the problem is not if someone steals the chief doing the last hit(legit mechanic), the problem comes when they are condis involved and the one who gets the kill is pure random
snipples
so make team q register team rank and not individual rank.
allow 2-3 roster changes through out the season.
preferable to register up to a 7 man rooster to make posible changes in the top ones and for the majority of players not having to wait to be all loged in, this way it can ve posible a team based league
people are not against a team q for who want to play in teams, people are against mixed qs, and people are against to for making possible team q losing the chances of individual ranking
Then let’s reverse my idea…
Team queue = better rewards
Solo queue = better MMR gainThink it’d work out well?
I don’t know how you came to that but my proposal is this:
solo q low rewards low mmr gain/loss
team q high rewards (bigger rewards the higher you climb) high mmr gain/loss
I would go even further:
solo q unranked only, no titles
team q ranked only, titles
I would enforce this during leagues as well.
some other things:
only gain rewards upon a win, and cannot gain same rewards twice (dunno if this is in game already or not)
top stats gains you extra pips (someone elses idea)
afking gets you dishonor
no profession stacking
dailies disabled in both unranked and ranked
a kitten of idea
ranked gives individual rank, playing in a team dont give to the system an idea of your individual skill, gives and idea of full team skill
a team q mode have to give team rank, not individual rank
and this is the reason while rank is an individual “skill” measure ranked leagues have to stay solo, no duo, no trio, no full team
an easy example. imagine top 5 players play together in a team, how the system managed to know who is the better player?
a team league only have a reason to be for registered teams (same five men all the entire season), not HoTM pugs or LFG groups
Warrior is the best class in pvp 1 on 1. If DH needs balancing than warrior(berserker) need serious nerfhammer.
They both do for the little skill they need to perform well.
Its not a kitteng skill matter its a concept think, its melee and melee is easy to understand for everyone hit and hit harder than your oponent or have some defenses/sustain to take the damage, you dont have to worry about positioning(you know clearly your better position is beside/infront of your foe) . its a simple concept, but performing it well need some skills too
mmm… you dont understand the problem, many of the “legendary” did the same, someones with 3 or more acounts… lets get some math
imagine for a moment, round numbers, that the 250 legendari ranks are filled only by 125 real players that get legendary in 2 acounts and for diferent time disponibility there is a max of less than 40 real legend players at peak hour. this is the isue that makes the rank manipulation easyI understand the problem you’re pointing out, but you missed my point. I was only actively pursuing a leaderboard position on one account. The other was to queue with friends who were less than competitive. It had zero bearing on “real” players being on at a peak hour. I was merely trying to pass what little PvP knowledge I had on in the hopes they become “real” players in the future.
Further, what good is there in having more people in those positions, if the “legendary” players are actively participating in match manipulation and pushing some of these people out of the ranks, which is what I felt like happened to me and others in this forum. I’ve also received multiple PMs in game from those who admitted this happened to them as well.
NA really dug itself into kitten, and the worst part about it is that while the season as a whole generated more interest in PvP for one reason or another, it has discouraged a lot of players who are competitive or on the verge of being competitive from trying, because those who are in the best position to help the community decided to help themselves instead.
no you lose my point
the important part for me, im not a legendary (im a simple silver one )and i dont care a kitten about legendary ranks, im only concerned of how can snowball through ranks ,and for my part you are still part of the problem, not only this, you(the ones like you, i dunno know if we are in same region)are a more big problem, in the proces of boosting your friend you can be crossed my ranks div and you clearly dont belong in those ranks and for mid players getting one of yours in ours matches is not fair
i only talket about legendary cuz its more clear and evident talking about a rank low populated that one whith hundreds of players
Perma stealth thieves. Its pure bullkitten that someone could decap/cap a point, or even just contest it for that matter, if you can’t even see them. Being forced to lay down an AoE skill, which not all classes even have one that can cover an entire node for that matter, just to “fight” because you can’t see them is stupid and broken.
You aren’t “forced” to put down an AOE just to fight, you can hit a thief in stealth with any skill if you aim it right, even ranged AA chains. Also, the thief cannot fight you back lest he’s risking being revealed and bursted down, so you can just cleave them and whiltle them down just as you would any other “bunker”, since most build surely can out-DPS SR’s healing. Or, you can force them off the point or out of stealth with controll skills .
yeah you can cleave empty air like a insane cuz point is contested….. makes sense….
and when you put all your skills on cd thieve apears and oneshots you…. really makes sense
Disagree with OP. Of course pure soloQ would be the only completely fair setup in a system that ranks individual players. Premades on the other hand only make sense in a ranking that ranks teams. That is why a seperate team/soloQ would also not be fair within the individual ranking system, even if the population allowed for seperate queues. Full-premade teams should compete in a pure team competition, such as automated tournaments with seperate rewards/titles.
