Guild Wars 2

Ralathar.7236:

It definitely is an amazing combo if it lands. Thankfully for balance reasons this is easily avoidable and he took so heavy of damage because he was built glass cannon. There are alot of things in this game that utterly destroy classes that do not dodge them, like 100b warrior. Thief is the only class that has a universal counter to every situation without the need for building for it thanks to shadow return and hide in shadows. Those two skills can literally counter anything in the game you can possibly throw at someone, except highs tack of confusion (which still has a good chance of being removed by shadow return.)

Is this a joke? Sure other classes might need to use a stun break from a utility (not sure if other classes have an ability like that) but what do they get that thieves don’t? Pure invulnerability modes on their weapon sets, significantly better cc in all areas, and significantly better offensive, defensive, and supportive utilities (thinking things like ele arcane abilities, omm, fgj, wall of reflection, etc.). Warrior, guard, ranger or engi could just block your entire combo if timed right, mesmer or ele could invulnerable through everything and not take a single condition. Necro could take everything and put 3 of those conditions (maybe more) on you as well as draining life force from all your turrets and you. Of course, this is all without the use of any utilities. Just because a thief countered you a certain way doesn’t mean you couldn’t have been countered any other way. You said it yourself, the combo is easy to avoid. Good on you for beating the thief. Sure, if that bad thief player was on most other classes, he’d be dead. A semi-competent player won’t be in that situation in the first place. They’d have reacted a lot sooner and not waited till 5% hp before they decided to escape.

What I’m getting from your desire to bring the trinity back is that instead of having a game based around player skill, where if a player is good enough they can do anything, you want a game that significantly devalues skill entirely and promotes class instead. I’d rather play a game that it doesn’t matter what or who you are, you can do anything yourself as long as you’re good enough over a game where it doesn’t matter how good you are, if you don’t have the right team comp, you will never succeed. That means that the 5 most skilled players in this game play the class they love the most but still not be able to beat a lot of content just because their class isn’t the right class.

This is probably why I never played WoW and why I like this game so much (wish there was more content and more difficult/rewarding content but that’s a different subject entirely).

Just because content CAN be solo’d, that doesn’t take anything away from other players being in the group. Unless a player is actively holding a group back, in how the game works now, every player can safely say they helped to make the run as fast and smooth as possible. There is also the added benefit of having exceptionally skilled players helping out not-so-gifted players while they’re still learning. 5 man groups wipe and rage quit on Lupi daily. Having 1 good player carry them through and teach them the ropes will show them that the content is do able and might keep them from rage quitting next time or might motivate them to learning how to do the fight right. It’s the whole “If 1 guy can do this, why can’t me and my 4 friends do it?” kind of motivation or w.e you want to call it. I guess what I’m trying to say is why shouldn’t a player be rewarded for being skilled instead of being rewarded for being the right class?

By the way, the strife lupi solo vid you linked isn’t a legit solo. That was done pre-reckless dodge fix. Before you could dodge out of the bubble with a dodge that had an attack at the end of it. That was considered as much of an exploit as blinking through walls and was fixed. There is a reason why strife’s solo isn’t in the dungeon solo thread.

If you want to see Lupi solo’d at normal speed or faster speed
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/links/Compilation-of-dungeon-solo-videos-1/page/2#post2132465

Or just click the link in my Sig. Also:

For another warrior doing it twice as fast and without reckless dodge.

Because it is not a acceptable avenue of a counter. No other profession needs a in game item sold at a vender to be countered. Every other profession can be countered with decent play (most of the time minus a few builds), except Thief.

Vanthian.9267:

A class should not rely on a in game item to help them in a duel. This shows that it is a unbalanced ability. Your post was pretty much dead before the first paragraph. Read the other posts when you get these “BOOM” moments, because more than likely they have been addressed.

Addressed and ignored by you. Just because you say you don’t like a certain avenue to counter something does not make it not count as a counter. You’re right though, that wasn’t a BOOM moment. The real BOOM moment was when you refuse to use stealth counters then complain there’s no stealth counters. I also think it’s HILARIOUS that you said MY post was dead after the 1st paragraph.

And I gave you other counters to letting the thief get stealth. Way to ignore them.

Vanthian.9267:

EoNxBoNx.9213:

Interrupt the heartseeker. A thief peeling from a team fight (spvp) is naturally going to spike you from far away. But it can only be 900 range with out infiltrators’. Most interrupts or blinds have 900 range.

Good awareness goes a long way.

Blinding Powder only puts a thief in stealth for 3s, if they use it far away that’s useless and would be taken out of it by the time the reach a fight.

Point in the later post being:

Engaged in fight, Thief swaps weapon to short bow. Shortbow 5, Shortbow 5—>Blinding Powder.

Your only hope to stop this would be to stun the thief after the weapon swap, even then you would be lucky to get him stunned in that place. There have been plenty of times I fought decent Thieves who can swap and shortbow 5 fast enough that my stun hits them while they travel and they still make it to their destination (Stun animation are slower than dirt on Warriors). Not many professions can cover 1800 range so quickly and with such ease unless they have every cool down up needed (such as Warrior Sword 2+Greatsword 5). I know that shortbow 5 takes 4 initiative to use, but again Thieves only really spam when they are securing a kill (obvious 2222222) or running away (555555).

