Guild Wars 2

It does bother me that guardians elites got reworked and improved as a result. Whereas we only really saw nerfs to the base versions of our elites and our best heal.

I agree that consume and plague dont need negative conditions on the base versions. Just have negative conditions for when they are traited.

I hated that my lifeblast got turned into piddly little marjory daggers. Such a nice skin but its ruined by that one aspect. :P

I hope not. I dont even like the change that happens with base DS. Its ugly compared to the base effects.

I probably will pay this price in the end regardless of future reveals. The price isnt really the issue. Its the fact that we dont know what we are getting. And im not ready to throw my money at them when i dont have faith that they will have content that suits me. They can have my money when i know what im paying for.

I know i will buy HoT eventually. But at this price and with this lack of info (specifically group content). Im not even remotely interested. Impress me with the rest of the reveals and ill consider that price. At the moment its barely worth it. So far the only thing im hyped about is specialisations. And most of that change is coming in the base game. Im not going to pre-purchase for £35 when the only thing im looking forward to is 2 elite specs.

DonQuack.9025:

considering that the engi skill analyze https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Analyze doesnt do squat to her. I doubt it will work on B.V

but maybe they will fix that.

It requires a target? Doesnt it need to be cast before she stealths? Im not an engi expert or anything but afaik you cant use it to reveal when they are already stealthed.

Or does she just ignore the reveal and stealth through it?

Yeah thats a fair point. But some areas have pretty even splits on opinions. And others simply have certain things which people are against in one instance but for in another. #logic

Anyway i feel like Weth is doing a good job. The votes are fine as they are for now. Once things are ironed out and clear we wont have anything to vote on. I see that as a good thing. Better now rather than when the problems appear.

Pino.5209:

spoj.9672:

Pino.5209:

No truly competitive person/gamer will say 5% or 10% is trivial. That figure can mean dead or alive, win or lose.
Why majority of gw2 players always brush the difference off as trivial? because it’s a casual game for casual gamers.

Yeah except this game isnt a game which is win or lose based on a minor stat difference on gear. So it really doesnt matter. It is trivial unless you are a mix/maxer. And if you are a min/maxer you should already have/want ascended gear. The complaints are flawed.

Also using food and potions still gives more than switching to ascended. So yeah people are complaining over nothing. Especially when most of the people complaining probably dont even use good food.

It wasn’t a complaint btw. And you just proved my point, casual spotted. I’m not saying it’s a bad thing lol.

Yeah im so casual ive only got 6 ascended sets out of the 9 I want. Lack of dragonite in fractals/dungeons. :<

Pino.5209:

No truly competitive person/gamer will say 5% or 10% is trivial. That figure can mean dead or alive, win or lose.
Why majority of gw2 players always brush the difference off as trivial? because it’s a casual game for casual gamers.

Yeah except this game isnt a game which is win or lose based on a minor stat difference on gear. So it really doesnt matter. It is trivial unless you are a mix/maxer. And if you are a min/maxer you should already have/want ascended gear. The complaints are flawed.

Also using food and potions still gives more than switching to ascended. So yeah people are complaining over nothing. Especially when most of the people complaining probably dont even use good food.

Jerus.4350:

spoj.9672:

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Ok, thanks for the clarification

I am wondering though: what if we come across a tactic that does not appear to be intended but that we majoritarily want to allow as a community?

Like NPC manipulation?

FGS was considered fine because it was working as the skill intended. We had the blink FGS exploit banned. But regular FGS against a wall was considered legit (devs even said it was fine but op when asked during tequatl etc). It was broken but there was no suggestion it was anything other than a design oversight. The same could be said for line casting and lupi 1 shot. Im guessing people have just become goody goodies since then.

So it wasn’t intended, but ok, because “that’s how it worked”

My point was just to say that I think this idea of consistency can’t really happen when we can’t even consistently say what is and isn’t intended. Devs can’t either if they actually thought “it was fine” but then change it and any ability that works similarly (/mourn burning speed/retreat).