That being said, I think the current soloQ/duoQ system is a good compromise for keeping PvP somewhat social and to provide a starting point for coordinated play. Also, a pure soloQ would favor certain classes that work well without much team coordination (DH, warrior) even more than now, especially at lower tiers.
As for the disadvatage in match making/rating gain/loss as a duo as opposed to solo: I thought the algorithm was already taking care of that?
no algorism dont take care of that, algorism places duos in the math mean of the two duo players giving them a more advantage for manipulating ranks (smurfed acounts)
“I Played in two acounts X games”……
“I played in two acounts Y games”……realize you that you are part of the problem filling ranks with no “real” players?
Except that’s a conclusory statement. I’d say I was helping the problem by encouraging guild mates who would otherwise never play in ranked PvP to play because I was willing to duo queue with them, without having to “sacrifice” my personal rating. We’re not even talking about any meaningful “ranks” here, we’re talking about players who 1-9 their placement matches and don’t have anyone to help them improve their game. I’m not carrying a bronze player to gold 3.
I’m also fairly certain that I played more games on either account over the season than many other players, so does that mean that anyone who played less matches than me were also part of the problem?
mmm… you dont understand the problem, many of the “legendary” did the same, someones with 3 or more acounts… lets get some math
imagine for a moment, round numbers, that the 250 legendari ranks are filled only by 125 real players that get legendary in 2 acounts and for diferent time disponibility there is a max of less than 40 real legend players at peak hour. this is the isue that makes the rank manipulation easy
Both DH and Warriors need toning down. The difference between the two you have to be a good warr to get god mode, but DH requires much less skill for the same reward. For DH they need to add cast time to their traps, and nerf their 2 teleports skill which are ridiculous given the amount of burst damage DHs can do. Symbol of blades is on a 10sec timer. So they can teleport to you and lay traps, burns etc for enough damage to down a 21.5K health player in an instant.
you have to be a good warrior to run a passive driven toon but can be brainless guard to run one whithout any passive?
guardian has a very simple concept, mele tankiness(stay in front of your foe hit , hit, hit, defense, heal and repeat) but is an active class not one driven by a lot of passive procs like others in special the ridiculous necro procmancer
and if problem are in traps why the hell nerf teleports? to ruin all other guard builds?
“I Played in two acounts X games”……
“I played in two acounts Y games”……
realize you that you are part of the problem filling ranks with no “real” players?
How does duo queue give you an advantage apart from using teamspeak? I duo with friends because I know they are reliable allies in a fight
This is literally the advantage. In a broad sense, the duo queuers are in agreement with each other that they are playing with an equally capable player. You reduce the system giving you an unknown player of relative weaker/stronger skill than you.
Teamspeak is a non-factor, what matters most is that you and your duo-mate are securing a spot for each other where you can say “Alright I know I will have an excellent Ele/Warrior/DH/Whatever, I can play around that” before you even get into the match. That’s the sole and most important advantage Duo has over Solo.
So if you are guaranteeing that there is another player of your skill level in your team, then you can imagine how this season Duo queues were securing so many wins by comparison (ALTHOUGH I do have to mention the rating ‘abuses’ as well). The simplest fix to this issue is to ensure Duo Queues face other Duo queues, and to make them artificially face harder opponents who at high MMR naturally behave like actual teams would. All without giving the Duo Queues more rating for those wins.
this will be a solution of compromise but….
the season in that hapenn the forum will be full of threaths flaming about the kittenty duos of unskilled players that ruins your games.
if they want leagues of individual ranking they have to be only soloq or throw entirely the idea of ranking
Just like every thread since HOT.
Anet needs to balance out the classes effectively, (give/take build set ups)
They need to work on class diversity and finally for the 5th straight season. They need to work on match making.
We cant blame 5 man premades and demand a solo/duo que. Only to get solo/duo que and then blame duo que players when once again. ITS ANET MATCH MAKING THATS FAILING.
Quit blaming small things on why you didnt get to where you wanted or why things are unfair. Simply put Anet has had some of the worst match making since HOT came out.
Lets quit dancing around the issue.
no, the majority of player base demanded soloq whithout team q any sort of team(2,3,4,5), anet was the one who put duo in the equation. and people toke it as a lesser evil, and this season demostrates its not lesser
messing whith the matchmaking was only because a vocal minority said in S1 they had to carry a lot. S1 had a lot of problems(smurfed acounts draging an entire team to compete with lower ranks, unclear pip reward sistem where you can gain pips in a lost and lost pips in a win…) but not matchmaking problems so big for the mess they do in the others seasons
and that is the reason why duo q is a bad idea.
