Guild Wars 2

Rin.1046:

They say it’s not going to be a gear treadmill, but then say that they want to add content to bridge the gap between exotics and legendaries. Well, I’m not sure if I’m missing something here, but legendary gear is IDENTICAL, stat wise, to exotics. So what gap is being bridged here? The grind? The cost? I thought that was the whole point of cosmetic prestige items. To give those that want to progress further something extra to do. Why add more stats? They could just add more skins that require a great deal of effort to get. And as I said before, if they want a progression mechainc, then surely infusions would suffice?

The gap has nothing to do with stats, but the time investment from getting a exotic vs a Legendary. You can get your full set of Exotic armour in about 3 days after hitting level 80. Likely sooner if you knew what you were doing, solely through regular play. Legendaries on the other hand require a rather large time/resource investment. There is such a large gap inbetween. They are giving players something to work towards in the end game. I had all my exotic (minus jewellery, never bothered) before I even finished my personal story.

Dragonborn.1507:

tkalamba.2541:

Conner.4702:

tkalamba.2541:

Conner.4702:

JSmooth.7654:

There are 138 pages of this… So, I don’t know if this link has been posted or not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

Those of you who are worried about the stat increase should read this. I was very worried about it too. However, this response from Anet helped put me at ease.

Atryue
lvl 80 Guard on Anvil Rock

Don’t see how a post that contradicts itself would relieve worry.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

All this says is they will be adding new items… (as in, new flashy swords, rifles, pistols etc.) Right below it says no new tiers after this update… just new skins within the updated structure…. Thats not a treadmill in any way.

It is exactly that a treadmill. A treadmill is nothing but a constant stream of items for people to grind for.

Anet: People have gotten all the current items, time to put the new ones in…

By making them stronger than what is currently in game as well as having them needed to reach even better rewards in the dungeon makes this a gear treadmill

They always stated they will add new items. Even new weapon types that aren’t in the game yet. What are you going to do in inevitable expansions where they add new abilities and new races? Is that again a treadmill? Thats another thing they said they’d do.

The Ascended Items are not mandatory to progress in the game. You can still see all content, even the fractal dungeon without it. You can still compete in WvW, you don’t even need all exotics in WvW, that is a self imposed need. You can still compete easily without a full set, I do, and I dont have a single exotic piece of jewellery.

now you say, later not
cause when a player has more damage output than you, will be losing

Considering there is zero balance in WvW and there are plenty that already do have higher damage output, how is it any different than it is now? No 2 characters have identical stats. I can still kill warriors who are specced to power with my engi who is not.

WvW is about surviving, not damage output. Traits play just as much of a role in stats as gear, and everyone one is traited differently. There will always be someone with higher damage output. It won’t make a lick of a difference.

MajorMelchett.6042:

What i’m wondering is will the stats/standard upgrade being included carry over to all remaining Ascended pieces.

What i mean is – in the preview pic we see that the usual stats gem (opal jewel) is included in the main stats and the standard slot is then turned into an infusion slot, will this carry over to every other kind of “Ascended” item as and when they come out.

Think about it, Ascended rings come with a fixed set of extra stats from a fixed jewel, so will Ascended armor items come with a fixed set of runes, & will Ascended weapons come with a fixed sigil?.
-
This would still be bad IMO (as i don’t agree with the new level being added at all), but it wouldn’t be as bad – this would mean Exotics would still have a place beside (not behind) Ascended items as with Exotics you’d have slightly lower stats BUT more customization in how you put them together and with Ascended items you’d have slightly higher stats but no customization at all.

So an Ascended knights armor would be fixed and have only have 1 set of runes that can’t be changed ever (included as standard), yet Exotic knights armor has a choice of any set of Exotic runes (like it is now). Same goes for Ascended weapons, a knights weapon would have say only a 7% extra damage sigil as standard (an increase over the optinal Exotic 5% version) YET the Exotic knights weapon can choose to have 3 stacks of might or any other sigil the player wants.

I wonder.

This is exactly what the implied advantage Exotic will have over Ascended is. Versatility and the ability to customize gear vs. Fixed stats that cannot be changed.

stof.9341:

tkalamba.2541:

You wont need to worry, there are benefits and disadvantages to Ascended gear. They cannot be custom tailored to your build as they cannot be upgraded which means no sigils or runes in armour or weapons of Ascended quality. Exactly the same as unique weapons in Gw1

You haven’t seen a single ascended armor or weapon yet. What makes you think that when ArenaNet upgrades current legendaries people own to ascended and infusable status, they’d lose their sigil on the spot? Now talk about having people complain.

Because Legendaries are not Ascended? They never said Legendaries will be infusable…. All they said was that Legendaries will have the same base stats…..

Urxx.6840:

tkalamba.2541:

Drunken Mad King.8193:

The point that they have to “BOOST” legendary weapons to a new stat level simply implies a new tier. The entire point was that exotic was the threshold. The fact that they are boosting the stats to one level of gear above exotics betrays the game.

