Guild Wars 2

Its not one thing on the thief – its a combination of many – a ‘too much of too much’ situation.

The burst damage is very high – perhaps this would be OK if thats all there was and the class had other limiting factors. However there are no limiting factors and the front loadeed burst is extreme – but it doesn’t tail off either. Plus ranged spammable abilities with high damage, pulls and gap closers – there is no weakness.

Constant invisibility – stealth isn’t a one shot attempt. Constant restealthing and resetting fights on a ludicrously short cooldown. Once out of stealth a thief should be committed and vulnerable – currently this is not so.

Heartseeker – massive damage, gap closer, spammable and when untargetted an escape ability. Needs a cooldown, damage reduction and require a target.

Too much damage plus invisibility plus range plus gap closer plus escape whenever the thief wants. its overpowered and multiple things have to give.

So you want everybody to be able to kill everybody else in <2 seconds with no risk?

That doesn’t seem like a good idea. I’ll stick with the thief nerfs tyvm.

You want to beat a thief? Roll a thief. Then both of you can slap your face up and down on the keyboard and have a 50/50 chance of winning.

quote=959343;Arkensoth.8139:]

- Thief mugs for 1000
- Thief cnd for 1000
- Thief backstabs for 2000
- Thief hs for 1500
“[/quote]

Well reality is more like

- Thief mugs for 3000
- Thief cnd for 4000
- Thief backstabs for 8000
- Thief hs for 4000
Other player dies wondering what hit him as he still can’t see it and thief self deludedly wets hits pants thinking he can play and its not his ridiculously overpowered class.

Bring on the nerfs please ANET.

Thieves are still ridiculous.

Heartseeker needs the movement component removing at the very least. Or a significant damage reduction and a re-use timer. 1 ability that does massive damage and is a gap closer/escape tool and is spammable. Can anyone seriously argue thats balanced?

Thieves are still ridiculous and I’m hoping more nerfs are imminent

You tend to see collaberation between the french and german servers.

However as its points based logic says that:

1. You attack the weakest of the three to get easy points on the board
2. First and third place should target second place – one to increase their lead and the other to avoid relegation.

Solo PVE farming the pet works fine.

Any form of PvP and the pet is nigh on useless, three quarters of your sots will miss because someone moved or there’s a blade of grass in the way.

In short if you want to play a ranged class that has more survivability, hits harder at range and doesn’t have the same issue with obstruction roll a warrior, slap on a rifle and facepalm ANET at how much better it is at range than a ranger….

Edelweiss.9815:

Warrior would be on the very bottom if not for the Greatsword lolcombo, so right now they’re just barely above Rangers.

This class is a disaster in PvP. I’ve never seen such a terrible imbalance in any MMO. It’s madness, but there’s a method to it, it’s actually designed this way from the very bottom. The class is designed to be this “simple, but works” kind of deal, no special tricks, but straightforward mechanics. Unfortunately, the game itself is not designed this way. Warrior has nothing, absolutely nothing, just a bunch of extremely simple abilities and a bunch of totally useless abilities (Banners, Physical Skills). It can’t be fixed, unless A-net overhauls the whole class and gives it totally new abilities and a special mechanic, but we all know they’re unwilling to spend resources on that. They probably don’t even know what to do, seeing their recent Warrior “buffs” (10% to Dual Shot damage? What? Why?). The Warrior might become OP just with sheer numerical buffs, making it too damaging or too tough, but it will never allow for skill and smart play.

By the way, Warrior is not a jack of all trades. It’s kinda-good at burst (pretty bad, actually, as Bull’s Charge is easily countered and Frenzy carries too much of a drawback) and bad at everything else.

LOL

My ranger was my main until the last couple of patches and ANETs complete incompetence. My warrior is now mid 70s. I’d put them in the top 3 classes – and incidentally they’re a way better ranged class than the ranger (how ANET screwed that up I do not know).

How warriors haven’t taken more nerf hits up to now i do not know but there is absolutely nothing wrong with the class and in many cases its rather overpowered.

Well SFR aren’t ready for T1 so next week may be a massive shock – but this week has been 90% boring. Feels like one T2 server fighting 2 t5-6 servers – deso crumbled into nothing significant and BB are entirely incomprehensible in their total lack of basic tactics. How on earth did they get to T2?

