Guild Wars 2

Achilles.2197:

Kaineng is on there twice.

That bad there, huh?

D:

Istaf.1953:

^ Has more views than sPvP

Now lets not start that. GvG and sPvP are both excellent in their own unique ways, and have similar feelings about playing second fiddle to everything PvE.

So lets put an end to this fighting among ourselves now.

I would prefer a more positive approach. Something like, multiple commander tag tiers and the ability to upgrade a tag with lots of badges and votes from the players on the server. If you transferred, the tag would be downgraded to base again.

That way, you can see which commanders are supported by the server as good commanders.

Zero.2796:

I have not read the entire discussion so far… But the title of this thread alone is dumb enough. People should have a goal to strive for in a video game. When they work for something, they should be rewarded. If you are complaining about someone else having higher stats than you, then maybe you should just go play the game! If you can’t grind what you need, then figure out how to play the market and make the money to buy your way to your weapon. Did mommy and daddy never reward you for work as a child, or were you just spoiled?

My parents rewarded me for doing chores by letting me eat and sleep under their roof, and reminded me so every night. I didn’t get ‘rewards’ until I was old enough to help the neighbor build a fence around his pool, and then my reward was the money he payed me in exchange for my labor.

The ‘striving’ needed for ascended gear is a pansy version of striving. Do some farming and some crafting. Real striving comes in the form of improving your reaction times, your recognition of animations, your timing on skills, and your choices in a fight.

Although if the Sacrx is correct, then 100% of the game was geared around casual play and this conversation is useless in the context of trying to make it more hardcore.

So best of luck to you guys, I hope it’s becomes the game you want.

There is a chance to get rares from the wxp chests. They are rare.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did.

What? I don’t have an ascended weapon yet. I haven’t done the crafting, and now that I think about it I’m pretty sure the Ori farming I mentioned earlier was for my first couple sets of exotics. I don’t know why I brought that up in this context, probably because I was high.

That’s one way to deal with farming I suppose.

It certainly helps! lol…

Anyway, I’m not trying to be a jerk, I just think a wonky standard is being applied here. I’m being told that ascendeds should be downscaled in the name of ‘fair play,’ but that doesn’t really make sense to me considering the design choices that Anet made with WvW in the first place: namely, being able to level completely in WvW. Uplevels are always going to be at a significant disadvantage in WvW, but I don’t hear anyone saying we should eliminate them as a vehicle to promote an even playing field. The stat discrepancy between an 80 with rares and an uplevel with blues is way higher than the stat discrepancy between an 80 with full exotics and an 80 with full ascended.

I fully understand the double-standard that sort of exists here. But it only took me ~3 weeks after release to have an 80 in full exotics. An ascended weapon is supposed to take ~2 weeks for the average level 80 player that already has a bank tab full of mats. Plus the weeks for the time-gated laurels for the other things.

It’s just such a huge jump I can’t ignore or forget it.

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

We’re not talking about being level 5 and leveling to 80. We’re talking about the role of ascended gear in WvW and how it deviates from the developers’ previous statements on the matter.

Then you completely missed the point of my comparison. I was pointing out that, as a measure of becoming effective in WvW, you’re already pretty much there simply by being 80 with exotic gear. If you don’t PvE or craft (which some people apparently think they should never be “forced” to do), the time and effort spent getting to the level cap and gearing yourself with exotics is going to be considerable. Not only that, you will be killed many times by players through no fault of your own, simply because they are stronger than you.

What you are doing here is arbitrarily applying the “fair game” standard. If you want an even playing field in WvW, you should also be arguing for the elimination of uplevels, which would—ironically—actually emphasize the role of “forced” PvE in terms of end WvW effectiveness.

No, I’m not. It was understood, from the beginning, that to be fully effective in WvW you had to be 80 in exotics and that was it. If you entered at a level lower than 80 you were at a disadvantage but you were able to actually level while doing WvW. This ascended grind kitten entirely contrary to what was originally stated which is why people are so annoyed. I would’ve stuck with another game if I wanted to grind for gear.

In the massive-multiplayer-online genre, there really are none. This game was supposed to be different. (Except for GW1 maybe? I never played it.)

A bit selfish of the vertical progression people to want another game to be catered first to them, when every MMO caters to them.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Doesn’t need to be implemented so why bother putting code in just to satisfy a few unhappy people?

Because a few is actually a lot.

Prove it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Doesn’t need to be implemented so why bother putting code in just to satisfy a few unhappy people?

