Guild Wars 2

Sagat.3285:

sebradle.7034:

Anet please release thief spec this Monday so this melodrama can end.

Wrong…it would just fuel the next one it’s a cycle of darkness.

In all seriousness it would be nice if we could focus more on base thief but even when the teaser pic is revealed I’m pretty sure they will not make it specific just to create last minute extra hype and we know ranger is last so that’s one good thing so far. Anyway Team Rifle!!

Oh your team rifle that means you actually care about thief how can you sleep at night you dirty kitten.

Anet please release thief spec this Monday so this melodrama can end.

Seabreeze.8437:

Thank you, sebradle, for emphasizing what I’ve been trying to say all along.

Also yolo, my favorite ninja turtle is Donatello. Just letting you know so you can use that fun fact against me.

Dang that reminds me I totally forgot to post a ninja in my post.

Serious Thought.5394:

I probably spelled that wrong, but whatevs. What niche is it going to fill now? Support?

Daggers are your quick bursty (main and off, while d/d 3 is…uh…in the wrong place)
Sword is your evasion
Pistol main is your condi
Pistol off is your control

Genuinely curious. I personally would love an execution in reverse weapon (sword offhand, does more damage more hp target has. synergy with HS which does more for more missing), but everyone is set on staff and I’m hearing that we already have datamined confirmation (which I can never find). Whaddya guys think it’ll do? I have a feeling its gonna be boon spammy support.

I honestly don’t know what it will do cause the common trope for staffs is jumpy dodgy acrobat. I think that sounds fun but I don’t know how much that would widen our current options.

I’m hoping that it is more shadow magic based with both mid range and melee options in the kit personally. Similar to guardian sword in the aspect that you can play from multiple ranges.

yolo for someone who said in this thread

yolo swaggins.2570:

Instead of putting words in people’s mouths, you could be using that effort and time to making staff look more appealing. less redundant.

Your now generalizing everyone in this thread and saying that are opinions are just our bias to role play as Ryu Hayabusa(Have no clue who this is even after I googled it). Please don’t tell me why I want staff or why anyone else here wants staff.

Second you say we are leaving out things that would hurt our proof yet you just conveniently left out that every thief speculation art backdrop has the same color scheme as the staff picture.

red/grey/white/black

Acrobatics: http://i.imgur.com/amlUO41.png
Crit Strikes: http://i.imgur.com/QbDYnLc.png
Deadly Arts: http://i.imgur.com/rNAy4Jb.png
Shadow Arts: http://i.imgur.com/b4Hfris.png
Trickery: http://i.imgur.com/zk4lkuO.png

Deceptions: http://i.imgur.com/pHZ9PuG.png
Signets: http://i.imgur.com/9wPl46R.png
Traps: http://i.imgur.com/CuEYVaK.png
Tricks: http://i.imgur.com/wze76ND.png
Venoms: http://i.imgur.com/a6mgWWL.png

Staff Art: http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png

Also these now used art pieces were all datamined at the same time on the 23rd.

Along with the revenant spec artwork which if you look has way more liberties with color palettes not just red/black/and shades

Devastation: http://i.imgur.com/mSEmZGs.png
Salvation: http://i.imgur.com/320RU8r.png
Corruption: http://i.imgur.com/PYyAIhG.png
Retribution: http://i.imgur.com/ZOjtBPG.png
Invocation: http://i.imgur.com/nxkKGc0.png
Herald/Glint Line: http://i.imgur.com/6FW9xD2.png

Jallis: http://i.imgur.com/TSwmeUt.png
Mallyx: http://i.imgur.com/ixKE9AC.png
Ventari: http://i.imgur.com/zJVdFJI.png
Shiro: http://i.imgur.com/nAs2Oge.png

So I don’t think that artwork goes with Revenant it could fit I will definitely give you that.

What else are you conveniently leaving out…
That all these things were data mined together on the 23rd and have been 100% accurate.

