The problem is people giving up soon as they face any competition. The NA people posting here regard it as “unfair” that people can change the map while they sleep, log in next day – see things have changed, and simply give up, BECAUSE they regard it as “unfair” The problem is in this weakness. They believe everything should be wrapped around NA hours, and when it isn’t – it becomes “unfair”. Then they give up because they already believe it’s “unfair” and don’t even try to fight back next day…fighting back next day no matter what is what SoS tries to do (they don’t give up, because they’re not assuming the game should revolve around them like the NA people complaining here are doing).
People will always complain – the next thing will be simply “that server has too many people, fix it Anet so we can win too”. This is really what the heart of this complaint is.
Recapping once again, after such an epic pro-nationalist speech above^ – the complaints seem to come down to “get off our server foreigner scum” and “you’re making us pvp during our day to regain ground, we want to wake up to what we left”.
I’ll expand on previous post (edit button disappeared again) -
Maybe they could have two ruleset groups for the matchups – dividing servers into one of the two rulesets: one 24/7 and one sleepyzone (NA only); then give free transfers to the ruleset group of choice, with guilds retaining their influence upon transfer.
The 24/7 groupings would have the ruleset same as they currently are – WvW is open all hours, pve buff on at all hours; the second grouping (NA sleepytime) NA hours only (WvW light) groupings is 12 hours a day NA timezone – WvW closes at 12 midnight EST time, and on this server ruleset the pve buff also stops at this hour. The whole server turns into a pumpkin after midnight. Anyone inside WvW at the closing time gets booted and nobody else can get in. WvW becomes a no-go area after midnight EST (or whatever timezone is used by the NA people as a whole). NA people sleep easy knowing the whole server is as they left it before lockup. Pve buff drops off on these servers as nobody is playing after these hours anyway, this last thing also providing incentive for people to join the 24/7 servers if they tend to be logged on after WvW has closed shop for the night on that server ruleset and still like to do pve things…(maybe these people will later end up joining 24/7 WvW, so they too should be on a 24/7 server ruleset).
That would solve “the problem” for the “NA servers are for NA people only” people, while still providing incentive to play on 24/7 servers.
Btw who ever said WvW is persistent he’s lying. When you woke up you see everything is reset and in one color, either yours or some other servers. Nothing you do, persists even 1 day.
If you don’t look at scoreboard, you can assume you start a new match each day, in such a way one server is picked to have a good start up with whole of the forts in full supplies and full upgrades.
If your server or even two servers were getting set against a 24/7 server that outclassed them (both of them at once?), the other two servers should have dropped rankings and no longer be facing a 24/7 server.
Maybe they could have two ruleset groups for the matchups – dividing servers into one of the two rulesets: one 24/7 and one sleepyzone (NA only); then give free transfers to the ruleset group of choice, with guilds retaining their influence upon transfer.
I just can’t argue anymore. 20 matchups is more than enough to get us around our level of opponents, and yes we do face nightcappers that take the entire maps. You can either accept this or just think we;re lying, your choice.
No it isn’t enough time, the matchup system has really only just kicked in – it wasn’t working properly for ages. It looks like it needs further tweaking with this in mind.
The “nightcapper” servers (you need to stop using this term, it’s just people playing their natural hours just like you do) should be facing each other and clearly not pitted against servers like yours, then we wouldn’t be hearing this as being an issue, and this thread wouldn’t exist.
We’ve had how many matchups? 20?30? This is not a problem that will be solved by matchups. And in the case of SoS detailed by gorge, while the matchup is “fair”… again.. it is not fun. Having their server nightcap you and knock them out completely and then again and again ad nauseam is not the way WvW is meant to be played. And then when you get in the next bad matchup, it gets very bad.
The matching system isn’t working yet then. You can’t tell me every matchup you’ve gone against has a 24/7 population, except for your server which is empty during those hours…basically you shouldn’t be facing a 24/7 server if your server isn’t one, because obviously your server isn’t ready for that kind of play.
Your server also might need to encourage your existing nightshift workers etc to play for the server, because people will be there, they’re just not queuing.
I’ve never played on an empty NA server during my hours, even the most quiet ones…there’s always people around.
we usually do take a decent chunk back almost imediately when we get back on. But generally these servers with decent sized night guilds who nightcap everything also have decent prime time populations and don’t get completely destroyed, not to mention the completely upgraded holdings from the nightcapping make it a grueling fight and make getting back everything a little difficult.
