Guild Wars 2

My vote is no, and the primary reason is because of PU. The scepter AA design change isn’t the greatest yes, but this is the game we play and the mindset behind balance. That isn’t changing anytime soon.

But I do wonder …

If PU didn’t exist as a trait or was nerfed a bit, how many of these no votes would change to yes?

Giving up on the idea the devs can come up with something else, my vote would change to yes in that case.

Fay.2357:

Basically, the whole concept of invuln on these 3 signets makes no sense. You can’t use the heal for invuln due to losing your heal and the long cast time. Using the stun signet for invuln makes no sense because it stuns, and using the stunbreak (and blind) signet for invuln simply means you don’t need the other 2/3 of its functionality. This is why the invuln on signets trait is bad. It simply makes 0 sense.

Just a note on this comment – from watching countless play quite a bit on stream, he’s one who uses the rare signet invuln, condi cleanse traits and blurred inscriptions, but definitely makes it work. He rarely loses 1v1’s against good players. In larger fights, the signet invulns become invaluable and definitely increase survivability in my observations. The build doesn’t appeal to me, and I know the OP’s build is a bit different, but countless is an example of how playing a build using the invuln traits can work in the hands of a skillful player.

Some interesting builds. Looks like most are using standard shatter and common traits with slight variations here and there. I definitely agree with building a little more tanky for WvW to avoid getting insta-gibbed by thieves. Regarding IE, it’s actually considered meta for GS/Staff builds right now (vs illusionary invigoration). With the upcoming change to IE, shatter mesmers using staff are going to get a decent buff as well.

@ carpboy: I’ve always thought that hybrid might work with maimed to provide a semblance of “burst”. I’m also of the opinion that if celestial is taken in a build, bountiful interruption needs to be there to keep might flowing. You could easily take 4 out out of dueling and take that. You’d maintain higher might overall and your resulting conditions and mind wracks will hit much harder. To that end, I would probably switch to precise wrack. GS is an interesting choice and will stack bleeds well enough, but not much else. It’s definitely strong in shatter builds though, so let me know how that goes. I also suggest experimenting with staff.

@ mandj: Looks interesting, feel free to post at your leisure.

@ mailmail: Looks very similar to one chaos posted recently, but I think his was more shatter focused. Why take DE if you’re not shattering often?

@ windwalker: I remember thinking that was interesting. Can you post your build link?

Matt Stacey.7415:

I burst my opponents down to ~40-50% then hit shatter and immediately start summoning more phantasms.

Yeah this something easy to forget for many PvE mesmers, even when running phantasm builds.

Hamster.4861:

I run a Bountiful Shatter build, 0/4/4/0/6

Sword Pistol and Staff.

The boons, the 3300 power and the 16k 3 clone+IP shatter

I was wondering if someone was going to post this one. I’ve been testing a 0/4/4/0/6 spec but with GS/Staff. I posted recently on it here. As I mentioned in that post, the biggest issue is lack of boon strip. This may not be as crucial for WvW roaming but it’s pretty important for sPvP. Arcane Thievery is decent but unfortunately can’t replace shattered concentration. The shatter bursts with high might stacks, though – amazing. I’m hitting up to 3k ea in PvP – sounds like you’re at 4k in WvW. I’m also trying a weird retaliation spice with confusing cry and thinking about adding more interrupt spice for BI synergy. What traits do you take besides the obvious?

Xaylin.1860:

skcamow.3527:

Very niche, like the build in my signature. It will get a nice buff, really only for pug zergs.

The thing is that a 2/6/6 build with Mantras will do a way better job when it comes to the interrupt part of your build. Granted, with your specific set up you will either lose your condition removal, your stunbreaker or the ability to share boons.

Could be with the new AoE daze, will have to see how it plays.

Xaylin.1860:

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Also, the possibility of Imbued Diversion rising up? I could maybe see it.

I don’t see a great synergy between those traits. Actually, for me personally the MoD buff might have put the nail in the coffin of ID. Why torture yourself with the uncertainty of the clones actually hitting your target if you can pick a Mantra?

Very niche, like the build in my signature. It will get a nice buff, really only for pug zergs.

Yeah shattered concentration is a big loss obviously but in 1v1 AT can be better depending. Node fights you miss it a lot, but commonly you’re not trying to AoE strip (you do that RnG really), you’re trying to get boons off a specific player. Shattered concentration does this so easily and a near endless supply through shatters. AT provides some condition removal and allows you to steal what you want, when you want. If you can get fury with 20+ might, watch out.

