Guild Wars 2

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

pkbot.1345:

TSLlol.4879:

Hahahahahahah. I would have loved to watch you play ONLY Vanilla-WoW for 5 years straight.

That’s a slightly creepy comment, but yeah I played WoW for 5 years straight because the content and end-game progression they had in place was enough to keep me interested until they released new major content.

GW2 dropped off for me pretty quickly after hitting max level.

Yes, you played WoW for 5 years, by buying the expansions. I highly doubt you’ve played at the release of Vanilla WoW. It had half, or maybe even less of the endgame content Vanilla-GW2 has.

Yes I played vanilla WoW, and the 40 man raid on molten core, including the few end-game dungeons was more than enough. You know why? because the progression! GW2 could have a million dungeons, but they wouldn’t fun if there is no extra progression. This is why WoW Vanilla end-game was actually fun compared to GW2 Vanilla.

So you are saying you could be doing a fun dungeon, but it wouldn’t be fun because it lacks progressive gear drops?

egads.

No wonder MMO content is so stale.

Evelynddra.9265:

tic.7425:

Evelynddra.9265:

tic.7425:

Ald.9418:

tic.7425:

Ald.9418:

Sometimes i wish we’d go back to forced grouping to even level.

This would weed out everyone that refuse to be social and actually do stuff with other people.

Go back to?

really…

I don’t remember ever needing to be forced to group in any early MMOs.

You don’t remember having to be in a group and finding a camp to pull mobs to you as the only form of leveling? MMO’s existed before 2005.

Players were more like minded then and went out of their way to help others because they had to, otherwise they’d get nothing done. While i don’t miss the huge time sinks, i do miss this aspect.

2005, heh, i was playing them back in 1994 with Neverwinter Nights, then on to Ultima Online in ’97. I was never “forced” to group. Star Wars Galaxies, DAoC…

You could group to force pull mobs, probably helped you level faster, but you werent “forced” to. Which of these games were you playing that “forced” you to group?

I just commented, but I HAD to reply to this. Any game that wasn’t made in the West. Basically. Ragnarok Online, Maplestory, Shaiya, Priston Tale, Silkroad Online, Astonia 3 (I freaking loved this one, shoutout to anyone who may have played it!), EQ (not sure on this, correct me if I’m wrong), Runescape, Aion (at launch, unsure of grind status now). I am positive there’s more, but I can’t remember them all. Keep in mind, some of these may have changed since I played. Also some do have quests; leveling was mainly done by mob grinding though.

Interesting, can safetly say i don’t believe i played any of those games other than Aion (i remember levelling solo at times in that game), they weren’t really my speed.

The original person i commented on, gave (at least to me) the impression that back in the day, the only way to level in MMOs was forced grouping, which i thought simply wasn’t true, and definetly not in any games i played, thats why asked for examples. I wasn’t completly doubting it, just doubting thats the only way it used to be.

Though i was never a fan of korean grinders, so that might explain some things. Regardless, i can go back to ’94 with no forced grouping.

/shrug

Ah, I read his comment as more of a “these types of games have existed for ages, a good amount of them were grind only before 2005 (or before quests became the norn)”. When I first started playing MMORPGs (around the 2000s), I definitely mainly played ones that were grind only. I honestly never played one that wasn’t grindy until I started WoW when WotLK came out. A few were solely Korean types (Silkroad/RO), a couple were Western (Astonia3/Runescape), and some were Westernized Korean ones (Aion/Shaiya). Grindy games are definitely something commonly found in Korean MMOs, but there are some Western that do. Just far less.

Well, theres a difference between grindy, and being forced to group to level, which is what he mentioned.

Like i said, i never played those, but were you unable to even level unless you had a group with you? I find that pretty odd.

Evelynddra.9265:

tic.7425:

Ald.9418:

tic.7425:

Ald.9418:

Sometimes i wish we’d go back to forced grouping to even level.

This would weed out everyone that refuse to be social and actually do stuff with other people.

Go back to?

really…

I don’t remember ever needing to be forced to group in any early MMOs.

You don’t remember having to be in a group and finding a camp to pull mobs to you as the only form of leveling? MMO’s existed before 2005.

Players were more like minded then and went out of their way to help others because they had to, otherwise they’d get nothing done. While i don’t miss the huge time sinks, i do miss this aspect.

2005, heh, i was playing them back in 1994 with Neverwinter Nights, then on to Ultima Online in ’97. I was never “forced” to group. Star Wars Galaxies, DAoC…

You could group to force pull mobs, probably helped you level faster, but you werent “forced” to. Which of these games were you playing that “forced” you to group?

I just commented, but I HAD to reply to this. Any game that wasn’t made in the West. Basically. Ragnarok Online, Maplestory, Shaiya, Priston Tale, Silkroad Online, Astonia 3 (I freaking loved this one, shoutout to anyone who may have played it!), EQ (not sure on this, correct me if I’m wrong), Runescape, Aion (at launch, unsure of grind status now). I am positive there’s more, but I can’t remember them all. Keep in mind, some of these may have changed since I played. Also some do have quests; leveling was mainly done by mob grinding though.

