Guild Wars 2

MysticHLE.7160:

A beta test server would be good. There have been way too many bugs in the past that seemed so obvious that it should have never passed QA into production. If you can’t catch them, then let us help – but without ruining the game play for everyone else in the live servers when buggy content is deployed.

This would help a lot.

Another big thing I think people struggle with is knowing what is actually a bug and knowing what is intended functionality. I wonder how many bugs we could take off the list if we knew it was “working as designed”. Of course, “working as designed” in that case could spawn more discussion, but it would at least alleviate some confusion.

This is our latest response to all known bugs. He says in their dev environment it’s sometimes hard to duplicate a problem because it’s constantly changing. I wonder if they’ve fully been able to duplicate everything that’s been stated in this iZerker thread. It’s hard to imagine not, but who knows what they’re seeing.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/support/bugs/The-forum-bug-process

First, what an interesting project – hope it goes well for you and I’ll be interested to hear progress as you make it.

My thought on the title – looks like you were going off the Chaos trait “Decent into Madness” with the “Tome of Madness: A Mesmer Guide”

Kinda combining your two titles, how about "“Decent into Chaos: A Mesmer Guide”

Agreed the 30% damage modifier seems to not be sinking in though many have spoken about it.
@Nemesis, I posted a 10/30/0/25/5 build yesterday in this thread, and DuckDuckBOOM suggested the same trait setup. Here is the link:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Defining-the-glass-cannon-mesmer/first#post2188377

Use the same gear you have for your nuker, but use these traits/utilities. Try it with the duelist, warden, iZerker, and Warlock to compare. Doing this you will at least be able to get a good idea of the damage potential. Or, even better, take this build or Pyro’s into a dungeon with a party and you’ll see it’s intended use.

Neat build and I like the thought and testing you put into it. A couple thoughts. First I think you mean to say Mirror Images, not Sharper Images.

Second, not taking masterful reflection seems like a tragedy to me. Do you really need deceptive evasion with so much clone generation from sword, staff and mirror images? Removing that gets you the best of both worlds in Illusionary Invigoration AND Masterful Reflection in Illusions, plus more decreased cool down on your shatters (F4 being your concern).

Another suggestion for situational use would be to switch out blink for Signet of Illusions, far reaching manipulations(I) for blade training(IV) and then use blurred inscriptions(VIII) for your master trait in dueling. It’s yet another way to get immediate access to distortion/reflection. It’s versatile since you can do that without re-traiting.

Agreed, I don’t spec into healing power for mantras, but I definitely believe it’s worth it for regeneration, especially if you’re 20 or 30 into inspiration and support focused. Regeneration from phantasms at that high clip is extremely useful.

Ansau.7326:

For Restorative Mantras this coefficient is 0,2. So to heal just 100 more you need 500 + in healing power. As you can see, investing in healing to upgrade restorative mantras is not worth.

For regeneration boon is even worst, since its coefficient is just 0,125.

True, the co-efficient for regen is worse, but the net effect of increased healing power provides steady increases in healing per second and justifiable. For only 500 healing power, you get 63 additional regen ticks per second for a total of 192/sec which is noticeable for survivability. At 960 it’s 250/sec. Very useful in support builds.

I used to run with 500 healing power with a phantasm/mantra build and it provided nice balance between damage and healing.

Sad to see such an inspiring player go. Thanks for all your contributions. Certainly hope to see you around these parts again! Peace

Nemesis.8593:

skcamow.3527:

@Nemesis – I did read the theory behind why you created the build. Have you tried to compare the damage you can do with a phantasm build versus the build you posted, in full glass gear? You might be surprised at the phantasm DPS. Then you’d get the utility we’re speaking of with the high DPS. When speaking of “tanky”, I just mean geared with a little more toughness versus full zerker. You can still retain high DPS doing this.

What do you mean by “the phantasm build”… cause in this build i use phantasms, link me and i’ll put it to the test, i have all the gear…

The general rules still apply i think… if you take away power or crit chance or crit damage in favor of toughness or vitality, you can’t possibly get more damage, and if you do… it will get nerfed, or the power side will get buffed, and if not… everyone will start to use it.

