They are not fast enough with balancing fixes. It forces players to give up on the game for a while because they don’t see any improvements.
Bunkers builds are ruining free tournament pug tPvP. People are catching on to this trend. I was just in a game with 3 bunkers builds. 1 guardian and 2 elementalists. It’s simply impossible to dislodge these stupid builds from the nodes. When we miraculously manage to down one of them as a pug, they get revived by their bunker friend (because bunkers are not just specialized in holding nodes but reviving people too), and this goes on and on. When a point is contested it should be instantly grey and not giving points to either team. Unkillable builds are atrociously overpowered with the current PvP objective mechanics. Force people into more balanced builds, if they can’t kill anyone they should suffer for it, just as glass cannons should suffer too. Balanced builds make fun games, but extremes of the build spectrum don’t.
Downed state revival is about as overpowered as healers in other games. As a dps profession you depend on your CC to dump your burst then you have nothing left to interrupt someone reviving the target you put down and you can’t finish them faster than they are being revived. Reviving unfinished players should only happen when the main fight is over. Otherwise everyone should be given a baseline ability made specifically to interrupt someone reviving another player.
I don’t find this to really be a problem, you can bleed out fairly fast if you don’t try to heal up. The real problem with the downed state is people reviving, and how every build should be given a standard way of interrupting it.
Why would your amount of tPvP wins mean anything when you’ve probably played premade against pug in most of them?
Also, if Anet will not balance for pugs and casuals, the interest in their game will drop and reduce its success as a popular esport. People will not follow competitive play for a game in which they think profession balance sucks. Succeeding at being an esport is directly proportional to the number of people who enjoy the PvP in their game.
Thieves are broken. They should have to openly fight for a few seconds to prepare their burst. They don’t have to nerf their damage. They just need to force them into having to think to play this class. The way they currently are, they open with their burst and you can only immediately go defensive and delay your death. Starting the real fighting at 20% hps because they had an unavoidable opener is totally unacceptable.
If I remember right, I would get about 5-10 slivers from salvaging about 50 to 60 gold chests.
[Warrior]18k HB on Chief. Possibly the highest raw HB that can be achieved. Can anyone go higher?
in PvP
Posted by: shaolin.9716
They can’t nerf warriors while still in such a bad shape. Also, a good HB warrior will spec some into defense traits. A pure glass cannon warrior with no defense is so weak that ignoring a pet on you or stepping in AOE for a few seconds will probably kill you, or at least force you to retreat.
Thank you. Very interesting.
If a mediocre PvP game like WoW had reasonable 1v1 balance in some of their expansions, I’m sure Anet can do a lot better. It’s not about being “equally” as good in every situation. It’s about being POSSIBLE to deal with a situation even if it’s not the specialization of your build, and not having to give up before even trying.
sPvP should cap at 10 players too. Otherwise, good for you if you’re good with a fully organized group but the complaints are justified when people pug tPvP. The devs might as well say that they don’t support solo play if they don’t fix anything.
MOA. If this pve based skill should be allowed in PvP, then it should break on damage or make the moa’d invulnerable for the duration.
I have a feeling this skill’s intent was for CC. It is being used to lock someone down the entire time and pummeling a defenseless target.
Bad design.
Quoted for truth.
Couldn’t have said it better, which is why 1v1 balance needs a good look into. Every build should have a chance at dealing with any PvP situation they encounter, not running away because they do not “counter” their opponent.
the “pug” caveat still smacks of “sore loser”
are people really that intimidated by guild groups?
I don’t get all butt hurt when I see matching guild tags. I just adjust my mind-set/strategy and hope my teammates are up for making a go of it. I don’t necessarily expect to win, but I certainly don’t expect to lose either.
The game outcome is flawed from the start. It can surely go both ways but chances are really not in your favor. When I play for fun and don’t care about winning I hot join. If I want a competitive FAIR match playing objectives I join tPvP until I find a fair game. It’s just a shame that the system isn’t designed to give puggers a fair and enjoyable experience in tournaments right now.