Interesting, can safetly say i don’t believe i played any of those games other than Aion (i remember levelling solo at times in that game), they weren’t really my speed.

The original person i commented on, gave (at least to me) the impression that back in the day, the only way to level in MMOs was forced grouping, which i thought simply wasn’t true, and definetly not in any games i played, thats why asked for examples. I wasn’t completly doubting it, just doubting thats the only way it used to be.

Though i was never a fan of korean grinders, so that might explain some things. Regardless, i can go back to ’94 with no forced grouping.

/shrug

You couldn’t have just posted this in one of the other 7 or so threads covering this exact same thing on the front page alone?

marnick.4305:

I don’t really get it. You guys seem to hate dungeons so much, yet I consider them the best content in any mmo. Dungeons are loads of fun and in GW2 they’re actually very accessible. In WoW this monthly would be Kill Ragnaros twice.

Not everyone enjoys the same thing??

Ald.9418:

tic.7425:

Ald.9418:

Sometimes i wish we’d go back to forced grouping to even level.

This would weed out everyone that refuse to be social and actually do stuff with other people.

Go back to?

really…

I don’t remember ever needing to be forced to group in any early MMOs.

You don’t remember having to be in a group and finding a camp to pull mobs to you as the only form of leveling? MMO’s existed before 2005.

Players were more like minded then and went out of their way to help others because they had to, otherwise they’d get nothing done. While i don’t miss the huge time sinks, i do miss this aspect.

2005, heh, i was playing them back in 1994 with Neverwinter Nights, then on to Ultima Online in ’97. I was never “forced” to group. Star Wars Galaxies, DAoC…

You could group to force pull mobs, probably helped you level faster, but you werent “forced” to. Which of these games were you playing that “forced” you to group?

Ald.9418:

Sometimes i wish we’d go back to forced grouping to even level.

This would weed out everyone that refuse to be social and actually do stuff with other people.

Go back to?

really…

I don’t remember ever needing to be forced to group in any early MMOs. Also, just because i don’t want to group with you, doesn’t mean i’m not social..

I always thought these monthlies and dailies were to reward folks for not doing things they typically do.

I do a lot of WvW and think it would be ridiculous if monthlies didnt get me to explore other parts of the game.. but i guess thats just me.

RanTiannai.1592:

tic.7425:

RanTiannai.1592:

tic.7425:

RanTiannai.1592:

What i’ve gleaned from this thread is you want special treatment for choosing not to play a large chunk of the game.

i play all aspects of the game, and think it would be a great idea to reward PvP dailies with a laurel.

Why not?

I’m contributing to all aspects of the game, I’m sure thats part of ANets goal, no?

You are also not the originator of this thread, who gives a different impression. It’s still a PvE reward, so i’m not sure why you’d want it for PvP. I don’t get glory for doing PvE things, so why would you want Laurels for doing PvP things. I don’t complain about not getting glory either, because I make the choice not to participate in PvP. That’s the crux.

Perhaps, but your impression is that he wants to get special treatment for skipping parts of the game.. Well I’d like that treatment as well, and i don’t skip anything.

I can use those rewards in WvW, which contrary to popular belief is PvP, but thats here nor there. I do think though, that if you were to reward folks with laurels for PvP, you might find more folks doing it, nothing wrong with that.

Sorry, but the game counts WvW as PvE instead of PvP regardless of whether it is in practice or not. So, by doing things in WvW you’re still going to get progress towards your dailies and your point is now moot.

It is?

I believe my point was, that i think offering them for SPvP, you would probably get more folks involved in that aspect of the game, which is win/win.

But since you say my point is moot, it must be so.

RanTiannai.1592:

tic.7425:

RanTiannai.1592:

What i’ve gleaned from this thread is you want special treatment for choosing not to play a large chunk of the game.

i play all aspects of the game, and think it would be a great idea to reward PvP dailies with a laurel.

Why not?

I’m contributing to all aspects of the game, I’m sure thats part of ANets goal, no?

You are also not the originator of this thread, who gives a different impression. It’s still a PvE reward, so i’m not sure why you’d want it for PvP. I don’t get glory for doing PvE things, so why would you want Laurels for doing PvP things. I don’t complain about not getting glory either, because I make the choice not to participate in PvP. That’s the crux.

Perhaps, but your impression is that he wants to get special treatment for skipping parts of the game.. Well I’d like that treatment as well, and i don’t skip anything.

I can use those rewards in WvW, which contrary to popular belief is PvP, but thats here nor there. I do think though, that if you were to reward folks with laurels for PvP, you might find more folks doing it, nothing wrong with that.

RanTiannai.1592:

What i’ve gleaned from this thread is you want special treatment for choosing not to play a large chunk of the game.

i play all aspects of the game, and think it would be a great idea to reward PvP dailies with a laurel.

Why not?

I’m contributing to all aspects of the game, I’m sure thats part of ANets goal, no?

knives.6345:

Thank you all for the wonderful insights – but still no one has answered the main question:

If we define grind as a repetitive task…

“what else do you do inside the game that is “not a grind”?”

Everything else.

I have been playing MMOs since 1994 in Neverwinter Nights, I don’t remember once, ever “grinding”. Thta goes through Ultima Online, DAOC, SWG, all of em.