They never said Exotic would be the final tier

Yes they did. They even underlined how legendaries weren’t any more powerful than exotics, just prettier.

Nothing i’ve seen says they werent planning anything new. All I’ve seen specifically stated that Legendary will always be = to the most powerful. That hasn’t changed. Just Exotic is no longer the best.

Ascended gear doesn’t even offer the same proportional increase that Rare – Exotic does. You can’t upgrade it aside from an infusion which adds no stat increase. It’s not even that useful to alot of custom tailored builds.

Anela.3867:

I haven’t even finished getting my exotic gear. My family and I chose this game because it was supposed to be casual. If it does become a gear grind, it will be more work than it’s worth to us.

I have spent a LOT of money in the cash shop because I am such a casual player and don’t have time to grind for gold. I won’t spend anymore if I have to keep doing it just to keep up.

You wont need to worry, there are benefits and disadvantages to Ascended gear. They cannot be custom tailored to your build as they cannot be upgraded which means no sigils or runes in armour or weapons of Ascended quality. Exactly the same as unique weapons in Gw1

Dragonborn.1507:

Now they boost the stats make more undesired for legendaries player in to a NEED

they try milk more gold from us, “you dont have better stat, see how you survive in the up coming dungeon.”

that mean their so called 5% population will get legendary player will become the most rich player among all

I bet the precursor will be 800g each so do the lodestone

Ascended will technically be the same as Legendary… so they will not be a need

Conner.4702:

tkalamba.2541:

Conner.4702:

JSmooth.7654:

There are 138 pages of this… So, I don’t know if this link has been posted or not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

Those of you who are worried about the stat increase should read this. I was very worried about it too. However, this response from Anet helped put me at ease.

Atryue
lvl 80 Guard on Anvil Rock

Don’t see how a post that contradicts itself would relieve worry.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

All this says is they will be adding new items… (as in, new flashy swords, rifles, pistols etc.) Right below it says no new tiers after this update… just new skins within the updated structure…. Thats not a treadmill in any way.

It is exactly that a treadmill. A treadmill is nothing but a constant stream of items for people to grind for.

Anet: People have gotten all the current items, time to put the new ones in…

By making them stronger than what is currently in game as well as having them needed to reach even better rewards in the dungeon makes this a gear treadmill

They always stated they will add new items. Even new weapon types that aren’t in the game yet. What are you going to do in inevitable expansions where they add new abilities and new races? Is that again a treadmill? Thats another thing they said they’d do.

The Ascended Items are not mandatory to progress in the game. You can still see all content, even the fractal dungeon without it. You can still compete in WvW, you don’t even need all exotics in WvW, that is a self imposed need. You can still compete easily without a full set, I do, and I dont have a single exotic piece of jewellery.

Drunken Mad King.8193:

The point that they have to “BOOST” legendary weapons to a new stat level simply implies a new tier. The entire point was that exotic was the threshold. The fact that they are boosting the stats to one level of gear above exotics betrays the game.

They never said Exotic would be the final tier

Lothair.8942:

tkalamba.2541:

Snerf.1650:

While I appreciate a response, what I don’t understand is why he feels that there is a stat gap between exotic and legendary that needs bridging.

There is no stat gap at all, let alone one that needs bridging.

There is an effort gap, but as long as the only difference is a skin and “prestige” there is no issue.

It’s only by instituting a stat gap with this update that there would ever be a need to bridge it.

What I’m reading by the dev response, is a solution to a problem that only exists by implementing this solution…. They are in essence creating the problem, then implementing a half-fix simultaneously.

Does that seem odd to anyone else?

I think you’re missing the point. It’s not a stat gap they are referring to. It’s the gap between earning exotics, which is incredibly easy to do (I got my full set of armour, and my weapons in less than 3 days after hitting 80) and getting a Legendary (which most players aren’t even close to acquiring)

Ascended Items fill the gap in item acquisition between Legendary and Exotic. It’s not stats they are talking about.

You still don’t get it – they are adding more powerful armor & weapons – that and only that is true (creating a gear treadmill).

They are buffing legendary to be on the same level of ascended moving forward. Legendary was just a cosmetic look and that’s about it. It’s not meant to be something the general population obtain (hence: Legendary).

A gear treadmill generally prevents one from progressing in content, and adds a significant advantage over existing gear. The fact you cannot upgrade this new gear, which is disadvantageous, and the fact that it is coming in between existing tiers is not the same as adding new weapons that are +100 power over existing gear, and you can’t do everything due to lacking this new gear. I can still run the Fractal dungeon, even without Agony protection for quite a while, I can still play WvW. I can still grind Orr, I can still explore, I can still do jumping puzzles and I can still remain competitive in sPvP. Sure, they are upgrading the stats of Legendaries, which may I add, were more powerful than Exotics in beta. It’s still not the same as what we have traditionally seen as a gear treadmill in past games.

