Guild Wars 2

1. Staff – Spin to win weapon
2. Off Hand Sword – I just wanna dual wield with a power set.
3. Change Steal into a Ranged Tether that either
Immobilizes and adds stacks of vuln to a target after a duration.
or
Can be reactivated to pull you and the target toward each other meeting half way.
EDIT: For improv they could always make it so in the new elite spec you always “steal” the same new item/skill when you use your new F1. Could be dashes, stealth fields in your F2 slot.
4. The kits thing I don’t know how believable it is that we would get 6 sets of kits seems pretty unbelievable. Think we could get physical utilities could have dashes/evades sense dashing is a physical act.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Barab.9016:

Morv.9837:

While I would rather have Staff over Rifle thematically, I feel it would be odd for 2 of the 3 medium armor classes to get the same elite weapon (melee staff).

No, why would it ? Is there some rule that says multiple classes can not get the same elite weapon ? We all know the weapon abilities are going to be vastly different per class.

This is before we learn that the assumed Hammer Engineer elite spec is, in fact, also a melee Staff set, and that what everyone assumed was a hammer in the trailer is, in fact, an unusual Staff skin introduced specifically for the new spec. With the Staff, the Engineer elite spec will be able to provide magical healing in the form of scattered energy gears to its allies utilizing its newfound connection to the depths of the earth and the wells of magical energy hidden there.

And that the Warrior elite spec is also going to be using melee staff, with a skin designed to look something like a two-handed torch. How it ‘vastly differs’ from the Hammer is something only ArenaNet can tell us, but I imagine it’ll work by smashing healing into the faces of your allies, and possibly lighting their hair on fire to grant them Regeneration through the cleansing blue flames.

The Thief’s staff is actually a melee weapon whose abilities center on sneaky bursts of shadowy energy scattered by its attacks, which can provide healing to allies who walk over them. It’s their new support weapon that everybody’s* wanted Thieves to have. The Druid’s staff differs from all of those in that while it is a melee weapon, it generates special glowing flowers instead – walking over these flowers grants natural healing to allies.

…have I made my point yet? if you give the new class and three of the specializations within the new expansion the same ‘melee Staff’ elite spec, then that option gets old, tired, and overexposed. Everybody is running around bonking people upside the head with wizard sticks, and the concept of ‘melee staff’ gets diluted and turned into a joke.

Well, more of a joke than the Rev’s melee staff already is. Lord this thread depresses the hell out of me. Why do I keep showing up here, again?

Yeah your point is to argue with hyperbole good job.

Who here is speculating that warrior, engi, thief, and ranger are getting staff? Noone. That is so outlandish as a counter point lol.

I really don’t get your point cause it isn’t grounded in reality where we don’t know anything about warrior weapon, engineer IS getting a confirmed hammer, druid IS confirmed to get staff, and we have some evidence that thief MIGHT get staff.

The bottom bar on your spec window is bordered in gold. This area I am assuming is the only area you can lock in elite specs. Don’t think you will be able to lock in multiple elite specs seeing how each changes the profession mechanic.

Nike.2631:

Zero Day.2594:

They never said that weapon repetition is on or off the table.

And why would they? Feeding somebody’s OCD craving for symmetry that doesn’t actually generate benefit for the game is just shooting yourself in the foot as a game designer.

This so much here. How to not design give your self nonsensical limitations that end up shoehorning your designs. If they have a cohesive well designed theme for thieves built around staff why would any designer limit themselves because another elite specialization for another profession is getting staff as well. Really does not make any sense.

I don’t even understand what archetype tempest is suppose to fill with most of its skills. The skills seems like just a hodgepodge of skills thrown together.

Reaper gets a scythe, whirls, and soul chilling screams
Chronomancer controls time with every ability
Dragonhunter makes constructs of light

What is the tempest suppose to do call storms right?
For me very few of the tempest abilities fill this niche and I think the elite skill is the largest offender here.

You know I was just thinking the most damaging thing against this http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png picture is that the guy is in full sneak-thief. So there is no elite spec armor piece on him. The only thing that could be it is the gloves but they are too heavily stylized to really tell.

Linken.6345:

oh that staff wielding picture you found could be a revenant, do revenant wield a staff oh yes they do

sebradle i guess next your going to say that the one sporting a hammer and drones can be a warrior

Sneak thief armor is medium armor, Revenant is heavy armor.

That Engineer with a hammer was clearly advertised as an elite spec in an Elite Spec portion of the trailer.

Also if this is the best you can come up with there is really no point in arguing with you any further cause this is some pretty weak kitten your coming up with. Its like you love to ignore context in order to to back up your claim.

Look up inductive reasoning, all this is just speculation. Thief staff is not a certainty neither is Thief rifle. The pro-staff guys just have more evidence to back our claims. But the way you talk thief rifle is a certainty.