That applies to all builds, all classes, all games… you can never have balance if something has it all.

Pyro’s build is excellent, though I use different kind of build with no mantra heals. If you want them you have to decide you aren’t using warden reflects which isn’t recommended in most cases. I also use pistol and warden phantasms which provide excellent damage. The gear/food choices ensure high DPS. With feedback/warden reflects and null field/condition cleansing combo finishers and of course TW, you provide nice utility:
http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/mesmer/?4.0|c.1g.h1l.d.1g.h2|b.1g.h19.a.1g.h1|1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1n.a7.1g.a7.1g.a7|1g.67.1i.67.1i.67.1i.67.1i.67.1i.67|a3.u249.0.p28.5|3a.2|33.38.39.3d.3q|e

Many don’t favor the scepter but it works fine if you turn off AA and use #2 and #3. Main reason to take Sc/P is to switch to it to get off a quick duelist, #3, #2 if necessary and switch back to Sw/F.

Edit: I will say I used to use GS+Sw/F, but since iZerker has been bugged, I went with Sc/P. If using GS take 10 out of dueling (keeping II and XI) and take GS CD trait in dom.

Pyroatheist.9031:

@skcamow: You are right of course, there are a couple situations where FULL glass cannon mesmer is appropriate. Unfortunately, full mantra nuker is not. In CoF p1 especially, you are expected to have feedback to protect the party in several fights, as well as signet of inspiration, to double might stacks and fury duration. Those two things are significantly more useful to the party than a bit more damage from mantras.

Agreed, sorry for the confusion – in PvE I always run a phantasm build, especially in CoF p1. I believe when folks want full berserker/glass there it’s usually shatter or could be a glassy geared phantasm build (though I would never run that). I was more speaking of the PvP aspect for the mantra nuker.

@Nemesis – I did read the theory behind why you created the build. Have you tried to compare the damage you can do with a phantasm build versus the build you posted, in full glass gear? You might be surprised at the phantasm DPS. Then you’d get the utility we’re speaking of with the high DPS. When speaking of “tanky”, I just mean geared with a little more toughness versus full zerker. You can still retain high DPS doing this.

Nemesis.8593:

In my eyes glass cannon builds are selfish by default… if they had tanking capabilities/support capabilities. Well… then we’ll have it all then, no reason to play anything else.

Which is really the point we’re all trying to make … we do have a tanky support damage dealing monster of a build in the basic phantasm build which can be effective at range, that makes so much more sense to run than a build like this in a PvE or dungeon scenario.

Pyroatheist.9031:

Nemesis.8593:

Agony.3542:

A mantra build? Really?
Sorry but this kind of build is really ineffective.
You have no access to any reflection (the thing that makes mesmer so strong in PvE… cough cough). Sure you can get rid of a mantra for it, but you defently can’t get wardens feedback with this build. Also you wont get access to reduced glamour cd (more feedbacks /hooray), feedback on rez, condition remove on heal.
Mesmers are not picked for their direct damage. You rarely see more than one mesmer in a really good group. One is enough, since he already brings a kitten ton of utility.
GS is not a good main weapon choice when it comes to Dungeons. Fotm? Idk, I can imagine that you often have to resort to ranged combat in high level Fractals, but thats not a good enough excuse to make GS your general main weapon.
Mesmers have a lot of surviveability due to blurred frenzy, perma vigor, distrotion shatters and so on. Sword MH has a higher damage output than GS, you are also able to melee most of the Dungeon content if you use your brain.

When you say really ineffective, what are you referring to ? Cause it does seem to do more damage then any other “more effective” support type build.

As i go down and answer all the feedback that i have received, you’ll understand a bit of where i am coming from.

In theory it does more damage. However, no-one cares. You have 0 team utility with his build. In fact, you just have 0 utility at all. The single thig you can possibly do is damage, and your damage still won’t be higher than a phantasm build in some cases, you have almost no access to reflects which will allow you to push your damage far beyond what is commonly possible.