There are many exotics I’d prefer over using the new Ascended gear specifically due to the fact I can pick and choose what upgrades I use. The precedent being set here with Ascended specifcally shows I cannot upgrade the gear, which means future armour and weapons will not be able to use Sigils and Runes. So even with built in stat upgrades, the bonuses usually awarded based on Runes and Sigils will likely not be included. This in turn means that Exotic gear will still be widely used, and will still be needed therefore not negating its effectiveness. You will only ever really need the Agony protection if you plan on running the dungeon constantly. What if I’m using a more balanced build, rather than maxing out a possible pair of stats? Items like a Tri-Forge pendant (An item that already has set a precedent of being imbalanced compared to comparable items) will benefit balanced builds over min/max builds. Considering my overall stats barely make a difference in WvW (which will 80% devolve in mass warfare, where individual stats mean nothing) Gear plays a less important role than many players emphasize.

and before anyone mentions the other Infusions (offensive and whatnot) the current Infusion only provides a benefit of protection from one condition in a dungeon. It can probably be safe to say the others will act in a similar nature, offensive allow us to kill particularly buffed NPC’s in a new dungeon or whatnot. The infusions do not provide the benefits of stat increases, or other bonuses commonly found in upgrade slots. And whos to say they wont add additional upgrades to further make Ascended gear nothing more than optional?

Conner.4702:

JSmooth.7654:

There are 138 pages of this… So, I don’t know if this link has been posted or not.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/A-message-from-our-Studio-Design-Director-Chris-Whiteside/first#post721451

Those of you who are worried about the stat increase should read this. I was very worried about it too. However, this response from Anet helped put me at ease.

Atryue
lvl 80 Guard on Anvil Rock

Don’t see how a post that contradicts itself would relieve worry.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

All this says is they will be adding new items… (as in, new flashy swords, rifles, pistols etc.) Right below it says no new tiers after this update… just new skins within the updated structure…. Thats not a treadmill in any way.

Snerf.1650:

While I appreciate a response, what I don’t understand is why he feels that there is a stat gap between exotic and legendary that needs bridging.

There is no stat gap at all, let alone one that needs bridging.

There is an effort gap, but as long as the only difference is a skin and “prestige” there is no issue.

It’s only by instituting a stat gap with this update that there would ever be a need to bridge it.

What I’m reading by the dev response, is a solution to a problem that only exists by implementing this solution…. They are in essence creating the problem, then implementing a half-fix simultaneously.

Does that seem odd to anyone else?

I think you’re missing the point. It’s not a stat gap they are referring to. It’s the gap between earning exotics, which is incredibly easy to do (I got my full set of armour, and my weapons in less than 3 days after hitting 80) and getting a Legendary (which most players aren’t even close to acquiring)

Ascended Items fill the gap in item acquisition between Legendary and Exotic. It’s not stats they are talking about.

ChairGraveyard.2967:

MikeTsa.7396:

tkalamba.2541:

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

The idea they will add more tiers after this yes it’s a speculation but the fact is that they will add a new tier and gated content on the next patch, something that is out of line with what they’ve said about their game so far and why people are complaining

No it’s not speculation. It literally says it right on the blog post “This November update is only the beginning of our item progression initiative….”

It’s not “speculation” when it was put in plain English right on the blog post that there will be more of this added in the future, as part of an entire “initiative” dedicated to adding gear treadmill (er… “item progression”).

What they are saying is they will add additional items, like say Pendants, or helms…. Not entire new tiers.

Takato.4976:

alanis.6094:

Perhaps all infusions grant -8% to the stats that are on the item?

Then why not keep the stats the same as exotics ? =|

Infusions do not give stat bonuses, only resistance to Agony.

Derk.3189:

5 power for every item is huge. 7 of these and you permanently have 1 might over someone who doesn’t have it.

You can’t equip 7 rings though….

And even if you had +5 on armour, there are runes that add even more to a stat, and Ascended items cannot be upgraded.

Takato.4976:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

No one bothers to read posts in full, there was even a picture dear god.
But Ill post it here anyway since people read with their eyes closed.

/Hint, add up the stats and compare. You’ll see.

+5 to power and precision, an increase which is so small it wont have any real effect to anyones ability to play.

Omega.1473:

Yahti.9321:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

I think a lot of people are missing this…

THERE’S NOTHING TO MISS!!!

We don’t know how Infusions will work. The Infusions slots could very well include their own set of upgrades as well. We even know that there are categories : Offensive, Defensive and Omni which have their own tiering as per Murdock’s statement that Omni infusions will be tiered as “fine” quality.

How will those not make up for the lack of Runes? If Exotic = Ascendent without any slotting, then what happens when you slot Infusions? Unless these Infusions literally do nothing against non-Fractal enemies, then the gear is objectively better than Exotics. End of story.

They said Infusions only add resistance to Agony…..

MikeTsa.7396:

tkalamba.2541:

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

The idea they will add more tiers after this yes it’s a speculation but the fact is that they will add a new tier and gated content on the next patch, something that is out of line with what they’ve said about their game so far and why people are complaining

Having a dungeon that is accessible to everyone is not really gated content. It only becomes gated at which point you progress far enough to start encountering Agony.

