Cry of Frustration is a kitten good suggestion – definitely the most “useless” shatter, mainly just supplementary damage to mind wrack, or simply to proc the shatter traits.
Maybe adding torment in addition to confusion for Cry of Frustration? Would certainly fit the theme of it.
Just a note – in power shatter builds cry of frustration is invaluable as one of the key boon stripping sources, with most players saving mind wrack, diversion and distortion for their actual uses.
I’ve been giving condi a try with undead runes and traited focus as my only real mobility (not counting blink etc.) and I’m not big on it so far. Using focus to catch someone means that when I catch them my main control skill on the weapon set is on cd, which I don’t like. TC is amazing imo for control.
Yes, TC control is one of the centerpieces of the build I linked and offers strong defensive utility. About the mobility, TC is on a short recharge traited. If you use it to try to catch a fleeing opponent, when you catch them, it should be off recharge shortly thereafter, since most fights last longer than 10-15s. What are you experiencing?
Do you use phase retreat/forward?
At the end of the day, with the incredible mobility other classes have not only in swiftness but also in weapon skills, you can only do so much.
Hmm, alright all of this sounds good. I like the dueling aspect since I duel a lot of players anyway. I’ll have to look into that.
I second this – your commentary is always great in matches discussing strategy, but very enlightening is when you commentate when fighting various classes.
The precedent has already been set with engineer and ranger. All classes will be getting moderate to massive buffs of some kind. I expect nothing less for mesmer but honestly all I care about is the bugs atm.
Mirror isn’t necessary and mantra heal can be used if desired – just personal preference. I find mirror adds that much more defensive utility with the 2s reflect and makes it that much better to spam because of 1) the torment application, 2) on demand, long lasting reflection if needed and 3) short recharge.
Torment runes are for the duration increase and the torment application on heal, but any good condition rune set would work. I mentioned Perplexity in my guide, and honestly it’s probably the best set to use if you can stomach it, but you could go with Balthazar, Grenth, Nightmare, Krait, or even Undead to maximize condition damage. It’s really just preference.
I’ve had a few opponents run off in the distance trying to escape and die to torment. It happens more than you might think but yeah it gets cleansed, too. So it’s good that you have ways to apply it fairly consistently – primarily with the scepter block.
Would you say untraited focus also solves mobility problems, or only traited? I don’t think I’ll go 4 into inspiration. I noticed you chased that necro, but he decided to turn around and fight; how often are you able to catch a runner that wants to get away?
My main problem with condition builds is the inability to chase. Does focus really handle this issue in your opinion?
Edit: Forgot to say nice vid! Got me stoked to go full condi. But ya I end up successfully chasing down a lot of people, and also escaping a lot myself, due totally to centaur runes right now, not sure I can give up perm swiftness. Harmonious mantras plus mender’s purity makes mantra heal great condi cleanse. Of course with your build I could take torment or balth runes and get sweet aoe on the heals too…
Edit Edit: I’ll try it and let you know how it goes.
I definitely would have caught that necro, and no, you don’t have to trait the focus necessarily to be mobile in WvW. Check Ross Biddle’s Holy Hell build for that. But I find going 4 into inspiration for this build gets you that much extra defensive utility with reflects and regeneration from phantasmal healing.
Added mobility is gained from the staff phase retreat forward trick. Between that, blink and the focus you’re about as mobile as you can be in WvW with mesmer without taking traveler’s runes.
Biggest keys to playing the build are the into the void pull into iWarden and mirror heal for torment application (or burning if you use balthazar runes).
For another idea, I put together a condition lockdown build with CI awhile back (with guide/vid). It uses sc/f which is fairly uncommon for a condition build, so take the focus bugs into consideration. Taking focus though, mobility problems are solved. Note I haven’t updated the build link for the extra sigil on staff – I’d just throw bursting or torment on it.
The primary issue with builds using maimed that has been discussed a lot on the forum is the lack of burst potential. That being the case, I think that issue has to be resolved for a build using maimed to be considered “viable”.
If you can’t burst with the build, you need to get condition duration as long as possible to allow the torment from maimed to make a bit of difference. If you’re talking PvP, this isn’t possible IMO. If you’re talking WvW, there are potential possibilities.
Address the major game affecting balance issues, but other than that all I care about at this point is bugs. Please make a concerted effort to address the massive amounts in game right now. Frankly, if that was the primary focus this year and completed, that’d be a major accomplishment. Shouldn’t have to be this way of course but we are where we are.