I understand awareness is key in ever hoping to kill a thief, but a decent Thief will not be killed by one person.

Exactly how much initiative do you think a thief has? Holy hell you were just in a fight with a thief and you expect them to be able to swap out and use their entire initiative bar just to blink a maximum of 1800 range (in a real world senario, they’d get maybe 1200) over the course of at least 2 seconds. You’re a warrior. You saw him blink away, use rush and you’ve just covered the majority of the distance and still have 9 more abilities to use. Whirlwind and you’re already on top of the thief and you got there fast enough that he wouldn’t have even left combat.

By the way, get your facts straight. "

I know that shortbow 5 takes 4 initiative to use" " Thieves only really spam when they are securing a kill (obvious 2222222) or running away (555555).

" So so dumb. My head is exploding trying to comprehend the pure stupidity of this statement.

Thieves have 12 -15 initiative. Sbow 5 costs 6 initiative. Heart seeker costs 3 initiative. An average thief can get off 5-6 heart seekers IF a few ini regen traits kick in from criting and what not. How many blinks away can ANY thief get? 2. 2 slow projectile reliant blinks that will often hit the ground in front of your target or get you stuck on some uneven terrain.

I was going to compliment you on this thread as it is hilarious. Then I kept reading and your sheer stupidity on the entire thief everything gave me a headache. I remember you saying you have a thief but never play it cause it’s too easy. I guess we all now see either you don’t have a thief or you do but it’s lvl 2 and you have no idea what anything does because you never use it.

Vanthian.9267:

Doomdesire.9365:

Now I’m completely dumbfounded. I listed the definition and you still deny anything that presents a counter point.

Even the annoying “l2p” comments are counterpoints. Stealth is cheap? “No it’s not, you just need to l2p” That’s a counter point.

Either you are a downright troll, in which case, 10/10 or you are completely ignorant and dismiss arguments that have been presented right in front of your eyes.

I know you are dumbfounded and that is okay. Your counter points you are bringing are not against stealth, they are against people going into stealth (sort of). I am asking for at least counter to the design of stealth in this game itself.

And no, the “l2p” comments are not counter arguements. There is no skill in this game that a profession has that will counter the deign of stealth in this game. There is nothing skill wise in this game a profession (by itself without the aid of a crappy in game item you have to pay for) can use to unveil a sheathed thief.

Again, there are no decent counter arguments posted at this time. I will not pat people on the back for giving posts that missed the point.

OH you want a counter to stealth and this is a wvw thread? OKAY, Anti Stealth trap. BOOM! 30 seconds revealed. Every player of every class has access to this. If you don’t want to use one of these then quit being a troll and actually listen to one of the half-dozen posts in here that were actually trying to help you out before you showed how ignorant and unwilling to adapt you are. Darwin said it the best.

“It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent that survives. It is the one that is most adaptable to change. In the struggle for survival, the fittest win out at the expense of their rivals because they succeed in adapting themselves best to their environment.”

This is not a l2p issue

Yes it is.

Not letting it happen is only possible on certain stealth skills. Most notably the CnD skill or dagger 5. Tell me how do you counter someone trying to use blinding powder from a distance? Right, there is none. What about Blackpowder+heartseeker? right there is none.

you COULD try, oh I don’t know, NOT letting him get that far away from you in the first place. Then you could stand beside the bp so he can’t leap back into it for added stealth. He COULD walk all the way back and get 1 more hs out of it but he’ll be out of stealth in 2s and have no where to run. Use aoe and aa to find out where he is/punish him for coming in and react accordingly. You saw which way he lept first.

Engineer Grenades are just cheap. 1500 range with massive aoe damage just doesn’t provide any counter play. How can a skinny little girl throw 3 grenades on a point at farther range than I can shoot my firearm or shoot an arrow?

The point of the post is not calling the profession “OP” or amazing in anyway. I am clearly calling out the developers choice on adding a very cheap grenade design to the class. It does nothing but lower the profession to a level of unskilled play that revolves around abusing this ability (which has no true counter in this game from another profession).

OR

Mesmer phantasms and illusions are just cheap. Being able to throw them out constantly with no way to stop the mesmer from making more is unfair.

Vanthian.9267:

The point of the post is not calling the profession “OP” or amazing in anyway. I am clearly calling out the developers choice on adding a very cheap clone design to the class. It does nothing but lower the profession to a level of unskilled play that revolves around abusing this ability (which has no true counter in this game from another profession).

What class do you play? I can do this with any class and make it sound just as dumb as what you’re doing now.

Pretty much anything from the op in this thread. It’s pretty hilarious.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/thief/The-Cheapest-Class/first#post2169944

Aww the thread was closed b/c the op kept calling people dumb for not saying thief is op everywhere all the time and should have 8-10s revealed and stealth should drop on any damage intake and ignoring/insulting any advice given to be helpful. Wait, why don’t I feel surprised?

Thieves also have quite a few unblock able attacks. Your newly buffed 3 on sword is a great example.
There is not always a wall and I shouldn’t be forced into a certain fighting style to face one profession. That shows bad balanced and design. I should be able to use my skills wisely to counter as the fight goes on not rely on terrain to win. Is it nice to be able to use the terrain? Yes, but I should not be forced into using it to win.