Grinding for you may be a repetative task, but for me, its doing something i don’t want to be doing. I’d much rather do the things i want to be doing in a game, that way its not a grind, its enjoyable, crazy concept, i know….

You want me to collect 1000 bear kitten for some shiney new ring, and expect me to go out day after day after day to kill bears till my brain is numb?? really? thats not going to happen. I wouldn’t do that if they were paying me to p[lay their game.

People complaining about grinding, are more than likely doing things they don’t want to do, to show off their new shiney in some virtual online world… and paying money to do it… its sad really.

Stop doing what you don’t want to do. MMOs may turn out to be a lot more fun, and perhaps give developers a clue about making games “fun” instead of a “grind”.

Carmondai.6013:

Fair enough, seems you like the game mechanics or the setting better then?

I was aiming for an average result. Even now, WOW has more active players than GW2, and if it was free, that would be even more significant. That´s all I wanted to say, your personal preferences (same as mine) are not really relevant for what I wanted to express.

Theres a lot i like better, i might even go so far as to say all of it, but thats just me.

I think the word you were looking for was “popular”. WoW is certainly that.

Sort of like Justin Beiber. :-p

Carmondai.6013:

Expressing one´s opinion is fine, but it just gets a certain meaning when you can use (logical) arguments and facts to support it…

Stating that GW2 is the best MMO is fine at least by me, if you add that it´s the best free to play MMO. Otherwise, without having played it, I think WOW would crush it.

Thats just silly..

Is GW2 the best MMO i ever played? No.

But its a lot better than WoW, at least for me. “best” can be a matter of opinion.

I actually kinda like the game, one of the better MMOs that have come out in some time… ok, a really long time, in my opinion.

I could probably make a list just as long as yours for any MMO out right now, and any that come out in the the not too distant future.

Is it perfect? nope, what i like most about these games, is they continue to grow over time. Perhaps check back later

I will…

I don’t care for instanced dungeons, so why would i do them if i don’t enjoy it? Especially if theres other methods of getting what i would need.

People constantly complain about “grind” in MMOs, then go off and do things they don’t want to be doing, to get some pixelated piece of armor as though it were some sort of status symbol (in an online world to boot). Its almost ridiculous, really.

Stop doing things you don’t want to be doing, and MMOs probably won’t be as grindy.

I agree, I’m glad they are offering it in WvW as well.

I really don’t want to see ridiculous “tiers” of gear however. Its somewhat nice to be on the same footing when PvPing in WvW. Its amazing how much better of a PvPer i have become, when someones not 3 armour and 4 weapon levels above me…

I was such a “NOOB!1!1!” back then, and my “SuxXor” level was pretty high as well, or so i was told.. Now, not so much

I thought i had lost my touch since the UO days, maybe age was creeping up on me… naaa. It was their gear.

Omniwar.4985:

I just fear the game will slowly die without content for more dedicated (hardcore) gamers, we need raiding and it should be filthy hard with great looking bind on equip items. That way the casuals and terrabads that dont want to or cant raid can buy their new shinies from the market for the coins they go doing their casual stuff.

Curious, what exactly makes you more dedicated (hardcore), raiding scripted events, than me raiding the borderlands for the good of my entire server? I play casually, and probably do more for my server than you ever would hiding in a dungeon with your spreadsheets, youtube, and your “dedication”. Maybe its because i perhaps play a little less than you that I’m casual? Maybe its because I find raiding the most monotonous aspect of MMOs ever created that I’m “terrabad”?

Its just boggles the mind how any MMO ever survived without raiding, eh? Since this one will “die” if it weren’t to get it.

Its post like yours that turn me off to an aspect of MMOs that i already don’t care for.

ATTHWSM.7840:

Lol. Carebears in GW2…. amazing MMOS like EQ2 and WoW CONTINUE to run for what? almost 10 years? as PAY to PLAY… because they realized that its hardcore gamers are the ones sticking around.

They make end game for them, because they know the hardcore gamer, the best of the population, is the one spending more time and effort than everyone else.

GW2 endgame is a joke. You hit 80, LITERALLY buy the best gear in the game for 20 gold, complete every dungeon half asleep,complete the map and then what? Make an alt? For what? to do the same thing again? GTFO.

Add some gear rewards for people that want them, its not gonna make a casuals gameplay any worse.

I crush FotM 30? Gimme better gear, so I can go and clear CoE 1-3 in 30 minutes. How does that affect a casual players game play? You can go still fail at dungeons, you can still craft, you can still do DE’s… Ill just be doing more.

End.

While your list of “hardcore” MMOs is very impressive, and I’m sure your experience in the genre is equally something to behold, I would have to argue one of your points if I may?

If you get better rewards for doing your “hardcore” gaming, by slicing down that scripted dragon, well, eventually you could, accidently of course, end up in WvW, defending your realm from an oncoming horde of actual free-thinking gamers. There is also a chance, that you and I could meet while roaming the back roads trying to help our own realm, by perhaps trying to get some supplies to defend one of our towers.

