Guild Wars 2

Jornophelanthas.1475:

Why should a playstyle choice be rewarded over another, equally viable playstyle?

Apparently, my choice is a poor one in terms of rewards.
Apparently, my way of having fun is less worthy of loot.
Apparently, this game is not fair.

Apparently, you have never tried WvW.

Liquid.9672:

LOL we WvWers are such self loathers. “Wow I’m getting good rewards from WvW it must be broken!” I guess we’ve been overly programmed to not expect anything good.

Next forum thread: Is this loot an exploit? I don’t want to get banned!

VOLKON.1290:

titanlectro.5029:

I almost don’t want to say this here, but you can do a lot now without even triggering white swords (only gate/wall hits count).

You can kill all the cannons, oil, guards, defensive siege, and drop/build all the siege you want, without triggering white swords. By the time the white swords go up, it is already too late.

Even the guards?

Yup, blew my mind away too.

Supply camps trigger from the guards, but not towers or keeps. Last night, my guild did this several times. One time, we even took a garrison this way.

Give it a week, and team/say chat will be filled with:
“Don’t attack the door”
“Be careful with that aoe, pull the guards back”
“Don’t use the rams until they are all finished”
“Some noob hit the door!”

I almost don’t want to say this here, but you can do a lot now without even triggering white swords (only gate/wall hits count).

You can kill all the cannons, oil, guards, defensive siege, and drop/build all the siege you want, without triggering white swords. By the time the white swords go up, it is already too late.

Daemonne.5018:

titanlectro.5029:

I’m surprised how many idealists and wishful thinkers there are in this debate. Remember that this is a video game.

Wrong question: What do I want this change to do?
Another wrong question: What is this change intended to do?

Right question: How will people abuse this?

Whether or not you are asking the right question now, you will all be on the same page within the week, when abusing this becomes the meta.

This is the forums, the Ideal place for ideas and suggestions.

I must apologize, I don’t understand your point. Idealism and ideas may come from the same root, but they mean very different things.

I love ideas and suggestions, but every last idea and suggestion in a video game needs to pass the “How will this be abused?” test. Idealism ignores this question.

I’m surprised how many idealists and wishful thinkers there are in this debate. Remember that this is a video game.

Wrong question: What do I want this change to do?
Another wrong question: What is this change intended to do?

Right question: How will people abuse this?

Whether or not you are asking the right question now, you will all be on the same page within the week, when abusing this becomes the meta.

T7 is so much fun. Sure, there are less players, but here are the upsides.

1) Your contributions actually make a difference
2) Close knit server community
3) No queues
4) A lot less culling
5) Skill can sometimes trump numbers
6) Very few fair weather players

I’m really only speaking from my experience at GoM, but I’m pretty sure that HoD would say the same things, and also DH to a lesser extent.

DH, I hope you guys do well in T6. I honestly think you might win the tier. Just throw 50 more golems at them and watch them melt. If I had to guess (and this is little more than a guess), they will match your numbers, but I think your tactics will be better.

Say hi to AR and BP when you get there, we used to fight them constantly. In fact, I think a several of GoM’s former guilds are still over there.

Lazuline.3876:

Alright. I just have to say that GoM is doing a fine job of defending their keep thus far. We’ve [DH] been attacking it for 4 hours now. In no particular order…

1.) Trebs from Mendon
2.) Rams at Water Gate
3.) Trebs from Anz Hill
4.) Trebs from Island in the Lake
5.) Rams at Front Gate
6.) Catas at West Gate
7.) 15-Golem Rush (this one actually got us to the Lord Room)
8.) Second 10-Golem Rush
9.) More Rams at Water Gate

Clearly, you guys are determined to hold on the keep & Veloka Tower. Nonetheless, we will persevere. Good fight!

Edit: After a final 25-Golem Rush (Of which a few were Omegas), we were finally able to take GoM Keep! Well fought.

P.S. In the time we took to siege GoM Keep, HoD was able to retake their entire side of EB.

I wish I was there. That sounds like such a fun defense. Although, defending GoM BL last night was pretty crazy also.

So DH sent 50 Golems at GoM today, and HoD sent 30 at us yesterday. Here is hoping that you do not try to one up each other again… Wait, is there a golem slayer achievement?

