No need for DP. You failed at what you were trying to do and have to try again, that’s enough.
problem is you generally dont have to try again. It becomes one continous try. More difficult content isnt seen as difficult, just tedious, because eventually you will win, unless its so hard that you get full wiped until everyone quits out of frustration.
Then people view said content as broken, because the same brute force methods no longer work.
Even if a test is on advanced calculus, if it was multiple choice, and you have infinite guess, you can get 100 eventually.
thats what basically happens with a system that doesnt in someway check you on your deaths.
How easy would any of the 10000s of old single player games be, if you could always just revive on death.
but you can just reload on death. And unlike in MMO chances are you saved in front of hard parts not having to rerun anywhere. And they also have no death penalty.
most old rpgs that allowed saves didnt allow you to save anywhere, they let you save at specific areas/times in serious content.
Most old platformers returned you the start of the level, or a midpoint.
Sports games had no mid match saves.
tactics games, you can save, or start over, but saving would suspend the game at that moment.
Most games really dont let you continue with no costs/loss.
some people did use cheats to do so.
Difficulty is subjective. The person who plays 8 hours a day fully geared is going to have a different experience than a new player who plays maybe an hour a day.
You also have leveling players playing on the same maps as maxed 80’s. So if you’re a level 20 in blue armor with no traits to speak of you have to be able to hold up in a level 20 area.
My point? not everyone is going to be on equal footing. The people who ask for DP probably seldomly die anyway. This can all be boiled down to the same argument by elites the game isn’t hard enough
A level 20 area should be designed to be challenging enough to level 20 players that they learn how to progress through content without zombiing. If a level 20 area is so hard that people cant beat it without dying repeatedly, then the area design is flawed, and the lack of a death penalty is just hiding that flaw.
How easy would any of the 10000s of old single player games be, if you could always just revive on death.
ehhh, having a reason not to die, is not a bad mechanic.
old players won’t die as it is. New players will be too afraid to try content as they’re not welcome as it is.
Afraid? Stressed? Who the kitten EVER FEELS THIS WAY PLAYING AN MMO?
How about learn to adapt to game mechanics and better themselves? “Oh man this is tough let me practice more” “oh man I need to get better gear”
Progression.
This is the age old mentality that will never change gw2 for the better, it will remain casual and stale forever.
Almost every single new player to mmos ive ever talked to is afraid to try new content when the game has systems set up to punish them. In GW1, doing dungeon runs on hardmode, it was hard as hell to find a group if you where new to the game. i was glad my guild was willing to help the new players we picked up, as more than one was getting frustrated(and ready to leave) from trying the dungeons.
Death penalties are nothing but a frustration, and i hardly ever die. Then again, ive been playing for 3 years, know the game, know the mechanics, know how to do everything. But you know what? back when i first started i avoided dungeons, i avoided anything that required a group, why? because so many people dont want to let you learn. They would rather kick a new player than allow them to learn the encounters. I See this in dungeons all the time, even the ones that dont have any special requests for people joining groups. its annoying as hell when you get a group, one of them doesnt know the encounter, and then the rest of the group kicks them.
Just because you dont feel that way, doesnt mean people dont. This game is marketed toward the casual player. Hell even back when the game was first announced one of the bigger points they brought up was not punishing players for dying. Why do you think they removed armor repair costs. So yea, i dont think this idea will happen at all, as it goes against what they want.
they removed armor repair costs, because it was an imbalanced sink, that wasnt working that well to remove money.
as far as elitism, that already exists, and likely will always exist. People dont need DP to kick people, they kick them for any reason already.
heres the thing about not having any penalty, or system that makes you want to avoid death.
Its a huge impediment to teaching people how to play. Most people base their success on passing something, but that means your difficulty only has two levels, success and fail.
many people will say dungeons are easy, even though they wipe multiple times, and take an hour in a path. MAny people used to say grenth is an easy event even though they die 3-4 times in the event. They arent really learning how to play, they are just brute forcing a lot of content. Many people have to fail in order to realize they need to learn more.
(edited by phys.7689)
ehhh, having a reason not to die, is not a bad mechanic.
old players won’t die as it is. New players will be too afraid to try content as they’re not welcome as it is.
why would you be afraid? its a game, its not like you are really losing any levels/items/skills
Though, i will say the problem with the morale system, is it does make it harder the worse you are. but some form of anti death mechanic may not be bad in and of itself
it would be extremely anti-learning that way. The only way I’m able to even see GW1s content is by my guildies going with me and feeding me anti-death penalty consumables. Sure, eventually I will learn. But it’s extremely discouraging to even try content when you know that you’ll be punished for dying.
ehhh, having a reason not to die, is not a bad mechanic.
really?
There has been nothign officially so far about that, or I haven’t see that postign yet, that Anet did something like that or is planning maybe to increase the cap and therefore make a stress test about this in HoT.
If there is anythign officialyl about that, could you link me the thread/postign please. I would like to read it. Thanks in advance.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Increased-Bleeding-Stacks/first#post4916628
@Pax:
lol 100 Stack Condition Cap..
About what do you dream at nights??, if this seriously was meant as a serious wish..
Besides of that, ANet has already mentioned mutiple times over the past years, that the current Stack Number of 25 is a TECHNICAL LIMIT for the game.
The game simply can’t handle more stacks higher than 25. Point.