After me, in my casual, carebear playmode, beat you senseless while you weild your “uberswordofBBqSaUceneSS”, you could very well come back to these very forums and have (another) rant how you need a brand new “swordofevVEnmoReBbQsauCiness” or perhaps that my class is OP!!!! and needs a NERf!1!! because there is no way someone as “hardcore” such as yourself should ever lose to a casual carebear such as well, me..

So if you wouldn’t mind sir, could you spare us causal, carebears your hardcore wraith of awesomeness, and perhaps leave us pathetic dregs of MMO gaming a single non-hardcore game, so that we may have a place to sing kumbyayah together?

ummm…

End?

(is that how i do it?)

Zeldain.5710:

tic.7425:

Zeldain.5710:

As an MMO, Guild Wars 2 pales in features that bring a guild together to play and overcome obstacles and progress as a team. You know, the core stuff an MMO is supposed to be good at.

Really?

That whole WvW thing of taking over keeps/towers/forts etc. from an enemy that can bring thought and common sense to the battle, can’t bring guilds together? Those aren’t obstacles? And can’t let your guild progress as a team?

hmm…

I’d say most MMOs pale in comparison by that standard alone.

Hehe, common misconception.

Explain what guild progression there is in WvW? There is nothing that coordination does in WvW that a zerg doesn’t overcome. It’s truly, truly empty game design.

This game is shallow as an MMO. There’s really no getting around that.

Ahh, i thought you meant progress as a guild as in getting better at your objectives, silly me.

If all you think there is in WvW is zerg, then perhaps there is more you and yours can learn, maybe you should give it more practice. I’ve seen some smaller guild groups do some amazing things in WvW, but you obviously want scripted events to bring your guild together.

We’ll just call it guild progression, and “togetherness”, you just don’t want to do, but to say it doesnt exist just simply isn’t true in my opinion. Unless your just looking for some type of pixels as a reward.

/shrug

Zeldain.5710:

As an MMO, Guild Wars 2 pales in features that bring a guild together to play and overcome obstacles and progress as a team. You know, the core stuff an MMO is supposed to be good at.

Really?

That whole WvW thing of taking over keeps/towers/forts etc. from an enemy that can bring thought and common sense to the battle, can’t bring guilds together? Those aren’t obstacles? And can’t let your guild progress as a team?

hmm…

I’d say most MMOs pale in comparison by that standard alone.

Aristio.2784:

Nevermore.5487:

Smart? The game is losing players drastically and it barely came out. While competitive games like dota 2 who are still in frigging beta make so much money that they can host 1, 5 million dollar tournaments every year. You just can’t make the game successful by pleasing casuals because they are like women, you give them everything they want, they get bored and leave for the next big thing. What keeps the game alive is hard work and dedication which comes from “hardcore”, or competitive players that constantly have something to challenge them. My friends have all already left because of lack of pvp while I’m on hiatus myself still believing that naive chant “Anet will keep their words, this will be an e-sport someday”

You can’t loose players with no subs. Players who bought and “quit” can come back anytime they wish and it won’t cost them a cent.

How big is the niche “hardcore” group anyways? 50k? 100k players? 200k?

Define hardcore would be the better question… :p

well, other than if you play less than me you’re casual…. and if you play more, you have no life and are “hardcore”.

Scootabuser.4915:

This is a nice friendly game where in everyone wins and no one cries

Really?

because my server is getting beat down in WvW and it doesnt really feel like winning, at all :p

Eviscera.9703:

The thing you don’t understand is… Why wouldn’t both be possible? The game provides good gameplay for less competetive players, but nothing for competetive players? You naysayers are looking at it in a wrong perspective. If you want to play for fun, then fine you do that. But don’t stop other players from having their own way of fun.

Naysayers?

Honestly?

I’d call myself more a realist. This isn’t the hardcore game you’re looking for, and it was billed as such from the beggining.

This isn’t the “hardcore” game you were looking for. A bit of research before purchase would have revealed that, imo.

The game is still fairly new, new things, updates, etc, will be coming, and you can always check back later with no need for any more committment on your part than you have already given. That is if it bothers you that much.

I tend to look past some negative things in games, if theres enough positives, which is where i fall here. Give it some time.

I’ve always thought of a “grind” as continuously doing something you don’t want to do, or at the least, doing something you aren’t having fun doing.

I love PvP, can do it everyday, and never consider it a grind.

Killing the same mob over and over hoping for some rare drop(s)? Monotonous, no thanks. Why people decide they want to grind i have no idea, for some silly pixels, for some internet bragging rights? I’d rather do something i enjoy, but i hope you have “fun”.

maddoctor.2738:

tic.7425:

maddoctor.2738

What’s wrong in requesting something “challenging” in a game? I already explained above why the Open World can never be challenging, so the only “solution” is dungeons, or instances in general, and “dungeons that involve lots of players” are generally refered to as “raids” for whatever reason.

It’s not the Raids that are killing the game. It’s the lack of any challenge, the game is so easy to the point of being a brainless grind. It’s more like “work” and “loot” and “grind”, words that people are associating with raids, than any raid! At least if you have to actually THINK while you play, the grind effect can be lessened, at least if the content is challenging, they could get away with better RNG chances.

Because it typically doesn’t end with “challenging”. It invariably leads to, my guild is "working " harder, our rewards should be better.