This is filled with so much fail I am having a hard time deciding where to start…

Sword/dagger 3 is unblockable on the 2nd strike but doesn’t give stealth… you know, the thing you’re complaining about. If they use this skill from stealth, they aren’t using their stealth attacks and are either out of initiative or are out a utility skill. Being out that utility skill really helps to make sure a thief won’t be able to run away nearly as easily and have probably just lost their “oh shi” button. And if you are blocking, that thief won’t be able to land their stealth strike anyways.

You’re seriously coming onto the thief forum to complain about how op thieves are then a few posts down you blatantly say you don’t want to do counter-play against a thief. And you wonder why people say L2P and laugh off your post.
Geese I sure hope they remove block and confusion because they are sooo op. I don’t want to stop attacking or not blow all my skills when the other guy is blocking/I’m filled with confusion. It’s especially bs when they use skills like chaos storm or symbols.

I shouldn’t be forced into a certain fighting style to face one profession. That shows bad balanced and design. I should be able to use my skills wisely to counter as the fight goes on not rely on terrain to win. Is it nice to be able to use the terrain? Yes, but I should not be forced into using it to win.

It’s so nice when you can directly quote half of someone’s post to let them know just how terrible their logic sounds.

Assuming this thread is for trolling and fun, 5/10. You ranted on too long and probably should have went to general forum so more people would have seen this.

If you are 100% serious and believe in your “balance” changes then I have 2 things to say and that will sum up just how uh… smart and well thought out… your answers are.

1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OX5Fcd8syp8

2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTufHU5eQQE

hamsteak.1368:

Sokar Rostau.7316:

No. Never. Never ever. This is tantamount to saying “I don’t want to play the game”.

If you want an Asura then make a new Asura and make different choices in your story than you did last time.

BTW, roll-play is what you do when PvP consists of rolling dice and performing Strength and Dexterity checks against your opponent instead of actually using the game engine. Role play is when you play the role of a character in an imaginary world.

why are you opposed to this? how does this hurt you?

^
I’d be completely fine with starting back at story level 0 and working my way back to Zhaitan as long as I was able to keep all my levels, gear, skills, and everything else. The hardest thing I can see being looked at is, in my case, the T3 armors. I have norn t3 so how could that be looked at without losing out on HUNDREDS of gold from the armor itself, the transmutation crystals, the exotic armors used to transmute, and the runes inside the armor. I’d be completely fine with a straight cross-over though. Norn T3 to Asura T3. I don’t even know what Asura T3 looks like but either it’d look fine or else I’d be unhappy, salvage the t3 for the rune, then move onto something else. I can see a lot of people not being cool with that and I have no idea how that could be rectified.

Daecollo.9578:

Separating the skill allows me to stun and if the enemy moves away and breaks it, I don’t have to commit to the full spell, I can Infil-strike/then use my evade

That sounds like a potentially beast combo. Might also be the reason why it’s not currently separate :P

Behellagh.1468:

randomfightfan.4091:

Behellagh.1468:

perche.3215:

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

He’s offering to BUY 25,000 @ 89c. Sellers win. Flippers lose. That’s what I call a “Win – Win”. Plus it’s costing him (assuming one person) 200+g to do something like that.

You are forgetting that “playing the market” is a form of PvP with profit as the way to keep score. I dare say most players buy immediately and sell immediately or at worse over/under cut by a few coppers for one of something and they don’t even notice things like this.

How do you not understand what happened there? He bought a ton at 81 then made a ton of tiny buy orders up to 89 until other people stacked buy orders with his. It’s countless other people who made 25000 buy orders at 89. That’s flippers win, buyers lose.

The buyer may be paying a bit more but he is still saving money putting in orders rather than paying sellers. Plus as I said sellers who want to sell now are better off. And worse case the player who is now been overcut can pull his order at no cost to reconsider and try again.

Unless of course you were trying to flip rather than buy personal items or stacks of crafting material you were planning to use and the profit margin you were looking for is now non-existent. Then I can understand you being upset.

If I were trying to flip said items (which I’m not, btw, wasn’t even me who posted the screen) why would I be mad that someone else did all the hard work of increasing the market price? All that’d do is allow me to sell the crap I had collecting dust in my bank tabs without having to go through the added potential cost of manipulating the market.

Sokar Rostau.7316:

No. Never. Never ever. This is tantamount to saying “I don’t want to play the game”.

If you want an Asura then make a new Asura and make different choices in your story than you did last time.

BTW, roll-play is what you do when PvP consists of rolling dice and performing Strength and Dexterity checks against your opponent instead of actually using the game engine. Role play is when you play the role of a character in an imaginary world.

I have 7 level 80s and have played every story line of every race except char and norn (1 of each). How am I not willing to play the game just because I want the character I love to be smaller and have cooler animations? Maybe I just don’t want to go through leveling another character to 80, farm a full set of armor and weapons. Replace some of my super rare skins and t3 armor with ascended trinkets and backpiece.

Nothing else you said makes sense or is even slightly relevant to this thread.

I really hope we can buy an item from the gem shop that would allow us to change our race. Back when I was making my main character, I had no idea I was going to fall in love with the class/character so much. I like to roll-play with all my characters (every single one is an adaptation from Game of Thrones) and back when I was making my main, it was a hard decision between Norn and Asura. I had already made an Asura so I wanted to see what the Norn story was like.