So if people want a blanket statement. I’d just put : “This ruleset is to create a more competitive and fun system in which we can play” or something like that. Because, well, all “restricted” really is, a set of rules people came up with so they didn’t have to do those things to compete for the speed run title. Making them not really speed runs but a superior competitive PVE scene.

This is exactly why im against the whole restricted thing. And complex rules which create inconsistencies and the need for exceptions.

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

Ok, thanks for the clarification

I am wondering though: what if we come across a tactic that does not appear to be intended but that we majoritarily want to allow as a community?

Like NPC manipulation?

FGS was considered fine because it was working as the skill intended. We had the blink FGS exploit banned. But regular FGS against a wall was considered legit (devs even said it was fine but op when asked during tequatl etc). It was broken but there was no suggestion it was anything other than a design oversight. The same could be said for line casting and lupi 1 shot. Im guessing people have just become goody goodies since then.

Astralporing.1957:

Dante.1763:

Julischka Bean.7491:

Hi Phys.

Weaker meaning I will not be able to survive the wilds of the jungle????

I guess nobody knows the answer to that yet.

You will be able to do just fine in the jungle. The stat difference is still honestly not that big. it used to only be a 1-2% damage difference, and now it will be a 2-4% damage difference. Woooo!!!!!!

Actually it was an over 10% damage difference between full exo and full ascended for damage builds. Now it will be more. Wonder if the flat 5% dps upgrade of weapons will be changed to 10% difference as well, or will it only cover stats.
In other news, cloth prices seem to be skyrocketing right now. I wonder why :P

The damage difference from weapons is purely because of the weapon strength upgrade. I doubt they are changing that as well.

In the solo instance a single daze was enough to interrupt the champ (scaling break bar). That wasnt a basic break bar though.

I suspect basic perma break bar will only be on old content.

Path of corruption is better than well of corruption for a lot of situations. Im all for you reshuffling traits to better condi builds. But keep in mind other builds that dont use specific utilities etc. Your idea gives a totally useless adept tier. Combining terror with one of the minors is something I support. The other change isnt.

Thats for Wyvern and some new stuff. The old stuff just gets a basic break bar.

flow.6043:

spoj.9672:

Yeah and thats exactly the issue. Maybe i dont want to use corruption skills and maybe i dont want extra self weaken/poison on my self.

Those 3 debuffer traits are skill independant. Only chilling darkness require a bit of build investment for.

Plague sending is probably useless to that build in a lot of situations. Id rather not be forced to use a trait i dont get any benefit out of.

You can actually build a necro without any access to blindness, so in that regard it is just the same a MoC.
And like I said, if you don’t want corruptions you can take Plague Sending, why would you not benefit from? Are we talking about PvE? But then you wouldn’t take Path of Corruption…

There are boons in PvE. And there will probably be more in the future. I would rather have controlled boon removal instead of random uncontrolled condi cleanse.

Yeah and thats exactly the issue. Maybe i dont want to use corruption skills and maybe i dont want extra self weaken/poison on my self.

Those 3 debuffer traits are skill independant. Only chilling darkness require a bit of build investment for.

Plague sending is probably useless to that build in a lot of situations. Id rather not be forced to use a trait i dont get any benefit out of.

If i dont know what i should and shouldnt be approving then its an issue. Doesnt necessarily need a vote in all cases i admit. But the NPC thing became a lot more abundant recently so its good to clarify if people are still ok with it.

1000 compared to 1100 versus 1300 compared to 1430. Its really not that big of a difference.

Of course it looks like a huge difference when you use unrealistic numbers. Currently ascended gear gives 1087 stat points to the main stat and 745 to the secondary stats. Exotic gives something like 977 to the mainstat. Seems like the stat difference is already 10% for some reason (might be messed up because of trinkets).

Yeah but thats a problem in itself. These things are borderline exploity. When i think of the restricted ruleset i expect things like that to possibly be banned. So when its not clarified in the rules and i dont remember an old decision made by the community im going to bring it up.

NikeEU.7690:

How about “only bring up items for votes if there is a genuine debate within the community”?

For example, at the meetings it was settled that NPC death and teleport manipulation was allowed. Why are we voting again on this? There is no new impetus for rehashing this topic as far as I can see. It’s a good example of an unnecessary voting topic since we are basically discussing an issue that was settled long ago.

