Guild Wars 2

DevilLordLaser.8619:

What happens when none of them use it the next time around in three more years?

How long does a thing have to be completely useless before people are allowed to be tweaked off that the thing is completely useless?

Why do you keep saying that the next round is in three years like you know anet’s business model on elite specs? For all you know they are iterating new elite specs atm and are going to release single elite specs. They don’t have to come out in giant batches 9 at a time.

Ascetic is a cool name. I was actually just thinking that they might be wary of using any names with religious connotations because of charr players. Might be why we have guardian/dragonhunter instead of paladin/inquisitor. Might be reading too much into it though.

I think the two most fitting names are acrobat and monk but they can’t use them.

Acrobat because we already have acrobatics.
Monk because they are probably saving that for an actual guild wars 1 monk healer focused elite spec.

Also enforcer doesn’t really fit in my mind because when I think of the word I think of a big burly guy. Like an enforcer in hockey whose jobs is to just beat the crap out of the other team. Enforcer just doesn’t sound light on his feet like this spec seems to be.

I feel like the dare devil has its own theme definitely. Yes acro was the evasive line but I feel like design wise the daredevil is trying to push that further and be an elite spec that is themed as the evasion tank. The elite spec is a spec built on evasion and fulfills that dodge monk play style found in a lot of games. Say they gave us a shadow bender elite spec is everyone going to complain that the spec is just an upgraded shadow arts just because it focuses on stealth and shadow magic. Same thing with an assassin or even sniper elite spec it would push the single target damage dealer role even further is everyone going to complain that it competes against crit strikes/deadly arts.

Also those complaining about acro getting nerfed. Well in order for us to be able to have access to both acro and these new traits they have to be balanced with the mindset that both can be taken.

Is this the thread where we are not raging like a bunch of two year olds? Traits and staff look really fun gonna be awesome.

Yeah that is what I’m saying is that they aren’t very strong in them selves. So they tacked on these weak conditions to the abilities and it just feels strange. It feels like they had this idea of making them strong with down sides but didn’t go all the way and just tacked on conditions. But if they attached more conditions to them or a health cost you could give them more power.

Example could be is give BiP a health cost and in return give might and fury.

I’m just wondering about these discussions over corruptions. It all really just seems like this discussion came about because consume conditions got nerfed. Because, the other corruptions each have a niche use.
BoP is descent if you need the might
Corrupt Boon is amazing
Epidemic has a strong effect but is more weakened by the current ability of condition necro
Corrosive Poison Cloud is the weakest of the corruptions but I think weakness is either underrated or undertuned.
Personally, in my opinion I wish they went more in the direction of gw1 abilities or the new headbutt skill. Give corruptions powerful effects with large downsides it really suits the necromancer/blood mage theme.
EDIT: Also master of corruption is a really boring trait.

Yeah lets completely ignore that berzerker just got headbutt which is a self harm with strong postives ability. Self harm abilities have been a large part of the necromancer class since gw1. If they give us meaningful effects for the negatives you take on there wouldn’t be an issue. In my opinion corruption abilities should be given even stronger negatives so they can be buffed with even stronger effects.

None of the names I see here really fall into acrobat/gymnast trope which is in my opinion the trope the daredevil name is trying to fall in. Most of the names here are within the superset rogue but fall short of being placed in the acrobat trope. Which probably why they went with daredevil it is the non cliche/exciting way to refer to an acrobat/trapeze artist/tight rope walker.

While the name is not my favorite. I can’t really think of any other names that would suit it. Assuming the daredevil is in the acrobat trope the only names I can think of are acrobat and stuff that has to do with the circus.

Seabreeze.8437:

Zero Day.2594:

Now when people are going to start calling them Double-D……..

Lol too good.

I think we have no choice in the matter how bought that lol. Why would they scrap months maybe half a years of work because of a forum vote.

In what world does daredevil not relate to class that has a trait line called acrobatics? Also one word verse two who cares Daredevil/Dare Devil sounds like a nitpicky, ocd, grammar kitten thing to care about.