After I’ve done every story line mission and pretty much everything else in the game with that character, the only thing I regret is not choosing Asura. The animations are better and the look fits the class better than my big and clumsy looking norn.

If the only thing blocking an item like this is the personal story, if you made it so the item was only available to those who completed the personal story wouldn’t that remove any possible blocks? Please make this happen. There’s nothing in this game that I want more than to make my Norn into an Asura. I am NOT willing to re-roll the class either. I’m not willing to lose out on all the soul-bound weapons and armor and I’m also not willing to completely delete and erase a character which I have over 1500 hours played on.

To what purpose.
Go run S/P.
Tell me the issues you actually get with it.

As many have said, 3/4s delay before you evade isn’t good in many situations. Twitch evades would be significantly more useful. Not to mention sometimes a player will want to turn around and stun a target (even temporary stuns) then capitalize with other skills. Someone might want to stun with the 1st part then drop caltrops or SOMETHING.

I’d also just like to say I never said the change is necessary, it would be nice to have though. The change on ele earth grab wasn’t necessary, it was nice though. The change on fs wasn’t necessary, it was nice though. The same could be said with any other 2 part skill in this game. It might not be necessary to break them into 2 uses, it’d sure be nice if they were (if they already aren’t) for most of them though.

You’ve really done nothing to the issues PW has.

Separating it into 2 parts would do a lot to help with many of the issues it has. I simply described a few situations where you clearly didn’t fathom the benefit. I know you didn’t think of those, look at your quoted point above. Then you call me dumb and your reasons for doing so is…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

Daecollo.9578:

… you have less swings which increases its value on EVERY other attack in the game.

That’s all it needs improvement on. Less swings. That’s it.

I’d rather have it stab once, really.

Not a bad idea but then that’d just completely ignore the evade portion/concept of the ability. It’d turn from a control/survivable attack into an undodgeable burst IF the stun lands. It might be too much to force a player to use a stun break against a skill that could be cast multiple times in a short time. Just my 2 cents.

ensoriki.5789:

That’s fine. I’m slightly perturbed at someone trying to tell me what I do and do not understand. Forgive me if while typing I do not take the time to go through every single strategy and use of a skill in my head in an attempt to be as brief as I know how.

What happened was that you said it wouldn’t make a difference/would help at all. Myself and others disagreed with you, adding in new points and views that you didn’t seem to think of. You then retorted by calling me dumb (and indirectly others) because we thought of situations where breaking the skill into 2 parts would be amazing. Forgive me for being annoyed by someone when they insult my intelligence when all I’m doing is adding different (and valid) perspectives to a situation.

silvermember.8941:

Dante.1508:

I miss Robotech, Macross and Thundercats now they were real cartoons, not this DBZ stuff..

You are right, they were real cartoons BECAUSE DBZ IS AN ANIME NOT CARTOON.

edit: dont you hate it when you are trying to be clever and it totally falls apart? (in this case being me).

I thought cartoons were animated too…

(Queue anime vs cartoon vs manga differences rant!)

MrForz.1953:

Another often underrated stratagem is to exploit their often oversized ego. Make baits, get them to make a choice between leaving for recovery of finishing the job, you’d be surprised about the number of thieves choosing the latter option just to get completly wrecked when falling for it. Of course, it’s all psychology, and being an Engineer surely does help, but I’m sure that alot of other classes can eventually pull it off, the Guardian, the Warrior, the Mesmer, the Elementalist, and maybee… the Ranger.

The trolliest thing I’ve ever done to myself was fight this engi with my tank/control warrior. Every time I’d cripple the engi, it’d give immobilize. Problem is, the engi would go invisible every time I immobilized him. There was nothing I could do since everything I did would cripple/immo the guy but by the time I’d get to where the guy went invisible, he would no longer be immobilized. Not to mention the engi was tanky enough that even if I managed to land everything on the guy, he could just laugh it off.

Not to mention you could have just dropped a smart stealth trap. They’re not expensive and you had 4 people. If a thief trips one of those, it’s insta tears as it usually means they have to hide very far away for the next 30s, or die.

ensoriki.5789:

To what purpose.
Go run S/P.
Tell me the issues you actually get with it.

Stability, retaliation, the wind up of pistol whip, and the damage you deal considering that wind up. You’ve really done nothing to the issues PW has.
Instead it has everything that is problematic but it’s seperated for completely arbitrary reasons.

Then you have the BP which is primarily just a stomp or combo field for your other weapon set. When using it for S/P itself generally the loss of damage due to it’s low base number screws you over for the initiative cost.

But how does seperating PW into two skills that work exactly the same as now with the only change being they are seperate remedy it’s faults? The moment you boosted up the damage you already gave PW a significant benefit and just made it more rewarding to land it. Seperating it at that point is just adding arbitrary flexibility.
If it’s more rewarding to land your PW there isn’t an issue.
If it’s easier to land the stun then there is less issue.
But seperating the skill doesn’t actually make landing the PW itself easier anyways which was the main qualm in terms of responsiveness.