I dont remember this being discussed in the meeting. There is no rule mentioning NPC or cutscene manipulation currently which is why it was brought up. This particular issue is more about clarifying things. People have voted to continue allowing it. So thats fine.

Just be grateful Weth is actually going through the effort of these votes even if its just to clarify and confirm old decisions. Its not a big deal to click a few votes once a week.

Its a 10% difference after the bonus 30% is added. Its still only a 10% difference.

flow.6043:

spoj.9672:

flow.6043:

Also, the adept traits in Curses basically make you choose Plague Sending until Reaper comes out when people will consider taking Chilling Darkness instead. No one is going to take the falling damage trait. But in that case, would Chilling Darkness really have to stay in adept tier?

What if we had this setup instead:

• Terror merged with Furious Demise as master minor trait.
• adept: Terryfying Decent – Plague Sending – Master of Corruption
• master: Chilling Darkness – Path of Corruption – Parasitic Contagion
• gm: Lingering Curse – Weakening Shroud – (New Trait)

Problem with this is it removes the debuff choice trait from the adept tier. Chilling Darkness should stay adept for this. Or maybe path of corruption to swap with chilling darkness as an alternative.

Whatever you do to curses. I feel like it should maintain the choice to take 3 debuff traits. So that means chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

Why?
For what build and in what game mode is having these three traits in seperate tiers the highest priority for Curses.

Also, I don’t quite follow your logic in regards to Weakening Shroud and Chilling Darkness being the debuffers.
I might as well argue that Master of Corruption is more effective as a debuff trait because it reduces the cd of Corrupt Boon and gives more conditions to transfer. And Plague Sending, especially if you pair it with Signets of Suffering will corrupt boons in addition to a condi transfer so it really doesn’t get more “debuffy” than that.

Ok ill put it another way. They are not condition damage traits and they are not condition dependant traits. All 3 of those traits work well on power builds. Master of corruption doesnt necessarily work due to its negative aspects and requirement for condi transfer/cleanse.

Your idea is great for condi builds, not so much for others. Maybe someone wants to go in curses to use debilitating conditions. Path of Corruption doesnt fit that exactly but it can do it under the right conditions. And it doesnt have the negative aspect of bonus self harm conditions on use like MoC does. Which as a power debuffer I wont necessarily have access to a transfer to deal with.

Kaos.9162:

spoj.9672:

It wouldnt be fair if it was 50% but it still wouldnt matter because there is no gear requirements. Crying for the sake of crying with no real arguement wont make your point heard.

Doesn’t matter? WvW says hello.

Well thankfully its only a 10% difference!

It wouldnt be fair if it was 50% but it still wouldnt matter because there is no gear requirements. Crying for the sake of crying with no real arguement wont make your point heard.

Gibson.4036:

So, the question is, will the forum defenders of Ascended gear continue to tell us the gap between Exotic and Ascended is too minor to matter?

Apparently ArenaNet didn’t like the idea that a huge portion of their player base could shrug off the grind to get Ascended by dismissing the minor stat boost.

Come on. Come on. You know you want this tasty carrot…..

It still shouldnt matter for the casual player. There are no gear requirements to complete content (apart from agony resist in fractals) and there are no DPS checks that require any significant investment.

The stat difference is larger. But its still pretty small.

flow.6043:

Also, the adept traits in Curses basically make you choose Plague Sending until Reaper comes out when people will consider taking Chilling Darkness instead. No one is going to take the falling damage trait. But in that case, would Chilling Darkness really have to stay in adept tier?

What if we had this setup instead:

• Terror merged with Furious Demise as master minor trait.
• adept: Terryfying Decent – Plague Sending – Master of Corruption
• master: Chilling Darkness – Path of Corruption – Parasitic Contagion
• gm: Lingering Curse – Weakening Shroud – (New Trait)

Problem with this is it removes the debuff choice trait from the adept tier. Chilling Darkness should stay adept for this. Or maybe path of corruption to swap with chilling darkness as an alternative.