What has been accurate up to this point from that datamine let us see. We have here
The Revenant Devastation and Shiro artwork before it was revealed on the week of Jul 17
http://i.imgur.com/mSEmZGs.png
http://i.imgur.com/nAs2Oge.png

The Herald/Glint artwork before it was revealed this week
http://i.imgur.com/6FW9xD2.png
the Herald’s shield
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-ascended-shield.jpg

The tempest artwork before tempest was revealed on the week of Jul 24th.
http://i.imgur.com/AoGISvd.png
The tempest’s warhorn
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-ascended-warhorn.jpg

All these nice things that were confirmed for elite specs prior to jun 23rd
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-ascended-greatsword.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-ascended-longbow.jpg
http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-engineer-helmet.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/I50e1iB.png
http://imgur.com/Hgxwwxv
http://imgur.com/qrWWTTY

All from that same data mine on the 23rd.

You so conveniently like to leave out that the evidence we are pulling from has been very accurate up to this point. So no the existence of the picture is not proof the credibility (100% accuracy so far) of the data mine gives the picture and model more credibility.

DISCLAIMER! BECAUSE I KNOW YOU ARE GONNA SAY THAT I THINK WE ARE 100% GUARANTEED TO GET STAFF BECAUSE I POSTED THIS I AM GONNA MAKE THIS REALLY BIG. THIS IS ALL SPECULATION THIEF STAFF IS NO WAY CONFIRMED I AM NOT ARENA NET. THE EVIDENCE JUST POINTS TO THIEF GETTING STAFF.

Edit: Sorry for the caps not trying to be mean just trying to get my point across.

supa suop.8026:

Seabreeze.8437:

Advent.6193:

I could really get behind a Whip.

That… could be interpreted very differently than what you are implying, lol.

Well it does seem like there are quite a few people misbehaving on this thread.

Can we get dual whips?

yolo swaggins.2570:

sebradle.7034:

You have zero clues of how game development works if you think that anet scrapped an entire rifle concept in the last month in favor of staff because of hype on their game forums.

EDIT: kitten I think I took the bait again.

lol You walked into your own trap. Flipping your entire argument around just to discredit me. Just lol

I think I am done here.

Omg your ego. I meant I took the bait of trying to reason with you because talking to you is like talking to a wall.

Once again let me reiterate if you think anet changed their thief concept in the past month because of hype over staff on this forum in the past month your either ignorant or facetious.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Shadow.1345:

yolo swaggins.2570:

Shadow.1345:

This thread has pretty much changed to an argument between yolo and sebradle which is pretty much just sebradle saying “evidence points to staff” and yolo responding by throwing himself down on the ground in the middle of the aisle and throwing a temper tantrum. Can we just get a mod to close this?

EDIT: @yolo The dev team and the use of a melee staff are not bound by your imagination and what has been posted. It’s a videogame set in a high fantasy realm, it has the capacity to do anything the dev team makes it do.

Then staff is bound to suck and players are going to continue to stick with d/p SB. Maybe the spec traits would work enough for thieves to use it. But it doesn’t change the fact that staffers want to look cool over making the profession better. So if we get melee staff and it ends up how staffers wanted it, it has a high chance of turning out exactly how I said it would. And when it does, I will remind you guys so the same crap doesn’t repeat itself (hopefully).

I think you let your liason position in TEEF go to your head because nothing we say or do is going to make ANet decide what to do with their elite spec decision for Thief. You’re acting like we are making ANet make their decision yet nobody was talking about melee staff until the datamined picture came out. But go ahead and remind us all you want but it’s not like you really did anything to contribute for good or ill on the design of the thief.

Hype, or the lack thereof, has made anet reconsider things. An exodus has made anet attempt a 180 in how they handle a certain profession. So assuming all this melee staff hype affects anet’s decisions, we all know who to look at and why for not encouraging anet to do better.

You have zero clues of how game development works if you think that anet scrapped an entire rifle concept in the last month in favor of staff because of hype on their game forums.

EDIT: kitten I think I took the bait again.

Someday I wish to be like this fine gentleman photographed here. But of course in the virtual world of Tyria.

@Gray don’t try to reason with him his mind is made up already. We must now embrace his bias of us and start posting pictures of ninjas and kungfu masters.

Hexalot.8194:

Seabreeze.8437:

Advent.6193:

I could really get behind a Whip.

That… could be interpreted very differently than what you are implying, lol.

LOLOLOLOL !!