If point gains were arbitrary as you describe, then there would be no upper bound on MMR, and you would see people who play a lot with 10k rating at the top of the leaderboard. This is not accurate and just takes us back to seasons 1-4.
The reason you are gaining very little is because you are expected to win all those matches and your rating is already accurate. When you lose a match you are expected to win, you take a decent hit. Your history shows that you can easily maintain your rating, which is good. If you’re already one of the best players, why do you need your rating to continually rise?
I can understand the argument that high-skilled players might want some sense of progression past being number 1, but that is outside the scope of MMR. This is one of the reasons you consistently get more rewards while highly rated.
no, evan, not is good, a winratio of +80% shows a machmaker fault, top players vs not so top players, the correct thing is top vs top and the top of the top ones having a winratio of max 60%
@Alex Shatter
Not all builds work, but it doesn’t mean you can’t make your own build that fits your play style. You have to remember, 90% of it is on the person behind the screen, and builds are only 10% of it.
Yes! yes yes yes!…and where are your videos showing this build variety?
You keep shouting from distance..but nothing to back up your argumentsHelseth’s recent tournament had a good amount of variety i felt. not huge sure, but a few builds for each class. they even felt a team would be better with staff thief at sone point.
tbh, this game really shines in 5v5 w teams.
anet should just add 5v5 arena with large rewards.
people would end up using LFG & guildies for teams just like any group content. good rewards would encourage lots of lower teir players to get involved.
a team mode filled with LFG groups is a bad idea, its only a farmplace for stablished teams like mixed q, if as the forum says its not enough population for a permanent team q, they may try a limited time team q like weekend tournaments or peak time mini tournaments or whatelse, but not force to fill a mode with lfg pugs
Idk whats with all these arguements. The question is if you feel ele needs a viable damage build. All I am trying to say is we do have one but its not viable at higher tiers because its outclassed by other dps builds.
A bigger look at the meta as a whole, the amount of blocks and evades people can spam is part of the reason its not that viable.
Eles problem is not viability of others builds, eles problem is they are so good on suport role that in terms of team construction its mandatory the ele suport, and ele going suport ennables other dps oriented builds. in resumen eles problem is not viability, eles problem is the “meta”, other classes droping almost all suport because they are eles(and druids) suporting them
Tempest is in an OK spot. It takes some good skill rotation to stay alive, and 1v1 you don’t die but also don’t kill anything. Need a little more damage, a little less heal.
this is just the sentence that shows that ele(and engi) is not ok for pvp, pvp should be matter of action and reaction not cycling a skill rotation wile runing in circles
no, skyhammer is not fine, they had several points with port bugs exploitable for ranged classes to trhow damage whithout retaliation
You do realize that every map has port immunity areas, specifically to offer kiting options for ranged?
kitting is not stay on place without moving in an advantage point laying ranged aoe in capt point
You people are so boring. So set in your ways. Skyhammer is totally fine. They should add spirit watch and capricorn too. Its time for some actual fun games with variety rather than the same maps for 4 years.
How are you all not bored of forest yet? lol
no, skyhammer is not fine, they had several points with port bugs exploitable for ranged classes to trhow damage whithout retaliation
It averages your ratings. In previous iterations of the league system, a party would be match-made with the highest badge tier.
another time made the same error.
you make it in season 1 and its abused via smmurfing and you make it again, great, great.
If youre insistent on playing your class but want to fill another role, then by all means go ahead. Just know that swapping to an entirely different class who does the role you want to accomplish would be more effective.
you dont understand.
other class probably i play much worse than the on that i q, and with a few tweaks i can adjust the current one that i play at 100% of my skill to acomplish the role that its needed, the said above, adjust the main class or go to the speciallist that i run worse?
and example i mainly q with symbolic dh i get a full heavy class stacked comp whith no roamers should i go to thief that i played in very rare ocasions or tweak a little the class whith speed runes to go to roaming/decap role that no one fills in that comp, in dh i play at 100% of my skill and in thief i will suck
(edited by megilandil.7506)
But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.
Because the metabattle curators decided it was so?
Nooooooot exactly. Here’s the deal. Every class in this game can, more or less, do the same things another class can do, but to varying degrees and with varying styles. This means that there will be classes that do certain things VERY WELL and things very poorly in any given scenario.
Thing is, this game (like any other) has a certain set of key objectives. These objectives are primarily either controlling a point through team fight supremacy or side point dueling.
You can probably custom engineer a bunker warrior build similar to the current ele or druid and actually have it work well, but I’m willing to bet that it won’t outpace these two for support which then leaves you with the things that warrior DOES do better than everyone else which, in this case, is this build which is why it is meta. By supporting this nerf, youre killing off their most OPTIMAL function currently and relegating them to a role that will leave them in the shadow of two other specs who, by all counts, are DESIGNED to do whatever it is they’re doing.