Whatever you do to curses. I feel like it should maintain the choice to take 3 debuff traits. So that means chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

Odeezee.7362:

spoj.9672:

Curses in its current state works for giving the option of a debuffer role (power/hybrid/condi). Chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

just no! don’t be selfish and ONLY think of your build or builds you like playing. if Necros have good trait lines that’s good for ALL Necros, enough of this selfish bullkitten; i play power so this patch is nice for me garbage or i play MM so these changes seem great. this is why we can’t have nice things!

Lol what. Ok so everyone in this thread has been saying “OMG curses is bad. Im forced to take terror. Condi is kittended so curses is useless”. Then i merely mention one option that has opened up for the line. And im being called selfish? What?

From a power perspective curses has improved. From a condi perspective it looks like its improved as well (maybe thats just me). You can take terror and LC now. You have genuine choices for all types of builds in every tier. They might not all be great choices but they are at least there.

Im not saying the curses line is good. Im saying its improved over last preview. Im all for further improvements. Dont put words in my mouth please.

Yeah but we will all be running slower so overall its a nerf.

Curses in its current state works for giving the option of a debuffer role (power/hybrid/condi). Chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

I do think the curses line has improved quite a bit from the last version. I also no longer feel any need to spec into it for a pure damage build. That can be looked at as both a positive and a negative.

For power builds its going to be Spite and Soul reaping and then blood magic for damage and support. With the option to swap blood to curses for debuff support.

I dont see how thats relevant to what im saying. Im simply saying we can no longer cleanse and get out of combat with consume conditions. Because we will already be in combat when we want to cleanse. And the vuln applied will keep us in combat until it runs out.

This is an annoying QoL nerf. It means after killing a group of enemies/boss that applied conditions to us we can no longer get out of combat immediately by just cleansing with our heal.

NapTooN.6283:

spoj.9672:

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

Well not at all if you think about it. CoCo puts you in Fake Combat (no Enemy around and Vul does not deal Damage to you) which means that your Signet of Undeath for example starts generating Lifeforce. I am pretty sure they are other ways to exploit the Fake Combat CoCo puts you into.

Non damaging conditions dont put you into combat if you are already out of it. But they do prevent you from leaving combat.

Theres no such thing as fake combat. Your either in combat or your not. Taking fall damage puts you in combat briefly but that doesnt require enemies around.

Nike arent you missing trinkets and weapons?

There is 1087 power on ascended berserker currently. 30% increase gives 326 power. That plus the extra base means that you should have more power (400 to be precise). Secondary stats give 745 so 30% means 224 extra stats. The base increase + 224 means we get 298 attrib points on secondary stats. Which is basically the same as a fully invested trait line gives.

We are getting an overall stat buff to our 3 main stat investments but losing condi duration. Or am i missing something?

And i didnt even consider the following reveal:

“The attribute difference between exotic and ascended gear has been changed from 5% to 10%.”

It could mean exotic is nerfed and ascended stays the same though.

source: http://www.dragonseason.com/activity/390/

Even if it doesnt the biggest use will still be portal.

Vague Memory.2817:

and I struggle to see any real use for PvE.

Portals are meta in dungeons/fractals. Double portal, double feedback, double timewarp and double mass invis. All very relevant and useful to PvE.

fracture.9754:

Oh I know what it does alright. I’m poking to get some reactions out of spoj. ^^

To be honest consume is the one im least bothered about. The biggest nerf about it is we can no longer cleanse conditions to get out of combat with it. If we have a transfer equipped the vuln is nice. And the nerf just makes you think about which heal you want to bring. I would rather they buffed the other heals but meh.

Lich and plague are just screwed up and unjustified nerfs.

Thats true but they did mention others. And i can see them removing it. As far as I know it wasnt really used much other than in PvE so it wouldnt be the worst idea in the world. Its a bandaid solution but it works. The fact that they did it with feedback and the quote suggests that lupi is the reason for that change. It makes me think its quite likely for guard as well.

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

I didnt properly read the axe training change. But that trait is actually decent now. 10% damage to vuln foes means we can use it on non axe builds to get a potent extra damage modifier. Its decent compensation for the loss of old target the weak.

