind to combat gear grind.
I don’t know how many MMOs you have played but I have played many over the years, starting with Ultima Online. The simple fact is that “this gear is only powerful to help with the next tier of dungeon” doesn’t really work in MMOs where this gear applies the same stats to normal PvE, other dungeons and PvP.
Better stats = stronger character across the board, not just in one dungeon.
Dear all people who dislike this change…tell me how 2-5 stats will effect your wvw or PvE experience? By that mark why aren’t you complaining that legendaries have a 1 damage point increase on exotics…clearly that 1 point of damage is making all the difference.
It’s 2-5 stats on only 1 item. How many items can you equip in the game? Multiply that by 2-5.
“We have always worked hard to create a sense of satisfying progression rather than gear grind and this new item progression initiative is no exception. By adding challenging new combat mechanics to end-game content and ways to mitigate those mechanics through gear progression for high-end players, we can add personal progression without making the game feel like an endless treadmill of gear that is just out of your reach.”
Can anyone explain this part of the post to me please? I’ve read it 5 times now and I can’t seem to understand what she is trying to say..
She’s basically saying that they are adding gear grind to combat gear grind.
Huge update good, gear progression this soon bad. Its not hard to understand.
This is what’s perplexing to me. The game has been out what like 2 months? Introducing a new set of gear so soon after launch is a terrible idea. At this rate we should be expecting new tiers every 2-4 months, with every major content update. Now way that can be good for the game.
Content in pre-ascension zones will become trivial, even with downscaling. I mean, most of it is pretty easy now, if you have full exotics. 80’s rarely go to lower level zones as it is, now the only reason to go would be to get 100% completion. Not to mention WvW…
This is literally going against everything GW2 was suppose to be about.
This Agony condition worries me. Especially the part of the blog which describes how you won’t be able to progress further unless you have an X amount of defense against it.
It’s just going to exclude people from content.
I’m not really feeling this new direction. No sir.
It’s not a new direction, this system already existed in Guild Wars.
While I am not a fan of the stat boost over exotics (not because I care that there is a tier above exotics, but because the WvW aspect of the game will be affected by the tier discrepancy), everything else about the armor is just stuff they already used in the previous game. Not sure how that is surprising.
What system is that? Armor infusion against Mursaat? It’s not even close to the same thing. Hell, with a decent hero team in GW1 you don’t even need infused armor. I rolled through Prophecies with Discordway.
This new Agony thing is basically a way to keep people out of certain content because you’re going to need a certain amount of Agony protection to advance past a certain point. It’s basically counter to everything that GW2’s stood for.
This Agony condition worries me. Especially the part of the blog which describes how you won’t be able to progress further unless you have an X amount of defense against it.
It’s just going to exclude people from content.
I’m not really feeling this new direction. No sir.
Has it been reminded that ArenaNet didn’t actually write either article? Today’s news was a sneak-peek provided by other companies…
If it was some sort of easily fixed misunderstanding, why are we on page 33 waiting for a blog post?
Because ArenaNet is not to be held responsible for something they did not write. Also all this turmoil happened the same day the news was released. We might get some news before the 15th, but having to wait until the new build is actually released is reasonable too!
So then why are they endorsing it if it’s wrong? You would think that if the information was wrong, ANet would be the first to correct it. But they are suspiciously quiet…
For what it’s worth, I think bcbully is just here to cause drama and doesn’t actually give a kitten about this game at all, so don’t take him too seriously. If you look at his posts on mmorpg.com and compare them to the posts here, I think his main goal is to cause trouble for this game. For instance, look at some of his posts in this thread http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/369231/page/1
They probably do not have anything to say to sugar it. ArenaNet is probably extremely surprised with this reaction, since they likely believed that they could try to please everyone, by creating a feature that isn’t what anyone wanted, just an in-between opposite opinions (again).
ArenaNet should man up and just stop listening to the grinders. Instead, they are trying to catter to them by adding WoW-like features, which means making the game worse for everyone who has been behind ArenaNet’s original ideals.
Good point. No game is going to appeal to everyone. ANet needs to decide what’s more important to them, appeasing the existing community that likes the current design or if they rather attract the gear grind community which may or may not go back to WoW in a month.
The thing is, every possible indicator shows that more people have left the game than are playing. The need people to play and buy from the cash shop, that is if you want an expansion. Progression helps them do this.