Then the issue is your server isn’t properly matched up yet. Wait for your server to drop rankings, and play against other servers who also don’t have a 24/7 population.
The main issue is luring out the existing population onto the field, because it seems NA people won’t play unless they’re in a zerg and also currently winning.
After going to sleep once and waking up they all take fright because other people have actually played while they weren’t around, and they seem to give up.
I’m sorry lollie, but I’ve read all this thread and you don’t have the foggiest idea of what is going on at our hours, and statements like this, which is quite the opposite of what happens (we tend to get pretty annoyed and wipe the floor after a nightcap) really show you shouldn’t be talking on the subject, and you’ve made them repeatedly. Making guesses does not help, and detracts from the real arguments.
If you’re wiping the floor on your hours then there is no issue at all with people “nightcapping” (in reality just playing the game) during their hours.
Can you all have a meeting then and decide what the real story is? Are you discouraged like the guy above you said, or do you wipe the floor?
The main issue is luring out the existing population onto the field, because it seems NA people won’t play unless they’re in a zerg and also currently winning.
After going to sleep once and waking up they all take fright because other people have actually played while they weren’t around, and they seem to give up.
Also think it’s funny that the same people arguing that NA servers should just recruit more Oceanics also say that Oceanics can’t be put in their own 3 server group cause there aren’t enough Oceanic players to spread around 3 servers.
You realise you also have nightshift workers and etc to bolster up the “NA nightcrew”? Half if not more of Oceanics would likely play on the NA servers voluntarily, just to be around more people. That would leave a three server group pretty much dead (really doubt we’d have three full servers, there’d not be enough for decent sized DEs also across 3 servers).
Basically, this wouldn’t work and is not a solution.
Also, the people saying “nightcappers” are small groups and don’t face against any opposition at all, wouldn’t have to recruit many “night time” players, as finding a small team to face people who aren’t used to fighting anything other than doors can’t be hard to put together.
Personally I wouldn’t mind leaving the unofficial oceanic server.
You might have to – looks like there’s so much hatred for Oceanics playing during their natural hours that people are going to start picking on that server.
I honestly don’t care, if Tarnished Coast is going to use us as an excuse to use Gate of Madness to win, so be it. What people don’t realize is that while we’re sleeping they’re nightcapping us. Even to me, what about you?
It’s unfortunate that these people don’t see it without all the emotion (“waaa we’re the majority so when we’re sleeping it’s unfair for anyone to play”).
Personally I wouldn’t mind leaving the unofficial oceanic server.
You might have to – looks like there’s so much hatred for Oceanics playing during their natural hours that people are going to start picking on that server.
That’s fine and dandy, but don’t get mad (Anet) at people who decide their realms are going to team up with other realms against the night capers. Shutting down a thread about such an Alliance won’t stop it from forming as you did with the Sea of Sorrows thread. If you don’t want team ups against the realms I would suggest moving said heavy night realms to the European bracket.
The French language/French Canada server is a bit of a special case. But the NA servers all have access to same language-speaking, Oceanics/Asians/nightshift workers etc and have no excuses for not trying to communicate with these groups on their server, because in most cases they do exist – it isn’t like soon as NA night kicks in every single person bar members of one or two servers no longer logs on, like some here would have you believe.
And for people that think there is no difference in performance as to where servers are located, when LOTRO moved the EU servers to NA, my ping went from about 55 to 105, it spiked far more regularly and I was introduced to the joys of packet loss.
Oceanics play on NA servers because they’re our only option (closest to us) and get 200ms to 300ms. You’re complaining about 105ms? Want us booted from the server as well?
The game was sold to you as 24/7 open world pvp. You can’t ask for your money back, as you have no basis for this (they told you what the game was, no surprises).
Either way, it’s unfortunate for them, as they will need to choose one way or the other.
The “nightcapping” thing is being used as an excuse: people like these will always find something to stamp their little feet over and try to force the hand of their parents.
server transfer to win does not mean any of the above. We picked a server at start and we will stay on it and wait for the devs to…
In all MMORPGs, some servers become busier and some get quieter, as people transfer their characters or reroll onto them. This is nothing new. Up to you to find a server that matches your needs as the game matures and server types become apparent.
But in your case, it wouldn’t matter what server you transferred onto, because you want someone to do all the work for you. You’re digging your heels in.