People bring mesmers in parties because they can do good damage while providing reflects, aoe heals, boon stripping, aoe condition removal, boon sharing, aoe regen, and some of the best survivability of any class. Your build has none of that. It has damage. No-one cares about a full damage Mesmer

Generally agreed, but I would say there are certain circumstances where a full zerker glass mesmer is desired and warranted, e.g. CoF p1 and maybe a few others. In those cases, running a mantra nuker build is fine, but this build has to do away with the halting strike trait which is currently worthless. I use one of these two builds in Fay’s build list when I actually run mantra nuker (which isn’t that often): https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-MANTRA-NUKER.

But more often than ever not, a phantasm build going 25 into inspiration is arguably the best PvE build you can play for mesmer. I run 10/30/0/25/5. Even with the +250 healing power and vitality, you’re still dealing so much damage from the extra 30% phantasm damage. You have to account for those damage modifiers when comparing damage for damage with the mantra build. I’ve run both builds in numerous non-fractal dungeons and the damage is typically even, if not edged out by the phantasm build. PLUS with the phantasm build I always run null field and feedback, in addition to the warden reflects. You can’t beat that type of damage/utility hybrid and the flexibility to change to other extremely useful inspiration traits when needed.

In WvW/PvP, your build and general mantra nuker builds are ok for specific uses, but are very selfish in nature, decent primarily for 1v1. But if talking about PvE/dungeons, this build is rarely chosen over the other viable mesmer builds out there.

hm I thought you couldn’t get protection from chaos armor originating from a combo finisher …

wiki says it bounces twice (hitting three targets), with preference to allies. I assume it should bounce three times with IE traited but have never tested it.

How about swapping one of your sigils with a sigil of purity or generosity? Can’t tell exactly what your stats are but you obviously have some precision due to the 20 in dueling and although these sigils don’t provide on demand condi removal, they at least provide something.

It was the last question asked and Sharp said he would go back to his desk and check on it.

Does anyone know any of the folks who host the state of the game that could put a bug (pun intended) in their ear to ask about this issue on today’s call?

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/pvp/State-of-the-Game-May-31-1PM-Pacific

I see a few mesmers have posted in that thread but it’s 3 pages strong and may not get noticed.

I’ve not played the build in PvP but but the block in each weapon set would be nice. You sacrifice the speed boost w/focus but if you use blink that can help. You could always trait 10 into Chaos and get the increased manipulation cool down trait to use blink more often. I like your condition removal idea but remember you have the condition cleanse via mantra of resolve (unless you’re not taking that mantra, of course). Then you are free to go 10 in Illusions or Chaos.

The 4th mantra will give you that extra 4% damage but I find I’d rather have the movement in battle using blink. If you don’t need blink, by all means go for the 4th mantra. Not sure which mantras you’re using but all of them provide distinct advantages – pick the one that best suits your setup.

You do get the precision bonus with a sword in each weapon set so yeah you could configure it that way as djtool suggested.

IE for iMage is fixed now though. So now all phantasm/clone attacks that bounce work with IE except staff clones right? Is this now a statement saying they don’t intend for it to work with WoC clones, or just continue to wait?

Just tested all this behavior.
WoC from clones bounce once to the nearest ally (including himself).
If IE is traited, WoC bounces twice only for you. Clones still bounce only once.
If IE is traited, iMage bounces twice. Target gets 3 confusion stacks and 2 closest allies receive retaliation. If 2 targets are closer than you, the extra bounce applies confusion to the 2nd target and you get retaliation. If there are 3 targets closer than any ally, those three targets get confusion. This appears fixed!
Mirror Blade bounces once and hits a clone/phantasm if they are closer than you to the target. Clones/Phantasms get the might stacks.
For good measure, I tested iZerker. Still hits usually twice, occasionally once.

You’re right, I did some testing and the 3 sec protection on regen trait, chaos armor and boons from the signet of inspiration only affect you. Phantasms don’t receive those boons at all. But they do receive all boons from a chaos storm, for example, and boon duration appears to affect them.

Somehow they would randomly get regeneration too, but I couldn’t tell if it corresponded to something that happened to me since I have perma-regen. I wonder if they are getting it from the 10 secs when you reach 75% health?