BiP change is nice. But the nerfed might duration and stacks and no mention of cooldown reduction bothers me quite a bit. The baseline buffs are nice. The Lich form nerf is stupid. It encourages us to use the other non auto attack skills even less because we have very little time inside Lich Form.

Making consume and plague corruptions and nerfing them is also really annoying. If i had a free transfer I wouldnt mind the consume conditions version though. Spectral walk nerf is really annoying but i suspect its to stop map abuse in HoT. Much like the movement skill changes.

The spite line is much much better. The choices are still decent but i know what i want for each build now (thanks to reapers might moving to minor). Im still a little unhappy with spiteful spirit though.

Curses is much better for condi’s and it certainly has use for a utility based (debuff) power build. It just wont be a standard pick for power builds anymore.

Death magic seems like they listened so now we actually have decent choices for stuff other than minions in that line.

Blood magic is still not great. It seems like anet thinks support is purely ressing allies. I dont like that vampiric presence and banshees wail compete. Id like to see banshees wail swap with either blood bond or quickening thirst.

Soul reaping is basically the same. Thats fine i guess. Still think strength of undeath should be 10% instead of 5% damage.

I didnt even notice but they actually gave necro another damage modifier trait. Axe training got renamed and gives 10% damage to vulnerable foes. Little more damage is nice.

All those nerfs to lich, plague, consume and spectral walk are messed up though. Lich barely has enough time to cast all the abilities as it is now. Now its even worse so its going to be even more spam 1. No more spectral walk exploits. :<

Feedback requires a target. No mention of ground target consecrations as baseline anymore. Looks like they may have semi fixed lupi 1 shot through skill nerfs. Curtain is unreliable for a full 1 shot. Problem solved?

A lot better than the last preview. But the nerfs to elites and consume is kind of kittened.

I like the ideas for blood magic support. Unfortunately theres only two traits in that line that I would want and they are in the same tier (banshees wail and vampiric presence).

Curses is heavy condi focus now. Dont mind it so much. Just feeling a little disappointed with the lack of choice for power necros and the major lack of damage modifiers (persistent problem).

You couldnt really consider him a member even before he left. He was just still on our guild roster.

NikeEU.7690:

It’s a joke that you guys (and by “you guys” it’s rT just look at the cast of people defending this, or is that a coincidence?) don’t understand how mismanaged it is.

Yes it is a coincidence. And 4 members of rT posted in this thread. Me and Zelyhn were just backing up the logic behind Weth’s decision. That had nothing to do with defending it. And the 3rd member was Miku who doesnt agree with it. And Element didnt comment on lupi.

You need to stop with the paranoid delusions. Or do you like conspiracy theories that much?

Record in HD on max resolution? My computer is too old to handle that though.

Nah it was close to breaking when we didnt know whether to approve things or not because the rules didnt cover most of the stuff being used in recent records.

Im really greatful that Weth is putting so much work and effort into this. I know ive felt like abandoning ship a few times and i dont even do much at all. Praise is deserved for his efforts. Especially when hes so quick to resolve issues quickly without compromising and giving in.

Added to the site.

Problem with 1) is it creates a mismatch between hero points and hero challenges. I doubt they want a long term mismatch like this in game. Its probably also annoying to code for.

And you dont need any hero points in PvP. WvW could just have more hero challenges on the new borderlands maps. Problem solved partially.

NikeEU.7690:

It stretches the imagination to believe that when people were voting last week that they understood that what they were really voting for was allowing the Lupicus wallsploit. This feels to most of us like a “gotcha” thing designed as some bizarre trap. And Weth can say, “you voted, I am just administering the rules pursuant to that” but the fact is that Weth set the agenda in the first place by bringing to a vote issues that people didn’t even necessarily want or need to address.

I dont really feel like this is a bad thing. It brings to light the exact issue some of us tried to raise in the past. If you want complex rules but you also want us to stick to the ruleset then you are going to see things which dont work together consistently. Admittedly this is a rather forced example because its based on a standalone exception and not an exception to a specific rule.