This is by design. We allow duo queues to pair up against full pre-made teams, but not a full group of solo queues. We changed this during Season 2.
As for the spread, it’s because those players are grouped up. For example, the Amber on Red Team is brought up to Sapphire level because they’re pairing with a Sapphire player. The Blue Team has Ruby players on it because they’re most likely in early Ruby which puts them within the range of upper tier Sapphire players for the purposes of matchmaking. The Emerald player is subsequently brought up because they’re grouped with higher division players.
I know that match-ups like this may seem off-kilter at first glance, but it’s entirely within the parameters we’ve set in the matchmaking algorithm and definitely by design. It looks like it was a close match though, so I’m glad you had fun!
only and adjustement is required in case of full teams vs pugs and only a duo q to go for a even match: the pugs need to be beter individuals that the indiuviduals full team, the team has in his favor voice com for cordination and teorically can work as a team to outplay better individuals, the solo queuers not. puting a team whith one or two better players than all of individuals on the other side is going for a blow out, teams can play vs individuals and get a close match only if the individual skills of solo players are a bit better than the team individuals. in terms of adjusting mmr for even matches the team hasve to be considered a little better than the sum or coeficient or whar uses the sistem of all the individuals in it
the only fails of season 1:
-unclear pip asignement
-fair machmaker but exploitable(the major fail is because players exploiting this)
fails of s2
-mm
no, s1 was not worse, players make it worse exploiting the mm sistem, and now in s2 the exploiters get a reward via a viased mm….
THX ANET
and for those who talk about the “pros” carring and other kittens: a league sistem whith random teams is it: we can get matched whith everyone on our div or pip range againts a team generated of random people in the same div/range, not a trick who generates magicaly top teams vs noob teams
(edited by megilandil.7506)
nothing rare, teams are paired considering the league of higher player, you are emeralds, rubis and one diamond playing whith diamonds, this time not is mmr or mmr hell, are you making a dispar team
(edited by megilandil.7506)
the problem of “easy play” reapers is the “necrowave” that asolate the mid low divs, players whith no tactic ideas of how to win a match only camping mid and zerking whith the other reapers (games whith 3 ,4 or 5 reapers in a team )
pros can say reaper are low mobile and blah blah but mid low games had not great team cordinations for overrotating and avoiding the zerkplay and be permafeared and permachilled dont help to try to do something agains them
and those player who climbed via the necrowave are those who cause part of the great imbalancement of mid-low play they get a lot of reapers:they win, they are the only reaper in a team: they are a 0 contributors to team
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no
the way is incentivate players to stay in the division that reached (perhaps a bonus multiplier reguards and mf in it)not to create alt acounts
losing divisions will make a lot of players once reached legend stop play for not descending and the others simply because interminable queue times
asume that: population is low and losing divs will maintain top tier divisions much low populated
and the mid low players the last we want is “pros” trolling in oir divs whith alts
Burn Guard
1 Insufficient damage
2 Insufficient Protection (damage reduction and reflection)
3 Insufficient self sustain (healing)Laughed so hard here.
yes and no, i played and liked the burnerguardian, has heals and defenses but burns them to maximize the burn burts. is the perfect definition of high risk/ high reward build basicaly is a kamikaze: jump in to melee drop the burts bomb and try to run because you have all def skills in cd
What? I think you need to try a different burn build tbh.
maybe This one It has a lot of condi removal and a lot of blocks. It also has balanced burn application so you don’t have to do the kamikaze bomb burst and run technique.
i was talking of the old one.
thanks a lot for the info i will try it. tired a bit of the dh pew pew kitten
io doub i can help you improve, unfortunately now im a medium low player stuck in low divs
(edited by megilandil.7506)
Burn Guard
1 Insufficient damage
2 Insufficient Protection (damage reduction and reflection)
3 Insufficient self sustain (healing)Laughed so hard here.
yes and no, i played and liked the burnerguardian, has heals and defenses but burns them to maximize the burn burts. is the perfect definition of high risk/ high reward build basicaly is a kamikaze: jump in to melee drop the burts bomb and try to run because you have all def skills in cd
Why do we always have people telling the devs how to build the characters, rework them, rebalance them or nerf them?