For some reason I was under the impression that phantasms share your boons in a general sense which obviously isn’t the case.

It’s cake for me to stack up 30-40 seconds of regeneration in a fight that lasts more than 15-20 seconds with the build I’m testing. Definitely not a point to be overlooked, and further the other boons I believe come into play, most importantly to me for the phantasms, protection. Retaliation is pretty easy to keep up, especially if using sword/focus but protection is not as easy. I’m testing out 3 dwayna runes and 3 earth runes so I can keep regen and protection uptime as high as possible (this on top of 30% boon duration). I’ve not fully tested the protection/other boons duration, planning to do so today unless someone else reports back.

On the Giver’s gear, I hear you but I was only suggesting armor and I believe the stat line is major: toughness, minor: healing power, minor: boon duration. Agreed anything with MF you don’t want. I think the trinkets may be what you’re thinking on that – the snowflake stuff. Even then, may not be worth an extra 5% boon duration to give up quite a bit of power from the cleric’s gear.

Also, since you’re not probably shattering as much due to ditching deceptive evasion, what about doing away with Insp III and go with mender’s purity or persisting images? Is that AoE vigor that important versus the other boons you are consistently stacking (Vigor likely being one of them) with your boon storm?

Chaos Archangel.5071:

I’m thinking of getting an alternate set of gear (perhaps Power/Precision/Toughness or Berzerkers.. or something with +Toughness as the main stat) with full Boon Duration to compare the effectiveness. It’ll be a sacrifice on regen and wouldn’t use Mantras, but that may not be such a bad thing (Thinking signet of illusions & iDefender in its place)

Yeah I think that’s a perfect choice. I’m also rolling with some Knight’s weapons and was why I suggested a dip in HP to get some of your damage/toughness stats up a bit higher. Maybe you could try Giver’s armor with Knight weapons. Giver’s “gives”, (ha) toughness as a main stat along with healing power and 1% boon duration per piece, but you do sacrifice power for it (in your case). You’ll have to see if it’s worth it for the extra boon duration; may or may not. Maybe go five pieces of armor for 5% boon duration and keep cleric’s on the coat.

Also the iDefender is a great choice as well as Sig of Ill. Anything that will help keep your phantasms up is good. I’m doing the same, though really fretting sacrificing blink for Sig of Ill (I already use Sig of Insp).

Do you still use runes of dwayna (you mentioned variants)?

Interesting. That’s almost exactly the same build I’m putting together, which is somewhat like a close sibling to yours, just more regen focused instead of a team boon-giver. I love the 250 extra toughness; it’s huge especially when you’re in the middle of a zerg. I’ve always wondered why you had clone on dodge with this build. I like the change.

You have Mirror in the build link but sounds like you’re using MoR. Even with using 1 mantra I do find Dueling VI helpful, but at the same time I also find it a waste since you’re probably not healing often due to the other healing sources.

Which brings me to my next question. I was surprised to see the amount of healing power you have in the build but you don’t focus as much on the healing capabilities in the guide – just a small blurb on regen (versus the general boon support). But so much of your gear is spent into that spec, do you find having that much is worth it? I get it for the regen – it’s really the strongest reason to go with high healing power in my opinion (and since you’re using MoR vs Ether Feast). Especially with the sigil of life charges, seems like you could shave off a good 200-300 healing power in favor of maybe more toughness to keep your phantasms alive longer or maybe even add some boon duration gear which is more the focus of the build.

Overall I love the build and the ideas. As I am working on (essentially a variant) build of my own, I may give you a shout out in-game or send you a PM for more theory crafting support build geek chat.

Chaos, what are you actively running with this build? The guide gives so many variants I’d like to know what you generally run with. I can assume it’s what you have in the build link but want to verify.

I’ve always thought it had synergy with the dazes and stuns since the other minor traits in domination are relevant to that. If you have an attack chain that dazes/immobilize/stuns in order to unleash damage, with at least 25 in domination the +5% damage on top of the vulnerability stacks from the daze/interrupts is more than just a little helpful for bursting.

Iruwen.3164:

Palu.3405:

Good call on the burning duration though – for some reason I was thinking that two 1.5s burns would equal three ticks, but I’m probably wrong on that.