Thats why I suggested some long time ago to change the Condition System into a mechanic, that uses multiple TIERS of Conditions, so that if you apply a condition to a target like a World Boss, that easiyl gets 25 stacks of all conditions from the pure mass of players bombarding it with tons of conditions every second, the game would recognize this them and at the moment where Tier 1 of a Condition gets to 25 Stacks, the Condition changes to TIER 2 of it, resets the counter to 1 Stack and of that Tier 2 Condition and from that point on it becomes harder to increase the Stacks to higher Tier 2 Stacks.Each Condition easily could have say maximum 3 Tiers of its Condition where 25 Stacks of Tier 3 would be enough.
its a system, that wold be simply unreachable for players in PvP and WvW, but it would perfectly make Condition Builds useful for PvE, where World Bosses have millions of health and are pure damage sponges…Bleedign as Tier 1 Condition for example could have this:
Tier 2 = Deep Wound = increases the speed of Bleeding by 20% and decreases the Max Health of the Target by 20%
Tier 3 = Hemorrhage = increases the Condition Damage of the Bleeding by 25%
It would be a simple system to impriove the Condition System to make it useful for PvE, so that fighting in large battles with alot of Condition Builds would make also SENSE, where you don’t lose out your DPS as a Condition Build, where Critical Hit builds are in advantage, cause their damage system doesn’t make you obsolete, if there are already hundreds of other crit build players around you.
Simply raising only, if it would be technical possible the Condition Stack Cap from 25 to 100 would solve absolutely nothing at all. It would postpone the real problem only a tiny bit.
they were testing condi cap removal in HoT, the stress tests had no limit, or perhaps it was a high one.
@ Compers:
I don’t want it simply removed, I want it changed and adjusted into a better working active part of the Combat System, that will add more importancy to positioning and PLAYER AWARENESS of their surroundings, because many players don’t care for that if they are in a zerg for example, because they think, they get revived anyway within seconds out of their Downed State.
I want with my proposal to change the Downed Stat into a different System of a hurdle that Players have to overcome first to be able to finish off players together with the return of the way better functionizing Morale System of GW1, which worked alot better as a Penalty System to stop players from dieing through content and playing completely recklessly, because of it reducing everytime you die a large chunk of your Maximum Health, what it makes each time easier for enemies to kill you, if you don’t make a break, overthink first the way how you play and go first for some safer battles to regain back first your Maximum Health by removing your Demoralization Malus and maybe come back to the tougher battles first against, once you have gained some Morale Boost Stacks as Bonus to have the next time more Maximum Health.
With the change of that senseless Downed State which is equal to a second health bar in case that you get downed, anet could raise for everyone in regard of how much Vitality you have for example the maximum Base Health, what would be a good Game balance action against the Zerker-Meta, so that Zerkers can’t kill as easily anymore high defensive builds same as easily nearly, as like squishy targets, because of Toughness and Vitality being totally unbalanced compared to the Zerker-Meta of Power/Ferocity/Precision, where it plays basically no role if you play for example PVT in WvW. A good playd Zerker will kill your defensive build same as quickly, as when you would play Zerker too due to Vitality and especially Toughness doing such an extreme bad job of actually making it alot harder to kill you, if when you would not play such a defensive build
Thats the whole point. Downed State is a cheap excuse for why Anet hasn’t yet changed and rebalanced the whole Stat System in hope, if they keep the Downed System, that it would promote something silly like “that players would cooperate more with each other to help eachother out quickly”
morale and downstate should not be connected, they are two very different types of system, that serve completely different purposes.
Downstate is a mechanic that changes the fight tactics, and allows all players to support each other. Its basically a last ditch medic mechanic.
morale is penalty for defeat, its purpose is to set up a fail condition.
im not saying the game doesnt need penalties for defeat/dying a bunch of times, but downed state is not dying, downed state is getting close to death. Fights/the game is designed with downed state as basically being your final chance to recover, not an after death mechanic.
Downed state is not dying, downed state is basically considered to be getting low health. Like in old resident evil games, where when your health was below a certain point you moved slower, and limped.
They should just get rid of the stuff that makes stacking and meleeing virtually compulsory (if you want to maximise efficiency).
Melee has higher dps (with some exceptions) because it has higher risk and it makes buffing other party members easier.
Yes, I’m aware of that and it’s poor design.
Other games do it differently.
other games are designed so that dps rarely takes risk whether melee, or ranged. Since GW2 doesnt work that way, it wouldnt really make sense to have ranged do as much damage as melee, since its easier.
perhaps if you had to aim ranged attacks, and enemies often made you have to move, then ranged attacks could do more damage.
skilled zerkers can also avoid going down anyhow, so really you wouldnt be changing anything, but crippling the average players greatly.
You should have to be skilled to play a zerker, players should be punished for running a glassy spec. If you aren’t a good player, then you shouldn’t be able to run a super glassy spec, it’s only logical.
yeah, and they already get punished now. If you want the game to be more challenging/difficult/have better designed fights, thats fine, but it has nothing to do with the downed state.
taking away mechanics doesnt really increase depth, just makes you have less possible ways to solve a problem.
To be clear, the game would not be much harder without a downstate, it would just make the game less exciting. Trying to get to a dying person before they get killed, dodging an attack aimed at you while reviving, distracting or CCing a boss so a team mate has the opportunity to revive, or focusing an enemy to rally. This is interesting play, and choices to be made while fighting. Not having it adds nothing at all really.
Id rather have better designed, harder fights, or even have a mode where everyone wiping = a loss if the goal was more difficult content.
Also like i said, rally has very little to do with beserker, berserkers dont usually go down to trash monsters anyway, and even when they do, its rarely uncertain that enough people will survive and ressurect people.
Where downed state really matters is usually the more difficult fights, and in those fights people have to make real choices on how to recover and fight on, where the wrong choices can lead to a wipe.
You do realize this is how all MMOs work, right?
This game has always adopted the “we’re not like other MMO games” way of thinking.
Guild Wars 2s main selling point was the constantly updating living story, and for an unknown period of time, that’s gone.
Blame the people who didn’t want new content every 2 weeks, but larger chunks of content every few months.
They will likely go a lot longer than a few months. Its already been 3 months since Point of no return, and without a release date announced, it will likely be at least another 3 months before HoT (though probably longer)
so, two months betweeen sizable updates? sure 6-9 months? thats a bit long for the size of the last content release.
Downed state is the most fun thing about GW2. Also, you can really play anything in the dungeons, it doesn’t have to be a zerker, but you should still provide decent amount of damage.