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_vs_World_%28achievements%29
darn…

ShinjoNaomi.1896:

My oh my…
This entire thread is a perfect snapshot of the PvE vs PvP argument… The jumping puzzles in WvW just bring out the worst in people, I swear…

To the OP…
It’s a PvP zone, kid. While it’s nice to think that others will leave you alone and peace will hold sway in a Jumping puzzle while you run through it, the truth of the matter is, in the end it /is/ a PvP zone. They are well within their rights to attack you there. And really, coming here and making a tread about it does not help, and only gives fuel to the forum warriors and trolls…

To those responding negatively to the OP…
The reputation you all keep perpetuating… Angry little PvPers will be angry as they ‘Drink the bittersweet QQ of PvE Carebears!!’ and who for some reason can derive no pleasure from a game at all unless they are mindlessly slaughtering other people and then bragging about just how big they think their kittens are…
Really, the more I hear this silly type of nonsense the less I actually hear what they are saying, and instead just hear, ‘Ooo OOO! AHH AHH! >jumping up and down, chest-thumping!< LOOKIT MY BANANAAA!!’

Sore losers are bad, but sore winners are even worse, really…

Shhh…. your going to kill this most entertaining thread with all those correct ideas and logic and stuff. Brb, getting more popcorn.

CrassBippy.4619:

You don’t NEED orange swords to know where they are hitting, unless they uh, ninja something with 0 controlled things on the map. Otherwise you know that after tower A they will go for camp B or tower C

Umm… I don’t know where you got that idea, unless you have been fighting against supremely stupid servers. None of the servers in T7 are that dumb.

Predictable = dead

style.6173:

ANET’s mistake when charging for transfers was in basing it on server population. You can always guest on another server for PVE. That means the primary reason for transferring servers is WvW. Transfers should be based on tiers, something like this. The gem numbers would be the cost to transfer TO that tier.

Tier 1: 2500 gems
Tier 2: 2000 gems
Tier 3: 1500 gems
Tier 4: 1000 gems
Tier 5: 750 gems
Tier 6: 500 gems
Tier 7: 250 gems
Tier 8: Free

Exactly

You can guest to other servers for free. The only reason to pay for a transfer is WvW. So the pricing should be based on WvW…

EnRohbi.2187:

Okay,
I’m sorry to burst your bubble here,
But I think tier 8 needs a reality check.

The servers in tier 8 probably comprise something like 1-5% of the game’s total wvw population.

WvW is not, and never will be, balanced for tier 8.

You might be right about the T8 reality check (although personally I would not belittle their problems), but this is not just a T8 problem. It will definitely a T7 problem, and I’ve heard T6 say the same thing.

So we are talking about 9+ servers. Anet would not ban night capping, to show equal concern for the minority. I hope they show the same type of concern for the lower tiers.

An easy solution would be to base swords on percentage of active players. Swords would then scale for time of day, and server tier, automatically.

Example: Orange Swords are active if both conditions are true
1) > 20% of active players attacking
2) > 5 players attacking

Thor.1756:

As already pointed out, i feel sorry for the additional number of people who have to scout because of this change.

That being said, it’s still a good change because it encourages teamwork and cooperation (i.e. skill) over the game holding your hand.

And there are plenty of things to do as a scout besides just standing there, you can scout out towers/keeps while flipping camps, ganking dolyaks/sentries, flipping quaggles, and so on. It’s not the most interesting stuff in the world, but you’re not simply “standing watch”

If your doing something else, you are not on watch. A 24-man (or larger with people not attacking) can do a lot of damage before you run back, and then call for help. That 30-120 seconds can make ALL the difference. An effective watchman cannot be running around the map capping nearby stuff.

Heck, I would even be worried about having only 1 watchman for the garrison. By the time all the gates are checked, the alarm is sounded, and people get there, outer will be gone for sure. Remember that usually, white swords will be false alarms, so no one will mobilize anything until the watchmen puts out a firm warning.

There is a reason that the guards are NPCs, because standing around in a tower is boring, and this is a game. We are here to have fun. We let NPCs do the boring stuff.

So let the NPCs do the scouting please. Heck, it is not even scouting, it is standing watch. Scouting is fun, standing watch is not. I don’t want to be a watchman. Requiring watchmen adds nothing to the game, and only serves to make defense even more boring and even less rewarding.

What will happen when defense becomes more boring, less effective, and less rewarding? People won’t do it. Don’t kid yourself into thinking that it will “force” anything. People will just defend less. The game will become an offensive capping race.

lol swiftplus,

All I see there is a waste of three perfectly good golems for one tower. You know the breakout event is free, right?