This thread has everything! eats popcorn

Need more evil spooky shrieking

IDICERI.4268:

Need mods to close this thread. This is getting quite toxic. There’s too much hate for too many silly reasons. Name calling someone over their preference in a “fantasy” game is fatuous. Someone inform the mods! THE RED CAPES ARE COMING! THE RED CAPES ARE COMING!

Yeah dude this is a dumb argument don’t even know why I posted my thoughts. Can’t wait for thief reveal day.

EDIT: also yolo you just responded to seabreeze saying

Seabreeze.8437:

^ It’s funny how you are saying I’m being ironic when I (as well as many other people) have repeatedly stated that we are well aware that nothing is certain until Anet makes it so. You seriously keep talking like we are touting around melee staff with 100% certainty when we know it’s NOT 100%. It’s getting ridiculous at this point.

with

yolo swaggins.2570:

Just because you’ve stated that, doesn’t make your other arguments any more valid. You are right that there is no telling what anet’s plans are. You are wrong in thinking that its absolutely staff.

um… ok he says that staff is nowhere confirmed and you respond with saying that he thinks we are absolutely getting staff.

Sagat.3285:

I’m pretty sure they are trying to make d/d the condition melee despite it’s hybrid nature they will try for a long time though and p/p is hybrid-ish also not sure how a melee staff would inflict bleeding. Sure our speculations are not solid but Team Rifle’s bullets are.

Staff could inflict confusion or torment. Revenant mace is a condition spec that has zero bleeds just torment and burns. Staff could even inflict burns if they did go with a ninja theme elite spec. Point is anything could happen its game design.

@yolo swaggins

1. Get off your high horse. Characterizing everyone that is pro staff as narutards as a personal attack does nothing for your argument and is just a petty insult.

2. You keep saying staff would either be op or redundant because of our current melee options. Ok… please tell me how rifle would not be op or redundant because of our current ranged options.

P/P, if rifle does more dps then P/P it is op and redundant, if rifle does less dps then P/P it will most likely go unused in favor of shortbow utility and be unused

P/D if rifle is better at kiting then P/D it is op

So, in the world we get rifle it is either a 1200 range monster that pushes out everything besides shortbow because of shortbow utility. Or it is meh and people will just use shortbow or P/D for kite ability.

Now this is all bullkitten because it is an over generalization of kits just like you overgeneralize where staff could be placed in our current weapon set.

3. We have a giant opening of a condition melee option that staff could fill cause personally leaping death blossom spam does nothing for me. There that is how staff is not redundant.

4. Again fan made kits are not evidence that we are getting rifle. Last I check who ever posted a rifle kit is not a anet developer. Also you have no proof that anet is going to take from the fan made kit it a baseless claim.

5. You are wrong the model and the staff in the picture are the same exact staff and are not just more or less resembling each other.

Here let me walk you through it starting at the top of the staff

http://dulfy.net/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/gw2-staff.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
Model: We have a golden metal cylinder at the top of the staff with three rings.
Art: Same cylinder showing the same ring at the bottom of the cylinder in the model

Model: piece of wood with design
Art: piece of wood with design

Model: metal ring
Art: metal ring

Model: wood with a metal ring screwed into it and tassel comes off this ring
Art: wood with a metal ring screwed into it and tassel comes off this ring

Model: metal ring
Art: metal ring

Model: long piece of wood with design
Art: long piece of wood with design

Model: two metal rings with a piece of wood in the middle
Art: two metal rings with a piece of wood in the middle

Model: piece of wood continues
Art: piece of wood continues

If you still think they are not the same staff you need to get your eyes checked or a mental examination.

6: The Nile is not only a river in Africa

EDIT:

7: Saying we have no foundation for our claims just proves to me that you don’t read anyone’s post because including my own lengthy post in this thread. There is two other’s post that say this.

Every model and art work that was datamined from the June 23rd patch has now been confirmed.

This includes, the tempest (model/artwork), reaper(model/artwork), dragonhunter (model/artwork), chronomancer (model/artwork), revenant (model/artwork). The only one not confirmed is that staff model/artwork you like to say is our only evidence. Your only evidence is the bs people on this forum people were talking about early in this year when no one had any information besides the HoT release trailer. That is all just baseless speculation with no evidence.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Just because a picture and a model was part of a datamine != staff skills exist. This is the same kind of deductive reasoning that has been used since thief staff became a thing.