Because a few is actually a lot.

And they often tend to be the dedicated WvW people, who try to coordinate in a guild and with other guilds and with the whole server.

WvW will continue without these people, but it will be more PvE-like than every before, with everyone zerging to farm bag loot and tower rewards.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Vena.8436:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

That math is done purely on weapon comparison, it isn’t then matched against over-all stats.

The attack gained from exotic to ascended was ~55. Depending on your spec, thats 0.5-2%. The major stat gain is 0.5%, the minor stat gain is even less. Of your overall stats.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

Since it doesn’t matter, why should we bother with downgrading just to satisfy a few people?

Given that scaling is implemented quite widely in the game, do you think it would really be that hard?

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did.

What? I don’t have an ascended weapon yet. I haven’t done the crafting, and now that I think about it I’m pretty sure the Ori farming I mentioned earlier was for my first couple sets of exotics. I don’t know why I brought that up in this context, probably because I was high.

That’s one way to deal with farming I suppose.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Altie.4571:

Arkanfel.8403:

Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear.

This.

And the other side is whining that doing mindless tasks should get them special advantages.

No, the other side is saying that if you want ascended gear, you go get it. What is “mindless” and what isn’t is entirely subjective. If you don’t like the system maybe that’s fair, but nerfing it for those that went and got it done just because you don’t want to isn’t.

I personally do agree that PvE is too much more rewarding than WvW, and I found the laurel cost for badge-acquired ascended trinkets to be too high (and the badge cost too low). I think Anet made a huge mistake in making ascended gear only available through fractals at first. But for my money none of that translates into “we should nerf it in WvW.” To their credit, as near as I can tell Anet has realized these mistakes and is attempting to address them.

Ok, so you are whining about people potentially getting gear equal to you without going through the ascended crafting process that you did. That is telling enough on two fronts:
1) The stat difference matters (although I don’t think we were really disputing this anyway)
2) The ascended crafting process is not fun (you need the better stats in WvW as a ‘reward’ after all)

It’s likely been said thousands of times already, but this is simply Skinner’s box design. Yes it’s extremely pervasive in MMO, but that does not make it healthy, and I don’t think supporting this design is healthy for the game or the gaming industry in general.

Altie.4571:

Arkanfel.8403:

Because what you are doing, essentially, is whining because you aren’t willing to get ascended gear.

This.

And the other side is whining that doing mindless tasks should get them special advantages.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

If it’s “no big deal”, “doesn’t matter”, and “doesn’t make much difference” then what is the point of getting ascended gear and why do you care so much if they downgrade it?

The meaning I took from that post was that ascended gear doesn’t make you OP, and that the people complaining about the difference between exotic and ascended are making a bigger deal out of it than is warranted.

An estimated 5-10% extra damage doesn’t make you OP? Okay…

It means an automatic win against an equally skilled or slightly more skilled player.

How about we REALLY not make it OP by having everyone play on an even field?

Because we’re not on an even playing field even with downscaled ascended gear. You can WvW naked and/or straight out of the tutorial mission. If you want an “even field,” play sPvP. World versus World is essentially GW2’s version of open-world PvP.

I am willing to place down money that the * most common denominator * in WvW is level 80 in exotics.

Again, if it is actually, “only” 0.5-2%, then what does it matter if it’s downgraded?

THIS

It’s nonsense to say both that ascended should not be downscaled and that it makes no difference.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

That’s your problem, not ANet’s. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to get Ascended gear (which really isn’t that hard at all, to be honest), that is a decision you chose to make.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

Your individual gameplay habits are irrelevant to that point. If you want personal victories with a guaranteed even playing field (at least equipment, stats wise) there’s always sPvP.

Please, farming mats and nodes and crafting? Of course it isn’t hard, it’s mind-numbingly dull. I chose to not lower myself to doing chores in my free time, and while I don’t mind other people being rewarded for mindless work I object to it being the only way to be rewarded.

The only thing I ever had to farm was Ori nodes. Maybe they changed something so idk how it is now, but when I was doing it, an Ori run took me all of thirty minutes and would give me somewhere between thirty and fifty chunks of ore. Then boom, I’m back in WvW for the rest of the day and don’t bother ori farming again until after server reset.

The problem here isn’t the game, it’s your expectations. You simply aren’t willing to do what it takes to attain ascended equipment. That’s your prerogative, but it isn’t a reason to make it easier to get, or to downscale in WvW (again, the presence of uplevels in WvW at all makes this a silly thing to even suggest).