IT MAKES ME SO MAD.
They do a great job. I cringe enough as it is thinking about the possibility they will wreck my characters any more than they already have.
My power MESMER IS USELESS NOW after I put all that time and effort into her ascended gear and weapons. I don’t know what to do with her now. I can’t even work with her effectively in pve let alone pvp.
STOP NERFING AND STOP TELLING DEVS TO REBALANCE OR NERF OR REWORK CLASSES.
end rant. (I’ll feel better after a cookie.)
this is PVP oriented forum, and all the proposers asume that anet have to take soon the skill split pve/pvp.
pvp equilibrium needs a continuos tweek(for that reason pvp equipmen is free :-) ) if you tweek down an hability other can be op and if you tweek up and hability other can run useless in an enless spiral
@posters who want elites “nerfed” instead
Difficulty was increased with hot and elites were designed with that in mind…
Players want tougher and tougher content, and max level characters need to be up to the task….
Also, this game needs more viable and competitive builds.
1) PvP difficulty went way down with the introduction of elites because the skillfloor/cap for the elites is much lower than the core specs.
2) PvE issue. Not applicable here.
3) There have never been fewer viable builds in PvP…HoT killed build diversity.
2 is the core of the problem if they dont take the split way, pve isues are pvp isues
+1 to FrownyClown.
Your balance suggestions across all of your threads focus around buffing everything that’s weak (and weird buffs to things that are already incredibly strong) instead of nerfing everything that’s overpowered. This is a poor direction for the game to go because it promotes mindless spam for both DPS and sustain.
For example:
Your quickdraw change kills the trait and makes no sense—it’s a bad version of warrior’s fast-hands in a GM spot; what? Your shortbow trait change is just making it a worse longbow, and SB doesn’t need cooldown reduction at all since the cooldowns are already so low. Your Beastly Warden and Zephyr’s speed is just straight unnecessary power creep on two of the best GM traits available to the ranger. You want Troll unguent to just a better warrior healing signet? I could go on, but these changes look like they were made by someone who doesn’t play the ranger class, and I’m sorry if that sounds harsh but I intend this as constructive feedback.It’s a really great effort and a good thing you’re trying to do, but I 100% disagree with the underlying philosophy behind the changes (i.e., buffs, sometimes nonsensical ones) based on my experience (4k games, 1 legend account and 1 diamond account).
its more posible a power up of the other clases than a general nerf or worse, a rotation of classes OP :
Anet dont want to split skills pve/pvp and for the raid contents a nerf will be dramatic
So it’s not fair because some players are too good?
no its not fair for staking “goods” in a team and “bads” in the other
a fair sistem is: aprox same mmr versus same mmr or same div versus same div in teams made by pure random not a bad mix of the two
Helseth always thinks he’s carrying. But if you watch his games he’s usually running around all match. He hardly ever kills anything. So his team is fighting 4v5 most of the match and all he does is shout at his team, put ports and yells “free kill” when he uses moa. If anything he is being carried.
“- then the possible drunk person, afk, dc, person not trying at all”
This is more like half the games you are in. The way the matchmaking system is designed it creates this situation.
carrying: what a joke a player can be carried if he teams up whith a superior team who can 4v5 the match but one single cant do 1v5 cap points and defend while the others just stay in respawn point. if one can really do this, yes, he is carrying the team. if not, he is only the MVP doing more than the other but no all the job
You can’t all be the 4.5% only at certain times of day.
the 4.5% of the model analisis in the other post is just a “ideal” situation, now put in the game alt acounts of “pro”, better players that starts the league after, the average mmr of the new ones that can carry them to a league greatter than her real skill, teams of one of your mmr and her noob friends, and …..
and that 4.5 increases dramatically
this mm states that they can bring in a few weeks an ideal situation where players are layered in div by her skill and then ofer equilibrated matches , but they cant
When it comes to game design, there is an overwhelming importance for solid foundations, and sound positions. Sadly, very few people in the gaming industry have these. In many cases like guild wars, it’s more or less coders doing design aspects; the simple truth is your not a good designer just because you can code.