What indicators are those? Every single US server is either High or Full. LA on my server is packed, so is Orr. I rolled a brand new alt a few days ago and even the newbie zones have players.
Unless by “indicator” you mean a certain orifice from which you pulled out your information…
I like the concept of the zones but not the execution. The zones are visually impressive and really convey a sense of a land corrupted by evil. However, they are the most annoying zones in the game.
I won’t even say that they are too challenging because the annoying aspects is what makes them really hard. For example, a risen gorilla can cripple you for 30 seconds, if I remember correctly, and this cripple persists after it’s death. Is there really a reason for such a long kitten cripple from a standard PvE mob?
Then you have all these other mobs that cripple, stun, knock down, pull, poison, set you on fire, etc. Playing in Orr zones is an exercise in frustration not because of the difficulty but because of the annoyance.
I highly doubt it’s a whole set. They were always looking for cool ways to implement back armour, this is likely one of their answers. It will just be a variety of back pieces.
Did you read the article? Here’s a quote from it:
…While it remains to be seen exactly how many new items are being added in terms of new weapon or armor sets, we do know that a new quality level is being introduced: Ascended. This will be one step higher than exotic quality items…
This link, which is an official source, although incomplete says nothing about these items being more powerful, specifically states Infusions are from dungeons (note the plural form) and shows an image of a ascended back piece on a character wearing starter armour. This + the fact the entire update revolves around the Karka tells me more than articles on random gaming sites that never are 100% accurate.
This is why I’m waiting on clarification from Anet. The 3rd party articles make it sound suspect but I’d like to give the devs the benefit of the doubt.
I highly doubt it’s a whole set. They were always looking for cool ways to implement back armour, this is likely one of their answers. It will just be a variety of back pieces.
Did you read the article? Here’s a quote from it:
…While it remains to be seen exactly how many new items are being added in terms of new weapon or armor sets, we do know that a new quality level is being introduced: Ascended. This will be one step higher than exotic quality items…
This basically implies that these will be a higher level of quality for all armor and weapon items. If you read a bit further it even states that there will be similar items added to old dungeons.
This quote though..:
According to ArenaNet, this new item quality is intended to help give the endgame a more distinct sense of progression
I rarely participate in WvW mostly because every time you die, there is a repair bill and I can’t seem to save up enough gold to a point where repair bills stop hurting. One or two times is fine but in WvW they tend to accumulate and the drops don’t offset the penalty.
So all of that karma, gold, tokens, and mats I grinded out for my armor sets were a waste? GG.
I really hope that these new ascended items will be added with new armor slots. Elbows, knees, bracers, etc. Maybe actual exotic level back armor that’s not a guild backpack.
It would be a bit disappointing if this ascended armor is going to replace my exotics that I just finished grinding for. I’m almost done with my karma set, just need the boots, but at this point I’m not sure if it’s even worth the bother.
I disagree Larger numbers make for larger variations in stuff. This allows for things like boss mobs to use higher damage moves and kill / not kill a wider range of people because the stats have a greater range in them. It opens the door for Ideas and mechanics that may have only had this or that out combs to have this or that or that or that because with higher stats comes more ways to combined them and come out with different numbers.
That can just as easily be done without bigger numbers. Just scale the new move to the current stat cap. No need to raise the stat cap just so a mob can hit harder. That’s the lazy/boring way to do things.
Harder content in terms of more interesting and varied mob mechanics, that’s how you make the game more interesting and fun. Just making the mob hit 10x times harder is just “meh.”
I believe I read somewhere that the gear will only be better within the dungeon itself and function as a normal piece of gear outside of the dungeon. (if I can find the post I will edit this)
That’s even worse. LFG for dungeon, must have ascended armor…
How’s that worse? That’s just like Prophecies endgame. Or Factions (must be Weh no Suh) or NF (must have Lightbringer R3 minimum).
That’s a bit different though.
Weh no Su was awarded after completing a certain mission in the campaign. It was also required because it allowed you to enter certain end-game locations that would not be accessible. otherwise
You can solo grind for Lightbringer. Also, I may be wrong since I haven’t done that campaign in a long time but I believe that you get R3 by just simply finishing the campaign.
Either way, it’s not the same as requiring certain gear to participate in an instance.
Wait, how is that different?