Of course zerkers are most effective, something always has to be. It’s much better that they make us bring full dps build instead of having to play frustrating tank builds-
I strongly disagree with you, I think tank-healer-dps is way more interesting and diverse than dps-dps-dps. Unreasonable hate on holy trinity is pointless, as it been tested many years to be the best way to design an MMO, lack of holy trinity simplified GW2’s dungeon . Yeah sure tanking and healing might not be fun, but is stacking and mashing buttons any better than holy trinity?
Not really, a tank-healer-dps is way less interesting and less diverse than what we have in Guild Wars 2. Hate on trinity is reasonable. Lack of trinity didn’t simplify GW2 dungeons, it made them better.
There are other threads around that proved that trinity is garbage gameplay and that in this game there is no “dps-dps-dps” but people are actually supporting and controling just fine.
Just because you haven’t played in an organised group in your life (or you lack the skill to do so, missing your dedicated healer maybe?) doesn’t make the game’s gameplay any worse.
Trinity is for lazy people who want to be carried by their gear. As for button mashing? Really? In Trinity games you don’t need to button mash, you make a long and complicated macro and just use it.
Did you just said lack of trinity made GW2 dungeon better? I mean just look at current state of GW2 dungeon, they are not difficult and interesting encounter, they are just gate way of farming gold, it’s a fail. Also why are you mentioning macro? it’s so offtopic . Weather you like it or not, trinity would make dungeon better as it had been examined by countless mmo. You only hate trinity because you are playing GW2 and you are used to mindlessly mashing buttons in dungeon , trinity requires way more coordination and tactics than all dps dungeon of GW2, that is just fact. And please don’t you dare tell me dungeon in GW2 requires high skill level and deep tactics, cause that is just not the truth.
none of what you say here is true. I have recently played a pretty well crafted trinity game, and i can tell you the trinity itself does nothing for making dungeons more interesting, or difficult.
Trinity makes dungeons easier, and more obvious in what is expected. The strength of the trinity, is that everyone knows exactly what they are supposed to do/who is not.
Now that game did in fact have some better designed fights, and interesting encounters, but none of that had to do with the trinity. It had to do with non trinity designs,
like enemy placements
bosses you have to react to
bosses that move and alter player tactics
environmental effects/objects.
the problems with the game design have nothing to do with trinity, and nothing to do with downed state. They have to do with the fact that no new instanced content has existed for years, and most of the encounters/instances are not designed to require even half the depth of the combat system
e
Only lvl 30 on my first character, asked in the guild i joined what endgame is in this game, the answer they gave me was to have fun. They said there is no Raids or things like that, and in WWW gear dont mean so much. Whats the point of the game when u reach lvl 80 if u cant uppgrade ur character, do more difficult dungeons when u get better gear, hit harder in pvp etc ?. Do i totaly misunderstand them because this sounds weird to me. What are ppl doing at lvl 80 ?
Sry for bad english
All prestige items require a ton of grinding, so people still play are either grinding for prestige, or doing alts.
downed state isnt about beserker, its about teamwork clutch play, Rallying is actually a very good mechanic in pve.
You are filled with too much hate, your entire theory, is based around a hate for zerkers, when every single player gets downed.
Its odd though you want to remove one of the biggest means of support, because you want the game to have more support.
skilled zerkers can also avoid going down anyhow, so really you wouldnt be changing anything, but crippling the average players greatly.Not really. It’s not about rallying up mates it’s about killing weak enemies to get up.
I noticed that this mechanic is a bit weird when playing alone in PvE and fighting multiple enemies.
For example:
When you drop low and you fight a champ and a weak NPC you make sure you DON’T finish the weak NPC. So when you get downed you can finish the weak NPC and get up again to continue fighting the champ.Or another example:
When you drop low and fight an enemy that applies bleeding to you. It’s better if you get downed first and then finish the enemy than killing the enemy and then get downed.In such situation I somehow feel like this is a very, very weird mechanic which even might reward bad plays.
Maybe they could change it that when there are multiple enemies only killing the highest rank rezzes you (Champ > Elite > Vet > Normal) and getting downed right after killing someone with no other enemies arround should also rez you.
But that would make things too complicated I think.
if people have enough planning strategy and sustain to keep weak enemies around, team up on the weak enemy that you know your friend has tagged, and kill it before any of the enemies can kill said enemy, then i would describe that as playing with coordination.
Sure it can happen randomly, but its not reliable randomly, and thus not something that people can depend on.
It would be just as easy to blind the enemies and not go down to begin with, or have some one blast a water field, or dodge.
And i really dont see the situations pop up often, where people are dying to enemies that they can easily kill in downstate. Most deaths occur from dangerous enemies/situations where there arent many disposable enemies, or there are so many that they can kill you in downed state pretty fast. In those cases, its either everyone reviving you, or targeting and burning the enemy that you tagged, hoping to beat the clock, or both at once. Which is coordination, soo.
downed state isnt about beserker, its about teamwork clutch play, Rallying is actually a very good mechanic in pve.
You are filled with too much hate, your entire theory, is based around a hate for zerkers, when every single player gets downed.
Its odd though you want to remove one of the biggest means of support, because you want the game to have more support.
skilled zerkers can also avoid going down anyhow, so really you wouldnt be changing anything, but crippling the average players greatly.
It’s been mentioned before, and I’ll mention it again.
Making a suggestion for MH Pistol on Mesmer is fine, I’m all for it.But those people kicking off angrily at the Mesmer “only getting offhand Shield and two weapons skills!” in some of the posts that follow. We don’t know that yet.
All we know is that they are getting off-hand Shield.We do not know if they are getting a main-hand Pistol too or not. It’s quite possible. ANet just said one new weapon per profession (in this case, Shield). They did not say anything about reusing weapons the profession already has (don’t forget, Mesmer already has Pistol, just in offhand only) in different ways. Infact, they actually said they’d be taking currently existing concepts for weapons and classes and redesigning them for specializations, so hold your breathe and don’t just jump to conclusions.