You can still participate in the content to your hearts content. However, you just wont be able to keep goin in with the same group’s saved progress at a certain point. Considering its a never ending, randomly generated dungeon that is in no way mandatory or will effect the overall game, It does not qualify as traditional gated content. Odds are you will find your ascended item before you start running into the Agony aspect.

Altair.6109:

Can anyone confirm that you can’t use any runes on Ascend Armor (helm, chest, legging etc) ??

Considering that they aren’t being released with this patch, no, no one can confirm.

However, with the precedent set by the fact that the items we do know about wont be able to be upgraded, one would assume that the armour will lack upgrade slots for Runes aswell.

MikeTsa.7396:

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

Most of what you just said is just speculation, we have not seen or heard anything about ascended armor, I could just asume that it will be like an exotic with better stats plus infusions plus the ability to put runes, speculation, we don’t know. What we do know is that ascendant rings have better stats than an exotic with a gem and changing gems on accessories is not that a big deal, if you want different stats just get different accessories.

And so is the idea that they will start adding more tiers in the future and that all future content will be gated.

Arkham Creed.7358:

After reading the new blog, and holding my tongue on the subject until it was released, I have come a conclusion; I’m okay with this. There is one very important reason why; no upgrade slots.

You’re basically trading versatility for protection from a dungeon specific mechanic and a slight boost in base power. If you can’t add jewels to these things, or I’m assuming runes and sigils once they add armor and weapons, then the slightly higher base stats are justified. Think about that; you can’t put runes in your armor. If that was the case you’d want those base stats to be a little bit higher, so this is a pretty logical step. It also means that you won’t see a very high demand for ascended items outside of that dungeon. After all would you rather have armor with three percent higher stats or a full set of runes suited to your playstyle?

That’s the real comparison we need to make here; is ascended gear without upgrades better than exotic gear WITH full upgrades? Because that ascended gear isn’t going to have upgrade slots.

People will end up ignoring the rationale behind this post.

I fully agree with what you said, people will opt for the versatility of Exotic gear over Ascended gear solely because it will allow for custom tailored stats. If people want to talk precedents, which seems to be the most common argument here. Then they just set a precedent for Ascended armour and weapons to not have upgrade slots either aside from an infusion slot. This will in turn mean that weapons with the upgrade slots will still be preferred by alot of players solely due to the ability to customize their playstyle. Besides, Having Runed gear will completely offset any slight stat benefit Ascended gear even offers.

Fungalfoot.7213:

We WoW now.

Seriously, anet, remove the tiers and go back to what worked in Guild Wars. No point in even coming into WvWvW unless you’re 80 with full ascended. You messed up by trying to cater to raiders when the vast majority of your population has zero interest in raiding.

GW2 isn’t perfect but it does have its own identity in an overcrowded genre. With every change like this it just takes one more step towards being another WoW clone. I implore you, don’t let that happen. You’re better than that.

I dont have issues WvWvW and I’m not running full Exotics? So what difference will the slight stat increases really make?

Zero Tolerance.1539:

tkalamba.2541:

WvW is all about the number of players. You’re individual stats don’t mean as much as you think they do. I am competitive in WvW. Have been from the get go, and levelled my characters in WvW. In the end, the +5 stats from a handful of items won’t equate to making you unstoppable. Even if you get Full Ascended gear, you still won’t benefit much. The increases in your overall pool of stats is pretty small. Even with +80 vit…. thats only 800 HP, most characters already do more than that in a single hit in WvW. Throw in conditions, crits, and the overall number of individual players, and that 800 HP means nothing at all.

So you are a competitive WvW player but you run rares on your char, right? And you never quite made it with less than 800hp left? Oh wait, what do you mean by competitive WvW player, you do puzzles 1/day, yeah?

the 800 HP value is based on the +80 vitality you’d get over an exotic set wearing Ascended Gear. My Accesories are Rare. I also don’t walk around alone in WvW, I run with my guild, we cap points, we remain competitive, and we tend to do pretty well. I rarely do the puzzles, and know how WvW actually works.

Memento Mori.5217:

tkalamba.2541:

melchiz.7182:

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

Considering WvW ends up devolving into a game of number of players fielded in an area, its not difficult to do at all….. I still don’t have any Exotic Accessories, and hold my own no problem. I’ve leveled two characters in WvW no problem….

WvW is not a 1v1 scenario, it’s no SPvP and was never balanced….. Ascended Gear will make no difference whatsoever to it.

Infact, you can’t even customize Ascended gear to your playstyle, where as you can with Exotics through upgrade slots…. That’s more valuable to a WvW player.

Additionally, WvW is an entirely different beast as it doesn’t fully rely on individual stats. In the end it always breaks down into mobs of players fighting.

Ascended gear will barely have any effect whatsoever in WvW. It never was equal, and never will be.

There are items already in game that are more useful anyways, and its not like every WvW player has them. Take a look at the Tri-Forge Pendant.

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

Doesn’t this item alone already effect game balance? It provides bonuses to all stats and has a slot for upgrades… where the complaints for it?