Tabootrinket.2631:

sebradle.7034:

yolo swaggins.2570:

The F1 skill will be changed to YOLO!

So if we yolo what do we do man. Like isn’t a daredevil just a berserker who isn’t high and likes to climb kitten instead of kill kitten.

We still port to the targeted ennemy but unequip every armor, trinket and weapons by doing so.
Or better we drop them in the location of activation

Then we scream “Parkour” and do this.

yolo swaggins.2570:

The F1 skill will be changed to YOLO!

So if we yolo what do we do man. Like isn’t a daredevil just a berserker who isn’t high and likes to climb kitten instead of kill kitten.

What does a daredevil do. Swing on rope? Maybe we’ll get a better scorpion wire mechanic.

What’s in a name tbh. I didn’t like daredevil as a name all that much at first but it not being a total cliche name like ninja or acrobat is kind of nice. Wouldn’t mind the cliche names either lol. I’m not that picky I guess.

blue oyster cult

Revenant seems to be similar to thief good in combat mobility while lacking strong condition removal.

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not.

We found out about that in the Reaper BWE thread.
They didn’t have any info like that on the Tempest BWE thread at all!

Yeah your right misremembered. Point still stands anet isnt going to promise anything. If they promise anything they are just gonna create expectations.

Like giving Eles a new role?
Yea, you’re right. We expected it and we’re completely disappointed.

Guess what dude. You can throw as many tantrums as you want. But by the time HoT is released tempest is going to still occupy the same role it currently holds. They arnt going to create an entire new elite spec because people were expecting A and got B.

Malchior.5732:

sebradle.7034:

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not.

We found out about that in the Reaper BWE thread.
They didn’t have any info like that on the Tempest BWE thread at all!

Yeah your right misremembered. Point still stands anet isnt going to promise anything. If they promise anything they are just gonna create expectations.

Malchior.5732:

If they’re working on something: THEY CAN SAY SO!
Are they going to surprise us with a reworked Rebound? No one knows. They never said anything; obviously there will be more complaints.

We got some info that they’re going over the traits and mechanics again, but it seems more like they’re trying to calm down the storm in the Ele forums rather than actually doing anything.

They are not required to give us that transparency this moment. We just heard that they changed the minion type on Rise! Before they told us that we had no clue if they were working on it or not. If you promise people stuff they expect it.

Azel.4786:

DevilLordLaser.8619:

snip

Problem is though that the community lashed out on the Tempest for getting Warhorn, everyone was kittened because they wanted other weapons (I wanted shortbow, many wanted sword). We then collected our thoughts.

We got the elite specialization pointed out several issues. Posts ignored, no dev comment.

We got the BWE made several topics about what could be improved, which traits were good, which were bad. Which skills worked, which didn’t. How the elite was garbage and ways to make it better. How Overloads needed to change (most even said Attunement camping is not an issue as long as it is worth it). How warhorn skills needed to change -in fact, if you look at the pool and comments there a lot of people are trying to work with warhorn.

We get our delayed BWE take away post by ANET and what do we hear? Garbage. They ignored everything that was said since the elite specialization was revealed.

Now take a look at other profession posts, how a lot of stuff was commented, why some feedback was addressed and why they believe something shouldn’t be changed.

How are we (elementalists) supposed to “work with it” when they are giving us the finger and ignoring our feedback?

People have accepted the warhorn, in most aspects, but they wanted to try to improve the class. ANET gave us a crappy answer basically telling us to kitten off.

And I can’t be kittened off because I am supposed to thank them for just listening to our long time request of giving us build diversity? Specially when they give us exactly more of the same? When they give us an elite specialization and make eles the only class not to have access to the new boons and conditions?

Wouldn’t working out on a new elite take more time then we’ve had sense the last beta weekend. If they are putting resources into creating a new elite for tempest you are not gonna see it anytime soon. You have to make your choice do you want number fixes or an entire rework of abilities. Because if you want the later you aren’t going to get that in an update given today. Also there is no guarantee that they have the ability to allocate people to work on that.

yolo swaggins.2570:

I keep getting animations of people beating dead horses. idk what im doing wrong

I hear that.

