They apply revealed because its supposed to be a counterplay, and then deadeye is allowed to just remove revealed at will, on a skill with the ammo system no less.
As already said – you can still counter invisible thieves (or mesmers, or rangers, or engis,… stealth isnt thief-exclusive!) by cleaving and random AoE. Have you ever tried to backstab anyone these days? Chances are, you’ll die of non-targetted AoE, before you even get the opportunity.
1) That’s the point of invuln, perhaps you misunderstand the meaning of it.
2) They’re supposed to.
3)
- Mist Form – can’t fight back or heal
- Elixir S – can’t fight back or heal
- Renewed Focus – can’t fight back or heal
That’s 3 out of 6, which isn’t most, it’s half. Distortion and obsidian flesh both have long cd’s. Vapor form doesn’t really count since it’s a downstate ability.
4) Again it’s called invuln for a reason, not damage reduction. Don’t know why this is so hard for you to grasp.
So in short, no, there shouldn’t be a counter. You make a mechanic to counter invuln then it will open the flood gates to make counters to counters and the cycle will never stop, removing the significance of it all together.
Countless
Its not “hard to grasp” for me. I understand what invuln does and I dont want to change the way it works. I only want counterplay, because it feels just so cheesy that multiple classes have a “oh-kitten” button or passive trait, that counters a whole playstyle.
Plus, I am no friend of a defensive meta where nobody dies and its completely normal to hold back various enemy burst classes by just being immune to everything they do or having a ridiculous amount of heal and invuln (looking at guards & druids) and STILL do enough damage to kill folks.
Obviously, it should be gated. If every class gets counters to this, it’s stupid. But I see an opportunity here to get some classes back into the meta. Most people think, thieves are redundant and prefer other classes in their teams. Im not sure about revs, but I think I remembered, that ppl prefered other classes over them too. Give a counter to ONLY THESE CLASSES and you’ll have new meta builds and a new role for them to fill.
Still glad to see that some people like my idea
you want to remove invuln on passives … easy… remove firts thief and any other class that cant start a burts combo from stealth( or simply remove stealth stupid mechanic but removing thief and his stupid spam mechanic (spam 3 on d/d spam 3 on p/p , you counter with a block or a evade or what the kitten have your class… great you have a long cd and they cant just respam) is a great thing to improve all the game balance mechanics)… after this is no need of the oh kitten auto proc
this person with the 6 top stats can be “better” than the others of his team… but “worse” than any one of the opositte team
I bet if u are gold and your team is silver u will be ok to face plat and legendary opponents only. We all deserve the match and ofc the loss with it. Nothing wrong. In all scenarios, no one deserves such games. This is considered a handicap.
The other part of your post is logical only on paper, unfortunately, it never happens.
20.1%? Seriously, do you believe this for all 6 stats?
This guy was healing, damaging, capping points, defending points, reviving and everything else, better than the other 4 players.. ALL THESE THINGS. Do you know how hard is to have a top offense and top defense and at the same time top dmg, top kills, top healing and top revive?
just saying scenarios where you can get a lot of top stats and you not deserving any “special treatment”
stacked matches arent fair and im not telling they are, but is a posible scenario , sadly a current scenario.
and more important awarding top stats will made game more toxic, people more concerned on chasing stats than real contributing to win… seen a lot of times games where the decisive factor is a thief chasing free decaps/caps and not being awarded with any top
Don’t know about your “normal” criteria but for me isn’t normal to get top kills+top dmg+top healing+top offense/defense/revives
Top stats is a metric, just like your PVP rating. It is there so it means something. In fact it shows exactly something – that you have made the most dmg/heal/revives etc…
You are telling me that dmg/heal/offense/defense doesn’t matter.
You can achieve 1-2 top stats very easy, how about your heal bot to achieve 4-5-6 top stats ? Will it be strange for you if your healbot got top dmg, kills and offense? I gues not with your logic.
The most important question is: does this person with 6 top stats deserve the loss as the other 4 players get, with no top stats at all? Is he fairly matched with his team?
this person with the 6 top stats can be “better” than the others of his team… but “worse” than any one of the opositte team and he “deserves” the lots equal to others of his team , clearly is a case of stacked match but that happens
other extreme example, imagine all players get 20% aprox contrib to each one stat , the one that get the top stat for doing 20.1% is “better” than the one whith 20.05? in this escenario a player poerforming equal to the others can get 1,2… all or nothing doing the “same” of the others
the fact you get the top stat is less important someone have to get it, the % to the top stat says more than " top stat"
you get 20% aprox you do your share of stat, you get significant more than 20% you overperformed in those stat get or not top stat, you do much less than 20% you dont contributed much in those stat
i think they have to give more information like position in every stat to get a more acurate picture
Sometimes you just know you are on a team of lesser skilled players. As you can see, we got roflstomped and none of my stats were very impressive, yet I swept all top stats. This way the ragers which AFK will play too.
This will stop the ragers from afk. The good players will have reason to play. The bad players wont lose more than they have been losing before.
Edit: I’m not sure how to correctly format a picture post.
THIS
Tired of such matches. It is wrong to have 1000 matches and have 2500-3000 (for example) top stats awarded but still to have more than 50% of the games lost. This means that EACH match you have 2-3 stats top but still, lose the game. Which means you are constantly playing better than your team, which means that the game puts weaker players in your team and not players that match your skill, which means you play with a handicap. And I AM OK with this as long as I don’t lose so much rating. IMO make it, if you have 2 top stats to lose half and if you have 3 top stats – to lose 1/3 or 1/4… And if you have 4+ top stats u should lose only 1 (like symbolical) or nothing because clearly, something is wrong with the team then.
Top stats mean nothing…someone have to get it and some are very class related … play a ele healboot and you get ever the heal top stat, play a bunker and dont move from mid you get the defense top stat play a scraper and easili you get top res etc etc.
The reason they get punished for losses is they aren’t playing people of their skill level. if the average MMR of the team you play is lower than your MMR you will lose more points than you can get for a win.
This is partly due to matchmaking, but it is also due to people queue dodging people at or above their ability level.