Cause this pendant isn’t really worth, you can’t max any build with that… Clearly you still don’t know how this game works. It’s like divinity runes, jack of all trade master of nothing, used only for take some belace but a lot build are based on max burst, bunker or condition where this thrinket is almost useless.

Most build focusing on only one stat like max damage tend to be flawed. WvW is all about outlasting another player, through use of skills, stats and traits. That Pendant sets a precedent that no item does, as it allows for a balanced boost in skills that can be used to supplement multiple builds. In the end, I’m not sacrificing much in the way of stats to use something like this item and can still last long in WvW. This isn’t a game like WoW where I have to min/max my build to be effective.

Nephaerius.9103:

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

It is mandatory. Hang onto your Exotics and don’t run dungeons you don’t care about to get Ascended gear. Get stomped in WvWvW and told to get good scrub by some kid who has some more stat points than you. So maybe for you it’s not mandatory, but for any competitive person it sure is.

WvW is all about the number of players. You’re individual stats don’t mean as much as you think they do. I am competitive in WvW. Have been from the get go, and levelled my characters in WvW. In the end, the +5 stats from a handful of items won’t equate to making you unstoppable. Even if you get Full Ascended gear, you still won’t benefit much. The increases in your overall pool of stats is pretty small. Even with +80 vit…. thats only 800 HP, most characters already do more than that in a single hit in WvW. Throw in conditions, crits, and the overall number of individual players, and that 800 HP means nothing at all.

rikuharada.3152:

tkalamba.2541:

melchiz.7182:

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

Considering WvW ends up devolving into a game of number of players fielded in an area, its not difficult to do at all….. I still don’t have any Exotic Accessories, and hold my own no problem. I’ve leveled two characters in WvW no problem….

WvW is not a 1v1 scenario, it’s no SPvP and was never balanced….. Ascended Gear will make no difference whatsoever to it.

Infact, you can’t even customize Ascended gear to your playstyle, where as you can with Exotics through upgrade slots…. That’s more valuable to a WvW player.

Additionally, WvW is an entirely different beast as it doesn’t fully rely on individual stats. In the end it always breaks down into mobs of players fighting.

Ascended gear will barely have any effect whatsoever in WvW. It never was equal, and never will be.

There are items already in game that are more useful anyways, and its not like every WvW player has them. Take a look at the Tri-Forge Pendant.

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

Doesn’t this item alone already effect game balance? It provides bonuses to all stats and has a slot for upgrades… where the complaints for it?

That is just one pendant, we are talking about a whole separate tier on it own here, the different is huge.

This one item set its own precedent, and is no way equal to any other items in the game…. it already outweighs the benefits from the item in the new tier we’ve already seen…. and it can be upgraded…. This new tier cannot….

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

tkalamba.2541:

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Bubbles.2507:
From GW2 manifesto
“Because, like Guild Wars before it, GW2 doesn’t fall into the traps of traditional MMORPGs. It doesn’t suck your life away and force you onto a grinding treadmill; it doesn’t make you spend hours preparing to have fun rather than just having fun;”

Adding new layers of gear with stats required to complete the hardest parts of new instances is not optional. The new gear and condition is the definition of a grinding treadmill.

Anet Manifesto = Lie’s

Is the Dungeon mandatory? Considering its randomized and never ends….. no its not. It’s 100% optional. You can’t even actually finish it… it doesn’t end…. at all… just keep going until its too hard and you give up.

The Agony only kicks in after you run the dungeon instances a few times. You can probably see all 9 areas without ever having to worry. I fail to see how you absolutely 100% have to do this content.

melchiz.7182:

tkalamba.2541:

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

Nothing is “mandatory.” You can run around WvW in a set of blues. Have fun with that.

Considering WvW ends up devolving into a game of number of players fielded in an area, its not difficult to do at all….. I still don’t have any Exotic Accessories, and hold my own no problem. I’ve leveled two characters in WvW no problem….

WvW is not a 1v1 scenario, it’s no SPvP and was never balanced….. Ascended Gear will make no difference whatsoever to it.

Infact, you can’t even customize Ascended gear to your playstyle, where as you can with Exotics through upgrade slots…. That’s more valuable to a WvW player.

Additionally, WvW is an entirely different beast as it doesn’t fully rely on individual stats. In the end it always breaks down into mobs of players fighting.

Ascended gear will barely have any effect whatsoever in WvW. It never was equal, and never will be.

There are items already in game that are more useful anyways, and its not like every WvW player has them. Take a look at the Tri-Forge Pendant.

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

Doesn’t this item alone already effect game balance? It provides bonuses to all stats and has a slot for upgrades… where the complaints for it?

Shunsui Jiraiya.9103:

The Manifesto was a lie.

The whole company should be ashamed.

Considering the entire Manifesto was about options, and the new gear is not mandatory, there was no lie.

xarallei.4279:

Legendaries are NOT better than exotics. They are the same stat-wise as their exotic precursor weapons. Get your facts straight. And people are concerned because this is only the START to the treadmill. It will only get worse here on out. We need to take a stand NOW before it gets there.