Hate to break it to you if we get staff your gonna have to live with it. Like Christ if we get rifle I am not gonna throw a hissy fit. I am gonna play the elite spec whether we get rifle or staff cause I like the thief archetype no matter what.

Linken.6345:

sebradle.7034:

CodeHavoc.7926:

1) Data mined info is not gospel, Anet can change anything at anytime. (As seen with tempest)
2) Teef maybe getting rifle seems more themed with an infiltration type class.

What seems to more thief themed is entirely your opinion and not gospel.

All most people in the pro-staff crowd are saying is that there is more concrete (data-mined) evidence that supports thief getting staff while there is zero actual evidence that shows thief will get rifle. All the pro-rifle crowd can conjure up is their opinions on what they feel anet is thinking and the perpetuation of the one unique weapon per an elite spec myth.

And the announcement video were we see a medium guy wielding a hammer and a medium guy sporting a rifle and already know last medium guy will get staff.
But then again same video shows a staff that looks like a spear being wielded aswell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOUk2y0K2m8

Look 01:04-01:09 and tell me that looks like a staff.

Do engineers where medium armor and wield rifles?

If yes… That could be an Engineer
If no… wait… that could be an Engineer

I think that could be an engineer and isn’t concrete evidence for anything.

Edit:

Also in that trailer we have three elite specs shown off

Druid, Engi Elite Spec, Chronomancer

Not a single of three now known elite specs (reaper, dragonhunter, tempest)

are seen in that trailer as a sneak-peak so why should anyone believe that the thief elite spec was dropped in there for a sneak-peak?

CodeHavoc.7926:

1) Data mined info is not gospel, Anet can change anything at anytime. (As seen with tempest)
2) Teef maybe getting rifle seems more themed with an infiltration type class.

What seems to more thief themed is entirely your opinion and not gospel.

All most people in the pro-staff crowd are saying is that there is more concrete (data-mined) evidence that supports thief getting staff while there is zero actual evidence that shows thief will get rifle. All the pro-rifle crowd can conjure up is their opinions on what they feel anet is thinking and the perpetuation of the one unique weapon per an elite spec myth.

Seeing how the tempest blog didn’t come with a trailer like the previous three elite spec blogs. They might be trying to pick up the pace on releasing info hopefully.

JoshuaRAWR.4653:

Zalavaaris.5329:

If you’re looking for a pattern at all look at the data mined weapons and how many of them were accurate. Cough all of them cough

Cough no cough.

People speculated and it was datamined that the Ele would be getting either a Sword or an Axe, not a warhorn at all.

Cough people have being speculating that ele would get warhorn. Sense the cough datamined ele warhorn. End Cough

Is this a video on how to counter lich or a video on how to use your defensive abilities on all classes? Because these tactics would work against all skills in the game. Not saying Lich is amazing but this seems like a clear straw man argument.

This is hilarious
post on thief forums saying Jade Winds > Basilisk Venom
post on necro forums saying Jade Winds > Chilled to the Bone!
post on revenant forums saying Basilisk Venom > Jade Winds

I’m glad everyone here has already tested these abilities in action and has definite proof of all this.

Zodryn.4216:

True BV has some advantages, but the fact remains it’s a 1s single target stun and it’s an elite skill. How would you feel if mesmers moa elite turned them into a moa for 1 second, but had a 40s cooldown? It just doesn’t feel like an elite skill, it’d be fine as a normal utility.

Yeah my biggest problem with basilisk venom is that is just doesn’t feel like an elite skill as well. But it is still completely functional and does the job I need it to do more often then not you know. Also, moa elite still gives the player the ability to kite (huge disadvantage to the ability).

At the end of the day you cant compare skill to skills in my opinion. You have to compare kits to kits like you would do in a moba. Not every ultimate in League of Legends is exactly equally balanced for instance. Christ some of the strongest champions in League of Legends don’t even have ultimate abilities.

This post highlighted all the advantages jade wind has over bv but none of the advantages bv has over jade wind. If your gonna compare two abilities give the complete context please.

Basilisk venom has
1. Two chances to proc on enemies (less chance to be avoided)
2. Is no where near as telegraphed as jade winds
3. Can be proc from a multitude of ranges in a multitude of ways.

The overall utility of basilisk venom is far greater then jade winds hence why it is given a lot of disadvantages. Also on top of the fact that basilisk venom exist on a class that can 100-0 almost any squishy/low health target in that basilisk venom time window with mug from 1200 range.

Also the two abilities don’t even function or occupy the same game play space beyond they both stun(turn people to stone thematically). Jade winds is an aoe wombo combo ability with a large windup time similar to reaper’s chilled to the bone. Basilisk venom is single target focus and can function with no cast time if preset which is the advantage/disadvantage of venoms.