I’ll also note it’s a lot more tanky than standard shatter due to the +200 toughness and greater access to protection/regeneration. I’m also playing with confusing cry (gasp!) in Illusions since you lose your primary reason to F2 in standard shatter, which is boon strip. Now I get retaliation out of it, which, believe it or not, can somewhat deter spammy skills. Haven’t determined if it’s totally worth giving up compounding power or precise wrack though.

Currently testing a very odd standard shatter taking 0/4/4/0/6 with fully traited manipulations and BI. 25 might stacks is real on node fights due to Chaos Storm and GS knockback. With this spread, you have the most bursty shatter you can get in a shatter build damage wise, very difficult to match in a standard shatter, but you also risk not getting interrupts to push you that high and as a result, pushing lower DPS. You lose shattered concentration but try to make up for it with arcane thievery/null field/nullification sigils as much as possible.

Using MoD in this build has some real potential, and I’ll be trying it.

What about the fact that there’s diversity in how teams can win, if coordinated properly? That’s a good thing.

Teams can 1) run with a bunker guardian and be successful (TM/TCG, to some degree 55), or 2) run with a strong hybrid sustain focus and be successful.

I don’t disagree some of the OP’s sentiments are valid and present a potential issue, but I’m looking at this more from a diversity perspective.

Add the upcoming feature pack and the landscape will evolve further. I know it’s salt in the wound at this point, but we also have no idea what the guardian/necro changes will be, which could (or not) vault their position in comps further.

This guide contains the best dungeon builds to run for mesmer currently:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Guide-How-To-Mesmer-in-Dungeons

Wyrden.4713:

the illusionary elsticity will help ur gs2 to hit one more time on a single target resulting in a 1-3k extra dmg for burst

It behaves that way currently

Levetty.1279:

skcamow.3527:

(don’t tell me this isn’t a buff).

Its a bug fix.

2 years into the game we shouldn’t be excited and thanking them for bug fixes.

Take what I said in a further post to put it into further context.

skcamow.3527:

Depends on how you look at it. To me, ileap was bugged and they decided to just re-work it. The re-worked iLeap, to me, is a buff. Reverting the nerf would be great, but most people I’ve seen (that actually run sword) are figuring out how to work with it.

More condition spam is certainly not needed, but it seems this is the game we play and most professions can do it decently with basic attacks on weapons deemed “condition” by Anet. Apparently this is what Anet wants to do with mesmer, in spite of the fact that in the past they wanted scepter to be more of a support weapon. I thought that was great, but this is what they came up with.

I’d rather them come up with something else. The last thing I want is even more QQ about PU and condition mesmer in general and I believe that would happen with this change. But if torment has to be a thing with scepter, I’d rather see it retained as described on the mesmer’s AA, but not on the scepter clone AA’s.

Also for those that aren’t aware, during the RU skill bar, helseth was able to get Karl’s attention in saying this change was OP and would result in bad things. Karl said “noted”. So the devs are aware. If we are loud enough, we probably have sway to change their minds on the implementation of their torment idea, but I’m guessing likely not the function itself.

Martin Kerstein.3071:

One Note Chord.5031:

I might take the under for a day, until we discover the new bugs.

It’s probably too optimistic to think the feature patch will actually address any of these, though.

On the contrary! I talked to one of our developers, and there are a lot of Mesmer bug fixes that will be deployed with the Feature Pack. I do not have the full list yet, keep an eye out for the update notes once the Feature Pack goes live.

Martin, a previous developer detailed which of the bugs in our old compiled list was intended behavior versus actual bugs. This was extremely helpful.

Would it be possible to get someone to take a quick crack at our current list to do this?

Depends on how you look at it. To me, ileap was bugged and they decided to just re-work it. The re-worked iLeap, to me, is a buff. Reverting the nerf would be great, but most people I’ve seen (that actually run sword) are figuring out how to work with it.

Overall, the coming changes are good for mesmer, not sure where you’re coming from on a few of those points.

• Shatter (power): standard build buffed considerably. iLeap for sword users (don’t tell me this isn’t a buff). Mind Stab and the bug fix to IE are nice DPS increases for shatter as well.
• Shatter (condi): Buffed, slightly with maimed but adding scepter AA into the mix, it’s going to be interesting.
• Lockdown: We’re already strong. We aren’t lacking that much here, but they did give us AoE on the daze mantra. I’d consider that a win.
• PvE/WvW: The AoE mantra additions and triumphant distortion make for excellent buffs in those formats.