Mesmer might still be getting a MH Pistol. Wait and see until there’s some confirmation they are not.
you guys boundless optimism is interesting but they already said one weapon per specialization.
you can hope for other things, but weapons, your only getting one, and its a shield.
Call me impatient or whatever, but I’m SO over waiting for the expansion now. I mean, when most games announce something so big, usually they have a price and a release date which follows the announcement, and with most new legendaries for HoT not even being in the beginning stages of conception, worries me a lot.
That’s why today I decided to use up all my tomes of knowledge on my re-rolled engineer, because I have a feeling I’ll be able to get a whole bunch more before HoT is ready, let alone has a release date.
#myhypebarrelisnowempty
I have enough stuff to level the Revenant to 80, the mats necessary to instantly gear it in full ascended of any stat but Zealot, and I’m amassing spare Tomes to instantly max mastery points as I unlock them, while waiting.
At this rate, I’ll probably be able to max out the character within hours of the expack’s release, as will many, many others.
You are honestly probably not the majority. Im not saying there arent alot of you who will do that. But there are many many more who do not, or will not do that. I know i wont be. Why? i just dont have the tomes to level my characters nor will i by the time HOT gets released. I still have stuff to do in the base game, even after 3000 hours played. Get all my characters stories done, both living world and PS. Get all mapping done, get all the PVE achievements, get all the dungeon achievements.
I have no clue how people have nothing to do, but if you want to rush through any content they add to the game that is your choice, and while there is nothing wrong with it, it just doesnt seem as fun to me!
yall are both planning on repeating content a bunch of times, i dont really see the difference.
Anet did not all of sudden decide to make an expansion just because some people complain. That’s really not how this stuff works.
If anything the reason they are switching to an expac is probably because NCSoft needed an increase in revenue for stocks.
Excuse me, but they say otherwise and have said so in various interviews. That’s exactly how it worked.
You don’t believe me, do you? Six-minute mark. Hear it for yourself.
it became clear players wanted an expansion doesnt mean they decided based on the forums, they have always said they dont make decisions based solely on forums.
Also, in his speech he doesnt talk about expansions replacing living world, but rather them existing side by side.
anyhow
I remember back when they released armor sets and people complained about those and rather wanted outfits…
Really ? I can’t remember that i ever read that .. and the word “outfits” wasn’t even
known in this game, before they started with that stuff.I remember numerous people complaining about armor in the gem store and how it was a cash grab and how armor in the gem store made this game pay to win and how armor should only be available in game. Every single armor set had threads where people posted about how ugly it was and how they wouldn’t buy them. Post after post after post of complaints about gem store armor.
So now ANet is selling outfits and people post about how they want armor and they will never buy an outfit.
ANet can’t win.
why are you creating a false connection.
armor in store versus in game
has nothing to do with
instore items being armor or being outfitsthese are seperate stances/arguments, why are you using one as a counterpoint, when there is no relation.
Because ANet isn’t currently putting armor in the gem store but outfits. They have to have something to sell you know and if gem store armor was unacceptable then outfits should be fine, yet people are complaining about outfits in the gemstore, how lazy this is and how they would never buy one.
There are several armor sets that have been datamined. Let’s see how they are put in. Hopefully in game so that people can complain about the amount of grind needed to get them.
the people complaining about outfits were complaining because they used to be much more customizable. They had more dye channels, and were seperate pieces people could mix and match.
It has nothing to do with it being in the gemstore, or called outfits.
the people who wanted more armor in game, main complaint was that they had rarely seen any additional armor added in the actual game. Essentially they wanted more armor that they could earn.
Neither of these complaints is solved by having few new armors in game
Neither of these complaints is solved by having outfits that you cant mix and match, or dye as many channels.
To be clear, the people complaining about outfits dont care what they are called, they simply want to be able to mix and match and have more cosmetic options. The reason they say they want armor is because anet changed it so that outfits arent mix and match and have less dye options.
the two issues have very little to do with each other.
and krall said that people wanted outfits over armor (which is false) in the store, he didnt really talk about people wanting armor in game instead of instore.
(edited by phys.7689)
Who cares if some angry random schmuck complains for a day? The angry minority on your forum should not decide how you run your game.
Unless you want to run it into the ground.
A day? Are you new to the forums or something? The point is that angry minority got their expansion. They did decide how to run the game. Hello? That’s kind of the point of this thread.
No new content because the expansion is taking all the resources. And that’s something we said would happen. But the expansion crowd didn’t care. They wanted their expansion.
And here we are.
if the sales were high enough, they wouldnt have done an expansion. The key is, the model was consistently going down in profits. They realized they needed to have something increase interest/sales and restart the cycle. Business doesnt like consistent contraction.
I remember back when they released armor sets and people complained about those and rather wanted outfits…
Really ? I can’t remember that i ever read that .. and the word “outfits” wasn’t even
known in this game, before they started with that stuff.I remember numerous people complaining about armor in the gem store and how it was a cash grab and how armor in the gem store made this game pay to win and how armor should only be available in game. Every single armor set had threads where people posted about how ugly it was and how they wouldn’t buy them. Post after post after post of complaints about gem store armor.
So now ANet is selling outfits and people post about how they want armor and they will never buy an outfit.
ANet can’t win.
why are you creating a false connection.
armor in store versus in game
has nothing to do with
instore items being armor or being outfits
these are seperate stances/arguments, why are you using one as a counterpoint, when there is no relation.
I remember back when they released armor sets and people complained about those and rather wanted outfits…
The circle is now complete.
this never happened, because outfits as they exist now, didnt exist back then.
Essentially the thing that people wanted more of back then, no longer exists.
Annnd that wasnt everybody anyhow
Well, at one time way back when the fight was so hard it was impossible.(I could swear this was true) And if so its a classic case of over nerfing which happens alot in MMOs. hopefully it gets tinkered with, a little bit. As its really not that epic anymore!
nope it was always easy. perhaps the lead up fights were harder, but i doubt it.
Where are people getting the idea that there is no more content before HoT?