Concept art is posted > OMG STAFF CONFIRMED

Entirely new class gets staff as a base weapon > OMG MULTIPLE CLASSES GETTING SAME WEAPON > OMG STAFF CONFIRMED

Its borderline kittened.

Did I say staff was confirmed I said its highly likely based on what we know. That is deductive reasoning bro formulating a hypothesis and defending it with available facts. Then you can come to some conclusion. My current conclusion is that it is highly likely we will get staff not guaranteed (BECAUSE IT IS NOT CONFIRMED).

Your the one not using a deductive approach cause you wanna stick your fingers in your ear and pretend like there is no available information, you would rather just play devil’s advocate and just say that it could not happen. Well no duh everyone here understands that nothing is final until it is CONFIRMED. That is why we are speculating and not writing Anet’s thief elite spec reveal blog post for them.

Here is what we know:

On the June 23rd patch:

A bunch of elite spec weapon models and art pieces believed to be elite spec backdrops were datamined.

http://dulfy.net/2015/06/24/gw2-upcoming-items-from-june-23-patch/
http://imgur.com/a/cIOW3

these models/art pieces include

- a warhorn, now confirmed to be tempest’s warhorn
- tempest elite spec artwork now confirmed was used in beta weekend

- dragonhunter’s bow confirmed in the dragonhunter’s reveal video
- dragonhunter’s backdrop used in the beta weekend

- a shield, now confirmed to go with the revenant’s elite spec
- an art piece of Glint, most likely used for revenants elite spec (Not confirmed)

- reaper’s greatsword confirmed in the reaper’s release video and artwork
- reaper’s elite spec artwork used in the beta weekend

- chronomancer’s shoulder pieces, confirmed in the chronomancer release art
- chronomancer art piece used in the beta weekend

- engineer’s elite spec head piece, confirmed in HoT reveal trailer
- a blank art piece with the words forge assumed to be place holder for engineer elite spec window (not confirmed)

- a blank art piece with the words berserker assumed to be place holder for warrior elite spec window (not confirmed)

- an art piece of a ninja like character holding a staff
- an ingame model of the same staff

So how does this help confirm my hypothesis that it is LIKELY we will get staff NOT CONFIRMED that we will get staff.

We have a bunch of ingame model’s of weapons/armor pieces that have all now been confirmed to belong to elite specs datamined from the same patch. Each one of these models has an art piece that belongs to it that are also confirmed to belong to the elite spec of its appropriate profession.

The only model not confirmed yet is the staff that goes along with an art piece of a ninja carrying a staff. So it is highly likely this pattern will hold out and we are getting staff. But like you said for the fiftieth time this could all change like those tempest “sword” skills (they were actually just dagger skill being used as placeholder for sword skills).

BlazeQ.1095:

Kidel.2057:

I find every single Shiro skill useful in pve (expecially Riposting Shadows and Phase Traversal, LOL, are we kidding? The first is a stun breaker and the other one is a leap). The only skill I find useless among all the skills we have is Jalis taunt, but only because it costs too much.

And if you don’t find them useful (lol) then just swap Shiro with another legend. We have )soon) 5 of them, I’m sure you’ll find something you like. Just as with utility skills.

Found a “Situation” where this came in handy in WvW. Enemy player was rushing for the door, got it off just before he hit the portal and he turned to attack… Needless to say he didn’t make it inside.

Skill is very situational as the game stands right now however.

Jalis taunt felt really strong everytime I used it. Thing is I would never use it because it cost 50 energy. So you can’t really ever use it from out of combat because your now sitting at 0 energy. Also if your in combat you can not really use it till you get around 80+ energy.

yolo swaggins.2570:

sebradle.7034:

So forum discussion counts as evidence because people had these discussions before any actual evidence came out in the form of actual data-mined art assets. So far every art asset mined from the same batch has now shown up as elite spec in-game artwork. Also two of the multiple mined elite spec weapon models the war horn and now shield are elite spec weapon models. (Both were mined from the same data-mine batch as the thief staff along with all the art works that are not utilized in game for elite specs.)