The only fishy thing in the new announcements is the scepter AA in relation to PU. That’s the piece that’s questionable and going to get the most griefing over.

Maybe it’s the changes they’re making don’t agree with where you feel mesmer should go. That’s another story altogether, but I think it’s pretty clear we are getting some nice buffs for our most common build types.

Curunen.8729:

Nothing that makes me feel like playing again.

Scepter torment AA and iElasticity working on staff clones – PU condition builds will now be absolutely more prevalent and disgusting to fight. At least shatter condition will be helped.

ileap buff is ok, but I take it there will be an ICD on Swap or something to balance this? And the problem here is the clone blinking at the target means easy to instantly kill and lose the Swap. I dunno – nice to see it finally changes to get rid of horrible pathing, but still encouraging mindless 3->3 without waiting/baiting.

Mind stab buff is nice. Don’t expect iwarden fix to work.

So in a nutshell – PU condition and shatter condition buffed, ileap partially remedied, nothing else noteworthy?

iLeap will work as it is today with the same short delay between leap/swap. Karl demonstrated it on stream.

Mantra AoE for pain/daze, Mimic re-work, Maimed torment gets 6s base versus 4 and triumphant distortion grants phantasms 1s distortion on every summon in addition to the current functionality.

Another build getting a nice buff is my utility wizard. IE + scepter torment on AA + iWarden fixes (crossing fingers). Build is already decent but going to be strong after the patch.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

MANTRA OF DISTRACTION
IS A FREAKIN FIVE TARGET AOE!

---

The build in my signature gets an immense buff
I can’t wait.

Sagat.3285:

skcamow.3527:

• Scepter: If PU condi wasn’t so powerful to begin with, I might not mind this buff. But given PU condi is for the most part faceroll, this change doesn’t make any sense. Yeah there are other non-PU condi builds one can and will play, but certainly Anet has to take the meta condition build into consideration when balancing things like this.

Am I the only that thinks some PU mesmers might try shatter condition now???

We’ll see more folks trying out the buffed maimed, but maimed w/scepter still won’t be as good as PU w/scepter, though will make maimed builds much stronger. I honestly don’t think the buff to maimed was that great. Better than it is now yes, but they needed to add intensity, not duration IMO.

Warlord of Chaos.7845:

Hmm daze mantra is aoe now. Well this makes things interesting and im going to have a LOT of fun with that

Yup. This will be mandatory to find a place on my chillruption build utility bar. I’m drooling at the halting strike damage from both Imbued and this in pug zerg battles.

• Scepter: If PU condi wasn’t so powerful to begin with, I might not mind this buff. But given PU condi is for the most part faceroll, this change doesn’t make any sense. Yeah there are other non-PU condi builds one can and will play, but certainly Anet has to take the meta condition build into consideration when balancing things like this.
• Mantras: Saw mantra of pain AoE coming. Really surprised they so willingly gave us AoE on daze mantra.
• iLeap: Amazing.
• Mind Stab: Sure, why not?
• Triumphant Distortion: Great WvW and potential PvE buff if it’s distortion on all phant summons, but 1s may not be long enough.
• Maimed: 6s better than 4s, but pretty sure it still won’t make it viable in higher end play.
• Mimic: Interesting, though the long CD might be a deterrent.

skcamow.3527:

If they promise bug fixes in a feature pack release again … Bad Day

Yep, two of the updates were about bug fixes (IE for clones and iWarden). Though for both, I’ll still believe it when I see it. Both have been promised before.

If they promise bug fixes in a feature pack release again … Bad Day

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Added to the OP

You guys still use lyssa with this build?

mikeew.8607:

Again what is the build Rytlock is using please.

It’s the standard 4/4/6 lockdown spec using chaotic interruption.

@Guapo, you have full guilds. You’ll need to drop one in order for us to send an invite.

Invites sent, welcome!

Just FYI, we don’t have a role for “All”.

Feel free to choose a role that is right for you. If you don’t specify a role, one will not be assigned. You can PM me here or in game if you want a role assigned.

Reserved for glorious shatter exploits

PU Shatter (Daniel Handler)
Support Shatters (Chaos Archangel)

Shatter – Our most popular and effective mesmer mechanic. There are so many ways to strategically land shatters and even more methods at our disposal to utilize them uniquely.