Of course I’ve beaten bad premades on many times, but my pug has been stomped by premades a lot more times so that’s what I base my decision on. The most frustrating is when your pug plays extremely well (considering it’s a pug) but loses like 500 to 400+ to a bad premade which would never have won if they didn’t have the advantage of planned team composition and communication.
so your issue is you don’t like losing?
getting beaten 500 to 400+ rates as a good game in my book. far better than not scoring any points at all i.e. what happens when your fighting 5v4 against a solid premade
this honestly all just smacks of being “sore losers”
Not at all, I have no problem losing to another pug and will congratulate them for their good and fair win.
All bunker builds need a good review.
Of course I’ve beaten bad premades on many times, but my pug has been stomped by premades a lot more times so that’s what I base my decision on. The most frustrating is when your pug plays extremely well (considering it’s a pug) but loses like 500 to 400+ to a bad premade which would never have won if they didn’t have the advantage of planned team composition and communication.
Q: how do they know it’s “not fun” or “unbalanced” before the match has even started? And at what point does my fun come into play in this since they’re ruining my fun (and the two or three others who stayed with me) by leaving?
Regardless of their perceived “fun” it’s a competitive game mode which means it’s not meant to cater to everyone. That’s what HotJoins are for. And those it’s not currently catering to are ruining MY fun because they can’t see an easy win in the cards.
A: When I log into a game I run to their spawn point and take a look, if it’s all the same guild I assume it’s a premade and don’t play that game unless my team is also a premade. I’ve played more than my fair share of these games to realize it’s a waste of time at which point I decided to just skip these unbalanced games.
And it’s not about seeing an easy win at all but simply a fair game, period. Even Team Paradigm suggested it’s a bad idea to match pugs against premades:
“Also a separation in the ranking system between people queuing solo and a premade team. It’s unfair for people trying to learn the game and the better players don’t learn much from it either, so a ranking system definitely.”
Unfortunately, MMO game designers seem too focused on the “it’s an MMO so it must be balanced on groups” mentality. I’m sure a game with an amazing combat system like GW2 targeting players who like to play solo competitively would have tremendous success. Although the game is “rock, paper, scissor” with 1v1 balancing work you can grind your rock, fold your paper, and unsharpen your scissors up to a point where skill becomes more important than the minimized imbalances.
Still not applicable. If they would make something like that people would just stay in game but do nothing if it’s not fun. The only solution is making sure the game is fun for pug players by not putting them in obviously unbalanced games.
Had to laugh at the warriors are op but not mesmers comment. Sounds like OP bought the game yesterday and played a few games.
people leaving tPvP matches seems to be turning into a common occurrence. Multiple times over the last week I’ve had successive 4v5 tPvP matches (some ending up as 3v5) because someone(s) just bailed before the match even began or shortly after or just went afk for the duration – in one such case they stayed afk through the 2nd round after we won 4v5 in the first round.
give them a lengthy lockout (days) or the option to reset lockout with paid tourny tickets.
They can never force someone to play if they don’t want to. It’s just not applicable. What if someone has a real life emergency? If they want people to stop leaving pugs they need to make it enjoyable for them i.e. no matching against premades and no requiring bunkers to win.
Many people have said that playing a bunker is fairly easy which explains why you see keyboard turning clickers able to hold a node with a bunker build, their playstyle is slow, plenty of room for mistakes, half of them can’t even defend against a burst and they eat the full burst, but not like it matters because one heal and they’re almost full if not completely full health. GW2 currently allows specializations to go way too far, you get ridiculous glass cannons and ridiculous bunker builds.
One of the most reliable ways to spot a bad player is based on how much they whine about bunkers.
Shaolin, that is absolutely incorrect, characters built with the tools to bring bunkers down can do so solo, although that is normally not a very efficient way to things. Just because you are not capable of creating the right build/using them effectively does not mean they do not exist.
Which is why 1v1 balance is important otherwise it’s always about the build, not about the player.
Before they do that they need to stop matching pugs against premades. As it is now, it’s perfectly acceptable to leave when your pug hits a premade. Why waste your time against a team with both the advantages of planned team composition and communication.