So unless anet wanted to throw thief on the back burner and make a bunch of changes which I don’t think is highly likely in game development seeing as how they are time crunched as it is. Staff is highly guaranteed now obviously could still not happen but anet would have to have gone back to the drawing boards for it to not be.

What makes you think the staff skills exist in the first place?

Wait isn’t that right there in my post. Hello… is this thing on.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Hexalot.8194:

yolo swaggins.2570:

This doesn’t mean anything.

Nonsense… it takes away the (widely held) belief that staff was out for Thieves because no two elites have gotten the same weapon previously. Now staff is definitely back in play.

It is anything but a widely held belief. The staff hype is a recent phenomenon whose only form of evidence ONE picture and ONE model. Rifle has been around long before, since right after the announcement anet was planning on adding new weapons to the professions. There are decent topics about it, speculation based off of anets track record and the fact that rifle gave things thieves did not have. When anet made that official, the first thing people thought thieves were going to get was rifle. The only reason why staff is a big competitor now is because the players who want it have hyped it very hard and constantly assumed staff based on unrelated data. Its annoying.

Staff was always in play, but you guys still have a picture and a model that could easily be discarded. Kinda like those few sword skills for tempest.

So forum discussion counts as evidence because people had these discussions before any actual evidence came out in the form of actual data-mined art assets. So far every art asset mined from the same batch has now shown up as elite spec in-game artwork. Also two of the multiple mined elite spec weapon models the war horn and now shield are elite spec weapon models. (Both were mined from the same data-mine batch as the thief staff along with all the art works that are not utilized in game for elite specs.)

So unless anet wanted to throw thief on the back burner and make a bunch of changes which I don’t think is highly likely in game development seeing as how they are time crunched as it is. Staff is highly guaranteed now obviously could still not happen but anet would have to have gone back to the drawing boards for it to not be.

Bhawb.7408:

Blaine Tog.8304:

Bhawb.7408:

2 of the shouts need to be changed heavily, I’d really like to see Rise removed and changed into something like “You Can’t Kill Me!” (insert better shout name here)

How about, “I Am Become Death!”?

Not bad. I tend to leave serious names to other people, I’m only good with puns.

An invuln shout would be awesome. No reason not to give us one seeing how endure pain and signet of stone exist. Thing is would you get more block/invuln time for each enemy struck?

Reaper just needs quality of life fixes. For instance just having great sword 5 be more reliable would do wonders.

Skill 3 needs an evade more then damage. Omnislash like skills are suppose to be beneficial against solo targets and weaker against multiple it gives them counter play. But a little damage boost would be welcome.

Staff has a lot of synergy with sword. You get a good damaging knock back, a block, condition removal just by swapping.

Silverkey.2078:

I actually didn’t do it myself because I didn’t try to estimate the cast time of gravedigger.

Dagger AA is 2.8 coef in 2.1 s, so 1.33 coef/s.
Currently gravedigger is 2.0 coef. The tooltip activation is 1.25 which would make 1.6 coef/s but it seems the after cast is nearly 0.5s which brings it down to 1.15 coef/s.

Since GS has about 10% higher weapon strength, this makes 1,26 “effective coef”/s. Still below dagger.

Also worth noting is that while using a dagger, you have often a warhorn which adds some DPS, while there is no higher DPS skill on the GS…

Thanks. Also I feel like swiftness/cripple from the warhorn gives d/w more stickiness than great sword as well. What i want is gravedigger to be similar to heart seeker just a heavy hitting execute would be awesome with reaper shroud 5 as well.

Silverkey.2078:

@sebradle
Yes but the non-execute dagger executes better than GS since the damage of GS (even gravedigger) is lower than dagger (not by much).

I think the GS is meant as a more than 2 enemies weapon. It has scalable LF generation, many 5-enemies skills etc… And chill IS punishing.

I still feel that gravedigger should at least out-DPS dagger AA since it is only spammable for execute (and not even fully spammable any longer it seems)

Can you show me the math that dagger out damages gravedigger spam?

I don’t feel like greatsword is meant to be a dps weapon. I think they are trying to give it a more execute type gameplay and everything on the kit is meant to give utility to bring others into our execute range.