Losses when matched against a team of an equal averaged MMR are far far more punishing than a win against the same team at high ratings. What you are talking about has definitely been the intent and design in the past as far as I know, but it isn’t currently implemented well.
edited for an example (note this is not an isolated incident i am describing)
A duo queued team of 2 people in ~top 25 with 3 plat players on their team pitted against two duos in top 25 with 1 plat on their team play against one another.
Either team wins they will get 5-9 rating. Either team loses they will end up with typically a -15(at least) loss. FAIRLY equivalent matchmaking, maybe weighted slightly in the 4 legendary players favor, but the point distribution will be nearly identical regardless of outcome, and the loss, one way or the other, will result in a massive (3 fold +) deficit.
the problem is the q dodging again, the system for calculating win/loss points uses your mmr againts the rival average mmr and q dodging, off ours playing etc etc makes that even if the rival team are packed with other top duo your mmr is to high compared to average mmr of rivals due to filling teams with players of much less mmr (that drags down teams average mmr), if tops dont try to exploit the system and play in high population hours they will get their matches filled whith top 250 players and their win/loss points will be more compensated
Even with closely matched MMR ratings between the teams the loss will typically end up with a 3-5 fold greater rating deduction than had the same team won. I’ve seen it dozens of times, and I attribute that to be one of the main incentives for people to engage in q dodging in the first place. I have had 20 point losses against teams where all 5 players are rated higher than myself and 9 point gains in the same scenario. And these are both with several dozen games into the season, so it definitely cannot be attributed to early season mmr adjustment either.
a little overpunishment for losing in the ones that are on top places is ok, they cant pretend maintain their ranking with a 50% w/l ratio
The reason they get punished for losses is they aren’t playing people of their skill level. if the average MMR of the team you play is lower than your MMR you will lose more points than you can get for a win.
This is partly due to matchmaking, but it is also due to people queue dodging people at or above their ability level.
Losses when matched against a team of an equal averaged MMR are far far more punishing than a win against the same team at high ratings. What you are talking about has definitely been the intent and design in the past as far as I know, but it isn’t currently implemented well.
edited for an example (note this is not an isolated incident i am describing)
A duo queued team of 2 people in ~top 25 with 3 plat players on their team pitted against two duos in top 25 with 1 plat on their team play against one another.
Either team wins they will get 5-9 rating. Either team loses they will end up with typically a -15(at least) loss. FAIRLY equivalent matchmaking, maybe weighted slightly in the 4 legendary players favor, but the point distribution will be nearly identical regardless of outcome, and the loss, one way or the other, will result in a massive (3 fold +) deficit.
the problem is the q dodging again, the system for calculating win/loss points uses your mmr againts the rival average mmr and q dodging, off ours playing etc etc makes that even if the rival team are packed with other top duo your mmr is to high compared to average mmr of rivals due to filling teams with players of much less mmr (that drags down teams average mmr), if tops dont try to exploit the system and play in high population hours they will get their matches filled whith top 250 players and their win/loss points will be more compensated
You arnt supposed to be able to clear them all all the time.
You arent supposed to be able to stack burning to 3k with only auto attacks, but here we are
from autos… mmmm before this you should be dead…
suposing you are talking about the burn guard to get 8 stacks from autos you need to take 24 autos if traited (1 stack for 3 hits)or 40(1 stack for kittens) if not traited…(and burning duration is to low to stack it from autos) … to get those 8 stack they have to do more than autos(procing blocks, zealots flame/procing radiant fire….)
yes conditions have to be presure damage over time and… there couldnt be classes that are efectively inmune to condis and others that can perpetual cleanse them… if condi cleanses are so abundant condis needs to be bursty to be a thing… to fix condis first have to fix availavility of condi cleanses and condi inmunitys
from the point of view of a poor silver/ low gold scrub(me) problem whith the condi spam becomes dramatic when you get a 3rd condi user in enemy team, builds and players are ok whith the usuall 2 condi users you get , a mess and a necro, but in the mix you put a condi ranger or a burn guardian (two weak specs with a high condi burst)there is no clean to manage it if you dont have a pocket ele cleandbot that completely nullify the 3 condi users.
as said many times there is no condi meta, condis are balanced with the insane amount of condi cears but … when more than half enemy team run condis and you dont have the cleanse major ofender (ele) near this becomes broken and unplayable
good ones boost the bad ones and those drag down the good ones.
So, like you just said “in a pure random solo q you get your doze of boneheads, your doze of decent players and your doze of better than you players and that is what determine your rank”. This is not personal rank, this is rank of random chance of what you get in the que, by your own words it’s obvious that you understand even if you still haven’t figured it out for yourself yet. The law of averages doesn’t apply when the parameters aren’t identical on each sample.
Further, this "In a team q format the skill of members have a tendence to throw a illusory mid term rank of “real skills”, the good ones boost the bad ones and those drag down the good ones." Is exactly what is happening in solo que and producing the ranking frustrations we have. Do you read this stuff before you post it? It doesn’t matter how good or bad I am in solo que, the outcome is a sum of the parts, the parts of course being, THE TEAM!!!!
“Get good and carry” is a nonsensical argument that is at best situationally functional. It’s a team based play mode.
You further make my case for me with “some classes at a true equal skill level have low odds to beat others, in a 1v1 system you can determine who is the better guard , warrior… or the most boring ele or druid but not the best player” ANet determines our comps for us and when the majority of your team can’t read the comp and switch to another class accordingly that should obviously be reflected in your rank…….
Weeeehoooo, I’m starting to understand the general PvP mentality now.