Lack of a treadmill was a huge draw for many of us. And it was a core philosophy from Anet that they constantly brought up. Now they are going back on that.

Straight from Anet:
http://www.arena.net/blog/is-it-fun-colin-johanson-on-how-arenanet-measures-success#more-8572
“Fun impacts loot collection. The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too.” – Colin Johanson

They still included items like the Tri-Forge Pendant from the get go…

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

This item alone already accessible from the get go and immediately provides better benefits than most items as it gives you ALL stats boosts. Didnt this item start its own precedent? How come no one ever complained? Sure, the base stats aren’t as high, but the fact that it benefits all the aspects of a character sure is an advantage. As far as I know, there aren’t any other items like it. How’s this one item equal to all the other accessories currently available?

So are people freaking out over the Tri-Forge Pendant?

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage
+ Upgrade slot

This item is already a more useful accessory as it benefits everything your character can do. It’s been there from the get go, no one seems to complain about it.

Waar Kijk Je Naar.8713:

Cyferwolf.1089:

Legendary weapons aren’t better than exotics if you actually check the stats on the wiki or the numerous other sites.

Also, the fear is that since the ring and back pieces they proposed are better and they have indicated they want to do more of this, a full set of ascended gear could provide a significant stat advantage over exotic gear, thus requiring a grind to get the new stuff. Now, if losing the rune slot and sigil slot on other stuff balances that out, and the infusions only help against certain enemies that’s not a big deal, but we don’t have any of those details yet. In their absence, people are raising their concern that Anet is going back on it’s ideals of not having a gear grind in GW2.

We do have information on that. Ascended weapons already have the upgrade slot built into them, so you still get those bonusses. Infact, the built-in upgrades are also slightly stronger than current upgrades.

The upgrade slot is solely for infusion, which in turn only works on Agony…. no stats bonuses at all. This sets a different precedent that people are overlooking if it is included with armour. No Runes with Ascended gear when it is released, which means no additional rune bonuses. This in turn negates any benefit Ascended armour would presumably have.

Now, this is where people will say how do you know they will do this?

Well, how do you know that they will further increase item stats and add more tiers? It’s all speculation that leads nowhere.

You want to start talking precedents? What about the precedent they started with flooding the markets with butter and chocolate, or changing costs of items since launch? How about the precedent of removing features of WvW (regardless of intentions to prevent hacking, they still have started a precedent). Anything, and everything they do to their game will create some sort of precedent.

Complaining about the “principle” of them changing the game is insanely pointless. Guess what, future content may and likely will raise a level cap. Something they have said before they would consider (I believe it was in an interview) Is everyone going to go up in arms over this?

You’re worried about coming back months down the road and being behind? It’s a dynamic game where changes happen. What on Earth are you going to do in the event the release new races, weapons, skills etc? Won’t you in turn be behind?

Guess what? Players can still faceroll in WvW with Exotics…. I can hold my own pretty decently without having a single Exotic Accessory… all level 80 Rare jewellery. Considering even then, WvW ends up turning into a game of tactics and numbers, individual player stats matter even less.

In the end, Exotics are much more flexible, you can tune your stats to your liking and build. Ascended gear will all be fixed stats, meaning it will insanely hard to tailor that gear to your build. It won’t negate the use of Exotics, and many players would likely stick with what they have already in order to fine tune their play styles.

Besides, don’t items like the Tri-Forge Pendant offer even better stat gains than what the Ascended item they have already shown provide?

+40 Power
+40 Precision
+40 Toughness
+40 Vitality
+5% Critical Damage
+40 Healing Power
+40 Condition Damage

has an upgrade slot to provide even further bonuses. Doesn’t this item alone set it’s own precedent? It’s already a much better item due to singular fact that it single handedly increases ALL stats.

krookie.6378:

tkalamba.2541:

I highly doubt it’s a whole set. They were always looking for cool ways to implement back armour, this is likely one of their answers. It will just be a variety of back pieces.

Did you read the article? Here’s a quote from it:

…While it remains to be seen exactly how many new items are being added in terms of new weapon or armor sets, we do know that a new quality level is being introduced: Ascended. This will be one step higher than exotic quality items…

Articles are written by 3rd parties.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

This link, which is an official source, although incomplete says nothing about these items being more powerful, specifically states Infusions are from dungeons (note the plural form) and shows an image of a ascended back piece on a character wearing starter armour. This + the fact the entire update revolves around the Karka tells me more than articles on random gaming sites that never are 100% accurate.

Angrec.6970:

krookie.6378:

Nathanael.4398:

My real opinion is, that the stats are not better in damage/healing/whatever but have the ability to penetrate through the karkas armor.

If that’s the case, I wouldn’t mind it at all. However, the wording in some of these articles implies that they have higher stats than exotics.

Still waiting on clarification from Anet.

Agreed, I would be comepltely cool with infusing them in a similar manner to gw1, but a new set would probably kill any desire for me to continue playing this game. And on the note of the articles http://www.guildwars2hub.com/features/previews/lost-shores-preview this one realllllyyy has me worried after reading it, anet really needs to put out a clarification soon.