I still think so. The wiki says “The duration of conditions is rounded to nearest quarter second, which is reflected in the skill tooltip. The duration of conditions can be increased through Condition Duration attribute. It’s important to note that conditions only inflict damage over time in one second intervals and any fractional seconds are ignored.” This sounds like two 1.5s burns adding up would indeed tick three times.

Pre-patch, I used to think you needed 100% condition duration to get 2 full ticks from your personal WoC which applies burning. However, the quarter rounding appears to work if you have 75% condition duration, as noted by a tester who posted findings on the wiki:

“I’ve tested with my mesmer. Winds of Chaos applies 1 second of burning (without duration modification). So I went ahead and bought a Rare Veggie Pizza (40%), 2 Superior Rune of the Mad King (10%), 2 Superior Rune of Lyssa (10%) and increased Domination step by step. At exactly 15 Domination (equals total of 75% condition duration) burning duration of 1.75s ticked 2 times. So I can confirm, that condition duration is rounded up to the next quarter. But keep in mind, if you accidentally inflict 2 burnings in a row, your full condition time will be 3.5s which will in this case internally be rounded up to 3.75 (assumed) and therefore it wil not tick 4 times, only 3 times. That means too, if you’re exact at a quarter, the calculation is rounded up to the next quarter. —213.196.136.71 01:46, 7 April 2013 (UTC)”

Post-patch, since condition duration is also working with clones, this same rule should apply to them, as well as the cumulative factor from other burning sources (such as the prestige).

Yeah I’ve heard of other players who go sc/sw. Do you miss not having the block in each weapon set? I guess it’s weighing the pros/cons as I can see the benefit of having a chain block at your disposal.

And the lack of escape ability can be somewhat mitigated by adding blink, though you sacrifice a mantra.

This is a big deal. I’m especially pleased with the iMage, which makes it less of a worthless phantasm now. 3 stacks of confusion and retaliation duration from 3 iMages with good condition/boon duration spec’d and phantasmal haste? Hmm ….

This, along with the other tested changes make condition based builds for the mesmer post-patch much more realistic.

At least give us 1200 range like Guardians scepter AA

Fay, I posted a mantra nuker build:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/BUILD-MANTRA-NUKER

This is the standard 30/30/0/0/10 build I’m sure many already use but I wanted to get it in the build list.

I prefer a more tanky spec with around ~2300 armor, keeping crit chance @ ~50% and crit dmg in the 90’s.

GS is a very popular choice (at least used to be before iZerker was bugging), but I also like using S/S and Sc/P. I find scepter to be an effective power weapon, especially in this setup where you have a block and resulting heavy damage in each weapon set. I use GS just as much, however depending on the situation. The ability to switch traits in domination and dueling really give flexibility with the weapon choices.

Here are a couple build alternatives:

S/S Sc/P http://tinyurl.com/ca3pqsn
Get your 3 clones up for empowered illusions. Scepter auto-attack helps keep them up, plus does decent damage (not as good as GS tho). Decent ranged solution with Pistol phantasm and confusing images. Swap to S/S for burst. I would use this build more in 1v1 scenarios due to the block on both weapon sets, though doesn’t do as well with AoE.

S/S GS http://tinyurl.com/c9foucp
GS is better AoE and CC using the iZerker and push. So if you run GS, go with GS training. You don’t need the pistol trait so you go with clone on dodge. Playing this build is much more active and you are shattering more but also producing clones if you want to sit back and nuke with GS auto-attack.

Of course you can use the focus OH in either of the builds for specific cases and I do often depending on the situation. Downside is you can’t trait focus but obviously it still has it’s many uses.

Shatters are generally very powerful (just about every attack in this build is), so don’t feel like you can’t shatter in either build, since you will be able to get new phantasms up quickly due to the CD traits/scepter AA/dodge clone. MW crits for ~3k per clone. You can burst foes down very quickly if you can finish the Immobilize/BF/F1 shatter/3x MoP combo. 3x MoP crits at around 2.5k armor ignoring, un-dodgable damage, so three of those will really put the pressure on, but again only use in burst scenarios if possible.