It’s a foregone conclusion that most agree many of our shatter traits leave much to be desired, but I have to believe that isn’t stopping many of you from running builds that highlight some of these traits. To that end, I would love to know 1) Are you running a shatter build 2) What style are you running, and 3) How do you implement it strategically? Note I’m especially interested in hearing about builds that fill a very specific or niche role in a team, but also want to hear any other cases!

I know there are some obvious builds, take for example the tried and true, always there for you, never to be outclassed traditional 4/4/0/0/6 shatter. It’s likely no other shatter build (or ANY build for that matter) will outshine it’s effectiveness in our PvP game. Many guides have been written in support of it and most top mesmer PvP players use it.

I mention the traditional build because I think it speaks for itself on usage and strategy and is well documented in an overall sense by Supcutie and other great guides by Osicat, Vash and Jurica

It’s no secret that shatter mesmers are closely married to their traits. Shatters without traits are pretty much useless. But what do our traits allow us to do with shatters? We can inflict conditions, cleanse conditions, strip boons, gain boons and heal ourselves. That’s quite a bit of diversity in effects and applications. Let’s spell them out:

• Rending Shatter. Shattering illusions inflicts vulnerability on nearby foes. Does anyone use this??
• Shattered Concentration. Shatter skills also remove a boon on hit. One of our strongest PvP support traits.
• Bountiful Disillusionment. Gain boons each time a shatter skill is used. Not a bad premise but commonly referred to as underpowered. Still, any uses?
• Restorative Illusions. Heal a small amount when you shatter illusions. Any support mesmers running this?
• Shattered Conditions. Using a shatter skill removes a condition from you and allies around you. Very powerful, but niche?
• Vigorious Revelation. Shattering illusions grants vigor to nearby allies. A powerful, solid support trait for an adept offering.
• Illusionary Retribution. All Shatter skills inflict confusion. Minor trait, very powerful in the good old days before the confusion nerf in WvW. Is this still used as a focus in a build?
• Shattered Strength. Shattering illusions grants you might per illusion. Minor trait, a staple of the traditional shatter build.
• Maimed the Disillusioned. Enemies hit by shatter skills are inflicted with torment. Can be decent in a condition build, but harbors much untapped potential.
• Illusionary Persona. Shattering illusions creates the shatter effect on you as well. The grand-daddy. The one that completes us as mesmers. There is no equal mesmer trait.

Looking over our build sticky, I find very few shatter builds. I’m sure that’s for a reason, but I have to believe some of you are doing wild things with shatter. Maybe you haven’t posted before or maybe you’re a vet on the forums, but if you’ve been playing shatter for a long period of time in ANY game format and have a specific use and strategy for it, I’d love to know. I don’t care if you’ve seen thread after thread debunking these traits. I’ve posted in many of them, but everyone is susceptible to tunnel vision. This isn’t about build criticism. If it works for you and you’ve been at it for awhile, feel free to share. I’d like to keep a running list of uniquely utilized shatter builds.

Happy Shattering!

Some good suggestions, many of which have been echoed at one time or another on the forums. My thoughts:

• Empowering Mantras: I don’t agree with that one – I think it needs to stay separate with the damage modifiers, as it’s really one of the only ways to boost raw damage by percentages with mesmer. The PvE crowd needs that xD. I have some suggestions on this one though, below.
• Power Block: While I like your suggestion and was the behavior of the “bugged” mechanic when it was released, I don’t see it happening (even with the ICD). I think Pyro had a great suggestion a few days back on this trait but I can’t find it at the moment.
• Harmonious Mantras: I like the idea of merging some of the mantra traits, and doing it the way you suggested would probably be too powerful. I think the damage modifiers should remain with EM. More detail below.
• Furious Interruption: Good suggestion – I think just boosting the quickness interval to 5s and lowering the ICD to 10s would create something rather interesting to play with. This would really reward interrupt play.
• Triumphant Distortion: I think if they just remove the ICD as promised before release, this trait would be pretty amazing.
• Chaotic Interruption: There have been lots of forum discussion on how this could be improved due to proc’d effects stomping each other. I think the best way to improve this is leave immobilize as-is, remove the cripple condition and extend either blind or chill by 1 or 2 seconds.
• PU: Probably fine.
• Bountiful Disillusionment: I’m not too hip on the 10% MI proc, BUT I do like the idea of illusion generation. Maybe generate an illusion upon each shatter, so along with the boons you get, you also pop a clone. That would possibly make this worth taking without DE. In addition, I think they need to re-work the boon distribution still – they need buffed a bit.
• Shattered Conditions/Restorative Illusions: I like the idea of combining these two into a new GM trait would definitely make it more enticing. Honestly, I’m still unsure how much use this would get due to the shatter requirement. On the other hand, I think a minor tweak of moving shattered conditions to the master tree would make it more available to take in a shatter support build. IP+DE+this trait? Um, yeah I see some good stuff there.
• Disruptor’s Sustainment: Remove the ICD and let it stack in duration and that’d be a good start. I think your heal recharge idea also has merit.
• Glamours Denial: Interesting idea but it sounds really powerful, probably too powerful. The mesmer hate would be immense in WvW, probably worse than the original glamour/confusion days.
• IP: Yep, good as-is
• Imbued Diversion: I would rather this trait reduce the recharge of diversion by 20% overall, plus make mantra of distraction AoE in nature.
• Maimed: Good suggestion.