So because we have crappy range weapons they should give us both shrouds? How bought they fix our crappy range options instead. By taking reaper you make a decision to give up range prowess for more powerful melee options. So you should adjust game play accordingly.

This suggestion goes entirely against the entire design philosophy of elite specializations. You are suppose to be specializing not getting more tools for your tool belt. Reaper should not be given things to make it a necromancer who also has reaper shroud and greatsword. It should be given mechanics to function in the role you have chosen to specialize in by deciding to take the specialization line. Just like if I want to specialize in a condition necromancer I should probably have curses selected.

This suggestion wants to remove variety and just meld the necromancer and reaper together. That goes against everything they said they wanted these elite specs to do. They even stated they are going to change your profession icon when you select an elite spec to differentiate them from the base class and other elite specs. If you gave reaper both shrouds why would I not slot reaper trait line just for the pulsing stability and gap closer on reaper shroud along with the flexibility of death shroud instant fear and range.

Could take on characteristics of the animals not necessarily transform. Similar to udyr from league of legends.

DanteZero.9736:

You’re not the only one who thinks the AA animations are weird. I think it’s because of the order in which they are performed: a swing, a thrust, and another swing. Usual AA sword animations have always been swing twice and then thrust.

They should switch sword aa 2 and sword aa 3.

Isn’t next week Pax? Most likely won’t get a reveal next week. Could even be another BWE.

Why a Lion, Wolf, and Bear torch. Missed the opportunity to make a Lion, Tiger, and Bear torch.

Thanks for the blog post that is more what I was looking for.

I definitely agree with you on the tempest though. It fails on a lot of fronts.

I mostly just get miffed with a lot of the weird entitlement you see on these forums. Not saying criticism is a bad thing but the criticisms get a little ridiculous sometimes. It feels like a lot of people are asking for a million and one option for each profession just because another profession has that option. It feels like some people would be happier if anet gave every profession the same skills and just had each skill repainted with their profession’s cosmetics.

Linken.6345:

sebradle.7034:

A lot of peopke keep saying that anet said that Elite specs provide an entirely new role for the class. I cant seem to find an interview that states this. All I can find is them saying that it provides new ways to utilize previous mechanics. I don’t think they ever excluded making elite specializations that cover similar areas that the regular profession already has. Look at the herald it has a lot of support, base revenant already has support with both ventari and jalis. The herald is just a new way to support.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxLkfXwxLTs

36:42 sometimes its that easy mate.

Thank you. Didn’t know I would have to find a point 37 mins into a video that was quite easy. But thanks for the response. Also he doesn’t say that there so… maybe you should watch the video lol. Colin says “grows it into something new” and “new profession mechanics that fundamentally change how the ranger plays”. That is really vague and doesn’t exclude giving tempest a more melee support focused role. They did change how the profession mechanics fundamentally work. Actually isnt that one of the largest criticisms of the tempest that you now don’t switch your attunements every second and now it is the complete opposite of how you’re “suppose” to play ele.

A lot of people keep saying that anet said that Elite specs provide an entirely new role for the class. I cant seem to find an interview that states this. All I can find is them saying that it provides new ways to utilize previous mechanics. I can’t seem to find where they excluded making elite specializations that cover similar areas that the regular profession already has. Look at the herald it has a lot of support, base revenant already has support with both ventari and jalis. The herald is just a new way to support.

I find the fun of the elite specs is that you actually have to make the choice to specialize. There should be negatives and positives that come about by making this choice. It is a system like classes branches in other mmos. When there is multiple elite specs for a profession the variety should make the game fun. People need to stop trying to get everything on the base class on elite specs and vice versa. This seems similar to that suggestion where elite spec weapons should be available without the trait line equipped and it takes away from the entire point of the system.

Wandelaar.3746:

I don’t get why some people are opposing this idea so passionately?
How could it ever be a bad thing to have more options?