The 3 condition cleanses are very, very handy. I add the blink in there for movement in/out of battle but of course can be replaced with another mantra.
Again build flexibilty is nice as you can swap the weapon sets above and change traits (without re-traiting). Just keep those mantras charged, which with new patch, it’s even easier, and nuke away.

Any other insights/ideas/suggestions on the Mantra Nuker? I know many of you play it so I’d love to hear your experiences.

Nice build – for more Staff/GS build ideas take a look at this thread which is included in the stickied mesmer build list:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Ultimate-flex-build-gs-staff

Your build is very similar to this. I have a build linked in that thread as well for more ideas. The best thing about this build the elasticity trait and potential high might stacking/perma-might via GS, shatters and using the Orrian Truffle/Meat Stew food.

Don’t forget projectile combos through ethereal fields w/duelist phantasm. You can stack 15 easy in a very short time if using scepter MH (CI). Then come in with your next big stack using CoF and MW.

May make the daze OP (not that I wouldn’t mind, just being realistic), but everything else, yeah that’d be a great buff.

In the interest of keeping the list concise and full of non-duplicated builds, Fay go ahead and remove my mantra build. It’s essentially the same as Pyro’s Phantasm Support build which was posted later but would rather keep that one as it has more attention to it.

EDIT: Also, I don’t see a standard mantra nuker in the build list so I figure there should probably be one. GS is probably very popular, but this is one of my personal favorites, using S/S and Sc/P. I find scepter to be a very effective power weapon, especially in this setup where you have a block and resulting heavy damage in each weapon set.
http://tinyurl.com/cjwg6py

This doesn’t do as well with AoE (but still viable). GS is better for that though. So if you run GS, just swap rending shatter with GS training. This is nice if you want to swap weapons without re-traiting when you need that AoE boost. Just keep those mantras charged (with new patch, even easier) and nuke away.

I can see the point of glamour builds being much, much less viable but standard condition/confusion builds should still have some level of viability. I think it’s going to be a matter of playing and seeing how it goes. But yeah, a day or so after the patch I think we’ll have a pretty good idea if confusion based builds are worth sticking with. Keep in mind this applies to engi’s too.

That’s one of the beautiful aspects of this build – the flexibility to trait however you want in inspiration depending on the situation. I personally prefer 10/20/0/25/10 setup in PvE but the 25 in inspiration is pretty much mandatory for a solid phantasm build.

I agree with both pryo/ross but at the same time I’m a big fan of this build since I posted something very, very similar in the below thread (linked) which is more daze focused – uses Imbued Diversion instead of IP. Now since that posting I have been refining it and have come to a 10/30/0/0/30 build using Scepter/Pistol and Staff which seems to be rocking much better using a hybrid of Rabid/Carrion gear (vs all Carrion).

My OP: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Dazed-and-Confused/first#post1697979

The lack of damage issue pyro brought up I agree with since I ran into the same problem but have found it can be somewhat mitigated by extra damage being done by the pistol phantasm and constant confusion applications via the various blinds and also the projectile combos. They can cleanse but they can’t perma-cleanse, right? :-)

That being said, I also agree with what Ross said in that if you’re a competent enough player you could do and apparently are doing well with the build so I’d love to see more. I loved watching your video – keep it up!

Edit: Also would like to know your gear setup and food. Assuming you’re all rabid by the condi-damage but if you could share that would be great.

There is a build link I posted in this thread using Staff/GS, traited similar to yours which is a condition/shatter based build if you’re looking for other ideas. I find having ~700 condition damage is helpful. Don’t forget about the staff clone conditions which are not trivial. You would essentially be trading some of the toughness you have in the build you linked with more condition damage. Note the Orrian Stew food; might is very important with the build and you will pretty much perma-sustain it.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Berserker-vs-Rampager-staff-shattering

I have the same question but about regeneration. Does your regen duration (from boon duration/runes) apply to phantasms (w/Phantasmal Healing traited)?