Mantra re-work. I think to effectively update the GM mantra traits, you take into consideration the others. Here’s my take I posted in another thread:

• Empowering Mantras: Increase to 5% damage for each readied mantra.
  More of a PvE change, but would help build diversity in that 1) only take a couple but still gain a nice 10% damage boost or 2) you can go full ham mantras for maximum damage.
• Harmonious Mantras: Decrease channeling time by one second. Gain fury for 5s after a successful mantra channel.
  This would be a great buff for mantra builds while providing mesmer with fury, something they do not have access to unless wielding staff or taking runes that provide it.
• Mantra Mastery: Reduced recharge on mantras. Mantras can be activated three times before needing channeled again.
  This would need moved back to the master tree. The recent move to adept to provide increased build diversity didn’t work because mantras inherently have short recharges, making the trait not worth taking. Adding the three charges along with the reduces recharge makes this trait a viable competitor to DE.
• Protected Mantras: Gain toughness and stability while channeling mantras.
  This is currently a master trait with only the toughness given (ridiculous considering what is competing for this trait). Add stability, maybe decrease the toughness a bit and move it back to Adept.

Hm … I may have to go in after him.

The ready up shows are almost always at noon pacific.

Definitely think they’re talking about damaging conditions, especially considering the beta behavior of the AA. Doubtful they go back to that, but who knows.

New Poll:
“Will Bountiful Disillusionment and Disruptor’s Sustainment now warrant the time it takes to actually read the tooltip?”

Chaos Archangel.5071:

For this update, we’re looking at improving multiple traits, utility skills, weapon skills, and illusions.

Oh hell, this feature patch is coming out in 2016.

Da salt has finally caught up with you.

Kelthien.8593:

From the Feature Pack site:

Mesmer

The mesmer has seen adjustments in a few areas. For this update, we’re looking at improving multiple traits, utility skills, weapon skills, and illusions. We’ve taken a look at some of the new grandmaster traits and improved upon their original implementation. We’ve altered the scepter a bit, pushing it more toward the condition role we would like it to have. In addition, you’ll see some awesome improvements to offensive mantras and a rework of the Mimic skill, which will now copy all boons on your target to yourself.

Here’s to hoping for our long discussed mantra of pain AoE. I can almost taste it.
Mimic … ALL boons. My My. Complete re-work.

All invites from jdlawhorn and on have been sent (quite a few). saventis has full guilds, so I cannot invite until one is freed up.

I know Pyro has moved on but many of us still play and rep the guild from time to time. I will try to better keep an eye on this thread in the future.

I’m of the opinion MoD is strong as-is with the 5s internal CD. As it is, mesmer has full capabilities through a few different build setups to chain daze/stun/root opponents. MoD is a big part of that. An instant cast daze is incredibly strong. Any stronger and it’d be too powerful.

StickerHappy.8052:

Just make 3 charges by default for mantras, it would be a good buff then change Harmonious mantras to diff effect maybe reduce chanelling time by 1 sec.