1) its the law of large numbers, for normal players, not outliers in extremes of the skill curve, the odds to get each type of players in long term are the same
2) this exactly why it should be a pure randon q, if terms of equation ( the match) are always the same its imposible to determine the real value of each term (the player) if terms varies every time the system can create an “equation system” and isolate and solve terms
3) the reroll option(and also not specific rols purely determinet ) is the cause of this kittened system if you are a 1500 rank player whith main X class ¿are you sure that you can compete at 1500 level with class Y?
said many times, ranked is for building a personal rank, team qing (duo included) only shadows your gaming skills whith the ones of your friends. Only form of calculating that personal rank is pure solo random q.
ways for team playing have to be implemented, there are now AT but this isnt enought it seems for the ones who want to play in teams, if a ranked team play exist have to be for ranking teams without afectation to individual score and for estable teams, pug teams have no sense in any sort of team ranked
Personal rank in a team based environment where your success depends on at least 60% of your team being on close to the same page?!? If you think this results in accurately calculating personal rank….. Let the absurdity of this argument sink in for at least a second. Now that it’s sunk in, realize that this is what ANet has determined as “good”. Your personal rank is tied directly to your team…..
My gaming skills are being shadowed, no drowned, by the average of at least 2-3 boneheads I end up stuck with. The only accurate way to calculate personal rank/ability is in a 1v1 environment.
Ranked is also the only source for pip’d rewards and ascension achievements which is a primary reason it becomes jam packed with people that have no clue what to do and no desire to improve as long as the rewards roll in. Shockingly, there is a large majority of players that would like to earn these AND have a real shot at winning.
another: i lose cuz the others are bad i play no fault
this is a false argument, in a pure random solo q you get your doze of boneheads, your doze of decent players and your doze of better than you players and that is what determine your rank, the times that you can carry the bonneheads and the times you drag down the better than you players.
In a team q format the skill of members have a tendence to throw a illusory mid term rank of “real skills”, the good ones boost the bad ones and those drag down the good ones.
the 1v1 solution is not in a game where classes are important, some classes at a true equal skill level have low odds to beat others, in a 1v1 system you can determine who is the better guard , warrior… or the most boring ele or druid but not the best player
said many times, ranked is for building a personal rank, team qing (duo included) only shadows your gaming skills whith the ones of your friends. Only form of calculating that personal rank is pure solo random q.
ways for team playing have to be implemented, there are now AT but this isnt enought it seems for the ones who want to play in teams, if a ranked team play exist have to be for ranking teams without afectation to individual score and for estable teams, pug teams have no sense in any sort of team ranked
Previously, if you had someone on your team disconnect from a match for 2 minutes or more, and your team loses the match, only the person who disconnected would lose rating.
We’ve decided to lower this timer to 90 seconds.
My sequence when i have a short net dc….
1/ game stalls for a seconds..
2/game throws dc mesage
3/game goes to select screen or restarts
3.1 /have to relog
4/ have to reload hotm
5/ have to reload pvp arena
now i have game in kitten but a year ago when i dont have the ssd this proces tokes easily 90 secs
you have to adress the “reload hotm” thing atleast to facilitate players dcd for tech isues to rejoin quickly
to be cynical- do y’all want these players banned for any reason but to prove gw2 pvp is not a joke?
if that’s the reason, it’s not a good one. because it wont work.
===
if that line didn’t work with you, consider this:
why would a game company ban popular streamers who make them money? especially with the expansion coming. it’s just a poor move. these people make anet money, & anet quite blatantly doesn’t care about the competitive pvp scene at all- so like why would they actually ban the new accounts they buy?
because a few forum personalities are outraged?
good joke.
because they deeply care about pvp being seen as competitive in the wider community?
obviously not. exploiting & afking are still rampant & unpunished, & anet euthanised their own competitive scene.
so, i just can’t see a compelling reason for anet to ban these new accounts. i mean they want toker & co streaming, advertising their game & shilling PoF, & that can’t happen if he’s perma banned from pvp on all accounts. the free advertising from streamers is so much more valuable than the opinions of a few forum personalities. heck, they can even delete this thread & further ones like it if they want.
no , games near death is anounced when they are full of cheaters/ boots and game admins do nothing againts, if peoples states that this is a game where cheating have no penalty game will be dead, and if cheaters are “famous” streamers they will be dead before…
The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.
I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.
I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.
I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.
Not relevant. Ranked, competitive pvp is not casual by nature. They have plenty of pvp content available to them via unranked, quick plays, private servers etc.
Ranked pvp is literally for people who take their pvp more seriously.
If they don’t want to queue for it then they don’t have to.
You can’t make this argument without information/data to back it up. Unless you happen to have dev access to Anet analytics, you can only speculate.
None of that matters though; it’s a system a huge amount of people ask for regularly in game and on these forums.
If you don’t want to take part in it, then don’t. But otherwise why are you wasting your time trying to control what other people want to enjoy?
I look at the following:
team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.
PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.
They should go back to solo/duo and mixed queue regardless of population. I stopped playing ranked primarily due to the fact that I can’t really play with friends anymore (never really had enough for a full team and it took them forever to add ATs so the “team” we did have kind of split up). Solo/duo is stressful for a variety of reasons and there needs to be an outlet for groups of 3+ that isn’t unranked or ATs.
If you are worried about stress queueing with 2, I’m not sure how queuing with one more person helps. I would think hotjoin or unranked would be a better fit than ranked. Also you can queue more than two in ranked in between seasons.
There’s far more toxicity in solo/duo than there ever was in mixed queue. I don’t feel the need to get berated by teammates every few games or have them go AFK 30seconds into a match because we lost the initial mid fight. Or better yet have them throw for someone on the other team. Match manipulation is far more rampant than it used to be (season 1-4 had it’s issues, too, but that was mostly related to how the match maker selected teams and got abused that way).
With more people you can control who you get on your team and therefore reduce the possibility of having issues like these happen. In solo duo you have no idea what you’re going to get and that in and of itself is stressful.
Telling me to go play hotjoin or unranked isn’t the same thing in the least and is a little bit insulting actually. It isn’t a viable solution when we had a perfectly fine system before that could have been improved on just by splitting the queue. There are tons of people like me who pretty much stopped playing ranked due to the solo/duo changes. Pretty much everyone I pvped with feels that way.
the form of controling the afkrs problem is not letting you chose your teammates is making a real report and punishment politic of afkrs trolls and bad spormanship teams corrupts the personal skill ranking system shadowing under your social skill to make more gaming skilled friends
Holy god punctuation is a thing.