I’m like 99% certain they said there would be no new LS until HoT but that other patches would continue on schedule. In fact we should be getting a feature patch this month at some point.
uhhh, where did you get the idea there would be a feature patch?
i really doubt they will release anything that feels like content, maybe qol improvements. They are pretty busy.
Just two new weapon skills would be a thoroughly boring update for Mesmer (especially as part of an expansion) so I expect the specialisations have more to them than just allowing you to hold a new weapon type.
oh, they will, utilities, and an elite, possibly some changes to the way shatters work, but your offense is mostly from weapon skills
So, if they can’t release content whilst working on the expansion, are you under the impression they just this last couple of months started work on it? Some time after the announcement?
Wow, they are better than even I thought possible!
My theory?
work began in earnest when season 2 began.
They werent 100% commited to doing it via paid expansion, but they wanted to release larger chunks of content, and more long term features, like guild halls, specializations etc. They would decide how to execute it later, but they were building it up just in case.
Watching their earnings, and player feedback, they basically eventually commited to the paid expansion path, my guess is it was a full commit when they started to see the earnings for q4. earnings dropping lower than ever in the xmas season.
basically screams that a change must be made.
There is a lot of things which come together to paint the picture
1)HoT is a direct continuation of the plotline and story of season 2 (content they were designing 2 years ago would have warranted a separation of concerns, or its own plotline)
2)HoT story bears the same structure and architecture as a living world release
Precursor crafting, added to HoT, is clearly something worked on before hot was planned, That it has become part of hot shows that hot wasnt really planned for years.
3)CDIs on content to be added to hot, give you an idea of when the idea was being presented for review, before anything was finalized, and was still in brainstorm phase.
So yeah, hot is basically a collection of incomplete older projects, and recently developed content repackaged to be an expansion. Nothing really wrong with that, but yeah, its a relatively recent commit, and they are using most of the projects they would have previously put out as LS, therefore they cant release LS/content because HoT is that content they would have released.
They have not as of yet developed a structure for working on large scale expansions, and consistent Living World simultaneously. The pieces dont add up that type of development structure being in place.
from what I’ve heard they wanted to add what mesmes lacks according to them, AOE dmg, obviously mainhand pistol wouldn’t fit AOE dmg role…
they added a shield.
they werent too concerned about aoe dmg.
mesmer has 2 new weapon skills, they are offhands, so generally long cool down. one of those two will be a phantasm, so it will probably be killed fast. We already got two aoe phantasms, they dont get to do much since they die with the enemy.
in short, no pistols, no aoe focus, though we may have an aoe skill.
I am glad we’re finally getting the expansion, but remember they said LS was to be it’s own team, with other projects going on at the same time. most of this expansion was developed already before living story ended, so just because it’s in beta now does not mean they could not still have some small event to tide us over. If what they said about how the teams worked, the LS team shouldn’t really have much to do right now.
In other words, you think ANet is paying them to sit in the break room and eat doughnuts and drink coffee while everyone else is working hard getting the expansion ready?
There will be a season 3 and they are undoubtably working on that. They showed a snippet of it in the Stress test.
that wasnt season 3, that was HoT. HoT is basically season 3, with more time to fully bake it, and less spaced out portions.
Eh… allow me to explain.
Living World = relatively regular content updates
Expansion = In time large expansion additionYou can’t really have it both ways without one or the other having to suffer in terms of quality
well, i think anet cant do it, but other companies can.
FFXIV is going to release their first expansion in june.
just shy of two years after going live.
during that time they put out on average 10 major patches, with the equivalent of 5 seasons of story, and what seems to be more content (including a whole new class or job)(more content than we have gotten)
they do have a monthly sub, but they dont have a cash shop focus. They probably didnt start making as much money as anet till like year 1(just a guess, they have been slowly increasing userbase)
so yeah anet cant do it, but i think thats probably because their content delivery pipelines or something are not as effecient. Not really because of money, or impossibility based on resources.
to the topic, we probably wont get any content till HoT, at best we will probably get some type of promotional event designed to get people excited for HoT. Anet just cant handle producing a lot of different content at once that effeciently. Hopefully in the future they can more effeciently turn their hard work into content that feels substantial.
Just because a few people are not offended, does not stop the joke being offensive.
Arena Net could have done anything they wanted, but they chose a subject that was sensitive. The fact is they were inconsiderate, hopefully in the future they will just give everyone SAB, that is all most people want anyway.
actually they didnt choose a sensitive topic, this was likely planned and tested months in advance.
And its not really that sensitive an issue. Its just pretending to be a plane, thats it. Its been happening since the 1950s and it really isnt about anything else. You are connecting it with something it has only a tangential connection to.
Im sympathetic to people who were affected by the plane crash, and i cant imagine how it would feel like to log into a game to find a joke on airplanes after having experienced that tragedy.
I think the least they could have done was made an acknowledgement about the crash or could have postponed teh event.
Altho it is kinda sad seeing that a lot of people are acting as if you should not care. If i were in that similar situation i would definitely care, even if it isnt anet’s fault.
thats life, Something you have to realize, is the game exists in a global context, with millions of players. Something will always be going on, and always be able to be misinterpreted by other people who are currently suffering.
You cant expect the world to stop just to be sensitive to your problems. If you lost some one in an accident should all cars stop driving down the street? If you got mugged, should people all stand 4 feet away from you on the train?
look at the intent, if someone is just living life as normal, you shouldnt make it about you. Sensitivity is two way street. If you had a tradgedy, and airplanes disturb you, dont play for a day. You really cant expect the world to stop for your pain. That is just the way things are.
Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice
so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.
Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.
I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.
if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.
People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.
a lack of belief, from the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.
now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.
I think the key was “skittles pretending to be gasoline” but good job homing in on the fact that I mentioned skittles.
Atheism isn’t the belief that God doesn’t exist. It is the lack of belief that God is a necessity for describing the universe. It is the act of saying “why did that just happen” without ascribing the possibility of anything but what is observed. If I don’t know what my car runs on, I will try to find out. I won’t say “I don’t know so it’s god until I prove otherwise.” The only reason that atheists define themselves according to what they aren’t is because the majority of people we meet define themselves by a different standard and we need to distinguish somehow.