You clearly have no idea what splitting it into 2 skills would do. You’d now have an on demand stun that can be used on the move and an on demand evade that deals good damage. It would require set-up which would also increase the skill cap of the build. If you really don’t see the greatness of an on-demand evade like that then just look at blurred frenzy. If that’s not good enough, look at how horrendous the evade is on pistol whip. What good is an evade when you have to wait 3/4s before it even goes off? There isn’t one. And if you really think bp is only good on d/p then you’ve been using it wrong.

Will split 100b into two skills next so you don’t get fully screwed if they dodge.

I never realized 100b was a 2 part ability. Here I always thought everything was straight forward.

If you really wanted to compare it to a skill and actually make sense and have a point, you should have compared it to something like the Ele dagger earth grasp skill (that was split into 2 parts for added usability) or mesmer sword 2 (which is in 2 parts for added usability) or warrior sword impale (only warrior 2 part skill I could find yet it too is split into 2 parts). I guess you could argue rush could be broken into 2 parts, first part to rush to your target, 2nd would be to use the damage. It would help as right now the warrior can get locked into the rush animation for too long since the game doesn’t believe they are close enough to land the damage yet…

Sir Vincent III.1286:

I’m not a fan of skills that roots me. Besides, how are you going to hit your target with your “Sword flurry” when your target can move because they are no longer stunned while you are rooted slashing at nothing?

You COULD cast the ability twice, doing the exact same thing that pistol whip does now. If pw was changed like this I do believe it’d make the skill crazy op. Instead of having the disgusting delay between cast and evade, you could potentially have Blurred Frenzy but with initiative and a 2.5s cd (cast times). It’d be strong enough that soloing Lupi on a thief would be just as fast as soloing on warrior.

Kaaboose.3897:

randomfightfan.4091:

Kaaboose.3897:

Solo chalenges like that SHOULD exist for the players that want them IMO. But that should NOT be possible in a team scenario. If it’s possible to SOLO a team effort then what’s the point in brining a team? There’s no need to work together if each of you is capable of doing the encounter on your own.

What’s the point? Getting the content done 5x faster, thus, 5x easier is one big point in bringing a team. Why solo a dungeon (aside from wanting the challenge and status) if it takes an hour to solo but 10 minutes as a team?

Because these players are after something, ANYTHING, at this point that can provide SOME semblance of a challenge. That’s why they do it.
And IF it is possible to solo boss then how is this boss ever going to pressure a group into working as a team?
What it boils down to is instead of a 5 man team, you have 5 players tackling a single player objective together.
This makes perfect sense in the open world but NOT in a dungeon.

I just did an arah run with a group where people left b/c they just couldn’t get past Lupi to save their life. After adding me, they all died to Lupi twice during 1 fight, me needing to keep the boss from resetting and the other guys getting ressed by the guy using up his res orbs. We beat the boss after the 2nd wave of reses finished. I’d be VERY surprised if anyone would consider this boss a soloable objective.

These players are also after rewards. Soloing content takes so much time that it’s not worth the reward. They do it for other reasons. Just because a player has solo’d 5 dungeons doesn’t mean they’ll never group up in those dungeons again. It probably means that player will never solo that content again but will be an invaluable asset to a team. Even the best players like to relax when doing rewarding content every now and again.

With the proper play, any boss in any game is soloable with the proper play. It might take some extreme skill but it’s possible. That still doesn’t make it a non-team objective.

A level 36 engi solo’d the spider queen in ac, yet groups of 5 level 80s wipe there.

To be completely fair, almost every time you tried to do anything about the thief, you did something to mess it up. You did good to run towards the black powder. That made it so he could no longer use the field to chain stealth… but you shouldn’t have ran into it. You hit the thief multiple times but every time it missed cause you blinded yourself. On top of that, if you or an ally had continued to get into those fields and fast, the thief could not have continued to chained stealth. Also every time you threw your traps, you threw where the thief was instead of where he was headed. You could have cut off choke points so either he’d damage himself big and let all you know exactly where he was and where he was heading. That OR he’d be forced into a smaller area. At around the 1 min mark in the vid, you got blinded then just kept running forward. That was your queue that the thief was running past you in the opposite direction.

It would have been really hard to do anything to take the thief out of his sr with your setup (2 rangers, 2 warriors) but if you had one of any other class, it would have been easy. I know the situation sucks for you and it would have taken some very strong play to counter that thief but it was doable. I agree that something should be done to decrease the effectiveness of d/p stealth but stealth itself isn’t nearly as bad as most people seem to think.

Put it this way. Exactly how much damage were you taking while the thief was spamming his stealth?? How many people could the thief have portaled in to the keep if you let him go? How much damage could he have done to anything if he was left to roam free (think about all the vets guarding everything and all the traffic that flows through sm)? And what could do more damage. You and your 3 friends doing something else or that 1 thief sitting inside the walls, alone, with no way to bring anyone else inside?

Ralathar.7236:

randomfightfan.4091:

Azraeel.1238:

Seriously? To be able to do 10k+ BS you need to go full Glass Cannon, and to be able to regenerate while in stealth you need 30 points in Shadow Arts for Shadow’s Rejuvenation (Regenerate health while in stealth). You can’t get both. Now I won’t say learn to play, but at least learn what thieves are capable of and what they aren’t capable of before nagging.