The concept of “every spec is good” is a dream, one that has not been realized yet, and which will likely never happen. I am of the opinion that we are no where near close enough to the ability to do this, especially with the current mindset our industry has of “copy paste” concepts from other games.
This means, that Guild Wars 2, In my opinion will never get the concept of “all specs are good” Right. Why Do you ask? I’ll explain.
Complexity Vs Depth
It’s a bit tricky to explain the difference of complexity and depth, so i wont go to much into it but the simple way i put of defining the two is as follows
- Complexity is an option, that will benefit another through investigation of the situation, and what benefits might arise from finding out how to exploit that situation.
- Depth is an option, which is clear at first glance (the first time you read it) and requires little or no further thought or investigation.
Now that we have fined these lets look at why the game will never be balanced
Describing the situation of the game in a metaphorical way
“the balance cycle of gw2 is equal to a doctor giving pain killers to kill the pain, only to ignore what is causing it. If you want to stop the pain, you cure the problem, not conceal it”
understanding the metaphor
Basically in a short, the current development process is something to the effect of, nerf buff nerf buff nerf buff. It’s an endless cycle, and it will never end if you continue to repeat it in this manner.
Why?
The reason for this is because there is a lot of shifting parts. Lets say we have a list, something like
1 Power
2 Condition
3 PrecisionFrom this list, we have this situation that the meta in general favors option 1 ) power.
After a nerf, condition comes up, and then it gets nerfed to give way to precision. This cycle will repeat over and over. Expecting a different result will only designate you as an insane person.This is important to understand because this is the exact situation that is taking place. however, the game does not need to be like this. hence we come to the metaphor.
So What Gives? What is the cure for the disease?
This question brings us to a very important discussion and before i give an answer to this i want to point out some very important points.
First we have to meet some conclusions
- The majority of players do not have the desire, or the time to invest in finding broken builds.
- Complexity offers no benefit that depth does not, and brings with it major problems, including game decline and potential population limits, and major instabilities in balance.The disease
In truth, the major problem to game balance is the developers way they go about doing their development process. What i mean by this is that they are not well founded in their foundation concepts for the games balance.
For Example lets look at blizzard
- blizzard understands how to use metrics, where many others do not. this is probably due to the people in charge of values like this being more founded in math then most coders are. in short, their specialists are good.
- part of the reason blizzard is so good at what they do is because they are very well founded in base concepts, think of them as the gaming worlds version of isaac newtons laws of physics ,only for gaming. these concepts include things like (but not limited to)
- sticking to their concepts with an iron fist (your laws are only good if you stick to them)
- Keeping livability rates in target time frames.
for example, 20-30 seconds is the sweet spot for fast game pvp (Which is where gw2 should be imo)- adjusting anything that does not offer competitive play, or is overly competitive
- Keeping an important rule in mind “game development is not just coding, its also psychology”
- Paying attention to play trending and demands, so you keep everything “balanced”.
- putting classes into key aspects of game play
- Last and most importantly, they recognize that there is a breaking point. It took me a few years of game balance work to even become conscious of this, but in short there is a “golden ratio” to game balance across all genre, that is a max variance of 13%. It seems that when classes differ from other classes by an amount greater than this they become broken. This is a general application there is a few situations where it can be exceeded slightly, but the true target “gold zone” is about 8.5%.
- Understanding how to make both aspects of the player base happy (Hardcore/softcore).
Recently blizzard made a bold move to define the value of “skill” a previously very subjective and highly debated concept. They did this by defining it as “ability to micromanage”. In Warlords of draenor this ended up meaning “tracking /proc/buff management” This is highly important, because it gave hardcore players the ability to exceed the casual players due to their skill, but retained the principle of the “golden ratio”. As a result they came out with a system that was balance no matter if your casual or hardcore, but rewarded you marginally for being good, and skilled.
