Guild Wars 2

yeah that’s why GlassDoor is full of disgruntled Anet engineers complaining about incompetent/impetuous upper management, crappy pay, brutal deadlines etc…

yanipheonu.5798:

IT’LL NEVER END.

It’ll never end until Anet stops trying to ripoff its existing customers, no.

briggah.7910:

Buy another character slot and you won’t have to delete a toon.

You missed the point.

Why do existing players have to pay $60 to play the expac when new players pay $50 and get the whole core game thrown in as well?

Why are veteran players who don’t pre-purchase expected to delete one of their characters, with potentially 100s/1000s of hours invested, in order to enjoy the new class that’s part of the expac? Why are we expected to pay more than everyone else?

And more concerningly, why do you have such a low degree of respect for your existing players?

An expac that adds a class ought to come with a character slot for all, automatically.

Ashen.2907:

I agree that losing progress as part of the fix would be a poor solution.

Yet that is what is expected of vet players who don’t pre-purchase. We’re expected to delete a character in order to enjoy the new class in the expac.

MattyP.6954:

There’s nothing shady going on. The standard MMO Expansion costs between $40 and $50, and that is what Heart of Thorns costs.

That’s not true at all, other games charge as low as $20 for expansions.

Also, other game’s expansions for $50 come with a LOT more content.

Also, the effective price of the expansion is $60, because the included character slot is not included for all.

And I’m sorry, but not including a character slot in a 3 year-old game for an expac that adds a class IS shady. It basically means veteran players (who used up their 5 slots long ago) get the worst deal, on top of that, are expected to subsidise the purchases of new players (who get the core game included).

Tere.4759:

Wow, complain when they don’t give you what you want and complain when they do give you what you want. Those who don’t pre-order should NOT get a character slot.

How do you figure that? In order to enjoy all aspects of the expac (ie: create a revenant), you need a character slot. The game’s been out for 3 years, most vet players used all 5 of their slots ages ago. Why should the most loyal customers get the worst deal?

Prepurchasers already get beta/early access, so it’s not like they aren’t already rewarded.

Existing players are subsidising new players through the rather huge disparity in the different value offerings to existing and new players ie: for the same price, new players get the entire core game.

OK, no problem, this makes business sense, though it remains to be seen whether these new “welfare players” are subconscious or openly resented by long-term players.

However, what troubles me most as a player, of any game, is the notion that an expansion that adds a new class doesn’t automatically come with an included character slot FOR ALL.

This is just plain common sense for a 3 year-old game where virtually every veteran player will have used all of their character slots a long time ago. It’s not a pre-purchase bonus either – pre-purchasers already get beta/early access, and it’s not like having to buy an extra character slot is optional in most cases either – most veteran players already have all slots filled with characters that have had 100s/1000s of hours invested.

It’s akin to buying a new car and having to pay extra for the wheels. It’s a cheap, cynical way of gouging a few more $$, and contrary to the recent blog post, demonstrates close to zero respect for existing customers. It’s worse than the new car without wheels example because for Anet, character slots cost them almost nothing, just a few extra rows in a bunch of existing database tables.

I think it’s appalling behaviour to be honest, especially when the business model is already based on having veteran players subsidise new players, who get a much better deal for the same amount of money. An expac should come with ALL the facilities for EVERYONE to enjoy all aspects of the expansion out of the box.

Veteran players have just as much right to enjoy all aspects of the expac as others who are paying the same amount of money, and this means being able to create and play a revenant out of the box, just like everybody else, with no hidden extra charges.

Why are vet players who don’t pre-purchase expected to delete one of their characters, with potentially 100s/1000s of hours invested, in order to enjoy the new class that’s part of the expac?

Any which way you spin it, we’re just getting screwed. For being loyal customers.

New players certainly ARE getting a much better deal & existing players ARE effectively subsidising new players – it’s “new player welfare”.

What IS unfair though, is for an expac that adds a class to not come with a character slot FOR ALL.

Skater.9281:

scerevisiae.1972:

They haven’t addressed our concerns:

• new players get so much beter value for money than existing players for the same amount of money, ie: existing players are being made to subsidise new players.
• not including a character slot in an expac that adds a class unless they pre-purchase is just screwing your playerbase.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/pre-purchase-community-address/

Plisa, read…..

Char slot is only if you pre-purchase.

Ayrilana.1396:

Ever heard of pre-order bonuses? Same concept.

Prepurchasers already get beta access,that’s enough of a bonus.

It’s also about fairness.- why should vets who don’t prepurchase get such a worse deal than new players for the same money? Why should vets subsidise new players?