Honestly feels like people saw jade winds and went their ability turns ppl to stone wait ours does that du fuq.

PlatinumMember.5274:

Well folks it has been fun, but I am out. I am off to necromancer land. (the warhorn was just the tie breaker, I have an irrational hatred for the dagger and scepter isn’t ever going to be fixed).

warhorn confirmed for ele has hate for dagger… leaves for necro what

Zero Day.2594:

Orpheal.8263:

Slapinator.4196:

That’s completely out of the teef concept, teefs are supposed to be stealthy, spies, neutralize their target and leave unoticed not some kind of budhha shaolin monk.

I think you have still not realized that Elite Specializations aren’t just plain copies of their Main Classes with expanded skill options and a new weapon, but in fact completely different gameplay concepts with changed gameplay mechanics to give the E-Spec a completely different gameplay feeling from what you received with the original Main Professions.

Plus, its THIEF, not teef , learn2spell :P

I think you haven’t realized that Elite Specialization are nothing but extensions to existing classes, and provide only unique game play through the new weapon – which is by the game’s base design (a P/D will forever play like a P/D, a D/P will forever play like a D/P, and so forth). We do get a handful of utility skills (and one heal) besides the weapon’s skill.

Plus, pretty sure it’s TEEF, not thief, learn2lingo. :P

Explain to me how dragonhunter is a simple extension of guardian plox?

Im pretty sure he knows that he is speculating on future specs after HoT release. Also yeah a minstrel would be cool but what weapon would you give it?

A shadow clone type ability would go awesome with a range caster staff and the tech is already in the game with mesmer clones. Would just need to port it over and make the clone do meaningful damage.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Balancing P/P is actually really simple – make the autoattack faster. Something more akin to Ranger shortbow’s AA fire rate. It would still do garbage for power damage, which means the P/P set itself is generally junk as its big-damage skill is Power while its AA would be Malice, but the MH pistol by itself would no longer be doing essentially nothing with its autoattack. Sinister sets, or other Power/Malice hybrids, would still potentially get some use out of it, and P/D would actually be good in places other than Wuv.

And if you figure the rifle would be problematic to do well…then what, pray tell, would the staff do that, again, isn’t currently being done by S/*? I can think of a few different ways to take rifle that the Thief doesn’t currently do, or do well. I have yet to conceive of, or see someone else conceive of, something the staff does (other than ludicrous shadow-Mesmer nonsense or similar never-gonna-happen tomfoolery) that the sword doesn’t cover.

Thief sword is awesome, Thief MH pistol is butt. Why make the elite spec’s weapon selection compete with the sword and inevitably fail?

Could give us a condition focused melee set that isnt spamming leaing death blossom like the direction they went with Dragonhunters.DD

Rifle would have to live in the same space and compete against P/P if its a dps option. If its an utility option it would have to compete against shortbow. I was just saying that anet hasn’t had a track record of making P/P any better why would they give us something with the same dps at 1200 range?

Doesn’t the difficulty that anet has had with balancing the P/P set as our range dps option kind of kill the hope that rifle would be this god send of a damage option given to us at 1200 range?

arenta.2953:

sebradle.7034:

arenta.2953:

yeah.
we don’t know its kit

aka. we don’t know its staff.

all we see is a picture.
which could be for numerous things. not necessarily the class.

and here, in this thread. we’ve listed numerous ways it could be a rifle

but not one real way it could be a staff. and you just say “we don’t know what it could be”
why? cause you can’t think of a way?

the staff thats been described is basically Wukong the monkey king.
yeah….like THATS gonna appeal to players choosing a class.
“lets play a monkey”

either give us ideas for staff. or gtfo
stop giving excuses

All I needed to know right here. You honestly some how believe that datamined specialization artwork could be a rifle that just tells me how much in denial you are.

I am not giving excuses I’m making logical statements based on the given information not saying kitten like. Well obviously dagger will be better then staff or who would take dagger over staff. Again you dont know that I dont know that but somehow that is the entire basis of your argument against us getting staff in favor of rifle.

Hur Dur we are getting rifle because staff wouldnt feel what i see as a void.

Your entire argument is bs based on your subjective want for a rifle for thief. Your only argument against staff is that rifle makes more sense great but you have zero actual evidence. Also dont bring up the oh that medium armor guy with a rifle in the HoT trailer that is not evidence because engineers exist in gw2.

again the level of denial is ridiculous here

datamined thief with staff
http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
same color palette as current thief artwork ingame
http://i.imgur.com/a6mgWWL.png
http://i.imgur.com/CuEYVaK.png
http://i.imgur.com/rNAy4Jb.png
datamined staff
http://i.imgur.com/96W2uJ4.jpg
datamined kunai
http://imgur.com/eB9Vfzs

Wait we might have the makings of a ninjaesque class. Of course this is still speculation but it carries some weight.