Nice try on the troll though.

I’m not in game right now, but in the UI settings somewhere, you can turn on an in-game clock, and switch it over to server time mode.

TogoChubb.3984:

Haldunius.7864:

Togo, I’m not trying to be rude, but what you just described has been going on since the game was released. It comes down to what Lettucemode said and you allude to – this change will require more defense. I like that because in my mind it generates a more tactical experience. You don’t like (get ready for me to put words in your mouth) because you think it helps zergs. Both of us essentially agree on the design goal because easier work for zergs means more defense from tower holder, but you like vanilla and I like chocolate.

Defense should be promoted through rewards. This change would make defending a map almost impossible and would lead to noone wanting to spend their money on upgrades b/c structures will start flipping like camps. Without waypoints WvW will get real boring having to keep a group of 20 inside of each structure b/c you aren’t going to get help in time. i.e. breakout event was such a great addition to the game (/sarcastic comment). Let’s give offensive teams another buff? We have to be careful just looking at one perspective (Offensive or Defensive) such as from the zerg’s standpoint or the small group’s perspective. If we are to put the defensive team in a harder position then the reward system better follow suit or people will flea this game to another quickly.

I completely agree. This is not an issue of zerg vs small group. It is an issue of offense vs defense.

This change will suck in T7. All this will do is let entire zergs be ninja. (Yes, on T7, 20 people is a zerg, we are in T7 for a reason).

styx.7294:

Actium.8765:

Guess that’s what happens when some players in GoM start trash talking my guild. Some of my guild members have enen gotten whispers from some of GoMs players about how they hate us and that were garbage. Which is fine I guess.

Didn’t know anything about the ‘alliance’ since I was on duty yesterday and didn’t play at all. But my gf does text me so I know alil about whats goin on.

You can block and report them under verbal abuse, that shouldn’t be tolerated.

Agreed.

Please don’t whisper flame SE people.

Prosecutor.1457:

All your guild did was PvDoor. Don’t know if that is something you are proud of. As far as a it goes for SE and HoD specifically WvW guild, it was a temporary truce.

Maybe you need a history lesson but many empires in the old days have allied each other for a common goal. If you don’t like it, not my problem. I dont need the likes of another guild that types like Seal the Deal or never communicates. So continue to criticize the work that [SE] puts in. I can see it now, [SE] camping, calling for temporary truce. I bet the next thing we’re going to get called out for is taking advantage of culling.

Here is another lesson to be learned from empires in the old days: politics. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean that there won’t be a backlash. How you handle that backlash matters. So far, you have not done yourself any favors.

ouch

15 character limit

zastari.1730:

If it’s for everyone then why are those of us who like trash talking and flinging poo in shopping malls denied our due freedom ?

I specifically answered that question in my post. In fact, if my post had a title, it would be: “Why we must at times give up personal freedoms.”

If you are serious, go read the whole post. In the far more likely case that you are trolling…

Ungood.3054:

…Limited due to post length…

We have a Large Community:

GlassCannons and StealthTanks:

Accountability and Responsibility

Conclusion as a Company, it is an obligation to keep things proper, so when you know as a company, and a moderator, that is what you will be dealing with, there really is no benefit to relax the rules. It is better to keep the rules tight, taught and let the people who enjoy more loose rules can make their own site, or move off to another site and do their own thing.

I think, if Magumma enjoys trash talking they would profit greatly from perhaps having their own WvW Spat/Trash talk forum, who knows, you might get some people from the other worlds to kick it up with you, but normally, official sits and forums are not the place for that, too many kinds of people here.

+1 is not enough for this post.

The modern world is quick to break down social norms in the name of individualism and personal freedom (and often rightly so, just look at the history of the free world). But sometimes social norms are very important to keep society working, and this forum is no different. The forum rules are definitely limiting personal freedom (and therefore some people’s ability to have fun), but they are important.

Sometimes, one person’s “fun personal freedom” is another person’s pain. Imagine if I make a post which makes fun of women. Now I’m happily married, I love my wife deeply, and truly respect both genders. I (and my friends) know that I’m just joking, but do you? Perhaps you are a woman who has been abused. Do I tell you to just get over it and realize that I’m joking? Or do I limit my personal freedom and “fun” for the benefit of others? I hope that the answer is obvious.

If trash talkers want to start their own forum, where it is understood up front that everything is in good fun, go for it. But the official forums are for everyone who bought the game, not just the sub-set which are ok with trash talking.