Which is also fine, depending on the definition of “better”. Guilds able to “show off” for doing something in a game shouldn’t be considered “bad”, why should it?

I always say that exclusive gear (stat-wise, not skin-wise) is out of the question, and Anet knows that by now and won’t do the same mistake again (I hope)

But, giving players, and more importantly guilds, something to stand out, like a title for all of their members that defeated a powerful foe, or other guild boosts shouldn’t affect anyone, right?

I agree, we had this discussion yesterday

I’m just stating what (i believe is) the mindset of most non-raider types. This is why (i believe) so many are against it, just past experience with raid games, and you can’t blame them (us) really.

I still wonder how many are on the same page, and what these boards would like if “raids” were put in, with the examples discussed given as rewards.

edit: as already mentioned above by Ganzo, “only skin or title, are not desirable to the audience that want raids”.

Challenging is not enough.

maddoctor.2738

What’s wrong in requesting something “challenging” in a game? I already explained above why the Open World can never be challenging, so the only “solution” is dungeons, or instances in general, and “dungeons that involve lots of players” are generally refered to as “raids” for whatever reason.

It’s not the Raids that are killing the game. It’s the lack of any challenge, the game is so easy to the point of being a brainless grind. It’s more like “work” and “loot” and “grind”, words that people are associating with raids, than any raid! At least if you have to actually THINK while you play, the grind effect can be lessened, at least if the content is challenging, they could get away with better RNG chances.

Because it typically doesn’t end with “challenging”. It invariably leads to, my guild is "working " harder, our rewards should be better.

Still have a lot of content to get through yet. Jumping puzzles, exploration, DEs.. Tossing SPvP and WvW in there as its my favorite stuff to do.. yea I’ll be fine.

Gehenna.3625:

tic.7425:

Gehenna.3625:

tic.7425:

You want raids? No problem. Why cant the rewards be guild titles, armor skins, weapon skins, PvE guild perks (to do your next “tier”), i don’t know, but can we please stop with the epic lootz, at least in one decent MMO?

The loot subject is not the same as loot. GW2 already has the epic loot called ascended and there is nothing set in stone that there won’t be any gear progression. Also because more levels will be added later on.

So raids or not, the loot issue you fear is already there.

As Maddoctor already said, I believe Anet already realized their “mistake”, and with it coming to WvW shortly, I’m hoping theres limits to what we see in the future.

Anet have realised their mistake in that, but that doesn’t mean they have a good solution for it. Will they let people wear Ascended gear at lower level? I dunno. What will happen when you go to PvE? Will you have to (un)equip every time you move from one to the other? Will there be WvW only gear like sPvP? Maybe you know, I haven’t seen the details yet.

But gear progression is here, perhaps a bit slower but it’s here. I’m just saying it’s odd to fear the coming of something that is already here. I am sure the next thing will be tiered infusions, for example.

Time will tell but Anet have made a number of bad decisions, that are odd at best. Perhaps they will do better now, perhaps…

I don’t know the answer either, I do know they seemed to have tried to fix this with making ascended available in more than just FotM.

“Fear” is a strong word, I’ll wait and see. Oddly enough, i have some faith that things will work out. If not, theres other places to go (coming soon enough i should say), and I’ll take my money’s elsewhere, and hope for the best there.

/shrug

Gehenna.3625:

tic.7425:

You want raids? No problem. Why cant the rewards be guild titles, armor skins, weapon skins, PvE guild perks (to do your next “tier”), i don’t know, but can we please stop with the epic lootz, at least in one decent MMO?

The loot subject is not the same as loot. GW2 already has the epic loot called ascended and there is nothing set in stone that there won’t be any gear progression. Also because more levels will be added later on.

So raids or not, the loot issue you fear is already there.

As Maddoctor already said, I believe Anet already realized their “mistake”, and with it coming to WvW shortly, I’m hoping theres limits to what we see in the future.

maddoctor.2738

tic.7425:

And this is why i believe a lot of folks that don’t want raids in this game feel the way they do.
Once added it will (obviously) bring raiders to the game, and the next step becomes “loots”, “DKP” , “work” and all the rest….

And haven’t reached that “step” yet? What do people actually do as “end-game” now? Park your character where the dragon spawn and join in, spam1 for a few minutes and get the loot, or go farm around Orr for Lodestones, forming a huge mindless zerg, that takes care of “loots” and “work” parts of your argument

What do i do as end game? WvW…

and having a blast, thanks.

Look, you want raids? More power to you, I hope you get them. What i really don’t want to see is this never ending gear chase that just spreads like a cancer throughout the game once it starts.

I don’t care how they do it, i just don’t want gear tiers in my PvP. Its honestly incredible how much more kitten i kick in pvp when i’m on even footing with my opponent.

I’m so selfish, i know

You start the crap with epic loots, DKP, and all the rest, and it starts to rear its ugly head in WvW. Either you and your loots join WvW and i’m outgunned, or they start to add these ridiculous tiers of PvP gear, and even footing is out the window.