Remember that you’re talking to an average MMO player on a forum. If they hate on something, they will lie, cheat, and steal to “prove” their point. Can thief hit 10k backstab? yes. Can thief regen 500 per second in stealth? yes. Can they do both at the same time? no. Does that matter to the haters? no. Their argument could be against a 30-30-30-30-30 thief and still there’d be a legion of haters come in to support the hate.

I’m not saying anything against the guy you’re responding to personally, just the thief-hate community in general.

This applies equally to thieves complaining about survivability and the NEED for stealth amongst other things. All sides do this nonsense.

I’ve never once complained about survivability. I’m not sure about anyone else but the only thing I’ve noticed on the subject is people describing how stealth is intertwined with thief survivability. If they nerf stealth, they’d need to buff survivability or else thief would be at a significant disadvantage.

I’d just like to elaborate. Stealth does nothing to protect the thief if they’re getting hit. What it does is makes it harder for the thief to get hit. I’m pretty sure most people have no idea about that little factor when they complain about stealth. A LOT of people believe thief in stealth = immortal god mode.

Rama.6439:

pricer.5091:

Persoanlly I spent the most money when I was grinding mats for Volcanus, just to get those bits I didnt quite have. As the next thing I am going for (legendary) seems to be now so far out of reach that it is nigh on impossible, I have vowed to not spend any more money until those T6 Mats start dropping like they used to.

Same here, I have bought gems in the past and have planned on doing it again for 2 more chars I have yet to lvl cause they will need more bag space and I like to have that maxed out.
But my first goal was to finish my legendaries, I’m currently in the middle of crafting 2 and all I need for them are the T6 mats and now with the T6 nerfs it seems impossible and if they don’t set the loot tables right then I see no reason to continue playing a game that pretty much has failure in it’s coding.
I mean let’s look at it like this, they are trying to say that the farming nerfs were a bug fix to fix spawning issues, well, I know something about this. I know that when you set a spawn all that you do is set the type of spawn “creature” rate of spawn “time at which they will spawn per min” amount “how many spawn” and range “the area that the mob can go before it turns back to the spawn area” So if there was an issue, where is the issue with the loot here?

I very much doubt we will get a response here cause I called Anthony out on this on the first page for lying about this. I’d like a developer to give us some lame explanation.
Watch, I bet I get an infraction…

To be fair, if you get infracted, it’ll be for calling out ANet in a spiteful way.

I remember that warrior crying about thief quickness! That was pretty funny. Best part is how he brought up invis. If he had any common sense he’d know invis = not attacking.

My favorite is this one necro complained how this thief was perma invisible and there was absolutely no way he could retaliate against this thief. He showed a combat log of the thief landing 3-4 cnd+backstabs along with several auto attacks. What did the necro land? Nothing but the passive mark he gets when he dodges.

Walorx.5129:

So I was watching the original Japanese version of this episode and I was so pumped when it was coming up to this part… Until he said the power level is over 8000. EVERYTHING I KNOW IS A LIE

The original Japanese and Kai versions get it wrong and say 8000. Not everyone is perfect, even they can get it wrong.

aeneq.1760:

So you are saying he bought at 81, then selling the stuff at 89/90? With the TP fees he would be going -4c profit on that transaction (using “bad things” you can get close to 0 but never positive).

Not sure how you were thinking here… But lets assume he turns 1c profit on this and also assume its ONE person with 25000 items (which is not possible or up there with the universe exploding) then he would turn an impressive 2.5g profit…

If you are looking at market manipulator in this volume then you are looking at people with some big pockets and the risk/reward/effort is def. not worth it with anything that costs less than a few silvers.

It’s still what the guy did. You can argue logic all you like but the fact is the market was manipulated and the buyers will always be the loser in these situations.

Obsidian.1328:

ColinJohanson.2394:

randomfightfan.4091:

I’ll pit my Galic Gun against your Kamehameha any day.

YOUR POWER LEVEL IS AMAZING!!! IT’S OVER 9000!!!

Colin, I realize this is all in good fun, I get that. But when was the decision made to turn Guild Wars into a cartoony, theme-park game that appeals to either very casual, or very young players?

Honest question. :/

Dragon ball came out over 20 years ago!!!!! The very young have no idea who’s Goku.

Stick with 6 scholar. You’re only going to get better at this game the more you play so wearing scholar gear is just added incentive to get better.

I would but I’m afraid I’m a terrible player. Like THE worst.

When people are posting like this, it gets a little too much to handle.

Behellagh.1468:

perche.3215:

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

He’s offering to BUY 25,000 @ 89c. Sellers win. Flippers lose. That’s what I call a “Win – Win”. Plus it’s costing him (assuming one person) 200+g to do something like that.

You are forgetting that “playing the market” is a form of PvP with profit as the way to keep score. I dare say most players buy immediately and sell immediately or at worse over/under cut by a few coppers for one of something and they don’t even notice things like this.

How do you not understand what happened there? He bought a ton at 81 then made a ton of tiny buy orders up to 89 until other people stacked buy orders with his. It’s countless other people who made 25000 buy orders at 89. That’s flippers win, buyers lose.

Wiz.1543:

ColinJohanson.2394:

randomfightfan.4091:

I’ll pit my Galic Gun against your Kamehameha any day.

YOUR POWER LEVEL IS AMAZING!!! IT’S OVER 9000!!!