Parthis.2091:

Lack of PvP players. Smaller guilds and PvE focused players are bored of running into numerous mindless SFR zergs, and a few guilds have transferred.

Free transfers gut servers. You can see by how much the WvW landscape has changed; it’s an ever changing migration of players. Take Blacktide as an example; Shiverpeaks gutted so that BT can be top dawgs. GG Anet.

In fact, good luck in T1 Seafarer’s, you’re perfectly built for the Zerg Vs Zerg monotony of T1.

I seem to recall it was “numerous mindless zergs” that got deso into T1 – or is this merely sour grapes pvp 101 (when losing blame the other side of mindless zerging).

Simple version – without the huge numbers (and SFRs ‘zergs’ aka multuiple 20-30 man groups hitting different points on the map are nothing to the enormous blobs that deso used to run) deso are what they’ve always been – a mid tier nothing special server.

Got to hand it to Baruch playing des at their own game and doing it better.

(explanation – des didn’t set out to win or contest this match – they set out to beat baruch and not come last. Most of the time you saw them holding 20-30 points more than BB. BB have now turned that around on des.)

Really?

I’m only responding to those who started shooting their mouths off…..

Kraken.7514:

Rayya.2591:

I am just honored that i make part of an big zerg with no tactics and full of bad players that can keep 400 points at peak

200 000 barbarians could take over a whole country. 20 000 romans could beat them. Problem for the romans is when there is not enough of them to cover all the maps.

Dont misunderstand me, you must have romans they just didnt cross with ours.

Does baruch want to try and come up with a reason their ‘romans’ have been pinned in their spawn point nearly all day?

Killver.7653:

Kraken.7514:

Well for BB the weekend is the weakest time of the week. We are trying to hang arround in points so maby during the weekdays we can surpass Deso.

Both of our rival servers have A LOT more population than us but I find their Zergs soft as gelly and not very good quality.

Yesterday night in Deso Borderlands was a killing fest but we where just overwhelmed by numbers. We where wiping one zerg south to have to immediately run north to wipe another zerg and so on.

We even did a 10 man takeover of the central fort just to see a SR zerg waiting outside to steal it. At least we scored this 2 times O.o

Its nice to see SR again, from what I see they lost quality for quantity which now a days is quite a smart choice tbh.

Good fights overall up to now. I hope we can get over the weekend and see if during weektimes populations are a bit more balanced.

Seriously? I have the exact same feelings for BB: they are squishy as hell, but I would never point somethign offendig out, but now that you are doing it I can do it as well

I have never lost a fight until reset against BB where it was zerg vs zerg even if we have been outnumbered occasionally.

But well, I wish all servers luck for the rest of the week and let’s see how we will do against desos and bbs night teams during weak.

From memory last time we saw BB they were little more than a speed bump and finished third.

I don’t see a great deal of improvement – just more silly guild names.

Distinctly one sided at the moment….

Rayya.2591:

Likta.9280:

tagnut.8621:

^^^^

He’s going to be awfully upset when he realises that neither desolation nor seafarers have a nightcapping crew either, and that those queue times are pretty much the same as on SFR……

I wish you guys best of luck in Tier 1 in the future. Blacktide and Vizunah have your CRAZY numbers too and are way ahead of SFR in every regard. When you see 25 ppl from Red Guard, just run. They WILL crush your Zerg.

ye ye , i heard stories about iron also, but they were only stories :P

Wasn’t just me who was totally underwhelmed then?

^^^^

He’s going to be awfully upset when he realises that neither desolation nor seafarers have a nightcapping crew either, and that those queue times are pretty much the same as on SFR……

It has been a much better week, but I’m confused by the big deso blob who have been farmed stupid at sm sw outer for the past 90 minutes (including quite a few well known supposed guild groups) buy a handful of sfr in defence. I mean i dont mind my lowbie alt has gained 2+ levels in past hour just from defence and kills but really how hard is it to get a clue?

Much deserved 3rd place for des this week

I mostly wvw ;p

Even at low levels im causing havoc. true the range is a bit less but seems warriros dont have anywhere near the issues with obstruction and hit rather hard. And then theres hammer – oh my…..

LameFox.6349:

tagnut.8621:

No i don’t think you’ve grasped the basic point there.