It is honestly hard to figure out what is going on in this thread with all the deleted posts, but it sounds familiar enough. I remember when GoM took tons of flak because some people hacked on our server. People branded the whole server as hackers, and accused us all of being complicit. Of course, that couldn’t be further from the truth, GoM hated the hackers, and we are in T7 right now thanks to them (lost a lot of good guilds/players to “hacker rep.”)

So don’t blame DH. It is not their fault anymore than it is GoM’s fault that ARM likes to troll, or that people like to hunt in the JP, etc. No one controls the people on their server. It would be neat if a server community actually had enough social pressure to stop things like this, but it does not. The “community” is completely optional. The hackers may never even read all the complaints we have about their actions.

Tei.1704:

Is ARM a female human ele from a guild with kitten tag? I recall seeing a rather glassy ele from that guild who always seems to have two buffs. I also remember quite a bit of standing near invulnerable zones while spamming laugh and dance to goad people into attacking. The picture ARM posted reminds me of that ele. If ARM is this person, I can see why people ignore him.

Edit: Really, Anet? Durp (replace “u” with “e”) gets censored?

I’m pretty sure that is ARM, female D/D ele from DURP with an E.

ToSatellite.8295:

GoM, please keep your animals in line in the JP, we’ve been ambushed 3 times trying to complete it. Guilds are The Dungeon Crawlers [TDC] and [Fame], and to restate, they attacked us first, without being provoked. Thank you.

I’d love to do that, but as you know we have no more control over their actions than you do.

Speaking of no control over others’ actions, ARM has the dubious honor on GoM of being the most ignored person on the server (He is also the reason I learned how the ignore function works). He’s probably sad he cannot troll as many people in chat anymore and trolling here. You should all do what 90% of GoM already does, ignore him. CERTAINLY don’t let him spark a fight here, that is exactly what he wants.

A GoM/HoD vs DH week would be quite interesting. I know that we at GoM have made some great pushes into DH, but usually we lose momentum because we need to fend off opportunistic HoD (it’s a good tactic, no disrespect intended to HoD). I’m sure that HoD can tell similar stories from their perspective.

Our tier is essentially a prisoner’s dilemma for GoM and HoD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma). You never know if the other guys is going to “flip” and “rat you out.” The best outcome is if both people trust each other, but what usually happens is that both people flip.

This happens to us in T7 constantly, and every time GoM and HoD “flip” on each other, it benefits DH greatly. In theory, if GoM and HoD both leave each other alone, they could get first and second place, instead of just fighting over second. But you never know if you can trust the other guy, and so it usually turns into a battle for second place.

But all of this makes me intensely curious. If we could overcome the prisoner’s dilemma, would DH end up in third place? I would love to try it out for a week if everyone is on board.

(Edit: After a quick rereading of the Wiki link, I think this is not technically an official prisoner’s dilemma, because the benefit of both teams cooperating is actually better than if only one team betrays. Nevertheless, it is similar enough for the analogy to work.)

insanemaniac.2456:

titanlectro.5029:

1) Your argument is essentially that it couldn’t get any worse. Of course, that argument only applies to T8, whereas most of the other servers are much more balanced. But even in T8, it can get worse.

There are blowouts like you have been living with, and there are blowouts where you are spawn-camped on every map all the time. Perhaps you remember those? I do; there were entire weeks where we only got 10k points. They are worse than what happens to you right now, by far. It can most definitely get worse, and that is what will happen >50% of the time for ET and FC, the rest of the time you will only be destroyed like you are currently. Do you honestly think that will improve moral as you seek to prove yourself?

i was there for those bad blowouts. they were the work of an obviously t1-t3 server. the current blowouts are the work of a t5-t8 server, and the difference is smaller, but still very distinguishable. but i include t8 in there because we do not know how other servers will fare in t8 (having not played them for months, if ever), and we will not know because the system is broken.

a blowout is a blowout, and SF does not belong in t8 until we know for sure again that they cant stand on their own in at least t7. but we dont know. and we wont.

I agree. I was not trying to belittle the frustration in T8 at the moment. My comments were in response to the idea of a “everyone plays everyone” season format. I believe that this would be even worse than T8’s already painful situation.

Fozzik.1742:

What do you think it is right now? Blowout week after week is exactly what we have, with no change in sight…no possibility of something new or different.