No it’s people give up because they feel it’s “unfair” that people play while they’re asleep, mainly because they don’t understand that there are people who are not part of the NA daytime crew.
They don’t even try to regain ground. It’s their own fault.
there will always be a population imbalance between servers…population problem once for all because even if you will play in the underdog server, there will be always a reason to fight back
It seems more a problem that as soon as one server starts winning one or both of the other servers give up. Plenty of people have said this, and this is occurring not at “night time” either, it’s happening during the NA daytime.
The problem really is a server giving up too easily. The problem is not “nightcapping” – this is being used as a convenient excuse and a chance to complain.
Otherwise we’ll look for the promised land elsewhere soon.
So instead of fixing your own problem as a server (field people during NA sleepytime/daytime in other parts of world and become 24/7) or as a guild (move guild to a server that either doesn’t care about fronting 24/7 and be happy that way, or to a server that already fronts 24/7) you’d rather threaten the game devs.
It’s not even that our Oceanic players are “worse” than SoS’s. It’s that they are not as numerous.
And their NA presence is less numerous than your server’s NA players.
So what’s your point. Their server shouldn’t be allowed to have mainly Oceanic people? The Oceanics should be forced to transfer to make it “fair” for your NA people so they can sleep soundly? Don’t you see that your NA people are nightcapping their Oceanics while they sleep? Is SoS here complaining about that? No, because they handle both the “nightcapping” on their own server, AND all the needless complaining/whining/blinkered and self-centred craptalking that people like you come here into the forums to produce.
No, when NA players from a primarily NA populated server fight other primarily NA populated servers that are all running full queues at NA primetime and the server with an OZ population happens to lose because they were outplayed/everyone teamed up on them/they’re in a bracket that’s too high for them, it’s fair game.
But when the NA servers by and large go to sleep and the one server with the most Australians sweeps over the entire map and takes keeps and towers without facing any resistance, it becomes an issue.
The above guy is saying it’s okay for the other server’s NA players to be weaker than his server’s NA players, but it’s not okay for his server’s Oceanic players to be weaker than the other server’s Oceanic players.
Wouldn’t it be better if there wasn’t just a handfull of oceanic guilds on every server, just enough to put 100 oceanic players on each map on every server every night. Then your server would have 24 hour a day presence.
There already are, just some of those servers have such a weak NA presence that they get “nightcapped” by the NA crew during the Oceanic night, so aren’t rising up the ranks (are actually sinking).
Also it isn’t like Oceanics don’t want competition when we play. If I was a smart NA guild alliance I’d probably go seek out the existing high Oceanic pop servers like IoJ and SoS, and start there.
Oceanic’s need their own server, and the French Canadians need their own server.
OR just let the various populations naturally spread around and settle on servers who’ll be able to play each other. This will happen, given time. It won’t be just one server owning all the players, it’ll be several servers…with the rest not having 24/7 populations and those servers will play each other. Nothing to worry about, it’s just populations haven’t adapted and settled yet.
strong enough offpeak presence to zerg everything down with no real opposition.
If matching works right you shouldn’t be getting matched against servers that don’t have a fairly similar composition to your server. That means, your server should ultimately only play against other non-24/7 servers, if your server doesn’t front during those hours.
Quote button has disappeared again vvv but @Varonth, luckily for the us, the game devs want all their players to have access to the game, not just you.
They probably also want everyone to have fun ingame, not just you
Quote button has disappeared again vvv but @Varonth, luckily for the us, the game devs want all their players to have access to the game, not just you.
and whichever of those servers has even the scarcest population advantage wins 100% of the time. Please come down to the bottom six and see how things work out there before claiming everything is fine.
So, you want the game devs to regulate overall population for you? Really?
Population control is in your hands as a player – go to the server that has the population and timezone you prefer.
Looking at things purely numerically, staying on a low population server really isn’t what the game devs/shareholders would prefer, as keeping that extra low-pop server running costs money. Better that servers are a little more consolidated tbh, money-wise.
Messing around with point gain does not fix the main problem that the losing side is underpopulated and can not compete at the same times as the winning one. THAT needs to be fixed. everything else just pushes around problems.
There is no problem when the servers facing each other will have similar groups of people. 24/7 servers will face each other, and the rest who are not 24/7 will face each other.
Could you agree that before that, SoS was getting dominated? Then all of a sudden, the majority of US players go to bed for GoM/TC, and then tada…. you steam roll everything?
You HONESTLY dont see anything wrong with that?