I highly doubt it’s a whole set. They were always looking for cool ways to implement back armour, this is likely one of their answers. It will just be a variety of back pieces.

bcbully.7289:

LadyRhonwyn.2501:

Darknass.1903:

I believe I read somewhere that the gear will only be better within the dungeon itself and function as a normal piece of gear outside of the dungeon. (if I can find the post I will edit this)

That’s even worse. LFG for dungeon, must have ascended armor…

LF1M must have 4/6 Ascended

It wont be a complete set of armour, likely back pieces, a few accesories, and maybe a hat.

zippo burntfur.9307:

So ascended armor will have an infusion slot, and the ascended armor sound’s like it for specifically fighting the karka. Did the Mursaat devolve into the karka? And if so, is this the really cool idea’s they have for the mursaat in GW2?

Probably not the same as the Mursaat, but the concept will remain. Instead of preventing you from being one-shot, it actually allows for you to hurt them.

Crater.1625:

tkalamba.2541:

Ascended likely just produces a PVE bonus against a particular enemy.. in this case the Karka…. the enemy the entire update is based around.

Okay, let me put some numbers on it, using Guild Wars 1 as the model:

In GW1, max-power weapon inscriptions generally came in two varieties: Those that increased your damage by 15%, and had a positive conditional (bonus only applies if your health is above 50%, if you’re enchanted, etc), and those that increased your damage by 20%, and had a negative conditional (bonus only applies if your health is below 50%, or if you’re suffering from a hex or condition, etc).

There were also PvE-only, enemy-specific inscriptions (… Of Charrslaying, Demonslaying, Ogreslaying, etc). These gave 20% bonuses to damage, if and only if you were fighting the specific type of enemy for that particular inscription.

If that is what Ascended Equipment and Infusions do – if they offer an effective 5% increase in effectiveness versus a specific type of enemy, while inflicting an effective 15% penalty against every other kind of enemy – then there is no problem with them.

If they offer any benefit beyond that, they should have no place in Guild Wars 2.

Ascended gear with Infusions in GW1 were required to actually combat the Mursaat or get killed in practically one hit.

Crater.1625:

Bruno Sardine.2907:

Yeah no offense to players that bought stuff… but in an ever evolving game that might have an expansion, did you really think the items you had would be the best forever? That’s like buying an Audi or whatever and thinking they’re never coming out with a better model.

The max-stat weapons that I found in Guild Wars 1 on April 25, 2005, during the early-access headstart event, before the game even technically officially launched, are still equipped on my characters on November 12, 2012, and are still exactly as powerful as the absolute best equipment that you can get in the game, after seven and a half years, and three expansions.

So yes, I thought that having Exotic weapons in Guild Wars 2 would be ‘safe’ from gear inflation, less than three months later.

Ascended likely just produces a PVE bonus against a particular enemy.. in this case the Karka…. the enemy the entire update is based around.

Draknar.5748:

Sad to say but I’m with everyone else in that I would likely leave the game for good if they start releasing better stat gear.

I like the idea of being able to hit max stat, take a break for a while, and then come back and not have to replace all of my gear because now I’m geared like a loser. I quit WoW because of that nonsense. Nothing like spending months to get a set of armor only to be considered POS three months later. What the heck is the point!

Sounds like this new ascended set is yet another “tier” of armor. Boo I say. Boo!

Of course I will wait to see what it ACTUALLY is before making hasty decisions.

They are likely hats and back pieces only, not full sets of armour.

Jestunhi.7429:

tkalamba.2541:

And what if it was a PVE only increase, such as +5% bonus damage to Karka, and bypass their increased armour buff or something?

Then it will soon become a requirement for the content.

Soon enough you will only be invited to a group if you already have the gear. Pretty much how gear score works in WoW. It will be used to judge whether someone is “good enough” to join.

It was required in GW1, only way to progress against the Mursaat was to be ascended and infused. Ascended Items will likely be pretty easy to get, and infused items will be found in any dungeon. They will come in a small variety of backpieces likely.

ASB.4295:

---

New Ascended Gear & Infusions

Introducing Ascended items, artifacts of great power that can be improved by a special new type of upgrade called Infusions, which can be found in dungeons. Look for more information about Ascended gear soon!
*

>New Ascended Gear & Infusions
>&
They mention infusion and gear separately.

>Introducing Ascended items, artifacts of great power that can be improved by a special new type of upgrade called Infusions, which can be found in dungeons.

My opinion: New armor skin that is already infused + new items that let you infuse any armor.

The only question now is: What does infusion do, and does it give you a flat stat upgrade that makes you more powerful outside of TLS/SotM?

My guess is give you an advantage against the new enemy they are implementing. The entire update focuses on them.

Leiloni.7951:

biggs.4702:

So everyone’s fairly cool with legendary weapons being in the game, but introduce something similar for armor and yall poop yer pants?

How does that make any sense?