More options isn’t always a good thing. By giving more options that means you have to put work into making all options equally viable. As we see in Guild Wars 2 there is a big issue with that because a lot of options for other classes see very little use. The original Guild Wars was known as “Build” Wars because it had so many options it ended up like a trading card game. They found the balancing of that difficult and moved to the system now in Guild Wars 2. From my view the easiest thing to balance and make fun is a set kit. Kind of like we have now with the legends. It has the advantage of having skills that better interact and compliment one another. But by having a set kit you lose out on the fun of customization which I think a lot of people look for in mmos.

NeroBoron.7285:

Mallyx on a power build? You would only use the heal skill and pain absorption.
You wouldn’t have much benefit from the other both utilities. They have a high energy consume, and you would only benefit from the displacement in certain situations as well as the boon rip. And the elite in a power build ist completely useless.
Anyway I would never pick mallyx in a power build. (In a hybrid I would pick him.for sure) But hey that’s fine for me. There are still enough other legends to pick from.
And each of these combinations will feel completely different and that’s good.

f you picked on of these combination of legend and weapons, you a forced in all skills. Everyone with this combinations has the same skills. It feels like hey we bring you a new playable race but they will all look the same because you have only 1 face 1 hair 1 size and so on. But hey don’t be sad you can still chose your class and wear different armor.

you don’t have a single change option to make some lttile changes in skills when you have chose for example glint and jalis. While as an cantrip ele you still have the option to pick up a non cantrip skill.

I want the possibility of more build variety by these small changes to 1 or 2 skills of your legend. I totally agree that the revenant hast enough build variety in the greater changes section. But I miss the personal adjustments really bad

Yeah I think new utilities would definitely add the feel of this is my load out and the fun of messing around with different builds. For me though like Gw2 in general is pretty bad when it comes to variety of builds. Also I play a lot of moba games so the whole single kit thing doesn’t bother me much. I can definitely see how it bother some though.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

Griffith.7238:

snip

(Thief venoms, useless? You’re probably not a WvW player, as it is the meta for non-roaming thieves and it hurts a lot!)

I do agree completely with the weapon: each class is somehow restricted yet it offers different playstyles. But that’s not the point here.

If you play a mesmer in PvP, you won’t use the same build as a mesmer in PvE, another in dungeon, and a fourth one in WvW. When I see a mesmer in WvW, I wonder “Will they play interrupt/mantras? Will they hide-and-seek? Will they play punish?”, but when I see a Shiro Revenant, I know how they will play, I can easily counter and punish them. You have different combos, juste like the ones you’ve shown. But never will you say “Oh no, I didn’t expect that!” when meeting a Revenant.

Also, you said “With the majority of the current classes they have a limited pool of useful utilities to work with.” Indeed, some skills are useful while other are useless, that’s the problem we have with the Revenant: some skills are useful, others aren’t, but we have to use them.
Let’s take an example: I’m in WvW, with my guild, facing me there’s a blob. I use Jalis’ Forced Engagement (for 50 energy), I hit an enemy, they move towards me for 2 seconds. Either it will be dispelled by the enemy blob, or the enemy barely moves towards me to be efficient. It is somehow useless in WvW.
Also, a Mallyx Revenant will have more difficulties in WvW due to blobs cleansing their members easily, as well as consumables that reduce condition duration by 40%.
In a dungeon, running a Shiro revenant isn’t that useful: Impossible Odds? Somehow useful, but with the zerk meta, it will make you finish the boss 1 second faster. Riposting Shadows? Yes, it is useful. Phase Traversal? The dungeons are small, no need to shadowstep that much, and the unblockable part isn’t that needed, since most bosses melt quickly with a good group. Jade Wind? Useless against bosses.

So saying it’s ok is like saying you have to use Guardians’ Spirit Weapons or Thieves’ Tricks, even though you think they are useless within the game mode you play.

Edit: also you say you’re leaving Ventari out… But some people prefer to play heal, so it’s important to give it a chance (also it it useful in some Fractals and in WvW). You feel the same way about Ventari than other people feel about some skills: we’re not happy with the state of the utility skills.