And I raid with a guild of ~15 people busting much larger groups. I can’t get this in s/tPvP, and I wouldn’t be playing anymore if I hadn’t been addicted to this.

So let me get this straight: because you only enjoy one incredibly narrow aspect of the game (in this case, WvW under very specific circumstances) ascended gear is unfair?

We can dance around all day about ‘rewards’ and ‘deserving’ but when it comes down to it, it simply offers nothing for WvW play. The real problem seems to be that some people need to feel like they have better stats in order to feel good about themselves.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

That’s your problem, not ANet’s. If you are unwilling to do what it takes to get Ascended gear (which really isn’t that hard at all, to be honest), that is a decision you chose to make.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

Your individual gameplay habits are irrelevant to that point. If you want personal victories with a guaranteed even playing field (at least equipment, stats wise) there’s always sPvP.

Please, farming mats and nodes and crafting? Of course it isn’t hard, it’s mind-numbingly dull. I chose to not lower myself to doing chores in my free time, and while I don’t mind other people being rewarded for mindless work I object to it being the only way to be rewarded.

And PvP is an option but 5-man teams and 10 minute matches make it feel more like a minigame mode.

Arkanfel.8403:

luckywaldo.6089:

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

By this logic, one would never play WvW in the first place, because of uplevels.

At the macro level, the disadvantage is mutual. Your opponent will have uplevelled characters in their zerg, or people with bad builds or stats.

Guess what? So will your zerg.

There is a threshold here where leveling and exotic weapons are ok but ascended is too much. There are tons of ways to level and get exotic gear quickly, but ascended is far too narrow and forces you into doing certain things, or time-gates. The game is well-balanced and designed for leveling and exotics; it is not for ascended.

And lol at assuming I run in a zerg.

Arkanfel.8403:

Dark Catalyst.1028:

DevonCarver.5370:

Doing so would invalidate the time people spend acquiring that gear. I think the heart of your post is in the right place, but what we would rather do is make possible for people to get the gear by playing WvW with a sprinkling of PvE, rather than the other way around.

So you’re okay with the WvW game being about gear and stat advantages, rather than skill or fun? Good to know that I will be at a continual disadvantage in WvW because I refuse to grind for gear. I specifically came to this game to avoid gear grinds.

>complains about people having better gear
>refuses to get better gear

You best be trollan son.

What if I told you, a competitive spirit does not find satisfaction in winning from an unfair advantage?

The challenge is like that of anything else in the game: those who want to put in the insane efforts deserve to have something to show for it.

Please, crafting ascended weapons ranks extremely low on challenge and very high in mind-numbingly dull farming of materials and gold.

If living story could do the same, than the benefit of the added vertical progression is redundant.

Vayne.8563:

Calae.1738:

Nebilim.5127:

I want the best loot and i want it now!

I’d like to think that an MMO is more about gaming experiences than grinding for new gear. I stopped playing a different MMO because I was sold on that idea.

Ascended rings and accessories brought content along with the grind. What did ascended weapons bring other than a grind?

There’s an answer to this. What ascended weapons brought is people doing content again. Stuff that used to be ignored is now done. You can take a temple in Orr again.

In spite of the fact that I’m against vertical progression on principle, the effect this has had on the traffic in world is huge.

And what happens when the ascended high is over, and the post-ascended crash starts when people get tired of farming and/or feel like they have nothing to progress toward anymore?

Xillllix.3485:

Seven Star Stalker.1740:

Xillllix.3485:

It’s just a game….
There is no point freaking out every time a developer say something might change.

Saying that is easy, but you do realise if Anet can’t stick to their guns, it makes them look fickle, weak, and unworthy to take seriously, right? People respect people who hold to their convictions.

You can already see people are beginning to take Anet’s plans with less and less salt and more and more skepticism. And worst the problem is, not only does Anet change their plans, but it’s poorly implemented. There are many, many, many holes in the implementation of Ascended, and people are irritated because in acquiring it Anet made a “Crafting or GTFO” policy, even if it wasn’t intentional.

Yeah but so why care so much about what they do? When the game cease to be fun you can just move to another game. TESO will come out, GTA5, etc. Personally I like the way the ascended besides the craft levelling.

If there was anything close to WvW, in the scale and persistence and the cooperation in and between guilds and servers, but without grind for the best gear and buffs like applied fortitude, I would be there in a heartbeat.

milo.6942:

I briefly looked for any post to say this, maybe I missed it, but how is everyone in this thread neglecting to mention how dumbfounding it is that a game director doesn’t have a firm grasp on something this crucial to the game’s future? He “hopes” there aren’t going to be more tiers? “this should be it”?? Is he designing the game based on marketing focus groups?