oh look similar thing for reaper, oh look it has a greatsword in it
http://i.imgur.com/G5GiPur.png
http://i.imgur.com/vrpVlRl.png
http://i.imgur.com/njLjRMi.png

Maybe just maybe the elite spec artwork has its weapon in it? Wait lets check on that Johnny.
http://i.imgur.com/I50e1iB.png
http://i.imgur.com/Hgxwwxv.png

So don’t tell me to stop making excuses you need to stop making excuses and pony up some concrete evidence that we are getting rifle for thief.

ok lets use your logic

HEY GUYS NECRO IS GETTING SCYTHE.
CAUSE IT SHOWS IT IN THE PICTURE
http://i.imgur.com/n1RZJe5.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/n1RZJe5.jpg

see how dumb that sounds?
the animation shows a scythe in game yes, but we don’t get the scythe from gw1 now do we?
no. we get a skill

how do we know that picture isn’t representign a skill of the elite thief.
for example, thief throws spear when coming out of stealth.

could be. we don’t know

what do we know? the only time u have scythe is through skills.
or a skin for staff users. who can’t swing it.

we don’t actually get a scythe to swing.

and btw…martial artist with a bo staff….is not that picture. why would a martial artist be “dark themed”

Yeah im done with you your definitely in denial. You made no effort even to talk about the string of evidence that supports that artwork as our elite spec.

The fact that it was datamined in a patch with every other elite spec art piece means zero to you.

The fact that there is an exact copy of that staff datamined as a weapon means nothing to you.

The fact that it is in the same style and color palette as other thief specialization backdrops means nothing to you.

The fact that other elite spec backdrops that have already been release (reaper, dragonhunter, chronomancer) all have a similar setup of showing their release weapons in the backdrops mean nothing to you.

That fact that a kunai kit was datamined giving the over all ninja trope seen in the art piece more weight means nothing to you (the character in the artwork is in sneakthief the token ninja armor).

Instead you say I am throwing excuses then construct a weak argument by showing a picture of lich form clearly and saying guys guys we are getting sycthes. In order to demonstrate what oh one piece of evidence doesn’t stand on its own or could be false well clearly genius. Again you shown nothing to support your own claim that we are getting rifles but tell me I am making excuses ok lol.

You are clearly thickheaded and any thing I put forward to you isnt gonna change your opinion because your opinion clearly doesn’t want to be changed. Instead you attack what I put forward with weak strawmans and put nothing forward yourself always demanding I produce something. Thanks for the discussion later.

arenta.2953:

yeah.
we don’t know its kit

aka. we don’t know its staff.

all we see is a picture.
which could be for numerous things. not necessarily the class.

and here, in this thread. we’ve listed numerous ways it could be a rifle

but not one real way it could be a staff. and you just say “we don’t know what it could be”
why? cause you can’t think of a way?

the staff thats been described is basically Wukong the monkey king.
yeah….like THATS gonna appeal to players choosing a class.
“lets play a monkey”

either give us ideas for staff. or gtfo
stop giving excuses

All I needed to know right here. You honestly some how believe that datamined specialization artwork could be a rifle that just tells me how much in denial you are.

I am not giving excuses I’m making logical statements based on the given information not saying kitten like. Well obviously dagger will be better then staff or who would take dagger over staff. Again you dont know that I dont know that but somehow that is the entire basis of your argument against us getting staff in favor of rifle.

Hur Dur we are getting rifle because staff wouldnt feel what i see as a void.

Your entire argument is bs based on your subjective want for a rifle for thief. Your only argument against staff is that rifle makes more sense great but you have zero actual evidence. Also dont bring up the oh that medium armor guy with a rifle in the HoT trailer that is not evidence because engineers exist in gw2.

again the level of denial is ridiculous here

datamined thief with staff
http://i.imgur.com/xA8qvVk.png
same color palette as current thief artwork ingame
http://i.imgur.com/a6mgWWL.png
http://i.imgur.com/CuEYVaK.png
http://i.imgur.com/rNAy4Jb.png
datamined staff
http://i.imgur.com/96W2uJ4.jpg
datamined kunai
http://imgur.com/eB9Vfzs

Wait we might have the makings of a ninjaesque class. Of course this is still speculation but it carries some weight.

oh look similar thing for reaper, oh look it has a greatsword in it
http://i.imgur.com/G5GiPur.png
http://i.imgur.com/vrpVlRl.png
http://i.imgur.com/njLjRMi.png

Maybe just maybe the elite spec artwork has its weapon in it? Wait lets check on that Johnny.
http://i.imgur.com/I50e1iB.png
http://i.imgur.com/Hgxwwxv.png

So don’t tell me to stop making excuses you need to stop making excuses and pony up some concrete evidence that we are getting rifle for thief.

arenta.2953:

if you don’t have to stay still, then the dmg would be constant dmg instead of burst.

aka, warrior with HIGH HP AND ARMOR works
thief with low hp and low armor would not.

you’ve failed to explain HOW staff would be a superior choice over dagger. WHEN YOU HAVE THE LOWEST HP OF ANY CLASS. TIED WITH ELE AND GUARDIAN. AND YOU DON’T HAVE GUARDIAN ARMOR.