A major bug fixing effort across all classes could also potentially shift balance as players start experimenting with long bugged skills and traits.
@TyPin, a suggestion – don’t run blinding befuddlement. In addition to the unnecessary 5s ICD and ridiculous master tree placement, it only applies confusion to one opponent instead of all that are blinded. Even then, it’s only 1 confusion stack. It’s completely worthless.
You make a valid point about thieves/stealth, although the same could also be said to some degree about mesmers.
There are certain heals that are instant, but they are definitely not the norm. The majority of #6 healing skills and skills that heal in the game have cast times: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Healing_skill
Interrupt builds by far will get you closest to the original GW1 mesmer, but without cast bars it’s never going to really feel like it. Instead of cast bars, you have a much more complex job of reacting to skill animations and then knowing which ones to interrupt (heals and elites being paramount).
I’ve been so bored lately… I just wish I vould get back to gw2 and do the new things for some free fun.
Too bad the only profession I enjoy is nerfed, then completely ignored by th devs, and then nerfed some more. If it wasnt for the state of the Mesmer Id still have gw2 as my favourite game.
Hi Alissah
I wish the mesmer provided more of an enticing reason for you to come back, but sadly it doesn’t. Could always join pyro in dragon nest. I still play GW2, but I’ve played a bit of DN and it’s surprisingly a lot of fun.
While this build looks incredibly promising and one of the most inventive this forum has ever seen in capitalizing on our class’s increasing rate of down state, my whole lifetime could pass and I wouldn’t ever regret having missed seeing your impending video.
I have R for autorun, V for dodge, I’ll try using some of these binds you guys suggested. How do I bind shatters to stuff like ctrl + 1-4? If this is any help I have a Logitech K200 keyboard
You can have dual and even triple key combinations for a single skill/action. So when you set the binding, press the combination quickly and it will register just like if you press a single key.
Before I switched to a logitech G600, for F1-F4 these worked decently for me:
F1: E
F2: R
F3: Alt-E
F4: Alt-R
Basically, thumb is always on the alt key. In your case it is anyway due to your binding on about face.
I’ve heard stow weapon can be helpful to decrease the time it takes to get out of combat, but not sure if there’s anything to that.
Watching supcutie’s stream awhile back awakened me to using C and V – triggered by your thumb – as my utilities (along with Q for blink). That really opened things up for me, and then going one more over from V to B for stow weapon was easy. I know a lot of people use V for dodge though, but you didn’t mention that.
While the list is quite extensive, if you ever find a new bug please post it there so I can add it to the list. Also, if you have some reference material to an already existing bug post it there as well so I can attach it to the listed bug.
First, thanks for doing this.
Couple things. For #19, I’m not sure this is bugged, in fact in my testing CS was extending daze duration by 50%, not 25, and it stacked with runes of mesmer. See this link: Daze Duration. I will try to re-test to validate but it may not be for awhile. Note my testing followed the OP of the thread you’re referencing so I imagine there were some changes.
Also #31 isn’t referencing a specific weapon. Did you mean to include the malicious sorcery issue here? That trait is what’s screwed up with the double CD. Taken alone it doesn’t lower the CD of scepter #2 triggered.
OP – I’ll throw this out there for another idea, a build I posted some time ago, updated for recent patches: The Utility Wizard
This non-PU build focuses on blind spam. Mesmer can do it just about as good as thieves. It’s very difficult to bring down, especially for thieves. You can play full bunker using settlers or a celestial alternate that’s surprisingly effective (in build link). The blinds act as additional key saving cooldowns in addition to our already inherent damage avoidance in combat mobility with staff, scepter #2 and focus pulls.
Hype aside, feel free to try it. It takes a bit of practice cycling through your blinds (remember chaos armor always), but the guide should help a bit.
I know from watching helselth and supcutie’s streams in the past week that they both are not in favor of the iLeap fix and both feel it hampers the weapon. Helseth went into a long discussion a week ago on why, which are essentially the same reasons that we’ve all been talking about.
At top level play, both say sword isn’t viable – supcutie even said staff was more viable pre-nerf and now post-nerf sword is pushed way out. In soloq supcutie still uses sword for the 4/4/6 CI spec but soloq is soloq.
Helselth ultimately doesn’t care because he doesn’t play sword.
Facepalm – my mistake, for some reason I thought AT was 40s base cooldown instead of 45! xD
In that case 35s would be suitable (down to 28s traited).