He’s saying this will become a “LFM, must be ascended” scenario. In GW1 you could get runs to areas you weren’t supposed to be without getting infused. Yes, you couldn’t progress in Factions unless you were Weh no Suh, but how is that different than not being able to progress here?
You can’t progress in Factions unless you’re Weh no Suh.
You can’t progress in the new dungeon unless you’re ascended.
At least in this case it only deals with 1 dungeon, not half the friggin’ game.
You’re not ascended like you were in GW1. You have ascended gear. That’s the difference.
In Prophesies you needed to be ascended in order to enter certain areas like the Underworld.
What bcbully is implying is similar to how WoW works with gearscore.
DOA pretty much all groups required R10 LB for groups at a certain point. It was basically the same as having armor/weapon boosters for specific bad guys. It took a good long while to get also, much longer than infusion against Mursaat…
The major difference that you could solo for Lightbringer. Besides, DOA was probably one of the hardest areas of the game, so it’s understandable why some people would require R10. Although it wasn’t really necessary and most areas of DOA could even be soloed with a proper hero team.
It’s still a bit different that what that person was implying if this new gear is only obtainable through a dungeon grind. It’ll be similar to WoW’s gearscore requirements to run heroics.
I believe I read somewhere that the gear will only be better within the dungeon itself and function as a normal piece of gear outside of the dungeon. (if I can find the post I will edit this)
That’s even worse. LFG for dungeon, must have ascended armor…
How’s that worse? That’s just like Prophecies endgame. Or Factions (must be Weh no Suh) or NF (must have Lightbringer R3 minimum).
That’s a bit different though.
Weh no Su was awarded after completing a certain mission in the campaign. It was also required because it allowed you to enter certain end-game locations that would not be accessible. otherwise
You can solo grind for Lightbringer. Also, I may be wrong since I haven’t done that campaign in a long time but I believe that you get R3 by just simply finishing the campaign.
Either way, it’s not the same as requiring certain gear to participate in an instance.
“infusions”…if anything like gw1 i wouldnt mind it…its just a buff to fight certain monster and everyone in gw1 pretty much have infuse armor since its part of story line http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Infusion
AKA how to kill the new Karka enemy that the article already states can’t be normally killed and players will need to find out how…
That doesn’t make sense though. Karka are apparently invincible until a certain criteria is met by the player. If Infused armor can only be acquired through the new dungeon where you fight Karka… How do you fight Karka in that dungeon?
I think that the biggest issue is the fact that we first found out about this from 3rd party sources.
While I’m aware that the blog post explaining this armor is imminent, that should’ve been the way we found out about this armor. Not some vague statement on a game review site.
Vague statement on a 3rd party site + no clarification by Anet = kitten storm.
If so, lol at all the people flying off the hinge about how this isnt like GW1.
Infusion in GW1 only offered protection against one OP skill used by Mursaat mobs. If Infusion in GW2 works similarly against this new race, then I don’t mind it.
On the other hand, I may have an issue if Infusion provides some sort of a benefit across the whole game.
Edit: One of the biggest draws to GW1 for me was the fact that I didn’t have to grind for armor to remain competitive. I could stop playing for 6 months, come back and still be able to do virtually anything.
If GW2 is going to adopt a gear treadmill model like WoW and I’ll have to grind for gear after every break I decide to take, I probably won’t be sticking with the game for too long.
I don’t mind the puzzle itself. The sheer amount of people doing it is what gets to me. 90% of the time I can’t see my character so I have no idea where I’m running and jumping to.
How would you not have known what you were getting when you can mouse over the chest and it says exactly what you get: a random tool, a random buff and a random stack of tonics. I opened a few before Halloween and I knew what I was getting.
Right. But the name of the tonics that drop from the chests changed after Sept. 25th. Before the tonics that dropped from the chests were named: Snow Owl Tonic, Pink Moa Tonic, etc. After they became “Mystery Tonics” but the names of the tonics that we already had prior to Sept. 25th were not changed to Mystery Tonics. I still have half of a bank tab full of named tonics.
So people who conserve their assets, and resist gluttony and temptation, are reaping the benefits? Shocked I tell you! Shocked!
That has nothing to do with anything. When the game first launched, the tonics you got in the BL chests were named. Like “Snow Owl Tonic,” “Minotaur Tonic,” etc. Sometime later, ANet changed the tonics in BL chests to “Mystery Tonic” without retroactively changing the previous tonics. Moreover, people had no way of knowing that the tonics will change a month after launch.