Being opposed to the current state of the meta because it reflects an overall state of the game that is not fun is one thing, but simply being against the meta because it feels like youre being told what to do and are deciding to rebel is, frankly, stupid.
and this is for teams with all roles covered, but now we are in a solo scene, and nobody grants to you your team get all the roles covered unless all players can play all classes at the same level and switch to them(the constant self question of medium players, i q whith x my team has x stacked,¿ is better to play whith x that i play at 100% of my skill or go to y that only play at 80%?).
and meta dont have changed much from s4 that are mixed q
warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.
false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is trueLols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.
its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.But theres a reason WHY they’re out of the meta.
and meta this season much more than others is false, meta is team based and perfect comp based, in solo q this meta only “works” cuz players are stick to it, but some good rounded builds out of “meta” brings havock doing unexpected things
(edited by megilandil.7506)
warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.
false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is trueLols I should take my healing Shout regen banner build into spvp and see what it can do.
its only an observation, people complaining they cant do things that class can do, if you copy paste metabattle builds and never tweak them you can´t.
but there are options out metabatle and classes can do a lot of things out of current meta.
warrior can’t heal any of your teammates. saying warrior is too strong because it’s 1v1 potential is higher than a support build is like saying ele is OP because it heals more than a theif.
false, warrior can heal teammates, not the actual meta thing , but warrior can heal via traited shouts
when talking about a determined build dont generalize to the complete class, sayimg war cant heal teamies is false, actual meta builds dont do is true
I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.
the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a hab normalization
I’m not really sure what you’ve just said…..what is a hab?
skills, word isues , im not a natural english user and mostly selflearned reading on internet
I’ve lost fights at mid before because I managed to down a player, but as a Necro being focused, I was unable to get the stomp, and my team was too distracted to stomp. But that is how it should be. If my team is only capable of pewpewing everything they see but not coordinated enough to stomp or res, then by all means we deserve to lose that team fight. To me, the downstate is great as is.
the isue with downstate is downstate habs. In a tie, the two downed, much dependant on class, they need a skills normalization
(edited by megilandil.7506)
Thing is, you can be multiple times better than your opponents even then it is still immeasurably hard to win outnumbered situations.
The main reason behind this is how downstate works. I find the concept about players who got outplayed and downed be able to perform heavily offensive actions from the ground while being able to be brought back a bit flawed.
If you outplay your opponents in a lets say 2v1 situation(where this problem peaks) and meenage to down someone you probably had to waste enough resources to do so therefore unable to stomp/cleave safely to end up in a 1v1(where you are exhausted). Minor cleave isnt enough to stop the vast majority of calsses from rezzing theyr buddy, also if you do so the downed person is going to be pressuring you while you pray to the gods that your cds come up before the engi/druid outheals your cleave and you can start from the beginning with even less hp and ofc downed percon having cd’s up.Gw2 is really fast paced, but lacks on visible “big plays” heavily. I feel like being better isnt rewarded enough and changing downstate should give a big swing to that. Carrying a team would actually be a thing couse you would be less hindered by opponents second third or fifth chances couse pubs aren’t coordinated enough to downcleave or unable to 2v1.
GW2 is a really unique team game. Others with similar matchmaking and behaviours have in-match progression system where better players can build up stat advantage overtime or the game is fast paced enough to immense knowlege about positioning and reflexes can overcome the outnumbered problems.
I wont propose to remove downstate couse it would lead to much tankier slow gameplay and its the part of the game since ever, but i really want to hear what your opinion in on the topic is.
What do you think downed persons atacking/casting a skill cancels rez sond like as en experimental step? what about being downed freeses cooldowns?
or worse you manage to down 2 , and you get on full cds and very low life, what happens? you have to retreat and pray that your cds recover before one can full heal or you will be downed and defeated in ground combat
Anet made it so they have to be disconnected for an insanely long time before it counts as a d/c for the team. If he was even 1 second shy of the limit then your team is screwed.
Between this and afkers who stay active in spawn all match just so they won’t get dishonor, there is more than enough to be frustrated with when it comes to playing in ranked.
(And reporting the afkers does nothing)
dc happens people got power shortages, net failures etc and they must have a chance to reconnect
and the most important, if the time is shortened, they may be abuse of using this as a safeguard for not losing, one dc last seconds and tadaaaa ….. no point lost…
They will give the balance. This is a bit annoying, that in every patch players want balances. And this is weird, that ANet gives changes, which turn into bad ones. I don’t know why ANet gives these balances if they always are bad or something.
balancing is not a matter of aply nerf hammer in ones and power creep others , balancing is better done by small tweaks and for doing so its better to do often.