The whole idea sounds pretty cool to me. I just hope that new armor is smexy.

Legendaries aren’t better, they have the same stats as Exotics, they just have cool skins. That is exactly the kind of “progression” most of us want. We want to be able to get a set of Exotics and know that statistically we have the best the game has to offer, no more grind needed. And for those that do want to grind, they can grind cosmetic stuff and we don’t need to worry that we’re stuck behind the curve if we don’t.

This “ascended” gear has me very worried. If it has any power increase at all, no matter how small, that will be a gigantic deal. This game is built around the idea that there is no power creep/gear grind at all. Most of us came here on that very promise. Between the poor handling of events and now this possible new set of gear, I’m not too happy. Please just make it some cosmetic set. I hope it’s not what it sounds like.

And what if it was a PVE only increase, such as +5% bonus damage to Karka, and bypass their increased armour buff or something?

phooka.4295:

MrLee.6892:

Did you read the post that they will be coming out with a blog post about it today.
And no it’s not the “ONLY” thing you can do, you can be patient and wait and see what is going to happen. THEN make your decision.

Jumping the gun on something we all know very little about is silly.

Blogpost is out and has close to zero information. Thanks for nothing, Anet. Still, buffed.de points to an interview with an official who said they introduced teirs so players have someting to work for (I’m paraphrasing). You can keep your head firmly in the sand. I’m just sad they killed the single most appealing aspect of the game. I’ll still play until another game tries to truly ditch teired gear and then hope they will stick to it. But I’m not investing another Ero in this one.

Sigh. It was a fun half year while it lasted.

The blog post you are referring too is kinda old… they have one explaining Ascended items specifically still to come.

Moon.7310:

Can’t believe you are really doing this. You are downgrading an amazing game to just another MMO where you have to run after new maximum gear every few months. Really don’t see why we need that now, and just because some players want it, does not mean all players want it. And I always believed GW1 was a succesfull game and it worked for seven years now without stupid changes to maximum gear.
You are just reducing the fun in playing and making it into a gear grind.

Its going to be exactly like in GW1. The Ascended gear was required to survive against the Mursaat. Now it is required to kill the karka… the enemy the new content revolves around… watch, the blog post will likely say this.

Mimaktorn.4769:

what’s the point of adding in a new tier of gear? more grind? seriously why would you do this? i chose to play this game to avoid the stats grinding i might just quit after this.

To fight the “nigh-invincible” Karka? there’s your point… makes you powerful against the new enemy that doesn’t die easily otherwise.

alcopaul.2156:

better stats is better. even if it is a .01% increase, that still is the maxed armor now. your exotics are subpar now. everybody wants to max stuff. and for those who invested lots of gold/real cash in exotic armors for their character, this better stat ascended is bad news, unless there’s a way for them to convert their maxed exotics to ascended.

Nothing anywhere even mentions an increase in stats. More powerful can simply mean they make you more powerful against a particular mob… like the Karka… the new enemy the entire content update revolves around… which are invincible and players need to find a way to kill… through likely infused Ascended gear….

Velron.3729:

Just found out about this.

Wow.

So much for no gear treadmill. Incoming next tier of crap, less than 2.5 months in to game. How long till t3?

You promised no gear treadmill. You’ve just introduced one, thanks.

Read this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

not the same as what those press releases say. Seems more like a back piece or accessory required to kill the Karka. The entire content release revolves around finding a way to kill them. Similar to how Ascended gear was required to kill the Mursaat.

Read this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

Not a third party site. It makes it sound like Ascended gear revolves around the Karka… It says nothing about it being more powerful. Just says Infusions are gained through dungeons, plural, not singular, so any dungeon.

krookie.6378:

tkalamba.2541:

Ayane Hajinmon.9165:

“infusions”…if anything like gw1 i wouldnt mind it…its just a buff to fight certain monster and everyone in gw1 pretty much have infuse armor since its part of story line
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Infusion

AKA how to kill the new Karka enemy that the article already states can’t be normally killed and players will need to find out how…

That doesn’t make sense though. Karka are apparently invincible until a certain criteria is met by the player. If Infused armor can only be acquired through the new dungeon where you fight Karka… How do you fight Karka in tha dungeon?

Reading this https://www.guildwars2.com/en/the-game/releases/november-2012/

makes it sound like there’s more than one way to get the Ascended loot. Additionally, I don’t seem to see anywhere that says the Karka are in the dungeon. They seem to roam the Lost Shore, and even invade Lions Arch…

By the looks of it, Infusions are the only thing that are exclusive to dungeons.

Infact, the entire schedule of the event revolves around the Karka. They are the major emphasis of this content. It sounds to me Ascended gear is a story element, and obtaining it may not too difficult. The harder part will be the infusions.

Ayane Hajinmon.9165:

“infusions”…if anything like gw1 i wouldnt mind it…its just a buff to fight certain monster and everyone in gw1 pretty much have infuse armor since its part of story line
http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Infusion

AKA how to kill the new Karka enemy that the article already states can’t be normally killed and players will need to find out how…