I have the unhappy feeling he is stuck between a rock and a hard place. He wants to make a good game, but must ultimately do what the publisher thinks will make money.

And with regards to whether or not new tiers exist, ascended was added to appease the people who want vertical progression. When these people have full ascended, they will want more vertical progression. They are most likely going to get more vertical progression.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

luckywaldo.6089:

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Sube Dai.8496:

timidobserver.7925:

I vote no.

My favorite thing about WvW is that it doesn’t exist in a vacuum like SPvP. I want full access to the full extent of all gear, traits, and skills and any additions to those things in WvW. I would lose interest in WvW and stop playing if it was turned into Spvp with more people.

And you don’t mind that not everyone else does?

No I don’t.

That is their problem, not mine. If they don’t want to get it, again their problem not mine.

But would you mind if everyone was equal?

I don’t care if they are or not.

I’m not going to accept a change just to make people equal.

If they want the gear, they can go for it, if not that is their problem, not mine.

Everyone has the same opportunity to acquire the gear. No reason to have some kind of programming change just to make those who don’t want it happy. Kitten them. Their problem, not mine. I’d rather see development on other stuff than this kind of change.

Good multiplayer (i.e. balanced) is its own content, and is infinitely superior than pre-created content, because it’s based on the constant evolution of many intelligent (human) enemies. You’re stuck in the mmo box of “work and rewards”, where you get arbitrary (raw stat) advantages from a mindless time investment. That dilutes the meaning of exploring the game mechanics and developing personal skill.

Yes, PvP is ‘pure’ in it’s stats. But currently it feels like a mini-game compared to the scale (in players and persistence) of WvW. Now WvW would never be perfect, but scaling ascended back down to exotic is more than reasonable in the change required and improvement it would make.

CreativeAnarchy.6324:

Sube Dai.8496:

timidobserver.7925:

I vote no.

My favorite thing about WvW is that it doesn’t exist in a vacuum like SPvP. I want full access to the full extent of all gear, traits, and skills and any additions to those things in WvW. I would lose interest in WvW and stop playing if it was turned into Spvp with more people.

And you don’t mind that not everyone else does?

No I don’t.

That is their problem, not mine. If they don’t want to get it, again their problem not mine.

But would you mind if everyone was equal?

Dante.1508:

Ashen.2907:

jayb.1329:

so….you want the strongest gear possible and you want it to be easy to get.

sounds like the typical complainer on these forums

Actually sounds like what Anet said they wanted. Kind of why some people bought the game in the first place.

^ This exactly, i just wish i’d known then when i bought this game what i know now.

^ Him and you and me and many, many others. Guess we are the ‘typical complainers’.

Siphaed.9235:

Corvindi.5734:

Siphaed.9235:

As a “PvE grinder”, I’d like to proclaim that WvW is an extension of the PvE game as a whole. It’s basically the “Open world PvP” that other games have, but without all the ganking and interruption mid-mob kill. However, gear and stats still make it into equitation just as it would in OWPvP like other games. In other words: just deal with it. :P

You grinders were supposed to be able to enjoy your preferred methods of play without forcing others to do the same to keep up stat-wise, though.

How sad that you are the ones who prevailed.

And yet, you are wrong. I’ve been in WvW for the past week and have collected hundreds of Ascended crafting materials. These are dropped from Champions, which incidentally every Keep, Tower, and Camp has at least one mob that fits the classification. Each home-borderland had an array of crafting stations to use. 1+1= fun on a bun. Get it? Yes, I’m essentially stating that you’re able to do a large portion of Ascended via WvWvW. Get to it.

Crafting ascended weapons requires a ratio of 1 dragonite ore : 1 bloodstone dust : 1 empyreal fragment. This means that you may as well have infinite bloodstone dust and empyreal fragments, because we all know that the dragonite ore is the bottleneck, and your materials are only worth as much as the bottleneck.

+1 from me for downscaling to exotic. It’s simple, full exotics are easy to get, full ascended are not. Don’t drag the sink designed to entertain the PvE players into WvW, we don’t need it. Keeping it separated will leave most everyone happy.

(P.S. Do not ever use crafting stations in WvW. Leave the queue open for the people actually playing it)

People who die are like warbanners, for the opposite team!