I think this alone would be a good start, if ANet don’t want to make any significant changes to the skill. Reducing the base cooldown by 10 seconds would be great.
Yeah the reduced recharge is the first thing to do with this one. Doing as suggested here makes it the exact same as chaos storm, which is a much stronger skill if you think about it.
The other issue with arcane thievery is the sometimes buggy nature of it working properly when activated. The skill is supposed to be unblockable and I’m sure that plays a little into the higher recharge. With spotty reliability though it definitely taints the overall usefulness. I think most work around this, but with increased reliability and lower recharge it’d be in good shape.
I’m not sure if this has been posted in the bug list but from where i have looked i haven’t seen it.
IWarden with Illusionist Celerity trait will not give cooldown reduction.
Not the case – iWarden with Illusionist’s Celerity properly shows the reduced recharge reduction to 20s in the tooltip and reflects it when cast (default is 25s).
However, if both Warden’s Feedback and Illusionist’s Celerity are taken, the tooltip incorrectly states a 20s recharge, but exhibits the correct double reduced recharge upon cast.
I wouldn’t say we’re needed per se in PvP or WvW, but I can say that playing lockdown in those formats is still rewarding and a lot of fun. This coming from the perspective of more casual play (soloq/zergs).
There are generally more effective builds you can run, but don’t let that stop you from playing this style if it interests you.
1. Equip GS + S/S or something similar. Take Deceptive Evasion like nearly everyone does.
2. Throw iZerker on a training dummy.
3. Throw iSwordsman on the training dummy.
4. Activate iLeap on the training dummy.
5. Pretend you’re under attack. Dodge, dodge!
6. Now try to Swap.
:/
Well looks like threads opposing this change are starting to disappear. To all the mesmers out there it was fun it really was sadly this might be the final nail in the coffin for the class unless Anet can quickly shrink that bug list for mesmers in half.
This thread will probably be deleted come the morning, which is a shame because it shows truly how we feel about this “bugfix” and the dev’s actions.
They closed one thread, but the rest look like they were merged into this one.
Im pretty much with you Chaos. The fact they nerfed Ileap was pretty much the last straw for me. Hopefully I will see you around as well. It was fun testing all your fun builds with you <3. Also, nice to know I am not remembered </3
inb4 dat correction for warlord INC
Great playing and interacting with you as well Chaos. It’s been an awesome ride. Best to you in your exploits!
Focus bugged so badly (but I still try thanks to the reliable pull)
Scepter #2 malicious sorcery/IC bug
It’d be one thing if the game shipped with this functionality on iLeap. We would have accepted it for what it is. Now 2 years later they take something out we have come to really rely on, especially in PvP and WvW. I don’t know if they truly understand the ramifications this has on the mesmer player base.
It’s interesting most of our bugs and ‘cough’ ‘cough’ fixes are related to our AI. Any skills that rely on illusions are now potentially endangered. I wonder what other “unintended behavior” is currently occurring, collecting dust on someone’s long bug list for mesmers.
In other news, Thieves got a nice little bug fix for their Ricochet trait. C’mon, Illusionary Elasticity anyone? Another AI based bug apparently unfix-able.
So much salt in the wound. I’m desperately trying to hang on here but saltiness is starting to take over.
Expectations at this point are pretty low for me, but if all they did this year was a massive push to fix known bugs for all professions, that would be significant. For some classes, bugs are so prevalent that fixing them would likely shift balance a bit because there are potential builds no one is playing across many classes because of the bugs.
With shatter, you have little sustained damage. You have to build up to your burst and every 10 seconds you can unleash. The problem is it takes 10 seconds to do that. Phantasm builds have incredible amounts of sustain and on many bosses can go through an attack cycle more than once. It easily out damages shatter over time, but I don’t have the numbers for you (maybe frifox does).
In the revised build wouldn’t you get more mileage if you dropped MoDistraction for MoPain and swapped Halting Strike with Empowered Illusions?
It seems like you’d get more damage from that and have a faster heal rate.
Possibly, in fact QWho runs MoP but with MoD/Halting Strike. Adding MoP is going to add a big boost to heal support which I’m sure will be nice on point, plus add to my personal sustain.
Removing HS from the equation as you suggest leaves me with empowered illusions or mental torment. I’m leaning towards the latter since this is techincally a shatter build. I could still keep HS purely for Chos Storm, GS#5 and Diversion, which might be worth it. Thoughts on that?