The point is variety. The point is that you don’t know how any particular three-server match-up will turn out until you try it. There’s a reason why they play each NFL game during the season…even though one team is favored. They play, because there are too many variables for anyone to accurately account for in order to make an accurate prediction. That is true here as well. You can’t say who would win until you play the game.

I have to say that I disagree with you on both points.

1) Your argument is essentially that it couldn’t get any worse. Of course, that argument only applies to T8, whereas most of the other servers are much more balanced. But even in T8, it can get worse.

There are blowouts like you have been living with, and there are blowouts where you are spawn-camped on every map all the time. Perhaps you remember those? I do; there were entire weeks where we only got 10k points. They are worse than what happens to you right now, by far. It can most definitely get worse, and that is what will happen >50% of the time for ET and FC, the rest of the time you will only be destroyed like you are currently. Do you honestly think that will improve moral as you seek to prove yourself?

2) Sports are a bad analogy for how WvW works. I almost put this in my last post, but decided to leave it out.

If WvW were the NFL, then some teams would get to field 50 players at a time, and others only 8 or even 4. The season structure would be completely destroyed as games where decided by numbers and not skill. This is why football has rules to keep things fair and even. They even have rules which are intended to distribute players fairly (budget limits, drafting rules, etc). You never know how a game will go because they worked hard to make it that way.

The same cannot be said about WvW. You can make 100% accurate predictions in WvW. You can most definitely tell who is going to win without playing the game much of the time. No one would bet on a match between say, Kain vs ET vs FC. Everyone know what will happen, for sure, 100%. Unlike sports, there are no “errors” which cause lasting impact. Points are just reclaimed, and mistakes don’t take long to correct.

Score Update:
http://mos.millenium.org/matchups#NA

Millenium is quite accurate, even tells you when it was last updated.

Fozzik.1742:

I think the whole ranking system should go away, and we should set up a “season” system where everyone plays everyone else a few times, match-ups change every single week, the wins and losses are totaled, and a score is arrived at based on the quality of your wins and losses. Server rewards should be based on current score, and after each season, it should reset. This rankings system just leads to people feeling superior for no reason.

Wouldn’t this just result in “T8” servers getting destroyed by lots of different servers week after week?

If everyone plays everyone, “T1” servers would almost always win, “T8” servers would almost always lose. It might be good from an accurate rating perspective, but it would make WvW unfun 90% of the time. It would just be blowout after blowout after blowout…

Darek.1836:

I don’t undertand. Where are you coming with the terribly ignorant assumptions that SF wouldn’t win T7 at least? All history of T8 to T7 jumps point to the fact that T7 is no better if not worse than t8

I live on T7, and honestly, I don’t think SF could win the tier.

SF has been winning for a while now. In my experience, blowouts do not help a server learn or grow. It makes them stupid (no offense intended). I’ve seen it happen to my server GoM, many times. I always cringed when we had a blowout in our favor, because I knew tough times were ahead and we would forget how to fight out-manned. Now perhaps SF handles blowouts better than GoM, I don’t know because I’m not on T8. (Before you bring up Kain, SF is not in the same boat at all, and we all know it.)

Here is what I do know: T7 has been VERY competitive. It has pushed all three servers to grow in tactics and numbers. GoM has built an alliance which has been surprisingly successful, and I know that HoD and DH have been learning and growing as well. Now all of our tactics and strats work for a while, but then the other team catches on and comes up with counters. SF may not know these strats or the counters, instead they will probably be used to numbers winning the day.

So, when SF comes back up to T7, they will not encounter what they saw before. Even if SF comes here with superior numbers (which would surprise me), they will be in for a shock. Stomping on underpopulated servers will not prepare them for T7.

Of course I could be wrong, and we will all see soon enough.

However, don’t assume that HoD will be weaker than SF. HoD has been doing nothing but improving since settling in at T7. Also don’t assume that DH and GoM can’t handle SF. DH has numbers and tactics, and GoM thrives while outnumbered.

Labarge.1439:

The problems are two-fold:

1. ET and FC do not have an appropriately matched third opponent, and more importantly:

2. ET/FC’s low ratings cause an excessive dragging effect on SF (or any other server eventually in SF’s current situation) which makes it very difficult for overqualified servers to get out of T8 when they are forced to fill that open slot.

The 2nd problem is the one that I think can be more easily dealt with, as it is caused primarily by how ratings are calculated. Problem #1 is not a simple fix, as you correctly point out. However, not being simple doesn’t invalidate it as a problem, and at the very least something could be done to help alleviate problem #2.