Mo Mo.1947:

Bryzy.2719:

If ArenaNet had just said “this is the revised offer: vets get free slot with pre-purchase”, and not added the misleading, disingenuous BS about “veteran loyalty” then I wouldn’t have made this thread.

Even without saying the words “veteran loyalty”, veteran loyalty is implied by your suggestion of them saying “this is the revised offer: vets get free slot with pre-purchase”.

A reward for vets is a reward for veterans who remain loyal to the game by prepurchasing.

I think you’re just caught up on the wording. They made this new offer in response to large outcry from veterans about not getting a reward for their loyalty.

By bringing up “veteran loyalty” in their community address they’re saying, hey yeah you’re right we’re gonna give you something for being loyal customers and sticking with the game for so long.

Just coming out and saying, “oh yeah, so we revised the offer and current accounts can get an extra slot” could just as easily come across as a quick shushing of the complainers. “Here take your character slot and move on, thanks.”

Any kind of statement they make could be interpreted a few different ways. Both good and bad.

It’s never been about getting something for being loyal, it about existing players getting a much worse deal than new players, for the same money.

Yep, have come to the same conclusion.

Entenkommando.5208:

The core game has been in sale for 10$.
As a veteran you get a character slot worth 10$ while new players get the core game, that cost 10$ before (as ANet states it’s even 100% free now)

Problem solved.

Probably would be problem solved if the char slot was unconditional, ie: was available after release.

I’m reluctant to spend $$ when I have little idea what i’m getting. At the moment I don’t see $50 worth of expansion.

Not to mention, shortchanging existing players in order to subsidise new players doesn’t exactly leave me feeling valued or rewarded as a long-time customer.

Zephyra.4709:

Pretty much every new game has a thing called ‘pre-order’ or ‘pre-purchase’ and when you do that there is generally SOME form of ‘bonus content’ you get for pre-purchase/ordering that others who DON’T pre-purchase/order get when the game is actually released.

You get beta access as a reward.

What reward do I get for being a loyal customer for nearly 3 years? diddly squat. meanwhile new players get the whole core game. for the same amount of money

hardly fair…

attempt to fix forum bug

They haven’t addressed our concerns:

• new players get so much beter value for money than existing players for the same amount of money, ie: existing players are being made to subsidise new players.
• not including a character slot in an expac that adds a class unless they pre-purchase is just screwing your playerbase.

This whole greed/deception thing has left a real sour taste in my mouth.

They talk about trying to be the best value in the market but are too cheap to provide a character slot in an expansion that adds a class.

It’s not good value for new players to get so much more than existing players for the same amount of money.

Yuri Kwon.1069:

Just don’t buy xpac and pay for Fallout 4. You might play for 100 hrs max i guess. I would rather buy xpac and play hundreds or thousands hrs. Good-Bye

10 hours of original content and 900+ of grinding/repetitive content you mean…

Personally I have zero interest in LS content nor the added PVE zone(s), I just don’t think they’re any good, and the PVE in this game just isn’t very interesting nor challenging.

The only thing I’m interesting in is the new WVW and PVP maps, and those aren’t part of the expac.

The only thing in the expac I want is the new class and elite specs, which doesn’t seem worth $50 at this stage.

So yes, I would rather have a char slot included and no access at all to LS updates nor Maguuma.

Pre-purchasing already gives you beta access, so it’s not like there isn’t already a bonus to pre-purchasing.

Including a char slot in an expac that adds a class is just simple common sense. Not including one is being cheap and screwing your customers, simple as that.

Ricky.4706:

The reason I’m here is because anet is simply great at what they do, they are game masters, you will not find better game developers and artists. period.

so no matter what the deal, the quality is superior ….this is not saying they don’t have bugs …this is saying they know how to entertain. the rest are details on how to package that in a way everyone can support.

Having played computer games for 30+ years and been in the game industry as a developer for 2 years, I respectfully disagree. Not saying they’re bad, but the best? Not by a longshot. Their artists are pretty great though, i’ll give you that.

ArchieD.6972:

Anet handing out freebies left and right, and still you complain.

---

All Professions at 80 | http://tinyurl.com/oj4e9hr
1500+ Hrs Played | http://tinyurl.com/ppq4ksz
No Precursor | http://tinyurl.com/6lwv48m

The irony continues…

yep, the bare minimum

ArchieD.6972:

….the bundled character slots in the non standard editions are staying.

They’re adding an additional character slot on top of that for veteran players who prepurchase.

Please understand what you read before you make a fool of yourself.

The irony… re-read what I wrote, I’m only talking about std edition.