There are two ways to help prevent afks:
1) punish it more severely. This helps after the fact and does nothing to prevent it in the moment.
2) Let you choose your teammates. The more people on your team that know you the less likely you are to run into afks. This is THE MOST EFFECTIVE way to prevent afks on your team.
No one is suggeting we get rid of solo/duo. We just want an option to have mixed/team queue again.
1) after some people have tasted the punishment it prevents in the moment
2)yes… to farm soloers with your premade… yes
until sistem can factorize the “premade factor”(they never will do it) to throw equilibrated matches, no mixed qs
chosing your teammates corrupts individual ranking calculations, this is a fact . you could have most skilled friends that boost your rank or less skilled ones that drags down your and you boost their
The best solution it to allow AT matches to count towards your rating and make ranked queue matches solo only. The other thing I would do is add a group play feature to the AT so it is like the world cup first round. You play all three other teams in your group. Top 2 advance.
I don’t disagree, but would you also be open to introducing an additional ranked queue for teams? 2-5 players.
This doesn’t change anything you just stated, but also adds the ability for groups of friends to play together with other groups of friends.
I’m personally willing to wait through longer queue times if it means I can play a multiplayer game with my friends.
I don’t really don’t see a population for a team only ladder. Casuals will just get a beat down and quit. Currently there is unranked for casual team PvP. There are the ATs for upper end 5 man.
Not relevant. Ranked, competitive pvp is not casual by nature. They have plenty of pvp content available to them via unranked, quick plays, private servers etc.
Ranked pvp is literally for people who take their pvp more seriously.
If they don’t want to queue for it then they don’t have to.
You can’t make this argument without information/data to back it up. Unless you happen to have dev access to Anet analytics, you can only speculate.
None of that matters though; it’s a system a huge amount of people ask for regularly in game and on these forums.
If you don’t want to take part in it, then don’t. But otherwise why are you wasting your time trying to control what other people want to enjoy?
I look at the following:
team que was voted out nearly 80% to 20%.
The amount of teams that enter ATs is very small. I haven’t seen any more than 32 teams.
Team arena in GW1 was dead from the start of the game.
PvP dev time would be better spent on things that benefit more people.
They should go back to solo/duo and mixed queue regardless of population. I stopped playing ranked primarily due to the fact that I can’t really play with friends anymore (never really had enough for a full team and it took them forever to add ATs so the “team” we did have kind of split up). Solo/duo is stressful for a variety of reasons and there needs to be an outlet for groups of 3+ that isn’t unranked or ATs.
If you are worried about stress queueing with 2, I’m not sure how queuing with one more person helps. I would think hotjoin or unranked would be a better fit than ranked. Also you can queue more than two in ranked in between seasons.
There’s far more toxicity in solo/duo than there ever was in mixed queue. I don’t feel the need to get berated by teammates every few games or have them go AFK 30seconds into a match because we lost the initial mid fight. Or better yet have them throw for someone on the other team. Match manipulation is far more rampant than it used to be (season 1-4 had it’s issues, too, but that was mostly related to how the match maker selected teams and got abused that way).
With more people you can control who you get on your team and therefore reduce the possibility of having issues like these happen. In solo duo you have no idea what you’re going to get and that in and of itself is stressful.
Telling me to go play hotjoin or unranked isn’t the same thing in the least and is a little bit insulting actually. It isn’t a viable solution when we had a perfectly fine system before that could have been improved on just by splitting the queue. There are tons of people like me who pretty much stopped playing ranked due to the solo/duo changes. Pretty much everyone I pvped with feels that way.
the form of controling the afkrs problem is not letting you chose your teammates is making a real report and punishment politic of afkrs trolls and bad spormanship teams corrupts the personal skill ranking system shadowing under your social skill to make more gaming skilled friends
ranked is for achieving a personal rank and the only way to calculate this(in the longterm) is solo random q, allowing players to form any form of team shadows they personal rank behind team rank, and skill of their friends.
if any sort of ranked is available for teams have to be for fixed teams to be ranked as a team( i sugest that will be a form of incription with 7-8 players for team that can be switched for tactic or pure time disposition of the players(if they want be only five and carry 3 trash tier friends is their option and their self limitation). variable teams cant not be ranked
only form to achieve and acurate calculation of personal rank is randomes, for removing bad match quality the solution is not team,: is perfectioning the mm algorism and the more important punishing trols afkrs and bad sportmanship
You’re incredibly mis-informed and speaking out of ignorance.
I’m willing to help though-
It’s standard in competitive gaming today to have a Glicko based ELO personal rating system within team based games.
im not talking about what you can find in another games or what is usual, im talking about the “correct” manner of implementing a ranked ladder of personal gaming skill, any form of premade team mixed in it shadows your playing skill under your “social skill” to atract more skilled players to “booster” your ranking, to evaluate your own skill the random factor is inportant having your share of matches that you are carried, the games in what you are only one more in a balanced thing and the games you have to carry to evaluate your gaming power, mixing premade teams with a personal gaming skill measurement makes more important the social factor than the gaming skill factor, and more in this game that have proven repeatly they cant evaluate any form of “team power” to ensure decent matches
ranked is for achieving a personal rank and the only way to calculate this(in the longterm) is solo random q, allowing players to form any form of team shadows they personal rank behind team rank, and skill of their friends.
if any sort of ranked is available for teams have to be for fixed teams to be ranked as a team( i sugest that will be a form of incription with 7-8 players for team that can be switched for tactic or pure time disposition of the players(if they want be only five and carry 3 trash tier friends is their option and their self limitation). variable teams cant not be ranked
only form to achieve and acurate calculation of personal rank is randomes, for removing bad match quality the solution is not team,: is perfectioning the mm algorism and the more important punishing trols afkrs and bad sportmanship
after finishing my placements(6-3(one not even apeared one match) last season 1100 this i start this at 1350 (aprox like all other seasons, get a decent placement matches to get after a horrible lost streak that pulls me to be bronze or near bronze and having to brag to recover)) yesterday nigth (euro time) i take a look to classification and i noticed that in these moment top 250 starts at 1440. this is the cause of bad match quality in a match with a little of deviation you can get a top 250 or me ,a poor silver dweller,
Apparently placements doesnt count leavers. Had a fantastic 3v5 game from start to finish that still counted towards a loss.