I completely agree with your first point. This is the essence of the problem, and not just in T8. WvW (on NA) requires 8 perfectly matched sets of 3 servers each. This is simply not the case.

I’m not sure about your second point. The problem is a meta-game assumption by the developers (that there should be three evenly matched servers for every tier). If that were actually true, the algorithm would work just fine. Since the assumption is false, the algorithm does not work. This is not due to a problem with the algorithm, but a problem with the design of WvW.

The rating system is the runny nose, the server imbalance is the virus. We can try to treat the runny nose, by taking a decongestant, but that is a temporary solution. We need to cure the virus.

Labarge.1439:

Second, do more to increase mobility to low-activity servers. Don’t make permanent changes, instead the occasional “transfer sale” to try to boost their populations. This would, in a controlled fashion, bring up servers like ET and FC so that they are not such a “step below the rest.” It’s a more constructive solution than trying to doom a third server to match their activity levels.

This is the best solution for treating the virus: Manual WvW population grooming. Anet keeps hoping that the players will do this for themselves, but that will not happen. They cannot design an algorithm for it either, it wont work well, and people will learn to exploit it.

They cannot automate this task or leave it to the players, but an employee could do it well. Anet should already have someone keeping track of the state of WvW (if not, they need to get someone for this anyway). Give this person access to transfer magic.

It could go something like this. The Anet WvW GM puts up a first come first serve contract, allowing one guild of X size from a winning server to transfer to a losing one. The first guild that signs up with enough people gets the transfer. Once the contract infrastructure gets established, the GM can quickly and easily move the population around.

So Anet, if you take anything from this thread, take Labarge’s idea: Manual WvW Population Grooming.

Prosecutor.1457:

Shout out to the guilds RH and Rise last night.. You guys are tough as kitten. Great battles all around last night in DH BL. It was fun fighting that bottom mid island.

Agreed, that battle was quite fun, at least for the part I was in. I think most of my guild [ASH] had to sign off earlier in the evening. I have a lot of respect for you guys, especially in [SE]. Every time the [SE] zerg showed up, we knew we were in for a tough fight.

We started playing a game called “Lets see how many DH show up to stop us this time.” The outmanned buff kicked in a few times, and I think our record was about 40-50 DH, but you would know better than I. Nevertheless, you guys always stopped us, but I like to think we made you work for it.

@MasterDeluxe

I agree with you. Breakout events are not a solution to server imbalance. However, I don’t think that Anet ever intended for breakout events to fix server imbalance. I believe that their purpose was to change the meta-game, encouraging servers to fight for all four maps instead of only two.

I think that this misconception (That breakout events are for balance) is why some people keep freaking out about “PvE” in WvW. They see the NPC as a bot designed to bring balance. I see the NPC as a strategic asset, like being able to treb Bay from the Garrison. It gives you an advantage in certain situations. They could have implemented in a different way so it wouldn’t “feel” like a bot, but the effect is exactly the same.

Edit: I was not pointing this at you Morningstar, you just happened to post what I was talking about while I was writing.

I think many people are still missing the point of the breakout event.

It was never intended that you could “own” a borderland and push the enemy out. Each team was meant to have an advantage in their borderland, but every borderland was important because each one had an orb. No one could afford to leave a borderland alone, because that meant you were forfeiting an orb.

The meta changed when the orbs where removed. Suddenly, it made more sense to just concentrate on home because you have an advantage there. Everyone became focused on locking out the enemy, and holding the home BL. You only had to worry about two zones, your BL, and EB. Generally, you would only attack someone’s BL to force them to commit more troops to defend it.

This was an unintended result of the removal of orbs. Breakout events are meant to fix this. There is always supposed to be a battle (spawn camping does not count) in every map, so they made it easier to get started.

Does this make it harder to defend your home borderland? Yes, it is supposed to. Instead of focusing on cleansing the enemy completely off your home map, go to their map and divide their forces. The meta-game was changed intentionally. The old meta-game is not supposed to work anymore. That is the point.

Sheadong.8217:

Nuh uh GoM, you ain’t gettin’ this tower. And neither are you NSP. Your field rams will not break out spirit. This is [ALS] tower. Not yours.

I believe the technical term for those are “shame rams.” GoM seems to have a fondness for them.

Just a simple, but annoying bug.