You want raids? No problem. Why cant the rewards be guild titles, armor skins, weapon skins, PvE guild perks (to do your next “tier”), i don’t know, but can we please stop with the epic lootz, at least in one decent MMO?

maddoctor.2738:

Red Falcon.8257:

Also, I’m pretty tired of MMOs who lock you into instances.
Anet was wise to decide to expand on open world content with these patches, because seriously this is a Massively multiplayer game not a 5/10 man game.

The problem with open world is that it lacks any real challenge. Also with the way they distribute loot in the game (no “shared” loot) they have to use terrible RNGs to keep it balanced.

For example, in a typical raid, the big boss either drops a few powerful items or a token that can be exchanged for the best items. These items have 100% chance of dropping, but bosses only drop a limited amount of them, so organized guilds need a way to distribute that loot appropriately, for example with a version of a DKP system. This creates a sort of progression for the team/guild instead of the individual.

In Guild Wars 2 on the other hand, there is absolutely no team progression, just plain luck. If you are lucky, you progress, if you are not, you will spend ages and not get anything.

While the system of Guild Wars 2 is nice for pugs, should everything in the game be doable by pugs as easily as it is now? Shouldn’t there be something to motivate guilds to work towards a higher goal? Loot doesn’t need to change, same loot in both “open world” and “raid” version, just in the second one, a lot better chances for it.

When I read about their Guild Missions I was excited, for a few seconds, until I read the rest of the text. So, Guilds will start these missions with 10-15 people around, organize to defeat them, and a random someone that just spams 1, will get some contribution, while the Guild actually defeats the content with strategy/tactics (unless they are like the events we have now, brainless) and has his own share of the same loot… And with how RNG the game is, that random might well end up with a precursor or something, while the 15 guild members end with porous bones.

Why is this “fair” to guilds and organized players? Why join a guild or start a party with regulars/friends in this game? There is no reason for it, just go randomly, follow the zerg, spam1 and get the loot. That’s how it is now, anything else is getting punished, by not getting anything for doing it.

And this is why i believe a lot of folks that don’t want raids in this game feel the way they do.

Once added it will (obviously) bring raiders to the game, and the next step becomes “loots”, “DKP” , “work” and all the rest….

I have no problem with large scale pve content. I probably would never do it, though im sure it would attract players that do, to the game. More players is honestly better for everyone

My only problem would be, it would more than likely also attract those who want better rewards for their “work”, and something akin to a trinity, which would lead to some serious forum whinning.

SAtaarcoeny.8476:

if ppl tell u its a dueling server and u dont want to duel get out.

i dont understand why you want to be somewhere ur not wanted and apparently dont want to be.

this game doesnt need anet to waste time making a dueling system when we can go into servers and duel we need them putting in a 1 team v 1 team ranked system with all 5 maps on rotations.

Get out?

hmmm..

Its red, its dead…

Sounds to me like you you should be asking anet to make a dueling area. I would love one, especially after i have hot joined about three or four different matches, only to run into people dueling. I am typically willing to try a few different times, but eventually, I just get a bit impatient i guess

Frotee.2634:

…people, remember this: Monthly Achievements are entirely optional.
If you don’t like what’s incorporated this month, don’t do it. End of story.

And maybe thats just it..

Perhaps they’re switched up, so people try different parts of the game. If its something you don’t like, move on. Believe it or not, everyone doesn’t like what you like.

If its something you (generalizing) have already done, like finding jumping puzzles, and you don’t feel like going back, move on. Not everyone has found them already, not everyone has done them. It leads folks out there to try things they haven’t done before, or haven’t thought of doing. You aren’t the focal point of the game, there are other folks out there.

Shocking i know.

Aphix.9846:

This is not arguable – the achievement is just simply stupid, I could think of 100 better ones in a minute. I’ve done all of the JP’s and revisiting them is by far the most pointless thing I could think of tbh. Events = profit (gold, karma), wvw kills (badges and fun), fractal (profit and fun anyway imo) etc…
Now JP’s = Massive 100% braindead waste of time, I’ve done them all and they are NOT fun the 2nd time you ‘discover them’ (lol what the kitten??)…
Truely shows how incompetent some people are, honestly…if I was trying my hardest to think of a really bad monthly achievement – I wouldn’t even come up with that, that takes some skills to make up smth that bad.

Sounds to me like this monthly isn’t for you then.

I know this may sound incredible, but perhaps not everyone has discovered all the jumping puzzles, baffling i know. A lil motivation to get those folks out there to have a looksie, and get them all up to your level of awesome.

You could just skip it if its that painful for you.

They should just sticky this post and leave the month blank. Anytime they switch something up, people are going to come here and complain, its sad really..

I like they change it up some, even if it sometimes has something i don’t particularly like doing. I’ll get over it.

/shrug

Zeldain.5710:

Bastion.2457:

Zeldain.5710:

Bastion.2457:

Don’t try and force what? I love this game, and it gives me everything I want from an MMo and a single player game.

It is you that seems to have incorrect expectations of a game you don’t seem to like.

No issues here

No, you don’t like MMOs. If you don’t like people, and MMOs were designed to be played with people, then you don’t like MMOs.

If fails as an MMO precisely BECAUSE of the things you like about it, and that’s why player engagement has tumbled.