The game still shows as a loss in the UI but your rating is unaffected.
I did get an extra loss on the placement UI and it did count towards the 10 games.
t
Right. The UI shows the game as a loss, but your rating was unaffected. Usually when a teammate leaves the match you see the 0 for your rating change after the game ends. During placements your rating isn’t visible yet so you don’t see the 0, but that same result happens.
if disconected one didnt even show in preparation time, match never have to start
DMG dont truly matter here the real problem is:
what the hell they are smoking when had the idea:
-give the most movile class , the one whith more disengage capability, the one with major invisibility acces 1500 range atacks
if they cant oneshot with that atack the problem is still real. they had an enormous capacity to mantain that kittening 1500 range (300 units more than normal max range ranged attacks)
Well to even use he skill they have to give up a lot of mobility. And the large tells and the skill reveals before any damage….
@ Erzian they do they have to put a lot into that i.e. Take every trait that provides a modifier and to let the Mark build up otherwise it will hit for only 5-7k how about so a full screenshot to show the dame right after it lands to see your no setup…. because full context is everything and it’s been proven people try to skew everything to their end… or better yet make a video since every video so far shows quite a bit of setup for the 20k plus shots(inb4 I can’t record a video because reasons)…. but hey again it’s not like their aren’t 3 very large tells involved with the skill and the Thief being almost completely immobile to even use it…
im not talking of the big one shot atack, im talking of thief doing AA and some other kitten at permanent 1500 range unless you have a lot of gape-closers, imvulns , blocks to try(only try) to hunt them,(for close combat classes the p/p is and anoying build, imagine now the same at 1500) the big oneshot attack is the lesser of problems.
Let’s take a stab at your supposed scenario.
1. 1500 range is only available while Kneeling, otherwise it’s all 1200 range, last i check every class has at least 1200 range Weapons.
2. Deadeye Loses the Majority of its Mobility while Kneeling.
3. The majority of Thief Mobility requires quite a bit of Initiative either through SB5 or Rifle 4 (not kneeling, for some reason I feel this needs to be stated), and behind two Large CDs.
4. Oh noo having to use counterplay to counter things is so horrible what will we ever do…… and if they are kiting off point they aren’t doing to much since LoS is a thing if you don’t want to use precious CDs when fighting a player, sorry this isn’t PvE where players can get away with just pressing 1 and stacking.
5. I wonder how people ever deal with the highly mobile 1500 range Druids hat have been running around, their AA is faster and does the same damage and they have just as high of potential of kiting at 1500 range, hmmm I wonder how people ever managed??
1.ok but they can start shoting you at 1500 you have to close the 300 first ones to start shoting them, and unkneling have no cost and removes soft cc condis
2.unkneling have no cost and also removes soft cc condis and kneeling only cost one initiative
3.the same of above
4. another time only one class dictating entire meta, thief in the past had removed cristal canons from pvp, now they will make mandatory equiping a long range weapon
5. that there is a class that have bad design(allowing go full bunker without losing all damage potential, pet not afected by stats) not implies they have to introduce other and druid does not oneshot even the old power ranger cant
people says thief uses to be high risks/high reward that crap destroys entirely that concept making it a safe long range shooter
So the PoF elite specs are looking good, but it’s very apparent that Anet doesn’t want a bunker meta runing another expansion release which is good. Most of the new specs are high risk / high reward.
But then we have Dragonhunter and Daredevil.. both of these are just way too good at preying on anything that isn’t a bunker. The new elite specs do not need buffs – they are well designed. Instead Anet should nerf the low risk / high reward specs of Dragonhunter and Daredevil or else these two will just dominate all the new specs and kill build diversity.
I propose a few, simple countermeasures:
Nerf Test of Faith
Nerf Pulmonary Impact (maybe a 5s ICD?)
Nerf Daredevil condi application (not necessarily the damage, just the amount of different conditions it can do with 2 buttons on S/D)
Nerf Dash. Maybe only cleanse 1 or 2 of those conditions, not 3? Or reduce travel distance/swiftness duration?
These should have been butchered long ago, but now it’s a more pressing issue.
If these remain unchanged every new spec will either find the tankiest build they can (yay bunker meta) or won’t be played at all.
high risk? thats a joke? thief(the most movile an disengage capable class) oneshoting at 1500 range(300 units more than normal long range atacks) call you high risk?
DMG dont truly matter here the real problem is:
what the hell they are smoking when had the idea:
-give the most movile class , the one whith more disengage capability, the one with major invisibility acces 1500 range atacks
if they cant oneshot with that atack the problem is still real. they had an enormous capacity to mantain that kittening 1500 range (300 units more than normal max range ranged attacks)
Well to even use he skill they have to give up a lot of mobility. And the large tells and the skill reveals before any damage….
@ Erzian they do they have to put a lot into that i.e. Take every trait that provides a modifier and to let the Mark build up otherwise it will hit for only 5-7k how about so a full screenshot to show the dame right after it lands to see your no setup…. because full context is everything and it’s been proven people try to skew everything to their end… or better yet make a video since every video so far shows quite a bit of setup for the 20k plus shots(inb4 I can’t record a video because reasons)…. but hey again it’s not like their aren’t 3 very large tells involved with the skill and the Thief being almost completely immobile to even use it…
im not talking of the big one shot atack, im talking of thief doing AA and some other kitten at permanent 1500 range unless you have a lot of gape-closers, imvulns , blocks to try(only try) to hunt them,(for close combat classes the p/p is and anoying build, imagine now the same at 1500) the big oneshot attack is the lesser of problems.
DMG dont truly matter here the real problem is:
what the hell they are smoking when had the idea:
-give the most movile class , the one whith more disengage capability, the one with major invisibility acces 1500 range atacks
if they cant oneshot with that atack the problem is still real. they had an enormous capacity to mantain that kittening 1500 range (300 units more than normal max range ranged attacks)
This is not a new statement but I am tired of my rating going down for others inexperience or fight focus over map focus.