SO EXPLAIN kitten .

aoe? HOW.
unless its ranged AoE….opps shortbow.

so melee AoE? why. what do we stand to gain in it

and i use death blossom.

here i am explaining all these ways stuff would work and how.
and how stuff DOES work in game
and your just saying “no cause lame”

Yes I have failed to explain how it would be better than dagger just like you have failed to explain how its inferior to dagger for one simple reason.

WE DO NOT KNOW ITS KIT

Your making a lot of assumption dude by saying staff would be worse then dagger how in the hell do you know that. I cant tell you how it would be better and you cant tell me how it would be worse.

Also you keep on bringing up thief hp why? Thieves have low hp yes ok great there is this thing called evades built into ever thief weapon and you get two for free. But you know don’t acknowledge that I said this in my last two posts again just keep saying thieves have low hp. You say that like no one should even play thief or any class besides warrior.

Also your the one that said staff sounds lame first and i responded with why I feel rifle is lame. But obviously you summed up everything ive said in all my posts to that one sentence and obviously cant respect that I and others might have a differing opinion lol. I have said plenty on why I think both rifle and staff could work go read it lol.

arenta.2953:

greatsword warrior…mobile?
looks at 2 skill "forces you to stay still use

sure the 5 and 3 skill are “mobile” but the 5 skill isn’t AoE. or dmg
the 3 skill is…but its one skill….and not your main skill
4 skill? don’t make me laugh. its single

add to this warrior has HIGH HP
and HIGH ARMOR.
aka it can build up the dpm by staying in combat.
thief…CAN’T

if u want to be up close and dodging, use dagger. (or use ranger with its medium hp. medium armor value. evasion greatsword. or evasion sword)

but rifle is something that thief could use as it works for it
long range, alpha dmg burst.
low armor. low hp. but mobile enough to stay at range.

see how it works for the class?

while a constant dmg staff does not

Just because hundred blades is stationary doesn’t mean warrior great sword inst mobile 3 and 5 give you 1650 range gap closer/escape 3 is only on a 10 second cooldown. Every single ability besides rush does dmg to multiple targets so yeah its aoe focused.

See the issue I have with the way your arguing that staff would be useless is you are assuming the kit anet creates for said staff requires you to stand still and take damage. Why in gods name would anet give staff no mobility when EVERY SINGLE THIEF SET IN THE GAME has some form of dash or teleport besides p/p.

Also any half descent thief player knows they need to avoid damage because you are low armor, low hp. Its not like when you use dagger or sword that you can just mindless stand there and do your dmage rotation without having to dodge. Also dagger has no dodge it has leaping death blossom a skill noone uses.

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

This is what you don’t get. The point of elite specs isn’t to give people already playing that profession a pile of all the goodies they’ve been wanting. It’s to make that profession appealing to people who weren’t previously interested. It’s supposed to encourage alts and keep people playing in the same way that new professions would, but with massively less development cost in animations and art assets. If the Sniper feels nothing like a Thief, that’s totally fine. If someone who previously only played Ranger now makes a Thief, then that’s a win for the devs.

When did anet say any of that? How do you know that is there design focus?

arenta.2953:

sebradle.7034:

arenta.2953:

but who would use it? when Dagger already works so well?

pistol pistol is mobile range from medium range

rifle is stationary range from LONG RANGE

aka something new that benefits the low hp, low armor. high mobility class

dmg

Dagger is a single target focused weapon like Necro dagger and Warrior axe.
Both greatsword for Reaper and Warrior are burst aoe specs.

Thieves lack a dedicated melee burst aoe weapon sword/pistol comes close but its more cc focused. When they revealed Rev staff they said that initially they had a more offensive minded kit how much you wanna bet that ended up on thief to give an aoe focused melee option.

Also by mobile short ranged you mean that you can use all the skills while moving right? Cause I wouldn’t really say P/P is mobile cause that is the reason no one plays it really. Also there is no way they would give rifle a movement skill unless it cost a hefty amount of initiative.

theif isn’t supposed to be AoE. as AoE spreads dmg out and as such changes hte focus to constant dmg instead of burst.
and seriously? warrior greatsword for AoE? sure if you want to be stationary and enemy stays in range. (and if u ok with a pretty kittenty dpm compared to thief dagger)

so…..lets sum it up
low armor
low hp
focused on mobility
but squishy as hell

using AoE constant dmg that requires them to stay in combat for prolonged period of time.
…..squishy armor…squishy hp……

i guess you could do burst aoe dmg…but it would be inferior to dagger dmg.
and so your enemies would recover during the cooldown of the burst.