What the OP is trying to say is that those players who opened BL chests after the change from named tonics to mystery tonics get an advantage since they can use those tonics in the forge.
Also, I would love for ANet to change all of my named tonics to Mystery tonics. That way I can free up about 15 bank slots.
I agree with the OP. Being that this is a holiday event, I think that most people would want to get some sort of memorabilia for participating.
As a somewhat casual player I made my peace with the fact that I’ll probably never own a legendary but I feel that the holiday events should be fun and rewarding for all who participate, not just those who grind the most or have the most gold. Something to show off a few years down the line. Something that says “I was here during the first ever GW2 Halloween event.”
Exactly. This isn’t feedback, or anything useful at all. He is simply complaining about how “horrible” he thinks the halloween weapons are (in fact, that is the title of the thread) I understand that it is just his opinion, but ranting about it on the forums isn’t going to get you anywhere.
The forums are supposed to be a useful tool for discussion and help. It’s just annoying to see 10+ threads complaining about how much the event sucks – usually with no constructive feedback at all.
Honestly, your post is not useful either. If you don’t agree with the OP, don’t reply and the post will get dumped into obscurity by more popular threads. By starting this whole “stop complaining” campaign, you’re only bumping this thread to the top of the list.
The biggest deterrent for me is the RNG associated with these items. I would have absolutely no problem with the RNG approach if there was a way to acquire these items via in-game currency but because the BL keys require spending real money and the chance is random to boot, it just does not sit well with me.
As others have said, I would have absolutely no problems purchasing these skins with gems but I won’t spend real money on a random chance of getting a virtual item.
I was a huge fan of costumes in GW1 and purchased a whole bunch. The only thing that’s stopping me from purchasing costumes in GW2 is the fact that they cannot be used in combat.
The Mad King’s Outfit and the Phantom’s Hood look absolutely sick and I would love to buy them but I spend so little time in cities that they would be useless to me as they currently are.
It’s not just because the game is buy-to-play (free-to-play is a different animal). It’s about the overall design of the dungeon experience. Plenty of subscription games suffer from the same problems, World of Warcraft being the prime example.
As a matter of fact, I quit WoW because of the same issues I run into while running GW2 dungeons. There is a need for a redesign.
One thing that I really liked about The Secret World was their dungeons. They had very little trash and most of the fights were bosses. It just makes more sense.
In GW2 certain trash pulls are harder than certain bosses but do not give equivalent rewards. I’m all for dungeon redesign that would put more emphasis on boss fights instead of trash mobs or give similar rewards for tough trash mobs as they do for bosses.
Personally, I stopped doing dungeons because most people I ran into while doing them were dbags. The dungeons are like an antithesis to the rest of the game. You get kicked for watching cutscenes, people leave if they die and to make things worse, without a dungeon finder tool, you spent 30+ minutes just hanging out in a particular zone spamming /map to find a group.
I wouldn’t really even care about the dungeons but I can’t finish my personal story without running Arah story mode and I can even find a group for it because everyone either wants to run explorer mode or people leave or kick you for watching cutscenes… In freaking story mode!
Edit: I’m starting to get a feeling that we may need GW1 heroes, specifically for dungeons. At least for story mode. Make exp mode give better loot/XP, but at least let us finish the story mode on our own terms. Plus it would be a great time/gold sink for us to gear up our heroes.
Dungeon finder is a must. I’ve been having some very serious issues with running dungeons past lvl 70. I’ve been cursed out and kicked from groups for watching cutscenes in story mode. I’ve had people leave groups for the stupidest things, like if they died once. Since getting to the Arah part of the personal story, I’ve been trying to find a group for Arah story mode without any luck. Everyone wants to do explorer mode and when I finally did find a story group, 2 people left at the beginning because others were watching cutscenes. Basically, it’s been a nightmare and a huge turn off from the game.
There is no community. People are treating instances the same way they do in other games that offer cross server dungeon finder. I’m actually having a hard time logging in anymore because I’m at a point where I have to deal with d-bags to enjoy the rest of the game.
A dungeon finder would at least make it easier and faster to find groups.
Agreed 100%. Guild alliances was one of my favorite features in GW1. Small guilds were able to keep their identity and at the same time be part of a huge zerg.