Someone claimed RS hits for 20K. It does not – they thought each damage figure was an individual one not the cumulative amount. RS is a 5-7k channeled damage ability.

Kil shot, singular, is a cast time – albeit a short cast time – shot that has been documented in the 15-20k plus range. This is far too much.

I’m not sure i can make it any simpler for you.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Rapid_Fire
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Kill_Shot

What he actually said was ‘rangers can do upwards of 20k in rapid shot [sic]’.

Now I don’t play a ranger anymore, but given that rapidfire has a higher total damage (and DPS) than killshot, and killshot can (albeit with a lot of coaxing) deal ~20k damage, I’m guessing it’s probably true.

Why you’ve assumed he meant per hit I have no idea.

Check out the ranger tooltip on live. What that means is 10 shots that do a total of 1320 damage – not 10 shots each of 1320 damage (on live mine says 3300). Which is why RF foes not do 20k.

In rapid shot rangers can do 20K? No. No they can’t.

Busy levelling my warrior. He’s so much better than a ranger. By miles. I’d go as far to say he’s a bit overpowered. Not as overpowered as thief but close.

Adimosta.9652:

I’m a VS player, and i want go in T2!
BT have a lot of good guild (thanks free migration) with a large time-zone.
But a serveur with tag FR SP or DE don’t interressing a other region to come in (tag EU is the must).
Nobody want fight BT, Iron on Desolation want T2, a lot of player VS want T2, Elona don’t want come on T1 why, because BT are the best with a large time-zone, a lot of good guild, and play very good zerg (i hate zerg, i love real fight 15vs15, fight with GF or Nug when they are on FS server, roaming group, not 100 zombie player vs doors)
No challenge No-match No game pleasure for a week
If BT want challenge, go on a international server with large time-zone^^
BT is the best, it’s my conclusion.
A VS player who speak very bad english

Its not the tag that puts people off. Its the french or germans on the server. You could tag it as EU and people would leave like a shot once theyd arrived and worked it out.

ethier.3417:

It’s not other till the fat lady sings.

Riverside are still in it imo.

Not a chance. Server doesn’t know how to do anything except sit in a keep till they have 60 or so people – throw up 10-15 balistae and then wait for an hour before rushing 10 people. They can’t attack – they are terrible.

Riverside suck by any measurement – how they got to T3 is beyond me. They are awful beyond belief.

Seems FS has given up completely. might as well close it now for this week Anet – its pretty much all over with ;p

LameFox.6349:

tagnut.8621:

Rangers 20K with rapid shot????

No they can’t. They just can’t. What you’re doing is adding each number from RS together and goig ‘wowsas!’ – whats actually happening with rapid shot is that its a channelled ability where the num ber shown is the cumulative amount. So if the first hit is 600 and the next 1200 – tha’s not 1800, that is just 1200.

Hahaha… oh wow.

Okay, so clearly kill shot should just be renamed kill shots and made to fire 5 times or something during its channel for the same total damage. Bonus: now virtually aegis-proof!

No i don’t think you’ve grasped the basic point there.

Someone claimed RS hits for 20K. It does not – they thought each damage figure was an individual one not the cumulative amount. RS is a 5-7k channeled damage ability.

Kil shot, singular, is a cast time – albeit a short cast time – shot that has been documented in the 15-20k plus range. This is far too much.

I’m not sure i can make it any simpler for you.

SFR doesnt have night/morning cappers….

omg someone taught riverside a new tactic. Now they can do more than sit in SM and build 100 items of siege (well arrow carts and ballistaes – do they not have cats and trebs on german servers?)

We can now add 9am golem zergs v empty severs.

I look forward to kicking riversides kitten again this week.

Dempsey.8760:

GoneBatty.9048:

I made a thread about this actually, comparing Engie Snipers to Warrior Snipers. No offense, my fellow Warrior Brethren, but we do hit a bit too hard. As a warrior who has several other classes maxed out, including thieves, I like to stay unbiased and understand that balance is important.

Right now, Warriors have the highest ranged burst in the game. Period. The heavy armor class with base 18-20 k hp has the highest burst. They’re a sniper. A bit odd, right? a Ranger’s full culminated Rapid Shot can only do around 10-12 k and it has much less range!