Let’s turn this around for a sec:
SoS is a mainly Oceanic timezone server. So what you’re saying is it’s okay for NA to steamroll sleeping Oceanics, but it’s not okay for Oceanics to steamroll sleeping NAs?
The key thing is, “night time” active players, you know mostly oceanic players, need to spread out amongst the servers. The problem is they have this mentality carried over from other MMO’s where they need an “unofficial oceanic server” where they all bunch up on.
This is a community issue and the oceanic community needs to discuss this.
Decide for themselves… is it really that fun to roll the map virtually uncontested during their prime time when north american players are sleeping?
Oceanic people “bunch up together” so they have other people around to play with and talk to during their playing hours. It’s nothing to do with your sleepytime.
Properly matched servers won’t have one with 100 players and the other 2 with 0 players – eventually servers will be either 24/7 and at top and matched to each other, or servers that don’t have 24/7 populations and they’ll also be matched to each other. There won’t be this disparity you worry about.
lemme understand:
NA servers talk English (yeah American English), EU servers talk English, then why split them into 2 parts? if WvW was realy intended to be a 24\7 match, they shouldn’t make those distiction into NA\EU. This was the first fault they made, it’s not an european player fault going in an EU server
European gamers are used to having servers in their region, for latency benefits. Oceanic gamers aren’t, so we always get dumped onto the US servers (which still give us 200ms to 300ms pings), so this is why we’re here. European gamers would be pretty much expected by the games company to kick up a fuss if they got forced onto US servers, because of higher pings. They wouldn’t even try to make US gamers play on EU servers, the tears would be epic.
They split servers up to avoid the drama, but grats I guess, you guys still managed to find something.
People should be…discouraged to fight when other servers presence is close to 0.
Those are our natural playing hours. You suggesting we should be discouraged from playing in our own timezone? Don’t bother replying, because yes this is what you’re saying.
Iollie you’d have a point if they didn’t release queue stats showing that Oceanic heavy servers have 24 hour queues and other servers don’t, but all NA servers have queues during NA peaktime.
Yes and this means that NA vs an Oceanic server is going to destroy them. Notice that servers like SoS (mainly Oceanic, lack NA members) and to a lesser extent IoJ (who have some NA members) don’t complain about the NA efforts during their night times. They just man up and deal with it.
The solution is to get a 24/7 selection of players, if you want your server to compete with the top servers who already try this.
when your server is losing stuff during NA prime time then they aren’t pvping against air, they’re pvping against your NA players.
It’s the same – they’re asleep, and their “offteam/nightcrew” is pvping against your day crew, same as your “nightcrew” pvps against our “daycrew”. You don’t understand this because all you see is greater numbers, being from a bigger country, so your “daycrew” has more on at their daytime.
If all playtimes are supposed to be equal in value then why is it that one of the Region primetimes is completely pointless? Currently US primetime is completely dwarfed in value because all other region primetimes are immediately after it. Take everything during US primetime? Go to sleep, now lose it all to Euro/Oceanic Primetime and allow them to hold it for 6-8 hours before US primetime.
Without directing my post towards a specific area of the world, I fail to realise how the ‘peak’ time players cannot see that they’re being completely selfish. The Oceanic & Asian communities paid for the game as well, expecting that the WvWvW would be open 24/7 so that we could enjoy it as much as everyone else. You seem to think that your servers are being rolled during your off-peak because you don’t have numbers. Have you thought for a second that maybe your off-peak players are just really bad?
In addition to that, take the above poster I’ve quoted… he says “Take everything during US primetime? Go to sleep, now lose it all to Euro/Oceanic Primetime”… ok, so you’re taking everything during your prime time? Flip the situation around for a second. YOU, or the NA prime time, is taking EVERYTHING during OUR off-peak timezone. I’m pretty certain that what you’re doing is EXACTLY what you’re accusing the Oceanic & Euro communities of doing. You take everything during the US timezone, we take everything during the Oceanic timezone. The same. It’s pretty easy to understand.
To counteract these problems we’ve been recruiting NA guilds like crazy so develop a strong NA timezone so that we can eventually move up into Tier-1. You should be doing the same instead of expecting that your timezone becomes ‘special’ compared to the rest of them.
There’s always the option of transferring servers yourself to help an Oceanic server.
This completely (what Thalantyr said)^ Though I’m pretty sure it’ll be skipped over again because it makes too much sense.