What I would like to see is a fair rating system bronze-legend that is based on your skills, not the group of pugs you have no choice of. Your contribution to each match by the current award system or a new one, maybe only on the losses and the winning team splits the reward even, but a guy that runs in mid 3 v 1 over and over or a thief that never caps should not effect my rating. Team based game but no choice of members in that team result in a skewed personal rating with the rewards being 20g a day win or lose.
a thief that never caps…..
im so unluky whith thieves , if a thief apears on my team sure (9 /10)is a p/p who thinks their job is gunshoting people in mid or whorse,
but reading that of a thief not caping ,makes me comprehend the thief point of view about saltiness on thieves, a thief only have to cap if other points are clearly secured… if not they have better thinks to do than stay on point for capping, major contribution of thieves is +1/ negating points to rivals(decap).
Conquest is a game mode that unarguably benefits from vocal communication.
Snap decisions, focus, the very complex business of rotating around different objectives/ map features… You cannot quickly type these things out. You can’t be bunkering 1v2 and take a moment to type. You can’t set up great combo’s reliably.
I think a major hindrance to this game mode is a lack of substantial communication. There is a feeling of “my team will have their own ideas and I’ll never know what they intend to do”. And trying to get them to read a small chat window about how they should abandon mid is not a good solution in the frenzy of teamfights.
There is heated people, there is toxic people, and there’s obviously a mute function. The opportunities for active learning, camaraderie, and for people to express real time information without hindrance to game play is invaluable for competitive.
There is a sense of accomplishment, a sense of teamwork, a sense of “We really womboed the crap out of mid, that was cool.”
It’s more exciting, it’s pro’s immeasurably weigh out the cons, and I’d really like to understand why it doesn’t exist, and why it hasn’t existed for so long as basic functionality in game?
know you that this game is in many countries who speak many diferent languages?
voicecom has also language barriers, english is not “universal”
No, I had no idea people speak other languages.
Let me make this really simple for people: if people don’t speak the same language, then how are they NEGATIVELY impacted by the OPTION of voice chat?
There is 0, and I truly mean 0 tangible negatives in a competitive game to having voice chat. People not speaking english? People getting upset cause someone called them bad? These "negative"s already clearly exist in text form.
If someone has a valid argument, please, I’m listening. But competitive, competent game titles like Overwatch for example are already taking a huge dump on anything you say.
how they are impacted? LOL
there is another factor of imbalancement , team that have coms cuz they are english/same lenguage speakers vs team that dont have coms cuz they are not english/same language speakers
simple, dont think you
A match maker that randomly places people of all backgrounds into a match where the only method of communication is TEXT is only made better by people being able to VOCALLY express things as an OPTION.
Your english is good enough to say “HELP MID” or my spanish is good enough to try and say “AYUDA MID”. And if it isn’t both teams have the same exact chance of perceived “imbalance”. And I say perceived because it’s absolutely silly to make that assumption.
Either way, there is nothing lumping these different nationalities into same language speaking groups, your point is completely invalidated and the current system has the same language barriers you speak of. Are we speaking different languages in text? Then we’re speaking different languages in voice comms.
“simple, dont think you?”
Naturally im thinking in my case, basically selftaugh english reading webs and viewing tvshows in original version with subs either in my language or english and a pair of years in childhood in a private academy many years ago, i can write simple text to make me comprehensible , but oral is another thing and if we mix some awful accents….
for coms to say simple frases it could be beter a system of simple shortcuts with predeterminate frases (who everyone will read in their game language available in a pair of clicks
system have so many imbalancements to put a potential other
Conquest is a game mode that unarguably benefits from vocal communication.
Snap decisions, focus, the very complex business of rotating around different objectives/ map features… You cannot quickly type these things out. You can’t be bunkering 1v2 and take a moment to type. You can’t set up great combo’s reliably.
I think a major hindrance to this game mode is a lack of substantial communication. There is a feeling of “my team will have their own ideas and I’ll never know what they intend to do”. And trying to get them to read a small chat window about how they should abandon mid is not a good solution in the frenzy of teamfights.
There is heated people, there is toxic people, and there’s obviously a mute function. The opportunities for active learning, camaraderie, and for people to express real time information without hindrance to game play is invaluable for competitive.
There is a sense of accomplishment, a sense of teamwork, a sense of “We really womboed the crap out of mid, that was cool.”
It’s more exciting, it’s pro’s immeasurably weigh out the cons, and I’d really like to understand why it doesn’t exist, and why it hasn’t existed for so long as basic functionality in game?
know you that this game is in many countries who speak many diferent languages?
voicecom has also language barriers, english is not “universal”
No, I had no idea people speak other languages.
Let me make this really simple for people: if people don’t speak the same language, then how are they NEGATIVELY impacted by the OPTION of voice chat?
There is 0, and I truly mean 0 tangible negatives in a competitive game to having voice chat. People not speaking english? People getting upset cause someone called them bad? These "negative"s already clearly exist in text form.
If someone has a valid argument, please, I’m listening. But competitive, competent game titles like Overwatch for example are already taking a huge dump on anything you say.
how they are impacted? LOL
there is another factor of imbalancement , team that have coms cuz they are english/same lenguage speakers vs team that dont have coms cuz they are not english/same language speakers
simple, dont think you
Conquest is a game mode that unarguably benefits from vocal communication.
Snap decisions, focus, the very complex business of rotating around different objectives/ map features… You cannot quickly type these things out. You can’t be bunkering 1v2 and take a moment to type. You can’t set up great combo’s reliably.
I think a major hindrance to this game mode is a lack of substantial communication. There is a feeling of “my team will have their own ideas and I’ll never know what they intend to do”. And trying to get them to read a small chat window about how they should abandon mid is not a good solution in the frenzy of teamfights.
There is heated people, there is toxic people, and there’s obviously a mute function. The opportunities for active learning, camaraderie, and for people to express real time information without hindrance to game play is invaluable for competitive.
There is a sense of accomplishment, a sense of teamwork, a sense of “We really womboed the crap out of mid, that was cool.”