So all those unideal situations for each legend you came up with. Why are you taking those legends in those situations over another legend? You pretty much said shiro is junk in dungeons why even slot it then. Would I go full venom thief in a dungeon no because it isn’t very effective.

Edit: Gonna reiterate this point also if we did get more utilities for each legend they are going to stay within each legends area of game play and theme of the legend.

Shiro: mobility/damage
Jallis: control/tankiness
Ventari: support through healing
Mallyx: Condition control
Glint: support through buffs/ dragon actives

A new utility for shiro would give might/fury or whatever not condition removal. I’m a little confused what utility you guys want. Give me an example of a utility for Shiro that you think would give variety to the legend while in theme and fitting of the Assassin (offensive) loadout.

NeroBoron.7285:

Yep, as I said “This may change a little with the last announced changes.”

Lol sorry about that didnt read that part.

But I just wanna state if they gave us new utilities it wouldn’t be something like condition removal on Shiro.

Whatever new utilites we got would fall in

Shiro: Mobility, Damage
Jallis: Tankiness, Control
Ventari: Healing, Support
Mallyx: Condition related abilities
Glint: Buffs, Glint Themed Actives

Rym.1469:

Wandelaar.3746:

radioAspen.6829:

Mostly a pve perspective, but.

I think something that people are overlooking in this thread is that the m-word doesn’t dictate a single, static build that is optimal for every single situation, rather it dictates the build that is optimal for that specific situation, and as such it’s dynamic. Even if there are three obvious “meta” utility choices for this piece of content, only two of them may be “meta” for another with a new skill taking up the third slot, etc. If you look at actual build or dungeon guides, they give you all kinds of situational heal, utility, and even trait changes to make for specific reasons.

Furthermore, we can make informed decisions based on other factors. If I’m pugging with my PS warr, I may take more sustain or Fury generation than I otherwise would with an experienced party where I know other people are going to support me.

Revenant currently lacks this kind of finesse. You’re essentially choosing your entire kit on the basis of the one skill you may need. This gives Revenant fewer ways to approach any content, and adding options puts them on par with other classes, not above them.

I fully agree with your point, you change your utilities around a lot depending on the situation. And you’ll be changing all your utilities, or none at all if you need that stability from jalis, for example. The best possible solution, although it would be tons of work for arenanet and they are probably busy working on other specialisations and HoT, would be to add one additional skill tied to each legend, to get 4 options. Which would bring us to 16 (20 if specialised) utility skill options instead of 12 (other classes have 20 options(24 if specialised)).

One note though: It seems unlikely they were planning to add skills to the legends, as indicated by the Glint reveal. They had 6 facets to choose from, and because they were only planning on making 5 skills, they decided to use the 6th facet to make a unique profession mechanic. This would make it really tricky for them to add another Glint skill, as they’re out of facets now.

I would say making up one more Facet name isn’t that hard and I am sure some of the lore hounds would come up with fitting one in just a minute or two even considering adding a bit to the lore. Maybe something with Crystals, considering whole Dragon’s Lair, Desert etc.

Certainly worth it. Considering both Mallyx and Shiro have some names for one more utility for each of them left in their old skill sets. And other two – Jalis and Ventari – don’t have many canon names for skills, so you can do whatever you want with them.

We seem to agree on the “just one more utility per legend”. Now it’s just Roy left….

There isn’t any other facets. If they did something like that they would have to rename Facet of Nature into something more generic. Then they could make a new utility and call it Facet of Nature.

Wandelaar.3746:

Even if no additional utilities have to be added for the sake of balance and meta builds, it would be nice to have the feeling you’re not exactly the same as everyone else because both your weapon skills and you utility skills are predetermined by respectively your weapon and your legend. There probably will be a meta build, with utilities people will expect you to take, but even if new options are weaker, or only needed in a particular niche, options are always welcome imo.
I like to compare it to trait lines, although there is probably an optimized setup for most stuff, trying out something else can surprise your opponents and keep your own gameplay more interesting.