I have mixed feelings about down-state altogether. I kind of like that there is a medium between alive and dead, where they are mostly incapacitated, but there is still hope to save them in battle by rez or abilities. It just needs to be balanced especially between the classes, perhaps by removing down all state abilities and removing rallying.

It’s like, every single person who is ok with ascended gear doesn’t even know WvW exists, or else only see it as an inefficient way to get loot by tagging bodies in a zerg. All they see in the game is their silly PvE skinner box of “work and rewards”. There is no possible way to argue with them because they want the game to be work.

For me, ascended gear would be perfectly fine if it was downscaled to exotic stats in WvW. Don’t dilute our competitiveness with this extra grind nonsense.

Xom.9264:

@ Pancakez, Jakare likes to taunt larger guilds he just does not like them same with most BS folks. But if it helps, you’re actually one of the very few larger guild we have to play carefully when fighting.

I think this is the first time we had a back and forth with a larger guild… all the talk of Vs wiping ETs larger guilds with fewer numbers got us interested. Now when we know you are on a map we come looking, its enjoyable fighting.

You’re tactics and builds are meant to bust the giant lag ball zergs and you do it well, I get it the stacking and staying in a ball you have to do that when facing 40 with 20 else get melted by AoE. Our builds and focus is to take on reasonable size ‘zergs’, we really are just a chaotic uncontrolled bunch of solo/small scale artists that kind of sort of play as a group. Two guilds focused on polar opposite playstyle, some BS folks will troll a bit even me time to time dont let it bug you.

@TeambattleAxe, LOL, your ok in my book.

Don’t worry, Pancakez enjoys a little heat on the forums. And trust me, whenever BS comes up in our voice chat, there is nothing but respect.

I’m actually really glad you guys tend to run more survivable builds. Some people I know still think that running zerker gear is for the highest level of skill, but I personally don’t like bursty builds. I think there is a lot to be said for people who can take a longer engagement and consistently out-perform their opponent to the end. And you guys are are great example of how that works.

That said, don’t rest easy. You have it easy now while VS is very young and new and most people are still finishing builds and training for their classes. We will be sure to only make it harder for you guys from here on out. >:D

1.
HGH is about boon/might stacking for lots of damage, and if you using, ’nades, bombs, or FT, yeah that is a lot of aoe damage and does great vs mobs.

2.
Unfortunately it is not that great in dungeons, because the content allows players to stack in one spot and and share boons with little effort. You will be better suited to design for combo-blasting fire fields so that everyone in your group is getting might and not just you (Bomb kit is good for this). Basically, you and everyone else in your group should always have 25 might stacks even without HGH.

3.
Yes, HGH is by nature hybrid, because might is boosting both raw power and condition damage, and grenade damage stacks well with both. It so happens that the PvP meta favors condition builds, so that’s how PvP HGH engies roll. Going power/prec is a great alternative for PvE.

4.
You also need level 60 to unlock grenadier master trait, which is the only point at which grenades are usable, so do not go ‘nades. If you are leveling in PvE I recommend bombs, as even just the auto-attack does really solid aoe damage. The traits don’t really matter much after that, although I would go for Forceful Explosives and Short Fuse in the power line.

To be fair, it was just one AR guy.

For the rest, respect to you for sticking with your server through the storm, and still taking WvW head-on against the odds. I hope you see better times ahead.

O7

XelNigma.6315:

If supply create is one of the stronger elites of the game then the game has some pretty kitten poor elites.

Most of the time on the classes I play I would prefer to have a 4th utility slot than an elite skill slot.

The turrets tend to suffer from the general turret-suckage. They are no good against things beyond their range, vulnerable to aoe, and generally stupid in regards to targetting pets/minions/clones. And “Movable” describes everything it isn’t.

I think the absolute ideal situation for supply crate is against a lone thief, as that class’s strength lies in 1v1 melee, and can’t take advantage of the turret weaknesses the way most other classes can.

So it’s an awkward situational elite. Sometimes it feels unbelievable OP when it turns around a 1v1 fight, and sometimes it’s basically just a 2-sec stun on a 3-minute cooldown. What I would recommend doing is working with your engineer buddies to figure out how your class can best take advantage of those weaknesses.

Specterryu Quipter.8412:

I’m going to say this, and probably get flamed at but w/e. Necro has the worst down state due to their lack of health when downed. Period. End of Story.

This isn’t a big deal because it is only in PvE. Just waypoint and try again.