I finally know his secret: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq4Kx51S-WM&list=PL6EC7B047181AD013&index=18 Time: 7:41

BTW they are still making new episodes ^^

Muffin Button

Kaaboose.3897:

Solo chalenges like that SHOULD exist for the players that want them IMO. But that should NOT be possible in a team scenario. If it’s possible to SOLO a team effort then what’s the point in brining a team? There’s no need to work together if each of you is capable of doing the encounter on your own.

What’s the point? Getting the content done 5x faster, thus, 5x easier is one big point in bringing a team. Why solo a dungeon (aside from wanting the challenge and status) if it takes an hour to solo but 10 minutes as a team?

I think I have the answer to your question. You know that the field/combo on d/p 5-2 is extremely expensive and most of the time one will only be able to get 2 rotations off, 3 if they use a utility. The ini cost isn’t a problem and neither is the stealth. Nerfing thief damage is just a dumb idea b/c that’s all a thief has. It would just be an unfair nerf. As you seem to believe, blind is the true problem with d/p and that’s a very valid claim.

If the field from pistol 5 was reduced by 1 second, thieves could still use the field for stealth but they wouldn’t be able to stack moderate amounts of stealth. The amounts of blinds given off would be reduced quite a bit but the usability of the weapon combo would still be there. Much of the portrayed cheesing would be reduced and noobs would have a better chance vs thieves (they’ll still probably die since they believe invis = teleported to the enterprise).

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

If we didn’t want players to be able to farm, we wouldn’t have put in the huge (and free) magic and gold find buffs for Southsun Cove. We wouldn’t drop loot from the giant mobs of creatures that appear in upscaled events. We certainly wouldn’t have put in chests that appear after events which cycle every 8 to 10 minutes. How quickly all of that content goes completely forgotten in the angered responses to a simple change to an area that was clearly bugged. :/

To be completely fair, you’re nerfing the areas that drop crystaline dust, ancient bones, venoms, and bags that contain t6. The area where you’ve given a temporary buff gives karka shells. Sure bloods and venom MAY drop once in the bluest of blue moons but it’s nothing like how they drop from risen. Also you aren’t just nerfing exploits and bugs. RIP Plinx.

Kaaboose.3897:

This threads on the Trinity in PvE, not PvP.
Unless you WERE refering to PvE in which case you’re just suporting the DMG>ALL META that we currently have

I probably did respond to something that was a little off topic but oh well, I’ll come back to the topic at hand. I believe something should be done to increase the difficulty so that 5 noobs in zerkers can’t just instantly annihilate anything, but if a player is good enough to pull off full zerker and NOT die, then he/she should be rewarded with exceptional dps. In the case of slave driver in CoF, that is a GREAT boss for killing pure zerkers. If the hp was flat out doubled on that boss, we wouldn’t be seeing people just face-tanking it until death, people would actually have to dodge and you know, use some skills.

If you watch any of the Lupi solo vids, you’ll notice that every player used pure dps gear not because they wanted to plow through the content before a threat could surface (they’re soloing Lupi, they’d have to be skilled to do that in any gear), but instead they wear it b/c they can handle the no-survivability-if-hit senario. They want to kill the boss a few minutes faster b.c the faster it dies, the less time they have to make a fatal mistake.

TheGuy.3568:

randomfightfan.4091:

what we don’t have is aoe,

I seem to remember this thread and this video made by you claiming the opposite. Stick to your guns if you are going to argue ad nauseum.

If you still didn’t get what I was trying to say throughout that thread, we have lots of options for aoe, they just aren’t great vs a zerg since you need to stay back and wait for cluster to land or you have to get in close and most likely die since you’re too close and not stealth in said zerg. In pve and pvp the aoe is great b/c you don’t need to worry about 50 players jumping you. Since all thief qq threads are about wvw, I thought it was pretty safe to assume you were talking about a wvw setting. In a pvp setting, I’d say only ele and necro are better for aoe while neither compare for single target.

Last thing, why are you talking about stealth vs virtues and shatters when the only thing I was comparing to virtues and shatters was steal? I was just bringing up the f skills that’s supposed to define a class. Not accusing or anything, just not sure what we’re talking about here. Little confused about the topic jump.

It’s a step in the right direction if we can sell unwanted skin tokens

I’m all for nerfing the areas where a braindead monkey could be successful as long as they add something that’s actually difficult for a team to beat (like a really hard dungeon) that rewards those who do beat it with the best loot in the game with loot that’s specific to the area. In order to pull that off they’d have to make it so 90% of the players can’t beat the content but the skilled groups could. Who knows, it might give the skilless players something to strive for in the future.

tldr~Nerf skilless content, make/buff content so the higher the challenge, the greater the reward.

I know everybody has seen this before and it remains hilarious every time.

I walk into tkitten jp, I see a thief, the thief used 2 heartseekers to get into range to heartseeker me. He heartseekers again. I dodge it. I’m still full hp. He heart seekers again. I use his stationary body, flying towards me for a free cnd. He spams it 2 more times while I’m invis. I don’t know what he’s aiming at. I think he’s out of initiative. I backstab him, he’s down to 10% hp. I decide to show him how heartseekering is done in the pro-leagues. I cast it once, hit him once, he’s down.