I agree with this here. There is a weird feeling when you see everyone using the same exact stuff while playing Revenant.

NeroBoron.7285:

sebradle.7034:

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

Stronger? The skills itself are as strong as other utilities. That there is no cooldown on some skills or such a low cooldown that you can basically spam it. Is another problem. I already posted somewhere that they really have to add a CD to Pain Absobation because you can get nearly perma resistance. That is a problem for some other skills as well and should be fixed. (Even if not a thief can also spam his skills, but I agree that should not be the case)

I said generally stronger. I think this is true because Revenant has more viable utilities then any other profession. Because it is a newer class (more gameplay to draw from when designing them) and the utilities have been packaged together to work with one another.

Also I was responding to someone who is comparing revenant utilites to having illusion of life forced onto your bar. I think it is beyond ridiculous to compare Revenant utilities to something so highly situational. So please give me the revenant utilities that are so situational that you don’t see yourself using them because they all seem to be of use to me.

Also you cant ignore the no cooldown thing because that is a huge trade off for customization. If you were allowed to choose exactly what you need and have it on no cooldown seems to me like it would make gameplay pretty easy.

I feel that yes the Revenant is lacking in customization and that makes it feel more boring. But I do not look at any of the Legends or their utilities and think oh wow that is just kitten I am never going to use that.

Unrelenting assault needed to have an evade though it felt weird. Also revenants were really squishy during beta weekend it was like playing a thief except you had zero stealth.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

sebradle.7034:

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

I wouldn’t call them “stronger”. Each skill has a game mode in which it is stronger, but other where they’re close to being useless.

Also, the saddest part is: if you see a Revenant, you know how they will play, so it’s easier to counter. And only one new utility per legend will offer not 10 but 20 different builds… Compared to 40480 from other classes, it’s still far, yet twice better than 10!

Would give you more than 20 different builds.

If you add a new utility skill to say shiro that would give you four utilities to choose from for three slots.

That is 4 choose 3 = 4 ways you can have a shiro bar

There is 5 legends so you have 5 choose 2 = 10 combinations of legends

So if you had shiro/ventari
4 ways to have shiro * 4 ways to have ventari = 16 different combinations of shiro/ventari load out

16 * 10 = 160 combinations of utility bars if you gave each legend a new utility.

I think my math is correct my combinatorics is a little rusty. Someone can check it if they want.

Wandelaar.3746:

sebradle.7034:

Adamantium.3682:

sebradle.7034:

You get major advantages for the skills being packaged though. Twice the number of utilities available. Not cool down based. Most of the utilities are stronger then equivalent utilities from other professions. It isn’t like it is difficult to switch out legends in dungeon either. The only one that would take time is glint.

Okay let’s not get carried away here…

Twice the number of skills, but many could be useless depending on your situation. Shiro in dungeons only has 1 usefull skill.

They may not be cooldown based but they certainly are limited by energy so effectively they have shared cooldowns.

Stronger than equivalent? I would like to see some basis for that statement, to me they all feel like pretty standard utilities. Some good, some bad, nothing overpowered.

Many of the utilities I bring on any profession are useless depending on situations I’m in or I won’t blow them even if they could be useful because of long cooldowns.

They share cool downs but you still have the utility of being able to chain a single utility with itself please state that instead of refuting the point. It is like thieves if you effective manage you resource the utility/weapon skill is always there when you need it.

Just a feel there is no basis for it. The feel that they are stronger mostly comes from the fact that you can chain them I think. But you are right each single utility in a vacuum is probably not stronger then a comparative utility.

Also everyone here is clamoring for variety but sorry I don’t even see it in most other professions. How often does shadow refuge leave a thieves bar. How often does well of suffering leave a necros. etc.