Gw2 and how it fits in
We look at guild wars 2 we seem to come into issues when it comes to such principles, for example
- there is a massive variance in damage rates of each class, but those classes retain superior survivabiltiy rates. A great example of this is the necro’s reaper shroud.
- In many cases a class invalidates itself, again point in case is shroud, and repear shroud.
- in many cases, some classes are near unkillable because of having massive amounts of stability issues when it comes to addressing survivability rates. Examples are Guardian, and elementalists perma 33% Protection builds.
- in some cases classes depend on a very specific build, or would other wise be highly ineffective in pvp. A great example is elementalist. Auramancer is probably the only really competitive build of the class. Other specs just dont compete with it.
- In many cases skills are very unpractical, which violates the concept of makings things feel psychologically feel “good”. For example elementalists dagger abilities for lighing basic attack is highly unpractical for a some what squishy class.
- In some cases, their is classes that offer so much damage, they instantly kill someone. Examples of this are thief, and dragon hunter.
So to sum all of this up, this game will never be balanced until major issues are addressed, these issues have nothing to do with what to change as much as they do to guide the developers in the direction of how to implement changes.
For this reason the game is destined to repeat this cycle of massive instabilities.
I call on the development team to engage me in some form or way to discuss these things. My teamspeak is open to anyone who is wanting to have conversations about them (as well as the devs) contact me via pm to obtain the info (additionally if your a clan that needs a voice chat we can set up you with a place on our ts, we have a 500 slot server).
Thanks for the read.
there is a simple reason, they dont want to split skills into pve/pvp and the inclusion of high end content(raid) makes nerfs a dramatic situation that can make inviable the raid
Everyone does have a fair shot at winning assuming they can work together as a team, have a decent team comp, and know how to play. You’re not going to get a win simply by showing up.
you clairly havent read how works the machmaking this season
no is not bad, is horrible
a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and against a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions
making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem
1) It should cross divisions like it currently does. It would not be fair for those on the lower end of the division to be paired against those on the higher end. A closer match would be between those at the lower end for the next division and those on the higher division of the previous.
2) What you want is completely even teams is difficult unless there’s a large enough population in the queue at any given time. Unless you’re willing to sit in queue for an extended period of time, you’re going to get matches that have a wider range of skill level and team comps.
1) then the term “divisions” is inapropiate: a player only has to play with players of the same div(exception made probably of the last pips to show they cant be in sup division, a class of “promotion play” and if they are a posible loss of div this only can ocurr after losing matches agains players of the lower div) as it ocurrs on many sports that made leagues div divided
2) even teams can ocurr at mid season wen players are alocated fine in divisions and stop when you get your top
the main problem to div sistem are :
1) premades that disrupt the play last season they adjust premade to the low rank or to a ponderate rank of the players and this was exploited by “pros” taking alt acounts whith low rank to lower the rank of team and get ez wins, now it gets the higer rank and that disrups that you can get someone of your rank playing whith his no handed friend kitening your entire game
2)reward sistem ( same reward in all divs) make top player not to stay in their divs and take alts to troll in lower divs
no is not bad, is horrible
a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and again a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions
making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem
Matchmaking is based of pip range first of all. In the end winners will move on beyond your pip range. ’So less and less good players ppl with super high winrates will be left at your pip range.
And what do u think is fair? Mixing teams up? So a few get carried hard while others have to carry hard …..yet they will be treated equally reward wise (eventho that carrying guy might be 2-3 times as good).
a league is a league and the sistem i said is league sistem, the mmr clausule aded is a trick to rig the sistem to favour “high skilled” players but this kittens the essence of league sistems, it can be introduced week one or two to wash out the pros from low divs or make these pros starts in a upper div depending of div reached in pasts leagues but making these trick during all league only makes kitten
and in pure random league only some too lucky ones “bad players” get carried
no is not bad, is horrible
a fair league sistem may grant any player for a pip range(a full div in my opinion) may get teamed with any player in the same range and against a team of the same comp and probably ad some class stack restrictions
making loser/winner predeterminate teams is not a fair league sistem
(edited by megilandil.7506)
Lol i can figure the name of the guy, and i sufered him also