Gw1 balance works in this way, biwekly little balance changes, and seasonal big ones
Would also be nice if you didn’t queue into and with people at 1500 when you’re at 1900 and lose 80 rating if you lose, and 11 if you win. I’d rather sit in a 20 minute queue then blindly play a pointless match if i win, and if i lose then i lose several hours worth of wins.
top ones do it for getting easy wins, its rare not one showed to say git gud and carry hard
this is a system fault and playing in low populated hours, but there will be some sort of barrier that makes not posible to put in a largely mmr umbalanced games
i had a sort of this in lower rank me being 1000 and getting someone that when i can see their rank(12 hours latter, night time + not being able to see at the moment) is 600( supose they be closer in moment of match they play like a mad and now they have large more than 900 games played this season )
DH have had almost only nerf and a minor tweek in simbols the last season and to be trash tier in s2 s3 becomes “op” in s4 s5, why?
very simple the metagame s1 s2 s3 where based on scratcher (sustained medium damage) builds and a block(main ofender for guard hatters) that blocks only a small number of hits is useles in this environement , but now meta shifted to burst one, and a well timed block that blocks the burst hit saves the day. just the oposite that hapened to necros the 2 life bar and a correct management of shroud is very very powerful in scratcher meta, but in burts meta when a well placed combined burst can eat the two lifebars in zero coma necros suffer a lot cuz they have little avoidance skills
the other “guard problem” is class staking, guards share much of their blocks; two guard have 2x blocks, three guards have 3x blocks….
I mean, it just makes sense to queue up for a PvP match the same way you would for a fractal. You put in a lfg, get a group of people together if you don’t already have one, and then queue. In fact, the only real difference in solo queue and using the lfg to team queue would be that if players know you are bad, toxic, always trolling, or unable to play a class that doesn’t fit the team’s comp, then they could choose to kick you from the group and find someone else before queuing up.
yep another way for stablished teams to farm easy wins, farming pug teams with the same cordination and mutual knowledge of gameplay as random mm solo ones
certainly game needs a sort of team format, if population low etc, they can try that someone said before weekend tournaments or something similar, but with a true team bias, registered teams and “evaluation” as full team, not by solo mmr median or similar to prevent smurfing or similar tricks
the only way to evaluate players mmr is by pure soloq and for this solo q not is for unranked
simple, you cant mix full team or trios or duos in a system that evaluates the player as a individual. Ant league seasons was all individual score based
mmr that team players get as individuals when they play as team is an error.
A league for teams have to be team only (registered team only) and evaluating the whole team not giving individual scores
mixing concepts is a error
If ANet accepts that teams Vs solo pugs are unfair, then it has to accept that duo Vs solo pug is also unfair. This is logical. You can’t have one foot in and the other foot out. Eventually we will have team and solo only Qs again, because it makes the most sense. The mixing of teams and pugs was solely for the sake of ESports that the majority of players aren’t interested in.
Who are you trying to convince with such a “great” argument.
Duos are not on the same level as a team of 5. With that said if arena net wants to include a team ONLY 5v5 they should. It would be nice for players like you to have an equally organized team to fight against so you can’t keep making excuses.
Actually, it’s EXACTLY the same thing.
The pro duo argument here is that the 2 duo+1 were palced versus a team with players rated that much higher to offset the factor of having 2 premades on the team.The same can be said of whole teams. It’s entirely feasible to have a team of much stronger players in order to offset the more organized team. I’ve lost games with a premade team on voice coms vs 100% random solos. My team simply had more inexperienced players than the other one (some were doing their first match on one of the last times i remember this happening) and the matchmaking offset the team factor.
The bigger problem with GW2 is that to do so it took like a 10 minute queue. Which isn’t really a good thing. Because GW2 isn’t really great at managing it’s PvP scene, so it’s not that populated.
It happens in most games, but in GW2 if the PvP forum is whiny enough they can turn a TEAM game into a solo game, and remove the most solo-friendly map from the rotation in the same breath.
that is the ideal scenario, if they can manage to separate q, the mm have to offsett the team factor putting them vs better individuals… as everithing has a dark side , and is not only the q times, that discourages the formation of new teams cuz new ones joining as a team will have harsh times until they get some team mechanics to offset the mmr diferences of individuals
And to the posts about luck when it comes to MM. Think of each player being 1 die, total of 10 dice in each game. You have control over 1 die, that’s you. You can control yourself but not the other 9 dice. If the game rolls these10 dice for 100 games, and everytime you can control the outcome of one of those die, its not entirely luck based and more often than not you can influence those odds into your favor.
For example, if you load with 3 thieves on your team, if you politely ask someone switch before the game starts, more often than not 1 person usually will switch. Key here though is to ask POLITELY :P
yes, you can get 4 thieves, got it the first days of this league after placement when the mmr won/loss is about 50.