About these two examples you mention, shadow refuge leaves the bar quite often, especially when you want to solo dungeons and/or are just doing pve and are going for the most DPS possible. There are almost no utility skills you will always take on other professions, you change them around more than you realise. Secondly, let’s say well of suffering was stuck on your utility skill bar, wouldn’t that remove a big part of the incentive to play different builds, like condition builds for PvP or WvW. There really are not that many skills that are both in your condition AND power builds, or even your celestial build or whatever build you want to run, the fact that you cannot customize them in the slightest on revenant.

Totally agree with you that yes customization on revenant looks really lacking. I mean there is only 5 choose 2 = 10 combination of utility bars. But I don’t think that lack of customization is that detrimental to the game play of the revenant. Again there is advantages to the system they gave us. But there is definitely a huge hit to customization.

Snafoo.2869:

Arkantos.7460:

Rev has 2times more utility then other classes- yes- use it wisely ^^

Engineer says hello.
I can’t help but think this every time people say this, and they say it a lot.

You found one exception does that refute his point for the other 7 professions.

Adamantium.3682:

sebradle.7034:

You get major advantages for the skills being packaged though. Twice the number of utilities available. Not cool down based. Most of the utilities are stronger then equivalent utilities from other professions. It isn’t like it is difficult to switch out legends in dungeon either. The only one that would take time is glint.

Okay let’s not get carried away here…

Twice the number of skills, but many could be useless depending on your situation. Shiro in dungeons only has 1 usefull skill.

They may not be cooldown based but they certainly are limited by energy so effectively they have shared cooldowns.

Stronger than equivalent? I would like to see some basis for that statement, to me they all feel like pretty standard utilities. Some good, some bad, nothing overpowered.

Many of the utilities I bring on any profession are useless depending on situations I’m in or I won’t blow them even if they could be useful because of long cooldowns.

They share cool downs but you still have the utility of being able to chain a single utility with itself please state that instead of refuting the point. It is like thieves if you effective manage you resource the utility/weapon skill is always there when you need it.

Just a feel there is no basis for it. The feel that they are stronger mostly comes from the fact that you can chain them I think. But you are right each single utility in a vacuum is probably not stronger then a comparative utility.

Also everyone here is clamoring for variety but sorry I don’t even see it in most other professions. How often does shadow refuge leave a thieves bar. How often does well of suffering leave a necros. etc.

EDIT: From my point of view the best argument for more utilities would be that yes when you play Revenant you do feel like there is a major lack of customization. So when you set up a build the only thing that makes it feel like your own is the trait line. But even then for most profession that feeling of customization is false because nearly everyone just runs meta builds anyway.

You get major advantages for the skills being packaged though. Twice the number of utilities available. Not cool down based. Most of the utilities are stronger then equivalent utilities from other professions. It isn’t like it is difficult to switch out legends in dungeon either. The only one that would take time is glint.

VergilDeZaniah.3295:

NeroBoron.7285:

@Vergil
Thats it thank you! Sure many combinations dont make that mich sense, but you have the options of fine tuning.

As you said to Deth, indeed there are skills you don’t use (because they are, let’s be honest, useless). But then, since people state it’s ok to have 3 utilities, what am I supposed to with the skills I deem useless I am forced to use? That’s where the problem is.

Think of it people: what if you have to use the most useless skill of your main’s skill pool? It’s quite obvious you’d scream at a lost slot. I’d be kittened if I was force to use Illusion of Life on my mesmer and lose a “better” utility. That’s what we are complaining about: we don’t want a million new skills, just five to be able to tw

But revenant’s utilities are all generally stronger then other profession utilities and on top of that they have no cool downs. So if use your energy right you should always have what you need available. Just the fact that you can spam revenant utilities means to me there should be some trade offs.

Advent.6193:

Honestly, with #Anet Logic? All our thread are belong to Dev, and they’ll give Thief a freakin Scepter. Frankly, whatever it is, I just want it to not suck golfballs through gardenhoses.

Although, yes – a part assault rifle/scythe crossbreed is just pretty darned cool.