I would agree to buff harmonious mantras by reducing the channel time along with providing the current 3 charges. I think 3 charges by default would be a bit too strong. My mantra ideas:

• Empowering Mantras: Increase to 5% damage for each readied mantra.
  More of a PvE change, but would help build diversity in that 1) only take a couple but still gain a nice 10% damage boost or 2) you can go full ham mantras for maximum damage.
• Harmonious Mantras: Decrease channeling time by one second. Gain fury for 5s after a successful mantra channel.
  This would be a great buff for mantra builds while providing mesmer with fury, something they do not have access to unless wielding staff or taking runes that provide it.
• Mantra Mastery: Reduced recharge on mantras. Mantras can be activated three times before needing channeled again.
  This would need moved back to the master tree. The recent move to adept to provide increased build diversity didn’t work because mantras inherently have short recharges, making the trait not worth taking. Adding the three charges along with the reduces recharge makes this trait a viable competitor to DE.
• Protected Mantras: Gain toughness and stability while channeling mantras.
  This is currently a master trait with only the toughness given (ridiculous considering what is competing for this trait). Add stability, maybe decrease the toughness a bit and move it back to Adept.
• Restorative Mantras: Leave as-is.

Make Mantra of Pain AoE by default. If this is too OP, reduce the damage a tad to balance out.

Further on MoD, I’ve stated this before but Imbued Diversion needs a buff to 1) Reduce recharge of Diversion by 20% and 2) Make MoD AoE.

Now all of our mantras are AoE capable by some means or another, greatly increasing build diversity and viability in all areas of the game.

Fay.2357:

Ross Biddle.2367:

Syprus Soulslayer.1640:

Veruah.5302:

Darkheller.6437:

PU is for noobs

I give this argument a 10/10. Well said, good sir.

Fay does bring up a good point though obviously in the hands of a skilled player PU is simply OP and you’ll survive longer. I’m secretly hoping they nerf the trait to bring it back into line with our other traits ( while buffing other areas of course )

Wait wait wait, so you want them to bring PU in line with our other, under powered, worthless, never worth bothering to take, grandmaster traits? Which is what you just said.

I can see it now…..

Prismatic Understanding

Reduces the cooldown on stealth-providing skills by 1 second. Mesmer gains a random boon when entering stealth: 3s of retaliation, 3s of regeneration, or 3s of swiftness.

OP

salarasul.4190:

hi, since i love reading suggestion threds i saw people talking aboud a "skills bar " upcoming, and i wonderd what this is? is it a new feature? or are skills getting reworked?

It’s what Anet is titling their feature on future class skill and balance changes. It occurs as part of the bi-weekly Ready Up shows.

MSFone.3026:

I think the whole bouncing projectile thing needs to go, given how slow it is and how illusionary elasticity doesn’t work on illusions. If it’s going to be homing why not just have it hit instantly, like GS clones etc? For the “but no counter play!” crowd just put a big attack animation on it. It can take as long as you want to cast the attack, but once it does it hits unless dodged (no walking out of the way).

IE works on the iMage, just not staff clones casting WoC (not sure if that’s what you meant).

Neptune.2570:

How has this not been stickied yet?

I’ve personally tried by reporting this thread (that’s the official “approved” method to request one). I and presumably many others did so with the dungeon sticky and that one made it.

I imagine that either 1) not enough people have reported this thread to request the sticky or 2) there has been enough exposure of this thread but the mods do not feel it should be stickied for whatever reason.

I’ll do my best to get us to 40 …

Pretty sure this is still an issue:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Bug-Validation-Clone-condition-duration

Need validation though.

As a mesmer who still wishes to mesmer in WvW, in zergs I run my chillruption build with signet of inspiration to share all the might. Cooldowns between the three AoE interrupts are about 12 seconds apart, which isn’t too bad. There’s always room for veil (bleh) if absolutely necessary but I never use it.

Never would I say this is the best build to play in WvW – it’s heavily RnG based and you don’t always hit your imbued diversion bomb. At the end of the day though, it’s what I play because it’s a lot of fun and that’s what it’s about.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

Er.. quick question. I’m using MSI Afterburner to record, and I play on much higher quality than the videos are coming out. Does anyone else use this program and know a fix?

It’s in the configuration. Settings > Video capture. Set the Frame size to whatever you want to record at. I do 1080p but you can go lower depending on your hardware capabilities. Also I set the quality to 60% because 100% really slows things down and you can’t notice enough of a difference anyway. This helps the frame rate immensely.

Chaos Archangel.5071:

-snip-

Embrace debate!