3 thieves on team, asked if someone can switch that 3 thieves is not a good comp even 2 is not good, result thieves say they are fine and the four one( duo whith one thief) switch to thief
Dunno how thief mains would feel about this… But for Vault why not just put the evade frames at the end with the damage?
It does hit hard, but it would make it not be “evade, ‘quick big spike’,- evade, ‘quick big spike’.” keeping the spike from being pressure-able once the thief is in the air yet still allowing for counter play. (hell I’d even be fine with buffing the damage a little) It would also feel more like an attack as opposed to just another safe spike.Also to be fair, once the thief is at the peak of his vault unless you can instantly CC him (when most things have a cast time) your window of opportunity is to small before the next evade
As for bound… Maybe make the coefficient 1.32 to 1.35? I dunno I actually think bound is ok on it’s own, but when you consider the access to safe damage that already exists… Also since it’s a doge you can’t very well balance it similar to my suggestion to Vault, you NEED the reliability.
not logic, if you want an evade you want it now, you want to react to incoming attack, not and hab that gives you and evade 1/2 second after unless you can read the mind of oponent an act preemtive, problem is spameability in combo with dodge and signet and that they do big damage bringing “the permaevade” thief, logic changes are only increase cost to make non spameable , or reduce damage a lot
3) In trying to dispute the existence of ELO/MMR gehenna, he actually created it for other people (both by tanking his MMR – he also tanked it for others who were on his team because the only way to tank it is to lose; furthermore, he played against players who had no chance at winning due to their inexperience/knowledge and rank – that’s why they are still in lower ranks thus having no real chance at advancement).
be careful, for saying that , and calling it for its real name i get a message deleted and received a warning from forum moderators
bad idea, let the kitten talkers , the afkrs and similars to have more power than making you lose the actual game
and the reason is that your partner is lesser in mmr terms than you, they “have to work more” to be competitive in the environement where you drag him and logically their reward is bigger on wins and less penalized in losses
Actually I agree with this, except I would use completely opposite logic. If Player A has higher MMR than Player B and they queue together and win, isn’t it logical that Player A gets higher reward because he was the one carrying (you said it yourself)? To me what makes no sense is being carried and getting bigger reward.
carrying or being carried is not a factor for algorithm, they can factor it, b have to do more efort to stay competitive and not being a sandbag for entyre team that the player that is playing at her level, and for your logical aproach the ones who have to be more rewarded are the three other guys, they dont choice to drag the lesser mmr one, the duoer choice it
Actually, if MM is working properly (and I firmly believe it is not bcs of lack of players) then teams are made to be of equal strength (or as close as possible). In that sense, no one should be carrying anyone, since average team MMR should be equal or close (for example, other team also has someone with lower MMR who drags MMR of the entire team which then in the end makes the match balanced after all). Therefore, it doesn’t make sense (as someone was saying before me) that 1 player in the same team “has more chance to win/lose” than the other player in the same team. Therefore getting/losing different amount of points is completely wrong if matches are made “fair”.
for mm purpouses a duo is like a single player that ocupies two slots (they do their calculations to give to that “entity” a mmr number) and after make the q.
the lesser duoer not drag entire team to a lower mmr match, if the duo are calculated as average, the duo brings a lower player and a higher, if taken the high one(last seasons do it) brings a sandbag, this is the reasons that make that in great numbers anet says duoq is not a “exploit” but everyone knows that a duo of same level players being coordinated(voice coms, knowing eachothers plystile) brings a great advantage in the solo environementI don’t think you understood the point.
Ok, let’s say duo is observed as single entity with their own MMR. Let’s say Player A is 2k MMR and Player B is 1k MMR. Is it safe to assume this “entity” is in average 1.5k MMR? Ok, so the game will try to find a match with 8 other players around 1.5k MMR.
For argument sake let’s say it managed to find 8 players with exactly 1.5k MMR each and creates the match. Both teams in average have 1.5k MMR, so numbers say they both have equal chances of winning. So, how can you claim that Player B has less chance of winning, if teams are created in this manner, to justify higher reward, but lesser penalty? Yes, he is facing stronger opponents than himself, but in his team there is also player that is better than enemy, so teams should be (in theory) of equal strength. So, how can in one team, which on paper is of same strength as the other team, you can have 2 players with different chances of winning the match? It is completely absurd.
its the base of ELO system, your reward depends of diference whith oponents, the chances of wining and others only are adjustments to aply this system to teams
and the reason is that your partner is lesser in mmr terms than you, they “have to work more” to be competitive in the environement where you drag him and logically their reward is bigger on wins and less penalized in losses
Actually I agree with this, except I would use completely opposite logic. If Player A has higher MMR than Player B and they queue together and win, isn’t it logical that Player A gets higher reward because he was the one carrying (you said it yourself)? To me what makes no sense is being carried and getting bigger reward.