I didn’t even stomp this guy. He was so funny that instead I cnd his downed body, typed /laugh after I came out of stealth then chained cnd until he withered away.

This persona guy is pretty funny. I have to break these apart just to show how hilarious his counter points are.

Persona Dude.2105:

I have never seen a perma stealth die from 1 rifle shot from a warrior. The thief would need to have full zerker gears for that to happen.

Most thieves are since they need to be in a burst build to do burst damage. If they don’t have a burst spec, their damage is usually junk. There is a good condition spec but that’s attrition spec.

Retaliation got a nerf and Guardians do not have the highest health in the game

Is that all? I was for wondering if you were going to continue that point. Your only complain is that the class with the best survivability is that is doesn’t have the highest hp pool to compliment that tankiness? That is what the game designers call a balance strategy. You’re right though, retal was nerfed, because it was disgustingly strong. A retal+burn/block guard could kill a thief without ever attacking.

Mesmers can only destroy zerker thiefs in one shot

I didn’t edit anything, this is what he said. They can only kill thieves in 1 shot. Only. I don’t think there’s anything wrong with being allowed to burst hard, it’s just funny that you chose this as your argument.

Elementalist mist state is pretty annoying, but the example you are stating applies on only certain circumstances.

The circumstances where this applies is about 75% of circumstances in wvw.

Engineers are by no means overpowered, though their conditions are killer, the turret is a elite skill with a long cooldown so before you start making counter arguments learn the other classes.

Have you played an engi in pvp yet? They are god tier. If they aren’t op then I don’t know what is.

I have a thief, and I can say that we are overpowered. Thieves can choose to run away from their battles at any time, but what is the point of complaining here when the developers can’t even fix bugs like the mesmers phantasmal zerker. You sir are probably a full zerker thief which is why you are complaining about dying fast and the other people who posted in this thread are pretty much admitting that thieves are overpowered. I believe that stealth needs a hard counter. The stealth trap is not stopping anyone. There needs to be a way to counter perma stealth. Thieves have high damage and they always have the option of running away.

So according to you, all the other classes are fine at everything but thieves are overpowered because they can run away from fights when they are losing. How is that any different from anyone else who runs away when they are losing? Seriously, your logic is so bad. You even go on to say stealth needs a hard counter because no one is using the hard counter to stealth so it must be underpowered (30s revealed, so weak) and so you need yet another hard counter to stealth. There needs to be a way to counter perma stealth? USE THE FREAKING ANTI STEALTH TRAP. Seriously, what is wrong with some of these people.

You are clearly just another thief hater, why are you trying to act like you are a thief by saying we?

@ prip, if you really think this game doesn’t reward for good timing and clever play, maybe you should switch to something that isn’t bunker. I suggest playing a thief. I can’t say much for pvp as I hate the crap on a point playstyle but in pve and wvw the clever playstyles and quick thinking is the difference between life and death. If you’re saying it’s not rewarding at all for any class then you have not seen it done properly. Lastly, those clever things you’re talking about (blasts in water or big bomb in a smoke field) will win you an extended or outnumbered fight. Keep practicing those things as you don’t have to sacrifice dps to pull off tricks like that. Once it feels natural to play your class to its fullest, you’ll be able to roll over the majority of people you find.

Would never have thought about looking at sigils. Thanks

Sbow is decent in a vs group setting but kind of trash in vs a single target. What if when the thief was within the bounce range of their aa (if no enemy in range), they could catch the bouncing arrow and shoot 2 arrows at once at the target. Can only shoot 2 arrows at a time. This could possibly be op, possibly be useless since it would usually be better to use a melee weapon in that range, but it could also add a cool new dynamic to the weapon.

TheGuy.3568:

I am not saying thieves should be easy to catch, but I feel that it doesn’t make sense to give a class so much capability to escape and gap closers without some sort of way to balance it vs other classes incapability to do the same.

To clarify no I do not think mobility or stealth should be nerfed. This class has seen enough nerfs. That being said I think there is a balance issue with this.

You’re talking in circles. You don’t think they should be nerfed but they are too strong together? Doesn’t make sense. Btw, thief needs the mobility b/c they can still get hit while stealth. You don’t need a target to kill someone. We do have good burst, mobility, and stealth, what we don’t have is aoe, cc, any source of damage mitigation (aside from evades), or a good class mechanic (steal can either be pretty good or near useless vs something like virtues or shatters). If there were only 3 mechanics to this game I’d say having all 3 is op but since there is more than 3, it’s completely fine that a slippery burst class is slippery and bursty. If they were given aoe attacks on all dagger attacks, sbow projectile speeds and cast times increased/quickened 300%, and given stability and invulnerability, then thief would be disgusting.

FalconX.9287:

and lol @ randomfightfan who is actually posting trinity gameplay mechanics but thinks trinity is dumb

Having each class swap between ranged and melee to adapt to the situation and healing themselves is trinity gameplay? No one being the tank but instead everyone keeping themselves and each other alive through dodging, blocking, invising, and resing is trinity gameplay? People being ranged in order to confuse the boss mechanics while doing subpar damage is part of trinity gameplay? Zerker people in melee range to do max dps is trinity gameplay? Here I always thought it was stupidly tanky people in front, something that deals a ton of damage nearby, and someone with too many heals supporting the tanky guy.