……lame

dpm = damage per minute btw.

Standing back and pew pewing is my subjective definition of lame when I play my thief/assassin class I want to be gibbing and evading people. When I play my ranger I want to be standing back and pew pewing.

Also yes greatsword for warrior is an aoe mobile focused spec what else would you consider it?

TeuthidPurveyor.1970:

sebradle.7034:

arenta.2953:

but who would use it? when Dagger already works so well?
that sounds like it would benefit mesmer more or ranger.

People who wanna use staff maybe? With that mindset why give any option or variety? Why does…

Warrior need Greatsword and Axe, Hammer and Mace
Ranger need Sword and Greatsword
Necro need Greatsword and Dagger
Guardian need Sword and Greatsword
Thief need pistol/pistol and rifle

Uh… Ranger needs sword and greatsword because sword is about evasion and escape, while greatsword is about gap closing and damage. Necro needs greatsword because they didn’t have an off-hand melee weapon and because non-initiative classes need 2 melee sets to play dedicated melee.

That is exactly my point lol. I was simplifying it just like there argument is there is no room for another melee weapon because sword and dagger are there. Of course I know each weapon has its nuances and plays differently.

We cant have staff because all melee weapons play the same. /s

arenta.2953:

but who would use it? when Dagger already works so well?

pistol pistol is mobile range from medium range

rifle is stationary range from LONG RANGE

aka something new that benefits the low hp, low armor. high mobility class

dmg

Dagger is a single target focused weapon like Necro dagger and Warrior axe.
Both greatsword for Reaper and Warrior are burst aoe specs.

Thieves lack a dedicated melee burst aoe weapon sword/pistol comes close but its more cc focused. When they revealed Rev staff they said that initially they had a more offensive minded kit how much you wanna bet that ended up on thief to give an aoe focused melee option.

Also by mobile short ranged you mean that you can use all the skills while moving right? Cause I wouldn’t really say P/P is mobile cause that is the reason no one plays it really. Also there is no way they would give rifle a movement skill unless it cost a hefty amount of initiative.

arenta.2953:

but who would use it? when Dagger already works so well?
that sounds like it would benefit mesmer more or ranger.

People who wanna use staff maybe? With that mindset why give any option or variety? Why does…

Warrior need Greatsword and Axe, Hammer and Mace
Ranger need Sword and Greatsword
Necro need Greatsword and Dagger
Guardian need Sword and Greatsword
Thief need pistol/pistol and rifle

Could go on with other overlaps in play style between weapons but at the end of the day this overlaps are there to give more variety to a class. Also all this about thieves having no 1200 range option but we also do not have a two handed melee option does that make my argument for staff any better no because the lack of something in a kit does not guarantee it will be made for the class. You know what makes the argument for staff strong the datamined artwork with a staff, datamined staff from the artwork, and datamined kunai with artwork featuring a ninja.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

Let’s face it, Arenta – most of this crowd sees anything other than standing up the nearest enemy bum in a giant heap and blasting fire fields all day erry day as a failure and a waste of time.

I am looking so freaking forward to watching the stack-and-burns crash and burn when they try that crud in Heart of Thorns. Just imagine the woe and rabble-rousery that will light these cursed lands when people find out that clumping together like morons and doing nothing but blasting Fire gets them knocked over like bowling pins and they actually need to spread out, watch their positions, and fight wherever they get a chance.

It will be glorious. Unlike the idiotic staff set we’re apparently getting on Thieves. Blegh.

The only reason I can see why people want rifle is for its 1200 range to make world bosses and WvW more ease right? What class actually uses their range option more then 20% of the time in pve besides eles?

For staff going off the speculation that its a ninja could be a fire bomb around you similar to black powder kind of boring for class defining mechanic though but hey so is steal. Also a chain pull like I said falls into that theme.

The thing I’m thinking though is I don’t know if they can ever make mechanic they replace steal with grant stealth because of the hidden thief trait already granting stealth on steal use. If they made the mechanic give stealth the trait would have to extend the stealth time to make the trait actually function when you take it.

For the rifle I was thinking a sniper nest like mechanic like you said that functions kind of like a trap because it would still need to activate mug. Also another mechanic could be a death mark like ability that puts a mark for a duration on an enemy and after the duration is over it deals the damage the enemy took during its duration to the enemy. Would be a kind of a cool burst mechanic.

arenta.2953:

keeping in mind its likely thief will lose steal when they move from theif to the elite mastery profession.
so it could change to a variety of things

heck, thief could lose stealth skills(to be replaced by the elite mastery’s skills)

Yeah thief will lose steal. The only real thing restricting the class mechanic they put in place of steal is traits like mug and sleight of hand that do direct effects to enemies. What ever mechanic they come up with would still need to be enemy targeted or ground targeted in an area to still proc these traits.