carrying or being carried is not a factor for algorithm, they can factor it, b have to do more efort to stay competitive and not being a sandbag for entyre team that the player that is playing at her level, and for your logical aproach the ones who have to be more rewarded are the three other guys, they dont choice to drag the lesser mmr one, the duoer choice it
Actually, if MM is working properly (and I firmly believe it is not bcs of lack of players) then teams are made to be of equal strength (or as close as possible). In that sense, no one should be carrying anyone, since average team MMR should be equal or close (for example, other team also has someone with lower MMR who drags MMR of the entire team which then in the end makes the match balanced after all). Therefore, it doesn’t make sense (as someone was saying before me) that 1 player in the same team “has more chance to win/lose” than the other player in the same team. Therefore getting/losing different amount of points is completely wrong if matches are made “fair”.
for mm purpouses a duo is like a single player that ocupies two slots (they do their calculations to give to that “entity” a mmr number) and after make the q.
the lesser duoer not drag entire team to a lower mmr match, if the duo are calculated as average, the duo brings a lower player and a higher, if taken the high one(last seasons do it) brings a sandbag, this is the reasons that make that in great numbers anet says duoq is not a “exploit” but everyone knows that a duo of same level players being coordinated(voice coms, knowing eachothers plystile) brings a great advantage in the solo environement
and the reason is that your partner is lesser in mmr terms than you, they “have to work more” to be competitive in the environement where you drag him and logically their reward is bigger on wins and less penalized in losses
Actually I agree with this, except I would use completely opposite logic. If Player A has higher MMR than Player B and they queue together and win, isn’t it logical that Player A gets higher reward because he was the one carrying (you said it yourself)? To me what makes no sense is being carried and getting bigger reward.
carrying or being carried is not a factor for algorithm, they can factor it, b have to do more efort to stay competitive and not being a sandbag for entyre team that the player that is playing at her level, and for your logical aproach the ones who have to be more rewarded are the three other guys, they dont choice to drag the lesser mmr one, the duoer choice it
Evan,
How is it possible that in a duo Queue playing several games consecutively, I can lose more rating on losses than my partner and gain less when we both win? As I understand the algorithm that should not be possible. If I’m more volatile I should both gain and lose more?
this is the duo(trio, quad,“false team”) problem , how they manage them for mm.
first seasons they do it taking the lesser or the average of team, and that results in a simple exploit for top players, create and alt, smurf the alt ,lower the team average, and start to farm till the smurf alt has growed enough …. repeat
after they decided to take the top one of the team
in this season i dunno how it managed it
and the reason is that your partner is lesser in mmr terms than you, they “have to work more” to be competitive in the environement where you drag him and logically their reward is bigger on wins and less penalized in losses
The idea of “elo hell” applies when: player of skill level that could be (for example) Bronze or Silver finds it impossible to climb out of Bronze.
If this is your view of elo hell then there is no problem. You’re losing because you have room to improve and it’s your task to do so. The problem is when people throw out statements such as ‘’there is only one player in the world who could climb out of bronze’’ or ‘’there is no way you could ever soloque as a necro from bronze to legend’’ or equally ridicilous statments.
They poison the community and the posters saying it themselves. I’ve never seen anyone who constantly complain about his goals being impossible achieve those goals.
If elo hell=you’re at the division level your skill level represents (low silver player in high bronze-low silver) then you have a different view from the people who insist that in reality they should be platinum but it’s just their teammates holding them back.
No one throw out those statements, you are, i supose for that is said here, a top player, a ESL player one of the 0.01% top elite of the game, and that makes your questionable experiment in moral stuff not representative for the 99.99% of players and less for the ones that are silver/ bronze, you only fact that you can do it not that everyone can do
Im not saying that i have to be platinum, in the old ranked leaderboard im a sad 98% one and managed to stay in it with a 50% win ratio, other leagues i hit ruby and this one after placement i get a 1480 falling after quicklie to 1000(my fault, playing to much firsts days with system not stabilized and getting mostly the bad side of coin) i think that with those historial i belong in silver, i dunno firsts or last tier but bouncing in it, maybe on a lucky streak hit gold to fall to silver again
people like the one two msg up there, that dont realize that average joe ones not “jump” the fence, slow climb it, and a pair of bad matches, a afker, or just a troll, very common in those lands can ruin the job of days
yes it is posible to do, i did many times and a pair of bad matches, etc etc bring me back again to other side of the “fence”
(edited by megilandil.7506)
So much salt in these responses! Honestly guys there is nothing to prove or disprove. He posted his stats and also streamed every match. Please don’t make claims about what he did or did not do when he has video to back it up, it just makes you look stupid. It’s hard to believe but to get to legendary we have to carry through not just bronze and silver but also gold and platinum. I think some people are just super salty that they cannot do it.