My other posts were lost to the forum squirrels, apparently.
so by your definition, what is the difference between an atheist, and someone who says i dunno.
or is there no difference in your opinion?That is nonsense. Of course an atheist will say “I dunno” if they don’t know something. Here’s the difference: an atheist would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out,” an agnostic would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out but I can’t say for sure that it isn’t god,” and a Theist would say “God sure works in mysterious ways.”
Agnosticism and Atheism are not exclusive. Most Atheists are Agnostic Atheists in that they don’t believe in a deity but they don’t know for sure.
See my picture in my previous post.
i see your picture, but thats doesnt really make sense. Some one who believes something cannot be unsure. If you are unsure, you do not believe.
not having proof btw, does not make you unsure, it just means you have no proof.
That diagram basically implies knowledge as a degree of belief, which i dont think is an accurate representation of what knowledge means.
Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice
so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.
Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.
I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.
if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.
People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.
a lack of belief, from the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.
now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.
I think the key was “skittles pretending to be gasoline” but good job homing in on the fact that I mentioned skittles.
Atheism isn’t the belief that God doesn’t exist. It is the lack of belief that God is a necessity for describing the universe. It is the act of saying “why did that just happen” without ascribing the possibility of anything but what is observed. If I don’t know what my car runs on, I will try to find out. I won’t say “I don’t know so it’s god until I prove otherwise.” The only reason that atheists define themselves according to what they aren’t is because the majority of people we meet define themselves by a different standard and we need to distinguish somehow.
My other posts were lost to the forum squirrels, apparently.
so by your definition, what is the difference between an atheist, and someone who says i dunno.
or is there no difference in your opinion?That is nonsense. Of course an atheist will say “I dunno” if they don’t know something. Here’s the difference: an atheist would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out,” an agnostic would say “I dunno, so I’ll find out but I can’t say for sure that it isn’t god,” and a Theist would say “God sure works in mysterious ways.”
Im saying say this is the question
Does god exist?
does the atheist answer yes, no, or i dont know. as far as you see it.
i think agnostic was created because atheism was being used too broadly.
because god does not exist, and a lack of a belief in god are two very different ideas.yet you’re attaching a different definition to an already defined word. It might be used too broadly, however it still doesn’t change that the original word still carries the already defined meaning.
well i see different definitions for the word, so i cant really say what the original meaning of the word is.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/atheism
this clearly states it is a belief or doctrine.
agnostic, or i dunno, represents a true lack of a belief
atheism represents a belief in the non existence of god.the answer is one googling away!
“atheism
?e????z(?)m/Submit
noun
disbelief or lack of belief in the existence of God or gods.”Everyone is atheist to a point. For example if you’re Christian you won’t have any belief in Egyptian gods. Take that for what you will. Agnosticism and Atheism are both very much interchangeable words.
i think agnostic was created because atheism was being used too broadly.
because god does not exist, and a lack of a belief in god are two very different ideas.
Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice
so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.
Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.
I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.
if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.
People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.
a lack of belief, from the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.
now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.
I think the key was “skittles pretending to be gasoline” but good job homing in on the fact that I mentioned skittles.
Atheism isn’t the belief that God doesn’t exist. It is the lack of belief that God is a necessity for describing the universe. It is the act of saying “why did that just happen” without ascribing the possibility of anything but what is observed. If I don’t know what my car runs on, I will try to find out. I won’t say “I don’t know so it’s god until I prove otherwise.” The only reason that atheists define themselves according to what they aren’t is because the majority of people we meet define themselves by a different standard and we need to distinguish somehow.
My other posts were lost to the forum squirrels, apparently.
so by your definition, what is the difference between an atheist, and someone who says i dunno.
or is there no difference in your opinion?
Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice
so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.
Right on. Atheism isn’t a belief in the lack of something. It’s the refusal to accept untestable theories as explanations for what happens in the universe. I dismiss god as an explanation for things for the same reason that I dismiss the possibility that my car runs on skittles that pretend to be gasoline.
I don’t spend my day thinking of all of the things that God isn’t doing any more that I spend it thinking of how my dog isn’t causing the sun to emit light. Atheism is a belief in what IS rather than what ISN’T. It just so happens that theism is one of the dominant forces in our world, so we have to define ourselves by saying we aren’t part of that mindset.
if you dont know what your car runs on at all, you shouldnt really eliminate skittles from being the answer. People could build a car that runs on skittles, and you would thus be incorrect. In fact, being that skittles can power animals movements, it really isnt that improbably that one could create a car that uses the chemical energy in skittles to power a vehicle.
People have a bad habit of thinking because they do not know something, it does not exist. That isnt a logical argument. This is the same logic people would have used against radio waves, infrared and ultraviolet colors, atoms, etc.
a lack of belief, and the belief that something is false, those are two very different ideas.
now, you are free to believe whatever you want, and spend no time thinking about things you dont care about. But the lack of proof, is not a proof that something is not true. That is a mistake in logic.
(edited by phys.7689)
When someone says something incredulous, saying i dont believe them, is not the same things as saying you are a liar.
but default position of Atheism IS “I don’t believe you”. And OP is just being childish. The same way that some religious people are capable of being childish and offended over someone not believing. Lack of a belief system doesn’t make you any less human in your behavior and it also doesn’t save nor kitten you to make any more or less mistakes.
im not really arguing the childish point, im more saying that atheism is not a lack of belief, it is a belief that god does not exist.
there is a difference.
agnostic, or i dunno, represents a true lack of a belief
atheism represents a belief in the non existence of god.
atheism isnt so much, i dont believe you, so much as, you are wrong.
theist= believes in god
agnostic= has a lack of belief
athiest believes in non existence of god.
thats all im saying really.
this is why many athiests tolerate theists poorly, because their belief systems clash. That is not to say that some people are more ok with people with different belief systems to them.
Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice
so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.the default position is always negative until proven otherwise. “I have a dolphin in my bath” “I don’t believe in you”. Atheism is a similar deal. Still you can’t believe in lack of belief. That’s kind of like playing “I’m not going to play chess because I dislike it”.
default position is not negative until proven otherwise, that is fallacy. The default position is unknown.
When someone says something incredulous, saying i dont believe them, is not the same things as saying you are a liar.
its like not guilty, does not mean you are innocent, it means i do not have the suffecient evidence to prove your guilt.
mathematically,
do you believe
X = 5 based on this equation X+Y=7
the answer maybe no
but to say you believe x is not equal to 5 is a different thing.
and that is why the OP is so offended, its because his belief system and theirs clash, and he hates that his belief system feels unsupported.
If he simply did not believe, it wouldnt bother him so much, but he does believe, that their is no god.
I understand Atheism less then I understand God/Allah. Seems to be a group of people set on letting everyone else know they are wrong.
Atheism is just the lack of a belief, you are thinking of anti-theism.
If Atheism is the lack of belief how can you get anybody to believe in it?
Oh boy… okay, i’ll say it again. Lack of belief. You do not believe in lack of belief.
Ok, I ll say atheisim is more than a lack of belief, it is a belief in no god. A as a prefix means not, or non thei represents god/religion, and ism is basically a belief/practice
so atheisim, i would say is not the lack of belief in god, but rather the belief in no god.
i think agnosticism, is probably more properly a lack of belief.
Supposedly, players wanted to get their traits by having to repeat the same few events in-game over and over on every character, so they could get them like they did in GW1.
nope this is a misrepresentation. people wanted an alternate method to get new skills, which was basically like get 25-40 skill points.
Something that is off the table, in the idiom, means something that is not an option. Something that is ON the table means that it is up for discussion as an option. Whatevs. Enjoy twisting common sense to something that isn’t recognizable anymore.
New playable races are not on the table. Does this mean that it will never happen? Have they stated it will never happen?
when did they say it wasnt on the table. I think they said it isnt planned for HoT
When they say, we don’t need money for living story and updates, within the same time frame that they say precursor quests coming soon in an update.
Replacement means you won’t have to pay for precursors crafting.
Its simple logic.
They changed their business model and plan. I personally think updates and fixes to old content should be part of the original price of that content.
Item glut is an issue that appears to be growing
I keep seeing people mention that we were promised precursor crafting and new legendaries for free.
I never recall such a statement.
The only thing they ever said was that it was planned for 2013 (which was later, before the end of 2013, postponed). As far as I am aware they did never in any way or form claim that it would be a free addition.you are lawyering and loopholing
the intention was clear. At that time they had not charged for any update, even living story.
It was meant to be a regular update at no cost. Dont pretend here. And it should logically be one. The issue it was created to solve, is a flaw in the core system, not the expansion area.Have they ever stated that all updates would be free for all time and not subject to change? No. Players just made the assumption that all updates would be for free. The system they had back at the end of 2013 (we had an unintended preview) isn’t the same as what we saw in the blogpost. It looks like they changed it when they decided to implement collections and the upcoming mastery system. It’s pretty evident that Mawdrey and Luminescent armor were tests.
Expansions are part of MMO’s and many single player games. It’s common knowledge (or I thought it was until now) that players will have to buy them in order to experience the new content and features. Only a very small minority will not and would prefer to get everything for free.
It’s also debatable that the current method was a flaw in the system. Have they ever stated that it was or are you making another assumption? Just because they decided to add another method of acquisition does not mean the current system was flawed. They were just enhancing the process of getting precursors by giving players another option.
you are just lawyering, look im not trying to win a legal case, or provide an incontrovertible logical proof.
You know, i know, and anet knows.
Precursor crafting was created because as early as 2 months after the game came out, it became apparent that many players were unsatisfied with precursor aquisition. There was a long thread, devs commented therethen they talked about having a solution ready by the end of the year, price was never mentioned or implied.
dont pretend that this was always the plan, or was intended. It is clear that this was at one time supposed to be part of a regular update. Its also extremely clear it was developed because the normal aquisition was not loved.
If you want to make an argument in their favor, say plans change, they need things to make the expansion attractive, or whatever, but its really quite a stretch to say that this was always supposed to be a paid service, or that it wasnt put in place because of player dissatisfaction with the old system.
So if someone bases their argument on assumptions, and are called out on it, the ones who called them out are just lawyering? Is that really the state of things now?
Its lawyering because its readily apparent what the spirit of what was said is.
its like if a guy says he wants someone to be his girlfriend,
then when he gets caught with another girl he says they never discussed whether it was an open relationship or not.
sure, you can find a loophole, he didnt literally get caught lying, but everyone knows what was really meant.
And thats the point, just because you cannot convict someone of a crime, does not mean they are innnocent.
You know how many other arguments people make can be refuted with that logic by simply saying that they’re lawyering? Nowhere did they state that all updates would be free. It’s also assumed that the vast majority of players will buy the expansion so it was not them trying to pull one over on players by including it with the expansion. Having the precursor be part of the expansion has no impact of the majority of the player base as expansions are a part of MMO’s.
Sometimes, the spirit of what was said is clear, and people will hold you to the spirit of what you say, and not just the literal meanings.
You do realize the differences between what the Wikipedia article is referring to and this situation, right?
Do you realize the similarities?
~snip~
Forgive me, but you’re arguing about arguing. There’s absolutely no substance in this line of reasoning, and it adds nothing to the thread.
A thread where we should be very happy for the precursor acquisition we’ve been waiting for.
Should it have been sooner? Yes. Very much yes.
Was there some mystical contract that said “Legendaries must be fixed” and “there will be no expansions”? Obviously not. But to ignore prior statements without solid communication is just sloppy business, something ANet has a reputation for, by this point.