Jermoe Morrow.9501:

The important thing is that they listened to what we had to say, and did something to alleviate our concerns.

Not really, after release, existing players get waaay less value for their $50 compared to new players.

Plus, expansion adds a class, it ought to add a slot, simple as that. GW1 generally gave yu 2 free slots with every expansion.

Say what you like but this still doesn’t seem right to me.

of course. but where is the detailed info on what you get for $50? currently it’s a PVE zone , 1 class, and the elite specs, most of which haven’t even been announced. That’s it. That doesn’t seem like $50 of content to me at this point.

it’s pre-purchase only. they are still trying to kitten us.

The recent announcement by Anet states:

“For all players who registered the core Guild Wars 2® game prior to January 23, 2015 and who upgrade their account by prepurchasing and registering any Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns edition before Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns‘ launch, we will add one additional character slot to your Guild Wars 2 account. "

So even after this PR/brand disaster, you’re seriously going to restrict the bundled character slot to pre-purchases only? I have no words on how plain stupid this is…. I feel like I’m being kittened even more than before as now it seems like we’re being strongarmed into pre-purchasing while there’s still barely any detail for what appears to be a rather thin & slightly overpriced expansion (based on current info).

Why is char slot pre-purchase-only? Including a char slot in an expac that adds a new class FOR ALL existing customers is just plain common sense and treating your customers respectfully.

minbariguy.7504:

scerevisiae.1972:

Revyn.8961:

No pre-purchase, no free character slot.

i’m sure they wouldn’t be so stupid to restrict it to pre-purchase-only, else this will all start again, only even more virulently.

Well, they have restricted it to pre-purchase only, and most people seem pretty happy with it. I really don’t think this is going to blow up again.

it’s because i don’t think most people realise it’s pre-purchase only…

Khristophoros.7194:

A character slot should be included with HoT even if people buy it after it comes out. Only including it in the preorder is messed up.

The character slot is required to make HoT fully functional. The core game doesn’t even have enough slots for all core professions. At the very least you should add one with HoT for the new profession.

To me this feels like I’m being bullied into preordering. I would much prefer to wait until the game comes out and decide if it’s worth the price.

Pushing the preorder this hard makes it seem like you don’t have confidence in the quality of the product. If it’s a good product people will end up buying it after it comes out.

I sincerely doubt they would be so foolish as to restrict the bundled char slot to pre-purchase-only after what’s happened, that would be another huge PR/brand disaster.

Though in re-reading the announcement, it does make it sound like it’s pre-purchase-only… I think they need to clear that up right away before this all gets out of hand (again).

Revyn.8961:

No pre-purchase, no free character slot.

i’m sure they wouldn’t be so stupid to restrict it to pre-purchase-only, else this will all start again, only even more virulently.

Fernling.1729:

There was a big thread way before they announced the prepurchase asking for a slot to be included with the expansion. It wasn’t until after everything blew up(including massively, pc gamer etc) that they went back on it.
I’m not convinced they would have changed this if the freakout wasn’t as large. Even the worst companies know a thing or two about damage control.

Yep this. A lot of brand damage was caused, ostensibly because greed won the day.

It seems very obvious to me that an expac for a 3yo game that introduces a new class should come with a char slot, especially when GW1 expacs used to come with 2, and especially when the disparity between the new and existing player offerings was so huge.

There’s no sugar-coating that this was a massive kittenup from a marketing & brand POV, and really, a lot of this was foreseeable in players’ requests for char slots in previous forum posts from months ago.

It’s simple common sense amd only fair that an expansion that adds a class should include a character slot in order to use it, if said expansion is purchased as an upgrade.

Yep B2P model == once they get you to purchase, they stop giving a kitten.

Does it matter? It’s certainly newsworthy.

Not to mention it still doesn’t change that an expansion that adds a new class ought to come with an included char slot to use it. Especially when new players are getting a much better deal than existing players.

Not to mention it still doesn’t change that an expansion that adds a new class ought to come with an included char slot to use it. Especially when new players are getting a much better deal than existing players.

Balsa.3951:

mmmm sorry but I think gw2 is really a non grind game.

everything u grind for is something u dont really need to play the game.

Acended gear is the only grind factor I admit but what else?

um, kinda everything:

• you need to grind dungeons to get dungeon armour/weapons
• you need to grind events for karma
• you need to grind WVW for WVW rank
• you need to grind PVP for PVP rank
• you need to grind the world for world completion
• you need to grind for legendaries
  etc

not saying GW2 is a grindy game, it’s not, it’s very casual-friendly, but it’s a themepark game at the end of the day, and themepark games are only ever about grind. you only need to play a good sandbox game (eg: Eve, Archeage, Darkfall etc) to see how grindy all themepark games truly are.