Edit: Also with how much arena net likes to reuse mechanics and skill animations across classes I wouldn’t be too surprised if steal becomes the chain from dragon hunter and gives us the ability to pull the enemy.

DevilLordLaser.8619:

‘Not my cup of tea’ is different from ‘not even tangentially related to the base class’.

The melee Staff folks seem to basically be wanting a new profession entirely – a D&D-style Monk or other noble martial artist – and are hanging their threadbare hopes on the Thief as being, vaguely and in only the most superficial sense, the closest they have to their desired Martial Artist Guy. The Ranger elite spec is already confirmed as a natural caster, and the Engineer is never going to be an acrobatic martial artist. It has nothing to do with Thievery, or any of the other, more specialized methods of achieving Thievery out there.

The problem, of course, is that it doesn’t fit the Thief, either. It’s just not a thing in this game, and mutilating the Thief’s elite spec to try and fit the King-F(u) Panda mold is honestly as insulting to Thief players as the Dragonhunter was to Guardian players. Except the Dragonhunter actually worked and was awesome except for the name and the weird forced big-game thing.

Melee staff isn’t even cool, or a thing that plugs a gaping hole in the Thief’s line-up.

If you wanna have a subjective argument of what “fits” a thief ok let me take a kick at it. The bo staff fits it just as well as a rifle in the current thematic state of thief seeing as we have two trait lines called acrobatics and trickery. So it would seem a pole vaulting monkey king esque trickster would have some connection to the current thief and it wouldnt be such a leap of faith to accept that. Also who is to said that the staff is going to be used in a kungkittentype fighting style. Seeing how there is data-mined ninja kunai it wouldn’t seem to far fetched to speculate that the staff could have some ninja type shadow magic abilities as well as some kungkittenacrobatics if the elite spec class is a ninja (sneakthief is the token ninja style armor in gw2).

As for the rifle that would be a sniper class right? Well who in the world snipes someone in order to steal from them. Also the thief is a primarily melee, heavily dodge orientated class seeing how all weapon sets besides one p/p has some movement built in. Snipers are typically proned hence zero movement and even from a gameplay perspective not a single 1200 range weapon in the game currently has a dash in the kit because it would be broken (except engi rifle but the jump has a huge delay and the knock up self stuns). So if anyone thinks they are gonna give us a 1200 range mobile rifle I’ll believe it when i see it (just look at the kite potential on p/d now put that at 1200 range with a kill shot).

@DevilLordLaser

Of course you have the right to be upset if the elite spec they come up with isn’t your cup of tea. For instance I wasn’t too thrilled when we all thought we were getting a sniper with a rifle. I was ok with it, though personally the staff is ok with me but I would actually prefer an elite spec with off hand sword tbh. The thing about the elite specs I want the most is when each class has multiple elite specs that’s what I am most excited for even though that will probably be way down the road from now.

Yeah I can see a range magic vibe from it. Also even if people don’t like the first thief elite spec that is why they are called specializations. Hopefully anet is quick and can release more quality elite specs after HoT release.

riian.5690:

His hands are clearly not holding the weapon, which in all honestly anyone an see at first glance. It could certainly be staff, but I would highly doubt it in melee form. It seems to more or less a similar animation of the mesmer’s greatsword auto-attack.
My statement was done at first glance, I never saw a guy rushing with a weapon at all. I went totally Bruce Lee for me.

I agree with you that you can read it as a person disabling another person because you don’t see him actually holding the staff. But like I said why would that not be made clearer or be more of the center piece of the artwork. Like actually showing the other person this thief is disabling for instance. Also we see the top of the staff if he was disabling someone then the job is already done so yeah…. kind of kills that message.

arenta.2953:

go by that logic if u want, but then why put staff in at all.
what does theif gain from it?
a mobile melee? nope. dagger
a stationary melee with knockdowns? rip for thief

i’d sooner believe its a dart gun than a staff(at least dart gun is a stealth weapon)

can u give evidence of any ninja using a staff during actual combat (aka not training)

First off a staff is in there cause we are all here speculating that the artwork represents the thief elite spec character panel and every single character panel for elite specs has included the elite spec’s weapon.

Second, what you feel the thief gains from a weapon choice doesn’t matter. You are not the developer anet can give thieves scepters and shoot unicorns from the scepters if they wanted to so saying that scepters does not give thieves anything is a mute point. Just like saying staff gives thieves nothing is a mute point because if anet wants to give thieves staffs they are gonna give thieves staffs no matter how you feel about what thieve’s need.