The burst is just too high. A 20 k crit, which happens at times in WvW is sometimes more than a player’s entire HP pool. A Guardian that goes full defensive can and has been one shot by this ability.

But then you, oh great defender of the unbalanced, say ‘’Dodge. Reflect wall. Hmmm totally balanced now.’’ Well, good sir. Thieves can do a massive burst at close range, and be stealthed. At least they appear afterwards and a good player can slap their knob. A Sniper is nailing you from a tower wall, or 1500 range away while on a hill while you’re dealing with their friends and allies.

That burst is too high. It would be fine if it was say, 8 k at most, since the cursed thing PIERCES anyway, but being able to get 15 K+ on multiple opponents using one ability is….Wait for it…Unbalanced!

Well a few things here, rangers can do upwards of 20k in rapid shot, sure you can see the thief after its combo however, most are 1/2 dead or dead and; the shot can only peirce if traited for it.
Another thing to note it that even if peirced it travels in a straight line in a 3-D game the likelyhood of it hitting another is fairly low in all situations discribed, unless 1 unlucky individual happens to be under the ground or even lower on the hill.
Simply put its long animation grants a high pay off. A warrior takes a risk sitting still that long thus it hits hard, where as a thief takes risk of being close enough to combo, high pay off.

Rangers 20K with rapid shot????

No they can’t. They just can’t. What you’re doing is adding each number from RS together and goig ‘wowsas!’ – whats actually happening with rapid shot is that its a channelled ability where the num ber shown is the cumulative amount. So if the first hit is 600 and the next 1200 – tha’s not 1800, that is just 1200.

RS will hit a cloth wearing glass canon for 5-7k depending on the vagaries of the crit rng (as each part of the chanel rolls for crit independently).

So for reason s known only to some really drunk guy at ANET the ranged class is weaker than the melee class at range.

Anywho – I’ve hit the bandwagon and am levelling my warrior.

tldr = Kill Shot needs nerfing down to about 40-50% of its current damage.

I have a suggestion also.

Don’t bother and spend time fixing severely underpowered classes (IE ranger) rather than feeding them BS on their forum.

Unplayable events that lag other zones into unplayability plus a disasterous – and its up their in the top 5 – disasterous patch for rangers.

I was un der the impression this was a competant company. I seem to have been misled.

Ranger shelved. Warrior rolled.

Why Anet thinks a warrior with more health and more defense should be an infinitely superior ranged class than a ranger I am yet to work out….

frans.8092:

hellfish.6740:

… the self proclaimed champions of E-sports who will tell you “they have no problem with thieves”. These are probably all also thieves in disguise though.

Ah, and everyone complaining is just a troll posing as a noob?

I have a little bit of hope that ANet has their own objective ways to determine actual balance, rather then just counting the trolls and believing they´re genuine . I´ve paid the same as everyone, so I should be able to play as everyone and if ever I see “No thief” for an explorable, and this forum is an indication it is headed that way, it will be the last money ANet´s seen from me.

You do realise you’re not paying a subscription don’t you…..

No ability should hit that high irrespective of defence.

Not debuffed in any way and WHAM 15845 kill shot.

Really.

REALLY!

Oh my….

Dropper.9176:

Outnumbert on every map and less and less players in WvW every Time I give it a Try. This is one of the most boring Weeks I have the "pleasure " to play Gw2. WvWvW is too big and takes too much Time , Gw 2 needs a smaller BG ( 60 vs 60 / 2h) because i cant take this Mass zerg MMO no Skill 24/7 WvW any more.

Then my lil teutonic friend you are doing it wrong.

As a mass pvp game this is the most tactical one i’ve played in a long time. Beats Warhammer, that other game with pandas and rifts late to the table large scale efforts hands down. In fact thinking about it this is the most pvp fun I’ve had since DAOC. Now if only they’d add realm ranks i’d probably have a little accident in my pants.

Ah thieves you’re making a fundamental mistake – you can’t use the ‘you need to learn the class’ line because it takes 5 minutes to get into pvp on a thief and 5 minutes after that you’re facerolling to victory. Yes I’ve done that and anyone with more than 2 fingers can do so too with minimal effort – the thief is so hysterically overpowered its beyond laughable.