Wouldn’t cast too much judgement yet Grouch didn’t seem like he knew what he was doing and went full glass cannon on top of that.

Might be a dragoon or dragon knight because of glint. But I think the fact that we already have Dragon Hunter makes that unlikely.

Tyr.6097:

I simply don’t see any room for staffs, because everything that would be useful is already brought by our current weapon sets.

I completely agree that with dagger and sword we really don’t need staff and rifle would open up more variety for thief at the moment. But that doesn’t mean that a melee staff play-style should be excluded because there is more then one way to skin a cat. Just like there is more then one way to provide a melee play-style.

Tyr.6097:

sebradle.7034:

Look at the reaper for instance it no where near fixes the necromancer’s major issues but provides a new play style.

Necro has limited access on serious 3 – 5 target cleave aoe weapon wise.

If you think that giving necro’s another power weapon fixed their major issues you don’t play much necro. When I play necro 100% of the time I have dagger/warhorn equipped. The biggest gripes with necro’s are unreliable stab application, weak condition damge/control (for what the master of conditions should have), horrible minion ai. Reaper does not address a single of those things.

You are all in here complaining that staff is just redundant because we already have dagger. Well guess what they just gave greatsword to necro fits the same exact role as dagger/warhorn (they will be competing against each no arguing there) but the two are played in a different style. Even warrior has the same issue with main hand axe vs greatsword competing against one another.

edit: Also I think its hilarious that you cherry picked my post to disagree on that one sentence which wasn’t even the main point of my post.

Everyone here does know that elite specs are suppose to provide variety and not be magic class fixing band-aids. Look at the reaper for instance it no where near fixes the necromancer’s major issues but provides a new play style. If you wanna specialize in a slow walking monstrosity you should spec in reaper.

If we so badly need a rifle to fix our class then I guess the second elite spec released after the rifle elite spec is just gonna be absolutely trash and unused. Elite specs are not band-aid’s you are specializing in a new play-style hence the new profession icons we are gonna get with each elite specialization.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Filling roles we lack in is better than adding onto what we already have so the thief can expand their roles in combat.

Well according to a lot people around here the only role we need to fill is our 1200 range need. I guess every thief elite spec afterwards is gonna have to be redundant.

Kocoff.7582:

This picture seems pretty serious to me.

http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png

Opinions?

Random.4691:

Llort.9267:

The staff doesn’t suit the thief class at all, as he ceases to be the thief/assassin type class at all. Martial arts monk is not a ninja, as some people seem to believe. Monks don’t rely on stealth. As for ninjas, their main weapon was katana, which is a sword, daggers, shortbows, and a bunch of throwing weapons. These are basically all the weapons that the GW2 thief can use to this point. Pistols would be exception, but it seems OK to have a ninja with a pistol in a game with steampank elements. The only suitable new weapon for the ninja among the existing ones would be a torch, as ninjas very often were used for sabotage. That and kits with throwing knives and granades would be the better choice over the staff, in my opinion. The only problem is that current thief is pretty much a ninja already.

As for the rifle, that makes the thief more of a secret agent class, that uses range weapon to kill an enemy from afar, probably has some tricks to disorient and fool them beforehand, and uses stealth to escape if needed. And this would also give the thieves what they lack – more range.

I hope it’s either one of those two, especially as both rifle and torch are two most underused weapons in the game.

You realize that it is kind of the point to make the thief not a thief with the specialization ?

I think a lot of people miss that point about elite specs. Also it’s so interesting to see that we have so many ninja historians on these forums.

I think we are all just expecting too much from an mmo storyline I’m gonna go read a book.

Genesis.8572:

I get your point, but it’s more than you would think: the Homeric Epics, the Greek tragedies, A Thousand and One Nights, and the entire genre of Arthurian Romance.

With the exception of A Thousand and One Nights which is more of a love story with epics built into because its a frame story. I feel like most of the romances in those stories are just plot points that drive the story forward. Mostly because the main characters are male and the women act as temptations or rewards or whatever you would like. I think the only equivalent of that in the GW2 story so far is Belinda’s death which bring Kass and Marjory closer together. I think things like that should be the focus of their relationship but most of the time their relationship feels more like I’m in a romcom to me then a fantasy story.