So based on the game that actually exists and is real, and loved by loads of people, and I love too, I am wrong, based on your opinion of a game that does not exist, isn’t real, and isn’t at all available?

What you are saying is I am wrong for liking the game as it was designed, and you are right for hating it because it wasn’t designed how you expect games to work?

I’m not telling yo that you don’t like the game. You like the game.

Others like the game.

But it is not liked as an MMO by players that love MMOs. That is where it is failing.

The Fractals, Ascended gear, etc… why you think they did that? They are trying to remedy it.

Is what you are saying is the game isn’t liked by MMO players that love gear treadmills?

Those aren’t the only kinds of MMOs, and theres plenty out there to choose from if thats what they are looking for.

Regardless of that…

I love MMOs, if theres such a thing, but they don’t all have to be the same, and i don’t have to like them all…

MMOs should just get rid of exclusive/promo and perhaps, rare type items, as it leads to threads like this.

“wheres mine?”

uhg.

I play the same way as the OP, and I am glad Arenanet took this approach.

Oddly enough, i have been playing MMOs this way dating back to ’94 with with Neverwinter Nights, played the exact same way in Ultima Online and then Dark Age of Camelot. I never once felt behind the curve in any of those games.

I find it amusing how folks say MMOs are not for casuals, and we should be playing single player games. I’ve been playing MMOs casually longer than most probably have a been playing games altogether.

I’ve always thought if you’re a “hardcore” gamer, MMos are probably not for you, there isn’t enough content to keep you entertained, unless maybe the game is older. Though a focus on PvP would help, if thats your thing.

/shrug

lordkrall.7241:

Moddo.7105:

You know Every game that has failed people have said this. Do you know that you are doing Anet no favors by you falling into typical human reaction of thinking you are in the majority. Same thing happened to GoP during last election and is still happening. People think their views are only right ones and thus everyone must have them. So from now on state your opinion and leave it at that. Don’t make up fantasy situations that you can have no idea if true or not.

You know WoW have this and yet it is very much alive.
Every single game ever released have these kind of things. Both games that “failed” and games that are to this day going strong.

Sure, but an informed consumer will look at all aspects.

It was pretty clear that (as per your example) WoW had negative feedback, but was also still gaining in popularity. Whereas games such as Warhammer and TOR and shockingly enough pre-cu SWG (as a few examples) were not.

Heres hoping GW2 falls under the former.

/shrug

As to the OP, if you like it, stick with it, its still a “young” MMO, with lots of room to grow.

I have a mesmer that i enjoy, and would give him 7’s or 8’s across the board.

I haven’t played him much since the patch, as my time has been limited, so i’m hoping things aren’t in as bad a shape as some seem to think.

I do however have a real problem with my alts. I really can’t stay interested in any other classes in this game, they really seem sort of boring.

Its probably just me. I was really looking forward to losing the trinity, but it really seems as though the classes are all so similiar to me. That part is very difficult for me to explain i guess, because obviously an engineer does not play like a warrior.

I think part of my problem is i really like to play support, perhaps more than i thought before purchasing, and in a game where it seems dps is boss, i am really having a difficult time finding enjoyment. There are support characters of course, but dropping a banner then moving on to dps (as one example) isn’t really drawing me in.

Cyric.7485:

tic.7425:

I didn’t realize there was a required time to play an MMO.

I’ve been playing them since ‘94 in Neverwinter Nights, then on to Ultima Online in ’97. Played UO pretty casually, and there was no content i couldn’t do on any given night.

Perhaps that game wasn’t “hardcore” enough to be considered an MMO?

/shrug

I really liked the direction this game was going, away from an internet fashion show in a sense. I hope they remain on that path..

I don’t recall NWN ever being an MMO and UO was an entirely different beast than GW2. Anyway, there is no specific amount of time that needs to be allotted to be eligible to play an MMO, that wasn’t what I was getting at. What I was saying is that any MMO, regardless of how casual friendly it supposedly is, requires a larger time investment than a single player RPG. So, if you’ve gone out and purchased an MMO and then decided to blame the company/game because you lack the time to play that’s just childish. To me, when GW2 is said to be casual friendly, it says to me there’s going to be a lot of easy no brain content so the majority of players will have a level playing field.

Also, this whole 2 hours are required nonsense is based off of people’s senseless fear mongering and incessant need to whine about a gear treadmill that doesn’t exist at the moment… so to me, this entire debate is pretty dumb to begin with.

GW2 is practically nothing more than a glorified fashion show, so I don’t quite understand your last sentence.

NWN was an MMO long before Bioware got a hold of it.

We were talking about MMOs yes? Ultima Online was/is an MMO, GW2 is an MMO, so i don’t understand the “different beast”, they are MMOs, same beast.

So “there is no specific amount of time that needs to be allotted to be eligible to play an MMO”, but don’t complain you don’t have enough time to play one? Is the key word here “specific” or “eligible”?

What exactly is brain content in an MMO?

Yes this entire debate is pretty dumb, the first post i made was to a fellow with bowel problems, and then yours which began with a “lawl” and then ended with an insult and a “lol”, perhaps its not the content of the debate itself?