On daze duration – as I originally reported in a thread and frifox further validated, currently the daze duration extension by CS is bugged in a few skills:

• Does not increase duration of Mantra of Distraction, Diversion, and Chaos Storm dazes yet does increase daze duration of Counter Blade, which has same base duration as the other 3.
• Increases daze duration of both Magic Bullet and Counter Blade by 58%, not 25% as tooltip suggests.

The counter blade daze would certainly contribute to what you’re experiencing in a bugged daze extension. I suppose though that if Anet fixes these bugs, it would closely even out. So you’re looking at a maximum of 1.5 seconds dazes from counter blade and MoD. So with that chain you’ll be looking at a potential chain lockdown of 6 seconds (spread out a bit due to MoD cooldown).

Now with CI, if you take traveler’s runes with 30% condition duration, only one of those interrupts nets a 2.5 second immobilize. You can chain that same exact scenario for a potential 10 seconds with less adverse affect from MoD’s internal cooldown. When you add the potential blinds/chills, they’re wrecked.

Keep in mind you’re blowing all your lockdown cooldowns as well with this rotation which is generally OK for 1v1, but something to consider. The point there is that you can inflict similar havoc with almost half as much skill expenditure using CI. And this is only in PvP.

In WvW, CI wins with no contest due to the ability to extend condition duration. With CS, you can’t extend daze duration anymore than you can in PvP. Getting 100% condition duration is not difficult (see stickerhappy’s thread), so even if someone is running lemongrass poulty food, you’ve still got 60% condition duration, doubling what you have in PvP, worst case.

A final note, taking racial skills out of consideration – with CS you have a maximum of three lockdown sources across most weapon sets except a couple that have to involve staff and sword or pistol OH. With CI you can have up to four across all weapon sets, and if you for some reason took nightmare runes or mirror of anguish, you could potentially have six.

My more elaborate take on this -

CI is better than CS for the following reasons:

The proc method – CS requires a daze to proc. CI requires an interrupt to proc. Thus there are more overall ways to proc CI than CS due to dazes + pushes/pulls:

• Daze: Can proc CI and CS.
• Push: Can proc CI. Cannot proc CS.
• Pull: Can proc CI. Cannot proc CS.
• Stun: Can proc CI. Cannot proc CS. (Granted the CI proc on stun is in large part useless).

Build diversity – It’s more expansive with CI due to the numerous methods to proc the trait. With CS you are locked into weapon sets that inflict daze.

Duration of effects -There is a large contrast between the two traits. With CS, you have a short daze followed by a short RnG stun. With CI based on conditions, you can extend these much longer and potentially have a greater effect.

Expounding on CS – you have to consider what you’re trying to accomplish by taking it. Do you want the interrupt? The extra daze duration? No, what you want is the stun. That’s the power in the trait above all else. The stun shuts them down completely (CS) versus rooting them (CI). Great, but how do you get the stun? You have to daze and then have a 50% chance to proc the stun. What if you don’t get the stun? Your opponent can’t use skills yes, but they can still move and most importantly, dodge. So that’s quite a bit of effort to try and get a stun to get the most out of the trait. However, IF you proc the stuns, the results can be devastating.

Expounding on CI – again an interrupt is all that’s needed. Just your skilled (or lucky) interrupt and all the beauty of the trait shines in front of you. No fluff, but some RnG in the occasional lucky interrupt. If you get the interrupt, the resulting immobilize still allows them to use skills, but they can’t move and can’t dodge. That in and of itself is enough to land your burst. The three additional soft cc’s are just icing at that point.

My conclusion is that if you can get the stun procs from CS, it’s at least as good as CI or better. But the RnG nature of CS, less triggers we have to proc it and the shorter duration of its effects as compared to CI make it inferior.

In the past there has been (and probably still is) much experimentation between 6 in domination with confounding suggestions versus 6 in chaos for chaotic interruption. Much of that is contained in the lockdown thread and CI thread (first link):

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/The-Lockdown-Mesmer-Thread/first

The general consensus is usually that CI is better and the reason is the immobilize. The other cover conditions are icing, especially the chill, but that’s not the reason to take it.

StickerHappy.8052:

Veruah.5302:

snip

But thats the same scenario, you only get the endurance regen decrease on weakness because fumble would be useless if the target is immobilized

Not necessarily, targets can still attack and use skills while immobilized.

Esplen.3940:

No 2/3/0/5/4?

Compared Builds:

• 2/4/0/0/4
• 2/4/0/5/3
• 2/3/0/5/4
• 5/4/0/5/0

He’s got it listed there. First one is a typo though.