Edit: Also there is a reason no one gives Caithe and Faolain’s relationship the same grief as Majory and Kass. That is because there is actually conflict and temptation in that relationship so it feels more real and interesting. On the other hand like I said the only conflict in Kass and Marj’s relationship has been Belinda’s death and they are handling it like two people who didn’t just see all of Lion’s Arch leveled to the ground. Also Kass’s valley girl personality is annoying.

Kaleban.9834:

Given the amount of money that goes into games like these, you’d THINK they could get writers who can come up with less hackneyed cliche ridden characters.

I’m thinking of games like Baldur’s Gate, for NPCs, or games in the vein of the entire Sierra catalog (King’s Quest, Quest for Glory, etc.) for inspiration. Heck, hire Lori and Corey Cole as character consultants.

As for Marjory and Kasmeer, is there an HR department in anyone’s guild? So we can lodge a sexual harassment complaint? Its nothing to do with their same sex relationship, its a problem with having 99.99% of their dialogue being 50 Shades of Twilight harlequin romance. It’d be equally as bad if I had to listen to Logan go on about the Queen, Romeo and Juliet style.

Yeah it has nothing to do with it being same sex. For example Guild Wars Nightfall was a great story you know what was the worse scene in that entire campaign. The scene where Tahlkora confesses her love to Koss and he has to turn her down. It was cringe worthy and felt entirely misplaced in the epic of killing a god.

The story telling in the guild wars franchise went from the stuff we had in factions and nightfall where we know that Mhenlo has a thing for Cynn and Melonni and Koss have a thing to. But those wernt even secondary to the story they were just added tidbits to the characters. The stories were focused on killing Shiro and Abbadon. But now this story we have… sorry we cant take down this Elder Dragon yet because we have to get our hormones under control.

I kind of understand that the relationship between Kass and Marj are suppose to add breadth to their characters. But their relationship is the dominating characteristic of their characters. Also, Lets be honest how many great fantasy epics have the main character’s love relationship at the center of the story telling.

This is how I feel about DE 2.0

Braham: Comes off as the token dumb character who your just suppose to love because he makes a fool of himself. We are suppose to love him because he didn’t have a relationship with his mom or he broke his leg. All these makes up for him being just the blockhead of the group.

Rox: Is just wallpaper/torch carrier in season 2 and doesn’t do much for the group.

Marjory and Kasmeer: Are basically one person because their relationship dominates nearly every scene they are in and that is why a lot of people get a very high school like and empty feeling from their relationship.

Also sometimes I wonder does Marjory and Kasmeer even have a paragraph of dialogue with anyone else in DE2.0? Exaggerating here but I never feel like they ever interact with the others in DE2.0. Most of the time they just ask you how Rox, Taimi, or Braham are doing like they are just friends of a friend (in this case you).

Also when it comes to these characters backstories being interesting or compelling that’s great and all but they did the same thing with Destiny Edge. They create compelling backstories for all their characters and then when the player interacts with them those interactions comes off flat. Backstory is great and all but we are not playing these character’s backstories we are creating stories with them.

Taimi: Didn’t include her because I like her character. I like her character because her personality is written with passion and she has faults (young and naive). Funny thing is I like Taimi’s character before I even realized she is another token character ( the disabled person) because I didn’t realize that she had a limp until she ran away into the desert. Goes to show that if you give your characters personality people will like them beyond what you put on their id card (male, charr, prodigy, meat head, disabled).

Death blossom needs to be changed from its weird limbo state of being a condition skill on a power spec to just being a reliable evade.

Need to stop making staff vs rifle threads and start presenting sacrifices so anet will present us with a thief elite reveal on monday.

Genesis.8572:

The people who have the idea that ninjas are not associated with bo staffs clearly never grew up watching Ninja Turtles.

Also the fact that they are ignoring that the bo staff is ubiquitous among nearly all eastern martial arts.

stof.9341:

OH sword will not happen because D/S and P/S make no sense.

But aren’t thieves the ambidextrous class could make some sense if the dual skills for d/s and p/s really tie the two weapons together.