Third, why do I have to give a historic basis for ninja’s using staffs. Cause first of all ninja’s as seen in movies and other media are so far removed from actual historic ninja that there is no point in comparing the two or giving a historic basis when developing a ninja for a video game. Historic ninja’s for one were mostly peasant farmer’s more likely to use a hoe or other farming tool in the manner of a staff like weapon then a rifle seeing how gunpowder would be hard to come by. Also ninja’s using staffs isn’t crazy look at Donatello from the teenage mutant ninja turtles for example. Also i don’t think you have ever even touched a real bo staff cause if you have actually felt the weight of one you wouldn’t be calling it a bludgeoning weapon like it cant quickly disable or kill someone. A strike from a bo staff on someone without armor is gonna do its job in one hit. Also one of the most iconic ninja weapons is nunchucks those are bludgeoning weapons as well but I guess you cant kill people with those either.

riian.5690:

It could be hand to hand. The “thief” in the image isn’t even technically holding the staff. It would appear he is actually defending against the weapon, grabbing it, or using some sort of martial arts shenanigans. If you look closely, you can even see line work demonstrating movement either away, or towards the “thief.” BOOM, your whole world is now upside down.

The goal of these artworks is to convey a coherent message at a glance. I think your trying really hard to convey a message that isn’t seen initially by the observer when they look at this artwork. The initial read of this art work is a man rushing forward wielding a weapon imo. If they wanted to convey someone disabling an aggressor why would they not make that the center piece or more apparent in the artwork. In this piece if any disabling is going on it would be at his backhand which is faded out so why would that not be made apparent for the observer of the art work if that was the message trying to be conveyed.

arenta.2953:

Lysette.4619:

Class colors are used in the background are reminiscent of theifs current trait lines backgrounds

and yet a blugeoning weapon matches a stealth class?

do we know what color this druid will be? green cause ranger?

answer these
1. why would a stealth class use a blugeoning weapon instead of a single hit weapon.
2. why would they give ranger and theif the same weapon when so many classes have staff? and only 2 have rifle
3. why would they give thief a staff when dagger is already the pinnacle of dmg dealing. what would be the appeal of staff over dagger for a STEALTH class.

4. look at existign thief weapons, all share something, weapons that in real life would be used to quickly kill their target.
one of these things is not like the other. what is it? staff.
but rifle fits in

pistols are ranged yes, but they MOBILE range. constant dmg
rifle is new, stationary ranged alpha dmg

staff? stationary melee? for a thief? thats death
mobile melee? we have sword and dagger already. so a waste

krzygum.4028:

To be fair the character on picture is hardly a druid.

you need to go look up some non D&D druids. look up a druid when their home is destroyed(like for example, when an airship fires on a forest)
they get dark as they pull your body apart and shower your blood over the plants you killed.
oh and heres a pretty picture

You’re really grasping at straws here man. Why don’t you answering me this. Why would any character designer choose to use an armor set called sneakthief to represent a druid class? The whole point of design it to represent something to be readable by your audience usually using available tropes and stereotypes. Now if you can honestly say that you would make the design choice to use a ninja looking outfit to represent a manipulator of nature then good thing we don’t have you on the design team. Also to your point about a stealth class using a bludgeoning weapon I see no problem with it. Staff is a traditional martial arts weapon ninja’s are martial artists. There is more sense in that then putting a druid in tights and a shredder mask.

Denial is strong in those who some how see a rifle in that artwork.

Crise.9401:

Can someone point me to what is the source of the whole Thief rifle speculation in the first place. Is it still just a character in a trailer that we a) assume to be a player character b) assume to be a medium armor class wielding a rifle c) assume to be a Thief.

Seems rather flimsy, likewise the source for Thief getting melee staff is just an artistic background of what is assumed to be the specialization background image. Polearms in the initial HoT trailer come to mind, not to mention said image conveniently is missing both ends of the weapon depicted as far as I recall, so it could just as well be a Thief using a kit with a bundle that has a long haft for example.

The source of the rifle is there is a group of people who believe no two classes can have the same weapon for their elite spec (this has never been stated by anet). If you take this to be true though by a process of elimination of available weapons rifle best fits thief.

The source of the melee staff thief is not just the art background by also a data-mined staff skin that looks exactly like the staff in the the art background. This data-mined staff was data-mined at the same time that a large number of elite specialization weapons were data-mined.

Thief doesn’t need anything. The elite specialization functions as a separate class not a class upgrade. If they wanna make a sniper class out of the thief I’m sure they’ll give thief rifle. But based on the staff artwork and datamined kunai they want to make a ninja elite specialization for thief. So, in my opinion rifle doesn’t suit a ninja too well so we’re getting melee staff. Plenty of room in the future for a sniper elite specialization to be made for thief.

The dragonhunter art teaser had dragon gauntlets in it. So either those gauntlets or the hood are our specialization armor pieces. Can probably speculate a little off of that.