It’s more exciting, it’s pro’s immeasurably weigh out the cons, and I’d really like to understand why it doesn’t exist, and why it hasn’t existed for so long as basic functionality in game?
know you that this game is in many countries who speak many diferent languages?
voicecom has also language barriers, english is not “universal”
deadeye spec is trash so u dont have to worry there.
i hope so, or after tweking by theoricrafters you get a high mobility class with incredible disengaging capacities capable of ataking you at 1200 range … in pvp can be trash but it can be a wvw full of sniper campers hiden in spots of dificult acces killing any sort of roaming or not big big blob game…. a real nightmare
While I get why they were banned… And I understand the ToS, I can also understand why they thought this would be okay to do—given anet’s long history of being fine with people selling raid clears and achievements.
The competitive nature of sPvP certainly sets it apart, but Legendary Armor and PvE Achievement Titles are devalued every day by people selling them in LFG… I don’t really see how buying your little crown is technically any different from an ethical standpoint.
its not the same:
the apropiate example is if you cant find a so top pvp team that can win all 4v5 and carry you to the crown, raid sellers are those, experienced players that can do 10 man content in fewer numbers (9-8-or less)and carry total noobs to get their reward.
and that is not the case , that is total noobs share their acounts to the pros to achieve her reward
This is what happens when you guys complained about supports being OP and now have nothing left but damage, damage, and more damage.
People cried and whined about clerics, soldier’s, hell even about ele, druid, and bunker mesmer cooldowns to help support these damage classes and cleanse you, but now that they are basically nerfed and are the #TeamGirlfriend class now, condis are now a problem?
Pfft.
What is it that this community even want anymore?
Suports are OP, suport arent OP…
by this game design mechanics (aoes and blasts that afects equally suport and suported)heavy suport class become heavy unkillable god mode bunkers, having suport class are ok if they are not self suporting wile suports others and not suporting others while under heavy pressure on them and trhowing all on him to survive
not needed complex machine learning algorism and other kittens:
the solution is easy:
-class mmr
-balanced classes or knowing the imbalance such if team A have X team B must have X or if not posible Y
in this way matches only will be “broken” when some player/s brings to the table some creative and funcional “out off the box” build
Make top stats more relevant. If you lose a game and would lose 12 rating points, yet have 1 topstat you only lose 9 (so 25% reduction), for 2 or more you would only lose 6 (50% reduction). If you were to win and gain 12 points, yet did not get any topstat, this gets reduced by 25% as well to 9 point bonus. This should start filtering out actual contribution to win rather than getting teamed up with players that have done little in any game, but happen to be lucky.
wrong idea, topstar are natural for some clases, play ele and you get permanently, also if you do kitten, the heal topstat, if there is no ele authomaticaly is the druid or guard the one that gets it
and you can be hardcarring and be the one that wins the match but no get a topstat because you are not the one that do more in each cathegory, you are the second in all or not
An even more depressing fact is people who do this deliberately will not get temp, auto, or perma banned for match manipulate because Anet has yet to fix their player report system.
Even if they investigate, there will be no “hard evidence” of match manipulation because games are limited to only chat logs :/
last match got one of teamies stucked more than two times… this can be casual
viewing now so many guards with hammer, rangers with hard cc pets etc etc…and maps as skihammer and kilo selected much often than ever….
this glitch is being hard xploited
Look at it this way – you fight a power build and you get hit. You take damage immediately and you know how to react to that. All is fine and all is good, even if you die in 2 secs.
With condi, you take LOTS of hits, but you take slower damage, over time (It can still tick high because you get hit with lots of attacks). Keep in mind if this was incoming power damage, you’d ALREADY been dead.
But this is condi… so what do you do here? You cleansed unwisely before so now you get caught with your pants down and suddenly you watch your health slowly degenerate down….and down.. and down… and you get irritated. Then you go to the forum and release your irritation into a “I hate condis” post.
That’s not counter play. Saying you have to wait by default to take damage…and then oh you messed up continue to take that same damage is not counter play. It’s Broken by design.
WRONG: You take 19 instances from rev torment in one hit. <——That’s not “slow damage”
Guard: 8+ burns <—-Not slow damage
Mesmer You take 3-4 instances per hit <———Not slow damage.
Necro you take all of the conditions in 1 hit. <——Not slow damage
Warrior same crap <—-Not slow damage
Ranger same crap
Thief you take 3 instances of conditions per hit/application.
How many times do you get to cleanse? maybe 2 or 3 times.
each one removing 1 or 2 conditions.
Either Classes need to be able to clear all conditions with 1 cleanse and need to have their number of cleanses increased by 2.
Or EVERY profession in the game needs to lose access to 2 damaging conditions and 3 non damaging conditions.
only the OR, the first is going further in the " condi weapon race" in this moments the game have a loot of mass condi removals available, condis to be “usefull” have to became bursty, adding more condi cleans —-→>>condis need to be more bursty and become near instant as it was power dmg, only solution is slow down and reduce condi removal and condi acces to all classes
only if it was a league season of fixed format(example play 5 match and only five a day) and high populated can be stablished a sort of soft div protection in form of a “mini tournament” between ppl that want to promote vs ppl that are in way of descending
hard div protection is bad and creates the “mmr hell efect” creating groups of ppl that are far away(low) of ranking of their div and cant descend to play againts equally ranked ppl
Going to be duoing with a thief buddy was wondering what went best with him. I have been playing a Eng but don’t know how well that would work
play your best class, or take another and make a lot of practice in unranked, taking an ideal class that you dont master at your 100% level is detrimental for much good sinergies that teorically had with your duo partner.
BTW . anet remove duos from ranked, make it only true solo q,duo is a form of xploiting sistem
Why is there no /gg command in the PvP?