While I try to figure that out, I’ll play around with this. Thinking sigil of force married with the 4% damage boost from ogre will be nice for mind wracks, mirror blade and GS AA’s. That said, I’m also thinking about trying to stick a sigil of intelligence on staff (instead of force) to get 3x MoP spikes.
Counter blade will work on any opponent hit in the projectile path. GS#5 is unlimited, Focus pull is unlimited, and Imbued Diversion and Chaos Storm are limited to 5 opponents.
No no no no no.
Nothing is unlimited unless it’s a line aoe. Counterblade is 5 targets, so is illusionary wave and into the void.
Chaos storm is 5 targets per pulse, but pulses multiple times. Imbued diversion is 5 targets per clone.
Hm, on focus pull and illusionary wave, I’m sure you’re probably right if you’re posting, but I’ll re-test to validate.
Absolutely right about counter blade, my mistake – forgot piercing projectiles are limited to five.
Yeah I was wondering the extend to counter blade against stacking zerg. If it can hit everyone in the projectile path then potentially you can interrupt/immobilize half a zerg who’s charging towards your zerg?
It’s a piercing projectile so it will daze anyone it hits in it’s path, but it has a rather small AoE bubble (which is the biggest issue) and only a range of 900 so you have to be rather close. But yes, it can be effective.
Btw how well do you guys think about offensive interruption traits (HS and CI) + counter blade (riposte’s subsequent skill) against zerg? I never know how well it’ll work in such chaotic situations. Is it like a cleaving skill that only hit up to 3 or 5?
Those traits work well, unlimited in effect as long as your opponents don’t have stability and you have a good delivery mechanism. The mechanism for our AoE interrupts is where limitations come into play. Counter blade will work on any opponent hit in the projectile path. GS#5 is unlimited, Focus pull is unlimited, and Imbued Diversion and Chaos Storm are limited to 5 opponents.
Hi Slim – just some thoughts on your build there. This is what I would do:
Ditch traveler runes for any of the ones you mentioned as it’s really gimping your damage. Ogre is going to get you close to the most overall damage, and stregth/pack are really solid. Also, pirate runes are decent – that bird really packs a punch.
For mobility, between blink and phase retreat/forward, you should have plenty to make up for the loss of traveler’s.
Swap mender’s purity for halting strike. If that’s all you did, it would be a big damage improvement if you’re good at landing interrupts. Alternatively, you could go for empowered illusions or mental torment, both decent damage boosts.
Use mantra of resolve instead of arcane thievery. The three condition cleanses should be more than enough and you cleanse your team with them as well
Swap master of manipulation with debilitating dissipation. Weakness is one of the most powerful conditions in the game and can save you in 1v1 fights. In addition, the vulnerability is very nice with bleeds as an extra damage bonus. With vuln from this trait and illusion of vulnerability (assuming the 10 in domination), you’re going to be able to keep up at least 5 stacks on your opponents – that’s 5% extra damage you’re doing to them.
Swap far reaching manipulations for phantasmal fury. I can’t stress this one enough. If you want to do more damage, give your phantasms a chance to inflict the most they can with the traits you have here.
With the mantra/manipulation skill changes I suggested, I would go with ether feast for heals, giving you two mantras to maintain (MoDis and MoRes).
I’ve gotta say this is pretty cool. To me, if you can honestly say that you wouldn’t be able to spec like that and survive the same way in those same situations without taking triumphant distortion, that’s saying something about the trait.
Now, about cooldown management. Seems like a bit of a stressful nightmare, especially in a raid. It seems like you’re actively aware of this during fights, though I noticed a few times you blurred frenzy right over your distortion proc. I can imagine that’s a difficult task.
An idea. As clone generation seems almost impossible – IP is really your primary damage source with DE clones providing secondary damage if you’re lucky. I’m wondering if you’ve thought about taking blurred inscriptions instead of DE (!!!) and maybe swapping mantra of concentration with signet of midnight for your stun break/AoE blind which also gives you 1 sec of distortion on a short 30s CD. You could maybe even take this further by using signet of illusions to recharge your shatters on demand if you want that extra burst right then or more distortion. Course you’d have to drop blink for that one, and ultimately maintain veil which seems a necessity.
Crazy idea I know, just brainstorming. It’s purely theory and it probably wouldn’t be better than what you have here, but curious what you think about it.