When the breakout even happens for Greenbriar, the catas at the side wall spawn backwards. I have seen this three times, but only thought to screen-cap it once.

That Commander Siegerazer is such a noob, lol.

Edit: And apparently this is just me falling for a troll. Oh well… You can see my folly quoted below.

Commander Niniyl here from GoM. I was in EB most of the night. Overall, my own server surprised me. We maintained numbers, we defended stuff, and generally we played better than we have in weeks. It is quite encouraging to see us learning. Lets keep it up!

It has been a fun battle. We didn’t see too much of AR, but we preferred it that way. We even launched several attacks to distract NSP so AR could regain its foothold, because we really needed NSP not to give us their undivided attention.

Wow did the reset suck. Not only we did lose all the defensive siege on our keep (and we had a ton because we knew NSP would come for us eventually). But then apparently NSP downloaded the patch way faster, because they had 40 people knocking down our doors before most of us had logged back in. Does the [OS] guild have some magic patch downloading voodoo I should know about? It looks like NSP flattened AR the same way too, (based solely on watching the map, I was not there). I don’t blame NSP for taking advantage of the situation, but stuff like this should not happen.

I fully expect us to end up in third, but if we keep fighting like this, GoM has a lot to be proud of.

OP, you nailed it. Using the formula of that Wikipedia page, it appears that the devs need to reduce the reward of “one side betrays” to the point where it is no longer more beneficial than “both sides cooperate.” If this is accomplished, then the three-way war should work as intended.

Commander Niniyl from GoM here. I had a great time fighting against you HoD guys tonight. You had great tactics out there, and I’m totally going to steal them for later matches. I wish we could have had great battles like this all week, washouts are no fun for either side.

/respect

DIMH.5362:

There’s a GoM engineer in the GoM Borderlands that will engage in a fight 1v1 with me and before losing, will log off. He/she’s done this 3 times in a row now, and it’s infuriating. Is there anything I can do about this?

Not much you can do, but this guy’s days are numbered. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/Coming-Soon-To-WvW

If you are lucky, this guy will not realize these changes for a while, and will kill himself repeatedly.

Kodiack.2783:

Just thought I would break up the finger pointing, QQing and trolling with some gems from another match-ups thread.

Viking Jorun.5413:

Hey guys, Ferrum Blacktide here, a commander from GoM. You guys losing is not a result of outnumbering, cheating, or hacking. The commanders of GoM have been planning our comeback for the past two weeks, so thank you all for being a part of it. It really means a lot to me that so many of you guys are still being good sports about it.

PS: GoM finally learned to defend.

…

Overworld.9613:

…So yeah, we need to share and talk more, I think we can totally take AR and BP and any other server if we all knew what we were doing.

Don’t forget to reference the substantial number of people from GoM who posted in disagreement with this: Context is everything.

This really needs a sticky. People need to prepare!

Habib Loew,

Thank you so much for the great news. I’m very excited about these changes. Please pass along our thanks to the entire dev crew.

While we had great fun with our guild tonic event, we must give credit to these guys for the idea.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/pvp/wuvwuv/World-vs-World-vs-Moose

If you haven’t seen their video yet, you really should.

Also, we were using transformation tonics. That is why we all looked the same. It was also why the so called “bots” didn’t attack you, no skills while tranformed.

So to sum up: tonics + /dance *

GoM player here.

I applaud my server’s attempt at organizing, but there is still a long way to go. We were actually less organized for quite a while (commanders ignoring assignments, arguing with each other, and quite a few stubborn noob commanders who thought that the blue icon made them smart). Meanwhile HoD had an awesome supply denial tactic going in EB which won them SM for a short time, and in all the confusion no one listened to our calls to defend supply lines.

GoM is a PvE server, so once we started winning, PvE players came out in droves. We had numbers, we did not have tactics. We have absolutely no right to brag. We should be ashamed that HoG was able to push us out of SM, not bragging.

This is not to say that GoM is not improving. I believe that GoM has a lot of potential, and that we are still a work-in-progress. Don’t give up on GoM, but also don’t get overconfident. We still need to learn coordination and train our players. We did not win this by skill.

Hats off to ET and HoG. We have been in your shoes frequently, and I respect you a lot for still fighting. HoG, your tactics were really great in your initial push for SM. And ET, you have this annoying habit of showing up at the worst possible time. You both have a lot to be proud of. I apologize for any GoM players who tell you otherwise.