I look forward to this patch with much anticipation.

Whilst always liked ranks from DAOC one persons ‘zerg’ is anothers ‘large scale pvp’. And those were the best times I had in DOAC – when realms collided over massive prolonged keep sieges with hundreds on each side.

Need to do something about the ridiculous spin round and round immune whilst killing half a dozen people ability then poof back into stealth.

The thief is without question silly overpowered and we’ve been waiting too long for proper fixes.

The thing you forget is with everyone getting bumped to max in spvp and to 80 in wvw is it takes about 5 minutes to play a thief and another 10 more to realise how overpowered it is relative to any other class.

“Thieves are a complex and challenging class to play”

Jinks.2057:

Thieves are the easiest class to counter.

If you are having problems with thieves you need to delete and quit this game.

Yes – you roll a thief. then you have an equally overpowered class and don’t have to worry about imbalance, that your opponent will be permanently invisible, that he can drop any other class in 3-4s, that he can finish you in downed state from invisibility etc.

If you’d like to try the game on normal mode sometime before the next thief nerf drops try any other class. If you can’t cope with normal mode then im sure you’ll be one of the ragequitters later next week when the nerf lands.

Well riverside are, as always, completely lost without a cntral keep to hole up in and build 100 pieces of siege. Its funny – even when they break through the outer they go running round looking for all the siege to kill (even when theres none there) cos thats what they’d do…..

Miller are stereotypical germans. Keep throwing themselves at one point in huge numbers – hugely predictible, no imagination.

And as always the two german language servers are focusing the one english language one. Always the same….

Does any other class have a spammable ability that functions as both gap closer and escape, has 0 cooldown and hits for 4-6k?

If its fine for the thief perhaps all the ranged classes should have a ranged ability thats hits for 4-6k and jumps them back to max range everytime they use it on a 0 cooldown?

No? Does that sound grossly overpowered to you?

You roll a thief

Or the thief who just removed 75% of my health whilst invisible – then proceded to restealth whilst i was downed and 4*heartseeker spam me to death without popping out of stealth again.

Yes thats what the CL showed.

Its laughable you’re trying to argue this godmode class doesn’t need heavy nerfs.

Oh noes – no 18k backstabs?

I just dropped 90% of my health before i could react. No class should have that capability. 5-6k CnDs. 5-6k heartseekers (wooh yeah a spammable gap closer that doubles as an escape tool that does 5-6k – and thats not overpowered?) 5-6k and then some backstabs.

There is nothing difficult or weak about a thief. Its grossly overpowered, has been since launch and should have been nerfed much harder much earlier and we wouldnt be having this thread.

What zerg issue?

Does he mean large scale pvp? Y’know the entire point of this game……

Removing flashpoints on the map would be momentously stupid. Every other game with pvp added them at a later stage.

The whole idea is to get people to fight. Making it harder to do that is counterproductive.

Darkademic.2603:

Just some ideas. Comments/criticisms encouraged.

1.) Remove crossed swords from the map. They’re essentially zerg magnets which makes scouting much less important than it should be, and make it easy for zergs to quickly rush back and defend when required. Removing them would make attacking multiple objectives simultaneously more viable. Perhaps allow players to activate an alarm at objectives which will place swords over them or broadcast a message in chat (only if it is actually being attacked, and subject to a cooldown).

2.) Remove or increase the cap on the number of players that can be hit by siege AoE. This would make large bunched up groups much less effective. I’d probably remove the cap for catapult and trebuchet AoE since they are harder to aim at a group of players, and just increase the cap for arrow carts slightly since they’re so spammable (or remove the cap, but make it so players can only be hit by one arrow cart at a time). Being hit by a catapult or trebuchet shot should be something pretty devastating to a group of players.

3.) Make players do much less damage to doors (or possibly zero damage). This would mean a huge blob of players can’t just melee the door down as they can now, and would mean smaller groups can potentially break through as fast as large ones if they have the siege and the supply. Basically make siege weapons much more effective relative to players compared to now.

4.) Maybe add some sort of points bonus for taking multiple objectives within a short amount of time.

Soooo basically disable the concept of large scale wvwvw pvp…..

Ever grasp the idea that large scale pvp was kind of the point?

90 days is a little severe. 2-3 weeks would do it.