If you have on one team a bunker who takes 2 people to kill him, and none on the other team, it’s the same as if it was 5v6. A bunker build would be more acceptable if when you steps on an enemy node point, it becomes neutral, that way keyboard turning clickers bunkers wouldn’t be able to defend a point endlessly against a single opponent, which is absolutely unfair. The problem is that if you’re a dps and attack a bunker at HIS node, he will keep it, if you’re a dps at YOUR node and a bunker comes he will take it from you. Clearly imbalanced gameplay with current node capture mechanics.
It would be great and generate better feedback for 1v1 balance.
I’ll get mad for killing a guy 3 times until they give us baseline interrupt abilities. It’s a game breaking mechanic for the builds without a ton of stuns. I’ve used my only stun every time it was up but just couldn’t do anything to stop this stupid situation. Every time the enemy gets revived in combat it’s the same as if a partial new enemy arrived, so it’s very significant when it accumulates. It’s unacceptable that some builds have nothing to prevent it. If downed state is a global mechanic, all builds need a global way to counter it.
(edited by shaolin.9716)
I agree 100% that damage should stop it. I just had a tournament game where we were 3v3 at Foefire graveyard, very long fight. I downed one guy 3 times, another guy 2 times, I got downed 1 time and executed. Reviving a downed ally should only happen when the fight is over and no one managed to finish that player off. I work hard not to get downed, while players like those I fought don’t care because they have abilities allowing them to abuse this mechanic, taking turns.
The key is to make sure your bunkers are better than thiers and to make sure you can take down a bunker faster than they can take yours
Seems like a more fitting name for the game would be “Bunker Wars 2”.
By ‘bring the player" I meant bring a player playing any build he wants. But “bring the build” is what you need to do to win because some builds are vastly superior to others, so it sucks for anyone who doesn’t wanna play a bunker, just as it sucked in other game where you wanted to be a dps but if your team had no heals it was pointless to try. I can understand some builds being more mobile or reasonable stuff like that, but not builds which are superior in combat i.e. having less chance to lose in a 1v1 situation like bunkers are right now. Builds made to hold a node should have more CC and abilities to delay the fight but not endless strong heals and mitigation abilities.
True. Tournament game outcome depends on number of bunkers in a team in my experience. When Pug vs Pug, the team with most bunkers usually crushes the other team. When a team is premade or even just partial premade it’s even worse because they have planned team composition and communication. At this point, GW2 has the typical problem I’ve seen in every other MMO PvP I’ve tried: some builds are just worth more than others, so it’s “bring the build” not “bring the player” if you want to win.
It would be possible to use mathematics and statistics gathered from 1v1 games to balance everything. Would probably even be easier to balance than balancing teams since there are less variables per one character than per team of characters. More variables = harder balancing.
If things were statistically balanced around 1v1, it would be more like red apple vs green apple.
Proving you’re skilled should be in 1v1. Group based PvP should be just for fun and not balanced around that. Winning group based PvP proves only one thing, that you can communicate and coordinate better than the other team, not that you can play your character better than them. I’d never be interested in watching a group based esport, it’s slow and boring, but 1v1 arena type fights would be amazing to watch if balanced around that. Not only because these fights would be way more exciting, they’d also teach people how to play their profession a lot better. I’m sure a lot more people would participate in a 1v1 esport.
The damage is ridiculous in regards to the amount of utilities and escape. In other words, too easy for a mesmer to outlast anyone.
i thought it was impossible to make premade groups?
It’s very possible, and more than enough of them to be matched against each other, yet it doesn’t work like that. Free tournaments are there for premades to “practice” on pugs apparently.
These numbers are unacceptable only because it can be dumped on anyone from an opener without warning, so it doesn’t take a lot of skill. I’d have no problem with this if it required the thief to engage the fight first and having to use abilities that hit for less in order to prepare their burst. People must be given a chance to counter such high damage. As it is right now, the thief opens up on you, if you react fast he won’t kill you but you’ll be at like 20% hps so you have to go instantly on the defensive without really much of a chance to fight back. I’ll often be able to kill a bad thief with 20% hps left, but a thief that plays as good as me, absolutely no chance in hell. Just don’t take it personal when you lose to an overpowered profession.