Honestly for me they could give us any weapon. The part I care most about are the new utilities and class mechanic. Because steal is the most boring class mechanic in the game so here is hoping we don’t just get another shadow step button.

yolo swaggins.2570:

Shadow.1345:

yolo swaggins.2570:

And don’t feed me the bs that you are “only arguing because evidence shows it’ll be staff”. It is only where it is because because the part of the community that really wants it have hyped it into the sun.

You have no clue. You don’t know where it is and neither do any of us because none of us work for ANet and have no idea what they are planning and why they are planning it.

I understand and respect your passion but this is just a crybaby post because people didn’t agree with you. Ever since that picture was datamined it has been one QQ post after another about that Rifle not being implemented. You were hoping that everyone would agree with you and then all of the hype would change ANet’s mind but if that was all it took then FG would have been reverted and Ricochet would be back but they’re not. Sure, our opinions matter but in the end the final say so is theirs.

Quite frankly if this is how [Teef]‘s Liaison handles himself in public over a disagreement it’s no wonder the guild is floundering the way it is.

Maybe if the people I was arguing with weren’t so closed-minded I wouldn’t have to resort to ad Hominem just to break through that dense barrier of theirs’. And it isn’t like you guys were going to really discuss it anyway. It’s like those anti-thief threads where if you are not agreeing with the OP you are a blind zealot.

Also, I doubt a few notes from self entitled pricks really counts as “floundering”. However I still sympathize with the leader, catching kitten from leeches after you’ve slaved away would kitten off anybody.

But considering the lifecycle of guilds in this game, [Teef] has done pretty well. I would like to see you make a guild closing in on 200 members without buffs or forced rep in a span of 3 months.

How could anyone have a real discussion about a staff kit when every thread delves into the staff posters having to defend why they even think it would be possible that anet would give us staff and not rifle like rifle is the only possible choice.

Also calling us close minded is ridiculous because your entire original post sums up to.

All staff posters are

1. Delusional, Compliant, and Emotional (This reads to me as you are all SHEEPLE!, called us blind Zealots to.)
2. Our ideas are ridiculous cause there is no way in any universe that melee staff would add anything to the profession because I yoloswaggins the great cant see it. (That is great I guess everything that you are ignorant of or not imaginative enough to see isn’t true) (Does yoloswaggins know how quantum mechanics works well if not it isn’t true).
3. We do not really care about thief.
4. We are just crazy people who want to take thief down with are anime waifu delusions and our love of melee staff.
5. That we are not actually arguing "because evidence shows it’ll be staff” but because we just desperately want melee staff at the detriment of the thief profession. (Dang you can read my mind man and tell me why I am arguing).
6. That we are causing the downfall of thief because our hype is the reason we will end up with staff. (Not that anet probably had this in plan for awhile I mean that would be the reasonable way to think about it).
7. That we are close minded and attack people with views differing then ours.

This isn’t just an ad hominem this is you mischaracterizing every single person who wants melee staff in order to discredit us. Because you are close minded aand don’t respect our opinions and you are angry that you might not get what you want so lets throw a tantrum.

MrForz.1953:

Sagat.3285:

Wut? Don’t you know how elite specs are supposed to work?

I clearly do. But the very fact that people pretty much eat eachother on that spec/weapon warfare tells that people don’t want the Thief, they want their own stuff and concepts to be approved by Anet and pick up the remains of the class, it’s ridiculous to witness. For the time being, why not go for Warrior if you want excessive brutality with a massive weapon?

Go look back at all the big rifle vs staff threads. Every single one of them is started by some rifle guy acting like the sky is falling because oh god we might end up with staff. Most of the pro staff people have just been saying we are more likely to get staff. I’m not trying to get Anet to approve my concepts, obviously I cant vouch that anyone else isn’t trying to do that. But at the end of the day we are gonna get whatever anet gives us and for me personally I am gonna still play it no matter what they give us because I like assassin/rogue/ninja archetype characters. I’m not gonna get on these forums the day of the reveal and kitten like the ele’s and their warhorn or the guadians and their dragonhunter because it is a video game for christ sake and I am not gonna throw a tantrum like a two year old who didn’t get what they want. Whatever happens it isn’t the end of the world.