And thanks for the response Matt, this is getting ridiculous – it just looks like they’ve grabbed onto something they can blame their losing on, and running to the forums with it.
stop harassing the rest of the world, we paid for the game too.
…nightcapping…prime-time efforts…the problem.
Even the words you use “primetime” vs “nightcapping”, diminishes our perceived efforts. Just for your information, the hours we play is OUR primetime.
You also missed the point of what you were quoting – when WE go to bed, YOUR TIMEZONE does the same to us – takes points out of our control, because, you know, we’re sleeping.
If all playtimes are supposed to be equal in value then why is it that one of the Region primetimes is completely pointless? Currently US primetime is completely dwarfed in value because all other region primetimes are immediately after it. Take everything during US primetime? Go to sleep, now lose it all to Euro/Oceanic Primetime and allow them to hold it for 6-8 hours before US primetime.
Without directing my post towards a specific area of the world, I fail to realise how the ‘peak’ time players cannot see that they’re being completely selfish. The Oceanic & Asian communities paid for the game as well, expecting that the WvWvW would be open 24/7 so that we could enjoy it as much as everyone else. You seem to think that your servers are being rolled during your off-peak because you don’t have numbers. Have you thought for a second that maybe your off-peak players are just really bad?
In addition to that, take the above poster I’ve quoted… he says “Take everything during US primetime? Go to sleep, now lose it all to Euro/Oceanic Primetime”… ok, so you’re taking everything during your prime time? Flip the situation around for a second. YOU, or the NA prime time, is taking EVERYTHING during OUR off-peak timezone. I’m pretty certain that what you’re doing is EXACTLY what you’re accusing the Oceanic & Euro communities of doing. You take everything during the US timezone, we take everything during the Oceanic timezone. The same. It’s pretty easy to understand.
To counteract these problems we’ve been recruiting NA guilds like crazy so develop a strong NA timezone so that we can eventually move up into Tier-1. You should be doing the same instead of expecting that your timezone becomes ‘special’ compared to the rest of them.
There’s always the option of transferring servers yourself to help an Oceanic server.
If all playtimes are supposed to be equal in value then why is it that one of the Region primetimes is completely pointless? Currently US primetime is completely dwarfed in value because all other region primetimes are immediately after it. Take everything during US primetime? Go to sleep, now lose it all to Euro/Oceanic Primetime and allow them to hold it for 6-8 hours before US primetime.
Without directing my post towards a specific area of the world, I fail to realise how the ‘peak’ time players cannot see that they’re being completely selfish. The Oceanic & Asian communities paid for the game as well, expecting that the WvWvW would be open 24/7 so that we could enjoy it as much as everyone else. You seem to think that your servers are being rolled during your off-peak because you don’t have numbers. Have you thought for a second that maybe your off-peak players are just really bad?
In addition to that, take the above poster I’ve quoted… he says “Take everything during US primetime? Go to sleep, now lose it all to Euro/Oceanic Primetime”… ok, so you’re taking everything during your prime time? Flip the situation around for a second. YOU, or the NA prime time, is taking EVERYTHING during OUR off-peak timezone. I’m pretty certain that what you’re doing is EXACTLY what you’re accusing the Oceanic & Euro communities of doing. You take everything during the US timezone, we take everything during the Oceanic timezone. The same. It’s pretty easy to understand.
To counteract these problems we’ve been recruiting NA guilds like crazy so develop a strong NA timezone so that we can eventually move up into Tier-1. You should be doing the same instead of expecting that your timezone becomes ‘special’ compared to the rest of them.
There’s always the option of transferring servers yourself to help an Oceanic server.
This completely (what Thalantyr said)^ Though I’m pretty sure it’ll be skipped over again because it makes too much sense.
And thanks for the response Matt, this is getting ridiculous – it just looks like they’ve grabbed onto something they can blame their losing on, and running to the forums with it.
stop harassing the rest of the world, we paid for the game too.
Balance would be fronting an opposing team during the same hours. In fact the smaller the team size overall, the harder it is to accomplish the same things in the same timespan.
But it’s not global, is it? They will never match the EU against NA servers..
Within latency limits, it’s global.
I’m not sure that’s an issue for most, I play both sides just fine..
Then NA people who want to play on Europe servers can I guess (and vice versa), if they want to make their 24/7 mega servers over there. As for me, I have to play on the closest to me (NA), and I still get a 200ms-300ms (not sure how much exactly) ping.