Tyr.6097:

penelopehannibal.8947:

Tyr.6097:

pepper.6179:

sebradle.7034:

We should just start a thread on why we all really just want off hand sword plox. Right everyone?

why not focus!

Because thiefs are far away from magic?

Yeah, going into complete invisibility and shadow-stepping is not magical at all!

Mechanics to adapt the nature of a class to simulate a hidden killer in a fast paced game is everything but a dedicated magic school.

In guild wars 1 Lyssa was the patron god of both mesmers and assassins. That is why assassins could uses hexes. So they use magic also it was always my understanding that shadow stepping involved traveling through the mists.

penelopehannibal.8947:

Tyr.6097:

pepper.6179:

sebradle.7034:

We should just start a thread on why we all really just want off hand sword plox. Right everyone?

why not focus!

Because thiefs are far away from magic?

Yeah, going into complete invisibility and shadow-stepping is not magical at all!

Shadow bending elite spec with off hand focus would be awesome just saying.

What if rise summoned a new more reaper specific minion (maybe small shadow fiends). Minion could have on hit chill or a small chill nova on death.

pepper.6179:

sebradle.7034:

We should just start a thread on why we all really just want off hand sword plox. Right everyone?

why not focus!

You have a good point there, but did you do the math?

We should just start a thread on why we all really just want off hand sword plox. Right everyone?

tazzannl.5016:

well i personally feel that we shouldn’t have a repeat on weapons i at least want it to be balanced so each profession has at least a fighting chance against the most tankiest of players on their professions but we have no official (meaning reveal because like with speculation with the ele having sword a few weeks back being changed to warhorn because of datamining purposes"loling at that i may add haha") proof to back: thief, warrior, engi up so data mining doesn’t always prove to be a most valuable source but only time will tell but again i personally don’t want to see repeated weapon reveals….it just doesn’t appeal to me, i’m sorry if this debouches some of you into raging at me but that’s my pure thoughts on this discussion

That is fine I can see why people want there to be a unique weapon for each profession it adds a coolness factor to it. I don’t know if this will help but just think that if they do release multiple elite specs down the line there is bound to be overlap (especially with warrior having so few options).

Ardid.7203:

sebradle.7034:

Nike.2631:

Zero Day.2594:

They never said that weapon repetition is on or off the table.

And why would they? Feeding somebody’s OCD craving for symmetry that doesn’t actually generate benefit for the game is just shooting yourself in the foot as a game designer.

This so much here. How to not design give your self nonsensical limitations that end up shoehorning your designs. If they have a cohesive well designed theme for thieves built around staff why would any designer limit themselves because another elite specialization for another profession is getting staff as well. Really does not make any sense.

Sorry to derail the thread, but, as a designer, I have to say one of our main “tool of the trade” is just that: limitations. The best designs grow from dry functions that need to be covered by art and usability to become great experiences. The blank page, without any hint or requirement to fulfill, usually leads to repeated and boring cliché. Of course, rules are to be broken… but not often. The best designers work with rules, follow them, twist them and break them ONLY in the most precise and precious moments.

Didnt say not to have limits and rules when designing. Of course you should because it gives what ever your designing structure and cohesiveness.

I said nonsensical limitations: like what we are talking about here limiting weapon choices so two classes don’t overlap weapons. Honestly the only thing I can see as a design benefit of that is it gives a level of uniqueness to each class. That uniqueness is great and all but in a game that broke the mold on weapon choices by giving each profession a multitude of different weapons that are used in a variety of ways do you think that uniqueness is high on anet’s design philosophy (set of rules)?

I mean if anet did not break that rule we would be where every other mmo is with each profession stuck with a single weapon choice in their token archetype. So all I’m saying is limiting who gets what weapon by having each profession get a unique weapon isn’t a design choice but ocd. What weapon choice an elite specialization gets should be determined by how it fits within the the archetype and over concept of that elite specialization and not whether ranger or warrior or engi has the same weapon used on their elite spec.

TLDR: Never said not to have rules you always have to start with some structure obviously.

Your not talking to a wall you are just having difficulties getting that other people have different preferences then you. That is why it does not stick imagine that. I mean do you see anyone here that wants staff going around saying that the thought of rifle thief fills with them with disgust lol.