Will it be bundled with HOT? Actually, we don’t know the specifics yet, so arguing that is irrelevant. If I were handling it, I’d release the older legendaries’ collections as an addition to the base game, along with the trait redesign and some of the masteries. Anything new after that would be a part of the expansion, or at least include expansion components.The time for “should have” has passed anyway, and we’re getting a new content structure that’s actually encouraging.
What we have seen so far on it looks encouraging.
Still people who say its aquisition, for old precursors shouldn’t be tied to HoT have a point.
They said masteries would not be available to core box, therefore precursor crafting will be HoT only. If tgus has changed, or the devs are being misinterpreted, that would be fine, but as of last I heard masteries are available to expansion owners only.
I keep seeing people mention that we were promised precursor crafting and new legendaries for free.
I never recall such a statement.
The only thing they ever said was that it was planned for 2013 (which was later, before the end of 2013, postponed). As far as I am aware they did never in any way or form claim that it would be a free addition.you are lawyering and loopholing
the intention was clear. At that time they had not charged for any update, even living story.
It was meant to be a regular update at no cost. Dont pretend here. And it should logically be one. The issue it was created to solve, is a flaw in the core system, not the expansion area.Have they ever stated that all updates would be free for all time and not subject to change? No. Players just made the assumption that all updates would be for free. The system they had back at the end of 2013 (we had an unintended preview) isn’t the same as what we saw in the blogpost. It looks like they changed it when they decided to implement collections and the upcoming mastery system. It’s pretty evident that Mawdrey and Luminescent armor were tests.
Expansions are part of MMO’s and many single player games. It’s common knowledge (or I thought it was until now) that players will have to buy them in order to experience the new content and features. Only a very small minority will not and would prefer to get everything for free.
It’s also debatable that the current method was a flaw in the system. Have they ever stated that it was or are you making another assumption? Just because they decided to add another method of acquisition does not mean the current system was flawed. They were just enhancing the process of getting precursors by giving players another option.
you are just lawyering, look im not trying to win a legal case, or provide an incontrovertible logical proof.
You know, i know, and anet knows.
Precursor crafting was created because as early as 2 months after the game came out, it became apparent that many players were unsatisfied with precursor aquisition. There was a long thread, devs commented therethen they talked about having a solution ready by the end of the year, price was never mentioned or implied.
dont pretend that this was always the plan, or was intended. It is clear that this was at one time supposed to be part of a regular update. Its also extremely clear it was developed because the normal aquisition was not loved.
If you want to make an argument in their favor, say plans change, they need things to make the expansion attractive, or whatever, but its really quite a stretch to say that this was always supposed to be a paid service, or that it wasnt put in place because of player dissatisfaction with the old system.
So if someone bases their argument on assumptions, and are called out on it, the ones who called them out are just lawyering? Is that really the state of things now?
Its lawyering because its readily apparent what the spirit of what was said is.
its like if a guy says he wants someone to be his girlfriend,
then when he gets caught with another girl he says they never discussed whether it was an open relationship or not.
sure, you can find a loophole, he didnt literally get caught lying, but everyone knows what was really meant.
And thats the point, just because you cannot convict someone of a crime, does not mean they are innnocent.
You know how many other arguments people make can be refuted with that logic by simply saying that they’re lawyering? Nowhere did they state that all updates would be free. It’s also assumed that the vast majority of players will buy the expansion so it was not them trying to pull one over on players by including it with the expansion. Having the precursor be part of the expansion has no impact of the majority of the player base as expansions are a part of MMO’s.
Sometimes, the spirit of what was said is clear, and people will hold you to the spirit of what you say, and not just the literal meanings.
I keep seeing people mention that we were promised precursor crafting and new legendaries for free.
I never recall such a statement.
The only thing they ever said was that it was planned for 2013 (which was later, before the end of 2013, postponed). As far as I am aware they did never in any way or form claim that it would be a free addition.you are lawyering and loopholing
the intention was clear. At that time they had not charged for any update, even living story.
It was meant to be a regular update at no cost. Dont pretend here. And it should logically be one. The issue it was created to solve, is a flaw in the core system, not the expansion area.Have they ever stated that all updates would be free for all time and not subject to change? No. Players just made the assumption that all updates would be for free. The system they had back at the end of 2013 (we had an unintended preview) isn’t the same as what we saw in the blogpost. It looks like they changed it when they decided to implement collections and the upcoming mastery system. It’s pretty evident that Mawdrey and Luminescent armor were tests.
Expansions are part of MMO’s and many single player games. It’s common knowledge (or I thought it was until now) that players will have to buy them in order to experience the new content and features. Only a very small minority will not and would prefer to get everything for free.
It’s also debatable that the current method was a flaw in the system. Have they ever stated that it was or are you making another assumption? Just because they decided to add another method of acquisition does not mean the current system was flawed. They were just enhancing the process of getting precursors by giving players another option.
you are just lawyering, look im not trying to win a legal case, or provide an incontrovertible logical proof.
You know, i know, and anet knows.
Precursor crafting was created because as early as 2 months after the game came out, it became apparent that many players were unsatisfied with precursor aquisition. There was a long thread, devs commented therethen they talked about having a solution ready by the end of the year, price was never mentioned or implied.
dont pretend that this was always the plan, or was intended. It is clear that this was at one time supposed to be part of a regular update. Its also extremely clear it was developed because the normal aquisition was not loved.
If you want to make an argument in their favor, say plans change, they need things to make the expansion attractive, or whatever, but its really quite a stretch to say that this was always supposed to be a paid service, or that it wasnt put in place because of player dissatisfaction with the old system.
So if someone bases their argument on assumptions, and are called out on it, the ones who called them out are just lawyering? Is that really the state of things now?
Its lawyering because its readily apparent what the spirit of what was said is.
its like if a guy says he wants someone to be his girlfriend,
then when he gets caught with another girl he says they never discussed whether it was an open relationship or not.
sure, you can find a loophole, he didnt literally get caught lying, but everyone knows what was really meant.
And thats the point, just because you cannot convict someone of a crime, does not mean they are innnocent.