If us as single players are good enough to be legendary then we will be and if not then we have a lot of work to do.
salt is cuz those entitled players dennie the dificulties of average joes produced by a dev recognized faulty matchmaker saying if they can everyone can
I understand what you are saying but I also watched his streams. Not everyone can win a 1v2 or prevent cap in a 1v3 but some can. There are many legendary players streaming and two things that I have noticed with all of them is they can 1. win the 1v2’s and 1v3’s and 2. always predict how players will react to what’s happening on the map. You are right the average players does face difficulties but being legendary is not for the average player.
this is not about reaching legendary, it is about jumping the fence placed in bronze/low silver that someones called “mmr hell”
So much salt in these responses! Honestly guys there is nothing to prove or disprove. He posted his stats and also streamed every match. Please don’t make claims about what he did or did not do when he has video to back it up, it just makes you look stupid. It’s hard to believe but to get to legendary we have to carry through not just bronze and silver but also gold and platinum. I think some people are just super salty that they cannot do it.
If us as single players are good enough to be legendary then we will be and if not then we have a lot of work to do.
salt is cuz those entitled players dennie the dificulties of average joes produced by a dev recognized faulty matchmaker saying if they can everyone can
So your explanation is that they were only able to climb from bronze to gold because of luck? You seriously believe that others can only do it because they get lucky and you and others get unlucky? You seriously believe that is a more reasonable explanation than they simply climbed to where they belong and you are stuck where you belong?
It’s official, there is no reasoning with you people. You guys have no intention whatsoever of listening to anyone, so this whole argument is pointless.
oficial is that there is no reasoning with you
i said before with the swimmers example and i repeat now:a top tier player : world championship level swimmer, put in local championship with a team of local championship level teammates in a relay race can give them and increible amount of seconds of advantage that even if they had the bad luck of be in the worse team of competition they can win
a gold player : national level championship swimmer , gives they a good advantage and can win with low average teams
a silver player : regional level championship swimmer, gives to their team a minor advantage and they win if they are put in and average team, if not the minor advantage gets eaten by the rivalsclimbing out of bronze division where the skill gap is greater than the mmr metrics shows is hardest as your true rank more aproaches to bronze that you are more dependant of not geting a bad team(luck)
that we are saying to you is that top 250, platinum, gold players can easy jump the fence of bronze, but silver ones not and the experiment of OP is irrelevant cuz they are top 10 one and probably can win with a team of home tricapers that only spawn autos in bronze and obviously a silver player can’t
The thing is this is only looking at one match or instance, if you truly give your team an advantage, even a small advantage you should be showing it over time. You should be getting g a few top stats if you are the best on the team which reduces the loss of rating on losing and increases rating gain from winning.
I have had a loss take away 15-20 rating with 3 top stats only for me to win it all back next game with again 3 top stats.
If you cannot show that you are better than the people in the game, even if it’s only by a small advantage, then you are in fact in the right division
this small avantage that can give a “true silver” player in a game can be negated by only one bad teammate, that is the point, and dont forget that top bronze/low silver the entry point ,1200 points, where lands more of the new players, that increases the random factor your numerical best player can be a new one and for the other team the same, that is the think that make the most games are not truly balanced in terms of skills when probably we (high bronse low/mid silver)are the large comunity and the one that get the most numericall (in mmr numbers)equilibrated games
So your explanation is that they were only able to climb from bronze to gold because of luck? You seriously believe that others can only do it because they get lucky and you and others get unlucky? You seriously believe that is a more reasonable explanation than they simply climbed to where they belong and you are stuck where you belong?
It’s official, there is no reasoning with you people. You guys have no intention whatsoever of listening to anyone, so this whole argument is pointless.
oficial is that there is no reasoning with you
i said before with the swimmers example and i repeat now:
a top tier player : world championship level swimmer, put in local championship with a team of local championship level teammates in a relay race can give them and increible amount of seconds of advantage that even if they had the bad luck of be in the worse team of competition they can win
a gold player : national level championship swimmer , gives they a good advantage and can win with low average teams
a silver player : regional level championship swimmer, gives to their team a minor advantage and they win if they are put in and average team, if not the minor advantage gets eaten by the rivals
climbing out of bronze division where the skill gap is greater than the mmr metrics shows is hardest as your true rank more aproaches to bronze that you are more dependant of not geting a bad team(luck)
that we are saying to you is that top 250, platinum, gold players can easy jump the fence of bronze, but silver ones not and the experiment of OP is irrelevant cuz they are top 10 one and probably can win with a team of home tricapers that only spawn autos in bronze and obviously a silver player can’t