My point about a fashion show was that its somewhat nice to play an MMO again that doesnt restrict content by what gear you are wearing. For some reason, and in my opinion only, the only way to an MMO can be “fun” these days, is by adding more gear.
Then we run the same dungeon ad naseum in the hopes that maybe, just maybe, our next “epic” piece will drop. yay! Now we have an MMO!

Its sad this is the only content “we” can come up with these days. Perhaps its because people expect to be able to play an MMO 30 (or so) hours a week, for months on end, and not get bored, which is sad in its own right i suppose.

Cyric.7485:

bow.6179:

I take kitten longer than 2 hours. This post is kittening dumb.

Lawl, seriously. Since when is it anyone else’s fault but your own that you lack the time and/or resources to play an MMO? Why are you playing an MMO if you don’t have time… to play an MMO?

I’m impressed some of you can even hold down a job or a social life while simultaneously deflecting your shortcomings onto everyone else, lol.

I didn’t realize there was a required time to play an MMO.

I’ve been playing them since ‘94 in Neverwinter Nights, then on to Ultima Online in ’97. Played UO pretty casually, and there was no content i couldn’t do on any given night.

Perhaps that game wasn’t “hardcore” enough to be considered an MMO?

/shrug

I really liked the direction this game was going, away from an internet fashion show in a sense. I hope they remain on that path..

bow.6179:

I take kitten longer than 2 hours. This post is kittening dumb.

every day??

You might want to have that checked

I have a wife, a daughter, and a full time job. If i were to spend two hours a day, every day in video game i would probably feel guilty.

That would mean i was spending just about as much time during the week developing my toon as i did spending time with my family. Between drive times, homework, basic chores, different schedules etc..

Everyones different course and weekends are a bit different as well.. 2 hours everyday during the week is just not even close to normal for me..

I don’t even know if would want to spend that much time in a video game if i could :p

Xenon.4537:

Casuals are fickle, whimsical, flaky, unreliable, annoying little kittenhats. It breaks my heart that developers are forced to hand tailor games to suit the casuals more and more every year just because they outnumber hardcore players. Casuals love to argue that they deserve all the accommodations because they are the majority. They don’t give two kittens if this means the game becomes cheapened, watered down, or dumbed down.

Here’s a thought: If you are too casual to keep up with any particular game, why don’t you go find a more casual game and stop trying to make all of the hardcore games less hardcore?

Heh,

I haven’t played a “hardcore” game since my Ultima Online days in 97, and i played it casually, go figure. Nothing i couldn’t do there. Owned my own smithy, hunted reds as an anti-pk, defending player towns from evil RP guilds, and when they took you out, they actually grabbed all of your “precious’s”

Todays “hardcore” games? Bleh, running the same dungeons ad naseum in some sort of virtual fashion show.

I really liked the direction this game had going for it, i hope they don’t alter it too much.

MrLee.6892:

Erasculio.2914:

MrLee.6892:

Just because YOU don’t like something doesn’t mean it shouldn’t exist. What about all the players who DO want it? Don’t you think they should have something they want also?

Maybe YOU shouldn’t play MMO’s?

Grinding is assuming you are no better than a horse chasing a carrot dangling from a stick in front of its face. Doing content you do not enjoy and in which you do not have fun just because it gives a shiny reward in the end is the same as lowering yourself to the level of a mindless animal.

I don’t know why so many players, who love traditional MMOs, fall for it. GW2 was being different in that it was dealing with their players as human beings. It appears players don’t want to be treated as human beings and instead see themselves more as mindless animals, but I’m still surprised that ArenaNet changed its mind so soon.

Grinding is bad. It’s bad design, and the fact it sells – or used to sell, considering how almost all recent MMOs have failed – doesn’t change how it’s bad design.

heh I had to LOL on this one!

So what are the point of Dungeons then? I take it you don’t like to run dungeons?
Thats all they are is a grind! A grind to get the gear you want. All of you complaining and who run dungeons are already doing the gear grind but you don’t even want to admit it. Just in this case you are grinding for looks and not stats.

If you don’t like dungeons then what do you do? Level alts? (Grinding levels?)
You like to craft? (Gotta grind for mats).

Next time you call people mindless animals maybe you should take a look in the mirror.

Bingo!! (in a sense)

running dungeons over and over and over to progress, is dull and tedious.

but lets check their blog, shall we?

MrLee.6892:

Tyr.1965:

MrLee.6892:

Yes another person who gets it! GW2 is supposed to evolve!! Even though some people think this is ok.

This is an MMO! Things change good or bad. You have to accept it or leave. (And if you leave there isn’t one MMO out there that will have gear stay the same thru out it’s lifetime).

Why does the game have to evolve towards vertical progression when the game’s horizontal progression is the very thing that made it evolve past every other MMO on the market?

I swear the people defending this decision are probably the same crowd that cried on the WoW forums for change then jumped shipped to GW2 and are now crying for this game to become WoW. Stop ruining games with your flakiness.

Stop wanting the game to stay the same and never change. Go back to single player games if you don’t like it.

I don’t think folks mind change, but changing a game to be like ‘every other game’ out there may get nauseating to some.

Some are tired of playing the same ol same ol perhaps, and thats why they came here.