Before they do that they need to stop matching pugs with premades. Right now leaving is more than acceptable when your pug hits a premade. Why waste your time getting farmed by a team which has both the advantages of planned team composition and communication?
OP has valid points regardless of his skills. It shouldn’t take 3 people to down a bunker, 1 person should be able to down a bunker, just slowly. Healing is too strong. On the other hand, uncounterable thief opening damage is also too high. The range to which you can be a bunker or glass cannon needs to be reduced to avoid ridiculous fights that don’t involve any player skill.
Although I find it still has way too many imbalances, I find that GW2 balance is miles ahead of balance in WoW. WoW went to kitten when they decided it took 2+ dpses to kill one healer and is the reason I quit that game. I’d bet that any game which manages good 1v1 balance and implements some sort of 1v1 arena with rankings would be an immense success. I’m sure everyone notices that opponents of the same profession as you are always seeking you out for a fight. They want to know if they’re good and need a fair match, it’s human nature to test oneself. The game company who has a great game and will exploit that human psychology trait will definitely succeed.
What? Professional athletes are always talking in sports. Just because you cant hear it on your TV doesn’t mean it isn’t happening. Have you ever played competitive sports?
I meant that the action is too fast for holding a discussion. You can talk but it would be very brief. For example, you can say “need help”, but not " hey can you please help me we will kill that guy first I do my ability A, then you do your ability B then I finish him off with ability C, got it? Yes? 1. 2. 3. Go."
Sorry to tell you but the community overall thinks that warrior is a balanced profession. I can agree on the other 2 though.
In my opinion a good esport would be one where the action takes place so fast there is no point in communication and trying to “time” things. Just every player reacting to a very fast changing environment where talking is out of the question. You don’t see players talking to each other in real sports game like hockey, soccer, rugby. You set up an initial strategy then players must be good, play well, and react fast that’s it.
If they nerf it they should speed up the baseline warrior HB attack so that it does not affect warriors as much as other already too strong professions. Warriors cannot just rob you of 80% of your hps if you know what you’re doing, unlike a thief who opens up from stealth and 2-3 shotting you making it pointless to know what you’re doing or not. I’ve seen people who were very good and had fast reaction times, had great intense and long fights with them as warrior, but when our thief came they completely kitten them. So if something available to many professions gets nerfed, the already balanced professions like warriors need a buff elsewhere.
Although I love GW2 PvP, I had hope for better 1v1 balance. I think MMO developers focus too much on group stuff while the majority of players seek a good solo play PvP experience: log on, kick some kitten and get better, log off, repeat later.
Use a shield on your second weapon set. Start the fight with your shield, fish for your opponent’s passive and reactive cooldowns. Block their burst, then switch and destroy them, never interrupt your burst because your opponent dissapeared. He will likely reappear in downed state. GS warriors require good thinking and extremely fast reaction time to play well. Granted mesmers do too much damage for their high escape and survivability, but let’s just hope it gets balanced in time, and meanwhile just don’t take it personal when you lose to one of them.
The point of PvP is what it should always have been in every game… to PvP. Having little concern of gear is absolutely fantastic in this game. I just log on and PvP because I want to PvP not because I want gear. People who PvP because they want gear should just not PvP at all. When you PvP, you PvP because you love it.
Landing a HB is not easy, most professions have passives and/or utilities so they won’t stay more than a fraction of a second in the HB. A good warrior will need to fish for the opponent’s defensive abilities, keep track of dodges and the opponent’s endurance, all the while thinking about his own survivability because it’s not that high so he needs to be extremely fast at switching to shield and blocking.
I think warriors are well balanced because their burst requires mental tracking of things, and the professions about which people most often complain should be fixed to also work like that. But people are inherently lazy and want to land big damage without the need to think much.