Down state balance is only really important in PvP where it can make a difference between winning and losing a game.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/Necromancer-PvE-downed-state-health/first

Not all #2 abilities have the same effectiveness at delaying a finisher, and not all #3 skills have equal cast time.

On my thief I find that I can put #3 to use rather frequently, whereas on engineer it is almost always just out of reach. Seriously, that cast time makes a massive difference. I can’t count how many times I die just as booby trap animation starts.

Choops.3710:

That was months ago. What changed between now and then that made it OP? This is a genuine question, I haven’t been around.

There have been no buffs during the last 3 months if that is what you are wondering. Actually, last major patch nerfed elixir S and incendiary powder trait, and implimented some boon-hate traits and skills in other classes. (If you gear everything toward getting 20+ stacks of might there is nothing to do against a S/D thief but cry)

So its a little worse than 3 months ago. But it’s still a great build and it has gained popularity. That’s really all there was to it; people just became more aware of it.

With just the trait tree alone engineers have 2245 total power.

Base power is 916 plus 300 from trait line, for 1216 power.

I’m still lost on where the aoe burn comes from. Nades are an aoe, but incendiary powder is only going to activate on one crit at a time, so one target at a time.

Also as far as I know sigil of battle is still on the chopping block for a nerf, which will shut down a lot of might stacking for ele and engie. So have a bit of kitten patience with it.

Rule #1 of being an engineer is to never get too attached to any trait or utility, because it’s probabably going to end up being changed.

Unless it’s a trait that another class shares for fewer points. Like the 30-point trait for 50% extra endurance regeneration that rangers have at 5-points. Go ahead at get comfortable with that, because it isn’t going anywhere.

Or else something that has random effects, like thrown elixirs. You can be assured that those will continue to be random.

But for the most part you can’t play the class and try to be good at it. You can only play and have fun with how goofy and crazy it is. And maybe accidentally do some damage when someone gets in the way of your engie antics. (Never get in the way of engie antics)

OP is comparing apples to oranges and making no sense at all.

The only major complaint I have with engineer is how terrible we are in downed state, being pretty much tied with warriors and necros. I even recently watched a livestream of devs playing WvW as a small raiding party, and he specifically mentioned that they prefered ele, mesmer, and thief because of their superior downed states.

To change the topic a bit from FT, I would recommend taking a look at medkit or turret for your heal. Elixir H is a little underwhelming even when traited. (Or really just medkit and turret are really kitten good).

Pistol is really weak by itself, particularly when untraited.

I would recommend maybe swapping utility googles for bomb kit, as many of your existing traits benefit bombs, and they will contribute to your effectiveness more than a bit of fury/vuln anyway. (Also stun breakers aren’t really needed in just PvE)

Maiden England.3491:

why are you guys bashing on the OP? he just posted a thread about his personal opinion of the classes. you may think differently, as I, of a class or two than he does, but you still get the kittening point…

Damage is math. It is kind of stupid to form opinions on math solutions as an alternative to actually working them out.

Rhodeo.7318:

The closest thing we have to a 25%+ movement signet, is the trait ‘Power Shoes’. However, it only activates in combat, and requires 20 points into Inventions

Many Engineers just run Speedy Kits to maintain perma-swiftness. I don’t know if signets stack with swiftness, but if they don’t, then we have the better deal.

Swiftness does not stack with signets, and speedy kits is way better than a signet in most circumstances in PvE/WvW/PvP.

The only time I miss it is those occasions where I need to hold something, like the swamp or colossus fractals, and can’t swap kits.

Obviously it was about the 2x super elixir.

I haven’t played with the new healing turret but if that is true, it’s huge, and I am rather excited to try it out. I can’t really imagine it lasting though. After all the 2x super elixir was considered OP and that even required a trait.

Accept it or not: engineer is a powerful class as the jack of all roles in a game with no roles.

I feel like this was true back when there was a kit refinement trait. I haven’t played fractals, or actually, PvE at all since it was removed.

I wouldn’t mind a guide on what engie can bring to fractals, in addition to ’nades+grenadier as that is pretty much a given still.

MrForz.1953:

Penguin.5197:

Zeebok.1460:

I’m Zeebok, and I approve this topic.

I am Penguin and I approve your approval.

I am.. Oh well screw this.

I approve screwing this.

I’ve been under the impression for a while that:

0 kit = awful and you will be far behind everyone else
1 kit = what areanet wants you to do
2 kit = ok but it hurts to lose that utility compared to 1 kit
3 kit = you haven’t played the game since before kit refinement change

(note: for utilities, not including heal/medkit)