In 90% of the cases you know after the first 3 minutes, if your team is going to win or not. Going /gg would be faster and easier, than to go afk and wait for a quick end.
gw1 had it, and that become a /gg trade, after thy had to implement minimum lenght of matches and other rules to prevent it
going afk have not to be and options, there have to be some sort of rule to incentivate the hard trying like s1 where you have some sort of invisible partial goals that if you acomplish get rewarded for them, like you are in front of a much skilled team if you reach x points your lost is reduced, if you get a near close match your lost is minimized , but this if not in pure solo format and antisyncq mechanics will be abused by the same that abuses system now, like in s1
I don’t understand this. Why are Thiefs so bad for a competitive PvP team?
If you have 5 Dragonhunters, you will win. If you have 5 Necromancers, you will win. But if you have 2 or more thiefs, you will lose in 95% of the cases.
But why? Shouldn’t it be alarming to A-Net, that Thiefs provide such a bad team play support? Especially since they also have/want to play WvW in a zerg and PvP in a team?
thief is the unique class that have a role defined till the launch of game, decap /+1, thief is perfect for this role, but this role have only one spot per team bringing two to team makes team squishier and unles other team does big mistakes(like having a idiotic duo of far campers making the others having to strugle in a continuos(and losed) 3v3 +1 or 3v3 +1 +1 to try to hold other point, that hapens to me last night) match is close to be a lost
there is two problems just now the jumping for abuse of outnumbered or troll the outnumberd ones and the afking in spawnpoints
the first problem can be solved giving the bonus in a stack form: every minute outnumbered you get one stack when points are awarded you get one point per stack
2ond can be reduced giving a form to cash out your participation, most players afk before leaving to get credited(pips and reward route) for their acumulated participation before decay
There is ALREADY a mechanic in place for afk’ing your participation. It’s called Obsidian Sanctum. You get pips, and your participation counts down. We don’t need another.
also is a place for duels, and people still dueling in maps…
Yes. But the duels can’t hit you where you WP in. You are safe there.
im not saying people dueling in OS, i say OS is place for duels and people still duel in frontiers
there is two problems just now the jumping for abuse of outnumbered or troll the outnumberd ones and the afking in spawnpoints
the first problem can be solved giving the bonus in a stack form: every minute outnumbered you get one stack when points are awarded you get one point per stack
2ond can be reduced giving a form to cash out your participation, most players afk before leaving to get credited(pips and reward route) for their acumulated participation before decay
There is ALREADY a mechanic in place for afk’ing your participation. It’s called Obsidian Sanctum. You get pips, and your participation counts down. We don’t need another.
also is a place for duels, and people still dueling in maps…
there is two problems just now the jumping for abuse of outnumbered or troll the outnumberd ones and the afking in spawnpoints
the first problem can be solved giving the bonus in a stack form: every minute outnumbered you get one stack when points are awarded you get one point per stack
2ond can be reduced giving a form to cash out your participation, most players afk before leaving to get credited(pips and reward route) for their acumulated participation before decay
condi duration not matter much because: insane amount of cleanses== if not bursty not viable condis===toxic gamemode if 2 or more go condis and no cleanbots near(if cleanboot condi players disabled).
first step to fix condies is hardnerfing the cleanbots like ele, after this condies can be toned down to be a more strategic gameplay based in staking and sustaining stacks
First step is to buff the cleanses so power can 1v1 condi without an elebot.
its a weapon race, and the solution never is buy a bigger gun
Condi duration doesn’t matter in pvp because people just die in a couple of seconds if they don’t cleanse. One of the problems.
condi duration not matter much because: insane amount of cleanses== if not bursty not viable condis===toxic gamemode if 2 or more go condis and no cleanbots near(if cleanboot condi players disabled).
first step to fix condies is hardnerfing the cleanbots like ele, after this condies can be toned down to be a more strategic gameplay based in staking and sustaining stacks
I actually think a better solution is to reduce the condi damage over all, but allow condi’s to crit and then provide amulets that have condi dmg and +crit so it takes 2 stat groups to make condi strong, similar to the power builds.
condis need yet 2 stat groups: condi power and condi duration , condi duration is les usefull due to the insane amount of cleanses
the fix to condi play is reduce the condi kittenload bombing (less acces to diferent condies for class)and reduce the insane amount of cleanses making more a stacking single max two condies play and less condi kittenload burst
In WvW enemy players have just a circle above their head instead of a name.
Why cant we just delete all the player names and guild names and just have the class represented so that players can not whisper individuals to throw or realize they are on a team with their buddies and all hop in discord together or throw and crap.
Just change the names for chat to “Ranger 1”, “Necromancer 2”.
Also why is whispering the enemy team even allowed in ranked?
I think this would cut down on people bad mouthing a particular player or throwing because they see their mortal enemy on their team or throwing because they want a top 10 player’s duo queue to lose.
Thoughts?
they wil have to remove all emotes, leaving respawn before start etc etc
if not cheaters can make some sort of signal of selfreconaissance such as meeting in mid and salute before match starts and all will continue equal or worse ( players cant track easily cheaters cuz the generic names)
This might explain why the same people are topping the leaderboard every time. Truth is, every system has its flaws. The community wanted duo queue because 5man stomps are no fun, just reverting to 5man queue is not going to fix all of these problems, surely you must see that. Every “solution” would introduce new problems.
Like people have said, that is a hell of a lot of work for just a title. That’s it. Just enjoy the game and do what’s fun for you.
the comunity not wanted duo q, the great amount of players wanted pure solo, duo are introduced by anet cuz a minority of top vocals wanted it, thus they can retain in some sort control of matches playing with a asured other top(the “legal ones”), and cheat most others
That’s not true at all.
They ran a poll. Majority wanted duo queue. The polls were there, if people didn’t vote that’s their thing. I play with a buddy. Solo play is boring.
people voted for not being farmed for premades, duos are put in the equation by anet, they only gave two options, mixed q or solo/duo, people not voted specificaly for duos, its put as a “lesser evil” but experience proved that is a great evil like mixed q
3) imagine that extreme case you say
player whith mmr 2000 and player with ¿0? the duo is threated by actual mm as a 1000 mmr individual and they played againts 1000 players obviously the gap betwen a 1000 rival players and the 2000 is so big that they can easily carry their 0 friend(unless the other 3 are 0 like) and get a consistent much more than 50% win ratio unles the other 1000