I think it’s simpler than all that: an expac that adds a new class ought to come with a char slot included by default. that’s just common sense and basic respect for your customers.

imagine buying a new car and having to pay extra for the wheels?

course there’s also the deception of saying you need the core game for the expac, then selling the core game at a discount, then editing the FAQ to say core game not required for expac and bundling it….

Jongi.7612:

they dont have to just hand it over to you because you think you should get it.

and likewise, we don’t have to hand over our $$ to buy the expac if we think it’s shady/bad value.

webtoehobbit.4201:

Take a look at the comparison I made for the previous expansions and what was included in the base version of the game. In EVERY Guild Wars 1 game that introduced professions, they gave you one character slot per new profession added, so:

Factions: 2 new professions, 2 character slots included with base game
Nightfall: 2 new professions, 2 character slots included with base game
Eye of the North: 0 new professions, no character slot included with the base game.

Yep, they got greedy, and just as bad again, took their existing playerbase for granted by giving new players the base game + expac for the same price as an existing players can buy the expac.

It is only common sense that an expac that introduces a new class comes with a new character slot. Not bundling one is a a pretty low, cynical, & greedy move.

yep, $50 buys a whole lot of game(s) these days. $50 for a wafer thin expac with no char slots IMO is an insane ripoff.

call your bank and cancel the charge on your credit card if you’re serious.

Please stop with the apologist angle.

They very well knew they were kittening over their playerbase when they included the core game for free to new players and excluded char slots/benefits to existing players.

They also very well knew that selling as many units of the core game as possible through discounts while saying it would be required to play the expac, and then including the core game for free with the expansion and editing the FAQ would rort players AKA “bait and switch”.

Whether the relatively small amount of content is worth $50 is a separate issue and well worth discussing, but the deceitful tactics and dismissive attitude towards existing players is pretty much unequivocal.

that is, they are willingly trashing the community for a few extra $$$. They totally do deserve this. As you can see from the lack of concern, the management don’t even care.

Sylent.3165:

Everyone needs to stop arguing already and making a million posts flaming each other. It’s very very simple.

If you want it, you will buy it, enjoy it, and play it.

If you don’t want it, just don’t get it. simple as that no need to make a flame war. No one’s forcing you to get it.

Did I miss anything? Because this mess on the forms has got to stop

oh look, another person lecturing others on how to think and feel….

oi, it’s also about the money… expac is pretty kitten thin for $50… all you get for $50 is:

• a new class
• a new PVE zone
• guild halls

specialisations, WVW map and PVP game being rolled out before expac.

Jordo.5913:

50.00 for a B2P expansion is really reasonable, they are asking you for 50.00 to play what content they have created for the expac + LWS3 + LWS4 + any feature packs that come out after HoT.

the problem is value for money where the existing player base is getting shafted.

it’s reasonable if they’re making content that you want to play… but LS content does nothing for me, i don’t want to play it nor pay for it…. all i want is timely WVW and balance updates and we sure as kitten have NOT been getting those (key word there being “timely”).

not to mention they can’t really exclude people who don’t buy the expac from future content either, unless they want to sacrifice players.

Coulter.2315:

Again the extra char slot is £5 is it worth the damage of the Guild Wars name?

TBQFH, it’s Anet’s greed and casual dismissal of its existing playerbase that’s caused this PR disaster, not the players.

charging $50 for what appears to be a really thin expac doesn’t help either.

Coulter.2315:

If you could give an example of a Guild Wars product in the last 10 years that hasn’t been worth the box price I’ll stop. Since you won’t be able to THAT earned loyalty – good products consistantly (not some extra fluff for launch).

I have mixed feelings about whether GW2 was worth the $60 purchase price… the only part of the game I really liked was WVW, the PVE and LS is/was pretty disappointing and sPVP was a huge letdown (and still is).

The lack of attention to balancing unused and buggy skills & traits has also comfortably been the worst of any game i’ve played. Living Story updates, which weren’t very good anyway, basically sucked up all the resources and left WVW/PVP to rot.

No, once a contract is formed (through purchase) you can’t retrospectively change the terms of the contract unless the contract specifically & clearly states that it’s a contract term.

Even then, there are limits. If the value of the purchased goods/services is materially less than the original offer to the extent that the buyer would not have made the purchase otherwise, then you have solid grounds for a case under contract law, and/or existing “bait and switch” statutes/common law.