@Flimp – maybe try this build I posted here?
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/Build-Dazed-and-Confused

As Chaos suggested, you could take 10 pts out of chaos, put towards domination to get the stun chance on daze trait …
The build is meant more for carrion armor due to the retaliation damage but could be tried with Rabid as well. May want to take one of the alt traits vs confusing cry in that case.

I was surprised at the patch note as well and assume that it was indeed bugged before the update but I had never tested it personally.

Very interesting indeed. Hard to imagine 70 attacks in a fight (I’m sure it’s every bit of that-just never thought about it), and obviously it depends on how long the fight lasts and what class you are facing, but yeah it’s a bit of an eye opener for sure.

Supersun.4603:

Keep in mind that “9 secs” on the mob could actually be 10 seconds flat.

I’m wondering if condition duration might cap at +100%, and that’s the issue you are seeing.

Yeah on the wiki condition duration page someone states there is a 76% duration cap but then someone refutes saying 100% is the cap. There is also discussion on class specific duration scenarios. Bottom line though is, it seems one can’t go over 100% condition duration so it’s best not to gear up for that.

50% is definitely more than I expected. In watching your first video, I can see the retaliation inflicting ~325-450/tick which doesn’t sound like much but yeah that guardian went down quick with whirling wrath. Good stuff.

Question – how much retaliation damage do you inflict on average? I know with the defender it’s doubled but am wondering approximately how much of your damage is done via retaliation (like 25% etc) with this build?

@Kylia – yes, primary damage sources will be confusion and retaliation. You still have your other skills to pressure the opponent down and I stress pressure because obviously this is not a high damage output build. Both dazing/blinding serve a purpose of negating damage by virtue of the fact that they won’t be able to hit you (if timed properly) while pressuring them down. Yeah, daze means they are unable to use skills for a second but you’ve also put some vulnerability on them and bought yourself a little time to do whatever you need (MW/put a skill down/heal etc). Blinding does it’s job and applies confusion as well.

I do see what you’re saying though and the key really is to not waste too much of your blind/confusion applications when you apply daze. But even if you do with an F3, confusion will last much longer than the daze with the veggie pizza which is what I use in the build most of the time. Lemongrass poultry soup was an alt if concerned about condition duration/removal. Like I said too you could bring the disenchanter vs MI which I’ve done.

One other thought, if using Imbued Diversion, you could just use F3 when you have one clone up so as to not “waste” the others to save for confusion. You still get the AoE daze there. Or if you can space the clones out enough, what if you can get an AoE daze from each 3 clone shatter. I just thought of that and have not tested but would be sinister if it worked that way.

So daze on a group scenario …. if you take Imbued Diversion and F3 shatter on a bunched up group, to your point you do get less confusion duration from it. Following the daze though, Prestige, F2 shatter, SoM and Confusing Images as you back up. plus 25 stacks vulnerability on your target and at least 10 on the others. Losing some of that confusion for the 1 second they are dazed is unfortunate but the tactical advantage it provides the group far outweighs that IMO, plus you will still likely get some respectable confusion damage out of it.

@Chaos – I’m working on getting a vid going. Will post here again when I do. Yeah going 30 into dom for the 50% stun on daze is enticing; I just can’t give up Chaotic Dampening.

@Kylia – great question. This build will shine the most I believe in group settings if using Imbued Diversion. When soloing/roaming, I would take IP to get the most out of your confusion stacks. Even w/out IP though, you can still stack up impressive confusion; it’s just the Imbued Diversion traits doesn’t do you much good against a single opponent.

So yeah it’s a little inconvenient to switch but honestly if you know you’ll be zerging then throw on Imbued Diversion and Rending Shatter. If solo/roaming, go IP.

The daze inspiration originally came from the Imbued Diversion trait of which I hear almost no chatter about on these forums. There’s probably a reason for that (and would like to hear), but an AoE diversion can be very powerful, more so in a group where in this build you are also AoE stacking lots of vulnerabilty, especially if you take Domination trait IV. I played with that for awhile as well and used a Sigil of Peril versus the Sigil of Smoldering.

The flexibility allows to swap back and forth to IP if so desired. You could also theoretically swap SoD for Mantra of Distraction as well which I didn’t mention in the OP.